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(NJ.com)   Gov. Christie conditionally vetoes kids medical marijuana bill, presumably under the 'more for me' doctrine   (nj.com) divider line 98
    More: Interesting, vetoes, marijuana, Chris Christie  
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1532 clicks; posted to Politics » on 16 Aug 2013 at 4:46 PM (49 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



98 Comments   (+0 »)
   
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
2013-08-16 04:49:08 PM
GOP: killing kids for outdated morality.
 
2013-08-16 04:51:53 PM
Christie agreed to allow production of ingestible forms of pot at state-approved dispensaries and to allow dispensaries to grow more than three strains of the drug.

They have the weirdest farking rules with all these new mmj laws, each state has their own idiotic rules and restrictions, that seem to come out of nowhere.
 
2013-08-16 04:54:15 PM

ikanreed: GOP: killing kids for outdated morality.


Christie vetoed the bill to make a couple minor changes to the law, and then he will sign it. One of the requirements was to modify it so kids can only get the edible form, which isn't the most unreasonable of objections.
 
2013-08-16 04:56:19 PM

Headso: Christie agreed to allow production of ingestible forms of pot at state-approved dispensaries and to allow dispensaries to grow more than three strains of the drug.

They have the weirdest farking rules with all these new mmj laws, each state has their own idiotic rules and restrictions, that seem to come out of nowhere.


Not really, if you're approving it for treatment, you want to actually have predictable, medically documented effects.  Just going "whatever, have some pot" is not the point of medical marijuana. Just plain legalizing it would be better, but that's not what they're doing, and they shouldn't act like it.
 
2013-08-16 04:57:59 PM
If Christie is gonna sell out to the Repub base to help him in 2016, you'd think he'd pick guns not pot. Makes no farking sense.
 
2013-08-16 04:58:14 PM
I don't agree with everything he says, and I think he has the propensity to be a colossal asshole when the need isn't entirely there, but I agree with him on this.

He's probably the best bet the republican party has of winning a presidential election, but the cons aren't going to allow him in, so...
 
2013-08-16 05:00:14 PM

ikanreed: Headso: Christie agreed to allow production of ingestible forms of pot at state-approved dispensaries and to allow dispensaries to grow more than three strains of the drug.

They have the weirdest farking rules with all these new mmj laws, each state has their own idiotic rules and restrictions, that seem to come out of nowhere.

Not really, if you're approving it for treatment, you want to actually have predictable, medically documented effects.  Just going "whatever, have some pot" is not the point of medical marijuana. Just plain legalizing it would be better, but that's not what they're doing, and they shouldn't act like it.


No, it makes sense, even from the perspective you were trying to take. If you standardize production you can ingest it predictably, like, I dunno... a pill!
 
2013-08-16 05:01:43 PM

Ow! That was my feelings!: If Christie is gonna sell out to the Repub base to help him in 2016, you'd think he'd pick guns not pot. Makes no farking sense.


Why not both?

Christie signs 10 gun bills
 
2013-08-16 05:03:12 PM
Now that marijuana can be considered medically necessary can apartments, hotels etc keep you from smoking in your room? If you have a disability that requires you to smoke medication can they discriminate against you?
 
2013-08-16 05:03:37 PM
STOP WEED SMOKING
 
2013-08-16 05:07:01 PM

ikanreed: Headso: Christie agreed to allow production of ingestible forms of pot at state-approved dispensaries and to allow dispensaries to grow more than three strains of the drug.

They have the weirdest farking rules with all these new mmj laws, each state has their own idiotic rules and restrictions, that seem to come out of nowhere.

Not really, if you're approving it for treatment, you want to actually have predictable, medically documented effects.  Just going "whatever, have some pot" is not the point of medical marijuana. Just plain legalizing it would be better, but that's not what they're doing, and they shouldn't act like it.


it seemed that up until now the rules stated dispensaries could only grow 3 strains of pot, that's odd. Not really sure what your response has to do with that either.
 
2013-08-16 05:07:49 PM
Reading comprehension: not yours, subtard.
 
2013-08-16 05:07:59 PM

Carth: Now that marijuana can be considered medically necessary can apartments, hotels etc keep you from smoking in your room? If you have a disability that requires you to smoke medication can they discriminate against you?


Good question. There are already non-smoking rooms. Maybe they will have to designate a certain percentage pot allowed rooms.
Of course, we reserve the right not to serve anyone for any reason.
 
2013-08-16 05:08:24 PM

Carth: Now that marijuana can be considered medically necessary can apartments, hotels etc keep you from smoking in your room? If you have a disability that requires you to smoke medication can they discriminate against you?


Couple of things here -- marijuana is still classified as a Schedule 1 narcotic so doctors cannot prescribe it, they can only recommend it. Secondly I would imagine any cigarette smoking bans would also apply to marijuana smoking. Third, smoking marijuana is one of many ways to ingest it, so smoking isn't necessarily required for patients to take their medication.
 
2013-08-16 05:08:50 PM

Witty_Retort: Ow! That was my feelings!: If Christie is gonna sell out to the Repub base to help him in 2016, you'd think he'd pick guns not pot. Makes no farking sense.

Why not both?

Christie signs 10 gun bills


and he still hasn't moved on the 'controversial' ones. He has no chance to win the Repub Nom if he signs them, making a "conservative" stand on Cannabis pointless.
 
2013-08-16 05:09:40 PM

WhoIsWillo: ikanreed: GOP: killing kids for outdated morality.

Christie vetoed the bill to make a couple minor changes to the law, and then he will sign it. One of the requirements was to modify it so kids can only get the edible form, which isn't the most unreasonable of objections.


Edibles are harder to dose dose right (easier to take too much) and can take hours to take affect. On top of that, one of the most common uses for MJ is to treat nausea and vomiting, which is hard to do when you have to eat the medicine and wait for it to be digested.
 
2013-08-16 05:10:23 PM
He said he also feared any easing of the rules that would enable people to abuse the drug for recreational purposes.

Because that never happens now.
 
2013-08-16 05:12:59 PM

Karma Chameleon: He said he also feared any easing of the rules that would enable people to abuse the drug for recreational purposes.

Because that never happens now.


I'll drink to that
thankheavenforbeer.com

/doesn't actually drink
 
2013-08-16 05:19:09 PM

Karma Chameleon: He said he also feared any easing of the rules that would enable people to abuse the drug for recreational purposes.

Because that never happens now.


24.media.tumblr.com
 
2013-08-16 05:30:45 PM

ikanreed: Not really, if you're approving it for treatment, you want to actually have predictable, medically documented effects.


Then you pass rules like 'all product sold must be labeled with the THC level, within set tolerances'.  'No more than 3 strains' doesn't really improve predictability, because the 3 different strains don't have to be shared between clinics, and only offering 3 means that they're likely to be pretty far apart.

For example, the stuff being given to the child is specifically a low THC level plant, with a different chemical being in far larger proportion, and is being administered in oil form, not being smoked.
 
2013-08-16 05:36:52 PM
Those public defenders can't fund themselves.
 
2013-08-16 05:40:38 PM
he was not comfortable allowing children to consume the drug without more evidence it won't cause harm.

You are not a doctor.

fark your opinion.

He said he also feared any easing of the rules that would enable people to abuse the drug for recreational purposes.

Jesus Christ. God forbid.
 
2013-08-16 05:44:48 PM

Dusk-You-n-Me: Carth: Now that marijuana can be considered medically necessary can apartments, hotels etc keep you from smoking in your room? If you have a disability that requires you to smoke medication can they discriminate against you?

Couple of things here -- marijuana is still classified as a Schedule 1 narcotic so doctors cannot prescribe it, they can only recommend it. Secondly I would imagine any cigarette smoking bans would also apply to marijuana smoking. Third, smoking marijuana is one of many ways to ingest it, so smoking isn't necessarily required for patients to take their medication.


Thanks I wasn't sure how it would work. I know almost all hotel rooms will bring you a refrigerator free if your medication requires it and guide dogs can't be kept out even if there is a no animal policy. I wasn't sure if medical marijuana would get the same treatment despite the fact it could annoy other patrons.
 
2013-08-16 05:47:46 PM

ShawnDoc: Edibles are harder to dose dose right


That's the stupidest thing I've ever heard.
 
2013-08-16 05:47:58 PM

ShawnDoc: WhoIsWillo: ikanreed: GOP: killing kids for outdated morality.

Christie vetoed the bill to make a couple minor changes to the law, and then he will sign it. One of the requirements was to modify it so kids can only get the edible form, which isn't the most unreasonable of objections.

