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(Russia Today)   In anticipation of a U.S. drone strike on Julian Assange, WikiLeaks has released 400 gigabytes of encrypted 'insurance' data online   (rt.com) divider line 133
    More: Interesting, Julian Assange, WikiLeaks, mass surveillance, Moscow's Sheremetyevo Airport  
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10262 clicks; posted to Main » on 18 Aug 2013 at 5:25 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



133 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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2013-08-18 02:46:19 PM
This drone's for you
 
2013-08-18 04:35:42 PM
Americans are too busy stuffing their fat faces and watching reality tv to care about amything.
 
2013-08-18 05:28:53 PM
julian assange should title the file obamabirthcerfiticate just to freak everybody out
 
2013-08-18 05:29:00 PM
Assange is a dick of the highest order.  He tricked some poor flunky to commit a major crime, then released massive amounts of sensitive material without caring one bit about the possible fallout.  In the process he endangered many lives.  And he did it because he wants to be James Bond.

Snowden, on the other hand, revealed a single fact.  The NSA is illegally spying on the American public.  Snowden is a hero.
 
2013-08-18 05:30:04 PM

OgreMagi: Assange is a dick of the highest order.  He tricked some poor flunky to commit a major crime, then released massive amounts of sensitive material without caring one bit about the possible fallout.  In the process he endangered many lives.  And he did it because he wants to be James Bond.

Snowden, on the other hand, revealed a single fact.  The NSA is illegally spying on the American public.  Snowden is a hero.


not sure if trolling....
 
2013-08-18 05:30:22 PM
That's a LOT of porn.
 
2013-08-18 05:32:34 PM

Smeggy Smurf: OgreMagi: Assange is a dick of the highest order.  He tricked some poor flunky to commit a major crime, then released massive amounts of sensitive material without caring one bit about the possible fallout.  In the process he endangered many lives.  And he did it because he wants to be James Bond.

Snowden, on the other hand, revealed a single fact.  The NSA is illegally spying on the American public.  Snowden is a hero.

not sure if trolling....


Are you still arguing that the NSA hasn't been spying on us, despite the MOUNTAIN of evidence that not only says they are doing exactly what Snowden revealed, but that it is MUCH worse than originally thought?  Really?
 
2013-08-18 05:33:04 PM

ontariolightning: Americans are too busy stuffing their fat faces and watching reality tv to care about amything.


Bread and circuses.

/also, you sound too fat and easily entertained to spell "anything" correctly
 
2013-08-18 05:34:06 PM
 
2013-08-18 05:35:56 PM
Assange is a tool as a person but what he's doing is only half making up for it. If he was really as noble as claimed he would have already released everything but the biggest leaks them saved them as the insurance policy 400gb reserve seems high
 
2013-08-18 05:36:24 PM

foo monkey: That's a LOT of porn.


For you maybe.
 
2013-08-18 05:36:41 PM

OgreMagi: Assange is a dick of the highest order.  He tricked some poor flunky to commit a major crime, then released massive amounts of sensitive material without caring one bit about the possible fallout.  In the process he endangered many lives.  And he did it because he wants to be James Bond.

Snowden, on the other hand, revealed a single fact.  The NSA is illegally spying on the American public.  Snowden is a hero.


Ummmm, he released lots of facts.

The revelations about what GCHQ have achieved with Project Tempora  are by far the biggest revelations (as in something massive and serious that was totally unknown by the public), but it's sort of been drowned out because it's not a US-based story.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tempora
 
2013-08-18 05:36:43 PM
So, is this blackmail or not?
 
2013-08-18 05:40:37 PM

Bungles: OgreMagi: Assange is a dick of the highest order.  He tricked some poor flunky to commit a major crime, then released massive amounts of sensitive material without caring one bit about the possible fallout.  In the process he endangered many lives.  And he did it because he wants to be James Bond.

Snowden, on the other hand, revealed a single fact.  The NSA is illegally spying on the American public.  Snowden is a hero.

Ummmm, he released lots of facts.

The revelations about what GCHQ have achieved with Project Tempora  are by far the biggest revelations (as in something massive and serious that was totally unknown by the public), but it's sort of been drowned out because it's not a US-based story.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tempora


Technically, that is part of the "spying on Americans" fact he revealed.  However, I will accept that it was not a single fact, but a whole lot of facts all related to government spying.
 
2013-08-18 05:41:13 PM

OgreMagi: Assange is a dick of the highest order.  He tricked some poor flunky to commit a major crime, then released massive amounts of sensitive material without caring one bit about the possible fallout.  In the process he endangered many lives.  And he did it because he wants to be James Bond.

Snowden, on the other hand, revealed a single fact.  The NSA is illegally spying on the American public.  Snowden is a hero.


With you up to snowden.  He revealed a single fact, fled, then kept the facts rolling to a country that's basically becoming our enemy again.  As it turns out, he was also stealing files well before that too - so it's not like he's a man with a crisis of conscience that finally went public. He sought out multiple opportunities to steal sensitive data, then tried to leak it as a trump card to win support. And, in doing so, he jeopardized the safety of our nation and it's intelligence community. He's a traitor like manning, pure and simple.
 
2013-08-18 05:42:05 PM

OgreMagi: Smeggy Smurf: OgreMagi: Assange is a dick of the highest order.  He tricked some poor flunky to commit a major crime, then released massive amounts of sensitive material without caring one bit about the possible fallout.  In the process he endangered many lives.  And he did it because he wants to be James Bond.

Snowden, on the other hand, revealed a single fact.  The NSA is illegally spying on the American public.  Snowden is a hero.

not sure if trolling....

Are you still arguing that the NSA hasn't been spying on us, despite the MOUNTAIN of evidence that not only says they are doing exactly what Snowden revealed, but that it is MUCH worse than originally thought?  Really?


Not at all.  In fact I'm more worried about what the DIA has been doing.  They're the ones who are supposed to be looking internally.  If the NSA has done this much internally what has the DIA done?  Nobody is asking those questions.
 
2013-08-18 05:42:22 PM
All of the files say is "all work and no play make Julian a dull boy" over and over and over
 
2013-08-18 05:43:11 PM

Somaticasual: OgreMagi: Assange is a dick of the highest order.  He tricked some poor flunky to commit a major crime, then released massive amounts of sensitive material without caring one bit about the possible fallout.  In the process he endangered many lives.  And he did it because he wants to be James Bond.

Snowden, on the other hand, revealed a single fact.  The NSA is illegally spying on the American public.  Snowden is a hero.

With you up to snowden.  He revealed a single fact, fled, then kept the facts rolling to a country that's basically becoming our enemy again.  As it turns out, he was also stealing files well before that too - so it's not like he's a man with a crisis of conscience that finally went public. He sought out multiple opportunities to steal sensitive data, then tried to leak it as a trump card to win support. And, in doing so, he jeopardized the safety of our nation and it's intelligence community. He's a traitor like manning, pure and simple.



Nothing Snowden released jeopardized the US.
 
2013-08-18 05:43:33 PM
I guess Assange was upset that people weren't looking at him anymore, so out comes the "insurance", implying that the US was going to kill him. What are they going to do, storm an embassy of an ally in an ally's country? Lob a missile at a major city?

No, this was Assange saying "LOOK AT ME!!!!" What a damn egomaniac. He's old news.
 
2013-08-18 05:43:45 PM
And we are supposed to completely trust a Russian news agency why, exactly?

/not that Fox Fluffy News is any moar trustworthy, mind you...
 
2013-08-18 05:43:55 PM

OgreMagi: Bungles: OgreMagi: Assange is a dick of the highest order.  He tricked some poor flunky to commit a major crime, then released massive amounts of sensitive material without caring one bit about the possible fallout.  In the process he endangered many lives.  And he did it because he wants to be James Bond.

Snowden, on the other hand, revealed a single fact.  The NSA is illegally spying on the American public.  Snowden is a hero.

Ummmm, he released lots of facts.

The revelations about what GCHQ have achieved with Project Tempora  are by far the biggest revelations (as in something massive and serious that was totally unknown by the public), but it's sort of been drowned out because it's not a US-based story.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tempora

Technically, that is part of the "spying on Americans" fact he revealed.  However, I will accept that it was not a single fact, but a whole lot of facts all related to government spying.


