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(Washington Post)   Egypt authorizes further use of live ammunition against pro-Morsi protesters. Well that's worked out well so far   (washingtonpost.com) divider line 75
    More: Asinine, Mohamed Morsi, Egypt, Nile River, Mohamed ElBaradei, United Nations Security Council, military aid, objections  
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1565 clicks; posted to Main » on 15 Aug 2013 at 6:07 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-08-15 05:37:29 PM  
I am not a fan at all of the Muslim Brotherhood but this isn't going to end well, IMHO.
 
2013-08-15 05:40:57 PM  

AirForceVet: I am not a fan at all of the Muslim Brotherhood but this isn't going to end well, IMHO.


Yeah... that

/it's evident the military does NOT want the muslims having any power
 
2013-08-15 06:00:41 PM  

MaudlinMutantMollusk: AirForceVet: I am not a fan at all of the Muslim Brotherhood but this isn't going to end well, IMHO.

Yeah... that

/it's evident the military does NOT want the muslims having any power


While it's good that there's a hard line being drawn against Egypt turning into an Islamic theocracy, I agree that a military dictatorship isn't the best option either.

ElBaradei seemed like a good guy, I wonder if his resignation was entirely voluntary, or if it was strongly suggested by men with guns.  If he did it for the reasons he's claiming, I suppose it's a testament to his integrity, though I think it would have been better for him to stay and try to work the system from the inside.

If the military forced him out, then things could get worse before they get better.

I'm still hoping this will be a temporary state of affairs and that once the Morsi supporters and Muslim Brotherhood have been quashed that a democratic and secular election can take place.
 
2013-08-15 06:08:40 PM  
Free Bullet Friday!
 
2013-08-15 06:13:13 PM  
TuteTibiImperes [TotalFark]

While it's good that there's a hard line being drawn against Egypt turning into an Islamic theocracy, I agree that a military dictatorship isn't the best option either

True, but when the choice is between the two...

It's time to take sides. I with the .mil good aim and plentiful supplies
 
2013-08-15 06:15:45 PM  

OnlyM3: TuteTibiImperes [TotalFark]

While it's good that there's a hard line being drawn against Egypt turning into an Islamic theocracy, I agree that a military dictatorship isn't the best option either
True, but when the choice is between the two...

It's time to take sides. I with the .mil good aim and plentiful supplies


How about we don't pick sides, and just stay the hell out of this mess altogether?
 
2013-08-15 06:16:41 PM  
The bulk of the Egyptian officers have been trained in the US, so they have had a sense of what good government should be.
 
2013-08-15 06:17:10 PM  
The political system in the US has taught me I have to pick sides even if I don't agree with either party. In that spirit I"m going with team military dictatorship because even though the US government isn't coming out in support of them we aren't cutting off military aid and the side with the most guns usually wins.
 
2013-08-15 06:18:19 PM  
New AP death count is 638.
 
2013-08-15 06:18:44 PM  

toraque: OnlyM3: TuteTibiImperes [TotalFark]

While it's good that there's a hard line being drawn against Egypt turning into an Islamic theocracy, I agree that a military dictatorship isn't the best option either
True, but when the choice is between the two...

It's time to take sides. I with the .mil good aim and plentiful supplies

How about we don't pick sides, and just stay the hell out of this mess altogether?


We should certainly refrain from sending anyone in, but hopefully we can use our military aid as a carrot to keep the Egyptian military from going too far.
 
2013-08-15 06:18:47 PM  
They should switch to all gay government.
 
2013-08-15 06:19:04 PM  
Ready, Aim, Fatwā
 
2013-08-15 06:19:14 PM  

toraque: OnlyM3: TuteTibiImperes [TotalFark]

While it's good that there's a hard line being drawn against Egypt turning into an Islamic theocracy, I agree that a military dictatorship isn't the best option either
True, but when the choice is between the two...

It's time to take sides. I with the .mil good aim and plentiful supplies

How about we don't pick sides, and just stay the hell out of this mess altogether?



300 Kwatloos on the soldiers.
 
2013-08-15 06:21:18 PM  
Our good friends are hoping we intervene in some more countries.