Edibles are harder to dose dose right (easier to take too much) and can take hours to take affect. On top of that, one of the most common uses for MJ is to treat nausea and vomiting, which is hard to do when you have to eat the medicine and wait for it to be digested.


IIRC from a story about another kid who used medical marijuana to treat seizures, the parents used an oil infused with the extract to give to the kid, which makes it likely they could control the dose better than cooking brownies with it or something, and also saves the kid from having to inhale smoke.
 
2013-08-16 05:49:38 PM

Carth: Dusk-You-n-Me: Carth: Now that marijuana can be considered medically necessary can apartments, hotels etc keep you from smoking in your room? If you have a disability that requires you to smoke medication can they discriminate against you?

Couple of things here -- marijuana is still classified as a Schedule 1 narcotic so doctors cannot prescribe it, they can only recommend it. Secondly I would imagine any cigarette smoking bans would also apply to marijuana smoking. Third, smoking marijuana is one of many ways to ingest it, so smoking isn't necessarily required for patients to take their medication.

Thanks I wasn't sure how it would work. I know almost all hotel rooms will bring you a refrigerator free if your medication requires it and guide dogs can't be kept out even if there is a no animal policy. I wasn't sure if medical marijuana would get the same treatment despite the fact it could annoy other patrons.


Patients could use edibles, and I've seen vaporizers on TV that look like they come with a big plastic bag that collects all of the vapor, allowing the user to just suck the THC vapor out of the bag without much of any escaping into the room.
 
2013-08-16 05:49:58 PM

WhoIsWillo: ikanreed: GOP: killing kids for outdated morality.

Christie vetoed the bill to make a couple minor changes to the law, and then he will sign it. One of the requirements was to modify it so kids can only get the edible form, which isn't the most unreasonable of objections.


As humorous as this is to me, I'm going to have to agree: Leave the GOPer alone, he's not being stupid.
 
2013-08-16 05:51:54 PM

Lsherm: That's the stupidest thing I've ever heard.


What the f*ck do you know? Now if you'll excuse me, I'm going to go light up a tylenol liquigel because I don't trust the pill to properly dose me.
 
2013-08-16 05:54:19 PM

ikanreed: Headso: Christie agreed to allow production of ingestible forms of pot at state-approved dispensaries and to allow dispensaries to grow more than three strains of the drug.

They have the weirdest farking rules with all these new mmj laws, each state has their own idiotic rules and restrictions, that seem to come out of nowhere.

Not really, if you're approving it for treatment, you want to actually have predictable, medically documented effects.  Just going "whatever, have some pot" is not the point of medical marijuana. Just plain legalizing it would be better, but that's not what they're doing, and they shouldn't act like it.


I've thought about the incredibly varied medical marijuana laws in various states, from CA where pretty much anyone can just get a card for whatever reason to places where it's strictly controlled and real doctors have to be on board with a small list of medically acceptable uses.

On one hand I like CA's approach because it makes it only a split hair away from legal for recreational purposes, but at the same time I wonder if the easy access through the medical program in CA was one of the reasons the state's vote to legalize for recreational purposes failed.  I know a lot of the growers and dispensaries were worried about corporate interests taking over if it were made fully legal, but it seems that those who would want to use it recreationally could have easily outvoted them.  However, if those wanting to use it recreationally already have medical MJ cards, they might not have been as motivated to go out and vote it in as fully legal.
 
2013-08-16 06:03:16 PM

TuteTibiImperes: ikanreed: Headso: Christie agreed to allow production of ingestible forms of pot at state-approved dispensaries and to allow dispensaries to grow more than three strains of the drug.

They have the weirdest farking rules with all these new mmj laws, each state has their own idiotic rules and restrictions, that seem to come out of nowhere.

Not really, if you're approving it for treatment, you want to actually have predictable, medically documented effects.  Just going "whatever, have some pot" is not the point of medical marijuana. Just plain legalizing it would be better, but that's not what they're doing, and they shouldn't act like it.

I've thought about the incredibly varied medical marijuana laws in various states, from CA where pretty much anyone can just get a card for whatever reason to places where it's strictly controlled and real doctors have to be on board with a small list of medically acceptable uses.

On one hand I like CA's approach because it makes it only a split hair away from legal for recreational purposes, but at the same time I wonder if the easy access through the medical program in CA was one of the reasons the state's vote to legalize for recreational purposes failed.  I know a lot of the growers and dispensaries were worried about corporate interests taking over if it were made fully legal, but it seems that those who would want to use it recreationally could have easily outvoted them.  However, if those wanting to use it recreationally already have medical MJ cards, they might not have been as motivated to go out and vote it in as fully legal.


Damn Tute, you have to be the most concerned person on Fark. It didn't work that way in Colorado at all. Hell, we passed it with almost 55% of the vote.
 
2013-08-16 06:08:01 PM

Ow! That was my feelings!: TuteTibiImperes: ikanreed: Headso: Christie agreed to allow production of ingestible forms of pot at state-approved dispensaries and to allow dispensaries to grow more than three strains of the drug.

They have the weirdest farking rules with all these new mmj laws, each state has their own idiotic rules and restrictions, that seem to come out of nowhere.

Not really, if you're approving it for treatment, you want to actually have predictable, medically documented effects.  Just going "whatever, have some pot" is not the point of medical marijuana. Just plain legalizing it would be better, but that's not what they're doing, and they shouldn't act like it.

I've thought about the incredibly varied medical marijuana laws in various states, from CA where pretty much anyone can just get a card for whatever reason to places where it's strictly controlled and real doctors have to be on board with a small list of medically acceptable uses.

On one hand I like CA's approach because it makes it only a split hair away from legal for recreational purposes, but at the same time I wonder if the easy access through the medical program in CA was one of the reasons the state's vote to legalize for recreational purposes failed.  I know a lot of the growers and dispensaries were worried about corporate interests taking over if it were made fully legal, but it seems that those who would want to use it recreationally could have easily outvoted them.  However, if those wanting to use it recreationally already have medical MJ cards, they might not have been as motivated to go out and vote it in as fully legal.

Damn Tute, you have to be the most concerned person on Fark. It didn't work that way in Colorado at all. Hell, we passed it with almost 55% of the vote.


I'm not familiar with the CO medical MJ rules before they legalized.  Was it was easy to obtain as it was in CA?  I just like looking at the issues from all the angles, oftentimes cause and effect aren't as clear cut as they look on the surface.
 
2013-08-16 06:09:53 PM
I still think he should put "P.S. GET THE HELL OFF THE BEACH" at the end of every piece of legislation.
 
2013-08-16 06:12:58 PM

TuteTibiImperes: Ow! That was my feelings!: TuteTibiImperes: ikanreed: Headso: Christie agreed to allow production of ingestible forms of pot at state-approved dispensaries and to allow dispensaries to grow more than three strains of the drug.

They have the weirdest farking rules with all these new mmj laws, each state has their own idiotic rules and restrictions, that seem to come out of nowhere.

Not really, if you're approving it for treatment, you want to actually have predictable, medically documented effects.  Just going "whatever, have some pot" is not the point of medical marijuana. Just plain legalizing it would be better, but that's not what they're doing, and they shouldn't act like it.

I've thought about the incredibly varied medical marijuana laws in various states, from CA where pretty much anyone can just get a card for whatever reason to places where it's strictly controlled and real doctors have to be on board with a small list of medically acceptable uses.

On one hand I like CA's approach because it makes it only a split hair away from legal for recreational purposes, but at the same time I wonder if the easy access through the medical program in CA was one of the reasons the state's vote to legalize for recreational purposes failed.  I know a lot of the growers and dispensaries were worried about corporate interests taking over if it were made fully legal, but it seems that those who would want to use it recreationally could have easily outvoted them.  However, if those wanting to use it recreationally already have medical MJ cards, they might not have been as motivated to go out and vote it in as fully legal.

Damn Tute, you have to be the most concerned person on Fark. It didn't work that way in Colorado at all. Hell, we passed it with almost 55% of the vote.

I'm not familiar with the CO medical MJ rules before they legalized.  Was it was easy to obtain as it was in CA?  I just like looking at the issues from all the angles, oftentimes cause and effect aren' ...


Yeah, probably easier. Legalization failed in Cali because the Prop was a mess, support was divided, and strong corporate (drug testing) opposition. We learned from their mistakes and just passed a 'simple' legalization bill that deferred the tough issues (dui, retail, etc) to the legislature.
 
