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(RealClearPolitics)   Edward Snowden should have brushed up on his Dostoyevsky before he headed to Russia, because he's going to end up like Raskolnikov   (realclearpolitics.com) divider line 117
    More: Interesting, Russia, President of Bolivia, internet freedom  
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10950 clicks; posted to Main » on 17 Aug 2013 at 4:11 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-08-17 04:14:56 PM
Yeah, he might pull an Anna Korenina instead.
 
2013-08-17 04:15:07 PM
He's hooking up with a prostitute?
 
2013-08-17 04:16:26 PM

amishkarl: He's hooking up with a prostitute?


Id be hooking up with the red head spy chick
 
2013-08-17 04:17:57 PM
You leak shiat then flee to China(HK) then Russia.
/You're doing it wrong
//What's next Saudi Arabia
 
2013-08-17 04:19:55 PM

drjekel_mrhyde: You leak shiat then flee to China(HK) then Russia.
/You're doing it wrong
//What's next Saudi Arabia


I keep seeing morons parroting this shiat, but none of them ever say where he should have gone instead (although there's no shortage of idiots who will assert that it's only proper whistleblowing if you hang around to be tortured by a vengeful government).
 
2013-08-17 04:22:25 PM
There was an article the other day stating that 'some' of the media is spreading bullshiat on what Snowden is actually doing on his day to day Patriotic stampede to conquer oppression.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/08/15/edward-snowden-media-misled _n _3764560.html

U.S. media concentrates on Snowden and not the leaks that he released for the betterment of mankind.
https://pressfreedomfoundation.org/blog/2013/07/media-continues-focu s- snowden-rather-information-hes-revealed
 
2013-08-17 04:23:36 PM
Yeahhh; I doubt he gets the train to Siberia, for now. He's just too important. Once pooty poot gets tired of playing golf or minecraft with snowy; pooty will use snowy to renegotiate the relationship dynamic between the US and Russia. I bet that the current administration will do just about anything to prevent snowy from leaking more about their nefarious programs...
 
2013-08-17 04:27:22 PM

China White Tea: drjekel_mrhyde: You leak shiat then flee to China(HK) then Russia.
/You're doing it wrong
//What's next Saudi Arabia

I keep seeing morons parroting this shiat, but none of them ever say where he should have gone instead (although there's no shortage of idiots who will assert that it's only proper whistleblowing if you hang around to be tortured by a vengeful government).


It's kindof a dilemna. I'm in the "he needs to keep his mouth shut and stop being a traitor" camp, but in fairness he pretty much ruled out all of the civilized and desirable places to flee to by crossing the united states..

So, he's left with : a) places that hate the US, b) places that don't hate the US entirely, but won't take action in response to our demands to take him in. He's screwed in russia the moment he stops being valuable to their debriefing efforts..
 
2013-08-17 04:29:09 PM

drjekel_mrhyde: You leak shiat then flee to China(HK) then Russia.
/You're doing it wrong
//What's next Saudi Arabia


Im not sure if you know anything about HK, which I dont think you do, but they are some of the most anti-PRC places on the planet. Their politicians view them with fear and distrust and the people are outright hostile against mainlander tourists.

Anyways, IMO Snowden shouldve just stayed in the US and made himself a martyr. At least then he will have more sympathy, and shows that he is willing to suffer for his beliefs.
 
2013-08-17 04:33:16 PM
Impossible.  Raskolnikov had some redeeming values.
 
2013-08-17 04:33:33 PM
http://www.themoscowtimes.com/opinion/article/snowden-doomed-to-dread f ul-life-in-a-capsule/484642.html

"Short, tight leash."
Welcome to Russia! We don't like your kind but you serve a purpose for now. Meet your new best friend, tell him anything you want.
 
2013-08-17 04:34:06 PM

Fallout Boy: drjekel_mrhyde: You leak shiat then flee to China(HK) then Russia.
/You're doing it wrong
//What's next Saudi Arabia

Im not sure if you know anything about HK, which I dont think you do, but they are some of the most anti-PRC places on the planet. Their politicians view them with fear and distrust and the people are outright hostile against mainlander tourists.

Anyways, IMO Snowden shouldve just stayed in the US and made himself a martyr. At least then he will have more sympathy, and shows that he is willing to suffer for his beliefs.


yeah, that's working out real great for Manning....
 
2013-08-17 04:34:12 PM

China White Tea: I keep seeing morons parroting this shiat, but none of them ever say where he should have gone instead (although there's no shortage of idiots who will assert that it's only proper whistleblowing if you hang around to be tortured by a vengeful government).


