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    More: Sad, Egypt Crisis, United States, Deputy Secretary of State, Egypt, Mr Morsi, military dictatorship, democratic transition, security interests  
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1596 clicks; posted to Politics » on 16 Aug 2013 at 12:57 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



41 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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2013-08-16 01:02:09 PM  
Why are we involved in the internal affairs of Egypt anyways?
 
2013-08-16 01:04:00 PM  

Weaver95: Why are we involved in the internal affairs of Egypt anyways?


suez canal
 
2013-08-16 01:07:37 PM  
Romney?  Is that you?
 
2013-08-16 01:07:57 PM  

Weaver95: Why are we involved in the internal affairs of Egypt anyways?


TAWP. Everything that happens everywhere in the world is America's fault and America's responsibility.*


*(while POTUS = Democrat)
 
2013-08-16 01:09:18 PM  
In all fairness to the US, there's not really a whole lot we could possibly do. It's not like there's even a remote possibility of military intervention. There's really only the threat of withdrawing our aid which, powerful as it is, isn't going to stop people who want to fight from fighting. Sanctions would only make things worse.
 
2013-08-16 01:09:45 PM  

TrollingForColumbine: Weaver95: Why are we involved in the internal affairs of Egypt anyways?

suez canal


Yeah, as much as we derp about national interests around the globe the Suez Canal actually holds water.

/Ba-zing!
 
2013-08-16 01:14:20 PM  

Weaver95: Why are we involved in the internal affairs of Egypt anyways?


The Suez.
 
2013-08-16 01:18:25 PM  
With our past history of intervening in similar cases in other countries, for better and for worse, of course we're going to get called out on this one.  No matter which side we pick though, it's going to upset plenty of people, as will doing nothing.  At least doing nothing won't cost us anything in lives or military expenses though.

Let the situation play out and see what happens.
 
2013-08-16 01:21:38 PM  
syntax error
 
2013-08-16 01:21:57 PM  
What a crock of sh*t. And the money shot in this piece of garbage is a quote from John McCain, of all people. Pathetic.
 
2013-08-16 01:23:16 PM  

hardinparamedic: Weaver95: Why are we involved in the internal affairs of Egypt anyways?

The Suez.


He sounds Mexican this Suez fellah. Is he even a legal alien?
 
2013-08-16 01:23:37 PM  
Morsi is the one who screwed the pooch.  All this is on his head, and the heads of the Muslim Brotherhood.

Just because you won an election doesn't give you the right to dismantle the constitution.
 
2013-08-16 01:24:05 PM  

hobberwickey: In all fairness to the US, there's not really a whole lot we could possibly do. It's not like there's even a remote possibility of military intervention. There's really only the threat of withdrawing our aid which, powerful as it is, isn't going to stop people who want to fight from fighting. Sanctions would only make things worse.


We somehow managed to make everyone over there hate us over all of this, so that's something at least.
 
2013-08-16 01:25:28 PM  

Weaver95: Why are we involved in the internal affairs of Egypt anyways?


Israel
 
2013-08-16 01:28:17 PM  

Joe Peanut: hardinparamedic: Weaver95: Why are we involved in the internal affairs of Egypt anyways?

The Suez.

He sounds Mexican this Suez fellah. Is he even a legal alien?


Mexican? Je dois vous gifler au visage.
 
2013-08-16 01:30:15 PM  

hardinparamedic: Joe Peanut: hardinparamedic: Weaver95: Why are we involved in the internal affairs of Egypt anyways?

The Suez.

He sounds Mexican this Suez fellah. Is he even a legal alien?

Mexican? Je dois vous gifler au visage.


This is 'Murica. Speak English you Mexican!
 
2013-08-16 01:30:22 PM  

Kumana Wanalaia: Morsi is the one who screwed the pooch.  All this is on his head, and the heads of the Muslim Brotherhood.

Just because you won an election doesn't give you the right to dismantle the constitution.


It's the M.O. of the  religious far-right the world 'round. They're great at organizing/getting out the vote, but once they win office they immediately try to enshrine their zany moralistic beliefs into law and are flabbergasted that not everyone dreams of living in a theo-fascist utopia.
 