That no one is really surprised about nor cares in the post 9-11 america where everyone and your grandmother can get access to anything at any time on the public forum that is the internet.
 
2013-08-18 05:44:42 PM

Somaticasual: OgreMagi: Assange is a dick of the highest order.  He tricked some poor flunky to commit a major crime, then released massive amounts of sensitive material without caring one bit about the possible fallout.  In the process he endangered many lives.  And he did it because he wants to be James Bond.

Snowden, on the other hand, revealed a single fact.  The NSA is illegally spying on the American public.  Snowden is a hero.

With you up to snowden.  He revealed a single fact, fled, then kept the facts rolling to a country that's basically becoming our enemy again.  As it turns out, he was also stealing files well before that too - so it's not like he's a man with a crisis of conscience that finally went public. He sought out multiple opportunities to steal sensitive data, then tried to leak it as a trump card to win support. And, in doing so, he jeopardized the safety of our nation and it's intelligence community. He's a traitor like manning, pure and simple.


No, he didn't.  He threatened political careers but not the safety of the American people.
 
2013-08-18 05:45:14 PM
Oh and BTW you want privacy start with the US Post Office that is what the fourth covers.
 
2013-08-18 05:45:45 PM

BafflerMeal: Somaticasual: OgreMagi: Assange is a dick of the highest order.  He tricked some poor flunky to commit a major crime, then released massive amounts of sensitive material without caring one bit about the possible fallout.  In the process he endangered many lives.  And he did it because he wants to be James Bond.

Snowden, on the other hand, revealed a single fact.  The NSA is illegally spying on the American public.  Snowden is a hero.

With you up to snowden.  He revealed a single fact, fled, then kept the facts rolling to a country that's basically becoming our enemy again.  As it turns out, he was also stealing files well before that too - so it's not like he's a man with a crisis of conscience that finally went public. He sought out multiple opportunities to steal sensitive data, then tried to leak it as a trump card to win support. And, in doing so, he jeopardized the safety of our nation and it's intelligence community. He's a traitor like manning, pure and simple.

Nothing Snowden released jeopardized the US.


It made the president look bad.  Doesn't that count?
 
2013-08-18 05:46:53 PM

Atzanteol: Somaticasual: OgreMagi: Assange is a dick of the highest order.  He tricked some poor flunky to commit a major crime, then released massive amounts of sensitive material without caring one bit about the possible fallout.  In the process he endangered many lives.  And he did it because he wants to be James Bond.

Snowden, on the other hand, revealed a single fact.  The NSA is illegally spying on the American public.  Snowden is a hero.

With you up to snowden.  He revealed a single fact, fled, then kept the facts rolling to a country that's basically becoming our enemy again.  As it turns out, he was also stealing files well before that too - so it's not like he's a man with a crisis of conscience that finally went public. He sought out multiple opportunities to steal sensitive data, then tried to leak it as a trump card to win support. And, in doing so, he jeopardized the safety of our nation and it's intelligence community. He's a traitor like manning, pure and simple.

No, he didn't.  He threatened political careers but not the safety of the American people.


That's technically threatening behaviour.
 
2013-08-18 05:47:00 PM

alice_600: Oh and BTW you want privacy start with the US Post Office that is what the fourth covers.


You show a surprising amount of ignorance of our Constitution.
 
2013-08-18 05:47:00 PM
That's OK. We don't negotiate with terrorists. US blows away Assange, 'leaks publishes whatever, US identifies more people to 'disappear', etc.

I'm gathering the US has better resources and more patience.
 
2013-08-18 05:47:28 PM
So an organization designed to release secrets decides not to release secrets? Either the people have a right to know the information or they don't wikileaks make up your mind.
 
2013-08-18 05:48:24 PM

Somaticasual: OgreMagi: Assange is a dick of the highest order.  He tricked some poor flunky to commit a major crime, then released massive amounts of sensitive material without caring one bit about the possible fallout.  In the process he endangered many lives.  And he did it because he wants to be James Bond.

Snowden, on the other hand, revealed a single fact.  The NSA is illegally spying on the American public.  Snowden is a hero.

With you up to snowden.  He revealed a single fact, fled, then kept the facts rolling to a country that's basically becoming our enemy again.  As it turns out, he was also stealing files well before that too - so it's not like he's a man with a crisis of conscience that finally went public. He sought out multiple opportunities to steal sensitive data, then tried to leak it as a trump card to win support. And, in doing so, he jeopardized the safety of our nation and it's intelligence community. He's a traitor like manning, pure and simple.


Did Snowden really give classified info to the Chinese or Russians?
 
2013-08-18 05:48:30 PM
Russian State TV: Making internet nerds think they are "fighting the system" for years.
 
2013-08-18 05:49:07 PM
That's one file I wont be torrenting. fark being on NSAs watchlist for the rest of your life.
 
2013-08-18 05:50:51 PM

Surpheon: OgreMagi: Are you still arguing that the NSA hasn't been spying on us, despite the MOUNTAIN of evidence that not only says they are doing exactly what Snowden revealed, but that it is MUCH worse than originally thought?  Really?

No you stupid troll, he is alluding to the fact that Snowden also disclosed information about US operations against China - a clear and direct adversary who has very aggressive operations against the US. There was no whistleblowing value to this revelation, all it could do is hurt clearly constitutional US security efforts.


www.gearslutz.com
 
2013-08-18 05:51:11 PM

Slaxl: Somaticasual: OgreMagi: Assange is a dick of the highest order.  He tricked some poor flunky to commit a major crime, then released massive amounts of sensitive material without caring one bit about the possible fallout.  In the process he endangered many lives.  And he did it because he wants to be James Bond.

Snowden, on the other hand, revealed a single fact.  The NSA is illegally spying on the American public.  Snowden is a hero.

With you up to snowden.  He revealed a single fact, fled, then kept the facts rolling to a country that's basically becoming our enemy again.  As it turns out, he was also stealing files well before that too - so it's not like he's a man with a crisis of conscience that finally went public. He sought out multiple opportunities to steal sensitive data, then tried to leak it as a trump card to win support. And, in doing so, he jeopardized the safety of our nation and it's intelligence community. He's a traitor like manning, pure and simple.

Did Snowden really give classified info to the Chinese or Russians?


He gave it to the world press freely available online.... so yes?
 
2013-08-18 05:51:13 PM

OgreMagi: Ummmm, he released lots of facts.

The revelations about what GCHQ have achieved with Project Tempora  are by far the biggest revelations (as in something massive and serious that was totally unknown by the public), but it's sort of been drowned out because it's not a US-based story.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tempora

Technically, that is part of the "spying on Americans" fact he revealed.  However, I will accept that it was not a single fact, but a whole lot of facts all related to government spying.


So GCHQ is an American government agency, and British people are now Americans.

Thanks for clearing that up.

/I'm not suggesting that the NSA and GCHQ aren't all over each other's data, by the way.
 
2013-08-18 05:52:34 PM

iron de havilland: OgreMagi: Ummmm, he released lots of facts.

The revelations about what GCHQ have achieved with Project Tempora  are by far the biggest revelations (as in something massive and serious that was totally unknown by the public), but it's sort of been drowned out because it's not a US-based story.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tempora

Technically, that is part of the "spying on Americans" fact he revealed.  However, I will accept that it was not a single fact, but a whole lot of facts all related to government spying.

So GCHQ is an American government agency, and British people are now Americans.

Thanks for clearing that up.

/I'm not suggesting that the NSA and GCHQ aren't all over each other's data, by the way.


The GCHQ was sharing data about Americans with the US government, so it does fall under the "spying on Americans" umbrella.
 
2013-08-18 05:53:39 PM

spawn73: That's one file I wont be torrenting. fark being on NSAs watchlist for the rest of your life.


Enh, bark worse than bite and all that.  I posted crypto code in the clear overseas when the fed was super crazy about considering it 'munitions'.  Afterwards an email was sent to the white house telling them it'd been done.
 
2013-08-18 05:53:42 PM

BafflerMeal: Nothing Snowden released jeopardized the US.


