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(NPR)   American teens used to look forward to car ownership as the ultimate ticket to freedom, and getting laid. Now, they're too damn lazy get a job to buy some wheels, and getting a ride to GameStop in mom's minivan is just fine, even if they're 29   (npr.org) divider line 330
    More: Sad, Gamestop, Americans, political freedom, Woodward Dream Cruise, car culture, cars in america, damn, owners  
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10299 clicks; posted to Main » on 19 Aug 2013 at 12:25 AM (49 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-08-19 05:25:07 AM
i.imgur.com

We're making the next generation pay money they don't have for degrees they don't need for jobs that won't exist.

Like the Wall St Crash; things are slowly building to a head, and when it breaks, things will become very bad for EVERYONE, very quickly, without warning.  And it will be unbprecedented, so no one will know what do do.  The standard of living will be rocked like it's never been before for millions.

Except for the mega-rich.  They will weather the storm just fine.
 
2013-08-19 05:28:07 AM

Doc Daneeka: cynicalminion: Jacobin: Voodoo_Stu: I've been thinking about going carless, but I have to ask any one who has:  How the heck do you get groceries home?

Just push them home in the shopping cart

you know that's theft, right?

Lots of car-less urbanites own their own collapsible carts for the express purpose of grocery shopping.

that

is YOUR cart. if you get a wheeled contraption (potentially attached to your bike) you can easily transport things.

loading up a shopping cart and wheeling it home, however, is not okay.
 
2013-08-19 05:35:50 AM

cynicalminion: Doc Daneeka: cynicalminion: Jacobin: Voodoo_Stu: I've been thinking about going carless, but I have to ask any one who has:  How the heck do you get groceries home?

Just push them home in the shopping cart

you know that's theft, right?

Lots of car-less urbanites own their own collapsible carts for the express purpose of grocery shopping.

that is YOUR cart. if you get a wheeled contraption (potentially attached to your bike) you can easily transport things.

loading up a shopping cart and wheeling it home, however, is not okay.


Of course it isn't. Whoever said that it was?

The original poster who recommended using a cart to take groceries home was offering good, sound advice for urbanites. I didn't read it as advocating theft.
 
2013-08-19 05:53:48 AM
Another reason often cited is money. Maynard says the average cost of a new car is about $30,000, before factoring in car insurance. Add in the high price of gas in some places and owning a car is simply too expensive for a young person.

That's it in a nutshell.

My first fulltime job paid me $1.92 an hour. Lower middle class wages were a little over $6000 a year. Car insurance was not mandatory and gas was between $0.20 and $0.25 a gallon. In 1971 I bought a 1967 Pontiac GTO for $1500. I put chrome rims on it for under $200. I had it professionally painted a rich metallic blue for $400. I bought a used set of side, under the door pipes for $50.

My car insurance cost me $15 a month.

With a $100 set of mainly used tools, I could rebuild the engine. I could set the timing myself, change the brakes and install an AM/FM stereo system. My tag was less than half what it cost today.

Parts came from local salvage yards and the engine was a massive, over powered monster of a V-8 that got 8 mpg.

I drive a Buick LeSaber now and wnated to get it's color changed. A basic paint jobs costs over $1000. I can't work on the engine because of the chips in it. Mechanics have to with hideously expensive machines and charge me $50 an hour.

It had heavy, chrome bumpers. I drove a car with plastic bumpers and someone tapped me and cracked the 'bumper cover'. It cost me an astounding $375 to get it fixed. I drive a van and got hit and wrecked a headlight. The whole assembly was plastic. It cost $250 just to get the assembly, without the bulb.

Traffic tickets have tripled over the years. Car prices have soared beyond what my home cost.

The cost of getting even a used car, working on it and customizing the thing has become obscenely expensive. Gas has popped up to $4.00 a gallon. Tires quadrupled in price -- even recaps.

I used to put Freon in the a/c system at $1.00 a can. Now, I pay $4.00 a can. Sometimes $5.00.

Plus, traffic is bad. Real bad, ever since the car dealers convinced folks to buy cars for everyone in the family except the dog.

I can understand why folks are slowing down on buying cars. Besides, years ago, car dealers made a huge thing about buying a new car every year. Sheer greed and waste, since most of them wound up in the salvage and scrap yards in 5 years anyhow.
 
2013-08-19 06:04:47 AM
You can't Tweet and Drive.

You can't Tweet and Drive and Live.
 
2013-08-19 06:10:58 AM
At 41 years old, I've never bought a new car, and don't intend to. They're a waste of money. The closest I came was a 4 year old car from a used dealer. Someone else can take all the depreciation hit.

A bunch of people I know are like me - love/hate relationship. They like the freedom and convenience but hate the expense and all the stupid fussy driving laws.
 
