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(Think Progress)   15 year old denied heart transplant in Georgia now at top of the list, nothing to do with national media attention   (thinkprogress.org ) divider line 97
    More: Followup, heart transplants, Southern Christian Leadership Conference, Children's Healthcare of Atlanta  
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6142 clicks; posted to Main » on 14 Aug 2013 at 6:12 PM (2 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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Archived thread
2013-08-14 05:30:19 PM  
10 votes:
The guy who is now second in line is thrilled about it.  Oh, wait -- now he's dead.
2013-08-14 06:14:37 PM  
9 votes:
Sorry, kids who followed the rules.
2013-08-14 06:21:47 PM  
8 votes:

h2ogate: The guy who is now second in line is thrilled about it.  Oh, wait -- now he's dead.


This.

WTF Indeed: Transplant rank by media whore is a fail-proof system.


This.

The Muthaship: Sorry, kids who followed the rules.


This.

iheartscotch: Soooo, he jumped ahead of all the other qualified recipients???


And this.
2013-08-14 06:14:56 PM  
8 votes:
I wonder what sort of tragic post-transplant followup story we'll be hearing.
2013-08-14 06:23:45 PM  
7 votes:
This story has just... ugh. EVERY transplant patient is assessed for their willingness and ability to manage their condition, to comply with all doctor's orders and to deal with the massive life changes that accompany a transplant.

There's an excellent chance that this kid was assessed as non-compliant initially... and the family understandably freaked out about it instead of working with his team to figure out how to get him prepared. The fact that he's now on the list probably means that he got scared enough for his life to listen to his doctors and to figure out what it was going to take to get on the list.

I really hate the fact that the transplant team at a major hospital following UNOS regulations got painted as racist and insensitive with no corroborating evidence.
2013-08-14 06:19:01 PM  
7 votes:

Raharu: I hope we don't see him on fark again in a few months.


I hope we do so this bullshiat doesn't happen again.
2013-08-14 06:33:37 PM  
6 votes:
Wow, this is such bullshiat. Mom thinks her precious snowflake is more deserving of a heart transplant than others. The kid is still a minor, which means that Mom is partially responsible for his lack of taking his medications and getting to appointments. Now that he is living on borrowed time, suddenly the importance of all that shiat he didn't do sinks in. Docs say no, she drops the race card, national news, and now someone who didn't care enough about his health several months ago gets bumped ahead of people who followed all of the rules.

Complete and utter bullshiat.
2013-08-14 05:37:52 PM  
6 votes:
I do wonder what the difference would have been if he had been a white kid who has a problem doing what he's told and engages routinely in self-destructive behavior.
2013-08-14 06:54:41 PM  
5 votes:

HotLonelyTeenageGirl: Anastacya: Wow, this is such bullshiat. Mom thinks her precious snowflake is more deserving of a heart transplant than others. The kid is still a minor, which means that Mom is partially responsible for his lack of taking his medications and getting to appointments. Now that he is living on borrowed time, suddenly the importance of all that shiat he didn't do sinks in. Docs say no, she drops the race card, national news, and now someone who didn't care enough about his health several months ago gets bumped ahead of people who followed all of the rules.

Complete and utter bullshiat.

15.


And? An unfortunate fact of life is that there are kids who die from severe health problems everyday. It is no less tragic, but I am sure there are other kids (and their parents) who are struggling with a debilitating and fatal disease but doing everything that they can to live longer and improve their quality of life. It makes no difference whether he is 15 or 25; neither he nor his parents cared enough (or maybe they didn't understand the severity of his situation) to follow medical instructions for his condition. Instead he didn't take his medications and missed doctor's appointments. He is old enough to understand that his actions have consequences.
2013-08-14 06:47:41 PM  
5 votes:

Genevieve Marie: Anastacya: Wow, this is such bullshiat. Mom thinks her precious snowflake is more deserving of a heart transplant than others. The kid is still a minor, which means that Mom is partially responsible for his lack of taking his medications and getting to appointments. Now that he is living on borrowed time, suddenly the importance of all that shiat he didn't do sinks in. Docs say no, she drops the race card, national news, and now someone who didn't care enough about his health several months ago gets bumped ahead of people who followed all of the rules.

