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(NPR)   American teens used to look forward to car ownership as the ultimate ticket to freedom, and getting laid. Now, they're too damn lazy get a job to buy some wheels, and getting a ride to GameStop in mom's minivan is just fine, even if they're 29   (npr.org) divider line 330
    More: Sad, Gamestop, Americans, political freedom, Woodward Dream Cruise, car culture, cars in america, damn, owners  
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10299 clicks; posted to Main » on 19 Aug 2013 at 12:25 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-08-19 02:44:02 AM

numb3r5ev3n: Stop trying to introduce reality-based thinking based on the way things currently are into this thread! Boomers want to whine about how millennials are supposedly moochers for not magically taking advantage of opportunities that aren't there anymore, not listen to reasoned arguments.


As a 32 year old who was lucky enough to do well, I am stuck between those two views.  First, my advice to any individual is the crap the boomers say all the time: work harder, save more, cry less, you name it.  However, while that is the right move for any individual, it isn't going to do shiat to shrink the lower class or strengthen the middle class.  Those require society changes far beyond what an individual can do by out-competing those at his level. There are limited resources, and there always will be.  The amount of those resources relative to the number of people will change over time, of course, but anyone pretending that poor people increasing their workload will do a damn thing about the increasing consolidation of wealth in the hands of the very very few is pretty darn ignorant.

If the poor double their productivity, then the number the businesses will hire will be cut.  If they increase their hours, then those hours will come out of someone else's paycheck.  If a solid work ethic would change the world into a utopia, then we'd already live in one.
 
2013-08-19 02:44:09 AM
As a 17 year old, we have to deal with a unique situation in American societal history that no previous generations had to contend with. We don't have the access to opportunities that our grandparents did, or the promise of high paying jobs out of high school, or the ability to get a higher education without taking out loans.

I tried to get a summer job, and the only one offered to me was a courier at my step-dad's real estate company. I would have been out walking during the hottest part of the day, and only making $15 per hour.

Excuse us if we're content to stay home and make an impact on the world through blogs and social media instead of working for slave wages so we can live some antiquated American dream.
 
2013-08-19 02:49:24 AM

numb3r5ev3n: JorgiX: As a teen, I am getting a kick of this thread. The disconnect between what was reality decades ago and what it is now is immense, but what seems even more alarming is that some people's perception has not changed at all.

To start, cars are not as cheap as they used to be. I do not have empirical data to support Cash for Clunkers as the reason, but it is clear that it is almost impossible to find even the shiattiest of cars for under $1000.

Part-time jobs are not as plentiful as they were before. Sure, you had three jobs in high school and could afford an old car and maybe even a place to live. Well now in a ton of markets you are not competing for those jobs with a bunch of teens, you are also competing with people that were pushed out of their jobs by the recession and have as many years in experience as you living on this planet. I don't blame hiring managers for choosing them since they don't only have more experience, but are a much steadier source of labor when you consider that they might be stuck there for a while and are not leaving for college or the military any time soon. Multiple jobs are almost a thing of the past in some particularly hit regions.

The cost of things has risen astronomically faster than wages. This obviously affects everyone, but young people might be the group that has been hit the hardest. Again, I do not have any empirical data to support this, but it sure seems that way. The cost of college continues to rise, aid is not as comprehensive as it was before, and other things particularly relevant to  young people (technology, clothing, student housing, etc.)  continue to rise in price. Couple that to the lack of jobs, and the fact that you have never lived to work during the good times and hence you have no savings, and the picture becomes quite dire.

Paid internships are increasingly harder to come by. Even large companies in lucrative sectors like finance and technology keep making intern positions unpaid and still getting a record ...

Stop trying to introduce reality-based thinking based on the way things currently are into this thread! Boomers want to whine about how millennials are supposedly moochers for not magically taking advantage of opportunities that aren't there anymore, not listen to reasoned arguments.


I'm 30, and the problem I have with the people a whole 6 years younger than me is that they think it's supposed to be easier because they have a degree. I graduated 7 years ado from college, where I worked one full time crap job to support myself. I had a terrible apartment, no Internet, no cable, and I paid for my rent, electricity (which, by leaving first thing in the morning and coming home after dark, I managed to keep around $20 a month), insurance, gas and all of my books. I remember filling out my tax return that year where I made $6K. For the entire year. That wasn't worth more than it is now. I moved with my boyfriend across the country where he found a decent job, but I couldn't find a job for 3 months because that was when the job losses were starting. I found a temp job that lasted 3 months before the company was bought out. Then I found another temp job that lasted 9 months before it was bought out. Then I found another temp job that lasted almost a year before they finally put me on a full time salary with decent money. This was 2009 when I finally was full time and it took me 2 years to find a stable, decent paying job. My husband was part of the govt pay freeze for several years, but once that was over, he finally got a promotion.

It was and still is really hard, but I never once thought of going back to my parents and asking for help.
 
2013-08-19 02:52:34 AM

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: I tried to get a summer job, and the only one offered to me was a courier at my step-dad's real estate company. I would have been out walking during the hottest part of the day, and only making $15 per hour.


