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(Deadspin)   NCAA says former Marine must redshirt his freshman year in college football because he played organized football in the Marines. "Organized" because they wore uniforms and *gasp* kept score. Semper Fi, you jackasses   (deadspin.com) divider line 56
    More: Fail, NCAA, college football, Middle Tennessee State, intramural sports, freshman  
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1292 clicks; posted to Sports » on 18 Aug 2013 at 6:54 PM (49 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-08-18 02:52:32 PM
Okay, in English this time submitter.
 
2013-08-18 03:04:07 PM

gaslight: Okay, in English this time submitter.


What confused you?
 
2013-08-18 04:41:22 PM

gaslight: Okay, in English this time submitter.


Members of the military, active or otherwise, deserve special treatment. Rules that apply to everyone else shouldn't apply to them. It's why they fight, after all.
 
2013-08-18 04:47:22 PM
It's a Sun Belt school.  Good luck trying to get people to care.

\that conference exists solely to give big programs a cupcake that's technically not FCS
 
2013-08-18 05:00:31 PM
On one hand the NCAA has regulations about eligibility to level the playing field as much as possible.  Else you would have guys in their late 20s who could develop their skills in other leagues playing against 19/20/21 year old students.

On the other hand, it sounds like the NCAA used to have an exception for those who played in base leagues in the military, and somehow inadvertently deleted it when updating other regulations.
 
2013-08-18 05:01:49 PM
What the heck does redshirt mean? Die in a gruesome and totally predictable manner?
 
2013-08-18 05:05:12 PM

EvilEgg: What the heck does redshirt mean? Die in a gruesome and totally predictable manner?


It means you're allowed to practice/work-out with the team but not take the field in an actual game.  It preserves a year of eligibility and is traditionally used to allow freshman players to bulk up and build their fundamentals so that they can play the following four, or for medical reasons if a player is injured before or early in the season such that he won't be able to play again.

Typically a player only gets one redshirt year, but sometimes for medical purposes they'll allow a second.
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2013-08-18 05:11:30 PM
So, basically it's the "Everyone should worship me because I personally kept you from being Saddam Hussein's slave and having to speak Arabic" argument?
 
2013-08-18 06:32:37 PM

vpb: So, basically it's the "Everyone should worship me because I personally kept you from being Saddam Hussein's slave and having to speak Arabic" argument?


I see you clearly didn't RTFA because he's actually saying nothing of the sort, and might I say you really seeme to have an axe to grind with people who have served.
 
2013-08-18 07:03:03 PM
This would have made sense in 1918, when the marines from the Mare Island Naval Shipyard team won the Rose Bowl.  I'm not sure if intramural marine football is played at quite the same level today.
 
2013-08-18 07:04:52 PM
Why the f*ck would the NCAA be stupid enough to let this become a national story? There is no way they look good here.
 
2013-08-18 07:11:15 PM

Lost Thought 00: Why the f*ck would the NCAA be stupid enough to let this become a national story? There is no way they look good here.


The didn't think MTSU would have the balls.
 
2013-08-18 07:12:52 PM

Lost Thought 00: Why the f*ck would the NCAA be stupid enough to let this become a national story? There is no way they look good here.


Because technically correct is the best kind of correct


i.imgur.com

I imagine this is what the bureaucrats in the NCAA look like.
 
2013-08-18 07:19:34 PM

Gecko Gingrich: gaslight: Okay, in English this time submitter.

Members of the military, active or otherwise, deserve special treatment. Rules that apply to everyone else shouldn't apply to them. It's why they fight, after all.


Is your retardation normal genetic or did your mom drink heavily while she was pregnant with you?
 
2013-08-18 07:19:39 PM

Lost Thought 00: Why the f*ck would the NCAA be stupid enough to let this become a national story? There is no way they look good here.


They don't care.  They own college athletics.
 
2013-08-18 07:23:23 PM
Oh look. The NCAA has just pissed off the Marine Corps.

I hope you rules commissioners all sleep well on your beds of money from broadcast fees and kickbacks from the Bowl Conferences.

