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(Yahoo)   Korean autoworkers should view pictures of Detroit   (in.finance.yahoo.com ) divider line 28
    More: Obvious, South Korean, Chevrolet Cruze, Volkswagen AG, Koreans, overwing exit  
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2675 clicks; posted to Business » on 15 Aug 2013 at 7:43 AM (2 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



28 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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2013-08-15 08:56:52 AM  
Because it is never management's fault when companies are badly managed?

Thanks, subby. I'll pass that along.
 
2013-08-15 09:22:12 AM  
How dare wages rise and the local currency get stronger!
 
2013-08-15 10:04:35 AM  
China and Spain are expected to be the gainers from General Motors' decision. While the car maker has already revealed that a large portion of the redesigned Opel Mokka (sold in China and U.S. under the name Buick Encore) will be manufactured in Spain, even the new model of Chevrolet Cruze is expected to be manufactured in that country.

In other news, Spain is poor enough that their wages can compare favorably to South Korean wages.
 
2013-08-15 10:17:55 AM  
Of course the pro-union farkers will never concede that union wages drove everybody out of Detriot. It was just evil investors that selfishly demanded a return on their investment.
 
2013-08-15 10:19:15 AM  

Arkanaut: China and Spain are expected to be the gainers from General Motors' decision. While the car maker has already revealed that a large portion of the redesigned Opel Mokka (sold in China and U.S. under the name Buick Encore) will be manufactured in Spain, even the new model of Chevrolet Cruze is expected to be manufactured in that country.

In other news, Spain is poor enough that their wages can compare favorably to South Korean wages.


In about one more turn of the wheel industrial wages will be so beaten down here in the USA that GM can bring production back home, and the circle of life will be complete. Yeah globalization.
 
2013-08-15 10:20:48 AM  
Oh, and this line from the article made me do a double take.

Last month, labor strikes resulted in production losses of over $90 million, forcing the company to reach a wage settlement, including yearly bonuses of 10 million Won ($9,000 million) per member.

It reads that each member got a $9,000mil bonus.  I would be willing to sweep the factory floor for a $9 billion per year bonus.
 
2013-08-15 10:23:51 AM  

Stone Meadow: Arkanaut:

In about one more turn of the wheel industrial wages will be so beaten down here in the USA that GM can bring production back home, and the circle of life will be complete. Yeah globalization.


Not sure if serious~
maybe just trolling
 
2013-08-15 10:40:11 AM  
It's good to see so many first world union members getting the shaft in favor of third worlders. Maybe eventually they'll figure out that union logic is logical only to union members.
 
2013-08-15 10:44:48 AM  

Tricky Chicken: Stone Meadow: In about one more turn of the wheel industrial wages will be so beaten down here in the USA that GM can bring production back home, and the circle of life will be complete. Yeah globalization.

Not sure if serious~
maybe just trolling


Neither. Just making a rueful, and not necessarily inaccurate, observation. Life is complicated, ya know?
 
2013-08-15 11:10:46 AM  
US: Never blame management. Give them more.
ROW: Shareholders kick out poor management.
 
2013-08-15 11:14:23 AM  

Stone Meadow: Tricky Chicken: Stone Meadow: In about one more turn of the wheel industrial wages will be so beaten down here in the USA that GM can bring production back home, and the circle of life will be complete. Yeah globalization.

Not sure if serious~
maybe just trolling

Neither. Just making a rueful, and not necessarily inaccurate, observation. Life is complicated, ya know?


Your statement implies that industrial wages in the USA are on a downward trend that will soon be on par with emerging markets.  Do you have some evidence to support this?
 
2013-08-15 12:28:47 PM  

Stone Meadow: In about one more turn of the wheel industrial wages will be so beaten down here in the USA that GM can bring production back home, and the circle of life will be complete. Yeah globalization


Yup - once the GOP repeals that abolition-of-slavery crap, white folks will be swimming in pools FULL of money (in their gated compounds, of course)!
 