2013-08-16 01:34:44 PM  
Well, seeing as the US holds the power in the world, people are going to get pissy no matter what they do.

Leadership: you can't please everyone, all the time
 
2013-08-16 01:38:00 PM  
Where is your god now Dems?

www.hyscience.com
 
2013-08-16 01:48:39 PM  

TrollingForColumbine: Weaver95: Why are we involved in the internal affairs of Egypt anyways?

suez canal


And the neighborhood. Israel carried out drone strikes against militants in Egypt earlier this week.
 
2013-08-16 01:55:11 PM  

Weaver95: Why are we involved in the internal affairs of Egypt anyways?


It is an unfortunate leftover from the cold war.  The whole "regional stability" argument of staying involved.  Egypt played the game really well by flirting very seriously with the Soviets, but landed the US as a benefactor.  The whole get them to make peace with Israel and the US will kick in a huge chunk of money.  But that is now ancient history.

In more recent years, US support was generally for "stability" purposes - and we essentially bribed Egypt to be either neutral or tacitly supporting our objectives in the Middle East (read global energy access stability - didn't want to disrupt the flow of oil to China, and didn't want China to insure that flow was uninterrupted themselves).  I won't speculate how much it was to prevent unrest as we stomped on Iraq.  Looked at from a certain perspective, there isn't a lot of difference between Mubarak and Saddam.  Egypt itself is a minor player in the oil game, but the disruptions can flow across borders all too easily.  It wouldn't take much of a disruption in Saudi Arabia to really screw up the world's oil markets.

So providing a stream of aid to Egypt means we "kind of care" what goes on there.  From one perspective we're "meddling", from another "Protecting our interests".  What I think we can all safely agree on is we're not succeeding in the way we want to.
 
2013-08-16 02:05:34 PM  
Because we're so good with the democracy thing here.  What's that Patriot Act?  People are saying nasty things about us on the internet?  To the NSA-copter!
 
2013-08-16 02:10:41 PM  
Yes, Egypt is a clustermug turning into a full blown civil war, but articles written from this bs angle of "how does this affect our reputation in the middle east?" are disingenuous nonsense. We can't win there.

Until Egypt fosters a literacy rate that reflects the current century and creates an actual education system the man on the street's opinion matters as much to me as a disability collecting TeaTard's.  Even at lots of the private schools, and certainly at public institutions educational standards are  non-existent.  From elementary school up to graduate level its an insulting joke of a curriculum, when a standard curriculum is even used instead of just forcing kids to memorize bits of the Quran.  Yet those who attend are able to tell themselves they've been educated. They most certainly have not.

Even before the government exploded it was common practice for bureaucrats to outright falsify stats for anything on which stats were gathered. Egypt was in crisis even before the revolution. Until Egyptians take more responsibility for their affairs their will be no end to this. I've never been to a country so conspiratorially minded, and its maddening to see how many Egyptians resort to outlandish talk of the Freemasons (yes, really) instead of taking a hard look at the decay and radicalization that has spread through the country since Sadat was murdered.

Plural of anecdote is not data I know, but while living through the revolution in Cairo the first time around I heard the following bits of political analysis from so many different Cairenes (who, bear in mind are highly cosmopolitan scholars compared to Egypt's much larger rural population) that I feel them common enough to spout off on:

-Mubarak was an agent of the Jews(USA) trying to suppress the brave military men.

-The Military are the agents of the Jews(USA) trying to overthrow the imperfect but good Mubarak.

-The Freemasons (Jews[USA]) are in total control of all global affairs,only the new Caliphate can stop them"

-"We need George W. Bush to return to power in America because Obama is a Muslim." - from Copts

Swap Morsi for Mubarak and you have the same thing today. Until such craziness is out of the mainstream of political discourse I don't think anyone should care about our reputation there. We cannot win.
 
2013-08-16 02:22:34 PM  

StrangeQ: Because we're so good with the democracy thing here.  What's that Patriot Act?  People are saying nasty things about us on the internet?  To the NSA-copter!