/and I hear the lawyers taste good with a little horseradish
 
2013-08-18 07:25:00 PM

vpb: So, basically it's the "Everyone should worship me because I personally kept you from being Saddam Hussein's slave and having to speak Arabic" argument?


No it's a "I was too dumb to realize the military wasn't my only hope to escape my podunk town" argument.
 
2013-08-18 07:31:22 PM

detroitdoesntsuckthatbad: vpb: So, basically it's the "Everyone should worship me because I personally kept you from being Saddam Hussein's slave and having to speak Arabic" argument?

No it's a "I was too dumb to realize the military wasn't my only hope to escape my podunk town" argument.


No it's a rule that would penalize you if you worked and played organized flag football in a rec league before you went to college. The fact it's a military thing only magnifies the recognition he would be getting.

This is literally one of the dumbest rules the NCAA could have come up with.
 
2013-08-18 07:35:36 PM
Can someone tell me what value the NCAA has?
 
2013-08-18 07:46:51 PM

2wolves: Lost Thought 00: Why the f*ck would the NCAA be stupid enough to let this become a national story? There is no way they look good here.

They don't care.  They own college athletics.


Yes, but this is the kind of thing that leads to Senators looking closely at your inner workings
 
2013-08-18 07:50:51 PM

Some Bass Playing Guy: Can someone tell me what value the NCAA has?


Somebody has to administer the logistics of collegiate athletics.  In order to maintain a level playing field there needs to be an unbiased non-profit organization to make sure everyone is using the same rule book, protect student athletes from predatory recruitment practices, make sure that wealthier schools don't abuse their position by buying players, enforce gender equity and opportunities for women's sports, enforce safety regulations, maintain records and statistical data, etc.

Sure, they go off the deep end on occasion, and sometimes their enforcement regarding rules violations can seem arbitrary, but they're also governing over 1,000 member institutions and over 20 different sports.

If the NCAA didn't do it, who would?
 
2013-08-18 07:53:26 PM

Some Bass Playing Guy: Can someone tell me what value the NCAA has?


Or to put it another way, since there is no law requiring any school to be a member of the NCAA, why are so many of them members if it is such an awful worthless organization? They can join the NAIA or start up their own organization but instead they freely choose to stay. It's almost as if the schools know something about dealing with the realities of collegiate athletic competition that you don't.
 
2013-08-18 07:57:17 PM

Lost Thought 00: 2wolves: Lost Thought 00: Why the f*ck would the NCAA be stupid enough to let this become a national story? There is no way they look good here.

They don't care.  They own college athletics.

Yes, but this is the kind of thing that leads to Senators looking closely at your inner workings


They're a registered nonprofit, as are all the members of Division I. The inner workings are pretty transparent, albeit still very corrupt.
 
2013-08-18 08:04:57 PM

EvilEgg: What the heck does redshirt mean? Die in a gruesome and totally predictable manner?



a "redshirt" is a player who can't play in official games, preserving a year of NCAA eligibility.

a "medical redshirt" is a player who played in an NCAA game, but due to a serious medical consdition that ay, or maynot, have occurred in an NCAA game, can get an extra year of of NCAA eligibility.

a "grayshirt" is an NCAA player who, for academic reasons, enrolls in the school but doesn't quite fit standards, but has limited eligibility per NCAA

a "reshirt", per Star Track, is an easily killable person who often provides plot exposition and drama

a purple shirt handles fuel on a Navy aircraft carrier

a blue shirt handles elevators and messages on a Navy aircraft carrier

a "blackshirt" is a person who plays defense for Nebraska


a "brownshirt is I JUST GODWINNED
 
2013-08-18 08:05:03 PM

EngineerAU: Some Bass Playing Guy: Can someone tell me what value the NCAA has?

Or to put it another way, since there is no law requiring any school to be a member of the NCAA, why are so many of them members if it is such an awful worthless organization? They can join the NAIA or start up their own organization but instead they freely choose to stay. It's almost as if the schools know something about dealing with the realities of collegiate athletic competition that you don't.