Nor was it the least bit surprising to anyone who has been paying attention for the last few years. Doesn't seem like a very good reason to break your confidentiality agreement and become an international fugitive but I guess forethought isn't his strong point.
 
2013-08-18 05:53:57 PM

Slaxl: Somaticasual: OgreMagi: Assange is a dick of the highest order.  He tricked some poor flunky to commit a major crime, then released massive amounts of sensitive material without caring one bit about the possible fallout.  In the process he endangered many lives.  And he did it because he wants to be James Bond.

Snowden, on the other hand, revealed a single fact.  The NSA is illegally spying on the American public.  Snowden is a hero.

With you up to snowden.  He revealed a single fact, fled, then kept the facts rolling to a country that's basically becoming our enemy again.  As it turns out, he was also stealing files well before that too - so it's not like he's a man with a crisis of conscience that finally went public. He sought out multiple opportunities to steal sensitive data, then tried to leak it as a trump card to win support. And, in doing so, he jeopardized the safety of our nation and it's intelligence community. He's a traitor like manning, pure and simple.

Did Snowden really give classified info to the Chinese or Russians?


We don't know.  He probably gave them the same information he had released to the public.  Which, in the eyes of our government, is still giving them classified information even though they could have just downloaded it off the internet.

If he gave them more, then that's not a good thing since they are both not exactly friendly to us.
 
2013-08-18 05:54:08 PM

Kittypie070: And we are supposed to completely trust a Russian news agency why, exactly?

/not that Fox Fluffy News is any moar trustworthy, mind you...


Unfortunately, RT covers stories that the American corporate press doesn't think we should be interested in.
It reminds me of Radio Free Europe. Except it's now opposite day.
 
2013-08-18 05:54:48 PM
Awesome song bro :)   http://snd.sc/16ngm8N
 
2013-08-18 05:55:08 PM
Considering that the way to cover failure(s) is to classify everything as TS Code Phrase I can get too upset that the barn door was left open before the fire was started.
 
2013-08-18 05:55:45 PM

alice_600: Atzanteol: Somaticasual: OgreMagi: Assange is a dick of the highest order.  He tricked some poor flunky to commit a major crime, then released massive amounts of sensitive material without caring one bit about the possible fallout.  In the process he endangered many lives.  And he did it because he wants to be James Bond.

Snowden, on the other hand, revealed a single fact.  The NSA is illegally spying on the American public.  Snowden is a hero.

With you up to snowden.  He revealed a single fact, fled, then kept the facts rolling to a country that's basically becoming our enemy again.  As it turns out, he was also stealing files well before that too - so it's not like he's a man with a crisis of conscience that finally went public. He sought out multiple opportunities to steal sensitive data, then tried to leak it as a trump card to win support. And, in doing so, he jeopardized the safety of our nation and it's intelligence community. He's a traitor like manning, pure and simple.

No, he didn't.  He threatened political careers but not the safety of the American people.

That's technically threatening behaviour.


True - but not threatening the "safety of our nation."  In fact I'd argue he's made us more safe - look at all of the violations found at the NSA simply following their own guidelines.  And that will likely be the tip of the iceberg considering nobody is really cracking down on the NSA yet.

Terrorism isn't the only threat to the freedom of Americans.
 
2013-08-18 05:55:45 PM
can't, not can

My bad.
 
2013-08-18 05:56:48 PM

Slaxl: Somaticasual: OgreMagi: Assange is a dick of the highest order.  He tricked some poor flunky to commit a major crime, then released massive amounts of sensitive material without caring one bit about the possible fallout.  In the process he endangered many lives.  And he did it because he wants to be James Bond.

Snowden, on the other hand, revealed a single fact.  The NSA is illegally spying on the American public.  Snowden is a hero.

With you up to snowden.  He revealed a single fact, fled, then kept the facts rolling to a country that's basically becoming our enemy again.  As it turns out, he was also stealing files well before that too - so it's not like he's a man with a crisis of conscience that finally went public. He sought out multiple opportunities to steal sensitive data, then tried to leak it as a trump card to win support. And, in doing so, he jeopardized the safety of our nation and it's intelligence community. He's a traitor like manning, pure and simple.

Did Snowden really give classified info to the Chinese or Russians?


Probably not. Would the Chinese have let him go so quickly if they were getting fed good info? They would have probed what he told them, and come back to Snowden for more info after learning what they could. He leaked most of what he knew, which was the methods they were using to spy on other countries were being used on us. It can't actually be shocking to these other governments, and I doubt we're the only country doing it, although we might currently be the best at it.
 
2013-08-18 05:57:45 PM

OgreMagi: Assange is a dick of the highest order.  He tricked some poor flunky to commit a major crime, then released massive amounts of sensitive material without caring one bit about the possible fallout.  In the process he endangered many lives.  And he did it because he wants to be James Bond.

Snowden, on the other hand, revealed a single fact.  The NSA is illegally spying on the American public.  Snowden is a hero.


This !
 
2013-08-18 05:57:54 PM

2wolves: Considering that the way to cover failure(s) is to classify everything as TS Code Phrase I can get too upset that the barn door was left open before the fire was started.


The government is way too quick to classify anything and everything as secret or top secret. Because of the flood of so much stuff getting overly classified, they came up with a document that outlines the criteria to classify documents.  That document was classified as secret.  D'OH!
 
2013-08-18 05:58:05 PM

Vectron: Unfortunately, RT covers stories that the American corporate press doesn't think we should be interested in.
It reminds me of Radio Free Europe. Except it's now opposite day.


So does AJE. I'd still trust AJE far more than RT.
 
2013-08-18 05:58:44 PM

Atzanteol: Somaticasual: OgreMagi: Assange is a dick of the highest order.  He tricked some poor flunky to commit a major crime, then released massive amounts of sensitive material without caring one bit about the possible fallout.  In the process he endangered many lives.  And he did it because he wants to be James Bond.

Snowden, on the other hand, revealed a single fact.  The NSA is illegally spying on the American public.  Snowden is a hero.

With you up to snowden.  He revealed a single fact, fled, then kept the facts rolling to a country that's basically becoming our enemy again.  As it turns out, he was also stealing files well before that too - so it's not like he's a man with a crisis of conscience that finally went public. He sought out multiple opportunities to steal sensitive data, then tried to leak it as a trump card to win support. And, in doing so, he jeopardized the safety of our nation and it's intelligence community. He's a traitor like manning, pure and simple.

No, he didn't.  He threatened political careers but not the safety of the American people.


He directly threatened the safety not with the PRISM leak, but by debriefing the russian authorities on other fronts. Theres a chance I'm wrong, but russia would have no reason to be so cordial right now if he wasn't cooperating. And they will use every scrap of information thrown, much like we debrief defectors ourselves.
 
2013-08-18 06:00:33 PM

Somaticasual: russia would have no reason to be so cordial right now if he wasn't cooperating


Does it annoy the US, particularly Obama? If so than Russia has a reason to do it. Putin is still upset Obama got gym access at the summit and he had to swim in the lake.
 
2013-08-18 06:01:20 PM

spawn73: That's one file I wont be torrenting. fark being on NSAs watchlist for the rest of your life.


That's a good little citizen.  Now go watch some reality TV-- You've earned it.
 
2013-08-18 06:02:05 PM
OgreMagi: ... but that it is MUCH worse than originally thought?  Really?

It is exactly as bad as those of us who have been paying attention have been saying for years. I was not at all surprised.
 
2013-08-18 06:02:23 PM

Carth: BafflerMeal: Nothing Snowden released jeopardized the US.

Nor was it the least bit surprising to anyone who has been paying attention for the last few years. Doesn't seem like a very good reason to break your confidentiality agreement and become an international fugitive but I guess forethought isn't his strong point.


Carth: Slaxl: Somaticasual: OgreMagi: Assange is a dick of the highest order.  He tricked some poor flunky to commit a major crime, then released massive amounts of sensitive material without caring one bit about the possible fallout.  In the process he endangered many lives.  And he did it because he wants to be James Bond.

Snowden, on the other hand, revealed a single fact.  The NSA is illegally spying on the American public.  Snowden is a hero.

