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(CNBC)   Consumer experts say that Obamacare creates opportunities for swindlers, con men and rip-off artists. As opposed to the current health care system which is full of swindlers, con men and rip-off artists   (cnbc.com ) divider line
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571 clicks; posted to Business » on 18 Aug 2013 at 12:17 PM (3 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-08-18 09:50:26 AM  
They don't want the competition.
 
2013-08-18 09:58:31 AM  
Why not just lower the age limit on Medicare? Use infrastructure that is already in place and safeguards that are already there to protect against fraud and abuse. There's no reason to re-invent the wheel, especially in this day and age, when any legislation is more likely to be a sloppily written corporate BJ than anything that actually helps people.
 
2013-08-18 10:00:47 AM  
Does this mean I can still get my free Rascal mobility scooter?
 
2013-08-18 10:00:50 AM  
It's funny because federal healthcare programs have so much more fraud than private insurance.

Oh wait...
 
2013-08-18 10:01:59 AM  
Millions might benefit, but 10s might game the system, so burn the shiat down!
 
2013-08-18 10:08:53 AM  

NutWrench: Why not just lower the age limit on Medicare? Use infrastructure that is already in place and safeguards that are already there to protect against fraud and abuse. There's no reason to re-invent the wheel, especially in this day and age, when any legislation is more likely to be a sloppily written corporate BJ than anything that actually helps people.


this is what we should have done in the first place. but that's single-payer socialized medicine you're talking about, so it must be bad. never mind the fact that between it and tricare, something like 30 percent of americans already receive it and like it just fine.
 
2013-08-18 10:15:01 AM  

NutWrench: Why not just lower the age limit on Medicare?


www.xbox360achievements.org

COMMUNIST DETECTED ON AMERICAN SOIL. LETHAL FORCE ENGAGED.


/I keed
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2013-08-18 11:15:45 AM  

NutWrench: Why not just lower the age limit on Medicare? Use infrastructure that is already in place and safeguards that are already there to protect against fraud and abuse. There's no reason to re-invent the wheel, especially in this day and age, when any legislation is more likely to be a sloppily written corporate BJ than anything that actually helps people.


That was one of the proposals for Obama-care, but the insurance companies had too much influence.  basically, no plan that puts them out of business is going to fly.
 
2013-08-18 12:17:47 PM  

NutWrench: Why not just lower the age limit on Medicare? Use infrastructure that is already in place and safeguards that are already there to protect against fraud and abuse. There's no reason to re-invent the wheel, especially in this day and age, when any legislation is more likely to be a sloppily written corporate BJ than anything that actually helps people.


Ironically, the people who scream "socialism" (and essentially, it is) over this idea are the same people who tend to cheerlead for giant corporations' rights. Insurance companies make billions on Medicare Advantage and are salivating over the idea of expanding into the younger market. The younger, healthier population would offset the elderly resulting in raking in more and more cash from the government and paying out less claims. Everyone wins if you expand Medicare/Medicare Advantage to include everyone. And if you don't want to go through an insurance company, fine. You get regular old Medicare and pay your 20% coinsurance. Would your taxes go up? Sure, a little. But think of trading that tax in for throwing away your insurance premiums, which just go up and up and up, no matter what.
 
2013-08-18 12:20:28 PM  
Consumer experts say that Obamacare creates opportunities for swindlers, con men and rip-off artists future governors of Florida.
 
2013-08-18 12:20:41 PM  
Who's the farker that moved the blood pressure ranges down a notch so what was normal a decade ago is now borderline hypertensive? That's a con.
 
2013-08-18 12:22:14 PM  
On another note, I live in KY and went to the state fair yesterday. They had a huge booth set up for the new state exchange system for 2014, "kynect," and it was really crowded. Unsurprisingly, pretty much anything associated with Obama and especially the word Obamacare are wildly unpopular here. That said, people were really reacting positively to what the booth people were explaining and about 1/4 of the people I saw on the grounds were carrying kynect bags around. I wanted to get one and write "this is Obamacare, people. See? It ain't that bad."
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2013-08-18 12:27:50 PM  

wildcardjack: Who's the farker that moved the blood pressure ranges down a notch so what was normal a decade ago is now borderline hypertensive? That's a con.


Probably the same bastard that made things like cigarettes and asbestos cause cancer.  They used to be healthy, now they ain't.  Study it out.
 
2013-08-18 12:30:18 PM  
Health care is a racket in the United States of Avarice. Insurance is no different than paying protection to the mob.
 
2013-08-18 12:50:56 PM  
I'd like to see a simple chart that shows the average American's lifetime earnings, divided up into whatever amounts people are advocating.