Defense Minister announces a new AXIS of EVIL. With the ongoing civil war in Syria getting more and more complicated by the minute, Israeli Defense Minister Moshe Ya'alon has issued a public call for US military involvement, saying it was vital for the US to stop Assad from retaining power.

Ya'alon went on to announce a new "axis of evil," which he described as including Iran, Syria and Lebanon, and insisted it was "forbidden" to allow them to win the civil war, which is being fought against an increasingly al-Qaeda-dominated rebellion.
Ya'alon's position is in direct conflict with the CIA's own assessment, which put Syria's civil war as a "top threat" to US national security on the grounds that Assad losing and al-Qaeda taking over would be a disastrous situation. Yet it's the one Israel is apparently shooting for."
 
2013-08-15 06:21:24 PM  

BalugaJoe: They should switch to all gay government.


That would be fabulous.

...until they declared war on Russia.
 
2013-08-15 06:21:25 PM  

toraque: OnlyM3: TuteTibiImperes [TotalFark]

While it's good that there's a hard line being drawn against Egypt turning into an Islamic theocracy, I agree that a military dictatorship isn't the best option either
True, but when the choice is between the two...

It's time to take sides. I with the .mil good aim and plentiful supplies

How about we don't pick sides, and just stay the hell out of this mess altogether?


I don't pick sides when the exterminator kills a rat infestation. But I do want the exterminator to be successful.
 
2013-08-15 06:21:27 PM  
Works out well for whoever they're buying ammo from.
 
2013-08-15 06:21:33 PM  
Wow.  This is really gonna make Obama mad.  But he's running out of things he can cancel which is what he does when he's mad.  Oh my, oh my, whatever is our incompetent president to do?  It's such a quandary!
 
2013-08-15 06:24:21 PM  

Vectron: Our good friends are hoping we intervene in some more countries.

Defense Minister announces a new AXIS of EVIL. With the ongoing civil war in Syria getting more and more complicated by the minute, Israeli Defense Minister Moshe Ya'alon has issued a public call for US military involvement, saying it was vital for the US to stop Assad from retaining power.

Ya'alon went on to announce a new "axis of evil," which he described as including Iran, Syria and Lebanon, and insisted it was "forbidden" to allow them to win the civil war, which is being fought against an increasingly al-Qaeda-dominated rebellion.
Ya'alon's position is in direct conflict with the CIA's own assessment, which put Syria's civil war as a "top threat" to US national security on the grounds that Assad losing and al-Qaeda taking over would be a disastrous situation. Yet it's the one Israel is apparently shooting for."


How does an Al-Qaeda run Syria help Israel?  You'd think they'd be against that as well.
 
2013-08-15 06:24:36 PM  
Much as I hate to say this:

If being utterly farking ruthless now today is able to prevent another Middle Eastern Civil War ala Syria tomorrow, this is the best option.  That's not to say it's a good option, but it's the best bad option.
 
2013-08-15 06:25:19 PM  
www.welovetheiraqiinformationminister.com

It's not a military coup.
 
2013-08-15 06:25:43 PM  

ZzeusS: Free Bullet Friday!


* with purchase of a bullet of equal or lesser value.
 
2013-08-15 06:26:26 PM  

Vectron: [www.welovetheiraqiinformationminister.com image 300x225]

It's not a military coup.


Pedantic complaint. If the military never really let go of power is it still a coup?
 
2013-08-15 06:26:29 PM  

cybrwzrd: I don't pick sides when the exterminator kills a rat infestation. But I do want the exterminator to be successful.


So you are cheering for both sides then?

/me too
 
2013-08-15 06:29:32 PM  

umad: cybrwzrd: I don't pick sides when the exterminator kills a rat infestation. But I do want the exterminator to be successful.

So you are cheering for both sides then?

/me too


Naw, I just don't care what happens to the rats.
 
2013-08-15 06:34:31 PM  
Good, they'd better kill them all now they've started and get it over with. Then they can get back to putting an all-powerful but secular dictator in place. Works better in some countries than democracy.
 
2013-08-15 06:36:24 PM  
Violent religious extremists don't like it when the other side gets violent back at them.

