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(Kottke)   The surprising ages of the Founding Fathers on July 4th, 1776. In other news, your 31-year-old friend still complains his mother doesn't let him play the stereo loud after 9:00pm   (kottke.org) divider line 73
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2013-08-18 12:52:21 PM  
I have found that revolutionaries tend  to be young and idealistic.

In 1776, the average age of the Founding Fathers was 43.8
Adams, John - 41
Adams, Sam - 54
Bartlett - 47
Braxton - 40
Carroll - 39
Chase - 35
Clark - 51
Clymer - 37
Ellery - 49
Floyd - 42
Franklin - 70
Gerry - 32
Gwinnett - 41
Hall - 52
Hamilton - 21
Hancock - 39
Harrison - 50
Hart - 64
Hewes - 46
Heyward - 30
Hooper - 35
Hopkins - 69
Hopkinson - 39
Huntington - 45
Jay - 32
Jefferson - 33
Lee, Francis - 42
Lee, Richard - 44
Lewis - 63
Livingston - 60
Lynch - 27
Madison - 26
McKean - 42
Middleton - 34
Morris, Lewis - 50
Morris, Robert - 42
Morton - 51
Nelson - 38
Paca - 36
Paine - 45
Penn - 35
Read - 43
Rodney - 49
Ross - 46
Rush - 31
Rutledge - 27
Sherman - 55
Smith - 57
Stockton - 46
Stone - 33
Taylor - 60
Thomson - 47
Thornton - 62
Walton - 27
Washington - 44
Whipple - 46
Williams - 45
Wilson - 35
Witherspoon - 53
Wolcott - 50
Wythe - 50


Read more: http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_was_the_average_age_of_the_founding_fa t hers#ixzz2cLACocF7
 
2013-08-18 02:36:18 PM  
Betsy Ross was a "key participant" in the Revolutionary War, if you're in the fourth grade.
 
2013-08-18 02:39:39 PM  
Keep in mind, you could have been a grandparent at 31.
 
2013-08-18 03:05:20 PM  
They don't mention Jesus' age, and John McNaughton paintings taught me He wrote the final draft.
 
2013-08-18 03:06:46 PM  

thamike: Betsy Ross was a "key participant" in the Revolutionary War, if you're in the fourth grade.


Your misogynistic view of her contributions, even if true, does not change the fact that people assume she was much much older, and is therefore  worthy of inclusion.

/ why you try to erase women from history in your mind?
 
2013-08-18 03:10:30 PM  
I have come to the conclusion that one useless man is a disgrace; two become a lawfirm and three or more become a congress.
 
2013-08-18 03:12:04 PM  
Bobby Mo financed a lot of the war.
 
2013-08-18 03:14:20 PM  

I sound fat: Your misogynistic view of her contributions, even if true, does not change the fact that people assume she was much much older, and is therefore worthy of inclusion.


i.imgur.com
 
2013-08-18 03:15:01 PM  
Either we've already gone through this, maybe it was restricted to the Politics tab, or I just had a real weird dream.
 
2013-08-18 03:16:49 PM  
Burr and Hamilton were the kids with too much brain power and not enough supervision.
 
2013-08-18 03:19:50 PM  
In other news, your 31-year-old friend still complains his mother doesn't let him play the stereo loud after 9:00pm won't pay for his trip to Bronycon.
 
2013-08-18 03:24:22 PM  

I sound fat: thamike: Betsy Ross was a "key participant" in the Revolutionary War, if you're in the fourth grade.

Your misogynistic view of her contributions, even if true, does not change the fact that people assume she was much much older, and is therefore  worthy of inclusion.

/ why you try to erase women from history in your mind?


Wait, what did she did do?

Maybe, but unsure, she banged a German general, who was on the side of the British.

And she maybe sewed a flag, that she for sure didn't design, and that wasn't talked about until 100 years later.
 
2013-08-18 03:25:56 PM  

Makh: Keep in mind, you could have been a grandparent at 31.