2013-08-15 12:38:16 PM  

Tricky Chicken: Stone Meadow: Tricky Chicken: Stone Meadow: In about one more turn of the wheel industrial wages will be so beaten down here in the USA that GM can bring production back home, and the circle of life will be complete. Yeah globalization.

Not sure if serious~
maybe just trolling

Neither. Just making a rueful, and not necessarily inaccurate, observation. Life is complicated, ya know?

Your statement implies that industrial wages in the USA are on a downward trend that will soon be on par with emerging markets.  Do you have some evidence to support this?


Real US wages have been in a slow downward trend for 40 years...

www.aboutinflation.com

As for wage convergence, it's been happening for a long time in our first- and second-generation offshore industrial destinations. Here's one example:

www.decisionsonevidence.com
Combine that with the rapidly increasing cost of maritime transport...

www.decisionsonevidence.com

... and at some point in the not-too-distant future it becomes a slam-dunk to keep production here. And that's a very simplistic example that ignores IP issues, quality control for emerging countries and a host of other issues. As I said, life is complicated.
 
2013-08-15 01:07:35 PM  

Stone Meadow: Tricky Chicken: Stone Meadow:

... and at some point in the not-too-distant future it becomes a slam-dunk to keep production here. And that's a very simplistic example that ignores IP issues, quality control for emerging countries and a host of other issues. As I said, life is complicated.


1. You made a jump from your initial claim about industrial wages to a discussion of wages of all types for men in the US.
2. I don't know what the heck the productivity-adjusted hourly wages chart means when comparing the US to China. But I think it shows that a worker in China costs half as much as here and the trends don't seem to be converging that much.
3. Your third chart shows that marine fuel is  now three times as expensive. That would only have a slight impact on the cost of shipping.

Please show that US industrial worker wages are getting closer to those of the emerging markets.
 
2013-08-15 01:25:03 PM  

Arkanaut: China and Spain are expected to be the gainers from General Motors' decision. While the car maker has already revealed that a large portion of the redesigned Opel Mokka (sold in China and U.S. under the name Buick Encore) will be manufactured in Spain, even the new model of Chevrolet Cruze is expected to be manufactured in that country.

In other news, Spain is poor enough that their wages can compare favorably to South Korean wages.


...and Chinese ones.

However, there might also be shipping costs and/or tariff costs to factor in here; IE, it might be cheaper to build cars to be sold in Europe in Spain than to build them in South Korea, ship them to Europe, and pay the tariffs on them.  I doubt the Spanish made cars are coming to the US or Asia.
 
2013-08-15 01:26:34 PM  

Stone Meadow: Tricky Chicken: Stone Meadow: Tricky Chicken: Stone Meadow: In about one more turn of the wheel industrial wages will be so beaten down here in the USA that GM can bring production back home, and the circle of life will be complete. Yeah globalization.

Not sure if serious~
maybe just trolling

Neither. Just making a rueful, and not necessarily inaccurate, observation. Life is complicated, ya know?

Your statement implies that industrial wages in the USA are on a downward trend that will soon be on par with emerging markets.  Do you have some evidence to support this?

Real US wages have been in a slow downward trend for 40 years...


Your graph shows they have been stable, not falling.
 
2013-08-15 01:39:11 PM  

Geotpf: Arkanaut: China and Spain are expected to be the gainers from General Motors' decision. While the car maker has already revealed that a large portion of the redesigned Opel Mokka (sold in China and U.S. under the name Buick Encore) will be manufactured in Spain, even the new model of Chevrolet Cruze is expected to be manufactured in that country.

In other news, Spain is poor enough that their wages can compare favorably to South Korean wages.

...and Chinese ones.

However, there might also be shipping costs and/or tariff costs to factor in here; IE, it might be cheaper to build cars to be sold in Europe in Spain than to build them in South Korea, ship them to Europe, and pay the tariffs on them.  I doubt the Spanish made cars are coming to the US or Asia.


I know, I'm being a little glass-half-empty here. In fact this would be great news for Spain, whose economy is suffering right now.

I believe they mentioned the cars made in South Korea were mostly for export, which I presume means export to the US, Japan, or Europe (I think they have joint ventures with Chinese companies for sales to the Chinese market), so shortening their supply chain for the European market probably has some other benefits as well.
 