Yeah, because the United States Military is flying over New York in gunships gunning down Occupy protesters. Totally the same thing.
 
2013-08-16 02:28:07 PM  
i dunno, maybe we should LEAVE? i mean Bush's strategy of troops on the ground sure as hell didn't work in the end, why would us throwing our weight around in others' domestic crisis be that much better?
 
2013-08-16 02:33:14 PM  

hardinparamedic: Yeah, because the United States Military is flying over New York in gunships gunning down Occupy protesters. Totally the same thing.


The next time there's food riots.

application.denofgeek.com
 
2013-08-16 02:46:42 PM  
It's not politically correct to admit that Democracy isn't compatible with every culture, Egypt is a good example.
In a generation or 4 ? sure. Right now ? doesn't work with arab/islamic culture, education and mentality.
 
2013-08-16 02:58:23 PM  

slayer199: hardinparamedic: Yeah, because the United States Military is flying over New York in gunships gunning down Occupy protesters. Totally the same thing.

The next time there's food riots.

[application.denofgeek.com image 480x300]


irl.cs.ucla.edu
 
2013-08-16 03:10:36 PM  

Pizdets: I've never been to a country so conspiratorially minded


It's a common theme in arab/islamic mentality and culture.
Why take responsibility for your actions when you can blame the usual scapegoats (usually the jews/USA) ?
 
2013-08-16 03:23:22 PM  

TrollingForColumbine: Weaver95: Why are we involved in the internal affairs of Egypt anyways?

suez canal


This, and we pay them to keep from messing with Israel.
 
2013-08-16 03:30:52 PM  

AdamK: i dunno, maybe we should LEAVE? i mean Bush's strategy of troops on the ground sure as hell didn't work in the end, why would us throwing our weight around in others' domestic crisis be that much better?


Bush did a half-assed boots on ground execution.  You want to see that strategy work look at 1945 to present Germany and Japan.  Both are economic superpowers, both are staunch US allies, both are representative democracies (though I don't like some of the crap that the Japanese prime minister pushes about revising history).  And in both cases we still have boots on the ground.

Where we failed in Iraq: we were talking a nation building game and then only showed up with 1/3rd of the team.  We then moved too quickly in some areas (handing back sovereignty) and too slowly in others (getting services up and running).  We botched dealing with the Iraq army, we didn't deal with the Islamist factions (and by deal with here, I mean stomp on).  Iraq would have been one of the easier places to impose a secular only constitution - that's what the Baath party had been in the first place (secular fascist, but secular none the less).  But we had no vision of what we wanted and made no attempts to achieve what little vision we did have.  Somehow GWB must have figured that the Iraqis were going to spontaneously become Texans by knocking off Saddam.

Note - I am only dissecting the mistakes after having decided to kick Iraq's ass.  Invading a country on a pretense because the its tin pot leader took a pot shot at my daddy isn't a good reason to do so.  Al-Qaeda was essentially PNG in Iraq already - we should have kept our focus in Afghanistan and other non-functioning states.
 
2013-08-16 04:01:56 PM  
I could give less of a shiat about what Europeans, ESPECIALLY Brits think about US policy in Egypt.

It's your former farking colony (protectorate, same thing), and you're 4 hours flight away. Your the ones who will have to deal with the inevitable refugees from a civil war. You figure it the fark out if we're so incompetent.

Oh you'd rather not deal with it and blame us regardless of how it turns out? No shiat.
 
2013-08-16 04:29:48 PM  

Wooly Bully: What a crock of sh*t. And the money shot in this piece of garbage is a quote from John McCain, of all people. Pathetic.


Thud McCain, foreign policy genius!
 
2013-08-16 04:42:04 PM  

Name_Omitted: TrollingForColumbine: Weaver95: Why are we involved in the internal affairs of Egypt anyways?

suez canal

And the neighborhood. Israel carried out drone strikes against militants in Egypt earlier this week.


I was told by my government drone strikes are A-OK and a necessity for defending oneself.
 
2013-08-16 04:59:05 PM  

slayer199: Where is your god now Dems?