2013-08-16 06:20:38 PM

TuteTibiImperes: ikanreed: Headso: Christie agreed to allow production of ingestible forms of pot at state-approved dispensaries and to allow dispensaries to grow more than three strains of the drug.

They have the weirdest farking rules with all these new mmj laws, each state has their own idiotic rules and restrictions, that seem to come out of nowhere.

Not really, if you're approving it for treatment, you want to actually have predictable, medically documented effects.  Just going "whatever, have some pot" is not the point of medical marijuana. Just plain legalizing it would be better, but that's not what they're doing, and they shouldn't act like it.

I've thought about the incredibly varied medical marijuana laws in various states, from CA where pretty much anyone can just get a card for whatever reason to places where it's strictly controlled and real doctors have to be on board with a small list of medically acceptable uses.

On one hand I like CA's approach because it makes it only a split hair away from legal for recreational purposes, but at the same time I wonder if the easy access through the medical program in CA was one of the reasons the state's vote to legalize for recreational purposes failed.  I know a lot of the growers and dispensaries were worried about corporate interests taking over if it were made fully legal, but it seems that those who would want to use it recreationally could have easily outvoted them.  However, if those wanting to use it recreationally already have medical MJ cards, they might not have been as motivated to go out and vote it in as fully legal.


I'm all for introducing corporate interests into marijuana. If you want to make it legal they are your best avenue. Imagine the millions they could throw at voter campaigns and supporting political parties. If you want weed legal get big tobacco behind it and it will come sooner rather than later. You can continue to grow your boutique strains while they mass produce the regular stuff.
 
2013-08-16 06:25:07 PM

Tellingthem: TuteTibiImperes: ikanreed: Headso: Christie agreed to allow production of ingestible forms of pot at state-approved dispensaries and to allow dispensaries to grow more than three strains of the drug.

They have the weirdest farking rules with all these new mmj laws, each state has their own idiotic rules and restrictions, that seem to come out of nowhere.

Not really, if you're approving it for treatment, you want to actually have predictable, medically documented effects.  Just going "whatever, have some pot" is not the point of medical marijuana. Just plain legalizing it would be better, but that's not what they're doing, and they shouldn't act like it.

I've thought about the incredibly varied medical marijuana laws in various states, from CA where pretty much anyone can just get a card for whatever reason to places where it's strictly controlled and real doctors have to be on board with a small list of medically acceptable uses.

On one hand I like CA's approach because it makes it only a split hair away from legal for recreational purposes, but at the same time I wonder if the easy access through the medical program in CA was one of the reasons the state's vote to legalize for recreational purposes failed.  I know a lot of the growers and dispensaries were worried about corporate interests taking over if it were made fully legal, but it seems that those who would want to use it recreationally could have easily outvoted them.  However, if those wanting to use it recreationally already have medical MJ cards, they might not have been as motivated to go out and vote it in as fully legal.

I'm all for introducing corporate interests into marijuana. If you want to make it legal they are your best avenue. Imagine the millions they could throw at voter campaigns and supporting political parties. If you want weed legal get big tobacco behind it and it will come sooner rather than later. You can continue to grow your boutique strains while they mass produce the regular s ...


Yeah, I'm all for it as well, I just kept hearing about how the established growers in CA were against it because they didn't want to be regulated or forced out by larger concerns.

If Ow's analysis is correct though hopefully CA learns from its mistakes and the next time it's introduced the bill is more palatable.  Having legal MJ in CA to the south and WA to the north would probably finally get OR onboard, and the more states that OK it the faster the rest will fall in line.
 
2013-08-16 06:29:23 PM

Tellingthem: TuteTibiImperes: ikanreed: Headso: Christie agreed to allow production of ingestible forms of pot at state-approved dispensaries and to allow dispensaries to grow more than three strains of the drug.

They have the weirdest farking rules with all these new mmj laws, each state has their own idiotic rules and restrictions, that seem to come out of nowhere.

Not really, if you're approving it for treatment, you want to actually have predictable, medically documented effects.  Just going "whatever, have some pot" is not the point of medical marijuana. Just plain legalizing it would be better, but that's not what they're doing, and they shouldn't act like it.

I've thought about the incredibly varied medical marijuana laws in various states, from CA where pretty much anyone can just get a card for whatever reason to places where it's strictly controlled and real doctors have to be on board with a small list of medically acceptable uses.

On one hand I like CA's approach because it makes it only a split hair away from legal for recreational purposes, but at the same time I wonder if the easy access through the medical program in CA was one of the reasons the state's vote to legalize for recreational purposes failed.  I know a lot of the growers and dispensaries were worried about corporate interests taking over if it were made fully legal, but it seems that those who would want to use it recreationally could have easily outvoted them.  However, if those wanting to use it recreationally already have medical MJ cards, they might not have been as motivated to go out and vote it in as fully legal.

I'm all for introducing corporate interests into marijuana. If you want to make it legal they are your best avenue. Imagine the millions they could throw at voter campaigns and supporting political parties. If you want weed legal get big tobacco behind it and it will come sooner rather than later. You can continue to grow your boutique strains while they mass produce the regular s ...


I strongly disagree with this.

We are winning without making a devil's bargain with the tobacco corporations. Almost half the states now have MMJ laws. Two have voted legalization, many more will follow. We don't need to whore out to Philip Morris and RJ Reynolds to get legal Cannabis. Patience.
 
2013-08-16 06:31:26 PM

Lsherm: ShawnDoc: Edibles are harder to dose dose right

That's the stupidest thing I've ever heard.


Imagine that. Dosing through the enterogastric route might be unreliable and difficult in patients who  can't hold food down!

Come on, you're trolling, right?

/vaporization or suppository, or suckers.
 
2013-08-16 06:34:53 PM
"I care about kids but that check from Big Pharma did clear, so...."
 
2013-08-16 06:35:23 PM

hardinparamedic: Lsherm: ShawnDoc: Edibles are harder to dose dose right

That's the stupidest thing I've ever heard.

Imagine that. Dosing through the enterogastric route might be unreliable and difficult in patients who  can't hold food down!

Come on, you're trolling, right?

/vaporization or suppository, or suckers.


Tinctures.
 
2013-08-16 06:37:34 PM

Ow! That was my feelings!: Tellingthem: TuteTibiImperes: ikanreed: Headso: Christie agreed to allow production of ingestible forms of pot at state-approved dispensaries and to allow dispensaries to grow more than three strains of the drug.

They have the weirdest farking rules with all these new mmj laws, each state has their own idiotic rules and restrictions, that seem to come out of nowhere.

Not really, if you're approving it for treatment, you want to actually have predictable, medically documented effects.  Just going "whatever, have some pot" is not the point of medical marijuana. Just plain legalizing it would be better, but that's not what they're doing, and they shouldn't act like it.

I've thought about the incredibly varied medical marijuana laws in various states, from CA where pretty much anyone can just get a card for whatever reason to places where it's strictly controlled and real doctors have to be on board with a small list of medically acceptable uses.

On one hand I like CA's approach because it makes it only a split hair away from legal for recreational purposes, but at the same time I wonder if the easy access through the medical program in CA was one of the reasons the state's vote to legalize for recreational purposes failed.  I know a lot of the growers and dispensaries were worried about corporate interests taking over if it were made fully legal, but it seems that those who would want to use it recreationally could have easily outvoted them.  However, if those wanting to use it recreationally already have medical MJ cards, they might not have been as motivated to go out and vote it in as fully legal.

I'm all for introducing corporate interests into marijuana. If you want to make it legal they are your best avenue. Imagine the millions they could throw at voter campaigns and supporting political parties. If you want weed legal get big tobacco behind it and it will come sooner rather than later. You can continue to grow your boutique strains while they mass produce ...


They are going to get in the market anyway. Do you really think that once a mass produced product is feasible they won't? Hell i'm sure right now half the places in California are dreaming about becoming franchises. Make millions off of selling weed just like some of these craft brewers have off of beer. Even Wal-Mart started off as a single store. The whole medical thing is a joke and we all know it. it is basically a step towards full legalization. Money and corporate interests will come. Either learn to deal with the devil now or deal with him later.
 
2013-08-16 06:38:44 PM
And things started out so well with him...
 
2013-08-16 06:41:08 PM
Subby: presumably under the 'more for me' doctrine

Geez, if there's one guy we don't need getting the munchies...
 
2013-08-16 06:45:02 PM

Tellingthem: Ow! That was my feelings!: Tellingthem: TuteTibiImperes: ikanreed: Headso: Christie agreed to allow production of ingestible forms of pot at state-approved dispensaries and to allow dispensaries to grow more than three strains of the drug.

