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(The New York Times)   Call 911? Here's your eviction notice   (nytimes.com) divider line 132
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10694 clicks; posted to Main » on 17 Aug 2013 at 2:20 PM (49 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-08-17 12:20:37 PM
So what I got out of that was: Due process is being ignored, needs some kind of appeal process.

And maybe this should only count calls where you didn't get a protective order.

otherwise im-ok-with-this.jpg
 
2013-08-17 12:46:40 PM

Rand's lacy underwear: And maybe this should only count calls where you didn't get a protective order.


Yeah, but that would require logic, better to just have a zero tolerance policy and treat everybody like they are hosting a crack den.
 
2013-08-17 01:31:17 PM

Tom_Slick: Rand's lacy underwear: And maybe this should only count calls where you didn't get a protective order.

Yeah, but that would require logic, better to just have a zero tolerance policy and treat everybody like they are hosting a crack den.


This.
 
2013-08-17 02:22:47 PM
God damn you lawbreakers, cant you just leave the poor, overworked and always competent and nice police ALONE?

Fookers!

/we are rapidly swirling down into the shiatter
 
2013-08-17 02:23:44 PM
Whenever a "zero tolerance" policy is announced, you just know it's going to fail spectacularly in some way that does very serious harm to someone.
 
2013-08-17 02:27:09 PM

Rand's lacy underwear: So what I got out of that was: Due process is being ignored, needs some kind of appeal process.

And maybe this should only count calls where you didn't get a protective order.

otherwise im-ok-with-this.jpg


That seems like a fair solution.  The idea is good in theory, it just needs some tweaking in execution.

The article says that the police instructed her to get an order of protection but that she failed to do so.  Did the officers give her instructions on how to go about doing that?  Perhaps having officers provide instructions or even filling out the paperwork for it with the tenant at the scene would be a worthwhile step.

It would also make sense to separate incidents within the house from those outside the house.  A renter can't control what happens on the sidewalk outside of their property, or who decided to knock on the front door.  Being allowed to call the police to remove troublemakers outside or those attempting to gain entry without permission without having to worry about being evicted for it would seem fair.
 
2013-08-17 02:27:19 PM
I like the intent but the execution is bad.
 
2013-08-17 02:28:14 PM
Maybe, just maybe; she should have moved and not told the dirtbag where to.

/ I'm all for making violent tenants move out; but, maybe there should be a protection order exemption or something
 
2013-08-17 02:28:45 PM

iron_city_ap: I like the intent but the execution is bad.


Same could be said for 99% of laws, imo.
 
2013-08-17 02:29:06 PM
This sounds like the American version of an ASBO--and yes, from what I've read about ASBOs in Britain, they're a poor idea.
 
2013-08-17 02:30:30 PM
Is it just me - or is the race baiting getting ridiculous?

A law that says too many calls to 911 can get you flagged a menace and the town can evict you.....that targets black people?  Wouldn't it be more correct to say that the law targets people who call 911 frequently?
 
2013-08-17 02:30:42 PM

iheartscotch: Maybe, just maybe; she should have moved and not told the dirtbag where to.

/ I'm all for making violent tenants move out; but, maybe there should be a protection order exemption or something


Spoken like someone who has disposable income and good credit.
 
2013-08-17 02:31:05 PM
Wish my town had a nuisance law. I have called the police on my neighbor three times in four months, but the landlord said his hands are tied so he's unable to evict her.
 
2013-08-17 02:32:28 PM

iron_city_ap: I like the intent but the execution is bad.


With that boyfriend, and that level of support from the community, a home-grown execution might be just the thing.
 
2013-08-17 02:32:39 PM
Follow the crack crumbs to some elected official who would most probably state: "According to the statistics, this is the safest neighborhood in the city. No one ever calls 911."
 
2013-08-17 02:33:02 PM

jake_lex: Whenever a "zero tolerance" policy is announced, you just know it's going to fail spectacularly in some way that does very serious harm to someone.


Are you suggesting we should have zero tolerance for zero tolerance policies?