Complete and utter bullshiat.

That's not what happened.


I am sorry, but I disagree. This isn't a question of his health status, this is a question of whether or not he should get on the list in the first place. The kid has a history of not taking his meds and generally not taking care of himself. There are people, I am sure, who are in as severe, if not worse than, health than this kid. He biatched to the media because suddenly he had to be accountable for his actions and did the "bbbbb-ut racism!" and then the doctors CHANGED THEIR MINDS. That has nothing to do with whether or not this kid qualifies for a transplant, this has EVERYTHING to do with the hospital not wanting to be labeled as racist or any other negative connotation. This whole move is a PR stunt, and it is reprehensible.
2013-08-14 06:17:03 PM  
5 votes:
Wasn't this the kid who won't take his heart meds and won't go to doctors appointments?
2013-08-14 06:17:00 PM  
5 votes:
Soooo, he jumped ahead of all the other qualified recipients???
2013-08-14 09:16:15 PM  
4 votes:
fark this kid, fark this kid's parents, fark his lawyer, fark the media, fark idiot "activists" on the internet who didn't read more than a headline about this story, and fark the chickenshiat hospital. I HATE this kid for the way he gamed the system.
2013-08-14 07:16:28 PM  
4 votes:
That is ridiculous! If he has a history of noncompliance and a social support system that wasn't even able to get him to comply with attending school, how in the hell are they going to be able to manage a complicated medication regimen, regular follow-ups, and all the socio/psychological issues that come from receiving a heart. It is a sad that a young person might die, but when you have so few hearts available you have got to be very picky about who gets them. It is an incredible responsibility for anyone to assume, but if he and the family already have issues, he shouldn't be on the list. I have seen several of these patients who had "borderline" social or psych evals fail miserably and end up dead because they couldn't manage the tasks they needed to in order to keep that new heart healthy. I work in invasive cardiology at a transplant center.

/off my soapbox
2013-08-14 08:49:16 PM  
3 votes:
Farking disgraceful. Stupid kid gets rewarded for breaking all the rules, will waste a heart, and everyone in the country learns a little more that it's not whether you earned something, it's whether you can get on TV when you biatch about not having it.
2013-08-14 07:07:18 PM  
3 votes:

HotLonelyTeenageGirl: Anastacya: HotLonelyTeenageGirl: Anastacya: Wow, this is such bullshiat. Mom thinks her precious snowflake is more deserving of a heart transplant than others. The kid is still a minor, which means that Mom is partially responsible for his lack of taking his medications and getting to appointments. Now that he is living on borrowed time, suddenly the importance of all that shiat he didn't do sinks in. Docs say no, she drops the race card, national news, and now someone who didn't care enough about his health several months ago gets bumped ahead of people who followed all of the rules.

Complete and utter bullshiat.

15.

And? An unfortunate fact of life is that there are kids who die from severe health problems everyday. It is no less tragic, but I am sure there are other kids (and their parents) who are struggling with a debilitating and fatal disease but doing everything that they can to live longer and improve their quality of life. It makes no difference whether he is 15 or 25; neither he nor his parents cared enough (or maybe they didn't understand the severity of his situation) to follow medical instructions for his condition. Instead he didn't take his medications and missed doctor's appointments. He is old enough to understand that his actions have consequences.

You sound like a really fun person to be around.     I understand from your profile pictures that you are a very young adult, and so it is probable that you have not yet developed any understanding of childhood development, But this _child_ is 15, and this _child_ deserves a chance to live, regardless of whatever emotional fulfillment you gain from deciding that he and his family are just "those kind of people" who just can't be trusted.   Just so you know, I am a complete stranger, and you don't know me, but the impression that you have left on me today is that you are a small and petty and frankly a pretty shiatty human being.  (Don't worry, there are others in this thread, as well).


Except there are other children, a lot of them, who did make the list because they were compliant - and there aren't enough hearts for everyone.

/something like this decision has to be cold, there is no other way until we can grow enough hearts for everyone
2013-08-14 06:40:35 PM  
3 votes:
Cue a few dozen more people on the list taking advantage of HIPA restrictions to write a sob story that medical staff cannot confirm or deny without a legal shiatstorm.
2013-08-14 06:29:40 PM  
3 votes:
As a relative of someone who is on an organ waiting list, this makes me more than a little grouchy.