Did Rosa Parks flee to the Soviet Union? It's not civil disobedience if you don't submit to the state's prescribed penalty. And if your treatment by the government doesn't elicit sympathy from the public in general, it's time to reconsider whether what you consider "civil disobedience" is really just "crime".

It is ludicrous to assert that the US would torture him. This isn't the middle ages. Prison sucks but it's hardly torture.
 
2013-08-17 04:34:45 PM

Fallout Boy: drjekel_mrhyde: You leak shiat then flee to China(HK) then Russia.
/You're doing it wrong
//What's next Saudi Arabia

Im not sure if you know anything about HK, which I dont think you do, but they are some of the most anti-PRC places on the planet. Their politicians view them with fear and distrust and the people are outright hostile against mainlander tourists.

Anyways, IMO Snowden shouldve just stayed in the US and made himself a martyr. At least then he will have more sympathy, and shows that he is willing to suffer for his beliefs.


I dont care much for the idea of living in Russia, but Im pretty sure Id like Gitmo even less.
 
2013-08-17 04:34:58 PM

China White Tea: drjekel_mrhyde: You leak shiat then flee to China(HK) then Russia.
/You're doing it wrong
//What's next Saudi Arabia

I keep seeing morons parroting this shiat, but none of them ever say where he should have gone instead (although there's no shortage of idiots who will assert that it's only proper whistleblowing if you hang around to be tortured by a vengeful government).


No government can afford to let people who leak classified information about legal (if shady-at-best) programs go free. They cannot run the risk of other people being encouraged to leak information, for perhaps less noble reasons.

Don't pretend ANY other politician wouldn't be doing the same thing Obama's administration is, if the leak had happened on their watch.
 
2013-08-17 04:35:18 PM

China White Tea: drjekel_mrhyde: You leak shiat then flee to China(HK) then Russia.
/You're doing it wrong
//What's next Saudi Arabia

I keep seeing morons parroting this shiat, but none of them ever say where he should have gone instead (although there's no shortage of idiots who will assert that it's only proper whistleblowing if you hang around to be tortured by a vengeful government).


i.imgur.com
 
2013-08-17 04:36:15 PM
So I take it that Fast Eddie is going to grab a hatchet and slaughter an old pawnbroker woman for a few roubles and some kopecks?

What--is he going for a death sentence on more than one continent?
 
2013-08-17 04:38:49 PM
I was thinking, "Well that article is certainly a biased piece of shiate". Then I noticed this byline at the bottom.

Michael Ellis is a graduate of Yale Law School and an intelligence officer in the U.S. Navy Reserve.
 
2013-08-17 04:38:49 PM
The Idiot would have been a better choice of books
 
2013-08-17 04:40:55 PM
it was the best of times, it was the worst of times?
 
2013-08-17 04:41:40 PM

Enigmamf: China White Tea: I keep seeing morons parroting this shiat, but none of them ever say where he should have gone instead (although there's no shortage of idiots who will assert that it's only proper whistleblowing if you hang around to be tortured by a vengeful government).

Did Rosa Parks flee to the Soviet Union? It's not civil disobedience if you don't submit to the state's prescribed penalty. And if your treatment by the government doesn't elicit sympathy from the public in general, it's time to reconsider whether what you consider "civil disobedience" is really just "crime".

It is ludicrous to assert that the US would torture him. This isn't the middle ages. Prison sucks but it's hardly torture.


It's ludicrous?  Really?  After they tortured Manning?  It is, in fact,  farking obvious that they would have.

LordJiro: No government can afford to let people who leak classified information about legal (if shady-at-best) programs go free. They cannot run the risk of other people being encouraged to leak information, for perhaps less noble reasons.

Don't pretend ANY other politician wouldn't be doing the same thing Obama's administration is, if the leak had happened on their watch.


Please highlight where I said anything about the administration.  I'm strictly addressing the morons who think Snowden is an asshole for not martyring himself.
 
2013-08-17 04:42:35 PM

Somaticasual: He's screwed in russia the moment he stops being valuable to their debriefing efforts..


He's not going to get kicked out of Russia. If he does then Russia will never receive another defector again.
 
2013-08-17 04:42:52 PM
Crime and Punishment is one of those classic books that I found to be a slog.  Same with East of Eden.  I actually like Roadhouse and Point Break though so I might just be lowbrow.
 
2013-08-17 04:43:44 PM

China White Tea: Enigmamf: China White Tea: I keep seeing morons parroting this shiat, but none of them ever say where he should have gone instead (although there's no shortage of idiots who will assert that it's only proper whistleblowing if you hang around to be tortured by a vengeful government).

