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(Slate)   The Sheriff of the Florida county whose officers shot an unarmed black man in the legs two weeks ago complains that he is "hobbled by the law". Which, as we all can agree, is the worst way to be hobbled   (slate.com) divider line 78
    More: Asinine, florida, police officers, black man, county, sheriffs  
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1615 clicks; posted to Politics » on 16 Aug 2013 at 12:57 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-08-16 11:14:57 AM
"In order to uphold the law, we need to break it or be given carte blanche for our actions"
 
2013-08-16 11:23:42 AM
Two weeks ago, two Florida deputies shot 15 rounds at a 60-year-old unarmed Florida man who was looking for his cigarettes in his mother's car, parked in his own driveway. Two of those bullets hit him in his left leg

2 for 15. Good guys with guns.
 
2013-08-16 11:24:23 AM
A week later six Escambia County deputies climbed through the window of a private residence, without a warrant, dragging a sleeping couple out of their bed, shooting at their two dogs, one of which later died

I bet that did wonders for police relations with the community.
 
2013-08-16 11:28:52 AM
That word...etc.
 
2013-08-16 11:31:57 AM
Dick.
 
2013-08-16 11:32:21 AM
A week later six Escambia County deputies climbed through the window of a private residence, without a warrant, dragging a sleeping couple out of their bed, shooting at their two dogs, one of which later died

When police break into your house without a warrant and detain you, isn't that kidnapping??
 
2013-08-16 11:37:13 AM
I think I've seen this guy post in Fark threads.
They have a racially segregated county jail? This year?

I looked it up, he's referencing a case where a woman's boyfriend conspired with another couple acquainted with her, to murder her for her disability check.
And since the woman was white, and her boyfriend and the other couple where black, and the murder was particularly brutal, that means... the problem is black people.
But don't call him racist. If anything, that makes you the racist. It's statistics.
 
2013-08-16 11:37:40 AM

vernonFL: A week later six Escambia County deputies climbed through the window of a private residence, without a warrant, dragging a sleeping couple out of their bed, shooting at their two dogs, one of which later died

When police break into your house without a warrant and detain you, isn't that kidnapping??


Breaking and entering, illegal discharge of a firearm, illegal arrest, reckless endangerment, animal cruelty, and kidnapping are the likely charges you or I would face if we did this.  Basically life in prison.

These filthy animals will get two weeks paid vacation.
 
2013-08-16 11:38:08 AM

vernonFL: A week later six Escambia County deputies climbed through the window of a private residence, without a warrant, dragging a sleeping couple out of their bed, shooting at their two dogs, one of which later died

When police break into your house without a warrant and detain you, isn't that kidnapping??


Nope. It's heroic life-saving measures that you can't understand because you don't know what they go through, civilian.
 
2013-08-16 11:44:58 AM

Marcus Aurelius: A week later six Escambia County deputies climbed through the window of a private residence, without a warrant, dragging a sleeping couple out of their bed, shooting at their two dogs, one of which later died

I bet that did wonders for police relations with the community.


Well, the article did say that the couple was white, so in order to maintain the outrage theme here, I must assume that the dogs were black.
 
2013-08-16 11:49:43 AM

Amos Quito: Well, the article did say that the couple was white, so in order to maintain the outrage theme here, I must assume that the dogs were black


I doubt it.  Shooting dogs is one of the perks of being a policeman.  They LOVE to shoot dogs.
 
2013-08-16 11:53:36 AM
tallguywithglasseson:
I think I've seen this guy post in Fark threads.
They have a racially segregated county jail? This year?



Have you considered that the segregation may have been for the protection of the inmates?

Maybe the white prisoners were routinely beating and brutalizing the black prisoners, and they had to be separated - you know - in the same way the women are segregated from men

Did you think of that?
 
2013-08-16 11:57:55 AM

vernonFL: A week later six Escambia County deputies climbed through the window of a private residence, without a warrant, dragging a sleeping couple out of their bed, shooting at their two dogs, one of which later died

When police break into your house without a warrant and detain you, isn't that kidnapping??



A warrant?

How quaint!
 
2013-08-16 12:01:14 PM

Amos Quito: Maybe the white prisoners were routinely beating and brutalizing the black prisoners, and they had to be separated - you know - in the same way the women are segregated from men


Blacks and whites, women and men... got it.
 