Half the people in this area would kill for a job that pays that much, even part-time.
 
2013-08-19 02:53:34 AM

Smackledorfer: tinfoil-hat maggie: While I agree with you. I'd just like to tell a story about my grandfather. He once worked for a company that you would be fired if you owned a car., because the company knew they didn't paying enough to afford one and so they must be stealing from someone. True story,I'm not sure what year that was in.

1. Was this in the United States?
2. If so, I find your story hard to believe unless your grandfather was talking about a time before Henry Ford.

/not calling YOU a liar.  Possibly saying your grandfather liked to tell uphill-both-ways stories while tying on his onion...


Yes it was in the US.
I can understand it being hard to believe but IIRC the company was Woolworrth and he started as a stock boy this was 1920's or so. By the 1930's he he did own a car he was in management then when the war broke out they couldn't afford it, they couldn't get new tires, so they gave up driving. He was too old to be drafted or join the military but he worked as as a coast watcher in Florida.
 
2013-08-19 02:56:07 AM

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: As a 17 year old, we have to deal with a unique situation in American societal history that no previous generations had to contend with. We don't have the access to opportunities that our grandparents did, or the promise of high paying jobs out of high school, or the ability to get a higher education without taking out loans.

I tried to get a summer job, and the only one offered to me was a courier at my step-dad's real estate company. I would have been out walking during the hottest part of the day, and only making $15 per hour.

Excuse us if we're content to stay home and make an impact on the world through blogs and social media instead of working for slave wages so we can live some antiquated American dream.


I live in a small town. Recently, I walked with my young teens by the local school, which used to be K-12, and pointed out the stone engraved with the words, "GIFT OF THE CLASS OF 1937" and another metal plaque reading, "GIFT OF THE CLASS OF 1941". We talked for a while about it.
....
Know how I know you suck donkey balls?
 
2013-08-19 02:57:15 AM

bborchar: they think it's supposed to be easier because they have a degree.


Why shouldn't it be easier to find a job, or easier to find one with greater pay, when you have a degree?  Think really hard before you answer, and realize that it is in reality easier to find a job and earn more pay by having a degree (even a filthy libby arts one, if the statistics I last read were correct).

bborchar: I remember filling out my tax return that year where I made $6K. For the entire year


Oh, you are a liar, nm then. That is what, less than 20 hours a week at 8 bucks an hour?  I thought you were working full time? And you lived in Japan for a year and tasmania for a summer, all while working full time crappy jobs just to get by and once coming in at a 6k year?


Something smells trolly to me. I give you a 0/10 and the recommendation that you don't change lures so many times during a thread. Give one bait and action a chance for a few minutes and a little drifting time to cover some area with that method.
 
2013-08-19 03:03:15 AM

bborchar: numb3r5ev3n: JorgiX: As a teen, I am getting a kick of this thread. The disconnect between what was reality decades ago and what it is now is immense, but what seems even more alarming is that some people's perception has not changed at all.

To start, cars are not as cheap as they used to be. I do not have empirical data to support Cash for Clunkers as the reason, but it is clear that it is almost impossible to find even the shiattiest of cars for under $1000.

Part-time jobs are not as plentiful as they were before. Sure, you had three jobs in high school and could afford an old car and maybe even a place to live. Well now in a ton of markets you are not competing for those jobs with a bunch of teens, you are also competing with people that were pushed out of their jobs by the recession and have as many years in experience as you living on this planet. I don't blame hiring managers for choosing them since they don't only have more experience, but are a much steadier source of labor when you consider that they might be stuck there for a while and are not leaving for college or the military any time soon. Multiple jobs are almost a thing of the past in some particularly hit regions.

The cost of things has risen astronomically faster than wages. This obviously affects everyone, but young people might be the group that has been hit the hardest. Again, I do not have any empirical data to support this, but it sure seems that way. The cost of college continues to rise, aid is not as comprehensive as it was before, and other things particularly relevant to  young people (technology, clothing, student housing, etc.)  continue to rise in price. Couple that to the lack of jobs, and the fact that you have never lived to work during the good times and hence you have no savings, and the picture becomes quite dire.

Paid internships are increasingly harder to come by. Even large companies in lucrative sectors like finance and technology keep making intern positions unpaid and s ...


I seriously admire people like you that gut it out the hard way. I really do. I lived in the bad part of an extremely dangerous town and literally had to fight my way out of there. My athletic career has opened chances for me and allowed me to live more comfortably these days, but it's not like anything was handed to me. If anything it was the other way around.

Here is the thing though, you worked a terrible job to get yourself through college. From what I read you went to college BEFORE the bad times, so that terrible job was still there. There is very good chance that AFTER the recession (when you were looking for a job after you graduated) that job was not there anymore and some college kid was left struggling. You know how far $6K would get you in the Bay Area for example? Maybe in the crappiest of apartments, or food on the table, but you have to make a choice. Oh yeah, and no table to put that food on.
 