Not any different today in teh ghetto or local trailer park. Thanks, Obama!
 
2013-08-18 03:27:11 PM  

pedobearapproved: Burr and Hamilton were the kids with too much brain power and not enough supervision.


Not all of the founding history happened in 1776. The constitution didn't happen immediately, they had some time to see how a tax-lite system works.
 
2013-08-18 03:29:00 PM  
Yes, exactly, subbie. My "friend". What a loser that guy is!

/sobs
//It's not just the stereo - Xbox too!
 
2013-08-18 03:29:11 PM  

Jeep2011: I have found that revolutionaries tend  to be young and idealistic.


And, if I remember right, life expectancy was around 40 in the late 1700s.  And that might be high.
 
2013-08-18 03:31:05 PM  

GoldSpider: I sound fat: Your misogynistic view of her contributions, even if true, does not change the fact that people assume she was much much older, and is therefore worthy of inclusion.

[i.imgur.com image 500x502]


Is that supposed to say "mussolini"?
 
2013-08-18 03:32:25 PM  

jtown: Jeep2011: I have found that revolutionaries tend  to be young and idealistic.

And, if I remember right, life expectancy was around 40 in the late 1700s.  And that might be high.


That was the AVERAGE, but you have to remember that MANY people died as babies/children, which screws up the average.

If you made it past 13, your chances of living into your 70s were pretty good.
 
2013-08-18 03:32:53 PM  
Thank god there were not as many distractions for those young guys or there would be no United States...

img24.imageshack.us
 
2013-08-18 03:33:33 PM  

UsikFark: pedobearapproved: Burr and Hamilton were the kids with too much brain power and not enough supervision.

Not all of the founding history happened in 1776. The constitution didn't happen immediately, they had some time to see how a tax-lite system works.


www.sonofthesouth.net

I mean this. It was ITG taken to IRL
 
2013-08-18 03:34:18 PM  
"This is kind of blowing my mind...because of the compression of history, I'd always assumed all these people were around the same age. But in thinking about it, all startups need young people...Hamilton, Lafayette, and Burr were perhaps the Gates, Jobs, and Zuckerberg of the War."

UGH. Just farkining ugh.
 
2013-08-18 03:37:40 PM  
I've owned fewer people than many of them.  Score one for me.
 
2013-08-18 03:38:48 PM  

jtown: Jeep2011: I have found that revolutionaries tend  to be young and idealistic.

And, if I remember right, life expectancy was around 40 in the late 1700s.  And that might be high.


A lot of childhood diseases we've forgotten about meant that many kids didn't live to see the age of 6. So that brings the average down a bit. Damn kids and their fancy Diphtheria messing up the statistics...
 
2013-08-18 03:42:49 PM  
Subby's point is?

Back in the day people started working (for reals) when they were 10 years old.  Most girls were married off by the the time they were 16, and most boys before they were 20.  The average 40 year old woman was a toothless, desiccated grandmother.  Most men were dead before they made it to 50.  Under the circumstances, it's no surprise that people got their life on from an early age.
 
2013-08-18 03:42:57 PM  

lewismarktwo: "This is kind of blowing my mind...because of the compression of history, I'd always assumed all these people were around the same age. But in thinking about it, all startups need young people...Hamilton, Lafayette, and Burr were perhaps the Gates, Jobs, and Zuckerberg of the War."

UGH. Just farkining ugh.


Yeah, kind of disgusting.  Hamilton, Lafayette, and Burr risked execution.  Gates, Jobs, and Zuckerberg risked other people's money.
 
2013-08-18 03:43:28 PM  
If you have a 31 year old friend a) living at home and b) complaining that his parents don't let him blare his stereo at 9 PM, I think that reflects on your caliber of friends, subby
 
2013-08-18 03:45:11 PM  
How old was Aawon Buww?
 
2013-08-18 03:50:30 PM  

Lady Beryl Ersatz-Wendigo: How old was Aawon Buww?


Milk. It does a body good.
 