They have the weirdest farking rules with all these new mmj laws, each state has their own idiotic rules and restrictions, that seem to come out of nowhere.

Not really, if you're approving it for treatment, you want to actually have predictable, medically documented effects.  Just going "whatever, have some pot" is not the point of medical marijuana. Just plain legalizing it would be better, but that's not what they're doing, and they shouldn't act like it.

I've thought about the incredibly varied medical marijuana laws in various states, from CA where pretty much anyone can just get a card for whatever reason to places where it's strictly controlled and real doctors have to be on board with a small list of medically acceptable uses.

On one hand I like CA's approach because it makes it only a split hair away from legal for recreational purposes, but at the same time I wonder if the easy access through the medical program in CA was one of the reasons the state's vote to legalize for recreational purposes failed.  I know a lot of the growers and dispensaries were worried about corporate interests taking over if it were made fully legal, but it seems that those who would want to use it recreationally could have easily outvoted them.  However, if those wanting to use it recreationally already have medical MJ cards, they might not have been as motivated to go out and vote it in as fully legal.

I'm all for introducing corporate interests into marijuana. If you want to make it legal they are your best avenue. Imagine the millions they could throw at voter campaigns and supporting political parties. If you want weed legal get big tobacco behind it and it will come sooner rather than later. You can continue to grow your boutique strai ...


Oh, I agree it is inevitable that corporate interests will get involved.....when it's rescheduled. I just strongly oppose any "compromise" that gives them a sweetheart, "exclusive", type deal we all know will get pushed. "xyz company is the only legal supplier of Cannabis in the state" type deals. It will happen, of course, but I'm opposed to selling out to that kinda crap, just to get it legal, when we obviously don't have too.
 
2013-08-16 06:46:57 PM
which a rare strain of marijuana in Colorado has helped reduce symptoms for in several dozen other sick children.

From the perspective of an individual person, yeah, OK, I guess I can understand looking for whatever help you can get when you've got an issue, without looking too hard at the actual facts.

From the perspective of a regulatory agency, though... 'several dozen improvements' is not a medical study, it's an  urban legend, and the idea that one strain of the same marijuana everyone smokes, which has only been cultivated into varietals in the last 40 years tops, has such wildly varying medical effects on users from other varietals is "somewhat dubious" if you're being nice and "complete and utter bullshiat" if you passed freshman biology*.

So you could say that I sympathize with the general idea the uneducated activists have in proposing the bill, but I'm not that upset about it getting delayed a bit, hopefully pending an actual study and not a 14-point Shakespherean witch's comedy break for its medical evidence.

*That is to say, not impossible, but close enough that you need real hard evidence and a mechanism for anyone to take it seriously.  In fairness there have been scientific bullshiat ideas that have eventually turned out to work.
 
2013-08-16 06:51:27 PM

Ow! That was my feelings!: Tellingthem: Ow! That was my feelings!: Tellingthem: TuteTibiImperes: ikanreed: Headso: Christie agreed to allow production of ingestible forms of pot at state-approved dispensaries and to allow dispensaries to grow more than three strains of the drug.

They have the weirdest farking rules with all these new mmj laws, each state has their own idiotic rules and restrictions, that seem to come out of nowhere.

Not really, if you're approving it for treatment, you want to actually have predictable, medically documented effects.  Just going "whatever, have some pot" is not the point of medical marijuana. Just plain legalizing it would be better, but that's not what they're doing, and they shouldn't act like it.

I've thought about the incredibly varied medical marijuana laws in various states, from CA where pretty much anyone can just get a card for whatever reason to places where it's strictly controlled and real doctors have to be on board with a small list of medically acceptable uses.

On one hand I like CA's approach because it makes it only a split hair away from legal for recreational purposes, but at the same time I wonder if the easy access through the medical program in CA was one of the reasons the state's vote to legalize for recreational purposes failed.  I know a lot of the growers and dispensaries were worried about corporate interests taking over if it were made fully legal, but it seems that those who would want to use it recreationally could have easily outvoted them.  However, if those wanting to use it recreationally already have medical MJ cards, they might not have been as motivated to go out and vote it in as fully legal.

I'm all for introducing corporate interests into marijuana. If you want to make it legal they are your best avenue. Imagine the millions they could throw at voter campaigns and supporting political parties. If you want weed legal get big tobacco behind it and it will come sooner rather than later. You can continue to grow your b ...


Take the tin foil hat off and put the bong down, nobody has that kind of deal.

The only thing stopping Malbrough Greens from showing up in CO is the way the IRS handles taxes on it
 
2013-08-16 07:07:21 PM

ShadowKamui: Ow! That was my feelings!: Tellingthem: Ow! That was my feelings!: Tellingthem: TuteTibiImperes: ikanreed: Headso: Christie agreed to allow production of ingestible forms of pot at state-approved dispensaries and to allow dispensaries to grow more than three strains of the drug.

They have the weirdest farking rules with all these new mmj laws, each state has their own idiotic rules and restrictions, that seem to come out of nowhere.

Not really, if you're approving it for treatment, you want to actually have predictable, medically documented effects.  Just going "whatever, have some pot" is not the point of medical marijuana. Just plain legalizing it would be better, but that's not what they're doing, and they shouldn't act like it.

I've thought about the incredibly varied medical marijuana laws in various states, from CA where pretty much anyone can just get a card for whatever reason to places where it's strictly controlled and real doctors have to be on board with a small list of medically acceptable uses.

On one hand I like CA's approach because it makes it only a split hair away from legal for recreational purposes, but at the same time I wonder if the easy access through the medical program in CA was one of the reasons the state's vote to legalize for recreational purposes failed.  I know a lot of the growers and dispensaries were worried about corporate interests taking over if it were made fully legal, but it seems that those who would want to use it recreationally could have easily outvoted them.  However, if those wanting to use it recreationally already have medical MJ cards, they might not have been as motivated to go out and vote it in as fully legal.

I'm all for introducing corporate interests into marijuana. If you want to make it legal they are your best avenue. Imagine the millions they could throw at voter campaigns and supporting political parties. If you want weed legal get big tobacco behind it and it will come sooner rather than later. You ...


They are being stopped for one reason, Cannabis is Schedule 1. It's hardly 'tinfoil' to worry that when Congress reschedules it, they will 'level' the playing field so that Philip Morris has a "fair chance" against current, independent growers.  It is the worst fear of many of the growers I know, that only 'authorized' (ie government approved growers) will be legal.
 
2013-08-16 07:11:35 PM

ShadowKamui: Take the tin foil hat off and put the bong down, nobody has that kind of deal.

The only thing stopping Malbrough Greens from showing up in CO is the way the IRS handles taxes on it


As an ex-smoker, I would totally smoke the weak, shiatty version of an MJ cigarette equivalent.  Sure, it's particulates down your lungs so it's still bad for you, but it doesn't have the tar and there's no equivalent of aldehyde boosting so it's comparatively benign and doesn't need a filter, really.

And when you've just got a pack of something to smoke at the bar, you don't  want it to be some sort of Jesus' own super-spectacular double strength mega strain 5000 now with extra THC, you want something that's barely a drug at all to go with your beer and avoid annoying everyone else on the patio.  I'm like 90% that that's why people smoke that annoying clove shiat, it bothers the guy at the next table less and doesn't give cravings if he's a quitter.

Anyhow, a weak corporate version of a joint where you're mostly just paying for the paper bit is actually great for most people... we're not mostly actual potheads, man.
 
2013-08-16 07:13:55 PM

Jim_Callahan: which a rare strain of marijuana in Colorado has helped reduce symptoms for in several dozen other sick children.

From the perspective of an individual person, yeah, OK, I guess I can understand looking for whatever help you can get when you've got an issue, without looking too hard at the actual facts.

From the perspective of a regulatory agency, though... 'several dozen improvements' is not a medical study, it's an  urban legend, and the idea that one strain of the same marijuana everyone smokes, which has only been cultivated into varietals in the last 40 years tops, has such wildly varying medical effects on users from other varietals is "somewhat dubious" if you're being nice and "complete and utter bullshiat" if you passed freshman biology*.

So you could say that I sympathize with the general idea the uneducated activists have in proposing the bill, but I'm not that upset about it getting delayed a bit, hopefully pending an actual study and not a 14-point Shakespherean witch's comedy break for its medical evidence.

*That is to say, not impossible, but close enough that you need real hard evidence and a mechanism for anyone to take it seriously.  In fairness there have been scientific bullshiat ideas that have eventually turned out to work.