2013-08-19 06:12:40 AM

GhostFish: So much vindictive spite aimed at the age groups with the least amount of money and power. Previous generations stripmined the opportunity out of this country, and now the kids left with the scraps get kicked around and spit on for not taking advantage of all the opportunities that don't exist anymore.


I have to say it's a sick thing, watching the baby boom generation, I knew they were selfish tw*ts, but watching them fark over their kids future, that's harsh.
 
2013-08-19 06:15:42 AM

Harry_Seldon: My first gasoline powered vehicles were all of the two wheel variety. I got a moped when I was 15. I bought a Honda 250 when I was 18, and have used some variety of 2 wheeled transport since then. Yes, I have a car, but it is a cheap one, and I rarely use is for more than 2000 miles a year.

Best transportation bang for the buck.

[image.motorcyclistonline.com image 799x499]


I've considered that as well - really, I've considered electric bikes for that purpose, but I insofar as I haven't looked into it, I expect they're not at all that effective, and beyond that they're going be mostly scooters rather than motorcycles. Although they might be efficient, it is also possible the electricity costs more than gas (haven't done the math). Also considered the opposite: basically a bicycle with a motor.

Just haven't done the research. I get around fine with public transportation (small city and I don't live in the US), so while personal transportation might be more convenient, it is so much more convenient to justify the investment of time, effort and money.
 
2013-08-19 06:23:59 AM

Harry_Seldon: Quantum Apostrophe: It can't possibly the end of the cheap energy fiesta and people's priorities change as a consequence?

It is Obama's fault. The Clash for Clunkers program removed large numbers of perfectly good used vehicles from the market.


That's not backed up by actual facts. I won't bother showing you research because you don't care about that, but I can prove it easily by having bought a $1000 Ford Explorer last year for camping and to pull my little boat.

You are just old and think things should cost what they did when you were a kid.
 
2013-08-19 06:37:04 AM
From the article:  "I think people are looking at transportation now as 'I use my car when I need it, but if there are other cheaper, faster ways to get somewhere I'll use that as well.' "

Where do people live that has public transportation that's faster and cheaper than a car? I live near Portland, which is known for being bike and public transportation friendly, and it's not true here. I worked out the cost and time to drive versus taking the MAX to school. Driving: 30 min and ~$3.50 in gas. MAX: 2+ hours and $4.40 a ticket. Yeah... why wouldn't I drive? Even with insurance, maintenance, and parking, it's not worth it to take public transportation. I have no idea how people can stand to waste that much time out of their day just getting somewhere.

All of you guys that were able to buy an older beater for less than 500 bucks make me jealous. I recently bought a '95 Miata with a salvage title for almost three grand. Three grand for an 18 year old car that has been totaled! And it was a good deal. I can't imagine what kind of junk you would get for $500 nowadays. It's too bad. Having a car was my first real taste of freedom as a teen. No more begging your parents to drive you somewhere; you can just go where you want when you want. I feel bad for teens that never get to experience that.
 
2013-08-19 06:45:32 AM

ghare: Harry_Seldon: Quantum Apostrophe: It can't possibly the end of the cheap energy fiesta and people's priorities change as a consequence?

It is Obama's fault. The Clash for Clunkers program removed large numbers of perfectly good used vehicles from the market.

That's not backed up by actual facts. I won't bother showing you research because you don't care about that, but I can prove it easily by having bought a $1000 Ford Explorer last year for camping and to pull my little boat.

You are just old and think things should cost what they did when you were a kid.


Why wouldn't I be interested, supporters of the President  can criticize a lot program.
 
2013-08-19 06:47:44 AM

Harry_Seldon: ghare: Harry_Seldon: Quantum Apostrophe: It can't possibly the end of the cheap energy fiesta and people's priorities change as a consequence?

It is Obama's fault. The Clash for Clunkers program removed large numbers of perfectly good used vehicles from the market.

That's not backed up by actual facts. I won't bother showing you research because you don't care about that, but I can prove it easily by having bought a $1000 Ford Explorer last year for camping and to pull my little boat.

You are just old and think things should cost what they did when you were a kid.

Why wouldn't I be interested, supporters of the President  can criticize a lot program.


Oh, sorry, I just figured what with being wrong and all you were a teabagger. Sorry. It was a pretty safe bet.
 
2013-08-19 06:52:06 AM
theinfosphere.org
 
2013-08-19 06:58:20 AM

tomerson: Shouldn't you be on a balcony yelling at a Muppet.


Nice.
 
2013-08-19 06:59:09 AM
We need to aerosolize some testosterone and start spraying.
 
2013-08-19 07:04:09 AM
they're too damn lazy get a job to buy some wheels

In the 70s, a typical factory worker supporting a family could buy a brand new car and pay it off in one year.