They want the sweet, sweet revenue. It would drop sharply if they left the NFL unless you had entire conferences leaving.

Your post comes off as a poor attempt at condescension which is even worse considering it appears you can't even fathom why they would stay.
 
2013-08-18 08:24:50 PM
The NCAA needs to be completely torn apart and re-organized. For starters, they've been seriously overstepping their bounds (PSU sanctions), they need to get out of the money-making business ($EC), and in general, they need to be cleansed of overzealous douchebaggary...
 
2013-08-18 08:28:06 PM

Some Bass Playing Guy: Can someone tell me what value the NCAA has?


<  0 x 10
 
2013-08-18 08:36:12 PM
I see no one else bothered to read up on the story. Here's a really informative post from r/cfb:

"Former NCAA compliance officer here. Thought I'd explain where this ruling is coming from and why his waiver will be granted.

First, from the article: "...graduated from Antioch High School in 2007, worked at the Nissan plant in Smyrna for a year and then joined the Marine Corps in August 2008..." This one small part of a tiny paragraph to give background on the player is *actually* the crux of the NCAA's ruling. It has NOTHING to do with his intramural activity and even less to do with his service to our country.

The rule in question is Bylaw in question is 14.2.3.2.1, which I will summarize for you because it is lengthy: A student must enroll at an institution within 1 year after graduating high school. The legislative intent of this rule is to prevent unfair competition by having guys out there that purposefully wait to enroll to gain muscle/age/ability. Think about the size that many student-athletes realize in their first year of football and imagine if they took a year on a regimented training program and still maintained eligibility.

Now, you say, "Hold on a second, smart guy! What about guys like Brandon Weeden, Russell Wilson, Chris Weinke or Ben Olson?" Well, the NCAA has exceptions that allow for kids to follow certain paths in life prior to competition in a specific sport. Most of us have heard of those first 3 names (they all played minor league baseball), but the 4th is the best example of this exception. Ben Olson, if you may remember, was a top QB recruit that decided to go on his mission after starting his career at BYU. Normally, this would halt the 5-year "ticking clock" rule for eligibility. Surprise! The NCAA exempts time spent on religious missions, foreign aid services, and military armed services. To prove I'm not lying...

"14.2.1.2 Service Exceptions to the Five-Year Rule: Time spent in the armed services, on official religious missions or with recognized foreign aid services of the U.S. government is excepted from the application of the five-year rule."

As a side note before we move forward, it's important to note that intramural sports are never counted towards eligibility. The NCAA sees those as purely recreational unless you doctor them somehow to replicate time in season or profit off the activities.

Pulling this altogether, if you made it this far, we get that the reason Mr. Rhodes is required to sit a year is because he waited over a year to join the Marines. Let's say he graduated in May of 2007. That means from May 2008 - August 2008 his clock started to tick. It's clearly unfortunate and the NCAA will surely remedy the situation with MTSU, but I figured I would at least attempt to explain what was going on better than the article did.

Bottom line: yes, the NCAA has flaws, but it also has purpose behind them. They aren't fair in many cases. The application of many rules are to prevent an unfair playing field. I'm not saying that I necessarily agree with all the NCAA has put forth. I just apply the laws as they're written and intended. Mr. Rhodes will get his eligibility and his justice.

EDIT: A few people asked about Men's Ice Hockey. The rule exempts Ice Hockey, Skiing, and Tennis. If you're interested in an actual professional's take on the matter instead of mainstream stuff I'd recommend reading the Bylaw Blog's take on what [could be done](http://www.athleticscholarships.net/2013/08/18/legislative-overs ight-leads-to-eligibility-issues-for-mtsus-rhodes.htm)"
 
2013-08-18 08:46:40 PM

EngineerAU: Some Bass Playing Guy: Can someone tell me what value the NCAA has?