2013-08-19 03:04:52 AM

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: I tried to get a summer job, and the only one offered to me was a courier at my step-dad's real estate company. I would have been out walking during the hottest part of the day, and only making $15 per hour.


You do realize that $15/hour just sucks as a person who has to pay rent, but it's pretty good as a person who can crash in their bedroom?

I was making $8/hour on the grounds crew of a golf course and I made $7,000 in profit (defined as "Bank Account after" - "Bank Account before") after taxes in 18 weeks of summer (Lots of OT of course, mostly because the course flooded every single Saturday in May and I worked lots of 16 hour Saturdays (on OT) and 60 hour weeks getting it fixed up).  I'm making $72K/year now and I'm still not at that point.  Heck, that's $21K/year in PROFIT.   I was making $30/hour + OT in Boston, didn't have a car, was living in a literally rat-infested apartment, and I STILL wasn't making that much in profit (Went up about $5K on the summer, blew $2500 on a new laptop to replace my failing one because I was a CS student).

$15/hour * 16 weeks * 40 hours  = $9,600.  I'm betting that you could have mooched a ride from your step-dad to work (so that a car was semi-necessary), done the exact same things I did and walked away with about the exact same amount of money I did.

 Now long-term, that job would've screwed you hard, since the more money you make, the less financial aid you get in college, but it's a nice temporary bonus.
 
2013-08-19 03:05:19 AM

bborchar: numb3r5ev3n: JorgiX: As a teen, I am getting a kick of this thread. The disconnect between what was reality decades ago and what it is now is immense, but what seems even more alarming is that some people's perception has not changed at all.

To start, cars are not as cheap as they used to be. I do not have empirical data to support Cash for Clunkers as the reason, but it is clear that it is almost impossible to find even the shiattiest of cars for under $1000.

Part-time jobs are not as plentiful as they were before. Sure, you had three jobs in high school and could afford an old car and maybe even a place to live. Well now in a ton of markets you are not competing for those jobs with a bunch of teens, you are also competing with people that were pushed out of their jobs by the recession and have as many years in experience as you living on this planet. I don't blame hiring managers for choosing them since they don't only have more experience, but are a much steadier source of labor when you consider that they might be stuck there for a while and are not leaving for college or the military any time soon. Multiple jobs are almost a thing of the past in some particularly hit regions.

The cost of things has risen astronomically faster than wages. This obviously affects everyone, but young people might be the group that has been hit the hardest. Again, I do not have any empirical data to support this, but it sure seems that way. The cost of college continues to rise, aid is not as comprehensive as it was before, and other things particularly relevant to  young people (technology, clothing, student housing, etc.)  continue to rise in price. Couple that to the lack of jobs, and the fact that you have never lived to work during the good times and hence you have no savings, and the picture becomes quite dire.

Paid internships are increasingly harder to come by. Even large companies in lucrative sectors like finance and technology keep making intern positions unpaid and s ...


Good for you. Here's a gold star. Not everyone's situation is the same. Sure, there are some folks who don't carry their own weight -  but not everyone falls under the heading of "entitled moocher"  because they have to ask for help at some point. You're making a lot of sweeping generalizations there, pal.

I have to agree with the persons earlier who said something to the effect of, "Why would a young person want to get into debt purchasing an asset of depreciating value?" It just seems like a racket if you have other options available.

/In my 30s, working in a steady IT position. I Didn't finish college. I'm thanking God every day that I didn't rack up as much debt as some of the folks I know.
//I went carless for a while.
/// It's no longer feasible in my current situation.
 
2013-08-19 03:05:33 AM
Subby secretly remembers that time he caught a co-ed peeing on his lawn. He remembers it often and vigorously.
 
2013-08-19 03:08:15 AM

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: As a 17 year old, we have to deal with a unique situation in American societal history that no previous generations had to contend with. We don't have the access to opportunities that our grandparents did, or the promise of high paying jobs out of high school, or the ability to get a higher education without taking out loans.

I tried to get a summer job, and the only one offered to me was a courier at my step-dad's real estate company. I would have been out walking during the hottest part of the day, and only making $15 per hour.

Excuse us if we're content to stay home and make an impact on the world through blogs and social media instead of working for slave wages so we can live some antiquated American dream.


Well done.
 
2013-08-19 03:12:14 AM
My first car, 68 Mustang, cost me $1000. Many memories, and the first taste of freedom

forums.aaca.org
 
2013-08-19 03:14:25 AM
The headline missing a word.
 
2013-08-19 03:16:40 AM

quickdraw: Decades of propaganda aimed at making public transit seem like a desirable way to travel has finally paid off and now people complain about that too.


Unless you live in a town with good public trans. If only I worked within my city, I could do away with the car.
 
2013-08-19 03:17:49 AM

Smackledorfer: bborchar: they think it's supposed to be easier because they have a degree.