/divide by zero tolerance
 
2013-08-17 02:35:09 PM

jake_lex: Whenever a "zero tolerance" policy is announced, you just know it's going to fail spectacularly in some way that does very serious harm to someone.


It's not a "zero tolerance" policy.  It's a "your life is disruptive to your neighbors and they shouldn't have to put up with having the cops in their yard at 3am several times per month so get the fark out" policy.
 
2013-08-17 02:37:41 PM

skinink: Wish my town had a nuisance law. I have called the police on my neighbor three times in four months, but the landlord said his hands are tied so he's unable to evict her.


What are you calling the police for?  In middle school/ high school my dad had a neighbor who would call the police on us very frequently (sometimes several times a week) for "noise violations" often during the middle of the day.  We even had police waiting for us as we got home after being out for several hours because whenever there was any noise from anyone the police were called on us.

Plus this law could be easily abused, just call the police on someone you don't like a few times and they get evicted.
 
2013-08-17 02:38:16 PM

TuteTibiImperes: The article says that the police instructed her to get an order of protection but that she failed to do so.  Did the officers give her instructions on how to go about doing that?  Perhaps having officers provide instructions or even filling out the paperwork for it with the tenant at the scene would be a worthwhile step.



At what point does personal responsibility come into play here?  The woman's bat shiat crazy criminal boyfriend comes back and demands to live there.  I'm sorry but if there is one thing poor blacks know how to do well, it is how to access government services.....if she wanted to find out how to get a protection order she could....she didn't either out of fear or laziness.

Yes I agree that the penalty is harsh and that some people not at fault will be "collaterally" affected....but really, if the cops are being called to your house 4 or 5 times over a 90 day period you are living a farked up life.   You need to figure out how to change your circumstances instead of acting like a victim.    What these people don't realize is that all of their neighbors don't want the freaking drama either.
 
2013-08-17 02:39:44 PM

lewismarktwo: Spoken like someone who has disposable income and good credit.


Spoken like someone who is willing to make excuses for people who habitually making bad choices in life.

/It's a Darwin kind of thing...
 
2013-08-17 02:41:20 PM

lewismarktwo: iheartscotch: Maybe, just maybe; she should have moved and not told the dirtbag where to.

/ I'm all for making violent tenants move out; but, maybe there should be a protection order exemption or something

Spoken like someone who has disposable income and good credit.


I wouldn't say disposable income; but, I do have good credit.

But, that's beside the point. There are 90 million programs available for abused women. So many churches sponser programs that it's rediculous. If you don't want to deal with a church; there are PLENTY of charitable orginizations willing to help.

/ all you have to do is put out a minimal amount of effort.

// sometimes, all the help in the world isn't enough; sometimes abused women will take back the same dirtbag until he kills her.
 
2013-08-17 02:41:52 PM
Aww, how cute. Everyone in the article thinks the police have a duty to protect us...

It's not a right to call for help when the police have no obligation to answer the call with any urgency.
 
2013-08-17 02:42:41 PM
The police had been called to her home 10 times in the first five months of 2012 and said they had seen no evidence of physical injury.

You can feel for the woman, but in the real world many victims do not follow the advice of police or friends.  I bet the five times she called she refused to press charges.

If you do some research she also had called 911 on her daughter many times.

I would not want her for a neighbor.  The good of the many outweighs for the good of the one.

I have a friend who looks like Cheryl Ladd at 25.  She is so good looking that when we hang out we rarely have to pay a bar tab.  Yet she chooses to date criminals methheads, guys who like to fight, etc.  And something terrible always happens to her and she cannot see that she is the problem.
 
2013-08-17 02:43:51 PM

Eponymous: I'm sorry but if there is one thing poor blacks know how to do well, it is how to access government services


www.mannythemovieguy.com
 
2013-08-17 02:45:30 PM

Eponymous: lewismarktwo: Spoken like someone who has disposable income and good credit.

Spoken like someone who is willing to make excuses for people who habitually making bad choices in life.

/It's a Darwin kind of thing...


You need to wear some sort of camouflage if you want to get any kills.
 