2013-08-18 03:50:30 PM  

jtown: Jeep2011: I have found that revolutionaries tend  to be young and idealistic.

And, if I remember right, life expectancy was around 40 in the late 1700s.  And that might be high.


==============

Life expectancy in 1776 was 33 years of age.

http://www.mineralseducationcoalition.org/pdfs/minerals1776vstoday.p df
 
2013-08-18 03:51:00 PM  
Yes, let's calculate the ages of the "Founding Fathers" based on a date with no real meaning at all except in the minds of a bunch of idiots who like to barbecue and fire off rockets at the beginning of an otherwise boring month. How about we look at their ages when they actually did shiat?

Marquis de Lafayette - Not really a "Founding Father," more a Frenchman who just stumbled into the American Revolution by virtue of being French nobility at a time when we really needed French financial support.

James Monroe - Elected to the Fourth Continental Congress in 1783 (aged 25), although he is most remembered as a President of the United States from 1817-1825 (aged 59-67).

Gilbert Stuart - Seriously? We're calling a painter a Founding Father now?

Aaron Burr - Again, not a Founding Father. Yes, he fought in the war, but he wasn't involved in politics until late in the 1780s, and even then it wasn't about founding anything--he was New York's Attorney General

Alexander Hamilton - Hamilton was a military officer until 1782 (aged 27), when he entered the Continental Congress.

Betsy Ross - She sewed a flag (supposedly) that she didn't even design, and her contributions, such as they were, were not even discussed until several decades later when her grandson (or great-grandson) talked about it. Not a Founding...Mother?

James Madison - Best known as the author of the Constitution (which was more a collaborative effort), Madison was decidedly not a Founding Father in '76. No, he rose to prominence in the late 1780s.

This list is bullshiat. And the guy behind it isn't even an historian--he's a marketing jackass who has "written or ghost-written thousands of published articles on various business topics" (as per his bio on Huffington Post). Oh, look his "book" is a bunch of pretty pictures and the work of several actual historians that he compiled and then slapped his name on the cover. That's genius-level work, there!

So, just like Bill O'Reilly and thousands of other pseudo-historians would do, he's picked an arbitrary date, pulled crap out of his ass and said "SEE? They were just kids! Isn't that amazing!" while ignoring the fact that most of the people he's cited weren't "Founding Fathers" at his arbitrary date but were in fact doing completely different and unrelated stuff.
 
2013-08-18 03:54:44 PM  

ComaToast: jtown: Jeep2011: I have found that revolutionaries tend  to be young and idealistic.

And, if I remember right, life expectancy was around 40 in the late 1700s.  And that might be high.

A lot of childhood diseases we've forgotten about meant that many kids didn't live to see the age of 6. So that brings the average down a bit. Damn kids and their fancy Diphtheria messing up the statistics...


Lousy kids screwing up everything.  There otta be a law.
 
2013-08-18 03:57:55 PM  
So glad we didn't have this posted the other day cause old news is exciting!
 
2013-08-18 04:00:24 PM  

maram500: Yes, let's calculate the ages of the "Founding Fathers" based on a date with no real meaning at all except in the minds of a bunch of idiots who like to barbecue and fire off rockets at the beginning of an otherwise boring month. How about we look at their ages when they actually did shiat?

Marquis de Lafayette - Not really a "Founding Father," more a Frenchman who just stumbled into the American Revolution by virtue of being French nobility at a time when we really needed French financial support.

James Monroe - Elected to the Fourth Continental Congress in 1783 (aged 25), although he is most remembered as a President of the United States from 1817-1825 (aged 59-67).

Gilbert Stuart - Seriously? We're calling a painter a Founding Father now?

Aaron Burr - Again, not a Founding Father. Yes, he fought in the war, but he wasn't involved in politics until late in the 1780s, and even then it wasn't about founding anything--he was New York's Attorney General

Alexander Hamilton - Hamilton was a military officer until 1782 (aged 27), when he entered the Continental Congress.