Why shouldn't it be easier to find a job, or easier to find one with greater pay, when you have a degree?  Think really hard before you answer, and realize that it is in reality easier to find a job and earn more pay by having a degree (even a filthy libby arts one, if the statistics I last read were correct).

bborchar: I remember filling out my tax return that year where I made $6K. For the entire year

Oh, you are a liar, nm then. That is what, less than 20 hours a week at 8 bucks an hour?  I thought you were working full time? And you lived in Japan for a year and tasmania for a summer, all while working full time crappy jobs just to get by and once coming in at a 6k year?


Something smells trolly to me. I give you a 0/10 and the recommendation that you don't change lures so many times during a thread. Give one bait and action a chance for a few minutes and a little drifting time to cover some area with that method.


Japan- 2003, direct student exchange, since it was my major, and cost me no more than it did living in the states. I had a small stipend and a scholarship that paid for my round trip airfare.

Tasmania- 2004, oh, look at that- I had made friends in Japan and went and stayed with them the entire summer after my dad died. I charged my airfare and paid it off in about 6 months.

I made just over $6 an hour as a computer lab manager, but worked from 20-30 a week, which was considered full time on campus for students (we weren't allowed to work more). My sophomore year I had a second job, but I had to quit to go to Japan. I took out the minimum student loans for my tuition, and paid the rest if my expenses out of pocket. I ended up with less than 20K at the end of it, which is half paid off now, 7 years later. Could have completely paid it off, but we bought a house.

My apartment was in the crime laden area of town and cost me $260 a month. My car was a 1990 Buick, the same car I first bought in 1999 for $1000.

So no, I'm not trolling.
 
2013-08-19 03:19:36 AM

evil saltine: Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: As a 17 year old, we have to deal with a unique situation in American societal history that no previous generations had to contend with. We don't have the access to opportunities that our grandparents did, or the promise of high paying jobs out of high school, or the ability to get a higher education without taking out loans.

I tried to get a summer job, and the only one offered to me was a courier at my step-dad's real estate company. I would have been out walking during the hottest part of the day, and only making $15 per hour.

Excuse us if we're content to stay home and make an impact on the world through blogs and social media instead of working for slave wages so we can live some antiquated American dream.

Well done.


I have to agree, this is some nice trolling. I was thinking back to when I was 17. It was pretty tough in 1981. The US has been dealing with "stagflation" for years. Gas prices went through the roof. Interest rates were insane.  My father died that year from his 3 pack a day habit, and my mother never worked since she was a stay at home mother.

Point being is that every generation has their tough times. That doesn't diminish the current suck fest. I am just recalling that it was tough for me also.
 
2013-08-19 03:20:26 AM

Twitch Boy: Wait until this generation finally gets jobs, then looks in the mirror and sees 35 staring them in the face and realizes they never got to live out their youth.

Buy stock in BMW and Just For Men.  You're going to be able to see the midlife crisis from space.


Have a job in a (potentially) high-paying career; outlook still bleak.

Sure, once I'm done with my grad program I'll be looking at $80k a year, but that still doesn't earn one much these days.
 
2013-08-19 03:23:48 AM
Stop trying to introduce reality-based thinking based on the way things currently are into this thread! Boomers want to whine about how millennials are supposedly moochers for not magically taking advantage of opportunities that aren't there anymore, not listen to reasoned arguments.

And millennials want to whine about how boomers have all the jobs and all the money, when a lot of us aren't doing that well either. There's some reality for you, junior.
 
2013-08-19 03:26:12 AM

Smackledorfer: OgreMagi: /no, I'm not calling for the people's control of the factor. That's the biggest circle of suck

Are you calling for less people's control of the factor, as you put it? Like, no or lower minimum wage perhaps, lower safety standards in the workplace, fewer worker protections, and/or a reduction in safety net? Because if you aren't calling for more, then what makes this spot we are at now some type of sweet spot?


Is your education so lacking that you don't recognize the phrase, "people's control of the factory" and what it means?  Well, in your defense I'll admit I got it slightly wrong.  It's "workers' control of the factory."  But same thing.
 
2013-08-19 03:28:00 AM

Smackledorfer: numb3r5ev3n: Stop trying to introduce reality-based thinking based on the way things currently are into this thread! Boomers want to whine about how millennials are supposedly moochers for not magically taking advantage of opportunities that aren't there anymore, not listen to reasoned arguments.

As a 32 year old who was lucky enough to do well, I am stuck between those two views.  First, my advice to any individual is the crap the boomers say all the time: work harder, save more, cry less, you name it.  However, while that is the right move for any individual, it isn't going to do shiat to shrink the lower class or strengthen the middle class.  Those require society changes far beyond what an individual can do by out-competing those at his level. There are limited resources, and there always will be.  The amount of those resources relative to the number of people will change over time, of course, but anyone pretending that poor people increasing their workload will do a damn thing about the increasing consolidation of wealth in the hands of the very very few is pretty darn ignorant.

If the poor double their productivity, then the number the businesses will hire will be cut.  If they increase their hours, then those hours will come out of someone else's paycheck.  If a solid work ethic would change the world into a utopia, then we'd already live in one.