It's not so much a 'magic strain' that works miracles as it is a custom designed strain that's high in CBD (which has been scientifically researched) while being low in THC, so that the kids using it aren't going to be super-stoned.  The research that's been done on the effect of marijuana on developing brains has focused on THC, not CBD, so while, CBD may have some potential negative effects, at least reducing the THC content should alleviate some of the things we know could go wrong.
 
2013-08-16 07:33:41 PM

Jim_Callahan: which a rare strain of marijuana in Colorado has helped reduce symptoms for in several dozen other sick children.

From the perspective of an individual person, yeah, OK, I guess I can understand looking for whatever help you can get when you've got an issue, without looking too hard at the actual facts.

From the perspective of a regulatory agency, though... 'several dozen improvements' is not a medical study, it's an  urban legend, and the idea that one strain of the same marijuana everyone smokes, which has only been cultivated into varietals in the last 40 years tops, has such wildly varying medical effects on users from other varietals is "somewhat dubious" if you're being nice and "complete and utter bullshiat" if you passed freshman biology*.

So you could say that I sympathize with the general idea the uneducated activists have in proposing the bill, but I'm not that upset about it getting delayed a bit, hopefully pending an actual study and not a 14-point Shakespherean witch's comedy break for its medical evidence.

*That is to say, not impossible, but close enough that you need real hard evidence and a mechanism for anyone to take it seriously.  In fairness there have been scientific bullshiat ideas that have eventually turned out to work.


facts.... like these?
realitycheck.typepad.com
img0.etsystatic.com
25.media.tumblr.com
www.erowid.org
...And the poster boy for the movement of illegalizing it:
freedweed.files.wordpress.com

We have a name for those kinds of "facts"... it's called Propaganda... the trusted ally of Dictators, Fascists, and other Jackbooted thugs all through history.
 
2013-08-16 07:55:54 PM

Ow! That was my feelings!: We are winning without making a devil's bargain with the tobacco corporations. Almost half the states now have MMJ laws. Two have voted legalization, many more will follow. We don't need to whore out to Philip Morris and RJ Reynolds to get legal Cannabis. Patience.


Ow! speaks Truth.  And Wisdom.  Listen to Ow!
 
2013-08-16 08:09:10 PM
This is the same reason he used to veto the school lunch program.
 
2013-08-16 08:13:13 PM

RedPhoenix122: This is the same reason he used to veto the school lunch program.


He wanted the lunches all to himself?
 
2013-08-16 08:19:31 PM

Zul the Magnificent: Ow! That was my feelings!: We are winning without making a devil's bargain with the tobacco corporations. Almost half the states now have MMJ laws. Two have voted legalization, many more will follow. We don't need to whore out to Philip Morris and RJ Reynolds to get legal Cannabis. Patience.

Ow! speaks Truth.  And Wisdom.  Listen to Ow!


Dear god I hope he's right.  My nuts and microwave stand ready.
 
2013-08-16 08:35:39 PM

Carth: Now that marijuana can be considered medically necessary can apartments, hotels etc keep you from smoking in your room? If you have a disability that requires you to smoke medication can they discriminate against you?


Yes, if they receive federal funding. Remember, all these bills, laws, etc., only affect STATE laws. Pot is still a useless, evil drug according to the Feds, and anyone who gets federal money has to throw you out if they want to keep their federal money flowing.
 
2013-08-16 08:39:43 PM

hardinparamedic: Lsherm: ShawnDoc: Edibles are harder to dose dose right

That's the stupidest thing I've ever heard.

Imagine that. Dosing through the enterogastric route might be unreliable and difficult in patients who  can't hold food down!

Come on, you're trolling, right?

/vaporization or suppository, or suckers.


No, it's the stupidest thing I've ever heard.  If you can't hold food down to such a degree that you can't swallow a pill, then a shot or a drip will suffice.  But whatever the shortcomings of a pill, the delivered dose is vastly easier to measure in pill form than by inhaling smoke or vapor.
 
2013-08-16 09:22:12 PM

aintnuttintofarkwith: ikanreed: Headso: Christie agreed to allow production of ingestible forms of pot at state-approved dispensaries and to allow dispensaries to grow more than three strains of the drug.

They have the weirdest farking rules with all these new mmj laws, each state has their own idiotic rules and restrictions, that seem to come out of nowhere.

Not really, if you're approving it for treatment, you want to actually have predictable, medically documented effects.  Just going "whatever, have some pot" is not the point of medical marijuana. Just plain legalizing it would be better, but that's not what they're doing, and they shouldn't act like it.

No, it makes sense, even from the perspective you were trying to take. If you standardize production you can ingest it predictably, like, I dunno... a pill!


Yeah, Marinol has been on the market for years (THC - Schedule 3).  Problem is variations in percentages of active `ingredients' remains more amenable to achieving through breeding than through lab synthesis (thanks to marijuana being dry gulched by Fed. Regs - apply for a research grant - might as well dig a grave).  However, precise testing can reveal the `best' of the variants (different balances for different conditions).

The Feds have had their Compassionate Use program running for decades (no new patients need apply!).  I'd suggest looking at the mess that the Federal Pot Farm (U. Miss.) made of Irvin Rosenfeld (9 Oz/ per month - 360 rolled cigs).  He's still smoking Uncle Sam's ~3.5% Delta 9:   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B1NggzEkltM

Actually, I'd think that `boutique' breeding will explode (for both med/recreational) if the blinders come off (all this hand wringing by those who ply politics and ignore the farking science are having their last hurrah, I'd guess) .  This writer would sooner turn under Indicas/crosses than smoke them.  Equatorial Sativas or nothing (moderation in all things, i.e., learn to farking titrate the farking dose).
 
2013-08-16 09:48:25 PM
He also vetoed a ban on .50 caliber rifles. Maybe the kids could smoke some of those instead.
 
2013-08-16 10:04:21 PM
Willie's favorite vaporizer

Why burn the product, smell up the hotel room and risk fire when you can vaporize with very little smell and no smoke/burning? Turns itself off if you forget, idiot proof and wall/battery operated.

So I hear...
 
2013-08-16 10:30:00 PM
It's the CBD they're after for these sick kids. Christie just opened an important door.

U.S Federal and State regulations are madness, but it's better (sometimes) to err on the regulatory side.
 
2013-08-16 10:32:31 PM

fusillade762: He also vetoed a ban on .50 caliber rifles. Maybe the kids could smoke some of those instead.


just an fyi, he hasn't signed or vetoed that particular bill, even though he pushed for it. That one and 4 more gun-related bills are gathering dust on his desk while he's off on vacation. He signed 10 of the 15 gun restriction bills.
 
2013-08-16 10:41:54 PM

Lsherm: No, it's the stupidest thing I've ever heard.  If you can't hold food down to such a degree that you can't swallow a pill, then a shot or a drip will suffice.  But whatever the shortcomings of a pill, the delivered dose is vastly easier to measure in pill form than by inhaling smoke or vapor.


upload.wikimedia.org

Gonna have to disagree with you on this one.

Also, the whole reason to use Marijuana is to avoid the side effects that are caused by the IV or IM forms of medication, or even the suppository forms. Phenergan, Reglan, and even Zofran can have nasty side effects, and are a lot more expensive than pot.

Vaporizing or Nebulizing CBD in a carrier, such as glycol - which is already done in e-cigs, or saline is far more rapid onset than taking a pill - which is dependant on many factors such as gastric emptying and gut perfusion (which might not be all that great in cancers), and it's a predictable dose-dependant effect as well.
 
2013-08-16 10:53:35 PM

hardinparamedic: Vaporizing or Nebulizing THC


Problem is that drugs, like Albuterol, are manufactured to FDA standards. An illegal substance, even suggested by a doctor, is not regulated to the same standards of concentration or purity. This grey zone would be a libertarian paradise, where, if they mark the wrong concentration, your corpse gets to sue.
Of course, legalizing and regulating would be the best scenario. You could split it off to recreational and medicinal.
Problem then would be that 'supplements' are not FDA regulated either.
IDK what the heck I'm talking about.
I foresee more than a few problems.

/gonna go find a snack and hit the bed
//I swear I don't drink or do drugs
 
2013-08-16 10:56:45 PM

ShawnDoc: WhoIsWillo: ikanreed: GOP: killing kids for outdated morality.

Christie vetoed the bill to make a couple minor changes to the law, and then he will sign it. One of the requirements was to modify it so kids can only get the edible form, which isn't the most unreasonable of objections.