Here's hoping that when this kid dies, he's signed his organ donor card.
2013-08-14 06:14:44 PM  
3 votes:
his history of "non-compliance"

Is that what we're calling being black now?
2013-08-14 11:47:12 PM  
2 votes:

Misconduc: eraser8: Misconduc @ 11:15: Nobody claimed racial discrimination, neither did I say anyone did.

Misconduc @ 10:52: They painted a sob story of a black boy blah blah racial discrimination

http://www.atlantadailyworld.com/201308148232/Original/civil-rights- gr oups-win-petition-for-heart-transplant-originally-denied-to-15-year-ol d-african-american
The Southern Christian Leadership Conference is an African-American civil rights organization. SCLC was closely associated with its first president, Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. The SCLC had a large role in the American Civil Rights Movement.

So explain that?


So, were you lying at 11:15 (when you wrote that "nobody claimed racial discrimination, neither did I say anyone did") or were you lying at 10:52 & 11:42 (when you effectively claimed the "race card" was played)?
2013-08-14 10:28:34 PM  
2 votes:

Genevieve Marie: B) that transplant programs are so flexible and loosely run that bad press can affect the UNOS matching system.


You've got to admit that it's odd that he went from not being on the list to being at the top of the list at the same time his family went into media outrage mode. Wonder what the doctors discovered that suddenly made this kid's history of non-compliance turn into a history of compliance.

Molavian: You'd better hope you're not a match for someone who's wealthy.


Or well armed.  "Well shucks, ain't it crazy that the same day Billy got to the top of the transplant list someone with a  healthy heart got shot in the back of the head by a random stranger. The Lord sure works in mysterious ways."
2013-08-14 10:22:33 PM  
2 votes:

Full Metal Retard: I could fill this thread with hundreds and hundreds of pics of people waiting on organs.


But they aren't entitled attention whores.  So it doesn't matter.  No one would care -  especially not all of the morons here demanding that the children you posted be bumped down the list for someone who doesn't meet the compliance criteria.
2013-08-14 10:10:35 PM  
2 votes:

Genevieve Marie: Anastacya: I am sorry, but I disagree. This isn't a question of his health status, this is a question of whether or not he should get on the list in the first place. The kid has a history of not taking his meds and generally not taking care of himself. There are people, I am sure, who are in as severe, if not worse than, health than this kid. He biatched to the media because suddenly he had to be accountable for his actions and did the "bbbbb-ut racism!" and then the doctors CHANGED THEIR MINDS. That has nothing to do with whether or not this kid qualifies for a transplant, this has EVERYTHING to do with the hospital not wanting to be labeled as racist or any other negative connotation. This whole move is a PR stunt, and it is reprehensible.

Yeeea, no. Not even a little. It is NOT UNCOMMON for a patient to be labeled as non-compliant, told they won't be listed, and then have their status change when they get a wake up call and realize they need to sit up and pay attention to what the doctors are saying. This kid is being evaluated by an entire transplant team at a well-respected children's hospital and their transplant program HAS to comply with UNOS requirements at all time.

The most likely scenario is that this kid got the shiat scared out of him when he realized that his non-compliance was going to kill him, and he and his family sat down with the doctors and worked out a plan for managing his care- which makes him a positive candidate for a transplant.

And he didn't "jump to the top of the list" because of media attention. He's listed as high medical priority because he has six months to live, and THAT is the biggest factor in determining placement on the list. Read the damn UNOS link I provided.

You seem, to have  decided that A) this 15 year old kid doesn't deserve a transplant because like most 15 year old kids, he had a hard time dealing with a major medical diagnosis and B) that transplant programs are so flexible and loosely run that bad press can affe ...


You can believe what you wish, as will I. This whole fiasco stinks to high hell. Not to mention it is morally repugnant to tell someone no, explain why (which matches donor criteria) and then after scaring them saying "oh, just kidding". I grew up bouncing from doctor to doctor because no one could explain the horrible pain that I lived in. This went from age 11 until my diagnosis of lupus came through at 22. I was able to comprehend at the age of 11 that there were things that I needed to do if I wanted my pain to subside so that I could function. If the KID didn't comprehend the severity of his situation, why didn't the Mom seek advice? He's 15, and she obviously neglected to ensure her son complied. If an alcoholic were to have 6 months to live because of his liver failing, and he had a history of falling off of the wagon, would you push him to the top of the list because he has such a short time? Oh wait, he wouldn't meet criteria because he didn't follow rules.

