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(JSOnline)   This just in: People are assholes whether they're driving, walking or riding bikes   (jsonline.com) divider line 72
    More: Obvious, Milwaukee, E. Irving Place, right of ways, Old Milwaukee, pedestrian safety, personal injury lawyer, crosswalks, traffic officer  
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4028 clicks; posted to Main » on 17 Aug 2013 at 12:09 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-08-17 02:49:05 PM  

Zarquon's Flat Tire: When I'm drivong I hate pedestrians. When I'm walking I hate motorists, but no matter what I hate cyclists.

-I don't remember who

Ever notice scooter riders and motorcyclists don't pull the stupid shiat bike riders do?


You mean like zipping through slower traffic and changing lanes at 70mph? Noooooo...not at all!

*eyeroll*
 
2013-08-17 02:54:51 PM  

tkil: DigitalCoffee: [...] while in an unmarked crosswalk.

Around here we just call that space 'road'. And crossing in the 'road' where there is no crosswalk is considered jaywalking (unless in an area with specific signage that gives pedestrians right of way regardless of road markings (or lack thereof)).

Maybe not.  Your profile says Florida, so what's an unmarked crosswalk for you?
http://www.jimdodsonlaw.com/faqs/what-constitutes-an-unmarked-crossw al k-in-florida-.cfm

And what's jaywalking?
http://www.lawteam.com/faq/car-accident/is-jaywalking-illegal-in-flo ri da/

It's a bit more nuanced than "marked or the pedestrian is screwed".


I believe in Florida every intersection is technically bounded by crosswalks, whether marked or not, and whether the sidewalk is paved or not.

http://iyield4peds.org/2012/06/surprising-aspects-of-florida-pedestri a n-laws/

Sorry no linky
 
2013-08-17 03:04:33 PM  

offmymeds: Zarquon's Flat Tire: When I'm drivong I hate pedestrians. When I'm walking I hate motorists, but no matter what I hate cyclists.

-I don't remember who

Ever notice scooter riders and motorcyclists don't pull the stupid shiat bike riders do?

You mean like zipping through slower traffic and changing lanes at 70mph? Noooooo...not at all!

*eyeroll*


To be fair, that's DIFFERENT stupid shiat. : )

But if they're not hitting your car, or holding you up, why do you care what motorcycles do? I can see getting annoyed that a bicycle is forcing you to do 15 in a 35, but every motorcycle on the road means you get where you're going sooner. Why the hate? Is it just that you're angry about not being "first"?
 
2013-08-17 03:08:03 PM  
The article is spot on. Drivers in Milwaukee rarely yield to pedestrians. And on the off chance they do, it's still dangerous because the driver behind them will speed around the stopped car through the marked crosswalk. There's one at the end of my street that I use almost daily, and I'd estimate that a second car stops maybe 5% of the time. And that's if a driver actually sees the big "Yield to pedestrians" sign that is in on the center line.

Also, drivers making a right on a red light usually don't come to a full stop and only look to their left for oncoming traffic, ignoring the possibility of a pedestrian crossing from their right. I've seen an old lady in a walker get knocked over this way, and the cop across the street did nothing about it, just turned on his lights and sped off to another call.

I think quite a bit of this has to do with John "Bring me that apple, sweetie" Norquist's war on pedestrians in the 90's.

Ken VeryBigLiar: Because every jackoff takes advantage of pedestrian right of way and crosses on red or i the middle of streets like Water and Wisconsin downtown.


It's actually safer to cross in the middle of the street, if there's no traffic, because of what I mentioned above. And since the jaywalking law in Milwaukee only applies to crossing w/in 100 feet of a red light at a crosswalk, it's perfectly legal.
 
2013-08-17 03:15:16 PM  

Burn_The_Plows: It's actually safer to cross in the middle of the street, if there's no traffic, because of what I mentioned above. And since the jaywalking law in Milwaukee only applies to crossing w/in 100 feet of a red light at a crosswalk, it's perfectly legal.


So even when some numb nut comes running out McGillycuddy's at bar time and goes on a dead sprint across Water because "ZOMG hotdog cart!!!!!" or the Marquette people decide that any random spot on W Wisconsin is totally cool to cross while they're moving at a glacial pace and texting while they walk across the street?