Edibles are harder to dose dose right (easier to take too much) and can take hours to take affect. On top of that, one of the most common uses for MJ is to treat nausea and vomiting, which is hard to do when you have to eat the medicine and wait for it to be digested.


At home, maybe. In production, no.
 
2013-08-16 11:01:25 PM

hardinparamedic: Lsherm: No, it's the stupidest thing I've ever heard.  If you can't hold food down to such a degree that you can't swallow a pill, then a shot or a drip will suffice.  But whatever the shortcomings of a pill, the delivered dose is vastly easier to measure in pill form than by inhaling smoke or vapor.

[upload.wikimedia.org image 850x1133]

Gonna have to disagree with you on this one.

Also, the whole reason to use Marijuana is to avoid the side effects that are caused by the IV or IM forms of medication, or even the suppository forms. Phenergan, Reglan, and even Zofran can have nasty side effects, and are a lot more expensive than pot.

Vaporizing or Nebulizing CBD in a carrier, such as glycol - which is already done in e-cigs, or saline is far more rapid onset than taking a pill - which is dependant on many factors such as gastric emptying and gut perfusion (which might not be all that great in cancers), and it's a predictable dose-dependant effect as well.


Horseshiat.  It's faster acting, that's it.  That's the advantage.  There is no advantage for dosage accuracy - absorption via the lungs varies by person and delivery method and usage.  Inhalation is useful for treating respiratory disorders, like your asthma treatment in your picture.  People aren't using pot to treat asthma, and they'd be fools to do so.

It's an argument made by potheads because they think they'll eventually be able to get on the "medicine" list.
 
2013-08-16 11:08:15 PM
So you oppose same-sex marriage because there's a passage in the Bible against homosexual intercourse...
So why do you also oppose the use of marijuana?
 
2013-08-16 11:12:58 PM

machodonkeywrestler: At home, maybe. In production, no.


I don't know what you mean by production?  I'm looking at it from a home user using MMJ.  If you smoke it, you take a hit, wait 5 min.  If you need more, you take another hit, wait 5 min and repeat.

With edibles (brownies, cookies, etc), the potency doesn't isn't necessarily consistent from batch to batch, or even from one side of the edible to the other if they didn't get it mixed right.  The other problem is it can take hours for the effects to hit.  So it is difficult to judge when you've had too much, or not enough.  That's why you see so many stories of groups of people going to the hospital from "marijuana overdoses" from edibles.  Just about everyone I know who eats edibles has a horror story or two from the first time they did it due to underestimating the potency.

Someone else mentioned tinctures, and yes, those are a good in-between.  Not as fast to feel the effects as with smoking, but much faster than eating it (provided you hold it under your tongue without swallowing, which might be hard for kids to do) and more consistent in dosage.
 
2013-08-16 11:31:51 PM

Lsherm: hardinparamedic: Lsherm: No, it's the stupidest thing I've ever heard.  If you can't hold food down to such a degree that you can't swallow a pill, then a shot or a drip will suffice.  But whatever the shortcomings of a pill, the delivered dose is vastly easier to measure in pill form than by inhaling smoke or vapor.

[upload.wikimedia.org image 850x1133]

Gonna have to disagree with you on this one.

Also, the whole reason to use Marijuana is to avoid the side effects that are caused by the IV or IM forms of medication, or even the suppository forms. Phenergan, Reglan, and even Zofran can have nasty side effects, and are a lot more expensive than pot.

Vaporizing or Nebulizing CBD in a carrier, such as glycol - which is already done in e-cigs, or saline is far more rapid onset than taking a pill - which is dependant on many factors such as gastric emptying and gut perfusion (which might not be all that great in cancers), and it's a predictable dose-dependant effect as well.

Horseshiat.  It's faster acting, that's it.  That's the advantage.  There is no advantage for dosage accuracy - absorption via the lungs varies by person and delivery method and usage.  Inhalation is useful for treating respiratory disorders, like your asthma treatment in your picture.  People aren't using pot to treat asthma, and they'd be fools to do so.

It's an argument made by potheads because they think they'll eventually be able to get on the "medicine" list.


Wow, I'm surprised you admitted it's faster acting.  Here's a thought:  The fact that it's faster acting can allow the user to tailor his or her dose to the specific current symptoms they might be experiencing.

This isn't an antibiotic*.  The whole point of using cannabis is the effects you can easily notice.

*cannabis resin is antibacterial tho.
 
2013-08-16 11:41:56 PM

Lsherm: Horseshiat.  It's faster acting, that's it.  That's the advantage.  There is no advantage for dosage accuracy - absorption via the lungs varies by person and delivery method and usage.   Inhalation is useful for treating respiratory disorders, like your asthma treatment in your picture.  People aren't using pot to treat asthma, and they'd be fools to do so.


That's all it's useful for huh?

Excuse me. I gotta go tell those jerks over at palliative care to stop nebulizing morphine.
 
2013-08-16 11:44:56 PM

ShawnDoc: Edibles are harder to dose dose right (easier to take too much) and can take hours to take affect. On top of that, one of the most common uses for MJ is to treat nausea and vomiting, which is hard to do when you have to eat the medicine and wait for it to be digested.


Are you sure you want to get them thinking about the feasibility of a Tetrahydrocannabinolsuppository?
 
2013-08-16 11:49:11 PM

ShawnDoc: machodonkeywrestler: At home, maybe. In production, no.

I don't know what you mean by production?  I'm looking at it from a home user using MMJ.  If you smoke it, you take a hit, wait 5 min.  If you need more, you take another hit, wait 5 min and repeat.

With edibles (brownies, cookies, etc), the potency doesn't isn't necessarily consistent from batch to batch, or even from one side of the edible to the other if they didn't get it mixed right.  The other problem is it can take hours for the effects to hit.  So it is difficult to judge when you've had too much, or not enough.  That's why you see so many stories of groups of people going to the hospital from "marijuana overdoses" from edibles.  Just about everyone I know who eats edibles has a horror story or two from the first time they did it due to underestimating the potency.

Someone else mentioned tinctures, and yes, those are a good in-between.  Not as fast to feel the effects as with smoking, but much faster than eating it (provided you hold it under your tongue without swallowing, which might be hard for kids to do) and more consistent in dosage.


I mean that for a mid scale operation the most feasible way to manufacture is to extract using butter, test the butter for potency, and deliver a known quantity per unit butter (or other oils).
 
2013-08-16 11:51:09 PM

Witty_Retort: fusillade762: He also vetoed a ban on .50 caliber rifles. Maybe the kids could smoke some of those instead.

just an fyi, he hasn't signed or vetoed that particular bill, even though he pushed for it. That one and 4 more gun-related bills are gathering dust on his desk while he's off on vacation. He signed 10 of the 15 gun restriction bills.


Bill to ban 50-caliber weapons vetoed

TRENTON - Gov. Chris Christie issued an absolute veto today of the bill that would have barred civilians' use of .50-caliber weapons.
 
2013-08-16 11:51:50 PM

machodonkeywrestler: I mean that for a mid scale operation the most feasible way to manufacture is to extract using butter, test the butter for potency, and deliver a known quantity per unit butter (or other oils).


images.wikia.com

Marijuana butter? This could be a vicious cycle.
 
2013-08-17 12:03:26 AM

hardinparamedic: Lsherm: Horseshiat.  It's faster acting, that's it.  That's the advantage.  There is no advantage for dosage accuracy - absorption via the lungs varies by person and delivery method and usage.   Inhalation is useful for treating respiratory disorders, like your asthma treatment in your picture.  People aren't using pot to treat asthma, and they'd be fools to do so.

That's all it's useful for huh?

Excuse me. I gotta go tell those jerks over at palliative care to stop nebulizing morphine.


You're being disingenuous, a dick, or an idiot.  You posted a photo of inhalation medicine to treat inflammation of the respiratory tract and your second example is vaporized morphine.  Nebulized morphine is used as a faster delivery mechanism, it is not used "for more accurate doses."  That was the original idiot argument - that pills were harder to dose.
 
2013-08-17 12:03:59 AM

Vlad_the_Inaner: Are you sure you want to get them thinking about the feasibility of a Tetrahydrocannabinolsuppository?


Why not? Alcohol enemas are fantastic.
 
2013-08-17 12:15:44 AM

ShawnDoc: Vlad_the_Inaner: Are you sure you want to get them thinking about the feasibility of a Tetrahydrocannabinolsuppository?

Why not? Alcohol enemas are fantastic.


Kind of what John McAfee said about bath salts.