[www.hyscience.com image 236x294]


lol, that's awesome
 
2013-08-16 07:13:20 PM  
Very difficult situation. Can't hate on the brotherhood because they got elected and people want you to establish policy on when and how to support a military coup?
 
2013-08-16 08:14:33 PM  
Obama said he was going to change how the world perceived us, and he's delivering on that promise. Get another Nobel ready.
 
2013-08-16 08:33:58 PM  

jjorsett: Obama said he was going to change how the world perceived us, and he's delivering on that promise. Get another Nobel ready.


Good. It's about damn time we stopped being seen as the world police.
 
2013-08-16 08:43:17 PM  
But....we should have supported Morsi because he was democratically elected! No, that didn't work....

We should have supported the coup because Morsi was acting like a dictator! No, wait....

We should...we should DO SOMETHING because...because...WE'RE AMERICA, DAMMIT! WE'RE SUPPOSED TO DO SOMETHING!!! PEOPLE ARE DYING!!!

Yes, people are dying. And it's terrible. And they all hate each other. But if we go in, people will continue to die, and they'll all hate US for sticking our military might in where it doesn't belong. Let them sort it out, and keep Israel on a short leash. It's not our fight right now. Let them establish their own government--if it's a dictatorship again, well, then we'll deal with that when it happens. You'd think by now we'd have learned you can't impose "democracy" from outside and top down and by force of arms. Maybe this time we'll let it happen from inside and the bottom up. If we can just stop from DOING SOMETHING BECAUSE PEOPLE ARE DYING!!!!!
 
2013-08-17 08:08:15 AM  

Gyrfalcon: But....we should have supported Morsi because he was democratically elected! No, that didn't work....

We should have supported the coup because Morsi was acting like a dictator! No, wait....

We should...we should DO SOMETHING because...because...WE'RE AMERICA, DAMMIT! WE'RE SUPPOSED TO DO SOMETHING!!! PEOPLE ARE DYING!!!

Yes, people are dying. And it's terrible. And they all hate each other. But if we go in, people will continue to die, and they'll all hate US for sticking our military might in where it doesn't belong. Let them sort it out, and keep Israel on a short leash. It's not our fight right now. Let them establish their own government--if it's a dictatorship again, well, then we'll deal with that when it happens. You'd think by now we'd have learned you can't impose "democracy" from outside and top down and by force of arms. Maybe this time we'll let it happen from inside and the bottom up. If we can just stop from DOING SOMETHING BECAUSE PEOPLE ARE DYING!!!!!


Police really hate getting domestic calls.

They hate it because they know that they're walking into a situation where it doesn't matter that Billy-Ray has been beating Lurleen into raspberry chutney twice a day for the last six months, she needs help big-time and any normal human being would have, and should have, escaped.  But Lurleen isn't normal, or she would have left (or asked for help to leave) a looooong time ago.  At best she's got a bad case of Stockholm Syndrome, and at worst, she's convinced herself that this is what she deserves, and by God, she ain't ready to give up on ol' Billy-Ray yet, because "He's a good man!" and eventually she'll figure out what's wrong and fix him, you'll see.  So when the cops show up at the trailer park to stop the latest in a long series of violent, grueling beatings, it's not at all uncommon for both Lurleen AND Billy-Ray to turn on the cops--the same police who are theoretically there to help at least her.  Something SHOULD be done, but the only thing worse than doing nothing may be doing something that sends one of the officers to the morgue, probably right along with Lurleen and Billy-Ray, and God only knows who else.

This analogy sucks, and I thought I had an actual point here somewhere, but I'll be damned if I can remember what it is.  I guess it's probably that there really isn't ANYTHING we can do here that's actually good, and that the best thing that I can see us doing is to keep our happy asses out of it until the dust settles, and then deal with whoever manages to come out on top, because we flat-out can't fix what's wrong in Egypt or anywhere else.  The Middle East has been so colossally farked for so long that any lasting solutions will have to come from within.
 
2013-08-17 12:40:35 PM  
Not all social OS's are support democracy.exe.

The file USA-democracy.exe is propriety and will only run on specific versions of operating systems.  Contact vendor for more details.
 
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