Or to put it another way, since there is no law requiring any school to be a member of the NCAA, why are so many of them members if it is such an awful worthless organization? They can join the NAIA or start up their own organization but instead they freely choose to stay. It's almost as if the schools know something about dealing with the realities of collegiate athletic competition that you don't.


Could you be more of a condescending apologist for an organization that largely exists because nobody has had the balls to challenge the
status quo.
 
2013-08-18 09:00:57 PM
NCAA = No Class At All
 
2013-08-18 09:23:33 PM

UNC_Samurai: I see no one else bothered to read up on the story. Here's a really informative post from r/cfb:


Too bad no one will bother to read this because of their blind hate of the NCAA.

Like how people get all mad about them investigating guys with sob stories. THEY'RE INVESTIGATING TO MAKE SURE IT'S TRUE, IF SAID SOB STORY IS TRUE, HE'LL PROBABLY GET A WAIVER.
 
2013-08-18 09:27:02 PM

IAmRight: UNC_Samurai: I see no one else bothered to read up on the story. Here's a really informative post from r/cfb:

Too bad no one will bother to read this because of their blind hate of the NCAA.

Like how people get all mad about them investigating guys with sob stories. THEY'RE INVESTIGATING TO MAKE SURE IT'S TRUE, IF SAID SOB STORY IS TRUE, HE'LL PROBABLY GET A WAIVER.


This could have been resolved with 3 phone calls. The rule itself is of dubious value in my opinion anyway, but the fact it's taken this long and a national story to have the NCAA clear this up is plenty of reason to hate on the NFL.
 
2013-08-18 09:29:29 PM

FriarReb98: It's a Sun Belt school.  Good luck trying to get people to care.

\that conference exists solely to give big programs a cupcake that's technically not FCS


ULM 21 Alabama 14
 
2013-08-18 09:42:08 PM

OtherLittleGuy: Oh look. The NCAA has just pissed off the Marine Corps.

I hope you rules commissioners all sleep well on your beds of money from broadcast fees and kickbacks from the Bowl Conferences.

/and I hear the lawyers taste good with a little horseradish


Nah, the lawyers are too hard to clean.
 
2013-08-18 09:44:35 PM
Also, for the Deadspin whining about how "he could feel the cost"...bro, if you can't make it on the Post-9/11 GI Bill and all the benefits you got in the military, you fail at life.

Tuition and books are fully covered AND you get E-5 + dependent BAH each month.
 
2013-08-18 09:52:25 PM

IAmRight: Also, for the Deadspin whining about how "he could feel the cost"...bro, if you can't make it on the Post-9/11 GI Bill and all the benefits you got in the military, you fail at life.

Tuition and books are fully covered AND you get E-5 + dependent BAH each month.


He's living on roughly 1100 bucks a month with a wife and two small kids. Not exactly ideal, but I can see why he's complaining.
 
2013-08-18 10:19:30 PM

UNC_Samurai: I see no one else bothered to read up on the story. Here's a really informative post from r/cfb:

"Former NCAA compliance officer here..."


Thanks for posting that. I'm sure I'll see a post about this from my mother on Facebook (probably with a "proof Obama hates the military" prefix) and it's always nice to have a simple one-sentence fact that can shut it all down.
 
2013-08-18 10:32:50 PM

Lost Thought 00: Why the f*ck would the NCAA be stupid enough to let this become a national story? There is no way they look good here.


To distract from the Manziel story, where they're fixing to look worse.  Or the O'Bannon story, where they already do look worse.  Or the repetitive sub-concussive brain trauma story, which is going to end football as we know it over the next 20 years.
 
2013-08-18 11:15:34 PM
the ncaa sucks so much. just farking switch to the olympic model already...

/fark the ncaa
 
2013-08-18 11:30:54 PM

Lost Thought 00: Why the f*ck would the NCAA be stupid enough to let this become a national story? There is no way they look good here.


Because the NCAA is basically a corrupt clown college at this point.
 