2013-08-17 02:46:15 PM
I know someone who may be stepping into this scenario.

My opinion is that ultimately if the person you are living with is farking around with your life and police have to come more than twice you need to move the fark out.  Even if it is just under the influence of chemicals.

And this includes those not in the 'mainstream media' that live where Chris Brown does.

Having said that zero tolerance evictions without any social services help (probably for the female) are not going to have a good outcome.
 
2013-08-17 02:46:30 PM

theflatline: You can feel for the woman, but in the real world many victims do not follow the advice of police or friends. I bet the five times she called she refused to press charges.


I can't say much about those times, except:

TFA: her volatile boyfriend showed up last summer, fresh out of a jail stint for their previous fight
 
2013-08-17 02:47:08 PM

jtown: jake_lex: Whenever a "zero tolerance" policy is announced, you just know it's going to fail spectacularly in some way that does very serious harm to someone.

It's not a "zero tolerance" policy.  It's a "your life is disruptive to your neighbors and they shouldn't have to put up with having the cops in their yard at 3am several times per month so get the fark out" policy.


This. I only wish they added ambulances in too, as some fat trash two doors down from us would have them over weekly with ambulance and fire truck(s), likely because she was fat trash who refused to seek medical care any other way. I felt so bad for the responders who had to carry her 300lb+ arse down the stairs.

Also loved this FTA: Responding to the lawsuit, Norristown officials stressed that they had policies to protect victims of domestic abuse. They said Ms. Briggs had failed to comply with an instruction to obtain protection orders against Mr. Bennett and also against her troubled older daughter, then 19, with whom she had repeated arguments. The police had been called to her home 10 times in the first five months of 2012 and said they had seen no evidence of physical injury.

Yea, yet another case where some piece of shiat refuses to do the right thing, raises a shiat family the rest of us have to deal with, and in general, makes life miserable for everyone else. Too bad her ex's aim sucked on that neck stab.
 
2013-08-17 02:49:12 PM
you know, dumbass, the police do have another number that isn't 911
 
2013-08-17 02:49:12 PM

Relatively Obscure: theflatline: You can feel for the woman, but in the real world many victims do not follow the advice of police or friends. I bet the five times she called she refused to press charges.

I can't say much about those times, except:

TFA: her volatile boyfriend showed up last summer, fresh out of a jail stint for their previous fight


There is always "not opening the door" or "taking out a restraining order" defense.
 
2013-08-17 02:50:01 PM
Punishing the victim is stupid and short sighted. The real problem, the asshole boy or girlfriend or hubby will use this as a blackmail tactic. How about do some actual investigation instead of just punishing someone for using the 911 line?
Hard to say which is more stupid, this policy or the people defending it.
 
2013-08-17 02:50:22 PM

geekbikerskum: This sounds like the American version of an ASBO--and yes, from what I've read about ASBOs in Britain, they're a poor idea.


ASBO was going to cross the water. The the right to wear a hoodie in public should be challenged soon. People on ASBO probation can't wear them in Britain.
 
2013-08-17 02:53:02 PM

theflatline: Relatively Obscure: theflatline: You can feel for the woman, but in the real world many victims do not follow the advice of police or friends. I bet the five times she called she refused to press charges.

I can't say much about those times, except:

TFA: her volatile boyfriend showed up last summer, fresh out of a jail stint for their previous fight

There is always "not opening the door" or "taking out a restraining order" defense.


I'd think she should have, and that it should have been encouraged if it wasn't--along with showing her exactly how if she asks.  I don't know what she understood about her options or how to use available resources.  She could very well have brought much of this on herself in a way, I guess, but I dunno.  It feels weird to me to effectively punish someone for being a victim of a crime too many times.
 
2013-08-17 02:54:19 PM

Rand's lacy underwear: So what I got out of that was: Due process is being ignored, needs some kind of appeal process.

And maybe this should only count calls where you didn't get a protective order.

otherwise im-ok-with-this.jpg


Government never
1) works with common sense (look at the zero-tolerance laws in schools treating a kid with aspirin the same as a kid with crack)
2) works in the best interest of the citizens.  Their only purpose is to create work to justify their existence and hopeful expansion.
 