Butt^H still, just to instill some caution here: Experts: Alcohol enemas 'extremely dangerous'
 
2013-08-17 12:46:18 AM

Lsherm: You're being disingenuous, a dick, or an idiot.  You posted a photo of inhalation medicine to treat inflammation of the respiratory tract and your second example is vaporized morphine.  Nebulized morphine is used as a faster delivery mechanism, it is not used "for more accurate doses."  That was the original idiot argument - that pills were harder to dose.


You're right. I am being a dick to you, because you were kind of a dick to another person for no reason in this thread for no reason. I've posted two examples of medications used for rapid onset through the respiratory tract and inhalation which have tight controls over dose delivered, and rate of absorption. Secondly, there is no "pill" version of marijuana available. The only thing that is on the market right now is marinol, and it's expensive and arguably ineffective for many people. It's also a synthetic cannabinoid with some pretty nasty side effects.

He had a point in his post: with a nebulized/vaporized product, you have direct control over what you are getting. With home preparation or non-pharmaceutical grade commercial preparation of an edible, you're not getting a guaranteed or accurate dosing. Other posters mentioned tinctures or lipid preparations which would still give far more control over THC or CBD quantities than brownies.

Unless you're talking a professional pharmaceutical preparation with lab quality assurance and oversight, you're not going to have the same dosing and absorption profiles as you will with inhalation.

And again. There are no Cannabidiol pills. There is Dronabinol, which is a synthetic.
 
2013-08-17 12:55:47 AM

Vlad_the_Inaner: Kind of what John McAfee said about bath salts.


If you're stupid enough to get high on Mephedrone or any of the other substituted cathinones, you deserve the beat down you get from the cop who finds you eating someone's face off.
 
2013-08-17 12:56:12 AM

hardinparamedic: Lsherm: You're being disingenuous, a dick, or an idiot.  You posted a photo of inhalation medicine to treat inflammation of the respiratory tract and your second example is vaporized morphine.  Nebulized morphine is used as a faster delivery mechanism, it is not used "for more accurate doses."  That was the original idiot argument - that pills were harder to dose.

You're right. I am being a dick to you, because you were kind of a dick to another person for no reason in this thread for no reason. I've posted two examples of medications used for rapid onset through the respiratory tract and inhalation which have tight controls over dose delivered, and rate of absorption. Secondly, there is no "pill" version of marijuana available. The only thing that is on the market right now is marinol, and it's expensive and arguably ineffective for many people. It's also a synthetic cannabinoid with some pretty nasty side effects.

He had a point in his post: with a nebulized/vaporized product, you have direct control over what you are getting. With home preparation or non-pharmaceutical grade commercial preparation of an edible, you're not getting a guaranteed or accurate dosing. Other posters mentioned tinctures or lipid preparations which would still give far more control over THC or CBD quantities than brownies.

Unless you're talking a professional pharmaceutical preparation with lab quality assurance and oversight, you're not going to have the same dosing and absorption profiles as you will with inhalation.

And again. There are no Cannabidiol pills. There is Dronabinol, which is a synthetic.


How the fark can you argue that smoking a joint is a controlled dosage?  Seriously, I'm curious.  On what level could you possibly argue that?
 
2013-08-17 12:58:09 AM

Lsherm: How the fark can you argue that smoking a joint is a controlled dosage?  Seriously, I'm curious.  On what level could you possibly argue that?


I don't think you understand what I'm saying, or you have a very odd way of interpreting it. I never mentioned "smoking a joint". I mentioned vaporization or nebulization through a carrier medium of CBD and THC.
 
2013-08-17 01:46:25 AM
Hurr Chris Christie would make a good President DURR
 
2013-08-17 01:54:51 AM

Lsherm: hardinparamedic: Lsherm: You're being disingenuous, a dick, or an idiot.  You posted a photo of inhalation medicine to treat inflammation of the respiratory tract and your second example is vaporized morphine.  Nebulized morphine is used as a faster delivery mechanism, it is not used "for more accurate doses."  That was the original idiot argument - that pills were harder to dose.

You're right. I am being a dick to you, because you were kind of a dick to another person for no reason in this thread for no reason. I've posted two examples of medications used for rapid onset through the respiratory tract and inhalation which have tight controls over dose delivered, and rate of absorption. Secondly, there is no "pill" version of marijuana available. The only thing that is on the market right now is marinol, and it's expensive and arguably ineffective for many people. It's also a synthetic cannabinoid with some pretty nasty side effects.

He had a point in his post: with a nebulized/vaporized product, you have direct control over what you are getting. With home preparation or non-pharmaceutical grade commercial preparation of an edible, you're not getting a guaranteed or accurate dosing. Other posters mentioned tinctures or lipid preparations which would still give far more control over THC or CBD quantities than brownies.

Unless you're talking a professional pharmaceutical preparation with lab quality assurance and oversight, you're not going to have the same dosing and absorption profiles as you will with inhalation.

And again. There are no Cannabidiol pills. There is Dronabinol, which is a synthetic.

How the fark can you argue that smoking a joint is a controlled dosage?  Seriously, I'm curious.  On what level could you possibly argue that?


Smoking or inhalation lets the user self titrate the dose. When the right effect is noticed, the user quits taking it. This isn't possible if you have to wait thirty minutes on a pill to get in the system.
 
2013-08-17 02:02:44 AM

hardinparamedic: Marijuana butter? This could be a vicious cycle.


I happened to drive past the venue here in Seattle where Hempfest is happening this weekend. I was stopped at a light, so I got to listen to part of a conversation between a festival/ organizer and a couple of cops. She was cluing them into a festering dispute between a couple of vendors, one of whom sold brownies and the other sold infused butter. The cops reminded her that all such vendors were on dangerous ground because the law allows possession of up to one ounce of marijuana or of any substance containing marijuana - and a brownie or a stick of butter would surely weigh more than an ounce. So be careful out there.
 
2013-08-17 03:55:23 AM

lewismarktwo: Lsherm: hardinparamedic: Lsherm: No, it's the stupidest thing I've ever heard.  If you can't hold food down to such a degree that you can't swallow a pill, then a shot or a drip will suffice.  But whatever the shortcomings of a pill, the delivered dose is vastly easier to measure in pill form than by inhaling smoke or vapor.

[upload.wikimedia.org image 850x1133]

Gonna have to disagree with you on this one.

Also, the whole reason to use Marijuana is to avoid the side effects that are caused by the IV or IM forms of medication, or even the suppository forms. Phenergan, Reglan, and even Zofran can have nasty side effects, and are a lot more expensive than pot.

Vaporizing or Nebulizing CBD in a carrier, such as glycol - which is already done in e-cigs, or saline is far more rapid onset than taking a pill - which is dependant on many factors such as gastric emptying and gut perfusion (which might not be all that great in cancers), and it's a predictable dose-dependant effect as well.

Horseshiat.  It's faster acting, that's it.  That's the advantage.  There is no advantage for dosage accuracy - absorption via the lungs varies by person and delivery method and usage.  Inhalation is useful for treating respiratory disorders, like your asthma treatment in your picture.  People aren't using pot to treat asthma, and they'd be fools to do so.

It's an argument made by potheads because they think they'll eventually be able to get on the "medicine" list.

Wow, I'm surprised you admitted it's faster acting.  Here's a thought:  The fact that it's faster acting can allow the user to tailor his or her dose to the specific current symptoms they might be experiencing.

This isn't an antibiotic*.  The whole point of using cannabis is the effects you can easily notice.

*cannabis resin is antibacterial tho.


Not really. There's a reason I turned my buddy on to Star San during curing. His harvests went from 15% infection loss to practically negligible.

Cannabis is a panacea all in its own without people trying to heap bullshiat on top of the list. Quit it.
 
2013-08-17 04:09:34 AM

Lsherm: People aren't using pot to treat asthma, and they'd be fools to do so.


http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1099949
 
2013-08-17 07:32:06 AM

Internet Meme Rogers: Lsherm: People aren't using pot to treat asthma, and they'd be fools to do so.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1099949


it treats asthma too? damn... I guess it is a miracle plant.
 
2013-08-17 08:01:47 AM

whidbey: Hurr Chris Christie would make a good President DURR


Well he's better than almost any GOP douche that wants to run in 2016, but the bar is set pretty low.
 
2013-08-17 09:04:38 AM

FTA: "I believe that parents, and not government regulators, are best suited to decide how to care for their children," Christie in his conditional veto of the bill.

Herbert and Catherine Schaible agrees:  http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/04/23/herbert-catherine-schaible_n _ 3138001.html

i78.photobucket.com

"F*ck you, fatman!"
 