Today, a typical white-collar worker in a double-income home supporting a family can buy a brand new car and pay it off in six years.

But, yeah, this has nothing to do with the destruction of the economy by 1%ers over the past 30 years.  It's that people are *lazy* nowadays. (rollseyes)
 
2013-08-19 07:13:48 AM

TomD9938: FTA : "My girlfriend drives me everywhere. That sounds sad, and 20 years ago I'd be considered pathetic, but it's almost normal now to be that way," says Mike Clubb, who is in his 20s.

"Almost" being the operative word.

This dude needs a car, he just chooses to mooch off his girlfriend.

At least she knows he needs her.


You say 'mooching off his girlfriend' as if it is a bad thing. Is that wrong? Should he not do that? I got to tell you, I have to plead ignorance because if anyone would have said that that kind of thing is frowned upon. I've go to tell you, I've been in a lot of relationships in my time and that kind of thing is pretty common.
 
2013-08-19 07:18:45 AM
I got a kick out of the headline.  When I was 27 I ran the local Gamestop, and my car was in the shop for almost two weeks getting a starter replaced (mid-90s Oldsmobiles are a royal PitA like that), so for those two weeks I had to either borrow or get a ride from my mom's minivan.

/this has been All Cool Stories, Bro Considered
 
2013-08-19 07:27:45 AM

Voodoo_Stu: I've been thinking about going carless, but I have to ask any one who has: How the heck do you get groceries home?


Get them delivered... But, that only works in certain locations... Living in some places pretty much requires you to have a car...
 
2013-08-19 07:34:56 AM
A few decades of trickle down will do that to a nation.
 
2013-08-19 07:40:36 AM

Lunakki: From the article:  "I think people are looking at transportation now as 'I use my car when I need it, but if there are other cheaper, faster ways to get somewhere I'll use that as well.' "

Where do people live that has public transportation that's faster and cheaper than a car?


In NYC, an unlimited MetroCard is about $110 per month, which is far cheaper than car payments + insurance + gas + maintenance + parking. And if you've ever seen NYC rush hour traffic, you'd know the subway is faster too.

Now, if you live outside the city and have to commute, that changes the equation a bit, but it may still work out cheaper to get a monthly pass for Metro-North/LIRR/NJ Transit, than to deal with the traffic, bridge tolls, and parking.
 
2013-08-19 07:42:16 AM
uh really? 29? i'm turning 28 this year and cars were/still are the ticket to freedom for myself and everybody i knew growing up

also couldn't the guy going to gamestop just download games?
 
2013-08-19 07:43:20 AM

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: As a 17 year old, we have to deal with a unique situation in American societal history that no previous generations had to contend with. We don't have the access to opportunities that our grandparents did, or the promise of high paying jobs out of high school, or the ability to get a higher education without taking out loans.


That would be true... if you were 17 in 1989. There's nothing you listed that didn't also apply to Generation X. There's a reason why grunge was invented when it was. Life sucks. It sucked before you came along and it'll suck long after you're dead. You, nor your generation, are special unique snowflakes. At least you don't have to deal with being drafted and blown up in a foreign land like the Greatest Generation and the less well connected Baby Boomers.
 
2013-08-19 07:45:33 AM

Revmachine21: 42 yo woman here, I am car free! I love it. No hassles with car salesmen, no hassles with car repair dudes, no hassles with fuel, no parking hassles, no hassles with the government for licensing and emissions, or insurance issues.  I budget one car rental weekend a month, and buy supplemental insurance from the car rental agency as I don't carry a policy on myself as a named non-owner driver.

Here are my tips and tricks for making it work:
* I use public transportation, purchasing a discounted pass from a college where I take 1 college course.
* I have a personal shopping cart for the daily, weekly runs.
* I shop for heavy stuff when I have the rental car, when I don't have the car I make due without.
* I rent from Enterprise, their cheapest car with USAA membership ran ~$100 for a weekend with fuel.

Renting with Enterprise rocks, many of their rental agencies deliver the car to your door, with drop off service.



How many cats do you own?
 
2013-08-19 07:46:39 AM

cynicalminion: Doc Daneeka: cynicalminion: Jacobin: Voodoo_Stu: I've been thinking about going carless, but I have to ask any one who has:  How the heck do you get groceries home?

Just push them home in the shopping cart

you know that's theft, right?

Lots of car-less urbanites own their own collapsible carts for the express purpose of grocery shopping.

that is YOUR cart. if you get a wheeled contraption (potentially attached to your bike) you can easily transport things.

loading up a shopping cart and wheeling it home, however, is not okay.