2013-08-16 12:07:45 PM
I'm not defending the deputies or the sheriff here, but we all may be missing a lot of background stuff here. So I'm going for Devil's Advocate here.

The two deputies who shot the dude may have been dealing with a drunk individual who didn't respond well to their commands. So what was the BAT on the guy after he was in hospital?

As for the ones who entered the house, they may have thought they were pursuing the offender (upside down bucket with footprint on it) from the earlier incident. Why the couple and their dogs didn't respond to the deputies at their door is interesting, IMHO. Did the deputies really knock, or were the couple ignoring them?
 
2013-08-16 12:11:09 PM
Looks like our friend the Sheriff is likely going to lose control of the jail for a whole host of reasons found by the DOJ, including unsafe conditions for inmates (despite the *ahem* safety-minded policy of racial segregation).
They claim to have desegregated as of April 2013, because of the friendly visit from the DOJ. That's 2013. Not 1965.
 
2013-08-16 12:22:46 PM
memecrunch.com
 
2013-08-16 12:44:32 PM

AirForceVet: I'm not defending the deputies or the sheriff here, but we all may be missing a lot of background stuff here. So I'm going for Devil's Advocate here.

The two deputies who shot the dude may have been dealing with a drunk individual who didn't respond well to their commands. So what was the BAT on the guy after he was in hospital?

As for the ones who entered the house, they may have thought they were pursuing the offender (upside down bucket with footprint on it) from the earlier incident. Why the couple and their dogs didn't respond to the deputies at their door is interesting, IMHO. Did the deputies really knock, or were the couple ignoring them?


OK, I followed a few of the links in the article.  The cops say he wasn't compliant and lunged at them with a shiny metallic object.  A teenaged girl who was an eyewitness says she never saw him provoke them.  Given the fact that the police haven't released any details about his BAC, I'd say he was most likely dead sober.

For the home invasion: well, if somebody I don't know starts banging on my front door at 2:40 in the morning, then assuming I woke up to begin with, I probably wouldn't open it either.  As the sheriff said - "We live in a very violent society."  And even if they had blue lights flashing and yelled "POLICE" - well, it's pretty clear that a good bit of the violence in that county is performed by people with ... blue lights flashing and yelling police.
 
2013-08-16 12:59:43 PM
Yes, but was the black man wearing a hoodie? There you go.
 
2013-08-16 01:00:31 PM
img59.imageshack.us
 
2013-08-16 01:03:24 PM
encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com
This is where the law stops and I start - sucker!  Now, if you'll excuse me I'd like to cut my pizza in half with a pair of scissors and then retrieve my gun cleaning kit from the refrigerator - both of which actions make very little sense in relation to my character and are not fully explained.  Also, you're the disease, and I'm the cure.
 
2013-08-16 01:09:57 PM
This cop needs to be picked up by an unmarked van in the night and dropped off wearing a Klan outfit in Harlem at midnight on a Saturday in August.
 
2013-08-16 01:13:41 PM

AirForceVet: As for the ones who entered the house, they may have thought they were pursuing the offender (upside down bucket with footprint on it) from the earlier incident. Why the couple and their dogs didn't respond to the deputies at their door is interesting, IMHO. Did the deputies really knock, or were the couple ignoring them?


There's an outside chance that they may have been asleep.
 
2013-08-16 01:13:51 PM
Black people should just cite the castle law and start shooting back at the cops. Hey, its all good! The courts said so.
 
2013-08-16 01:19:13 PM
Shut up racist LEO.
 
2013-08-16 01:20:56 PM

Karac: AirForceVet: I'm not defending the deputies or the sheriff here, but we all may be missing a lot of background stuff here. So I'm going for Devil's Advocate here.

The two deputies who shot the dude may have been dealing with a drunk individual who didn't respond well to their commands. So what was the BAT on the guy after he was in hospital?

As for the ones who entered the house, they may have thought they were pursuing the offender (upside down bucket with footprint on it) from the earlier incident. Why the couple and their dogs didn't respond to the deputies at their door is interesting, IMHO. Did the deputies really knock, or were the couple ignoring them?