With you up to snowden.  He revealed a single fact, fled, then kept the facts rolling to a country that's basically becoming our enemy again.  As it turns out, he was also stealing files well before that too - so it's not like he's a man with a crisis of conscience that finally went public. He sought out multiple opportunities to steal sensitive data, then tried to leak it as a trump card to win support. And, in doing so, he jeopardized the safety of our nation and it's intelligence community. He's a traitor like manning, pure and simple.

Did Snowden really give classified info to the Chinese or Russians?

He gave it to the world press freely available online.... so yes?


So... no? What he shared to the world publicly was, as you say, unsurprising, and frankly as a result it jeopardised nothing. People make it sound like he fled, went to China and Russia and divulged to them more than he divulged to the public. That would be an issue, but what he shared publicly shouldn't make him an enemy of the American people, just the American government. If I was American i'd be more concerned that the interests of the people and the government don't align. However I am British, so I am more concerned that the interests of our people and our government don't align. This is why I don't want a federalised Europe. We need our old rivalries to lead to war whenever one starts acting authoritarian, rather than all uniting to act uniformly authoritarian.

/tangent
 
2013-08-18 06:02:42 PM

OgreMagi: alice_600: Oh and BTW you want privacy start with the US Post Office that is what the fourth covers.

You show a surprising amount of ignorance of our Constitution.


Maybe I do but, here's the bigger question. What can we do? Years ago I would have been angry about this because I thought that everything was black and white if we did it this way. Don't get me wrong I do know my rights but I also know there are a lot of gray areas in this world and sometimes life isn't fair or just. I want this job I am the best at what I do. But this other candidate will get it possibly because they have gone to a better school and have a better appearance or because they smelled like a cool mountain breeze. As Sinatra would sing that's life.
 
2013-08-18 06:05:13 PM

alice_600: OgreMagi: alice_600: Oh and BTW you want privacy start with the US Post Office that is what the fourth covers.

You show a surprising amount of ignorance of our Constitution.

Maybe I do but, here's the bigger question. What can we do? Years ago I would have been angry about this because I thought that everything was black and white if we did it this way. Don't get me wrong I do know my rights but I also know there are a lot of gray areas in this world and sometimes life isn't fair or just. I want this job I am the best at what I do. But this other candidate will get it possibly because they have gone to a better school and have a better appearance or because they smelled like a cool mountain breeze. As Sinatra would sing that's life.


When it comes to the government, what you can do is not tolerate it.  Make it known to your elected officials that it is not acceptable government behavior.  Of course, they won't listen.  Which is why I never vote for a republican or a democrat.  Those two parties ARE the problem.

As for the perfect job, etc.  Welcome to my world.  :D
 
2013-08-18 06:05:40 PM

OgreMagi: iron de havilland: OgreMagi: Ummmm, he released lots of facts.

The revelations about what GCHQ have achieved with Project Tempora  are by far the biggest revelations (as in something massive and serious that was totally unknown by the public), but it's sort of been drowned out because it's not a US-based story.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tempora

Technically, that is part of the "spying on Americans" fact he revealed.  However, I will accept that it was not a single fact, but a whole lot of facts all related to government spying.

So GCHQ is an American government agency, and British people are now Americans.

Thanks for clearing that up.

/I'm not suggesting that the NSA and GCHQ aren't all over each other's data, by the way.

The GCHQ was sharing data about Americans with the US government, so it does fall under the "spying on Americans" umbrella.


I'm really not sure how much of the data from GCHQ relates to Americans.

In truth, the only posts I made in earlier Snowden threads were references to Catch-22, so I really haven't studied it out.

I think we are both in agreement that the NSA and GCHQ are quite promiscuous in their data-sharing with each other, though?
 
2013-08-18 06:05:55 PM
These whistle blowers are heroes. They should each have a statue at the Washington Monument with the names of the president(s) who persecuted them carved in below their feet in a place of shame.
 
2013-08-18 06:06:56 PM
Still not enough shock and horror that GCHQ is essentially TIVOing THE ENTIRE INTERNET, FROM FACEBOOK CHATS TO EMAILS.
 
2013-08-18 06:07:09 PM
Yeah, but like 200 gigs of that is gay pr0n blueray rips....
 
2013-08-18 06:07:32 PM

Atzanteol: alice_600: Atzanteol: Somaticasual: OgreMagi: Assange is a dick of the highest order.  He tricked some poor flunky to commit a major crime, then released massive amounts of sensitive material without caring one bit about the possible fallout.  In the process he endangered many lives.  And he did it because he wants to be James Bond.

Snowden, on the other hand, revealed a single fact.  The NSA is illegally spying on the American public.  Snowden is a hero.

With you up to snowden.  He revealed a single fact, fled, then kept the facts rolling to a country that's basically becoming our enemy again.  As it turns out, he was also stealing files well before that too - so it's not like he's a man with a crisis of conscience that finally went public. He sought out multiple opportunities to steal sensitive data, then tried to leak it as a trump card to win support. And, in doing so, he jeopardized the safety of our nation and it's intelligence community. He's a traitor like manning, pure and simple.

No, he didn't.  He threatened political careers but not the safety of the American people.

That's technically threatening behaviour.

True - but not threatening the "safety of our nation."  In fact I'd argue he's made us more safe - look at all of the violations found at the NSA simply following their own guidelines.  And that will likely be the tip of the iceberg considering nobody is really cracking down on the NSA yet.

Terrorism isn't the only threat to the freedom of Americans.


Why is it whenever I think of this whole Snowden, Assange and NSA thing I keep thinking of Archer and ISIS?
 
2013-08-18 06:07:39 PM

iron de havilland: OgreMagi: iron de havilland: OgreMagi: Ummmm, he released lots of facts.

The revelations about what GCHQ have achieved with Project Tempora  are by far the biggest revelations (as in something massive and serious that was totally unknown by the public), but it's sort of been drowned out because it's not a US-based story.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tempora

Technically, that is part of the "spying on Americans" fact he revealed.  However, I will accept that it was not a single fact, but a whole lot of facts all related to government spying.

So GCHQ is an American government agency, and British people are now Americans.

Thanks for clearing that up.

/I'm not suggesting that the NSA and GCHQ aren't all over each other's data, by the way.

The GCHQ was sharing data about Americans with the US government, so it does fall under the "spying on Americans" umbrella.

I'm really not sure how much of the data from GCHQ relates to Americans.

In truth, the only posts I made in earlier Snowden threads were references to Catch-22, so I really haven't studied it out.

I think we are both in agreement that the NSA and GCHQ are quite promiscuous in their data-sharing with each other, though?


I'm sure the NSA and GCHQ are so close that they are having sex without a condom.  Except we're the ones getting farked.
 
2013-08-18 06:08:39 PM

Slaxl: So... no? What he shared to the world publicly was, as you say, unsurprising, and frankly as a result it jeopardised nothing. People make it sound like he fled, went to China and Russia and divulged to them more than he divulged to the public. That would be an issue, but what he shared publicly shouldn't make him an enemy of the American people, just the American government. If I was American i'd be more concerned that the interests of the people and the government don't align. However I am British, so I am more concerned that the interests of our people and our government don't align. This is why I don't want a federalised Europe. We need our old rivalries to lead to war whenever one starts acting authoritarian, rather than all uniting to act uniformly authoritarian.

/tangent


Unfortunately classified data doesn't work that way in the US. If you have a security clearance and you say information that is classified, even if it is available from other means, they can prosecute you for it.

For example. Say one of the 16 intelligence agencies  writes a  report and in it they say "the sky is blue" and somehow the report ends up classified Top Secret. Now this information is painfully obvious to anyone and shouldn't actually be classified. However, if you have a security clearance and release the page of the report that says "the sky is blue" you will still lose your job, and possibility get prosecuted for releasing classified information without authorization.

This caused a big problem when the leak first happened because no one with a security clearance was allowed to comment on the leak without approval so you'd see inane discussions on TV where they try to talk about the subject without actually addressing the specific points released.

Also if you release information to wikileaks,  it is published online, and then somehow ends up in Al Qaeda's hands the government will try to prosecute you for aiding the enemy even though you never directly gave them any information.
 
2013-08-18 06:08:50 PM

OgreMagi: alice_600: OgreMagi: alice_600: Oh and BTW you want privacy start with the US Post Office that is what the fourth covers.