/Color me skeptical
//Lived on W Wisconsin too long to objective however...
 
2013-08-17 03:19:13 PM  

Z-clipped: The physics of Carth's claim are pretty simple, but his assumptions are wrong. On flat ground in a city carrying a bag, reasonable top speed on a bicycle is about 16mph, not 25. (25mph is second tier elite cyclist flat sprint territory.)


Uh.. .bullshiat. 25mph is not hard to do at all.

/amateur cyclist
//about a dozen or so century rides
///can easily maintain 28mph on the flats for a dozen miles or so
////slash-o-matic
 
2013-08-17 03:35:16 PM  

Z-clipped: offmymeds: Zarquon's Flat Tire: When I'm drivong I hate pedestrians. When I'm walking I hate motorists, but no matter what I hate cyclists.

-I don't remember who

Ever notice scooter riders and motorcyclists don't pull the stupid shiat bike riders do?

You mean like zipping through slower traffic and changing lanes at 70mph? Noooooo...not at all!

*eyeroll*

To be fair, that's DIFFERENT stupid shiat. : )

But if they're not hitting your car, or holding you up, why do you care what motorcycles do? I can see getting annoyed that a bicycle is forcing you to do 15 in a 35, but every motorcycle on the road means you get where you're going sooner. Why the hate? Is it just that you're angry about not being "first"?


I don't have a problem with motorcyclists. Most of them are pretty good people; my neighbor for instance. But when some kid on a scooter comes blasting through rush hour traffic at 90+ mph, changing lanes and narrowly avoiding being hit by someone then I have a problem. The kid's not only putting himself in harm's way, he's also endangering the lives of people just trying to get home. How about the guy who suddenly slams on his brakes when the scooter guy suddenly appears in front of him? It's not about me being first either. I hate it when some jerk in a Dodge Ram comes barreling up behind me and staying about 3 ft. away until he can have a chance to pass. I don't have any problem with bicycle riders either. They don't create anywhere near the problems that some motorists do. Not for me at least.
 
2013-08-17 03:37:07 PM  

rikkitikkitavi: Z-clipped: The physics of Carth's claim are pretty simple, but his assumptions are wrong. On flat ground in a city carrying a bag, reasonable top speed on a bicycle is about 16mph, not 25. (25mph is second tier elite cyclist flat sprint territory.)

Uh.. .bullshiat. 25mph is not hard to do at all.

/amateur cyclist
//about a dozen or so century rides
///can easily maintain 28mph on the flats for a dozen miles or so
////slash-o-matic


On city streets, in traffic, with a messenger bag? The average cyclist isn't hitting 25.

I worked as a bike courier in a major city for years, and was pretty fit (and no, I didn't ride a fixie). Between the potholes cars and peds, and short city blocks, 15 or 16 was pushing it except for short sprints.
 
2013-08-17 04:22:35 PM  
As my grandfather used to say "Each and every one of them is a bunch of assholes"
 
2013-08-17 05:27:07 PM  

noitsnot: The whole city of Milwaulkee is about the size of a football field.  How can they have so many problems?


i believe milwaukee is just as big if not bigger than the city of boston...
 
2013-08-17 05:30:17 PM  
If more people were killed on the spot when they acted like assholes, people would make more of an effort to not be assholes and the world would be a better place.
 
2013-08-17 05:34:12 PM  
Reaperducer didn't like that, so instead of moving predictably with the rest of the peds, he intentionally knocked the guy off his bike like an asshat because he's the type who would rather inconvenience himself and risk injury to "teach someone a lesson", than let someone get away with breaking a rule, even harmlessly.

I'm that kind of person too.  I'll take a bruise and a scrape if I can knock some douche on his ass.
 
2013-08-17 05:35:52 PM  

Pick: Gainesville is full of aloof bicycle riders that make left turns across traffic, don't stop at stop signs or red lights, weave in and out of traffic, etc. And if you think that's bad, you should see what the people in motor vehicles do. Motorcycleists are by far the most well behaved, courtesy riders.