Did anyone bring popcorn?
 
2013-08-15 06:36:49 PM  

MrHelpful: Wow.  This is really gonna make Obama mad.  But he's running out of things he can cancel which is what he does when he's mad.  Oh my, oh my, whatever is our incompetent president to do?  It's such a quandary!


There may be a small amount of foreign aid Obama could cancel.
 
2013-08-15 06:36:49 PM  

cybrwzrd: umad: cybrwzrd: I don't pick sides when the exterminator kills a rat infestation. But I do want the exterminator to be successful.

So you are cheering for both sides then?

/me too

Naw, I just don't care what happens to the rats.


Ha ha, you're paying for this massacre through your taxes.
 
2013-08-15 06:37:29 PM  
...At least they're too busy killing each other to pay as much attention to us...
 
2013-08-15 06:38:16 PM  
If they murder all the wannabe theocrats, they can have a real democracy after they've wiped off their blood stained hands.
 
2013-08-15 06:38:37 PM  

toraque: OnlyM3: TuteTibiImperes [TotalFark]

While it's good that there's a hard line being drawn against Egypt turning into an Islamic theocracy, I agree that a military dictatorship isn't the best option either
True, but when the choice is between the two...

It's time to take sides. I with the .mil good aim and plentiful supplies

How about we don't pick sides, and just stay the hell out of this mess altogether?


What are you, an adult, or something?
Boooooor-ing!
 
2013-08-15 06:40:48 PM  

MaudlinMutantMollusk: AirForceVet: I am not a fan at all of the Muslim Brotherhood but this isn't going to end well, IMHO.

Yeah... that

/it's evident the military does NOT want the muslims having any power


At least not THOSE Muslims.
 
2013-08-15 06:43:55 PM  

The Repeated Meme: cybrwzrd: umad: cybrwzrd: I don't pick sides when the exterminator kills a rat infestation. But I do want the exterminator to be successful.

So you are cheering for both sides then?

/me too

Naw, I just don't care what happens to the rats.

Ha ha, you're paying for this massacre through your taxes.


Already paying for a lot of innocents blood with my taxes. I don't think a bunch of theocrats are innocent.

So what is a little more death on my dime.
 
2013-08-15 06:46:22 PM  

dr_blasto: MaudlinMutantMollusk: AirForceVet: I am not a fan at all of the Muslim Brotherhood but this isn't going to end well, IMHO.

Yeah... that

/it's evident the military does NOT want the muslims having any power

At least not THOSE Muslims.


unfortunately, air force vet was severely beaten this morning at a waffle house in alabama after saying that the christ baptist first church and the first christ baptist church are the same religion, and is not reading your post to find out that some muslims may consider themselves different than other muslims.
 
2013-08-15 06:46:45 PM  
The pro--Morsi guys are Moslem fanatics and the anti-Morsi guys are military dictators.

No good dogs in this race.
 
2013-08-15 06:46:53 PM  

BalugaJoe: They should switch to all gay government.


Barney Frank currently has time on his hands.
 
2013-08-15 06:48:26 PM  

OgreMagi: Violent religious extremists don't like it when the other side gets violent back at them.

Did anyone bring popcorn?


You missed the first act.  It turns out it's the secularists who got all massacrey, not the Islamists.  Secularists  of all stripes (myself included) should be alarmed by how badly the situation has been farked up.
 
2013-08-15 06:51:23 PM  
Use of excessive force in the dispersion of the Muslim Brotherhood has been approved.
 
2013-08-15 06:52:23 PM  

AliceBToklasLives: OgreMagi: Violent religious extremists don't like it when the other side gets violent back at them.

Did anyone bring popcorn?

You missed the first act.  It turns out it's the secularists who got all massacrey, not the Islamists.  Secularists  of all stripes (myself included) should be alarmed by how badly the situation has been farked up.


Given what's happened in other countries in the region I believe the military was worried that if left unchecked the dissatisfied Morsi supporters would eventually gain further public support with the final result being open rebellion and civil war.

They decided to just silence the Morsi/Muslim Brotherhood supporters early on before they had a chance to become a large enough movement.