I was lucky enough to live a little less than a mile from a mini-grocery.  What happens is, you end up going to the grocery store 4 - 5 times a week, getting two manageable bags each trip, rather than one big load every week.  You'll eat and waste less of everything as a result.  It's a positive experience if you want it to be.
 
2013-08-19 07:55:10 AM
Smackledorfer:


What is the overlap between these various comment styles I see on fark, I wonder? And how many shop at walmart for the low prices subsidized by our taxes that help them remain fed, housed, and clothed for their services?


lolwat? crazy much?

ib4 they have employees on gomment assistance...like every other company (target,bestbuy,kroger,gamestop,wingstop,sears,jcpenny,any store in the mall)

hint: walmart isn't the only one paying low wages
 
2013-08-19 07:56:27 AM

Zeb Hesselgresser: cynicalminion: Doc Daneeka: cynicalminion: Jacobin: Voodoo_Stu: I've been thinking about going carless, but I have to ask any one who has:  How the heck do you get groceries home?

Just push them home in the shopping cart

you know that's theft, right?

Lots of car-less urbanites own their own collapsible carts for the express purpose of grocery shopping.

that is YOUR cart. if you get a wheeled contraption (potentially attached to your bike) you can easily transport things.

loading up a shopping cart and wheeling it home, however, is not okay.

I was lucky enough to live a little less than a mile from a mini-grocery.  What happens is, you end up going to the grocery store 4 - 5 times a week, getting two manageable bags each trip, rather than one big load every week.  You'll eat and waste less of everything as a result.  It's a positive experience if you want it to be.




That's what I wrote above.

The reason why "how do you manage grocery shopping without a car???" is such a mystery to some people is because they are operating from certain assumptions (i.e. one weekly supermarket trip to buy a whole carload full of stuff for a week) shaped by a suburban lifestyle that they don't even realize.

In reality, it's not difficult at all to do your grocery shopping without a car, and there are a variety of ways to do it.
 
2013-08-19 08:01:14 AM

The My Little Pony Killer: Subby sounds bitter that he has to make insurance payments and spend hard-earned cash on gas.


And maintenance.  And personal property tax.  And inspections.

/hates driving cars these days
//B-b-b-but bootstraps....
 
2013-08-19 08:01:21 AM

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: As a 17 year old, we have to deal with a unique situation in American societal history that no previous generations had to contend with. We don't have the access to opportunities that our grandparents did, or the promise of high paying jobs out of high school, or the ability to get a higher education without taking out loans.

I tried to get a summer job, and the only one offered to me was a courier at my step-dad's real estate company. I would have been out walking during the hottest part of the day, and only making $15 per hour.

Excuse us if we're content to stay home and make an impact on the world through blogs and social media instead of working for slave wages so we can live some antiquated American dream.


heh 8/10.. will get some people
 
2013-08-19 08:05:54 AM

Harry_Seldon: brigid: $300 a month for payments, insurance and gas is a small price to pay for that freedom.

Is that you, Al?

[www.bundyology.com image 512x384]


How did I not remember that he had a Duster?? That was the car my Mom had when I was little, except hers was blue with the white top and stripe down the side.  And it couldn't go up hills, which, living in a city full of them, meant we were screwed.

\my first car was dad's 85 Calais, two tone blue with blue velveteen seats
 
2013-08-19 08:11:04 AM
when i was 16 (in 1996) my dad told me that when i learned to drive, his car insurance was going to go up, so i would have to get a job to help pay for it.  i thought that was fair and said okay.  and then i just didn't learn to drive.  i had no interest in getting a job, and i rarely left the house anyway, so i didn't need to learn the drive.  the only place i would ever drive to would probably be the job i didn't want, and the only reason i needed the job was to pay for insurance, so i said screw it.

i didn't learn to drive until i was 22 after i graduated college.  because at that point i needed a job, and therefore i needed a car.  and fun fact:  the car i bought in 2002 is the car i still own, and i intend to keep driving it until it falls apart like the car in the movie blues brothers.
 
2013-08-19 08:12:45 AM

cynicalminion: Doc Daneeka: cynicalminion: Jacobin: Voodoo_Stu: I've been thinking about going carless, but I have to ask any one who has:  How the heck do you get groceries home?

Just push them home in the shopping cart

you know that's theft, right?

Lots of car-less urbanites own their own collapsible carts for the express purpose of grocery shopping.

that is YOUR cart. if you get a wheeled contraption (potentially attached to your bike) you can easily transport things.

loading up a shopping cart and wheeling it home, however, is not okay.


My great aunt lived in NYC her entire life, until age 95, and never once owned a car.  She fed her family by carrying home groceries in her hands.  Imagine that.  She walked everywhere and used to joke how ironic it was how out of shape we "country" dwellers were compared to city folk.  Car culture = fat and lazy culture.
 