I think that those of us born on the line between Gen Xers and Millenials were the lastones to have some really good opportunities before everything went to shiat. I know that hard work and thrift counts for a lot, but those who are just coming of age have been shafted, and they know it. To quote The Comedian from Watchmen, "The American Dream came true. You're lookin'at it."
 
2013-08-19 03:31:43 AM

bingethinker: Stop trying to introduce reality-based thinking based on the way things currently are into this thread! Boomers want to whine about how millennials are supposedly moochers for not magically taking advantage of opportunities that aren't there anymore, not listen to reasoned arguments.

And millennials want to whine about how boomers have all the jobs and all the money, when a lot of us aren't doing that well either. There's some reality for you, junior.


Lol "junior." I am in my 30s and have a decent job, thanks. I am sorry you aren't doing well either, but we came from a time when we had money and opportunities, and watched it all get gambled away. Stop yelling at clouds and go after the gamblers on wall st if you want things to change.
 
2013-08-19 03:31:57 AM

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: As a 17 year old, we have to deal with a unique situation in American societal history that no previous generations had to contend with. We don't have the access to opportunities that our grandparents did, or the promise of high paying jobs out of high school, or the ability to get a higher education without taking out loans.

I tried to get a summer job, and the only one offered to me was a courier at my step-dad's real estate company. I would have been out walking during the hottest part of the day, and only making $15 per hour.

Excuse us if we're content to stay home and make an impact on the world through blogs and social media instead of working for slave wages so we can live some antiquated American dream.


Wait, $15 per hour? As a college-educated twentysomething, I'll take it!

/we all have to start somewhere
//you kinda sound like part of the problem
///look at minimum wage
////unless you're trolling, then well done
 
2013-08-19 03:32:58 AM

bingethinker: Stop trying to introduce reality-based thinking based on the way things currently are into this thread! Boomers want to whine about how millennials are supposedly moochers for not magically taking advantage of opportunities that aren't there anymore, not listen to reasoned arguments.

And millennials want to whine about how boomers have all the jobs and all the money, when a lot of us aren't doing that well either. There's some reality for you, junior.


My parents have been laid off from more jobs than I can remember...every retirement package they ever had went to keeping the house payments going during unemployment. Many boomers are probably looking at the same situation.
 
2013-08-19 03:35:25 AM

bingethinker: Stop trying to introduce reality-based thinking based on the way things currently are into this thread! Boomers want to whine about how millennials are supposedly moochers for not magically taking advantage of opportunities that aren't there anymore, not listen to reasoned arguments.

And millennials want to whine about how boomers have all the jobs and all the money, when a lot of us aren't doing that well either. There's some reality for you, junior.


As a good 'Murican, you should know opportunity does not equal outcome.
 
2013-08-19 03:37:52 AM

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: As a 17 year old, we have to deal with a unique situation in American societal history that no previous generations had to contend with. We don't have the access to opportunities that our grandparents did, or the promise of high paying jobs out of high school, or the ability to get a higher education without taking out loans.

I tried to get a summer job, and the only one offered to me was a courier at my step-dad's real estate company. I would have been out walking during the hottest part of the day, and only making $15 per hour.

Excuse us if we're content to stay home and make an impact on the world through blogs and social media instead of working for slave wages so we can live some antiquated American dream.


www.jamspreader.com
 
2013-08-19 03:37:57 AM
Dow Jones Doom, epic troll. Can't believe I got sucked in like that.
It sounded so real!
 
2013-08-19 03:40:49 AM

quickdraw: Decades of propaganda aimed at making public transit seem like a desirable way to travel has finally paid off and now people complain about that too.


Decades of propaganda in support of public transit?

Are you aware of how much car companies spend annually on advertising?
 
2013-08-19 03:46:21 AM

Doc Daneeka: quickdraw: Decades of propaganda aimed at making public transit seem like a desirable way to travel has finally paid off and now people complain about that too.

Decades of propaganda in support of public transit?

Are you aware of how much car companies spend annually on advertising?


Plus, no matter how much public transit propaganda there may be, if there isn't a system in place, no one is going to use it.

I'd be willing to walk a block or three to a station on my regular commute (perhaps a bit higher for occasional trips), and that distance again at the end point, provided I can catch a subway that arrives and departs every 15 minutes or less.  I'll be damned if I'm going to walk a mile to a bus station, sit on a bus for an hour because of stops, and then walk that far again on the other side though.

When public transport can get you there faster and cheaper than driving, it wins out.  When it can't, it loses most of its appeal.
 
2013-08-19 03:53:26 AM

TuteTibiImperes: Doc Daneeka: quickdraw: Decades of propaganda aimed at making public transit seem like a desirable way to travel has finally paid off and now people complain about that too.

Decades of propaganda in support of public transit?

Are you aware of how much car companies spend annually on advertising?

Plus, no matter how much public transit propaganda there may be, if there isn't a system in place, no one is going to use it.