Betsy Ross - She sewed a flag (supposedly) that she didn't even design, and her contributions, such as they were, were not even discussed until several decades later when her grandson (or great-grandson) talked about it. Not a Founding...Mother?

James Madison - Best known as the author of the Constitution (which was more a collaborative effort), Madison was decidedly not a Founding Father in '76. No, he rose to prominence in the late 1780s.

This list is bullshiat. And the guy behind it isn't even an historian--he's a marketing jackass who has "written or ghost-written thousands of published articles on various business topics" (as per his bio on Huffington Post). Oh, look his "book" is a bunch of pretty pictures and the work of several actual historians that he compiled and then slapped his name on the cover. That's genius-level work, there!

So, just like Bill O'Reilly and thousands of other pse ...


=============

Typical liberal with all your fancy East Coast facts and reality based observations.  Go back to Harvard, egghead.
 
2013-08-18 04:01:51 PM  

Fissile: maram500: Yes, let's calculate the ages of the "Founding Fathers" based on a date with no real meaning at all except in the minds of a bunch of idiots who like to barbecue and fire off rockets at the beginning of an otherwise boring month. How about we look at their ages when they actually did shiat?

Marquis de Lafayette - Not really a "Founding Father," more a Frenchman who just stumbled into the American Revolution by virtue of being French nobility at a time when we really needed French financial support.

James Monroe - Elected to the Fourth Continental Congress in 1783 (aged 25), although he is most remembered as a President of the United States from 1817-1825 (aged 59-67).

Gilbert Stuart - Seriously? We're calling a painter a Founding Father now?

Aaron Burr - Again, not a Founding Father. Yes, he fought in the war, but he wasn't involved in politics until late in the 1780s, and even then it wasn't about founding anything--he was New York's Attorney General

Alexander Hamilton - Hamilton was a military officer until 1782 (aged 27), when he entered the Continental Congress.

Betsy Ross - She sewed a flag (supposedly) that she didn't even design, and her contributions, such as they were, were not even discussed until several decades later when her grandson (or great-grandson) talked about it. Not a Founding...Mother?

James Madison - Best known as the author of the Constitution (which was more a collaborative effort), Madison was decidedly not a Founding Father in '76. No, he rose to prominence in the late 1780s.

This list is bullshiat. And the guy behind it isn't even an historian--he's a marketing jackass who has "written or ghost-written thousands of published articles on various business topics" (as per his bio on Huffington Post). Oh, look his "book" is a bunch of pretty pictures and the work of several actual historians that he compiled and then slapped his name on the cover. That's genius-level work, there!

So, just like Bill O'Reilly and thousands of ...


Not a liberal, but thanks anyway!
 
2013-08-18 04:02:25 PM  
www.lollipoplingerie.com
Does this mean that this is an historically accurate costume?
 
2013-08-18 04:21:46 PM  
The problem with using "average" age is that there was a high child mortality rate.  If you lived past childhood, you had a decent chance of making it into your 60s.  It certainly wasn't like 30 years olds were acting like they only had a few more years to live.  If a 1 year old dies of measles and a 80 year old dies of congestive heart failure, that makes the "average" life expectancy 40.5.  Just not a useful statistic.

Just look at the ages when some of the people on this list died:
George Washington - 67
John Adams - 90
Ben Franklin - 84
Thomas Paine - 72

And I don't believe anyone thought that it was somehow unusual.
 
2013-08-18 04:31:42 PM  

GoldSpider: I sound fat: Your misogynistic view of her contributions, even if true, does not change the fact that people assume she was much much older, and is therefore worthy of inclusion.


Favorited.
 
2013-08-18 04:31:55 PM  

realmolo: jtown: Jeep2011: I have found that revolutionaries tend  to be young and idealistic.

And, if I remember right, life expectancy was around 40 in the late 1700s.  And that might be high.

That was the AVERAGE, but you have to remember that MANY people died as babies/children, which screws up the average.

