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(ESPN)   MLB, pending owner approval, will institute a replay challenge system beginning in 2014 - 2 challenges in the first 6 innings, 1 challenge from the 7th inning on, all challenges to be reviewed by an umpire at MLB offices   (espn.go.com) divider line 212
    More: Interesting, Major League Baseball, John Schuerholz, umpire, Joe Torre, systems  
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643 clicks; posted to Sports » on 15 Aug 2013 at 2:24 PM (35 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-08-15 02:25:31 PM
Because baseball isn't slow enough.
 
2013-08-15 02:27:37 PM
Different rules during different times in the game. How very football.
 
2013-08-15 02:28:04 PM
It's a step in the right direction.

ariseatex: Because baseball isn't slow enough.


if it gets too bad, just remove the right for a batter to call time after a pitcher is set
 
2013-08-15 02:28:45 PM
Kind of light on the details of how this will exactly work. I'm guessing you can challenge anything except balls and strikes?  Will home runs continue to be at the umpire's discretion, or do you have to use a challenge on those?
 
2013-08-15 02:29:06 PM
Good

Now drop the BS change to affording the league that wins the All Star game home field advantage in the World Series. Next put the DH in the National League as well
 
2013-08-15 02:30:47 PM

ariseatex: Because baseball isn't slow enough.


It won't slow it down.  It will eliminate arguments from the managers- which can take 5+ minutes.  A replay won't take that long.  And I assume once the replay is handed down, the manager who requested it can't argue it.  (For one, the ump who reviewed the play is in a studio in NYC.)
 
2013-08-15 02:33:36 PM

ariseatex: Because baseball isn't slow enough.


Think of it this way - that's more time before the beer sales are cut off.
 
2013-08-15 02:34:17 PM
Probably have Hernandez doing the reviews
 
2013-08-15 02:35:21 PM

ariseatex: Because baseball isn't slow enough.


MLB and NFL games average about the same duration.
 
2013-08-15 02:36:03 PM

Lost Thought 00: It's a step in the right direction.

ariseatex: Because baseball isn't slow enough.

if it gets too bad, just remove the right for a batter to call time after a pitcher is set


I wish they would put this rule in place now. Should also put the pitcher on the clock so they don't make the batter stand there all day as well.
 
2013-08-15 02:36:29 PM
This is a terrible implementation, and I suspect that, once it doesn't work, Bud Selig will just throw his hands up and say "Hey, at least we tried."
 
2013-08-15 02:37:09 PM
how about just farking 1??

/maybe 2.
 
2013-08-15 02:37:36 PM

DeWayne Mann: This is a terrible implementation, and I suspect that, once it doesn't work, Bud Selig will just throw his hands up and say "Hey, at least we tried."


Curious what you don't like about it?
 
2013-08-15 02:38:41 PM
Great, baseball is officially ruined now. The sanctity of the game is forever tarnished.


Peter von Nostrand: Next remove put the DH from in the American National League as well


FTFY
 
2013-08-15 02:39:16 PM
what happens when there are multiple challenges at once?  is there one dedicated replay ump per game or is there one dude who has to review all the replays?
 
2013-08-15 02:39:52 PM

Lost Thought 00: It's a step in the right direction.


If you consider moving an inch "a step." The easiest way to do this was to just have a 5th umpire in the press box with a TV monitor who could review plays before the next batter and if he needed more time to review a play, he could request that play be held up while he does that. It would've been faster and involved less BS than this challenge system will. Instead we'll have the NFL system where you'll see challenges issued just before the next play (pitch, in this case). Instead of a common sense solution (which would've probably brought better umpires to the Majors), Bud Senile strikes again with this stupid concept.
 
2013-08-15 02:40:29 PM

babysealclubber: Great, baseball is officially ruined now. The sanctity of the game is forever tarnished.


It was already ruined before this season started, when they got rid of the fake to third, fake to first - that was ESSENTIAL AND STRATEGIC.

/I keed
 
2013-08-15 02:41:13 PM
I wonder if there will be a stipulation that a manager must challenge without first arguing the call, else you'll still end up with 3-4 minute arguments, followed by the challenge when the manager doesn't get his way.  And will teams attempt to "get the next play off" like they do in football to beat the challenge flag by either throwing the next pitch or a pickoff if the opposing manager doesn't immediately use it?
 