I'd be willing to walk a block or three to a station on my regular commute (perhaps a bit higher for occasional trips), and that distance again at the end point, provided I can catch a subway that arrives and departs every 15 minutes or less.  I'll be damned if I'm going to walk a mile to a bus station, sit on a bus for an hour because of stops, and then walk that far again on the other side though.

When public transport can get you there faster and cheaper than driving, it wins out.  When it can't, it loses most of its appeal.


This is what makes Portland so interesting. If you live in the right areas, you really don't need to use a car much. You may need a car, but you can easily adjust your living to minimize the need. I drive about 2000 miles a year in total (work, groceries, etc). I use the MAX train probably 1-3 week.
 
2013-08-19 03:54:08 AM

bborchar: Smackledorfer: bborchar: they think it's supposed to be easier because they have a degree.

Why shouldn't it be easier to find a job, or easier to find one with greater pay, when you have a degree?  Think really hard before you answer, and realize that it is in reality easier to find a job and earn more pay by having a degree (even a filthy libby arts one, if the statistics I last read were correct).

bborchar: I remember filling out my tax return that year where I made $6K. For the entire year

Oh, you are a liar, nm then. That is what, less than 20 hours a week at 8 bucks an hour?  I thought you were working full time? And you lived in Japan for a year and tasmania for a summer, all while working full time crappy jobs just to get by and once coming in at a 6k year?


Something smells trolly to me. I give you a 0/10 and the recommendation that you don't change lures so many times during a thread. Give one bait and action a chance for a few minutes and a little drifting time to cover some area with that method.

Japan- 2003, direct student exchange, since it was my major, and cost me no more than it did living in the states. I had a small stipend and a scholarship that paid for my round trip airfare.

Tasmania- 2004, oh, look at that- I had made friends in Japan and went and stayed with them the entire summer after my dad died. I charged my airfare and paid it off in about 6 months.

I made just over $6 an hour as a computer lab manager, but worked from 20-30 a week, which was considered full time on campus for students (we weren't allowed to work more). My sophomore year I had a second job, but I had to quit to go to Japan. I took out the minimum student loans for my tuition, and paid the rest if my expenses out of pocket. I ended up with less than 20K at the end of it, which is half paid off now, 7 years later. Could have completely paid it off, but we bought a house.

My apartment was in the crime laden area of town and cost me $260 a month. My car was a 1990 Buick, the same car I first bought in 1999 for $1000.

So no, I'm not trolling.


You never asked anyone for help but you had a scholarship and mooched off friends in japan? What a rough life your full time job was. I am sure you worked full time in japan too right?

Ohhh and you consider 20-30 hours full time? Lol.

Worked my way through college myself. Sometimes put in fifty hours, and I still wouldn't think of responding to a list of the job reality in our economy with 'all I can hear is waaaah'.
 
2013-08-19 03:54:11 AM

Sbdolan: Middle class really sucks now.


Middle class isn't what it used to be. Decades ago, a family could live comfortably on one salary, and you'd get an employer-provided pension so you wouldn't have to worry about retirement.

Nowadays, healthcare costs have skyrocketed, education costs have skyrocketed, transportation costs are higher, but middle class wages have stagnated (in fact, gone down taking inflation not account). A dual income is needed to make ends meet (which adds additional costs, like child care). And forget about a pension - better make sure that you're putting some money into a 401k, whether you can afford to do so or not.

A lot of people in this country think they're middle class, but they're really not. They're working class people living paycheck-to-paycheck and struggling just to get out of debt, much less get ahead in life.
 
2013-08-19 03:55:34 AM

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: As a 17 year old, we have to deal with a unique situation in American societal history that no previous generations had to contend with. We don't have the access to opportunities that our grandparents did, or the promise of high paying jobs out of high school, or the ability to get a higher education without taking out loans.

I tried to get a summer job, and the only one offered to me was a courier at my step-dad's real estate company. I would have been out walking during the hottest part of the day, and only making $15 per hour.

Excuse us if we're content to stay home and make an impact on the world through blogs and social media instead of working for slave wages so we can live some antiquated American dream.


I'd love to find a job that paid $15 an hour.
 
2013-08-19 03:57:14 AM
The problem with the economy is the consolidation of wealth in the hands of the few.  It simply can't function properly with the 1% investing in Chinese real estate instead of the poors and 'middle' classes spending money on services and products that have some sort of connection with the local economy.

Either we take it from them or make them spend their money at home. There is no other answer.
 
2013-08-19 03:58:37 AM
In 2002 I turned sixteen. My Mormon father handed over the keys to his 1998 Oldsmobile Royal. White. The seats were old school "couch" seats. Huge car with lots of "leg room." I didn't behave very Mormon-like as a result. Good times...
 
2013-08-19 03:58:46 AM

OgreMagi: Smackledorfer: OgreMagi: /no, I'm not calling for the people's control of the factor. That's the biggest circle of suck

Are you calling for less people's control of the factor, as you put it? Like, no or lower minimum wage perhaps, lower safety standards in the workplace, fewer worker protections, and/or a reduction in safety net? Because if you aren't calling for more, then what makes this spot we are at now some type of sweet spot?