If you made it past 13, your chances of living into your 70s were pretty good.


Plus, a farmhand might die at 35 just on accident. But if you were educated, like the founding fathers were (in majority), that helped you stay safe a lot better.
 
2013-08-18 04:34:40 PM  

Fissile: Subby's point is?

Back in the day people started working (for reals) when they were 10 years old.  Most girls were married off by the the time they were 16, and most boys before they were 20.  The average 40 year old woman was a toothless, desiccated grandmother.  Most men were dead before they made it to 50.  Under the circumstances, it's no surprise that people got their life on from an early age.


Perhaps the point is that youth is no excuse for small thinking.
 
2013-08-18 04:34:43 PM  

I sound fat: thamike: Betsy Ross was a "key participant" in the Revolutionary War, if you're in the fourth grade.

Your misogynistic view of her contributions, even if true, does not change the fact that people assume she was much much older, and is therefore  worthy of inclusion.

/ why you try to erase women from history in your mind?


s3-ec.buzzfed.com
 
2013-08-18 04:35:41 PM  

Standard Deviant: Perhaps the point is that youth is no excuse for small thinking.


It's the only excuse for small thinking.
 
2013-08-18 04:36:49 PM  

jtown: Jeep2011: I have found that revolutionaries tend  to be young and idealistic.

And, if I remember right, life expectancy was around 40 in the late 1700s.  And that might be high.


For the zillionth time, that's a farking average. The distribution matters. It's dragged way down by lots of childhood deaths- if you made it past childhood, when your immune system is not as strong as that of an adults, you stood a very good chance of making it to 60+.

brian_ellenberger: The problem with using "average" age is that there was a high child mortality rate.  If you lived past childhood, you had a decent chance of making it into your 60s.  It certainly wasn't like 30 years olds were acting like they only had a few more years to live.  If a 1 year old dies of measles and a 80 year old dies of congestive heart failure, that makes the "average" life expectancy 40.5.  Just not a useful statistic.

Just look at the ages when some of the people on this list died:
George Washington - 67
John Adams - 90
Ben Franklin - 84
Thomas Paine - 72

And I don't believe anyone thought that it was somehow unusual.


Oh, somebody beat me to it. Thanks. And yeah, that wasn't considered all that unusual. In fact, George Washinton's death was considered something of a shock- he was in good health until very soon before his death- he fell sick and died within a few days. Though he did last longer than he expected to himself- his family had a history of heart trouble and males dropping dead at 50, and he went through life with that fear of an early death hanging over him.
 
2013-08-18 04:37:42 PM  

Standard Deviant: GoldSpider: I sound fat: Your misogynistic view of her contributions, even if true, does not change the fact that people assume she was much much older, and is therefore worthy of inclusion.

Favorited.


as a treasure troll without the treasure?
 
2013-08-18 04:41:46 PM  

Fark It: lewismarktwo: "This is kind of blowing my mind...because of the compression of history, I'd always assumed all these people were around the same age. But in thinking about it, all startups need young people...Hamilton, Lafayette, and Burr were perhaps the Gates, Jobs, and Zuckerberg of the War."

UGH. Just farkining ugh.

Yeah, kind of disgusting.  Hamilton, Lafayette, and Burr risked execution.  Gates, Jobs, and Zuckerberg risked other people's money.


===========

To be fair, Gates risked his own trust fund money.
 
2013-08-18 04:45:17 PM  
That Samuel Whittemore died harder than Bruce Willis.
 
2013-08-18 04:46:18 PM  

SomeoneDumb: Either we've already gone through this, maybe it was restricted to the Politics tab, or I just had a real weird dream.


No, you are correct. This is a repeat from a few days ago.

http://www.fark.com/comments/7888864/Americas-Founding-Fathers-were- mo stly-teenagers-20-somethings-who-also-made-craft-beer-admired-colorful -ponies

I outta remember, this I was the submitter of that thread.
 