Did Rosa Parks flee to the Soviet Union? It's not civil disobedience if you don't submit to the state's prescribed penalty. And if your treatment by the government doesn't elicit sympathy from the public in general, it's time to reconsider whether what you consider "civil disobedience" is really just "crime".

It is ludicrous to assert that the US would torture him. This isn't the middle ages. Prison sucks but it's hardly torture.

It's ludicrous?  Really?  After they tortured Manning?  It is, in fact,  farking obvious that they would have.

LordJiro: No government can afford to let people who leak classified information about legal (if shady-at-best) programs go free. They cannot run the risk of other people being encouraged to leak information, for perhaps less noble reasons.

Don't pretend ANY other politician wouldn't be doing the same thing Obama's administration is, if the leak had happened on their watch.

Please highlight where I said anything about the administration.  I'm strictly addressing the morons who think Snowden is an asshole for not martyring himself.


You implied that the government was pursuing Snowden out of vengeance.
 
2013-08-17 04:44:40 PM

China White Tea: drjekel_mrhyde: You leak shiat then flee to China(HK) then Russia.
/You're doing it wrong
//What's next Saudi Arabia

I keep seeing morons parroting this shiat, but none of them ever say where he should have gone instead (although there's no shortage of idiots who will assert that it's only proper whistleblowing if you hang around to be tortured by a vengeful government).


France, Iceland and Switzerland are counties that do have extradition treaties with the US but normally ignores such requests.

States that have no extraditions treaties, so you don't have to worry about that, and are normally safe would be counties like Morocco, Cape Verde, Moldova, Croatia (and most of the rest of former Yugoslavia for that matter) the Vatican, several Pacific Island nations and even Madagascar which I'm sure would be happy to shut down all the ports should the US try to come and get at ya.

So yes, he had a long list of less suspicious counties to hid out in.
 
2013-08-17 04:45:07 PM

jwrw: Somaticasual: He's screwed in russia the moment he stops being valuable to their debriefing efforts..

He's not going to get kicked out of Russia. If he does then Russia will never receive another defector again.


Getting kicked out would be too public for russia..
I'm guessing it will be more along the lines of "We've moved mr.snowden to a secure facility for transportation". And his family will never hear from him again..
 
2013-08-17 04:45:40 PM

LordJiro: China White Tea: Enigmamf: China White Tea: I keep seeing morons parroting this shiat, but none of them ever say where he should have gone instead (although there's no shortage of idiots who will assert that it's only proper whistleblowing if you hang around to be tortured by a vengeful government).

Did Rosa Parks flee to the Soviet Union? It's not civil disobedience if you don't submit to the state's prescribed penalty. And if your treatment by the government doesn't elicit sympathy from the public in general, it's time to reconsider whether what you consider "civil disobedience" is really just "crime".

It is ludicrous to assert that the US would torture him. This isn't the middle ages. Prison sucks but it's hardly torture.

It's ludicrous?  Really?  After they tortured Manning?  It is, in fact,  farking obvious that they would have.

LordJiro: No government can afford to let people who leak classified information about legal (if shady-at-best) programs go free. They cannot run the risk of other people being encouraged to leak information, for perhaps less noble reasons.

Don't pretend ANY other politician wouldn't be doing the same thing Obama's administration is, if the leak had happened on their watch.

Please highlight where I said anything about the administration.  I'm strictly addressing the morons who think Snowden is an asshole for not martyring himself.

You implied that the government was pursuing Snowden out of vengeance.


Actually, I implied they would torture him out of vengeance.
 
2013-08-17 04:45:52 PM

LordJiro: China White Tea: drjekel_mrhyde: You leak shiat then flee to China(HK) then Russia.
/You're doing it wrong
//What's next Saudi Arabia

I keep seeing morons parroting this shiat, but none of them ever say where he should have gone instead (although there's no shortage of idiots who will assert that it's only proper whistleblowing if you hang around to be tortured by a vengeful government).

No government can afford to let people who leak classified information about legal (if shady-at-best) programs go free. They cannot run the risk of other people being encouraged to leak information, for perhaps less noble reasons.

Don't pretend ANY other politician wouldn't be doing the same thing Obama's administration is, if the leak had happened on their watch.


I think Obama doesn't have the experience to deal with Putin effectively. There are dozens of cards in Obama's hand and he plays le mat.
 
2013-08-17 04:47:23 PM

jwrw: Somaticasual: He's screwed in russia the moment he stops being valuable to their debriefing efforts..