2013-08-19 08:19:13 AM
I tell my own kids that getting a car is like getting an anchor tying you to the house for several more years, and if they want "freedom", they should avoid owning a car as long as possible. The car eats money for gas, repairs, insurance.  Your average minimum wage starter jobs barely cover that for a used beater car, and so, you can't put anything away in the bank to save up enough to move out.

My then-girlfriend wife never owned a car; she took the bus and abs everywhere, or bummed rides from family and friends (and me). When we got married, we paid for everything ourselves, AND STARTED OUR LIVES TOGETHER DEBT-FREE, because she had been banking all the money she would have been spending on car ownership all along.
 
2013-08-19 08:27:13 AM
I went car-less for about a year, was walking to and from work.  Fortunately, there was a grocery store right next to were I live (since closed down) so it wasn't hard to get groceries, and picking up groceries two days at a time meant produce didn't turn to mush before it got eaten (which does happen when buying a weeks worth at a time)

Eventually I got sick of all the time I was losing walking to and from work, and did the calculation on car payment + insewerants versus the time I was losing walking to and from work and came to the conclusion that my time was valuable enough that I got a loan and bought a car.  Used car, of course,  Never owned a "new" car- I imagine I'd like to one day, but for now I have reliable and reasonably comfortable transportation, and I can go places that aren't within walking distance/

/Very limited public transpo where I am, especially for the shift I work
//Tried a bike before I took the plunge back into car ownership, it broke the first time I tried to ride it to work
///Couldn't afford a higher quality (sturdier) bike, and you can't finance them like a car
 
2013-08-19 08:45:13 AM
In may day (adjusts onion), if you didn't have your drivers license by a few months past your 16th birthday you were looked at as if you had some sort of developmental defect.

Parents soon found out about the utility of having a teenager that could drive. After my older brother got his license, the two of us did all the grocery-shopping for the family, along with a plethora of other chores.

My grandfather would occasionally call his buddy that ran a bar/liquor store, and then send me to pick up his beer.
 
2013-08-19 08:48:57 AM

The My Little Pony Killer: Subby sounds bitter that he has to make insurance payments and spend hard-earned cash on gas.


Shut your troll mouth.  Insurance payments are not funny.
 
2013-08-19 08:49:37 AM
The average new car costs $30k? What are you people buying? I just bought a new Accord, and drove it off the lot for less than $21k (tax included). You can get a Fiat 500, which is a good starter car, for @$15k, or a Kia for $12k. Heck, you can get a good, used Jag XK8 for $12k.

Jorn the Younger:

///Couldn't afford a higher quality (sturdier) bike, and you can't finance them like a car

Sure you can. You can get a good-enough bike for less than $500, and banks will make that kind of unsecured loan. I got a $600 bank loan to buy a saxophone 20 years ago.
 
2013-08-19 08:55:39 AM

thenumber5: well, when i got my first car in 2000

i could fill it up with ~15 dollars a week

now to fill up my car it runs about 40



I often wonder if you Americans have any idea how cheap your gas is compared to even your next door neighbours?  You think 40$ to fill your car is expensive?  That's what it cost in Toronto 20 years ago.  I drive a Mazda 3, 2006 regular base model, and it cost 65$ to fill my tank this weekend.  It was nearly empty, we pay over 1.30 per litre.  Contrary to popular belief we actually make LESS money than at most equivalent jobs in the USA.  So quit your biatching..we actually don't have it that bad and you really have it EASY.  You would lose your minds if you found out how much they pay for gas in the EU.
 
2013-08-19 08:56:35 AM

weltallica: [i.imgur.com image 640x489]

We're making the next generation pay money they don't have for degrees they don't need for jobs that won't exist.

Like the Wall St Crash; things are slowly building to a head, and when it breaks, things will become very bad for EVERYONE, very quickly, without warning.  And it will be unbprecedented, so no one will know what do do.  The standard of living will be rocked like it's never been before for millions.

Except for the mega-rich.  They will weather the storm just fine.



I agree.   You're right.  But it's an incomplete picture.


Student load debt is caused by the Government interfering and distorting that market.  Universities know what the market will bear for their services -say about $2,000 per semester for a typical state U. The Government chips in about $5,000 and the Universities certainly know that. So they charge $7,000. If Washington started lending students $50,000, schools would charge $52,000. They even have student loan offices to make sure you bring them that Government money.


No matter how much your incompetent Government tries to help; they are only generating industry specific inflation. Just like they did in the housing market from 1993 to 2008. And the kid with a degree but no job (an education produced but not used) is just like a house with no real owner - a victim of a government determined to pump up a market. Next year they will start constructing a health care disaster the same way.