OK, I followed a few of the links in the article.  The cops say he wasn't compliant and lunged at them with a shiny metallic object.  A teenaged girl who was an eyewitness says she never saw him provoke them.  Given the fact that the police haven't released any details about his BAC, I'd say he was most likely dead sober.

For the home invasion: well, if somebody I don't know starts banging on my front door at 2:40 in the morning, then assuming I woke up to begin with, I probably wouldn't open it either.  As the sheriff said - "We live in a very violent society."  And even if they had blue lights flashing and yelled "POLICE" - well, it's pretty clear that a good bit of the violence in that county is performed by people with ... blue lights flashing and yelling police.


It's farking insane that we don't have shoulder-mounted cameras required for police responding to potentially violent situations. There's no good reason, especially considering the ridiculous amount of money being spent to militarize the bastards.
 
2013-08-16 01:21:30 PM
Just one bad apple... or a couple. Isolated incident, non-story. Do you want anarchy in the streets? This is the price we pay for a civil society. Insert mealy-mouthed bullshiat here.
 
2013-08-16 01:23:54 PM
You see these officers are executing a little known clause in Obamacare. That man who was looking for his cigarettes, he was going to die a long arduous death due to lung cancer, and the LEOs were just saving the state millions in health care costs.

They should be punished for their poor aim, now with the damaged leg and smoking habits... that person is just going to cost the state more health care dollars!
 
2013-08-16 01:24:25 PM

Weaver95: Black people should just cite the castle law and start shooting back at the cops. Hey, its all good! The courts said so.


Problem is that the castle law specifically denies shooting a cop in what would otherwise be a justified self-defense.

If someone breaks into your home at 3 in the morning and puts a knife to your throat and tries to rape you, but you manage to shoot and kill the intruder, the castle law would protect you from criminal and civil liability... unless the would-be rapist is an on-duty cop, in which case you'll face the death penalty regardless of other factors (such as acting in self-defense against someone who has just committed several violent felonies and was about to commit several more)
 
2013-08-16 01:25:43 PM

UrukHaiGuyz: Karac: AirForceVet: I'm not defending the deputies or the sheriff here, but we all may be missing a lot of background stuff here. So I'm going for Devil's Advocate here.

The two deputies who shot the dude may have been dealing with a drunk individual who didn't respond well to their commands. So what was the BAT on the guy after he was in hospital?

As for the ones who entered the house, they may have thought they were pursuing the offender (upside down bucket with footprint on it) from the earlier incident. Why the couple and their dogs didn't respond to the deputies at their door is interesting, IMHO. Did the deputies really knock, or were the couple ignoring them?

OK, I followed a few of the links in the article.  The cops say he wasn't compliant and lunged at them with a shiny metallic object.  A teenaged girl who was an eyewitness says she never saw him provoke them.  Given the fact that the police haven't released any details about his BAC, I'd say he was most likely dead sober.

For the home invasion: well, if somebody I don't know starts banging on my front door at 2:40 in the morning, then assuming I woke up to begin with, I probably wouldn't open it either.  As the sheriff said - "We live in a very violent society."  And even if they had blue lights flashing and yelled "POLICE" - well, it's pretty clear that a good bit of the violence in that county is performed by people with ... blue lights flashing and yelling police.

It's farking insane that we don't have shoulder-mounted cameras required for police responding to potentially violent situations. There's no good reason, especially considering the ridiculous amount of money being spent to militarize the bastards.


Chest-mounted GoCam's.

That, and all footage from dashcams and GoCams should be streamed to the public "cloud", as well as recorded, to be viewed by anybody or recalled at a later date.

These people have guns pointed at us, for crying out loud. Some accountability would be nice.
 
2013-08-16 01:26:45 PM

SirGunslinger: You see these officers are executing a little known clause in Obamacare. That man who was looking for his cigarettes, he was going to die a long arduous death due to lung cancer, and the LEOs were just saving the state millions in health care costs.

They should be punished for their poor aim, now with the damaged leg and smoking habits... that person is just going to cost the state more health care dollars!


Obamobile Death Panels?
 
2013-08-16 01:29:48 PM

UrukHaiGuyz: It's farking insane that we don't have shoulder-mounted cameras required for police responding to potentially violent situations. There's no good reason, especially considering the ridiculous amount of money being spent to militarize the bastards.