You show a surprising amount of ignorance of our Constitution.

Maybe I do but, here's the bigger question. What can we do? Years ago I would have been angry about this because I thought that everything was black and white if we did it this way. Don't get me wrong I do know my rights but I also know there are a lot of gray areas in this world and sometimes life isn't fair or just. I want this job I am the best at what I do. But this other candidate will get it possibly because they have gone to a better school and have a better appearance or because they smelled like a cool mountain breeze. As Sinatra would sing that's life.

When it comes to the government, what you can do is not tolerate it.  Make it known to your elected officials that it is not acceptable government behavior.  Of course, they won't listen.  Which is why I never vote for a republican or a democrat.  Those two parties ARE the problem.

As for the perfect job, etc.  Welcome to my world.  :D


Did it done it need to move on to something else so the people invloved don't get fame.
 
2013-08-18 06:09:30 PM

OgreMagi: Assange is a dick of the highest order.  He tricked some poor flunky to commit a major crime, then released massive amounts of sensitive material without caring one bit about the possible fallout.  In the process he endangered many lives.  And he did it because he wants to be James Bond.

Snowden, on the other hand, revealed a single fact.  The NSA is illegally spying on the American public.  Snowden is a hero.


So the dude that exposes dipshiatary that unethically affects Americans is cool but the dude that exposes dipshiatary that affects non-Americans is a dick of the highest order.

/Do you even ethics bro?
 
2013-08-18 06:09:35 PM

OgreMagi: 2wolves: Considering that the way to cover failure(s) is to classify everything as TS Code Phrase I can get too upset that the barn door was left open before the fire was started.

The government is way too quick to classify anything and everything as secret or top secret. Because of the flood of so much stuff getting overly classified, they came up with a document that outlines the criteria to classify documents.  That document was classified as secret.  D'OH!


Yes, I know, which is why I corrected my comment.
 
2013-08-18 06:09:53 PM
I sometimes wonder if we haven't passed the point where, like in the movie "Men in Black", the real journalism is in the supermarket tabloids.

/ who the hell really knows if batboy really exists or not?
 
2013-08-18 06:10:08 PM
Who wants cupcakes?
 
2013-08-18 06:10:10 PM
Laura Poitris has a lengthy article out that clarifies a lot.
 
2013-08-18 06:11:20 PM

alice_600: Who wants cupcakes?


Even the cupcakes are a lie.
 
2013-08-18 06:12:45 PM

Nick Nostril: I sometimes wonder if we haven't passed the point where, like in the movie "Men in Black", the real journalism is in the supermarket tabloids.

/ who the hell really knows if batboy really exists or not?


Unfortunatly those went out of business years ago. I was sad I wanted to work for them and write about how giant robotic aliens fled their war torn planet and came here for sanctuary form their enemies and now grow crops and raise livestock to pay for their fuel and upkeep.
 
2013-08-18 06:13:45 PM

SpdrJay: Yeah, but like 200 gigs of that is gay pr0n blueray rips....


This is Assange. I'm guessing all 400 gigs is teh gay pr0ns.

/ NTTAWWT
 
2013-08-18 06:18:13 PM
Insurance policy against who or what?
And does who or why know that Assange took out this "insurance" policy?
Assuming it's the US government, blackmailing them is never a good idea.
 
2013-08-18 06:20:58 PM

alice_600: Nick Nostril: I sometimes wonder if we haven't passed the point where, like in the movie "Men in Black", the real journalism is in the supermarket tabloids.

/ who the hell really knows if batboy really exists or not?

Unfortunatly those went out of business years ago. I was sad I wanted to work for them and write about how giant robotic aliens fled their war torn planet and came here for sanctuary form their enemies and now grow crops and raise livestock to pay for their fuel and upkeep.


Well, there it is. That's the conspiracy. The gummint drove them out of bidness so they could stuff our minds with their own disinformation via Faux News and PMS-NBC. It's actually a pretty brilliant plan.

This Assange is just a boil on their collective asses.
 
2013-08-18 06:24:49 PM

foo monkey: That's a LOT of porn.


Seven zettabytes?

static.comicvine.com
 
2013-08-18 06:25:45 PM
Ah, the future. Who would have imagined a nerdy black man would be president, ordering killer flying robots to asplode a pompous twit over computer things?
 
2013-08-18 06:27:12 PM
It isn't like he was carrying the information on his person this whole time subby. They're worried about a raid, as well they should be.
 
2013-08-18 06:29:20 PM
The encrypted documents detail Dick Cheney's sexual relationships with Central American boys in trysts that were arranged by Rush Limbaugh.
 
2013-08-18 06:30:28 PM

Surool: It isn't like he was carrying the information on his person this whole time subby. They're worried about a raid, as well they should be.



A drone strike on an embassy in central London? That is not going to happen, no matter how silly this gets.
 
2013-08-18 06:31:36 PM

OgreMagi: Assange is a dick of the highest order.  He tricked some poor flunky to commit a major crime, then released massive amounts of sensitive material without caring one bit about the possible fallout.  In the process he endangered many lives.  And he did it because he wants to be James Bond.

Snowden, on the other hand, revealed a single fact.  The NSA is illegally spying on the American public.  Snowden is a hero.


Assange also revealed war crimes. And, the only people he endangered are people who are participating in wars of aggression.
 
2013-08-18 06:36:50 PM
b.vimeocdn.com : It's OK, Rand Paul will save him
 
2013-08-18 06:37:45 PM
Wait, you mean that something is going to happen in 37 days?
 
2013-08-18 06:42:09 PM

alice_600: but, here's the bigger question. What can we do?


Just let the government and corporations know everything about your life. It would help our war efforts if you were to give all of your money to the banks as well. Please do your part, citizen.
 
2013-08-18 06:43:35 PM

2wolves: alice_600: Who wants cupcakes?

Even the cupcakes are a lie.


I wonder if we are really a lie like in the matrix.
 
2013-08-18 06:52:47 PM
Resorting to blackmail is a sure sign you're legitimate!!
 
2013-08-18 06:52:53 PM
Before external hard drives and such, I used to be impressed by 400 gigabytes of data.

Now, not so much. Wake me up when it's a terabyte... or when September ends. Whichever comes first.
 
2013-08-18 06:59:30 PM
Is this the Kraken?
 
2013-08-18 07:02:28 PM

hinten: Insurance policy against who or what?
And does who or why know that Assange took out this "insurance" policy?
Assuming it's the US government, blackmailing them is never a good idea.


The last time Mr. Assange did something like this, the torrent was an encrypted archive filled with unredacted classified documents, with the implied threat that if the U.S. did anything to him, one of his trusted lieutenants would release the decryption key in retaliation.  Which would put American assets all over the world in mortal danger (just imagine what the Taliban would do if it got the names of a few CIA informants).

Unfortunately, that didn't work out so well, because one of his trusted lieutenants was incompetent and leaked the decryption key before anything had actually happend to Mr. Assange.
 
2013-08-18 07:07:12 PM

Evil High Priest: alice_600: but, here's the bigger question. What can we do?

Just let the government and corporations know everything about your life. It would help our war efforts if you were to give all of your money to the banks as well. Please do your part, citizen.


Still doesn't answer my question. Granted I use a credit union and have for years but none the less that's still technically a bank and many people need that bank to help save for retirement and cash checks so I can feed myself and my family.
I cannot stop using gas because I need a car to drive me 20 miles away to work everyday and I can't bike everywhere because it's just not a safe thing to do alone.
It's not like we can just stop using the World Wide Web. It's not like anything we can do will make a strong impact.
So tell me what more do you activists want from the average American with kids, a mortgage and a car payment? Want us to live in mud huts and wear organic leaves for clothing and eat what ever we find on the ground and if you get sick we just drink bull's blood because that's what the old fashion cavemen did? Do you? For better for worse modern life is so far been the best thing ever! It has a lot of gray areas it has a lot of stuff that may or may not ever happen. But god damn it can we just all shut up and relax and not worry about offending and hurting some farking moron who weight 440lbs and smells like a toilet because of farking political correctness privilege bull shiat they saw on tumblr!
 