I'd just like someone to acknowledge that taxation is, essentially, a zero-sum game, and that we can't all get everything.  I think the average American will earn 2 million USD in a lifetime and the average American will rack up 400k in medical bills.
 
2013-08-18 12:52:22 PM  
Double middle fingers for the farker who thinks women can just waltz in and get health insurance for "having vaginas."
 
2013-08-18 12:58:38 PM  
Everything in the US is an opportunity for swindlers, con-men, and rip-off artists.  That's what the US is all about.
 
2013-08-18 01:04:40 PM  

Fark_Guy_Rob: I'd just like someone to acknowledge that taxation is, essentially, a zero-sum game, and that we can't all get everything. I think the average American will earn 2 million USD in a lifetime and the average American will rack up 400k in medical bills.


Why should we admit something that isn't necessarily true?
 
2013-08-18 01:14:57 PM  

LouDobbsAwaaaay: Consumer experts say that Obamacare creates opportunities for swindlers, con men and rip-off artists future governors of Florida.


/implying that "swindlers, con men and rip-off artists" and "future governors of Florida" are mutually exclusive
 
2013-08-18 01:27:57 PM  

macdaddy357: Health care is a racket in the United States of Avarice. Insurance is no different than paying protection to the mob.


Yeah, right?
Just wait until you get sick, get billed, go broke and carry on.
 
2013-08-18 01:28:33 PM  
Supporting the system only benefits the already-wealthy.
Don't buy insurance.
 
2013-08-18 01:32:52 PM  

RedPhoenix122: They don't want the competition.


Whatever you guys choose, the mortality gap between the U.S. and countries with more enlightened health care models will continue to widen.

Freedom: It'll kill ya.
 
2013-08-18 01:38:50 PM  

FlashHarry: this is what we should have done in the first place. but that's single-payer socialized medicine you're talking about, so it must be bad. never mind the fact that between it and tricare, something like 30 percent of americans already receive it and like it just fine.


Let's make it clear :

Socialized medicine is much much more than single-payer.

In single-payer, markets still governs who gets paid how much (Past the government fixing the charges for per-item operations) who gets trained, where hospitals go, what programs go where and who gets trained and promoted and fired. Doctors still get to decide (with patients) what medicines patients get, and scientists and researchers determine procedure efficacy and use through vigorous scientific debate. The only limit to care is money - if you have enough money you can get any treatment you want. You can even buy more insurance, which means that doctors and dentists and podiatrists and estheticians can bring the very-well-to-do to the front of the line by setting aside a fraction of their time for higher payers.
 
2013-08-18 01:41:40 PM  

HotIgneous Intruder: Supporting the system only benefits the already-wealthy.
Don't buy insurance.


The already wealthy are going to get coverage for ailments they can't get coverage for now?

Come on.
 
2013-08-18 01:43:36 PM  
NutWrench * * Smartest * Funniest 2013-08-18 09:58:31 AM Why not just lower the age limit on Medicare? Use infrastructure that is already in place and safeguards that are already there to protect against fraud and abuse. There's no reason to re-invent the wheel, especially in this day and age, when any legislation is more likely to be a sloppily written corporate BJ than anything that actually helps people.
-===================================================

This was an idea that was brought forth by the progressives in the house. I loved the idea.

Too bad all the conservative dems and republicans all cried foul and the idea quickly died.
 
2013-08-18 01:47:48 PM  

imapirate: On another note, I live in KY and went to the state fair yesterday. They had a huge booth set up for the new state exchange system for 2014, "kynect," and it was really crowded. Unsurprisingly, pretty much anything associated with Obama and especially the word Obamacare are wildly unpopular here. That said, people were really reacting positively to what the booth people were explaining and about 1/4 of the people I saw on the grounds were carrying kynect bags around. I wanted to get one and write "this is Obamacare, people. See? It ain't that bad."


Would have been an ideal trolling opportunity for a person in the know:

"So...what do you think about ObamaCare?"
"OBAMACARE! Got-derned danged ole socialist nonsense! Taking money away from me and my hard workin' family to pay for some welfare case keep buying smokes? BULL-SHEEET!"
"I couldn't agree more. Say, would you like to learn about this Kynect system? It offers people the chance to get affordable health insurance."
"See, now this is what we need! Not this damned ole Obamacare nonsense!"
 
2013-08-18 01:47:54 PM  
This would be a good time for Republicans to start scamming people by talking about death panels and small businesses going out of business because of Obamacare.
 
2013-08-18 01:51:14 PM  
I demand that my healthcare be run by a third party insurance company that doesn't care about my health and wants to make huge profits.  I also want them to tell me what they will pay for and what they won't.  Lastly, I want the premiums I pay to go up every year for no apparent reason.  Cause I'm an murican.
 