Exactly. This shouldn't be about wondering what really happened. It should be about examining the evidence for what happened. Look, if the cops followed a legitimate procedure, and someone whom they had reason to believe may have been violent undertook an action that gave them a genuine concern in the moment that their safety was at risk, I'd back the cops every time, even when it turns out to be a toy gun or a cigarette pack. On the other hand, when the cops act like power-hungry racist petty tyrants who can't shoot straight, they should end up in jail for a long time.

Is there even a serious argument AGAINST requiring confrontations to be recorded?
 
2013-08-16 01:30:30 PM

UrukHaiGuyz: It's farking insane that we don't have shoulder-mounted cameras required for police responding to potentially violent situations. There's no good reason, especially considering the ridiculous amount of money being spent to militarize the bastards.


encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com

Helmet cam from Aliens.
 
2013-08-16 01:31:26 PM

King Something: Weaver95: Black people should just cite the castle law and start shooting back at the cops. Hey, its all good! The courts said so.

Problem is that the castle law specifically denies shooting a cop in what would otherwise be a justified self-defense.

If someone breaks into your home at 3 in the morning and puts a knife to your throat and tries to rape you, but you manage to shoot and kill the intruder, the castle law would protect you from criminal and civil liability... unless the would-be rapist is an on-duty cop, in which case you'll face the death penalty regardless of other factors (such as acting in self-defense against someone who has just committed several violent felonies and was about to commit several more)


No law on any books in this country makes it illegal to defend yourself from an illegal physical assault by a police officer.

They may get away with a lot, but it doesn't work like you say it does.
 
2013-08-16 01:32:05 PM
shiat like this would be much easier to stomach if I didn't have to listen to pig apologists try to tell me how not all cops are bad every time it happens (which, at this point, seems to be multiple times per day).  These abuses are so frequent, at this point, that every cop is, at a minimum, complicit, if not a direct party.
 
2013-08-16 01:32:22 PM

Snapper Carr:


Came for this; leaving satisfied.
 
2013-08-16 01:38:09 PM

vernonFL: When police break into your house without a warrant and detain you, isn't that kidnapping??


In the criminal justice system, the people are represented by two separate yet equally important groups: the police, who investigatecommit crime; and the district attorneys, who prosecute ignore the offenders. These are their stories.
 
2013-08-16 01:38:33 PM

vernonFL: A week later six Escambia County deputies climbed through the window of a private residence, without a warrant, dragging a sleeping couple out of their bed, shooting at their two dogs, one of which later died

When police break into your house without a warrant and detain you, isn't that kidnapping??


There is a clause for hot pursuit that they would probably argue.  They were after a dangerous criminal, and they had reason to believe that the criminal was in the house.  Let's call it the "Boston Lock-down clause"
 
2013-08-16 01:40:00 PM

justGreg: UrukHaiGuyz: It's farking insane that we don't have shoulder-mounted cameras required for police responding to potentially violent situations. There's no good reason, especially considering the ridiculous amount of money being spent to militarize the bastards.

Exactly. This shouldn't be about wondering what really happened. It should be about examining the evidence for what happened. Look, if the cops followed a legitimate procedure, and someone whom they had reason to believe may have been violent undertook an action that gave them a genuine concern in the moment that their safety was at risk, I'd back the cops every time, even when it turns out to be a toy gun or a cigarette pack. On the other hand, when the cops act like power-hungry racist petty tyrants who can't shoot straight, they should end up in jail for a long time.

Is there even a serious argument AGAINST requiring confrontations to be recorded?


Well there was the judge that recently refused to watch a surveillance video in a police brutality case since (paraphrased)"video should only ever be used to support the police evidence, never to prove wrongdoing" because then they'd be afraid to do their job, or other such BS.
 
2013-08-16 01:42:19 PM

China White Tea: shiat like this would be much easier to stomach if I didn't have to listen to pig apologists try to tell me how not all cops are bad every time it happens (which, at this point, seems to be multiple times per day).  These abuses are so frequent, at this point, that every cop is, at a minimum, complicit, if not a direct party.


Your post is incredibly stupid. That is really all that can be said.