2013-08-15 02:43:11 PM

Peter von Nostrand: Next putdrop the DH in the Nationalfrom the American League as well

 
2013-08-15 02:44:01 PM

babysealclubber: Great, baseball is officially ruined now. The sanctity of the game is forever tarnished.


Peter von Nostrand: Next remove put the DH from in the American National League as well

FTFY


No
 
2013-08-15 02:44:52 PM

usttsdw: Should also put the pitcher on the clock so they don't make the batter stand there all day as well.


Isn't there already a 12-second rule between getting the ball back and throwing the ball? Not that it's enforced, but I thought the rule was there.
 
2013-08-15 02:45:00 PM

Lost Thought 00: if it gets too bad, just remove the right for a batter to call time after a pitcher is set


This wouldn't take a rule change. Players don't have a right to call time; by the rulebook, all they can do is ask for time, and it's up to the ump to decide whether or not to grant it. It's just that umpires always do grant it, unless the player is being a total dick.
 
2013-08-15 02:45:41 PM

Gecko Gingrich: Peter von Nostrand: Next putdrop the DH in the Nationalfrom the American League as well


Then position players need to pitch as well. I'm sorry, what was that, you said having position players pitch is a stupid idea? Exactly
 
2013-08-15 02:47:13 PM

downstairs: DeWayne Mann: This is a terrible implementation, and I suspect that, once it doesn't work, Bud Selig will just throw his hands up and say "Hey, at least we tried."

Curious what you don't like about it?


Pretty much everything.

Why is there a limit on challenges?

Why do the challenges depend on what inning it is? If a game goes to 18 innings, why aren't any more challenges added after the 7th?

Those are just the things that we KNOW that are wrong. There are plenty of other things that I strongly suspect will be in place:

Will the New York officials be allowed to review a play BEFORE the manager throws his flag?

Is there any penalty for losing a challenge (other than the obvious)?

Can a manager throw a flag at any time?

etc, etc.

The idea of replay is SUPPOSED to be "Umpiring is hard. Let's do whatever we can to help them out and get the calls right."

This is "If an ump blows a call, which they probably will because we're not helping them at all, blame the manager for not getting it overturned."
 
2013-08-15 02:48:15 PM

DeWayne Mann: This is a terrible implementation, and I suspect that, once it doesn't work, Bud Selig will just throw his hands up and say "Hey, at least we tried."


Exactly. Challenges are awful, pointless, and will only lead to the stupid delays everyone cries about. All reviews should come from above.
 
2013-08-15 02:50:02 PM

ariseatex: Because baseball isn't slow enough.


And it doesn't have enough tits and splosions.
 
2013-08-15 02:50:45 PM
Need some more details, but good, the human element can eat me.
 
2013-08-15 02:50:45 PM

Peter von Nostrand: Then position players need to pitch as well. I'm sorry, what was that, you said having position players pitch is a stupid idea? Exactly


The O's's Chris Davis pitched a scoreless two-innings a picked a the win last year against the Sawx.

/Then again, he was the DH that day.
 
2013-08-15 02:51:49 PM

Gecko Gingrich: two-innings a picked a the win


...two innings and picked up the win...

/Jaysus
 
2013-08-15 02:51:58 PM

Lost Thought 00: if it gets too bad, just remove the right for a batter to call time after a pitcher is set


Batters have the right to call time, but only the HP umpire can grant it. I'd like to see MLB start (or continue - IIRC they've been getting on the umps to stop letting them call time so damned much) directing umps to only grant time for something above the threshhold of "He's taking too much time, so I've got to re-seat my elbow pad".
 
2013-08-15 02:52:29 PM

Peter von Nostrand: Next put the DH in the National League as well


Hell, why not just prostitute the rest of the game and have separate offensive and defensive squads? We'll have  a much higher quality game then.
 
2013-08-15 02:52:54 PM

Gecko Gingrich: usttsdw: Should also put the pitcher on the clock so they don't make the batter stand there all day as well.

Isn't there already a 12-second rule between getting the ball back and throwing the ball? Not that it's enforced, but I thought the rule was there.