2013-08-17 02:54:25 PM

Kurmudgeon: Punishing the victim is stupid and short sighted. The real problem, the asshole boy or girlfriend or hubby will use this as a blackmail tactic. How about do some actual investigation instead of just punishing someone for using the 911 line?
Hard to say which is more stupid, this policy or the people defending it.


It's not punishing someone for calling 911, it's punishing someone for using 911 far more often than should ever be necessary.  Most people go their entire lives without ever dialing 911, or maybe needing it once or twice.

When the police have to come to your house 10 times in 5 months, that's once every two weeks, it shows that you have a problem managing your life.

There should be precautions in the system to prevent eviction if calling the police on someone violating a restraining order, or for third party activity going on outside your home, but if you need to call the police that often for situations inside your own home due to people you haven't kicked out, pressed charges on, or had restraining orders filed on, you're the problem.
 
2013-08-17 02:54:59 PM
The police department has OTHER PHONE NUMBERS that you're supposed to call in non-emergencies.  Betcha those numbers don't appear on the 911 list used with landlords.   She should have gone down to the poe-lease station and requested to see a judge about a restraining order.

Lack of education DOES make you stupid.
 
2013-08-17 03:03:00 PM
Thug life forever
 
2013-08-17 03:04:53 PM
What if there are medical emergencies?

If I'm reading this correctly she got evicted because she called the cops to prevent her abusive boyfriend from harming herself and her daughter.....

THAT'S THE FREAKING POINT OF HAVING 911 IN THE FIRST PLACE.

/making it illegal to report crime does not make the crime disappear.

//I seriously cannot believe anybody is defending this.
 
2013-08-17 03:06:01 PM

prjindigo: The police department has OTHER PHONE NUMBERS that you're supposed to call in non-emergencies.  Betcha those numbers don't appear on the 911 list used with landlords.   She should have gone down to the poe-lease station and requested to see a judge about a restraining order.


murmolka.com
 
2013-08-17 03:08:03 PM

tzzhc4: prjindigo: The police department has OTHER PHONE NUMBERS that you're supposed to call in non-emergencies.  Betcha those numbers don't appear on the 911 list used with landlords.   She should have gone down to the poe-lease station and requested to see a judge about a restraining order.

[murmolka.com image 500x275]


Aaaaand that's going to be stuck in my head again for a few hours.
 
2013-08-17 03:08:05 PM

Warlordtrooper: What if there are medical emergencies?

If I'm reading this correctly she got evicted because she called the cops to prevent her abusive boyfriend from harming herself and her daughter.....

THAT'S THE FREAKING POINT OF HAVING 911 IN THE FIRST PLACE.

/making it illegal to report crime does not make the crime disappear.

//I seriously cannot believe anybody is defending this.


She called ten times in a short amount of time.  She could have taken the polices advice and got a restraining order.  But she didn't, some people like playing the victim.

So why should her neighbors suffer for her ex and deadbeat kid?
 
2013-08-17 03:09:45 PM

iheartscotch: Maybe, just maybe; she should have moved and not told the dirtbag where to.


In this case she did, but that's not always an option. Finding a place you can afford can be expensive since it's not uncommon for landlords to ask for first and last month's rent plus a hefty security deposit, all which tends to be in the thousands of dollars. Money which many people simply don't have, especially if they're working a minimum wage job.
 
2013-08-17 03:10:15 PM

theflatline: She called ten times in a short amount of time.  She could have taken the polices advice and got a restraining order.  But she didn't, some people like playing the victim.

So why should her neighbors suffer for her ex and deadbeat kid?


You're blaming the woman for the guy showing up to her house and causing problems.
Was she wearing a short dress too?  Do you think she was just asking for it?
 
2013-08-17 03:11:52 PM

lewismarktwo: iheartscotch: Maybe, just maybe; she should have moved and not told the dirtbag where to.

/ I'm all for making violent tenants move out; but, maybe there should be a protection order exemption or something

Spoken like someone who has disposable income and good credit.