2013-08-18 11:31:09 PM

rickythepenguin: EvilEgg: What the heck does redshirt mean? Die in a gruesome and totally predictable manner?


a "redshirt" is a player who can't play in official games, preserving a year of NCAA eligibility.

a "medical redshirt" is a player who played in an NCAA game, but due to a serious medical consdition that ay, or maynot, have occurred in an NCAA game, can get an extra year of of NCAA eligibility.

a "grayshirt" is an NCAA player who, for academic reasons, enrolls in the school but doesn't quite fit standards, but has limited eligibility per NCAA

a "reshirt", per Star Track, is an easily killable person who often provides plot exposition and drama

a purple shirt handles fuel on a Navy aircraft carrier

a blue shirt handles elevators and messages on a Navy aircraft carrier

a "blackshirt" is a person who plays defense for Nebraska


a "brownshirt is I JUST GODWINNED


This was farking awesome.
 
2013-08-18 11:34:10 PM

TemperedEdge: The NCAA needs to be completely torn apart and re-organized. For starters, they've been seriously overstepping their bounds (PSU sanctions), they need to get out of the money-making business ($EC), and in general, they need to be cleansed of overzealous douchebaggary...


Only Penn State fans think this.  Most of the rest of us were shocked that condoning and covering up repeated, serial child rape over the course of years would result in what they got at the absolute minimum.  I certainly personally know quite a few people who were shocked that Penn State is still allowed to play football in the NCAA.
 
2013-08-18 11:40:01 PM

A Fark Handle: the ncaa sucks so much. just farking switch to the olympic model already...

/fark the ncaa


The IOC, which has basically told the athletes competing in Russia to keep their damn mouths shut about gay rights 'or else' is suddenly something to be emulated?

rcf1105: Lost Thought 00: Why the f*ck would the NCAA be stupid enough to let this become a national story? There is no way they look good here.

Because the NCAA is basically a corrupt clown college at this point.


The NCAA does the bulk of what it needs to do extremely well.  It's a huge job, and thankless as no matter what they rule somebody is going to think they were screwed over.

In the case of the guy from the article, they have regulations about student athlete eligibility that include restrictions on what kind of leagues you can play in before enrolling in college.  It makes sense that they do that, and they're just enforcing their rules equally.

They do make exceptions based on individual cases, and they may do so still in this case.  The misplaced outrage is misplaced.
 
2013-08-18 11:43:07 PM

Some Bass Playing Guy: EngineerAU: Some Bass Playing Guy: Can someone tell me what value the NCAA has?

Or to put it another way, since there is no law requiring any school to be a member of the NCAA, why are so many of them members if it is such an awful worthless organization? They can join the NAIA or start up their own organization but instead they freely choose to stay. It's almost as if the schools know something about dealing with the realities of collegiate athletic competition that you don't.

Could you be more of a condescending apologist for an organization that largely exists because nobody has had the balls to challenge everyone is happy withthe status quo.


When it comes down to it, there's only a very, very, very small number of students who are harmed by the NCAA with they way they conduct business.  You get a small handful of football and basketball players who potentially could make more if there was an unrestricted minor league, players who are going to end up making millions in the NFL or NBA anyway.  At the same time, you have tens of thousands of other students playing NCAA sports who are getting free educations plus the $12,000-18,000 in cash payments a year students receive from their colleges.  For the 99% of NCAA athletes, the system is a great one.  For the 1% who are getting screwed -- they're going to make their millions in a year or two in the pros.
 
2013-08-18 11:47:13 PM

meanmutton: TemperedEdge: The NCAA needs to be completely torn apart and re-organized. For starters, they've been seriously overstepping their bounds (PSU sanctions), they need to get out of the money-making business ($EC), and in general, they need to be cleansed of overzealous douchebaggary...

Only Penn State fans think this.  Most of the rest of us were shocked that condoning and covering up repeated, serial child rape over the course of years would result in what they got at the absolute minimum.  I certainly personally know quite a few people who were shocked that Penn State is still allowed to play football in the NCAA.