8.04
When the bases are unoccupied, the pitcher shall deliver the ball to the batter within 12 seconds after he receives the ball. Each time the pitcher delays the game by violating this rule, the umpire shall call "Ball." The 12-second timing starts when the pitcher is in possession of the ball and the batter is in the box, alert to the pitcher. The timing stops when the pitcher releases the ball.
The intent of this rule is to avoid unnecessary delays. The umpire shall insist that the catcher return the ball promptly to the pitcher, and that the pitcher take his position on the rubber promptly. Obvious delay by the pitcher should instantly be penalized by the umpire.
 
2013-08-15 02:53:14 PM

DeWayne Mann: downstairs: DeWayne Mann: This is a terrible implementation, and I suspect that, once it doesn't work, Bud Selig will just throw his hands up and say "Hey, at least we tried."

Curious what you don't like about it?

Pretty much everything.


This is just a step in the right direction - you think that they can just implement a system and have it be perfect?  They have to start somewhere, then tweak it to fix problems that arise.

Yes, a limit on challenges based on innings is kinda dumb, especially in the event of extra innings.  (In that regard, tennis does things pretty well, in which they add an extra challenge for a tie-break, and correct challenges do not count against the three each player gets per set.)

I would bet money the NY officials will not throw flags at all - the onus to make a challenge will fall upon the team, not the officials.  Tennis players are responsible for making challenges, and it works out pretty well.  If the team wants to hire somebody to watch the video and call the manager to make a challenge, that wouldn't be too hard.
 
2013-08-15 02:53:19 PM

DeWayne Mann: Pretty much everything.


Not even mentioning the silliness of having it reviewed in the league offices instead of on-site.

I hope there's a huge storm in NYC when it's nice somewhere else and they f*ck up a call and there's a challenge and "well, sorry, we can't reach them - power and phones are out."
 
2013-08-15 02:54:03 PM
1)  subby has it backwards:  1 challenge total during the first 6 innings, 2 total from the seventh on (I don't know if they've already discussed extra innings)

2) I'm sure the final format of this isn't set in stone.  Yes, it would be ideal if there were a dedicated fifth ump, unseen in a control booth to instantaneously view a replay and correct if needed, but it's a lot better than what Angel Hernandez and Joe West are doing right now.

If they're going to go down the challenge route here, wouldn't they need some sort of penalty for an unsuccessful challenge?  They can't really lose a timeout, and gaining an out (or losing one, depending) would be too valuable.  Sounds like they have some issues to iron out on this before they put it in stone.
 
2013-08-15 02:54:15 PM
Other way around - 1 challenge through 6, 2 from 7th on.

Personally, I think any game umped by Angel Hernandez or Joe West should have an additional 5 challenges added.
 
2013-08-15 02:54:49 PM

naughtyrev: Think of it this way - that's more time before the beer sales are cut off.


I wish to subscribe to your newsletter.

desertgeek: The easiest way to do this was to just have a 5th umpire in the press box with a TV monitor who could review plays before the next batter and if he needed more time to review a play, he could request that play be held up while he does that.


Unlike football, baseball doesn't have a timeout system. I kind of think that approach would just invite managers to come out and stall for time in the hope that the replay official would stop play.
 
2013-08-15 02:54:50 PM

edmo: Peter von Nostrand: Next put the DH in the National League as well

Hell, why not just prostitute the rest of the game and have separate offensive and defensive squads? We'll have  a much higher quality game then.


Why not just change it to Cricket, then? Or perhaps Rugby.
 
2013-08-15 02:56:03 PM

Peter von Nostrand: Next put the DH in the National League as well


Why stop there?  Why not just have a DH for every position player like football as well?  Have 9 fielders & 9 DHs.  No one wants to see another Ozzie Smith bat .262 anymore.
 
2013-08-15 02:56:26 PM

Peter von Nostrand: Then position players need to pitch as well. I'm sorry, what was that, you said having position players pitch is a stupid idea? Exactly


Also, I'm not sure what your point is. For the first 104, if you played the field you hit. Since '73, half the league still does. College pitchers hit. Little League pitchers hit.
 
2013-08-15 02:56:34 PM

SnatchMcGillicudy: it's a lot better than what Angel Hernandez and Joe West are doing right now.