It is quite obvious that we will have different conclusions about this (I read your "damn" link as a courtesy because an argumentative discourse can be entertaining and educational). At this point, both of us are getting too pissed with the other person to defend their viewpoint without this degenerating into a pissing match. And while arguing on the internet IS fun, I have other things that I have to get finished. So, cheerio and all of that, and I wish you well.
2013-08-14 09:15:29 PM  
2 votes:
Just take the organs?

You guys do realize that many donors start off alive and doctors make a decision about whether or not they'll get better. Then if they decide they won't, they take the organs. I sure as hell don't want them making life and death decisions about me based on my donor status, whether it's an opt-in or opt-out system! religious superstition doesn't enter into it.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142405297020460300457726991090635 1 598.html

I know, they deny that this kind of thing happens, but what can you prove when all the witnesses are dead? And relaxing the policies can't possibly make this less likely.
2013-08-14 08:37:12 PM  
2 votes:

Vector R: megarian: Wasn't this the kid who won't take his heart meds and won't go to doctors appointments?

That, it was part of a hospital comment covered in a video on another site. Just that that 10 year old twit and the lung transplants, this is a waste and is ensuring the death of others all due to whine and cry from the media. I wish they hadn't caved, this is an exceptionally poor precedent.


How long till the thug stops taking his medicine or gets himself killed with alcohol and drugs? Who can we sue for giving the dipshiat a heart when he clearly didn't care 6 months ago.
2013-08-14 08:35:49 PM  
2 votes:

iheartscotch: Soooo, he jumped ahead of all the other qualified recipients???

2013-08-14 08:14:04 PM  
2 votes:

Warlordtrooper: lack of warmth: Warlordtrooper: h2ogate: The guy who is now second in line is thrilled about it.  Oh, wait -- now he's dead.

He was always second in line.  Or did you miss that lesson in kindergarten about how we have to wait in line and not skip ahead.

They don't simply put you on the list and wait.  The next person to get a heart is the most likely to die next and must be a match for the heart being donated.  So, a guy who is in better shape could get his heart before the guy who may only live for a few more days because the heart has to match the patient.

Doctors do know how to make you sicker if that is what it takes to get you up on the list a little faster.  It sounds crazy, but I know a guy who had that done to him so he could get a kidney.

Now I just wonder how long do we have to wait to get the next follow up of this kid dying from the heart being rejected because he didn't take his meds.  I don't want to see it, but I am pessimistic sometimes.

We don't know that that will ever happen.

Its one thing to not show up to appointments or skip normal medicine but I'm willing to bet that when the punishment for not taking his meds becomes death he will start to care a great deal about taking them.   Death is a powerful motivator like that.  The fact that skipping a med will literally kill him will probably make him be more responsible.



Nope.  That was the last transplant I walked out of at 2008-03-23T0230.  Kid had been in rejection more than once for not taking his meds.  He didn't make it out this time.  He figured going to Palm Springs for the weekend, drinking and partying were more important.  He was in acute rejection right in front of me spiraling the drain and I couldn't get him to cooperate.  Died before we could get him fully cannulated.

I had to write this out that night:

----
I especially don't like having a patient die when they know my name.
I've had many patients die over the years in various stages of
sedated, unconscious, brain dead, etc...  That's easier.

When they're young and talking with you.  When all night all they want
is that drink of water that you can't give them because there is so
little perfusion to their gut because their heart is dying.  You
reassure them, you admonish them.

Intubated, held down, paralyzed, cannulated, EMD, dead.