2013-08-18 01:53:02 PM  

imapirate: On another note, I live in KY and went to the state fair yesterday. They had a huge booth set up for the new state exchange system for 2014, "kynect," and it was really crowded. Unsurprisingly, pretty much anything associated with Obama and especially the word Obamacare are wildly unpopular here. That said, people were really reacting positively to what the booth people were explaining and about 1/4 of the people I saw on the grounds were carrying kynect bags around. I wanted to get one and write "this is Obamacare, people. See? It ain't that bad."


so I live in KY and work in Ohio, can I drop my employer health plan and get something from a state exchange if it is cheaper?
 
2013-08-18 02:01:40 PM  

Felgraf: Fark_Guy_Rob: I'd just like someone to acknowledge that taxation is, essentially, a zero-sum game, and that we can't all get everything. I think the average American will earn 2 million USD in a lifetime and the average American will rack up 400k in medical bills.

Why should we admit something that isn't necessarily true?


Where do you think the government funding comes from?

The general impression I get from most Americans is that, if we pay some amount in taxes, we should get....

Excellent police, fire, libraries, civic services.
Excellent roads, bridges, infrastructure, bike lanes, etc...
Excellent social programs - free health care/mental health/child services/foster care/housing/etc...
Excellent public education, including special needs education/sports/free lunches for the needy/etc...
Excellent cultural endowments - funding for the arts and all that jazz...
Excellent military/global police force/TSA/someone to stop the bad guys...
Excellent response to emergencies, including advanced warning...
Excellent scientific advancement, things like NASA and particle accelerators and what not....
Excellent regulations/enforcement of just about every thing we do, from how people farm, to how meat is handled, to what chemicals a plant can use, etc, etc....

And it's just the tip of the iceberg.  There is really no end to what people expect from the government.  And that's fine.  I'm not against any of these things.

I just wish people would, instead of pointing out individual things they want from the government, provide a big-picture overview where the spending does not exceed the revenue.  In the sake of keeping things simple, and easy for people to understand, I think showing the lifetime earning/lifetime spending of an individual would be a good way to do it....but yeah, absolutely, there are other ways to do it.

Let's pretend the US had a balanced budget (haha, I know, but still)....

If we take in X and spend X - and someone wants a change that means more spending; I want them to either say, up front, 'Yes, this would mean a y% increase in taxes' or 'Yes, this would mean spending less on Z'.

Because it's really easy to say the things we should have.

Nobody should ever be hungry in America.
Nobody should ever be homeless in America.
Nobody should ever be without medical treatment in America.
Nobody should ever not be able to afford education in America.
Nobody should ever be the victim of a crime in America.
etc, etc, etc....

But then they follow it up by saying, 'We pay too much in taxes!'
 
2013-08-18 02:07:54 PM  

SuperT: imapirate: On another note, I live in KY and went to the state fair yesterday. They had a huge booth set up for the new state exchange system for 2014, "kynect," and it was really crowded. Unsurprisingly, pretty much anything associated with Obama and especially the word Obamacare are wildly unpopular here. That said, people were really reacting positively to what the booth people were explaining and about 1/4 of the people I saw on the grounds were carrying kynect bags around. I wanted to get one and write "this is Obamacare, people. See? It ain't that bad."

so I live in KY and work in Ohio, can I drop my employer health plan and get something from a state exchange if it is cheaper?


I'm not sure but I don't see why not. Although employer based plans will likely be cheaper for the most part. There's plenty of info out there is just google it.
 
2013-08-18 02:35:50 PM  
I'd add "leeches" to your list, Subby

/nice to see my unaffordable insurance premium used to buy some gleaming new office buildings...
// would ditch our health-care system for what Canada has in a heartbeat...
 
2013-08-18 02:41:42 PM  

Fark_Guy_Rob: I'd just like someone to acknowledge that taxation is, essentially, a zero-sum game, and that we can't all get everything.


You get three choices:

1. People who can't afford health care don't get it. That means if an uninsured person has a heart attack, they don't get admitted to the emergency room. Because if you do, they're getting free health care. And if you choose this, you have to work out how in an emergency the hospital accurately determines whether you have insurance. You just arrived in an ambulance, unconscious, your purse or wallet might not be with you.

2. People get free emergency health care, even if they can't afford it. If you have high blood pressure, we won't pay $1K a year for a quarterly doctor visit and a prescription to some meds. But when you get a heart attack, we will pay for that.