Is it amusing or sad that we both picked the exact same umpires as bad examples?
 
2013-08-15 02:56:56 PM

Gecko Gingrich: Peter von Nostrand: Then position players need to pitch as well. I'm sorry, what was that, you said having position players pitch is a stupid idea? Exactly

The O's's Chris Davis pitched a scoreless two-innings a picked a the win last year against the Sawx.

/Then again, he was the DH that day.


Every player must play one inning at each position. No substitutions except in the case of injury. That could provide some grand entertainment.
 
2013-08-15 02:57:29 PM
If your genuine desire was to make sure "the best team wins", then you should be looking at the destruction of a system which, at the end of the 100-plus game season, placed the best team from each of the two major leagues into a season-ending playoff.  By its nature and by its rules, baseball is volatile.  Just like football, just like basketball, just like whatever.  That's why (money aside) you create long seasons with long, extended playoff formats: To reduce that volatility.  Instant replay is just a means to making sure the volatility is accurate, and that's pointless.
 
2013-08-15 02:57:50 PM
BTW, just hook up a TV at the place and let the home plate umpire rule on it. It's dumb to have someone not in the building rule on it - if replay is inconclusive or they decide something wrong (see NFL replays sometimes getting overturned into the wrong call, seemingly), the manager goes out and gets mad at the umpire and the umpire can even say "hell, I agree with you."

Not much satisfaction in that and it makes it seem like the game is rigged.

/AFL has the best review system (well, tennis does, but that's not going to happen) - ref goes over and looks at the TV; everyone watching the game can hear him comment as he's watching the replays, explaining what he's looking for and why he's calling what he's calling
 
2013-08-15 02:58:16 PM

Peter von Nostrand: Gecko Gingrich: Peter von Nostrand: Next putdrop the DH in the Nationalfrom the American League as well

Then position players need to pitch as well. I'm sorry, what was that, you said having position players pitch is a stupid idea? Exactly


That argument makes no sense.
 
2013-08-15 02:59:50 PM

Joe_diGriz: SnatchMcGillicudy: it's a lot better than what Angel Hernandez and Joe West are doing right now.

Is it amusing or sad that we both picked the exact same umpires as bad examples?


It's sadmusing. Also because those were the first two guys in my mind as well.
 
2013-08-15 03:00:18 PM

idesofmarch: you think that they can just implement a system and have it be perfect?


Considering that's impossible, no. But anyone with half a functioning brain can up with something better than this.

idesofmarch: They have to start somewhere, then tweak it to fix problems that arise.


So how long until they start "tweaking", and how many "tweaks" until it resembles something even close to good?

Frankly, I'd rather have 1 more season of no replay at all followed by a 5th umpire system than 2 years of this, two more years of "ok, you get challenges back if you win", 3 years of "get 1 new replay after every third extra inning" etc etc.
 
2013-08-15 03:00:47 PM

wxboy: 8.04
When the bases are unoccupied, the pitcher shall deliver the ball to the batter within 12 seconds after he receives the ball. Each time the pitcher delays the game by violating this rule, the umpire shall call "Ball." The 12-second timing starts when the pitcher is in possession of the ball and the batter is in the box, alert to the pitcher. The timing stops when the pitcher releases the ball.
The intent of this rule is to avoid unnecessary delays. The umpire shall insist that the catcher return the ball promptly to the pitcher, and that the pitcher take his position on the rubber promptly. Obvious delay by the pitcher should instantly be penalized by the umpire.


I knew I had heard that somewhere.

/Danke.
 
2013-08-15 03:01:04 PM

Gecko Gingrich: College pitchers hit. Little League pitchers hit.


And by pitchers hit, you mean they have DHs.
 
2013-08-15 03:02:30 PM
Or...just have a guy (an extra ump) watch the television broadcast, and if the play is deemed close enough (by him), then get a couple more angles, slo-mo, whatever, and then he can make the call and send it down to the field.  If the evidence isn't conclusive within a couple quick watches, play stands as it was called.

I don't understand the need for challenges or whatever when we already have TV broadcasts that can fire up a replay within seconds, without having the fat umps have to trot their fat butts off the field for four or five fat minutes to make decisions that viewers can basically make within 15 seconds of the completion of the fat play.
 
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