2013-08-18 07:13:00 PM

BafflerMeal: Somaticasual: OgreMagi: Assange is a dick of the highest order.  He tricked some poor flunky to commit a major crime, then released massive amounts of sensitive material without caring one bit about the possible fallout.  In the process he endangered many lives.  And he did it because he wants to be James Bond.

Snowden, on the other hand, revealed a single fact.  The NSA is illegally spying on the American public.  Snowden is a hero.

With you up to snowden.  He revealed a single fact, fled, then kept the facts rolling to a country that's basically becoming our enemy again.  As it turns out, he was also stealing files well before that too - so it's not like he's a man with a crisis of conscience that finally went public. He sought out multiple opportunities to steal sensitive data, then tried to leak it as a trump card to win support. And, in doing so, he jeopardized the safety of our nation and it's intelligence community. He's a traitor like manning, pure and simple.


Nothing Snowden released jeopardized the US.


Provided expanded information on tactics and methodology for acquiring information.  This allows assumptions to be confirmed, current strategies to be revised, and potential limitations to be exposed.  So yes, I would say that the leaks increased risk or created additional danger, thereby signalling that the release jeopardized the US, and other nations around the world.
 
2013-08-18 07:17:53 PM

ghare: OgreMagi: ... but that it is MUCH worse than originally thought?  Really?

It is exactly as bad as those of us who have been paying attention have been saying for years. I was not at all surprised.


Wow man good for you. Its cool that you knew all about it buddy. Too bad you had no proof to back it up though. I'm sure no one thought you were some kind of conspiracy theorist because you're so in the know. They all trust gary. This dude's got the inside track.
 
2013-08-18 07:20:54 PM
It must not be terribly useful information for the public, or he'd be a dick for not letting us know what it is.
 
2013-08-18 07:23:31 PM
Deleted for name calling? "Stupid troll" (immediately supported by verifiable evidence for my contempt)?  Seriously mods?
 
2013-08-18 07:26:36 PM
Assange is a sideshow  in every way even as far as wikileaks itself goes.  Far as them 'holding' stuff in reserve, while technically they've made it their mission to present and publish information brought to them without involving themselves by making choices about it, in reality some of it does come down to making value judgements.  Is the information real (at least insofar as verifying legitimate source), does it have any useful impact to anyone anywhere to release it, etc.  Otherwise they just become a clearing house for conspiracy buffs and people looking to sling confidential dirt.
 
2013-08-18 07:26:49 PM

bojon: Laura Poitris has a lengthy article out that clarifies a lot.


What kind?
 
2013-08-18 07:34:43 PM

Hermione_Granger: Before external hard drives and such, I used to be impressed by 400 gigabytes of data.

Now, not so much. Wake me up when it's a terabyte... or when September ends. Whichever comes first.


400 gig is still a crapload of files, especially if you're talking documents like Word docs, pdfs, spreadsheets, etc. Video files and games are the bigger space hogs.

Pages per Megabyte/Gigabyte Calculator
 
2013-08-18 07:35:31 PM
BQ SU9EQTO=DRC]!NYOUOkOVTLTI)N
gE!IURE TOi$:6D`9UOURbOV^{Tj;E
BX '3R\2T%[DSINK @/oR qVrLTIjQ
y,DSURu BOk5O,"K YOtR8OVALnbqE
GE m,R,1TI D*IDK _OBi 9UtLTINU
 
2013-08-18 07:35:46 PM

OgreMagi: Snowden, on the other hand, revealed a single fact.  The NSA is illegally spying on the American public.  Snowden is a hero.


Dude, get your head out of your ass. Google is spying on you. FARK is spying on you. Amazon is spying. Grocery stores, credit card companies, cell providers, they are all spying on you.  Your farking anti-spyware program is spying on you. Snowden did not tell you anything you don't already know. However, what he did do was reveal information to other governments and organizations in an effort to harm and disadvantage his own country. That is why he fled the country. He broke our laws against being a spy and traitor aiding foreign governments and organizations, which is exactly what he did.

Couldn't Snowden have served his so-called "public service" by publishing an article or a book which informed us that the government was spying on us?  Maybe he would be a messenger for policy change. He could have started a discussion. Instead he copied and took actual documents and sensitive information and handed it to foreign agents. That is different. He is a lot of things, but he's certainly no hero.
 
2013-08-18 07:36:45 PM

Surpheon: Deleted for name calling? "Stupid troll" (immediately supported by verifiable evidence for my contempt)?  Seriously mods?


i102.photobucket.com

Against the trolls, there can be no victory.  We have only one choice.  We must join with them.

It would be wise, my old friend.
 
2013-08-18 07:43:46 PM

OgreMagi: Assange is a dick of the highest order.  He tricked some poor flunky to commit a major crime, then released massive amounts of sensitive material without caring one bit about the possible fallout.  In the process he endangered many lives.  And he did it because he wants to be James Bond.

Snowden, on the other hand, revealed a single fact.  The NSA is illegally spying on the American public.  Snowden is a hero.


It's not illegal though. The way the Patriot Act was written was so vague that they just have to suspect you are up to something, but don't need to base that on anything.

So one could just argue that we are all suspects that need to be monitored.
 
2013-08-18 07:43:50 PM

OgreMagi: Are you still arguing that the NSA hasn't been spying on us, despite the MOUNTAIN of evidence that not only says they are doing exactly what Snowden revealed, but that it is MUCH worse than originally thought?  Really?


Strawman does not count as trolling

Come on Ogre, try harder

You remember when you could get/try hard right ?
 
2013-08-18 07:59:44 PM

Bungles: The revelations about what GCHQ have achieved with Project Tempora


Now I'm hungry for Japanese.

/American
 
2013-08-18 08:07:54 PM

Somaticasual: With you up to snowden. He revealed a single fact, fled, then kept the facts rolling to a country that's basically becoming our enemy again. As it turns out, he was also stealing files well before that too - so it's not like he's a man with a crisis of conscience that finally went public. He sought out multiple opportunities to steal sensitive data, then tried to leak it as a trump card to win support. And, in doing so, he jeopardized the safety of our nation and it's intelligence community. He's a traitor like manning, pure and simple.


What is his motivation? Also we are not at war.

A belief I hold is for the common man a safe world is one where we know what our governments are up to. Where the public's business is conducted in the open with transparency.  Your beloved security state is the antithesis of that, at most it's an necessary evil. More often it's the enemy of peace and civil society.
 
2013-08-18 08:23:47 PM

Surpheon: Deleted for name calling? "Stupid troll" (immediately supported by verifiable evidence for my contempt)?  Seriously mods?


Shhh. Post deletions are their little "drone strikes". It makes them feel important.
 
2013-08-18 08:26:27 PM
I can't wait to write a defense of the drone strike that takes out Julian Assange
 
2013-08-18 08:31:08 PM

SomethingToDo: BQ SU9EQTO=DRC]!NYOUOkOVTLTI)N
gE!IURE TOi$:6D`9UOURbOV^{Tj;E
BX '3R\2T%[DSINK @/oR qVrLTIjQ
y,DSURu BOk5O,"K YOtR8OVALnbqE
GE m,R,1TI D*IDK _OBi 9UtLTINU


SON OF A BEACH!
 
2013-08-18 08:32:51 PM

anfrind: Against the trolls, there can be no victory. We have only one choice. We must join with them.

It would be wise, my old friend.


Tell me... friend... when did  Anfrind the Wise abandon reason for derp?

Marquis de Sod: I can't wait to write a defense of the drone strike that takes out Julian Assange


And I can't wait to not read it in an analog magazine.
 
2013-08-18 08:37:17 PM

The_Gallant_Gallstone: I can't wait to not read it in an analog magazine.


What an analog magazine may look like:

www.analogsf.com
 
2013-08-18 08:46:52 PM
And here I am without 400 GB of space to waste.

/zip bomb
 
2013-08-18 08:49:02 PM

Marquis de Sod: I can't wait to write a defense of the drone strike that takes out Julian Assange


Seriously?  dude's an annoying AW, but not worth a conventional rifle round, let alone a missile.

If he wasn't around, Manning would've just mailed his crap to a bunch of newspapers, or TV stations, or someone else with a website.  And the stuff that DID get released?

Slightly embarrassing, but so far, completely harmless.