He knew my name.  He said I was cool with him.  I just spent the last
hour cleaning up the blood.  Trying to make him pretty for the
dysfunctional family he comes from.  He never had a chance really.
But he made it a year.  And he farking knew my name.
-----

Tweens and teens are awful transplant recipients.  That rebellious stage?  It involves their meds too.  That "I'm going to live forever" feeling?  They have it like anyone else.
2013-08-14 08:06:48 PM  
2 votes:
Had an aunt on a transplant list for a while, it tortured her family till she died.  She was a non compliant drinker and every kinda accepted that.  I hate that it seems like media is really getting behind certain stories and shockingly these people are jumping to the tops of lists, I felt terrible about that girl with cystic fibrosis but still am not sure she should have been catapulted to the top and given all the complications she had seems they may have known what they were talking about with her.

would be nice to see the stories and names of all the people the kid just leaped over
2013-08-14 07:40:29 PM  
2 votes:

Hobodeluxe: DarkVader: There's no valid reason that this should even be an issue.

Organ donation needs to change.  Plenty of people get killed in car wrecks in this country, there are plenty of organs available.  There shouldn't even be a waiting list.

Change the law.  Take the organs.  The dead people aren't using them any more.  At the very least, make organ donation the default, and if you don't want it to happen, you have to opt out, not opt in.  Stop asking the dead person's family what they want to do, just do it.

agreed


Cue all the religious asshats whining that their organs will get them into Heaven, so they must be embalmed and buried in complete format.
2013-08-14 07:39:30 PM  
2 votes:

HotLonelyTeenageGirl: seek3r: HotLonelyTeenageGirl: Anastacya: HotLonelyTeenageGirl: Anastacya: Wow, this is such bullshiat. Mom thinks her precious snowflake is more deserving of a heart transplant than others. The kid is still a minor, which means that Mom is partially responsible for his lack of taking his medications and getting to appointments. Now that he is living on borrowed time, suddenly the importance of all that shiat he didn't do sinks in. Docs say no, she drops the race card, national news, and now someone who didn't care enough about his health several months ago gets bumped ahead of people who followed all of the rules.

Complete and utter bullshiat.

15.

And? An unfortunate fact of life is that there are kids who die from severe health problems everyday. It is no less tragic, but I am sure there are other kids (and their parents) who are struggling with a debilitating and fatal disease but doing everything that they can to live longer and improve their quality of life. It makes no difference whether he is 15 or 25; neither he nor his parents cared enough (or maybe they didn't understand the severity of his situation) to follow medical instructions for his condition. Instead he didn't take his medications and missed doctor's appointments. He is old enough to understand that his actions have consequences.

You sound like a really fun person to be around.     I understand from your profile pictures that you are a very young adult, and so it is probable that you have not yet developed any understanding of childhood development, But this _child_ is 15, and this _child_ deserves a chance to live, regardless of whatever emotional fulfillment you gain from deciding that he and his family are just "those kind of people" who just can't be trusted.   Just so you know, I am a complete stranger, and you don't know me, but the impression that you have left on me today is that you are a small and petty and frankly a pretty shiatty human being.  (Don't worry, there are others in this thread, as well).

Except there are other children, a lot of them, who did make the list because they were compliant - and there aren't enough hearts for everyone.

/something like this decision has to be cold, there is no other way until we can grow enough hearts for everyone

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Just-world_hypothesis

You should try reading this and start thinking about your opinion again, and why you have it.


Exept I made no moral argument. This kid may well be more deserving than another, but that's a very tough, nearly impossible to quantify call to make. Instead we're left with having to make the decision of how to allocate too few organs to too many patients. It's *is* unfair, and that sucks, but how else would you propose the system work?

The compliance rules exist because they're a way of attempting to see who might take care of the heart the best. Is it always right? Of course not, but again, do you have a better way?

I repeat, there are simply not enough hearts. Your appeal that this kid get one was that he is a child, my response is that there are many children who need a new heart, so that criteria can't ve used by itself. How would *you* propose we decide which children get the needed hearts that the current system doesn't do?
2013-08-14 07:34:40 PM  
2 votes:

Dimpts: if you aren't able to pay you most likely will not get a transplant of any kind.  medicare/medicaid recipients will not get a transplant if someone with a blue cross type of insurance is waiting in line.  medications are expensive.  people want their money.