We have to protect her from every crappy decision she makes? Some of us already have children
 
2013-08-17 03:14:08 PM
I feel a sorry for the woman. I feel very happy for her neighbors.
 
2013-08-17 03:14:32 PM

satanorsanta: skinink: Wish my town had a nuisance law. I have called the police on my neighbor three times in four months, but the landlord said his hands are tied so he's unable to evict her.

What are you calling the police for?  In middle school/ high school my dad had a neighbor who would call the police on us very frequently (sometimes several times a week) for "noise violations" often during the middle of the day.  We even had police waiting for us as we got home after being out for several hours because whenever there was any noise from anyone the police were called on us.

Plus this law could be easily abused, just call the police on someone you don't like a few times and they get evicted.


Forget the fact that the landlord backed me and told me to call the cops on them and even the building super saw they are a problem tenant. This particular event happened back in January when Boston had a snowstorm so bad Boston had a State of Emergency and non essential workers were told to stay home.

The day following the snowstorm whoever the guys were that were staying with her had a massive fight in the apartment that then spilled out into the hallway. Then one of the guys kept screaming at her to put down the knife, followed by one of them breaking her door down. Fark that shiat, I called the cops and I didn't care if they had to use sled dogs to make it to my place. They had to come.

She's a bad tenant who should have been evicted months ago.
 
2013-08-17 03:14:44 PM

Warlordtrooper: theflatline: She called ten times in a short amount of time.  She could have taken the polices advice and got a restraining order.  But she didn't, some people like playing the victim.

So why should her neighbors suffer for her ex and deadbeat kid?

You're blaming the woman for the guy showing up to her house and causing problems.
Was she wearing a short dress too?  Do you think she was just asking for it?


Given that she failed to get the protective order as instructed yes she was asking for it.  There has to be some consequence for stupid eventually.
 
2013-08-17 03:17:14 PM

xaldin: Warlordtrooper: theflatline: She called ten times in a short amount of time.  She could have taken the polices advice and got a restraining order.  But she didn't, some people like playing the victim.

So why should her neighbors suffer for her ex and deadbeat kid?

You're blaming the woman for the guy showing up to her house and causing problems.
Was she wearing a short dress too?  Do you think she was just asking for it?

Given that she failed to get the protective order as instructed yes she was asking for it.  There has to be some consequence for stupid eventually.


Ah but in the Zimmerman threads, I was told that there is no obligation to listen to the police....  So which is it?
 
2013-08-17 03:19:14 PM

Warlordtrooper: theflatline: She called ten times in a short amount of time.  She could have taken the polices advice and got a restraining order.  But she didn't, some people like playing the victim.

So why should her neighbors suffer for her ex and deadbeat kid?

You're blaming the woman for the guy showing up to her house and causing problems.
Was she wearing a short dress too?  Do you think she was just asking for it?


Actually if you RTFA she also called the cops on her daughter multiple times as well.  So resources are wasted for Chicken Little?

Look, I can fee for the abused but when you keep putting yourself in bad situations, it gets old.  And who wants to leave next to someone with a high amount of drama.

The boyfriend I can understand, but the daughter as well.  This shows me she is a drama queen who makes bad decisions, regrets them and calls the cops.  Why should her neighbors be subjected to that?

If I live in a building and my neighbir calls the cops ten times in 1 month, she needs to go.
 
2013-08-17 03:20:26 PM

Warlordtrooper: xaldin: Warlordtrooper: theflatline: She called ten times in a short amount of time.  She could have taken the polices advice and got a restraining order.  But she didn't, some people like playing the victim.

So why should her neighbors suffer for her ex and deadbeat kid?

You're blaming the woman for the guy showing up to her house and causing problems.
Was she wearing a short dress too?  Do you think she was just asking for it?

Given that she failed to get the protective order as instructed yes she was asking for it.  There has to be some consequence for stupid eventually.

Ah but in the Zimmerman threads, I was told that there is no obligation to listen to the police....  So which is it?


Zimmerman never talked to the police.....
 
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