Even threatening to prosecute Assange makes him a bigger deal than he deserves, imho...completely the wrong approach.
 
2013-08-18 09:03:02 PM

T-Boy: OgreMagi: Snowden, on the other hand, revealed a single fact.  The NSA is illegally spying on the American public.  Snowden is a hero.

Dude, get your head out of your ass. Google is spying on you. FARK is spying on you. Amazon is spying. Grocery stores, credit card companies, cell providers, they are all spying on you.  Your farking anti-spyware program is spying on you. Snowden did not tell you anything you don't already know. However, what he did do was reveal information to other governments and organizations in an effort to harm and disadvantage his own country. That is why he fled the country. He broke our laws against being a spy and traitor aiding foreign governments and organizations, which is exactly what he did.

Couldn't Snowden have served his so-called "public service" by publishing an article or a book which informed us that the government was spying on us?  Maybe he would be a messenger for policy change. He could have started a discussion. Instead he copied and took actual documents and sensitive information and handed it to foreign agents. That is different. He is a lot of things, but he's certainly no hero.


Ok, that's it. Change required action and it requires breaking the law, almost all the time. Typically change worth doing is made illegal by the powers that be, and forcing it (and change requires force of some kind, always) makes one a criminal.

This notion that in todays world you can just "write an article" is ludicrous. The long tail of the media market insured that no vector can reach a substantial audience capable of forcing change. Whistleblower protection laws have been gutted and there is no safe harbor for classified information. Anyone pushing against the system would be sidelined and victimized and silenced unless they had a high profile.

Snowden is paying a price already. He can't come home ever. He also can't be silenced by the government. He was a low level tech for a contractor, anything he reveals to foreign intelligence they already know. How did you get maps for US military based around the world? You went to the Soviet Union embassy and asked for copies, because the US sure wasn't going to let their own citizens know such things.

The only thing that makes sense to me is where he ended up. China is too connected to the US, they had to either break with Washington or arrest him. Russia is the only country with weak enough economic ties to the US who would find him interesting to keep around if only for internal media purposes. He'll probably get on with their Academy and give lectures on the exploitative nature of US policies both foreign and domestic. Either that or he will be vanished into interrogation hell. But I doubt that very much, Snowden's very existence should be worth a LOT to them even without any further secrets to reveal.

To think that he would even have a meaningful day in court here is laughable, and his sacrifice wouldn't even be public knowledge.

Until blanket whistleblower protection is forced on the government any reveal of classified information, however damning to the government and of public interest, will have to be made through this kind of grandstanding to have any effect. And I would never trust the government to grant whistleblower protection for something like this.
 
2013-08-18 09:12:52 PM

SomethingToDo: BQ SU9EQTO=DRC]!NYOUOkOVTLTI)N
gE!IURE TOi$:6D`9UOURbOV^{Tj;E
BX '3R\2T%[DSINK @/oR qVrLTIjQ
y,DSURu BOk5O,"K YOtR8OVALnbqE
GE m,R,1TI D*IDK _OBi 9UtLTINU


+1 would vote again
 
2013-08-18 09:58:15 PM

ArcadianRefugee: Surpheon: Deleted for name calling? "Stupid troll" (immediately supported by verifiable evidence for my contempt)?  Seriously mods?

Shhh. Post deletions are their little "drone strikes". It makes them feel important.


Trolls don't exist on Fark.
 
2013-08-18 10:10:51 PM
i.chzbgr.com

Put out or get out...nobody likes an attention whore.
 
2013-08-18 10:12:37 PM
PRO-TIP:  RT IS OWNED AND CONTROLLED BY THE KREMLIN, IT IS A LAP-DOG TO PUTIN, IT WILL TELEVISE, AIR OR WEBCAST WHATEVER HE TELLS THEM TO SHOW.

It is propaganda.  It has always been propaganda.
If you can't tell propaganda from reality, you need to stay offline.
 
2013-08-18 10:23:39 PM

animesucks: julian assange should title the file obamabirthcerfiticate just to freak everybody out


Since he released several packets he could have named them all different and hilarious things.

/175closetedrepublicancongressmen would have been a good one
 
2013-08-18 10:56:37 PM

Carth: Unfortunately classified data doesn't work that way in the US. If you have a security clearance and you say information that is classified, even if it is available from other means, they can prosecute you for it.

For example. Say one of the 16 intelligence agencies  writes a  report and in it they say "the sky is blue" and somehow the report ends up classified Top Secret. Now this information is painfully obvious to anyone and shouldn't actually be classified. However, if you have a security clearance and release the page of the report that says "the sky is blue" you will still lose your job, and possibility get prosecuted for releasing classified information without authorization.


My own little CSB about this rule:

Back during the Fukushima crisis, I had to prepare a daily briefing for my Commanding Officer about what was going on in Japan.

NHK, the Japanese national TV network, listed radiation data on their news reports, apparently publicly released by the Japanese government as a public safety issue.

I cited this information directly from Japanese government press releases and listed right on NHK's web site in my briefings.

One day, after the briefing, our CBRN (Chemical, Biological, Radiological and Nuclear) Officer came up to me and started to tear into me with vigor.  The briefing was Unclassified, but he was swearing that I was putting Secret data in there and I was in a heap of trouble ect.

My alleged crime?  That radiation data.  He said he'd seen those numbers before, and they were very clearly stamped Secret, and I had put Secret information on unclassified computers to present the briefing and not marked them correctly.

When I showed him what NHK was doing, he still tried to argue that it was a secret, that the Japanese government was leaking US government secrets.

I noted that the Japanese government had their own radiation experts there, and were intentionally releasing their findings for public safety purposes.  I had no idea where or how the US Government was getting their data, but what I was presenting was perfectly legal OSINT (Open Source Intelligence).

That Lieutenant didn't like that, and was adamant that I was somehow reusing classified US Government data wrongly, from what I hear he went ahead with trying to get me Article 15'ed for mishandling classified information, as my superiors briefly asked me about where I got that information, but I heard nothing more of it at the time when I noted it was on the web site of Japan's national broadcasting company as a public safety warning.  Later on I found out they basically laughed that officer out of the room when they found my side of things, he ended up getting transferred out not long after that.
 
2013-08-18 11:47:49 PM

OgreMagi: Assange is a dick of the highest order.  He tricked some poor flunky to commit a major crime, then released massive amounts of sensitive material without caring one bit about the possible fallout.  In the process he endangered many lives.  And he did it because he wants to be James Bond.

Snowden, on the other hand, revealed a single fact.  The NSA is illegally spying on the American public.  Snowden is a hero.


Just curious. What other Assange  'facts' can you pull out of your ass?
 
2013-08-19 12:25:59 AM
This is the same guy who's into spreading his seed worldwide like David Koresh and called The Guardian part of a Jewish media conspiracy against him, right? Same guy? I certainly wouldn't want to confuse him with some other attention whore. Snowden was just a poor planner. Assange is a certifiable megalomaniac. Of course he thinks US drone missiles are going to hit a diplomatic embassy in London just to get him.
 
2013-08-19 12:47:06 AM

Kittypie070: And we are supposed to completely trust a Russian news agency why, exactly?


Because the NYT is the mouthpiece of the CIA, the Washington Post is the mouthpiece of the Federal Reserve, the WSJ is the mouthpiece of the investment banks and Fox News is the mouthpiece of the Pentagon?
 
2013-08-19 12:47:38 AM

PunGent: Marquis de Sod: I can't wait to write a defense of the drone strike that takes out Julian Assange

Seriously?  dude's an annoying AW, but not worth a conventional rifle round, let alone a missile.

If he wasn't around, Manning would've just mailed his crap to a bunch of newspapers, or TV stations, or someone else with a website.  And the stuff that DID get released?

Slightly embarrassing, but so far, completely harmless.

Even threatening to prosecute Assange makes him a bigger deal than he deserves, imho...completely the wrong approach.


http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/time-journalist-apologizes-jul ia n-assange-608688
 
2013-08-19 04:08:28 AM

prjindigo: PRO-TIP:  RT IS OWNED AND CONTROLLED BY THE KREMLIN, IT IS A LAP-DOG TO PUTIN, IT WILL TELEVISE, AIR OR WEBCAST WHATEVER HE TELLS THEM TO SHOW.