Every cop in the country is complicit with this stuff? How the hell do you conclude that? Is it because the rest of the cops in the country who aren't present at the events in the article don't skip due process and go shoot the cops who did this?
Would that world be a preferable one to live in?
 
2013-08-16 01:43:07 PM

Thingster: Well there was the judge that recently refused to watch a surveillance video in a police brutality case since (paraphrased)"video should only ever be used to support the police evidence, never to prove wrongdoing" because then they'd be afraid to do their job, or other such BS.


[Citation Needed]
 
2013-08-16 01:44:43 PM

Testiclaw: UrukHaiGuyz: Karac: AirForceVet: I'm not defending the deputies or the sheriff here, but we all may be missing a lot of background stuff here. So I'm going for Devil's Advocate here.

The two deputies who shot the dude may have been dealing with a drunk individual who didn't respond well to their commands. So what was the BAT on the guy after he was in hospital?

As for the ones who entered the house, they may have thought they were pursuing the offender (upside down bucket with footprint on it) from the earlier incident. Why the couple and their dogs didn't respond to the deputies at their door is interesting, IMHO. Did the deputies really knock, or were the couple ignoring them?

OK, I followed a few of the links in the article.  The cops say he wasn't compliant and lunged at them with a shiny metallic object.  A teenaged girl who was an eyewitness says she never saw him provoke them.  Given the fact that the police haven't released any details about his BAC, I'd say he was most likely dead sober.

For the home invasion: well, if somebody I don't know starts banging on my front door at 2:40 in the morning, then assuming I woke up to begin with, I probably wouldn't open it either.  As the sheriff said - "We live in a very violent society."  And even if they had blue lights flashing and yelled "POLICE" - well, it's pretty clear that a good bit of the violence in that county is performed by people with ... blue lights flashing and yelling police.

It's farking insane that we don't have shoulder-mounted cameras required for police responding to potentially violent situations. There's no good reason, especially considering the ridiculous amount of money being spent to militarize the bastards.

Chest-mounted GoCam's.

That, and all footage from dashcams and GoCams should be streamed to the public "cloud", as well as recorded, to be viewed by anybody or recalled at a later date.

These people have guns pointed at us, for crying out loud. Some accountability would be nice.


CSB time: a friend of mine is representing a kid who got beat up by a gang of Seattle cops. There was a dashboard camera in the squad car nearest the beat down, so my friend subpoenaed the video. He was told that the camera had somehow malfunctioned and the video lost. Imagine his surprise, then, when the video later turned up in a big batch of discovery (for that matter, imagine the city attorney's surprise). Well, the video shows a plain clothes detective wailing on the kid, so my friend asked his identity. It seems that no one in the department has any idea who he is. Go figure.
 
2013-08-16 01:46:52 PM
Every cop in the country is complicit with this stuff? How the hell do you conclude that? Is it because the rest of the cops in the country who aren't present at the events in the article don't skip due process and go shoot the cops who did this?
Would that world be a preferable one to live in?


They've so frequently demonstrated their inadequate abilities as marksmen that I'm sure they would mostly hit bystanders.  Otherwise, that sounds like a pretty solid plan.
 
2013-08-16 01:47:07 PM

Testiclaw: SirGunslinger: You see these officers are executing a little known clause in Obamacare. That man who was looking for his cigarettes, he was going to die a long arduous death due to lung cancer, and the LEOs were just saving the state millions in health care costs.

They should be punished for their poor aim, now with the damaged leg and smoking habits... that person is just going to cost the state more health care dollars!

Obamobile Death Panels?


You down with ODP? Yeah you know me.
 
2013-08-16 01:48:02 PM

Amos Quito: tallguywithglasseson:
I think I've seen this guy post in Fark threads.
They have a racially segregated county jail? This year?


Have you considered that the segregation may have been for the protection of the inmates?

Maybe the white prisoners were routinely beating and brutalizing the black prisoners, and they had to be separated - you know - in the same way the women are segregated from men

Did you think of that?


Since the jail population averages 65% black, I don't think so.
http://colorlines.com/archives/2013/05/justice_department_finds_raci al ly_segregated_black-only_pods_in_florida_county_jail.html
 
2013-08-16 01:48:38 PM

Name_Omitted: Thingster: Well there was the judge that recently refused to watch a surveillance video in a police brutality case since (paraphrased)"video should only ever be used to support the police evidence, never to prove wrongdoing" because then they'd be afraid to do their job, or other such BS.