Why thank you.  We're in Denver, not Gainsville, but I would agree that most who ride motorcycles tend to be a bit more courteous than those in cars and I think that's because riders and their passengers have a heightened awareness of if I'm hit, I may die/become paralyzed/etc.  Not all, there's always a few bad, bad apples who swerve in and out of lanes or ride the line.  By and large, though, riders have to be more aware of their surroundings and play nice, otherwise, it's into the morgue with ye.  We nearly got taken out by a lady in a mini-van last year going about 15 MPH.  She wasn't paying attention and had the nerve to honk and cuss us out in the middle of a traffic circle when she was the one who should've yielded and didn't.

/passenger on motorcycle
//would like to get my own, but that's a ways in the future
 
2013-08-17 05:49:19 PM  

Z-clipped: Jument: reaperducer: Carth:
Unless you are 400-500 lbs or the cyclists was moving under 10 mph that never happened. A cyclist (blowing a red) at full speed will hit you harder than an NFL linebacker since they're moving 20-25 mph

My real world experience tells me that your made-up numbers don't work.

Sounds like a job for Mythbusters.

The physics of Carth's claim are pretty simple, but his assumptions are wrong. On flat ground in a city carrying a bag, reasonable top speed on a bicycle is about 16mph, not 25. (25mph is second tier elite cyclist flat sprint territory.)

A 240lb linebacker running at top speed (say, 14mph) will hit with about the same KE as a 180lb cyclist at 16mph.

This is, of course assuming that a cyclist rode full speed at a crowd of people against a red-lit intersection hoping that everyone would scatter and he wouldn't get killed by cross-traffic from cars, which is the part I find unlikely.

What PROBABLY happened is that a cyclist slowed down to about 6-7 mph, and tried to pick his way through a crosswalk with people in it. Reaperducer didn't like that, so instead of moving predictably with the rest of the peds, he intentionally knocked the guy off his bike like an asshat because he's the type who would rather inconvenience himself and risk injury to "teach someone a lesson", than let someone get away with breaking a rule, even harmlessly.


I'm sorry, I'm going to need to see high speed of Jamie ramming a bike into Adam.
 
2013-08-17 06:03:21 PM  

reaperducer: Carth:
Unless you are 400-500 lbs or the cyclists was moving under 10 mph that never happened. A cyclist (blowing a red) at full speed will hit you harder than an NFL linebacker since they're moving 20-25 mph

My real world experience tells me that your made-up numbers don't work.


I forget the laws of physics don't apply on fark. When a cyclist hits a pedestrian this is what normally happens. Now, if the one who hit you realized they were about to hit someone and slowed down to 4-5 mph your story is more believable. But a cyclist blowing a red and hits you full speed? Yea if all that happens is you get knocked down you're lucky: pedestrians are killed when that happens sometimes.
 
2013-08-17 07:22:39 PM  

Ken VeryBigLiar: noitsnot: The whole city of Milwaulkee is about the size of a football field.  How can they have so many problems?

Because every jackoff takes advantage of pedestrian right of way and crosses on red or i the middle of streets like Water and Wisconsin downtown.  Mostly it's drunks and Marquette people that seem to do this.  It's almost as bad as bicyclist around the Capitol square in Madison.

/Lock and load on the lot of them...


NOTHING is as bad as some bicyclists in Madison, unless it's UW students on mopeds during class change....
 
2013-08-17 07:23:16 PM  
The pedestrian first rules are quite consistent, but their enforcement is not. I lived in Michigan for several years, and pedestrians took their lives into their hands when venturing across a roadway. Now living in New Hampshire, I see drivers stopping to allow pedestrians to cross several times a day.
 
2013-08-17 07:36:43 PM  
Go ahead and tell that cyclist that they were at fault for their accident because they were dodging and weaving around traffic without even looking where they were going. NEWS FLASH: the percentage of cyclists that are dangerous assholes is equal to or greater than the percentage of drivers who dangerous are assholes.
 
2013-08-17 11:25:50 PM  
Pedestrians should try not walking in front of cars, its a bit safer.
 
2013-08-18 12:14:15 AM  

Z-clipped: Jument: reaperducer: Carth:
Unless you are 400-500 lbs or the cyclists was moving under 10 mph that never happened. A cyclist (blowing a red) at full speed will hit you harder than an NFL linebacker since they're moving 20-25 mph

My real world experience tells me that your made-up numbers don't work.

Sounds like a job for Mythbusters.