From a free speech and civil rights POV it's bad, but at the same time, I can completely understand why they did it, and it may result in a more stable Egypt sooner than if they hadn't.
 
2013-08-15 06:53:39 PM  
 
2013-08-15 06:55:44 PM  
The theocrats set this up as a self-fulfilling prophecy of sorts:

1. Get elected
2. Enact Laws that push the system away from secular democracy and towards Sharia, slowly
3. ???
4. Theocratic State

The difference is what step 3 is... It was either:

3a. Keep screaming "but this is democracy in action!  We were duly elected to do the people's bidding!" every time someone complains about the laws you enact

Or

3b. Get pushed out in a coup and go right back to violence with the added benefit of being able to say, "Help! Help!  We're being repressed!"

The way I see it, there's no negotiating with that mindset.
 
2013-08-15 06:58:04 PM  

TuteTibiImperes: From a free speech and civil rights POV it's bad,


From a free speech and civil rights POV when compared to the Muslim Brotherhood, it's no contest.  Sometimes you have to use violence to prevent a greater injustice.  But I'm guessing you already realize this.
 
2013-08-15 06:59:55 PM  
Interesting interview with Mubarak in prison hospital.

Mubarak aired his views on the U.S.'s role in the Middle East, stating "all what concerns America is guaranteeing Israel's security." .....

Mubarak also stated that the U.S. had attempted to assert control over Egypt's communications systems.
"Then they wanted to establish an electronic network for the armed forces. This is of course so Israel and America monitor [the armed forces]. I told the defense minister to make them forget about it. But they returned later wanting to connect all Cairo central terminals with Ramsis', and they actually agreed on that with the telecommunications minister."
Mubarak said that he was informed of the American plan by the armed forces and realized that such a plan, if carried out, would allow the U.S. to paralyze all communications in Egypt.
"This means that when work at Ramsi's central terminal stops, all communications in Egypt stop. I summoned the telecommunications minister and told him: 'So in this case, any phone call made passes through Ramsis central.' He said the Americans will do this for free.' I told him: 'Don't you dare approve that. He said that the Americans had already connected Giza's central terminal with Ramsi's. So I told him to just obstruct the plan at this point."
 
2013-08-15 07:01:07 PM  

OgreMagi: TuteTibiImperes: From a free speech and civil rights POV it's bad,

From a free speech and civil rights POV when compared to the Muslim Brotherhood, it's no contest.  Sometimes you have to use violence to prevent a greater injustice.  But I'm guessing you already realize this.


Yes from a free speech and a civil rights pov the secularists have been much worse than the Brotherhood.
 
2013-08-15 07:03:34 PM  
Perhaps we should use those methods in the US to stifle dissent if it serves a greater good.
 
2013-08-15 07:13:48 PM  
There's no way any of it could have worked out well once Morsi started shoving the country towards theocracy.
 
2013-08-15 07:15:39 PM  

Vectron: Perhaps we should use those methods in the US to stifle dissent if it serves a greater good.


Sure!  Once you have an organization that actually throws out the constitution, we'll do that.

And I'm not counting the Alex Jones tin-foil-hat conspiracy "We're already a Police State" bullshiat.  You want people in general to go shoot politicians until they stop doing x,y, and z, you damn better prove that the constitution was usurped.
 
2013-08-15 07:28:24 PM  
When Islamists are killed, everybody wins.
 
2013-08-15 07:29:12 PM  

meyerkev: Much as I hate to say this:

If being utterly farking ruthless now today is able to prevent another Middle Eastern Civil War ala Syria tomorrow, this is the best option.  That's not to say it's a good option, but it's the best bad option.


Wait, Egyptians killing hundreds (and probably soon thousands) of Egyptians prevents civil war?

Granted, this is a tough situation, but it seems to me this must stop immediately. It will only foster resentment in the best of cases, and internal terrorism in the worst of cases. They need to draw up a constitution, and Muslim Brotherhood leaders should play a part in that. There should be no compromise on the separation of church and state, but they need to be reassured that their religious freedom shall be protected. This needs to be done now, before these wounds fester.
 
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