Is your education so lacking that you don't recognize the phrase, "people's control of the factory" and what it means?  Well, in your defense I'll admit I got it slightly wrong.  It's "workers' control of the factory."  But same thing.


Oh. Factory. I was trying to riddle my way to wtf you meant by factor. My bad.

Between people, factor, and two a.m. I think a break is in order.

That said, your comment is still silly. There is plenty of room to regulate and tweak society without pulling the 'COMMUNISM ZOMG" card. Why jump to the hyperbole? Throwing around that card is as bad as godwinning.
 
2013-08-19 04:05:00 AM

bborchar: bingethinker: Stop trying to introduce reality-based thinking based on the way things currently are into this thread! Boomers want to whine about how millennials are supposedly moochers for not magically taking advantage of opportunities that aren't there anymore, not listen to reasoned arguments.

And millennials want to whine about how boomers have all the jobs and all the money, when a lot of us aren't doing that well either. There's some reality for you, junior.

My parents have been laid off from more jobs than I can remember...every retirement package they ever had went to keeping the house payments going during unemployment. Many boomers are probably looking at the same situation.


Getting back on track:
While every gen has its trials, this thread started about cars, and I don't see how it is up for debate that the costs for buying them, running them, and paying for the things they take you to have gone up every decade while wages have been stagnant. It is common sense that fewer kids would buy one.

Hell I am not even that old and I've seen gas go through the roof and cars get harder and harder to grease-monkey. I can hardly diagnose and replace my pcm. Multiple shops couldn't properly diagnose that. My dad's cars could be fixed by him and his father most of the time.
 
2013-08-19 04:07:15 AM

bborchar: Smackledorfer: bborchar: they think it's supposed to be easier because they have a degree.

Why shouldn't it be easier to find a job, or easier to find one with greater pay, when you have a degree?  Think really hard before you answer, and realize that it is in reality easier to find a job and earn more pay by having a degree (even a filthy libby arts one, if the statistics I last read were correct).

bborchar: I remember filling out my tax return that year where I made $6K. For the entire year

Oh, you are a liar, nm then. That is what, less than 20 hours a week at 8 bucks an hour?  I thought you were working full time? And you lived in Japan for a year and tasmania for a summer, all while working full time crappy jobs just to get by and once coming in at a 6k year?


Something smells trolly to me. I give you a 0/10 and the recommendation that you don't change lures so many times during a thread. Give one bait and action a chance for a few minutes and a little drifting time to cover some area with that method.

Japan- 2003, direct student exchange, since it was my major, and cost me no more than it did living in the states. I had a small stipend and a scholarship that paid for my round trip airfare.

Tasmania- 2004, oh, look at that- I had made friends in Japan and went and stayed with them the entire summer after my dad died. I charged my airfare and paid it off in about 6 months.

I made just over $6 an hour as a computer lab manager, but worked from 20-30 a week, which was considered full time on campus for students (we weren't allowed to work more). My sophomore year I had a second job, but I had to quit to go to Japan. I took out the minimum student loans for my tuition, and paid the rest if my expenses out of pocket. I ended up with less than 20K at the end of it, which is half paid off now, 7 years later. Could have completely paid it off, but we bought a house.

My apartment was in the crime laden area of town and cost me $260 a month. My car was a 1990 Buick, the same car I first bought in 1999 for $1000.

So no, I'm not trolling.


Psst, that is not a full-time job on the real world you seem to have a problem with. And again, try living on $6K in the Bay Area, or finding a $260 apartment.
 
2013-08-19 04:07:16 AM
I have a buddy who does a "Cannonball Run" race to Vegas each year and one of the rules is that you can't spend more than 2k on the car.
 
2013-08-19 04:16:31 AM
JorgiX: Psst, that is not a full-time job on the real world you seem to have a problem with. And again, try living on $6K in the Bay Area, or finding a $260 apartment.

This one time I toured a $260 apartment. It was... memorable. And that was the day I decided to stop being poor.
 
2013-08-19 04:24:01 AM

Voodoo_Stu: I've been thinking about going carless, but I have to ask any one who has:  How the heck do you get groceries home?


you do have hands?  most grocery stores have bags with handles.  if it's something particularly heavy, you can actually (politely) ask to have it double-bagged...  if you're really lucky you can just wave a magic wand and float everything home.
 
2013-08-19 04:26:22 AM

Jacobin: Voodoo_Stu: I've been thinking about going carless, but I have to ask any one who has:  How the heck do you get groceries home?

Just push them home in the shopping cart


you know that's theft, right?
 
2013-08-19 04:32:20 AM

cynicalminion: Jacobin: Voodoo_Stu: I've been thinking about going carless, but I have to ask any one who has:  How the heck do you get groceries home?

Just push them home in the shopping cart

you know that's theft, right?


Lots of car-less urbanites own their own collapsible carts for the express purpose of grocery shopping.

I've seen this question before, but I never had a problem getting groceries when I lived in Manhattan with no car. Just made several small stops per week for a few things each time, rather than a big grocery run once a week. Carrying a few bags a couple blocks is not that hard if you are in any kind of decent shape.