The physics of Carth's claim are pretty simple, but his assumptions are wrong. On flat ground in a city carrying a bag, reasonable top speed on a bicycle is about 16mph, not 25. (25mph is second tier elite cyclist flat sprint territory.)

A 240lb linebacker running at top speed (say, 14mph) will hit with about the same KE as a 180lb cyclist at 16mph.

This is, of course assuming that a cyclist rode full speed at a crowd of people against a red-lit intersection hoping that everyone would scatter and he wouldn't get killed by cross-traffic from cars, which is the part I find unlikely.

What PROBABLY happened is that a cyclist slowed down to about 6-7 mph, and tried to pick his way through a crosswalk with people in it. Reaperducer didn't like that, so instead of moving predictably with the rest of the peds, he intentionally knocked the guy off his bike like an asshat because he's the type who would rather inconvenience himself and risk injury to "teach someone a lesson", than let someone get away with breaking a rule, even harmlessly.


Bull Farking Shiat.  I'm a slightly chubby, a bit out of shape mid 30's guy who rides a Trek 7300 with gears and chains that have not been changed for 15,000 miles.  Yeah, the 24 speeds I used to have are now about 8 due to excessive wear.

I haven't ridden more than maybe 800 miles in the past three years.  I have absolutely no problem reaching speeds of 23mph for a mile sprint.  A light cruise of 18 mph isn't hard to achieve.  My bike is hardly elite.  It's meant for light commuting and cruising down greenbelts for recreational rides.  At my peak I've reaches speeds of 33mph on the flat.  On a commuter bike, not the bikes the speed demons ride.  That was not with a tail wind either.

A road bike doing 25mph should be considered going at a fast cruising speed.  Not a sprint, just a 10-15 mile long ride without excessive amounts of exertion.
 
2013-08-18 08:13:38 AM  
Smeggy Smurf
A road bike doing 25mph should be considered going at a fast cruising speed. Not a sprint, just a 10-15 mile long ride without excessive amounts of exertion.


As someone whose bicycle has been his main form of transportation and has done (ten) thousands of miles on a stationary bike, I'll have to return you "bull farking shiat" or question if you reached your speed in both directions (one can easily misjudge slight inclinations in what one thinks of as "flat", but they can make quite a difference).

If you were talking about 25 kph, I would agree, but not mph; at least not with a trekking/allround bike with 28" tires.

For example, the bicycle route calculator for my city uses 20kph as its default base riding speed to calculate the time you'll need (stops due to # of traffic lights etc are added later) for its suggested path. The it lists the times needed at 10,15 and 25 kph for comparison.

I'm usually riding at around 25kph (+/- 3) according to the cheap speedometer thingee on my bike.
Granted, I've gotten heavier and the bent back axle and probably also the rim of the bike I use badly needs replacing and I guess I was closer to 30 (+/- 3) 5-10 years ago, but even back then your 30kph (19mph) for those 10-15 miles would have been closer to exercise (and probably anaerob exercise at that) than a "cruising" or commuting speed - or supported by going slightly downhill.

As a matter of fact, for 3+ years my (literally!) daily exercise on the stationary bike (i.e. weight of the rider not an issue compared to riding a real bike) was about 12.5 miles at 20mph with slightly over 90 rotations per minute (*).
While I had no problem doing 2 or 3 times the distance on occasion - like, spending the entire soccer match I was watching on the bike instead of just one halftime to make up for a "missed" day - I would be soaking wet from the sweat even after my "normal" distance.
25mph is definitely not just "fast cruising speed".

(*) my, as a repair technician once called it, "boring granny bike" didn't have a higher resistance setting; sometimes I would've liked a bit more, but from riding other stationary bikes or simply hauling my fat ass over hills on the real bike, anything more than "a bit" would likely have been bad for my knees
 
2013-08-18 04:13:30 PM  

The Voice of Doom: 25mph is definitely not just "fast cruising speed".


Depends on the person. On rides of around 40-60 miles my last three average speeds on GPS data have been 24mph, 26mph and 25mph looking at gps data. High is usually upper 40s downhill lows in the high teens going up hills. My daily commute my average speed is 21mph because I take a bike path and only have to worry about one traffic light. Of course I'm riding a road bike not a cruiser, fixie or hybrid. A perfectly flat commute of 10 miles with one or two traffic lights? Yea you could average 25 mph on the right bike.
 
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