2013-08-15 03:33:38 PM  
That'll teach those farkers for asking for a fair wage!
 
2013-08-15 06:25:31 PM  
Detroit?

GM abandoned Flint, not Detroit.

img2u.info
 
2013-08-15 08:17:58 PM  

Tricky Chicken: Oh, and this line from the article made me do a double take.

Last month, labor strikes resulted in production losses of over $90 million, forcing the company to reach a wage settlement, including yearly bonuses of 10 million Won ($9,000 million) per member.

It reads that each member got a $9,000mil bonus.  I would be willing to sweep the factory floor for a $9 billion per year bonus.


I'm the evil subby. $9000USD is roughly equivalent to W9000KRW. This is a standard practice in Korea.
 
2013-08-15 09:31:51 PM  

Tricky Chicken: Please show that US industrial worker wages are getting closer to those of the emerging markets.


Quit strawmanning the poor guy.  He never made that claim, he said that in one more "turn of the wheel" they'd be low enough that GM could bring production back to the US. He's shown adequately enough for Fark that that is a reasonable claim to make.
 
2013-08-16 01:36:00 AM  
If Korean executives tried half the shiat American executives get away with on a daily basis, they'd be hung from the nearest light pole and set on fire.
 
2013-08-16 08:26:23 AM  

Gunther: Tricky Chicken: Please show that US industrial worker wages are getting closer to those of the emerging markets.

Quit strawmanning the poor guy.  He never made that claim, he said that in one more "turn of the wheel" they'd be low enough that GM could bring production back to the US. He's shown adequately enough for Fark that that is a reasonable claim to make.


First, look up what a strawman is. I only tried to understand what he was saying. It seemed clear to me that he implied that industrial wages were declining to a level that would make it feasable to bring jobs back to the US. Strawmanning would be if I falsely restated his argument then tore apart my mis-statement. I only wanted some evidence for his claim.

His charts were only marginally related and did not support his claim.
 
2013-08-16 08:31:04 AM  
GM makes horrible cars.
 
2013-08-16 10:17:48 AM  

Tricky Chicken: Strawmanning would be if I falsely restated his argument


Yup.
 
2013-08-16 01:33:01 PM  

Gunther: Tricky Chicken: Strawmanning would be if I falsely restated his argument

Yup.


I'm gald you've got that straight now.
 
2013-08-16 01:47:06 PM  

Tricky Chicken: I'm gald you've got that straight now.


...You know we can just scroll up and read the posts where you falsely restate his argument, right? You know how the internet works?  This isn't like a conversation where you can just insist we misheard you or something.
 
2013-08-16 03:05:33 PM  

Gunther: Tricky Chicken: I'm gald you've got that straight now.

...You know we can just scroll up and read the posts where you falsely restate his argument, right? You know how the internet works?  This isn't like a conversation where you can just insist we misheard you or something.


I see you need to look up words like false now. No need to scroll up. I'll help.

Stone Meadow: In about one more turn of the wheel industrial wages will be so beaten down here in the USA that GM can bring production back home, and the circle of life will be complete. Yeah globalization.


Tricky Chicken: Your statement implies that industrial wages in the USA are on a downward trend that will soon be on par with emerging markets.  Do you have some evidence to support this?



I know this may be hard for you but try to keep up. If you look at the four bolded portions, you may be able to see that they are fairly close to the same thing. Although I took the term 'beaten down' be mean downward trend, where it may have been meant as 'already suppressed to a lower level'. Now since I merely re-worded his statement, I was looking for evidence that industrial wages in the USA were lower now than at sometime in the past. Perhaps they are in relation to some standardizing metric.  This was what I was hoping for.

Now if I had said that his argument was 'That there is a concerted effort in the USA to devalue the work of union labor' That would be a straw man.

If you were to way "I'm going to the store"
And I were to re-phrase that "So you are going to the market"
that is not a strawman.

Or please, point out how YOU think I created a strawman and please be specific. Because as you pointed out, people can scroll at will.
 
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