Also, there's FreshDirect, plus a lot of supermarkets offer home delivery, so that's an option too.
 
2013-08-19 04:35:34 AM
What bothers me the most about the economy is that people like me, who don't want or need much, still can't get what little we desire.

I live in a shed with an air conditioner and a solid internet connection. I'm mostly okay with this. I've never had much and I've learned to make do with what I've got. Only thing I'd really change is location and choice of food.

I do have a job cleaning condos for the rich and frivolous. Which I get all kinds of ridicule for. But it's the only job I was able to find after nearly two years of looking. I make roughly $300 a week, which is the most I've ever made from a job. When I worked retail I was lucky to walk away with half that.  But it's still not enough. Bills keep getting higher, and god damn I hope I never have any medical emergency because if I do I'm farked. I'm waiting for the day when a doc tells me I have cancer and I get to just go home and die.

I have to live off of spaghetti-o's and ramen because that $300 a week is eaten up by student debt and various bills. The only luxury I allow myself is cigarettes, because fark if I'm going to live a long and healthy life in this day and age. May as well enjoy myself.

So here I am sitting in a dank little shack, fighting off all manner of insect every night before bed, and I'm still fairly okay with that. Hell, I've considered eschewing the shack entirely for a nice tent down by a river.

But what then? Then I get to deal with all manner of police and citizens biatching and moaning because all I need out of life is shelter, some good food to eat, and some occasional entertainment. So I'm forced to work for just enough money to be slightly above homeless, just so people will leave me alone and not give me a hard time for being a poor. Which they still do.

We don't have options anymore. It's house, kids, fancy gadgets, or you're a failure at being human. Who are you to tell me that I'm a lazy entitled farkwit just because I don't want or need all the silly shiat you people buy to cram into those massive holes in your soul?  In a perfect world I'd be living out of an RV with a nice wifi signal and eating fish I caught daily from the nearby river. That's my dream. But I can't have it if I want to be a social animal. If I want to be a part of society I better buy a suit and bend over for the corporations who've convinced all of you that you need all your toys to be happy.

I'd save up money and do just what I want. Buy that RV and go live in some BLM land somewhere. But the initial investment into that lifestyle is pretty expensive and I can't keep money in my bank account long enough to really make such a plan viable. So all in all the world is farked and I'm just wasting time until I die.
 
2013-08-19 04:39:26 AM

Voodoo_Stu: Thanks for the answers.  I had to look up what Zipcar was, and it doesn't appear to be available in my city.  I tend to buy a lot of heavy, bulky groceries at once, so backpacks usually wouldn't work.  Personaly shopping carts eh...  I might look into that. Be honest, though.  Would I look like a hobo?  I don't exactly want to get hassled..

Any one put a trailer on a bike?


again, that is THEFT.   even if you bring it back, taking a shopping cart from a store off THEIR property, is theft.  look into getting something on wheels.  or just get one of those things they put kids in on the back of your bike.  and use it for groceries instead of a kid.
 
2013-08-19 04:43:05 AM
I got rid of my car last year.

If I added up every penny I've spent on cabs (and I take way too many cabs tbh, because I'm lazy) and train and bus fare (I live in Bay Area, good public transport) ... I still pay way way less than I was paying to keep my car.

It also takes me a fark of a lot longer to get anywhere. So there's that.
 
2013-08-19 04:45:10 AM

cynicalminion: Voodoo_Stu: Thanks for the answers.  I had to look up what Zipcar was, and it doesn't appear to be available in my city.  I tend to buy a lot of heavy, bulky groceries at once, so backpacks usually wouldn't work.  Personaly shopping carts eh...  I might look into that. Be honest, though.  Would I look like a hobo?  I don't exactly want to get hassled..

Any one put a trailer on a bike?

again, that is THEFT.   even if you bring it back, taking a shopping cart from a store off THEIR property, is theft.  look into getting something on wheels.  or just get one of those things they put kids in on the back of your bike.  and use it for groceries instead of a kid.


Again, owning your own shopping cart is not theft. Lots of people in cities use collapsible shopping carts to get groceries home.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/s/ref=is_s_ss_i_2_12?k=collapsible+grocer y +cart&sprefix=Collapsible+
 
2013-08-19 04:52:16 AM

TomD9938: JorgiX: it is almost impossible to find even the shiattiest of cars for under $1000


The first hundred of 2500 found on Minneapolis CraigsList search $999.00 and under (some are parts).

[snip]


and only 3 or 4  of those are 10 years old or less
 
2013-08-19 04:53:38 AM
Gas prices weren't 5 dollars a gallon, either.
 
2013-08-19 05:07:39 AM

Twitch Boy: Wait until this generation finally gets jobs, then looks in the mirror and sees 35 staring them in the face and realizes they never got to live out their youth.

Buy stock in BMW and Just For Men.  You're going to be able to see the midlife crisis from space.


They still won't be able to afford it.
 
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