He's not going to get kicked out of Russia. If he does then Russia will never receive another defector again.


Check your history. Defecting there sucks.
 
2013-08-17 04:50:10 PM

Smackledorfer: jwrw: Somaticasual: He's screwed in russia the moment he stops being valuable to their debriefing efforts..

He's not going to get kicked out of Russia. If he does then Russia will never receive another defector again.

Check your history. Defecting there sucks.


Study it out?
 
2013-08-17 04:51:20 PM
 
2013-08-17 04:51:36 PM
What kind of BULLshiat article is this?

Snowden and Assange have thus become prisoners of the very concepts they hoped to transcend, forced to wrap themselves in the protections of the state system as they simultaneously advocate for its destruction.

No, they don't. Stop spreading lies. They're not planning to destroy states, but to ensure states behave in an ethical manner.


Morales relies on the prohibition against states meddling in each other's internal affairs to suppress his opposition at home. Yet he cried foul when European countries that are no friends of NSA surveillance asserted sovereign control of their airspace.

Ah, I see, this is just a propaganda pamphlet and not a proper article analyzing the situation.
 
2013-08-17 04:53:34 PM

China White Tea: It's ludicrous?  Really?  After they tortured Manning?  It is, in fact,  farking obvious that they would have.


Man, when Manning apologized and publicly rejected his former actions, my heart was broken.
It reminded me of the end of 1984 when Smith finally "learned" to love Big Brother.

:(
 
2013-08-17 04:55:25 PM

Smackledorfer: jwrw: Somaticasual: Check your history. Defecting there sucks.


I'm sure it did back in the day when it was a worker's paradise. Assuming he can learn the lingo, get a job in IT in Moscow or St Petersburg, then he ought to be able to live well enough. Bonus if Anna Chapman was serious with her offer. Russia has nothing to gain by making his life miserable.
 
2013-08-17 04:56:49 PM

jwrw: Russia has nothing to gain by making his life miserable.


If they're letting Snowden stay there, it's to do more than to piss off the United States. It's because he has something they want. That's been the case of all western defectors to Russia - they had something the Russians found valuable.
 
2013-08-17 04:57:54 PM
I'm not sure if I would have leaked the info Snowden had, I actually doubt that I would. However, if I did leak the information for moral and ethical reasons, I wouldn't have gone abroad seeking asylum. I would like to think I would have turned myself in and taken responsibility for my actions. That, in my opinion, would better create dialog on the merits and take away ammunition from people saying I'm a traitor, spy, enemy agent, etc.

I can't say I really sympathize too much with Snowden. He's in it to save his ass now and is doing so by running up to Putin who is far from a great defender of freedom and transparency. But fark ethics when you might face consequences for your actions, eh Mr. Snowden?
 
2013-08-17 04:57:59 PM
FTA: "A man who started as a whistleblower for humanity has become no more than a traitor to his state. That transformation gives lie to the hollowness of an ideology that tolerates no secrets."

Erm. Come again?
 
2013-08-17 04:58:20 PM

Enigmamf: China White Tea: I keep seeing morons parroting this shiat, but none of them ever say where he should have gone instead (although there's no shortage of idiots who will assert that it's only proper whistleblowing if you hang around to be tortured by a vengeful government).

Did Rosa Parks flee to the Soviet Union? It's not civil disobedience if you don't submit to the state's prescribed penalty. And if your treatment by the government doesn't elicit sympathy from the public in general, it's time to reconsider whether what you consider "civil disobedience" is really just "crime".

It is ludicrous to assert that the US would torture him. This isn't the middle ages. Prison sucks but it's hardly torture.


Well-off, young, white nerds don't go to jail willingly as a form of protest. They either run off or off themselves.
 
2013-08-17 05:03:14 PM

hardinparamedic: That's been the case of all western defectors to Russia - they had something the Russians found valuable.


Sure, and if they want more in the future they'll want to show there's a reasonable quality of life on offer over there.
 
2013-08-17 05:04:56 PM
When they catch Snowden, the US government and the NSA will be on trial for their shiatty and illegal activities.

/ If the US government has done nothing wrong, it has nothing to fear from people like Snowden.
 
2013-08-17 05:08:08 PM

DoomPaul: I'm not sure if I would have leaked the info Snowden had, I actually doubt that I would. However, if I did leak the information for moral and ethical reasons, I wouldn't have gone abroad seeking asylum. I would like to think I would have turned myself in and taken responsibility for my actions. That, in my opinion, would better create dialog on the merits and take away ammunition from people saying I'm a traitor, spy, enemy agent, etc.