When I was in school; that money came as grants. Now it comes as loans, so they graduate with a mountain on their backs. And Tax Payers get ass rammed to make the disaster happen. And schools have lowered standards to grab more easy cash. So kids graduate with a huge debt, into a market flooded with cheap degrees, after receiving a 2nd rate education.
 
2013-08-19 09:00:38 AM

mbillips: The average new car costs $30k? What are you people buying? I just bought a new Accord, and drove it off the lot for less than $21k (tax included). You can get a Fiat 500, which is a good starter car, for @$15k, or a Kia for $12k. Heck, you can get a good, used Jag XK8 for $12k.

Jorn the Younger:

///Couldn't afford a higher quality (sturdier) bike, and you can't finance them like a car

Sure you can. You can get a good-enough bike for less than $500, and banks will make that kind of unsecured loan. I got a $600 bank loan to buy a saxophone 20 years ago.


Not when I looked.  The only places willing to do loans that small and/or unsecured were PayDayLoanShark places, and I wasn't going to pay over $1000 for a $500 bike.
 
2013-08-19 09:08:30 AM

Smackledorfer: bborchar: Smackledorfer: bborchar: they think it's supposed to be easier because they have a degree.

Why shouldn't it be easier to find a job, or easier to find one with greater pay, when you have a degree?  Think really hard before you answer, and realize that it is in reality easier to find a job and earn more pay by having a degree (even a filthy libby arts one, if the statistics I last read were correct).

bborchar: I remember filling out my tax return that year where I made $6K. For the entire year

Oh, you are a liar, nm then. That is what, less than 20 hours a week at 8 bucks an hour?  I thought you were working full time? And you lived in Japan for a year and tasmania for a summer, all while working full time crappy jobs just to get by and once coming in at a 6k year?


Something smells trolly to me. I give you a 0/10 and the recommendation that you don't change lures so many times during a thread. Give one bait and action a chance for a few minutes and a little drifting time to cover some area with that method.

Japan- 2003, direct student exchange, since it was my major, and cost me no more than it did living in the states. I had a small stipend and a scholarship that paid for my round trip airfare.

Tasmania- 2004, oh, look at that- I had made friends in Japan and went and stayed with them the entire summer after my dad died. I charged my airfare and paid it off in about 6 months.

I made just over $6 an hour as a computer lab manager, but worked from 20-30 a week, which was considered full time on campus for students (we weren't allowed to work more). My sophomore year I had a second job, but I had to quit to go to Japan. I took out the minimum student loans for my tuition, and paid the rest if my expenses out of pocket. I ended up with less than 20K at the end of it, which is half paid off now, 7 years later. Could have completely paid it off, but we bought a house.

My apartment was in the crime laden area of town and cost me $260 a month. My car was a 1990 Buick, the same car I first bought in 1999 for $1000.

So no, I'm not trolling.

You never asked anyone for help but you had a scholarship and mooched off friends in japan? What a rough life your full time job was. I am sure you worked full time in japan too right?

Ohhh and you consider 20-30 hours full time? Lol.

Worked my way through college myself. Sometimes put in fifty hours, and I still wouldn't think of responding to a list of the job reality in our economy with 'all I can hear is waaaah'.


Guess you fail in reading comprehension. I didn't mooch off of anyone in Japan...I went there for school and still payed for it like I always did...it just didn't cost me more because I was part of an exchange. I taught English when I was over there. I stayed with my friends when I went to Tasmania, who also came over here and stayed for a while. That's what friends do for each other. I said the university considered it full time, so they wouldn't have to pay benefits to students. Which is why I also had a second job sometimes. And whether it was 20 hours or 50 hours a week (which I also did my sophomore year), the fact remained that I had to still support myself on that with rent, gas, food, books, utilities, etc.

And no, I didn't get any help from my parents, because they were caring for my great grandmother as she was dying and my nephew because my brother was a lazy a**hole who wouldn't raise him himself. I was 4 hours away from them, so there wasn't much they could help me with. They came twice, once for a football game and the next time for my graduation. I didn't go back often because I couldn't afford the gas or missing work. My point was that I never made any excuses for why I couldn't do something. I wanted to go to Japan ever since high school, so I found a way to go. I wanted to go to see my friends in Tasmania, so I went. My husband could only find a job that was 500 miles away from our families, so went went. I needed a job to help support us, so I worked lots of temp jobs and applied everywhere until I finally got a full time position. And when we wanted to buy a house, we saved up our money for three years to put down a deposit. When someone gives me a list of excuses why they "can't" do something, it means that they've already convinced themselves that they can't do it. If you're educated, smart, and hardworking, you just have to expand your horizons. Try jobs in other states (or countries, even). Of course, if you continue to think that I'm lying, that's your problem. My mom couldn't help me and my dad died in a halfway house, but I was obviously mooching off of someone.
 