3. People get free health insurance (or Medicaid, same thing). If you have high blood pressure, we will treat it, for a fraction of the cost of that heart attack - which you now won't get. Instead, you'll keep working and paying taxes.

Turns out #3 is cheaper than #2.  By a lot. Preventative care and care for chronic conditions is much cheaper than acute and emergency care.

So taxation isn't a zero sum game. If you spend dollars on health care earlier and more wisely, you can spend far fewer, and get even better outcomes. That's why every other industrialized nation does so.
 
2013-08-18 03:11:16 PM  
Waiting for the day when Rick Scott finds a way to make tons of $$ defrauding Obamacare and all of a sudden Florida will be "good to go"
 
2013-08-18 03:42:58 PM  

The My Little Pony Killer: Double middle fingers for the farker who thinks women can just waltz in and get health insurance for "having vaginas."


Double middle finger to anyone that thinks:

...I have to pick up heavy boxes because you have a vagina
...you get alimony and all the assets in a divorce because you have a vagina
...I have to pay for the whole date because you have a vagina
...men are rapists because you changed your mind the next morning and have a vagina
...I have to pay child support because you lied and put me down as the father on a birth certificate when you're a cheating whore with a vagina

Should I continue?
 
2013-08-18 04:32:25 PM  

SuperT: imapirate: On another note, I live in KY and went to the state fair yesterday. They had a huge booth set up for the new state exchange system for 2014, "kynect," and it was really crowded. Unsurprisingly, pretty much anything associated with Obama and especially the word Obamacare are wildly unpopular here. That said, people were really reacting positively to what the booth people were explaining and about 1/4 of the people I saw on the grounds were carrying kynect bags around. I wanted to get one and write "this is Obamacare, people. See? It ain't that bad."

so I live in KY and work in Ohio, can I drop my employer health plan and get something from a state exchange if it is cheaper?


Insurance can't cross the state line. If you are self insured your choices are set by your place of residence. If you are a member of the group then it is governed by the refs of the group's home state. The states will never surrender the power of their departments of insurance and buying insurance out of state would do just that.

Plans from different states can look very different, as well. Indiana tends to favor low premium, high deductible plans. In New Jersey, their DoI approved high premium, low deductible plans. I think that is to benefit agents since they get a percent of premium for commission every time you pay. Higher premium equals higher commission and most insurance commissioners were insurance producers with political connections
 
2013-08-18 05:29:42 PM  

ManateeGag: Millions might benefit, but 10s might game the system, so burn the shiat down!


No one benefits from this shiat taking affect October 1st.

/Except these con artists, apparently.
 
2013-08-18 05:51:30 PM  

King Something: LouDobbsAwaaaay: Consumer experts say that Obamacare creates opportunities for swindlers, con men and rip-off artists future governors of Florida.

/implying that "swindlers, con men and rip-off artists" and "future governors of Florida" are mutually exclusive



More like a reminder that the current governor of Florida ran a company that got caught making $hundreds of millions by defrauding Medicare
 
2013-08-18 05:51:32 PM  
Being a medical con man and swindler gets you elected Governor in Floriduh.
 
2013-08-18 06:01:13 PM  
The all purpose, one-size-fits-all, utterly intellectually dishonest argument against absolutely any human activity you disapprove of is that it is prone to fraud.
 
2013-08-18 06:17:22 PM  
I'm safe, Scott Walker has saved me from the new  swindlers, con men and rip-off artists.
 
2013-08-18 06:35:10 PM  
They're trying to kidnap what Obama has rightfully stolen!

/ROUSes'? Republicans of Obvious Use?
//I don't think they exist
 
2013-08-18 07:04:15 PM  
6 of the 10 richest counties in the US surround Washington DC. Big Government naturally attracts Swindlers, Con Men and Rip Off Artists. As the man said, "I rob banks because that's where the money is."
 
2013-08-18 08:15:02 PM  

ginandbacon: It's funny because federal healthcare programs have so much more fraud than private insurance.

Oh wait...


You would be shocked at the level of abuse, and private insurers catch more fraud than federal programs because they are based on profit and have a vested interest in catching those farking them over, federal programs dont care if they get caught since all it would do is reduce headcount if they find out they dont need as many people. Its why this is doomed to failure, there are no controls built into the bill but nobody wants to mention that at all.
 
2013-08-18 08:20:46 PM  
Let me say this one more time.

If you restrict insurance companies to an operating margin of 20 percent, they will not care how much a hospital or doctor charges them.   Skyrocketing bills from the hospital to the insurance companies means the 20 percent is a much larger number in the future.  They just have to raise rates.  And since you HAVE to buy it, they will be able to.