2013-08-18 04:48:21 PM  

maram500: Marquis de Lafayette - Not really a "Founding Father," more a Frenchman who just stumbled into the American Revolution by virtue of being French nobility at a time when we really needed French financial support.


Hilariously untrue. He was a French noble, yes, but came over before the French court was really offering much support because he believed in the cause. He became a surrogate son to Washington, rocketed up to being a General, and was generally very important in shaping the American Revolution and securing French support for it.

He's a founding father and was celebrated, even in his life, as one of the most prominent icons of the Revolution. He's also the one who took the ideals of the American Revolution and brought them back to France, triggering the French Revolution. He mailed the key to the Bastille back to George Washington, by the way- it's still hanging prominently on the wall in Mount Vernon. So, uh, that ended well*, and...

He's an incredibly important figure in two major revolutions. A Founding Father here if there ever was one, and wound up in a very similar role in France. Don't knock Lafayette.

*After some pretty dicey stuff during the Reign of Terror, it actually did end well.
 
2013-08-18 04:58:30 PM  
Also, this has been missing from the thread, because every thread needs more musical references:

Mr. Jefferson, dear Mr. Jefferson: I'm only 41; I still have my virility. And I can romp through cupid's grove with great agility! But there is more to life than sexual combustibility!
 
2013-08-18 05:04:00 PM  

pedobearapproved: Standard Deviant: GoldSpider: I sound fat: Your misogynistic view of her contributions, even if true, does not change the fact that people assume she was much much older, and is therefore worthy of inclusion.

Favorited.

as a treasure troll without the treasure?


It's funny because I am now dating a girl who is a self-described feminist and may be the libbiest lib who ever libbed.
 
2013-08-18 05:11:14 PM  

Fissile: Subby's point is?

Back in the day people started working (for reals) when they were 10 years old.  Most girls were married off by the the time they were 16, and most boys before they were 20.  The average 40 year old woman was a toothless, desiccated grandmother.  Most men were dead before they made it to 50.  Under the circumstances, it's no surprise that people got their life on from an early age.


Wow, it is impressive to just totally fail on every point.

Interestingly, you are probably too old for the first one.  Children were expected to contribute to the family economic situation as early as 4.  But they weren't trotting off to work in the coal mines*; they were doing little stuff like gathering tinder for fires, or picking berries, or small home work.  Even early apprenticeships were more about cleaning and what we would consider housework than beating out the Liberty Bell with their wee penises.  Children definitely worked more than modern kids, but they had less schooling; a modern teenager with an after-school job probably spends more hours engaged in labor (between school, work, and homework) than your average printer's apprentice in 1776.

Most people got married around 20-25.  The early ones get all the news, because they were, well, news.  But when you actually comb through church and courthouse records, the vast majority of people got married about the same age as modern people do.  Interestingly, there may have been a reason for some earlier marriages (and babies) in the late colonial period.  Many farm families would only approve a marriage if they could set the couple up with some land.  As population pressure and dwindling free land east of the Appalachians made this harder, parents were refusing to let couple marry.  So couples started intentionally farking to get pregnant, with the impending bastard serving as blackmail on the erstwhile grandparents to consent.  The number of "premature" babies in 1760s and 1770s Pennsylvania was pandemic. So lower marriage/baby ages might be simply economic pragmatism, not an impending desire to breed before your inevitable death from old age at 25.

As stated several times above, most people who survived childhood lived reasonably similar life-spans to moderns (somewhat shorter, but we make up for most of the deaths due to bad medicine and hygiene through auto wrecks, heart disease, and cancer).  Most grannies were in their late 40s or 50s, most men lived well into their 60s.  The big difference was the number of quite small graves around the various churchyards and cemeteries was disturbingly higher.  Hell, even today, when we say "Life expectancy is X", we are excluding the <1 set (and possibly the <5 set, depending on the calculation); being wee is still the best indicator of death, but we account for it in modern figures while merrily ignoring it for historical ones.


* This will change int he Industrial Revolution, but we aren't there quite yet
 
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