2013-08-19 09:12:52 AM
My first car was a 1974 Chevy Impala Wagon, bought in 1981. A monstrosity of a car. Rear window cranked electrically into the rear roof, and then the tailgate rolled down into the sub-floor somehow, at the twist of the key. Roof rack would actually carry a small load of lumber, and not  bend up like pot metal. Did I mention this car was a monster? Let down the rear seat, and you had a full 8' of bed. I had every combination of home speaker system known to mankind packed into the rear of that baby at one time or another. Ten miles to the gallon, but I could put 11 people into it, and everybody would be in a seat, since it also had a rear-facing rumble seat which folded up out of the rear floor, and the spare tire stored in one of the ample wheel well extensions. Used to ride up into the mountains and party, park backwards at the drive-in, and/ or just open up thew cavern and blast the stereo at parties. Best $350 I ever spent. It was a rolling battle-wagon, but I got laid. Probably because of the guitar...
 
2013-08-19 09:18:44 AM

weltallica: We're making the next generation pay money they don't have for degrees they don't need for jobs that won't exist.


99% agreed, but I have met too many college students who just look at you funny when you laugh at their major.  A 19-20 yro has no business trying to decide a major on their own, they either stick to it and can't find a job or had to switch or went back to get a degree that actually gets them work.  Those that got it right the first shot through college typically had an old influence in their decision making and this is not a new thing.  An uncle of mine had a nice long productive career coaching hs sports, but if that is all he did he wouldn't have coached one game.  He left college all ready to just coach, but someone got ahold of him and asked the question "Do you want a career or do you want a job?".  My uncle replied "I want a job".  The guy then said "Teach then".  My uncle taught where he could till a coaching job opened up, by then he was financially set instead of scrapping by waiting for that sweet coaching job.  My cousin wanted to follow his dad's foot steps and he did, he started out teaching and is now looking to take over his dad's team.  Good thing he didn't wait till dad retired, because cousin has a wife and kids to support.  They already own their home.  I also know a couple that both went to college at same time, she changed her major and has a job where he didn't change his couldn't keep a job and they divorced.  They both picked majors that sounded cool, but more college kids taking the same major than jobs that were available.  She switched to special education which has far fewer folks fighting for the job and it is something she was already good at, she had a specials needs sibling.

/uncle is in the MHSAA baseball hall of fame
//over 500 career coaching wins and still hasn't let go of his baseball team
///cousin has the basketball team
 
2013-08-19 09:20:06 AM

Jorn the Younger: mbillips: The average new car costs $30k? What are you people buying? I just bought a new Accord, and drove it off the lot for less than $21k (tax included). You can get a Fiat 500, which is a good starter car, for @$15k, or a Kia for $12k. Heck, you can get a good, used Jag XK8 for $12k.

Jorn the Younger:

///Couldn't afford a higher quality (sturdier) bike, and you can't finance them like a car

Sure you can. You can get a good-enough bike for less than $500, and banks will make that kind of unsecured loan. I got a $600 bank loan to buy a saxophone 20 years ago.

Not when I looked.  The only places willing to do loans that small and/or unsecured were PayDayLoanShark places, and I wasn't going to pay over $1000 for a $500 bike.


Well, yeah, that's how unsecured debt works. You'd pay just as much or more if you put it on a credit card and made the minimum payments. My first bike was a $65 beater from a pawn shop, but it got me where I needed to go for two years. Even if you get a car, it's a good idea to get a bike for when the weather's nice; cars make you lazy and fat.

/Fat and lazy
 
2013-08-19 09:22:52 AM

Smackledorfer: bborchar: bingethinker: Stop trying to introduce reality-based thinking based on the way things currently are into this thread! Boomers want to whine about how millennials are supposedly moochers for not magically taking advantage of opportunities that aren't there anymore, not listen to reasoned arguments.

And millennials want to whine about how boomers have all the jobs and all the money, when a lot of us aren't doing that well either. There's some reality for you, junior.

My parents have been laid off from more jobs than I can remember...every retirement package they ever had went to keeping the house payments going during unemployment. Many boomers are probably looking at the same situation.

Getting back on track:
While every gen has its trials, this thread started about cars, and I don't see how it is up for debate that the costs for buying them, running them, and paying for the things they take you to have gone up every decade while wages have been stagnant. It is common sense that fewer kids would buy one.

Hell I am not even that old and I've seen gas go through the roof and cars get harder and harder to grease-monkey. I can hardly diagnose and replace my pcm. Multiple shops couldn't properly diagnose that. My dad's cars could be fixed by him and his father most of the time.