[Citation Needed]


It's a 30 second Google search. You can add words like "July" and "St. Louis"
 
2013-08-16 01:50:31 PM

BMulligan: Testiclaw: UrukHaiGuyz: Karac: AirForceVet: I'm not defending the deputies or the sheriff here, but we all may be missing a lot of background stuff here. So I'm going for Devil's Advocate here.

The two deputies who shot the dude may have been dealing with a drunk individual who didn't respond well to their commands. So what was the BAT on the guy after he was in hospital?

As for the ones who entered the house, they may have thought they were pursuing the offender (upside down bucket with footprint on it) from the earlier incident. Why the couple and their dogs didn't respond to the deputies at their door is interesting, IMHO. Did the deputies really knock, or were the couple ignoring them?

OK, I followed a few of the links in the article.  The cops say he wasn't compliant and lunged at them with a shiny metallic object.  A teenaged girl who was an eyewitness says she never saw him provoke them.  Given the fact that the police haven't released any details about his BAC, I'd say he was most likely dead sober.

For the home invasion: well, if somebody I don't know starts banging on my front door at 2:40 in the morning, then assuming I woke up to begin with, I probably wouldn't open it either.  As the sheriff said - "We live in a very violent society."  And even if they had blue lights flashing and yelled "POLICE" - well, it's pretty clear that a good bit of the violence in that county is performed by people with ... blue lights flashing and yelling police.

It's farking insane that we don't have shoulder-mounted cameras required for police responding to potentially violent situations. There's no good reason, especially considering the ridiculous amount of money being spent to militarize the bastards.

Chest-mounted GoCam's.

That, and all footage from dashcams and GoCams should be streamed to the public "cloud", as well as recorded, to be viewed by anybody or recalled at a later date.

These people have guns pointed at us, for crying out loud. Some accountability would be nice.

CSB time: a friend of mine is representing a kid who got beat up by a gang of Seattle cops. There was a dashboard camera in the squad car nearest the beat down, so my friend subpoenaed the video. He was told that the camera had somehow malfunctioned and the video lost. Imagine his surprise, then, when the video later turned up in a big batch of discovery (for that matter, imagine the city attorney's surprise). Well, the video shows a plain clothes detective wailing on the kid, so my friend asked his identity. It seems that no one in the department has any idea who he is. Go figure.


That's farked up.

And completely expected, sadly.

Cops would be more than willing to identify all officers involved and release video footage if it showed their side of the story. It would be an instant get-out-of-investigation card.

The reason the tapes are so rare is because of things like your friend found out. Pigs are pigs, and they turn into a wall of blue in order to protect themselves.

It's absolute horeshiat.
 
2013-08-16 01:51:22 PM

Fart_Machine: Testiclaw: SirGunslinger: You see these officers are executing a little known clause in Obamacare. That man who was looking for his cigarettes, he was going to die a long arduous death due to lung cancer, and the LEOs were just saving the state millions in health care costs.

They should be punished for their poor aim, now with the damaged leg and smoking habits... that person is just going to cost the state more health care dollars!

Obamobile Death Panels?

You down with ODP? Yeah you know me.


ODP is down with me due to my pre-existing conditions.

:(
 
2013-08-16 01:52:46 PM

Smackledorfer: No law on any books in this country makes it illegal to defend yourself from an illegal physical assault by a police officer.

They may get away with a lot, but it doesn't work like you say it does.


You're in a very dangerous legal grey area.

Last year there was a case that went to (IIRC) the Michigan State Supreme court - a man refused to allow the police to enter his house without a warrant and was arrested for preventing them from doing so. The court ruled that even if police don't have a warrant to enter your house you do not have the right to attempt to prevent them from entering. Their justification was that (1) major problems could arise if people can start obstructing police based on their opinion that the police do not have the authority to do whatever it is they are doing and (2) the proper route for redress of police abuse of power is through the court system, not resisting the abuse at the time.

Unless it is absolutely clear cut that the cop is doing something that they absolutely would not be permitted to do in the course of their legal duties (sexual assault, for example) you could easily find yourself putting your word against a police officer's, which is a terrible situation to find yourself in.