It is propaganda.  It has always been propaganda.
If you can't tell propaganda from reality, you need to stay offline.


Oh wow.
Every news outlet is propaganda, it's just some of them are closer to your socio-political bent, so it's not as obvious.

It's really pretty farking stupid to go on the internet and decry some media outlet as propaganda, when you apparently haven't the foggiest farking idea what that word means, or just how pervasive it is.

Do you know why they call TV schedules "programming"?
 
2013-08-19 04:20:19 AM

Carth: Slaxl: So... no? What he shared to the world publicly was, as you say, unsurprising, and frankly as a result it jeopardised nothing. People make it sound like he fled, went to China and Russia and divulged to them more than he divulged to the public. That would be an issue, but what he shared publicly shouldn't make him an enemy of the American people, just the American government. If I was American i'd be more concerned that the interests of the people and the government don't align. However I am British, so I am more concerned that the interests of our people and our government don't align. This is why I don't want a federalised Europe. We need our old rivalries to lead to war whenever one starts acting authoritarian, rather than all uniting to act uniformly authoritarian.

/tangent

Unfortunately classified data doesn't work that way in the US. If you have a security clearance and you say information that is classified, even if it is available from other means, they can prosecute you for it.

For example. Say one of the 16 intelligence agencies  writes a  report and in it they say "the sky is blue" and somehow the report ends up classified Top Secret. Now this information is painfully obvious to anyone and shouldn't actually be classified. However, if you have a security clearance and release the page of the report that says "the sky is blue" you will still lose your job, and possibility get prosecuted for releasing classified information without authorization.

This caused a big problem when the leak first happened because no one with a security clearance was allowed to comment on the leak without approval so you'd see inane discussions on TV where they try to talk about the subject without actually addressing the specific points released.

Also if you release information to wikileaks,  it is published online, and then somehow ends up in Al Qaeda's hands the government will try to prosecute you for aiding the enemy even though you never directly gave them any in ...


Yeah, and that explains why the government is angry at him, but not why the people are. People pour scorn and vitriol upon his name as though he were evil incarnate. If we take your "sky is blue" analogy, and say the US Govt. thinks that that is secret in the interests of national security, so anyone saying it is compromising national security and needs to be prosecuted, shouldn't the public just say "er... okay, whatever", rather than "yeah, the guys a traitor!! I wanna see him fry!"?
 
2013-08-19 04:30:26 AM

Adolf Oliver Nipples: I guess Assange was upset that people weren't looking at him anymore, so out comes the "insurance", implying that the US was going to kill him. What are they going to do, storm an embassy of an ally in an ally's country? Lob a missile at a major city?


Your nice Mr Obama has repeatedly shown himself willing to order assassinateions in foreign countries. Why wouldn't he send out someone with a ricin tipped umbrella or a polonium sandwich?
 
2013-08-19 06:02:56 AM
Julian is just an attention whore.
 
2013-08-19 07:44:41 AM

alice_600: Evil High Priest: alice_600: but, here's the bigger question. What can we do?

Just let the government and corporations know everything about your life. It would help our war efforts if you were to give all of your money to the banks as well. Please do your part, citizen.

Still doesn't answer my question. Granted I use a credit union and have for years but none the less that's still technically a bank and many people need that bank to help save for retirement and cash checks so I can feed myself and my family.
I cannot stop using gas because I need a car to drive me 20 miles away to work everyday and I can't bike everywhere because it's just not a safe thing to do alone.
It's not like we can just stop using the World Wide Web. It's not like anything we can do will make a strong impact.
So tell me what more do you activists want from the average American with kids, a mortgage and a car payment? Want us to live in mud huts and wear organic leaves for clothing and eat what ever we find on the ground and if you get sick we just drink bull's blood because that's what the old fashion cavemen did? Do you? For better for worse modern life is so far been the best thing ever! It has a lot of gray areas it has a lot of stuff that may or may not ever happen. But god damn it can we just all shut up and relax and not worry about offending and hurting some farking moron who weight 440lbs and smells like a toilet because of farking political correctness privilege bull shiat they saw on tumblr!


I am not sure this post was in the right thread, but I laughed anyway. (Then again, I am also amused by the Time Cube guy.)

Bartender! I'll have whatever the incoherent guy is having, and make mine a double!
 
2013-08-19 10:00:55 AM
Snowden is no hero.   Hero's don't announce they were the leak and then run to the Chinese or Russians with laptops full of data. That's the actions of lonesome trying to sell info to the Chinese and the Russians.  The NSA data was the free sample to give them a taste before the bidding stats.  The idiot didn't realize that with the cold war over nobody is going to pay for that shiat.  At least not in broad daylight while the media snaps pictures. The espionage game is played a lot more subtly than that.  What a dumb-ass.
 
2013-08-19 10:05:33 AM
In other words, Wikileaks is keeping secrets from us.
 
2013-08-19 11:25:48 AM

LewDux: [b.vimeocdn.com image 237x134] : It's OK, Rand Paul will save him


/golf clap.
 
2013-08-19 12:39:50 PM

Prince George: Snowden is no hero.   Hero's don't announce they were the leak and then run to the Chinese or Russians with laptops full of data. That's the actions of lonesome trying to sell info to the Chinese and the Russians.  The NSA data was the free sample to give them a taste before the bidding stats.  The idiot didn't realize that with the cold war over nobody is going to pay for that shiat.  At least not in broad daylight while the media snaps pictures. The espionage game is played a lot more subtly than that.  What a dumb-ass.


Nonsense. He just figured if he didn't go he'd end up like Manning.

I'm just amazed that it seems the majority of public opinion is on the lines of "meh, government surveillance, who cares..."
 
2013-08-19 01:12:45 PM

Slaxl: I'm just amazed that it seems the majority of public opinion is on the lines of "meh, government surveillance, who cares..."


I'm more amazed that people still talk about this like it hasn't been going on for 10 years.
 
2013-08-19 01:21:37 PM

Surool: Slaxl: I'm just amazed that it seems the majority of public opinion is on the lines of "meh, government surveillance, who cares..."

I'm more amazed that people still talk about this like it hasn't been going on for 10 years.


Quite, that's what this whole media storm that Snowden kicked off has been about. It's massive in scope, and goes back a long time, yet most people don't seem to care.
 
2013-08-19 01:23:11 PM

Slaxl: Prince George: Snowden is no hero.   Hero's don't announce they were the leak and then run to the Chinese or Russians with laptops full of data. That's the actions of lonesome trying to sell info to the Chinese and the Russians.  The NSA data was the free sample to give them a taste before the bidding stats.  The idiot didn't realize that with the cold war over nobody is going to pay for that shiat.  At least not in broad daylight while the media snaps pictures. The espionage game is played a lot more subtly than that.  What a dumb-ass.

Nonsense. He just figured if he didn't go he'd end up like Manning.

I'm just amazed that it seems the majority of public opinion is on the lines of "meh, government surveillance, who cares..."


Not buying it. If he didn't want that why go public at all.  Just slip it to wiki leaks.  He was positioned to go to China before he even went public and China is not where you go to hide from the US.  He did this to get the greatest amount of attention possible. There are plenty of other places he could have gone that would have covered his butt and probably given him rock star treatment. He's either an attention whore who had dreams of Assange-esque fame or dirt-bag trying to get rich and famous selling secrets to China and or Russia.  Neither should get him hero status no mater how good a thing it is that the NSA stuff got out.  If freedom was all he wanted he could have given everything to a reporter and flown to any one of the countries wikipedia lists as supporting Assange.  I bet Sweden would have even taken him if he hadn't run to China with all his data. He made himself untouchable to anyone who would help him with that.  Either he's an SOB no one wants to help or If you're right his stupid is so far off the scale no one is going to help him.
 
2013-08-19 05:47:24 PM
"Publish and be damned!"
 
2013-08-20 12:18:33 AM

Surool: Slaxl: I'm just amazed that it seems the majority of public opinion is on the lines of "meh, government surveillance, who cares..."

I'm more amazed that people still talk about this like it hasn't been going on for 10 years.


What always surprises me is people that think it's only been going on for 10 years.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ECHELON
 
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