The care and insurance have definitely gone up. You can get crappy but working cars for about the same as usual (my last car before this was a 1996 sunfire I got for less than $1000, but it was a manual with absolutely no electrical parts and the trunk didn't even pop unless you used a key, lol). I had that car for 10 years, until we finally traded it in last year for a used 08' Hyundai sonata. But insurance for teenagers is outrageous, and gas is really high. So it's a bigger balancing act...but it's one that a college grad should be able to handle. Or maybe look for jobs in cities with public transportation, but not high living costs (I live in Pittsburgh now, which is one of those cities). At one point after I graduated college and couldn't find a job, I starting looking into teaching abroad and the foreign legion. Those are great jobs for getting real w
 
2013-08-19 09:28:14 AM

E5bie: JorgiX: Psst, that is not a full-time job on the real world you seem to have a problem with. And again, try living on $6K in the Bay Area, or finding a $260 apartment.

This one time I toured a $260 apartment. It was... memorable. And that was the day I decided to stop being poor.


Mine was shag carpet from one end to another, blood had been painted over on the walls (but not well), and I lived over a drug deal who beat his girlfriend and across the hall from a woman who once tried to shoot another tenant for moving her clothes on top if the only washing machine in our complex. I had to call the cops several times. But when it's all you can afford...what else is there?
 
2013-08-19 09:32:34 AM
There is one big glaring problem with today's cars.  Inspection.  Here in NJ, where inspection is mandatory, the only way to pass is to plug the car into their computer, and presumably, they will tell you what is wrong with it.  Nowadays ALL cars have to have these sorts of interfaces, even though they don't work with a shiat.  Case in point...  My wife's 1999 Volvo wouldn't pass because the check engine light is on.  "Well, what do I need to fix?"  "I don't know.  The computer doesn't say.  So I can't pass your car."

We were planning on saving that car for our son, who will be driving in a couple of years.  But considering it will likely never pass inspection again, that doesn't seem likely.

Couple that with the cost of newer cars, gas, and insturance...  I don't see how any teenager working at McDonalds could afford anything BUT their car, assuming they could afford even that.
 
2013-08-19 09:37:29 AM

mbillips: Heck, you can get a good, used Jag XK8 for $12k.


there are no "good" used Jaguars, just gigantic money pits.
 
2013-08-19 09:42:29 AM

Full Metal Retard: weltallica: [i.imgur.com image 640x489]

We're making the next generation pay money they don't have for degrees they don't need for jobs that won't exist.

Like the Wall St Crash; things are slowly building to a head, and when it breaks, things will become very bad for EVERYONE, very quickly, without warning.  And it will be unbprecedented, so no one will know what do do.  The standard of living will be rocked like it's never been before for millions.

Except for the mega-rich.  They will weather the storm just fine.


I agree.   You're right.  But it's an incomplete picture.


Student load debt is caused by the Government interfering and distorting that market.  Universities know what the market will bear for their services -say about $2,000 per semester for a typical state U. The Government chips in about $5,000 and the Universities certainly know that. So they charge $7,000. If Washington started lending students $50,000, schools would charge $52,000. They even have student loan offices to make sure you bring them that Government money.


And this is why school vouchers don't work.  That awesome private school that fills every seat and charges $10,000/year will start charging $15,000 if you start handing out $5K vouchers to everyone.


No matter how much your incompetent Government tries to help; they are only generating industry specific inflation. Just like they did in the housing market from 1993 to 2008. And the kid with a degree but no job (an education produced but not used) is just like a house with no real owner - a victim of a government determined to pump up a market. Next year they will start constructing a health care disaster the same way.

You are way oversimplifying things.  There are many reasons why college prices have gone up.  The most basic reason is simple economics.  There are more college students now than ever before so demand is at an all time high.  Other factors: College administrators are incentivized to build fancy new buildings that nobody wants because it makes the balance sheet look good meaning they'll get their bonus.  Whereas states used to cover about two thirds the costs of state universities, now it is typically less than half the cost, leaving the student to pick up the rest.  The focus on research vs. teaching.  The cost of cutting edge technology.  Too much non teaching staff.  There's more.  Comparatively, the $5000 loan you are complaining about against a $50000 tuition has a relatively smaller effect.

As to health care: Feel free to compare the per person cost of pre Obama health care in America to any other first world nation with socialized medicine.  Left to itself, free market health care has accomplished nothing in 40 years except for soaring costs, bankruptcies, millions of people without coverage and plenty of lucrative executive bonuses.  Our system is a joke.
 
2013-08-19 09:48:16 AM

dumbobruni: mbillips: Heck, you can get a good, used Jag XK8 for $12k.

there are no "good" used Jaguars, just gigantic money pits.


That's true only of the pre-Ford ones. They've been reliable cars for, like, 20 years now, and have improved further since Tata bought them five years ago. The parts and dealer maintenance ARE super expensive, but you can say that about Mercs and BMWs, too.
 
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