Chalk me up as a PSU disliker that thinks the NCAA massively overstepped their boundaries. PSU certainly deserved to be punished for that, but the NCAA was the worst possible organization to do so. Multiple administrators were put under arrest and I believe the DOJ or whomever would be responsible should have pursued civil and criminal suits against them and the rest. However PSU basically just punished everyone who wasn't involved and their authority to do so was in a grey area to say the least. The LOI angle was never intended for a situation like this.
 
2013-08-18 11:48:35 PM

meanmutton: You get a small handful of football and basketball players who potentially could make more if there was an unrestricted minor league, players who are going to end up making millions in the NFL or NBA anyway.


And let's not act as though it's the NCAA's fault the NFL doesn't let anyone join their league until three years after HS. Or no one has developed a competitor to the NFL.

/or like it's the NCAA's fault the NBA decided to create more one-and-dones by eliminating the ability to be drafted straight out of HS
 
2013-08-18 11:54:49 PM

IAmRight: meanmutton: You get a small handful of football and basketball players who potentially could make more if there was an unrestricted minor league, players who are going to end up making millions in the NFL or NBA anyway.

And let's not act as though it's the NCAA's fault the NFL doesn't let anyone join their league until three years after HS. Or no one has developed a competitor to the NFL.

/or like it's the NCAA's fault the NBA decided to create more one-and-dones by eliminating the ability to be drafted straight out of HS


The NFL's rules make sense - a kid just out of high school would get killed (possibly literally) on the field against NFL players.

The NBA does allow people just out of HS don't they?  Isn't that what Lebron James did?  Or have they changed the rules?

Ideally I'd like both leagues to require players to actually graduate from their school before enlisting in the draft to help discourage football farms and schools that take on players they know aren't prepared for college life.
 
2013-08-19 12:10:04 AM

TuteTibiImperes: The NFL's rules make sense - a kid just out of high school would get killed (possibly literally) on the field against NFL players.


Nothing wrong with letting them figure that out themselves. Or, y'know, just not drafting 'em. But there were a couple of cases of guys who tried to turn pro after their sophomore years, a court ruled that the NFL wasn't able to do what they were doing...then a higher up court sided with the NFL and basically those guys got f*cked out of playing for a year and their skills atrophied and neither did anything in the NFL.

Still, I'd rather live in a world where Tim Tebow goes pro after his Heisman sophomore season and then people can appropriately hate him instead of hating him even though everyone by that point in the media was saying he was a terrible pick when he went and that he wasn't that good. I'd like to live in a world where Johnny Manziel can get his head torn off  and stuffed in his torso by guys faster than he is instead of having to hear about him for three years.

TuteTibiImperes: The NBA does allow people just out of HS don't they?  Isn't that what Lebron James did?  Or have they changed the rules?


They changed the rules because teams couldn't help but offer huge contracts to 18-year-olds who hadn't done anything against top competition yet and were clearly immature. As though the sh*tty teams consistently at the tops of drafts are capable of spotting talent even after college. (Remember when it was a question about Dwight Howard vs. Emeka Okafor? Howard had the athleticism but Okafor was a pro-ready guy? How'd that work out?)

/though I'll point out that sometimes careers are cut short because you get drafted by the wrong damn team
//HS guys had a pretty good hit rate IMO
 
2013-08-19 12:12:34 AM

TuteTibiImperes: Ideally I'd like both leagues to require players to actually graduate from their school before enlisting in the draft to help discourage football farms and schools that take on players they know aren't prepared for college life.


That doesn't discourage football farms at all - it encourages them because they know they get guys for four full years no matter how retarded they are. And it just encourages even more academic dishonesty.

Let the people pursuing football degrees go elsewhere (NFL, developmental league, whatever) and let the people who will actually use the scholarship to pursue, y'know, scholarship get that money and bring back the student-athlete in ALL positions.
 
2013-08-19 02:00:43 AM

FriarReb98: It's a Sun Belt school.  Good luck trying to get people to care.

\that conference exists solely to give big programs a cupcake that's technically not FCS


www.foxsportswisconsin.com
 
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