2013-08-17 09:41:37 AM
Every day, I can see commercials on television advertising corporate-backed pharmaceuticals that list a slew of side effects that make me cringe... From heart palpitations, liver and/or kidney damage, to "may cause death"!  We hear nary a peep of complaint or question from the American public, much less from our elected representatives.

Let the issue wander to smoking a plant that's never killed anyone, and the shiat hits the fan.  I wonder why that is.

/not really wondering
 
2013-08-17 09:50:05 AM
Let's not forget this arsehat who convinced the nation that cannabis should be outlawed in the first place:

William Randolph Hearst
i.imgur.com
 
2013-08-17 09:53:22 AM

stamped human bacon: Every day, I can see commercials on television advertising corporate-backed pharmaceuticals that list a slew of side effects that make me cringe...

 Let the issue wander to smoking a plant that's never killed anyone, and the shiat hits the fan. I wonder why that is.

Because the people selling you the wonder plant are not legally required to record, document and share the side effects the way regulated pharmaceutical manufacturers are?

I don't know if you realize this, but you're making exactly the same argument that proponents of "dietary supplements", "natural" cures, homeopathy and other kinds of quackery make. I'm not sure that's territory you really want to share.

Personally, I don't pretend to know what the side effects of cannibis are; but pretending that it's a wonder drug of nature that's all upside and no downside is no way to have a sensible conversation.

Perversely I'm sort of glad it's not legal in my state because given my track record with the legal recreational drugs alcohol and caffeine, I'm pretty sure that at a minimum it would be harmful to my budget.
 
2013-08-17 10:50:22 AM

netgamer7k: William Randolph Hearst


He looks particularly soulless in that photo.
 
2013-08-17 01:38:42 PM

ShadowKamui: Ow! That was my feelings!: Tellingthem: Ow! That was my feelings!: Tellingthem: TuteTibiImperes: ikanreed: Headso: Christie agreed to allow production of ingestible forms of pot at state-approved dispensaries and to allow dispensaries to grow more than three strains of the drug.

They have the weirdest farking rules with all these new mmj laws, each state has their own idiotic rules and restrictions, that seem to come out of nowhere.

Not really, if you're approving it for treatment, you want to actually have predictable, medically documented effects.  Just going "whatever, have some pot" is not the point of medical marijuana. Just plain legalizing it would be better, but that's not what they're doing, and they shouldn't act like it.

I've thought about the incredibly varied medical marijuana laws in various states, from CA where pretty much anyone can just get a card for whatever reason to places where it's strictly controlled and real doctors have to be on board with a small list of medically acceptable uses.

On one hand I like CA's approach because it makes it only a split hair away from legal for recreational purposes, but at the same time I wonder if the easy access through the medical program in CA was one of the reasons the state's vote to legalize for recreational purposes failed.  I know a lot of the growers and dispensaries were worried about corporate interests taking over if it were made fully legal, but it seems that those who would want to use it recreationally could have easily outvoted them.  However, if those wanting to use it recreationally already have medical MJ cards, they might not have been as motivated to go out and vote it in as fully legal.

I'm all for introducing corporate interests into marijuana. If you want to make it legal they are your best avenue. Imagine the millions they could throw at voter campaigns and supporting political parties. If you want weed legal get big tobacco behind it and it will come sooner rather than later. You can continue to grow your b ...

Take the tin foil hat off and put the bong down, nobody has that kind of deal.

The only thing stopping Malbrough Greens from showing up in CO is the way the IRS handles taxes on it


What's malbrough?
 
2013-08-17 02:00:59 PM

Mugato: "I care about kids but that check from Big Pharma did clear, so...."


THIS
 
2013-08-17 02:12:51 PM

iq_in_binary: lewismarktwo: Lsherm: hardinparamedic: Lsherm: No, it's the stupidest thing I've ever heard.  If you can't hold food down to such a degree that you can't swallow a pill, then a shot or a drip will suffice.  But whatever the shortcomings of a pill, the delivered dose is vastly easier to measure in pill form than by inhaling smoke or vapor.

[upload.wikimedia.org image 850x1133]

Gonna have to disagree with you on this one.

Also, the whole reason to use Marijuana is to avoid the side effects that are caused by the IV or IM forms of medication, or even the suppository forms. Phenergan, Reglan, and even Zofran can have nasty side effects, and are a lot more expensive than pot.

Vaporizing or Nebulizing CBD in a carrier, such as glycol - which is already done in e-cigs, or saline is far more rapid onset than taking a pill - which is dependant on many factors such as gastric emptying and gut perfusion (which might not be all that great in cancers), and it's a predictable dose-dependant effect as well.

Horseshiat.  It's faster acting, that's it.  That's the advantage.  There is no advantage for dosage accuracy - absorption via the lungs varies by person and delivery method and usage.  Inhalation is useful for treating respiratory disorders, like your asthma treatment in your picture.  People aren't using pot to treat asthma, and they'd be fools to do so.

It's an argument made by potheads because they think they'll eventually be able to get on the "medicine" list.

Wow, I'm surprised you admitted it's faster acting.  Here's a thought:  The fact that it's faster acting can allow the user to tailor his or her dose to the specific current symptoms they might be experiencing.

This isn't an antibiotic*.  The whole point of using cannabis is the effects you can easily notice.

*cannabis resin is antibacterial tho.


Not really. There's a reason I turned my buddy on to Star San during curing. His harvests went from 15% infection loss to practically negligible.

Cannabis is a panacea all in its own without people trying to heap bullshiat on top of the list. Quit it.


Uhh... Are you sure you know what your buds were 'infected' with?

http://arstechnica.com/science/2008/08/killing-bacteria-with-cannabi s/
http://www.ukcia.org/research/medline/5g.htm

Anyway, antibacterial doesn't mean it can kill all bacteria always.  Maybe you're friend is a dirty sonofabiatch.
 
2013-08-17 02:15:29 PM

phenn: Mugato: "I care about kids but that check from Big Pharma did clear, so...."

THIS


Yeah. Because big pharma is REALLY threatened by marijuana.

thecuriousseaturtle.files.wordpress.com

/People actually believe this. Meanwhile, Pharma makes billions a year on boner pills and blood pressure medication.
 
2013-08-17 02:24:51 PM

hardinparamedic: phenn: Mugato: "I care about kids but that check from Big Pharma did clear, so...."

THIS

Yeah. Because big pharma is REALLY threatened by marijuana.

[thecuriousseaturtle.files.wordpress.com image 602x480]

/People actually believe this. Meanwhile, Pharma makes billions a year on boner pills and blood pressure medication.


Of course they are threatened by it. It's the frigging wonder drug, forchrisake. If it were legal, use of antidepressants would probably dry up like a slug on the sidewalk.
 
2013-08-17 06:59:10 PM

czetie: Personally, I don't pretend to know what the side effects of cannibis are


Then look it up, you'll realize how stupid you sound.
 
2013-08-17 09:00:25 PM

hardinparamedic: Yeah. Because big pharma is REALLY threatened by marijuana.



Abilify (ariprazole)
Adapin (doxepin)
Anafranil (clomipramine)
Aplenzin (bupropion)
Asendin (amoxapine)
Aventyl HCI (nortriptyline)

Celexa (citalopram)
Cymbalta (duloxetine)
Desyrel (trazodone)
Effexor XR (venlafaxine)
Emsam (selegiline)
Etrafon (perphenazine and amitriptyline)
Elavil (amitriptyline)
Endep (amitriptyline)
Lexapro (escitalopram)
Limbitrol (amitriptyline and chlordiazepoxide)
Marplan (isocarboxazid)
Nardil (phenelzine)
Norpramin (desipramine)
Oleptro (trazodone)
Pamelor (nortriptyline)
Parnate (tranylcypromine)
Paxil (paroxetine)
Pexeva (paroxetine)
Prozac (fluoxetine)
Pristiq (desvenlafaxine)
Remeron (mirtazapine)
Sarafem (fluoxetine)
Seroquel XR (quetiapine) -- used in combination with antidepressants
Serzone (nefazodone)
Sinequan (doxepin)
Surmontil (trimipramine)
Symbyax (fluoxetine and olanzapine)
Tofranil (imipramine)
Triavil (perphenazine and amitriptyline)
Viibryd (vilazodone)
Vivactil (protriptyline)
Wellbutrin (bupropion)
Zoloft (sertraline)
Zyprexa (olanzapine)

That's just anti-anxiety.
 
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