In a lot of states police also retain their authority to enforce the law and the legal protections that come with that (specific crimes like 'assaulting an officer') even when they are off duty. Which means, for example, that someone who gets into a bar fight with an off duty cop could find themselves in a world of shiat even if they were not the aggressor.
 
2013-08-16 02:00:03 PM

Smackledorfer: King Something: Weaver95: Black people should just cite the castle law and start shooting back at the cops. Hey, its all good! The courts said so.

Problem is that the castle law specifically denies shooting a cop in what would otherwise be a justified self-defense.

If someone breaks into your home at 3 in the morning and puts a knife to your throat and tries to rape you, but you manage to shoot and kill the intruder, the castle law would protect you from criminal and civil liability... unless the would-be rapist is an on-duty cop, in which case you'll face the death penalty regardless of other factors (such as acting in self-defense against someone who has just committed several violent felonies and was about to commit several more)

No law on any books in this country makes it illegal to defend yourself from an illegal physical assault by a police officer.

They may get away with a lot, but it doesn't work like you say it does.


It does in Florida. FS776.013(2)(d) says so:

776.013Home protection; use of deadly force; presumption of fear of death or great bodily harm.-
(1)A person is presumed to have held a reasonable fear of imminent peril of death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another when using defensive force that is intended or likely to cause death or great bodily harm to another if:(a)The person against whom the defensive force was used was in the process of unlawfully and forcefully entering, or had unlawfully and forcibly entered, a dwelling, residence, or occupied vehicle, or if that person had removed or was attempting to remove another against that person's will from the dwelling, residence, or occupied vehicle; and(b)The person who uses defensive force knew or had reason to believe that an unlawful and forcible entry or unlawful and forcible act was occurring or had occurred.(2)The presumption set forth in subsection (1) does not apply if: ...

(d)The person against whom the defensive force is used is a law enforcement officer, as defined in s. 943.10(14), who enters or attempts to enter a dwelling, residence, or vehicle in the performance of his or her official duties and the officer identified himself or herself in accordance with any applicable law or the person using force knew or reasonably should have known that the person entering or attempting to enter was a law enforcement officer.


776.032(1) deals with civil and criminal immunity:

776.032Immunity from criminal prosecution and civil action for justifiable use of force.-
(1)A person who uses force as permitted in s. 776.012, s. 776.013, or s. 776.031 is justified in using such force and is immune from criminal prosecution and civil action for the use of such force, unless the person against whom force was used is a law enforcement officer, as defined in s. 943.10(14), who was acting in the performance of his or her official duties and the officer identified himself or herself in accordance with any applicable law or the person using force knew or reasonably should have known that the person was a law enforcement officer. As used in this subsection, the term "criminal prosecution" includes arresting, detaining in custody, and charging or prosecuting the defendant.
776.051 deals with use of force against cops:

776.051Use of force in resisting arrest or making an arrest or in the execution of a legal duty; prohibition.-
(1)A person is not justified in the use of force to resist an arrest by a law enforcement officer, or to resist a law enforcement officer who is engaged in the execution of a legal duty, if the law enforcement officer was acting in good faith and he or she is known, or reasonably appears, to be a law enforcement officer.(2)A law enforcement officer, or any person whom the officer has summoned or directed to assist him or her, is not justified in the use of force if the arrest or execution of a legal duty is unlawful and known by him or her to be unlawful.
Notice how .051(2) specifically says "and known" but doesn't immediately follow up with something like "or reasonably should have known." This means that if cop hog-ties someone and then blows their brains out with a shotgun at point blank range, all the cop has to say is "I didn't know that was illegal" and he or she is completely immune from any criminal and civil liability from that execution, despite the fact that he or she reasonably should have known that tieing someone up and then shooting them in the head is probably unlawful under most circumstances.

And under 776.07, the cop could say "I was trying to prevent the person I tied up from escaping" for another Get Out Of Jail Free card:

776.07Use of force to prevent escape.-
(1)A law enforcement officer or other person who has an arrested person in his or her custody is justified in the use of any force which he or she reasonably believes to be necessary to prevent the escape of the arrested person from custody.


/tldr Florida's castle law makes it legal to defend yourself  from an illegal physical assault by anyone except a police officer
 
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