It seems counter intuitive to actually CAUSE their expenses to go up, but its the only way they grow revenue in the long run.  Not only will they do this, but stock valuation methods will REQUIRE them to.

Why can no one see this?
 
2013-08-18 08:40:34 PM  

steamingpile: ginandbacon: It's funny because federal healthcare programs have so much more fraud than private insurance.

Oh wait...

You would be shocked at the level of abuse, and private insurers catch more fraud than federal programs because they are based on profit and have a vested interest in catching those farking them over, federal programs dont care if they get caught since all it would do is reduce headcount if they find out they dont need as many people. Its why this is doomed to failure, there are no controls built into the bill but nobody wants to mention that at all.


"The Justice Department launched 903 new health-care fraud in the first eight months of FY 2011 more than all of FY 2010. This is an 85-percent increase over FY 2010, a 157-precent increase over FY 2006 and 822 percent over FY1991. If the national trend continues at this pace, 1,355 prosecutions will be logged by the end of FY 2011."

Oh look, a liar.
 
2013-08-18 09:42:18 PM  

ginandbacon: "The Justice Department launched 903 new health-care fraud in the first eight months of FY 2011 more than all of FY 2010. This is an 85-percent increase over FY 2010, a 157-precent increase over FY 2006 and 822 percent over FY1991. If the national trend continues at this pace, 1,355 prosecutions will be logged by the end of FY 2011."

Oh look, a liar.


Oh look, a worshiper of the almighty state coontil the other guy is in charge).

Here's what happens with those investigations of yours...which, btw, are a drop in the bucket compared to the colossal amount of Medicare fraud.

After the Justice Department gets through patting itself on the back for the investigations it "launched", the investigations are dropped. They don't send out press releases when they do that, though. And even though it's well documented that a dollar spent on oversight saves many times that in fraud losses the departments that see budget cuts first are the ones that handle...oversight.

That's because nobody in politics really much likes oversight. Some bureaucrat is telling you, Senator Awesome (R-FL), that your wonderful program is an emperor with no clothes? That's not good for that bureaucrat's job security.

There's no upside to telling people about money that didn't get stolen - people shrug and say "that's what you're supposed to do, dumbass." There's no upside in revealing that nobody's watching over how hundreds of billions of dollars is spent - and especially no upside in revealing that efforts to watch over the money are being stymied. There's no upside if a mediagenic Cute White Girl in Florida didn't get a new artificial leg due to an investigator's honest mistake, a mistake made because Medicare fraudsters in Florida have in the recent past made a killing off bogus artificial-limb claims.

There is plenty of upside in being Senator Deus Ex Machina (D-NY) come to the rescue with plenty of money and not a whole lot of questions to ask.
 
2013-08-18 10:03:19 PM  

Gulper Eel: ginandbacon: "The Justice Department launched 903 new health-care fraud in the first eight months of FY 2011 more than all of FY 2010. This is an 85-percent increase over FY 2010, a 157-precent increase over FY 2006 and 822 percent over FY1991. If the national trend continues at this pace, 1,355 prosecutions will be logged by the end of FY 2011."

Oh look, a liar.

Oh look, a worshiper of the almighty state coontil the other guy is in charge).

Here's what happens with those investigations of yours...which, btw, are a drop in the bucket compared to the colossal amount of Medicare fraud.

After the Justice Department gets through patting itself on the back for the investigations it "launched", the investigations are dropped. They don't send out press releases when they do that, though. And even though it's well documented that a dollar spent on oversight saves many times that in fraud losses the departments that see budget cuts first are the ones that handle...oversight.

That's because nobody in politics really much likes oversight. Some bureaucrat is telling you, Senator Awesome (R-FL), that your wonderful program is an emperor with no clothes? That's not good for that bureaucrat's job security.

There's no upside to telling people about money that didn't get stolen - people shrug and say "that's what you're supposed to do, dumbass." There's no upside in revealing that nobody's watching over how hundreds of billions of dollars is spent - and especially no upside in revealing that efforts to watch over the money are being stymied. There's no upside if a mediagenic Cute White Girl in Florida didn't get a new artificial leg due to an investigator's honest mistake, a mistake made because Medicare fraudsters in Florida have in the recent past made a killing off bogus artificial-limb claims.

There is plenty of upside in being Senator Deus Ex Machina (D-NY) come to the rescue with plenty of money and not a whole lot of questions to ask.


Get a clue you shill.
 
2013-08-18 10:37:51 PM  
What a ringing endorsement for Obamacare, subby!
 
2013-08-18 11:24:23 PM  
He's just creating more jobs, for swindlers, con men, and rip-off artists. Jobs is jobs.
 
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