I can't say I really sympathize too much with Snowden. He's in it to save his ass now and is doing so by running up to Putin who is far from a great defender of freedom and transparency. But fark ethics when you might face consequences for your actions, eh Mr. Snowden?


If you make dying/torture/life-in-prison the things you have to face in order to be a patriot, then you're discouraging the rest from even trying to be one. Good jorb, if that was your objective.

It's also ironic that you put the onus on him. Disregard the validity of his leaks, it's the fact that he ran what makes it wrong >:( It's not him who you should be questioning!!

Also, really? Turn himself in? You're a terrible strategist, I hope you never attempt such a thing or you'll die an uneventful death.
 
2013-08-17 05:08:52 PM

DoomPaul: He's in it to save his ass now and is doing so by running up to Putin who is far from a great defender of freedom and transparency. But fark ethics when you might face consequences for your actions, eh Mr. Snowden?


I've been hanging around Reddit lately, and the hoops they'll jump through to avoid allowing that thought to enter their minds is pretty incredible. Every move he makes must be driven by only the purest of motivations and he is the most patriotic patriot that has ever patrioted.
 
2013-08-17 05:09:07 PM

dennysgod: France, Iceland and Switzerland are counties that do have extradition treaties with the US but normally ignores such requests.

States that have no extraditions treaties, so you don't have to worry about that, and are normally safe would be counties like Morocco, Cape Verde, Moldova, Croatia (and most of the rest of former Yugoslavia for that matter) the Vatican, several Pacific Island nations and even Madagascar which I'm sure would be happy to shut down all the ports should the US try to come and get at ya.

So yes, he had a long list of less suspicious counties to hid out in.


Russia was never his intended destination. He had to leave Hong Kong in a hurry once he realized this wasn't The Dark Knight and they would, in fact extradite his ass. Moscow was just a stopover, he had a ticket booked from there to Cuba and presumably Ecuador or Venezuela after that. He didn't show up for the flight after someone pointed out the Moscow-Havana route crosses US airspace, and after that he was boned because his revoked passport had finally caught up with him. In short, he didn't think his cunning plan all the way through.
 
2013-08-17 05:12:26 PM

jwrw: I'm sure it did back in the day when it was a worker's paradise. Assuming he can learn the lingo, get a job in IT in Moscow or St Petersburg, then he ought to be able to live well enough. Bonus if Anna Chapman was serious with her offer. Russia has nothing to gain by making his life miserable.


Russia does a lot of self-destructive things that don't benefit them in the slightest.  That's what they do.  That's pretty much ALL they do.
 
2013-08-17 05:16:17 PM

sheep snorter: There was an article the other day stating that 'some' of the media is spreading bullshiat on what Snowden is actually doing on his day to day Patriotic stampede to conquer oppression.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/08/15/edward-snowden-media-misled _n _3764560.html

U.S. media concentrates on Snowden and not the leaks that he released for the betterment of mankind.
https://pressfreedomfoundation.org/blog/2013/07/media-continues-focu s- snowden-rather-information-hes-revealed


LMAO, Bruce and Mattie Fein are involved now? They always tell on themselves.
 
2013-08-17 05:17:19 PM
www.homevideos.com
Remember that nice boy next door? Raskolnikov?
Yeah?
He killed two ladies.
No! What a nasty story.
Bobick told it to me. He heard it from one of the Karamazov brothers.
He must have been possessed.
Well, he was a raw youth.
Raw youth? He was an idiot.
And he acted insulted and injured.
I hear he was a gambler.
You know, he could be your double.
Really? How novel.
 
2013-08-17 05:19:55 PM

Dead for Tax Reasons: it was the best of times, it was the worst of times?


~
You stupid monkey.
 
2013-08-17 05:25:45 PM

Wolf_Blitzer: Russia was never his intended destination. He had to leave Hong Kong in a hurry once he realized this wasn't The Dark Knight and they would, in fact extradite his ass. Moscow was just a stopover, he had a ticket booked from there to Cuba and presumably Ecuador or Venezuela after that.


i44.tinypic.com
 
2013-08-17 05:27:39 PM

China White Tea: It's ludicrous?  Really?  After they tortured Manning?  It is, in fact,  farking obvious that they would have.


Keeping a clinically depressed person under suicide watch is torture?
 
2013-08-17 05:30:32 PM
Michael Ellis is a graduate of Yale Law School and an intelligence officer in the U.S. Navy Reserve.

And we all know military intelligence is an oxymoron.
 
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