I don't believe that is true. My friend is on the list for 2 lungs and is on Medicaid. Quite frankly, most people are Medicaid-only at that stage in their illness, because of lifetime payout limits or "preexisting condition" disqualifiers. I don't believe that problem is addressed by Obamacare until 2014. My friend said the lifetime limit on his wife's insurance would have tapped out in less than one year's worth of care. I would be surprised to learn that very many people on the list have any coverage other than Medicaid.
2013-08-14 07:21:30 PM  
2 votes:

HotLonelyTeenageGirl: An... of people who followed all of the rules.

Complete and utter bullshiat.

15.

And? An unfortunate fact of life is that there are kids who die from severe health problems everyday. ...s. He is old enough to understand that his actions have consequences.

You sound like a really fun person to be around.     I understand from your profile pictures that you are a very young adult, and so it is probable that you have not yet developed any understanding of childhood development, But this _child_ is 15, and this _child_ deserves a chance to live, regardless of whatever emotional fulfillment you gain from deciding that he and his family are just "those kind of people" who just can't be trusted.   Just so you know, I am a complete stranger, and you don't know me, but the impression that you have left on me today is that you are a small and petty and frankly a pretty shiatty human being.  (Don't worry, there are others in this thread, as well).



Oh, well put.  I understand now.

Because you used an underscore to emphasize Stokes age, and started name calling... that means the Heart in Question can magically be in 2 chests at once!!!!

Here's another kid waiting for a heart:
storage.canoe.ca


And another:

3.bp.blogspot.com

or:

4.bp.blogspot.com


I could fill this thread with hundreds and hundreds of pics of people waiting on organs.

In the real world, adults have to make decisions about scarce resources.  They can make them on the basis of facts and evidence and experience of what has worked in the past - or they can make them based on hysteria about race.

By the way, the Stokes' Doctor is a black guy.  But don't let that stop you from assuming that any time a black person doesn't get what they want - it must be a racist conspiracy.
2013-08-14 07:16:05 PM  
2 votes:

Benevolent Misanthrope: I do wonder what the difference would have been if he had been a white kid who has a problem doing what he's told and engages routinely in self-destructive behavior.


None. Doctors don't like to waste their time with non-compliant patients. They're also a source of legal liability that the doctor and the hospital don't want, especially if they already know he's non-compliant.
2013-08-14 07:12:28 PM  
2 votes:

HotLonelyTeenageGirl: megarian: Boo_Guy: megarian: Wasn't this the kid who won't take his heart meds and won't go to doctors appointments?

My uncle has had his "new" kidneys for about 30 years now,  he doesnt take his anti rejection pills and hes still doing alright with them.  Shows what the doctors know!

/Probably a lot more than my uncle, but still.

This was before the consideration for his transplant. Seems like he showed no interest to take care of himself, so wouldn't that = a bad transplant candidate? Not even going to doctor visits?

On the other hand, he's a 15 year old kid, and I guess most 15 year olds are little shiats.

They are absolutely complete little shiats. 15 is a terrible age for boys. Additionally, the parts of their brains that understand risk and consequences literally is not developed yet, and will not be completely developed until around 25.

Hopefully, waking up after having a new heart installed, and feeling like (as I understand it) your chest has been run over by a truck will be a wake up call. Maybe it won't, but at least we get to live in a society that cares enough to try to help. Almost seems like something some guy whose name I can't think of would do. 2000 years ago? They trot him out in election years?


*snert*
2013-08-14 07:00:41 PM  
2 votes:
As someone who has a parent on the UNOS list (pancreas and kidney) this shiat pisses me off.  If what I've read is true, this kid has been show to be non-compliant on several occasions and yet gets another bite at the apple.  Whereas people like my mother have to wait even longer because you decided to circumvent the system.

What's the over/under on this kid getting a transplant and dying 6 months later due to not taking his meds/not going to follow up treatment?
2013-08-14 06:59:08 PM  
2 votes:

Via Infinito: Molavian: God damn, that race card is useful.

What do you mean? At first the kid was too black irresponsible and uncommitted to deserve a heart, but now he's black enough to get one?


FTFY
2013-08-14 06:53:04 PM  
2 votes:

Anastacya: Wow, this is such bullshiat. Mom thinks her precious snowflake is more deserving of a heart transplant than others. The kid is still a minor, which means that Mom is partially responsible for his lack of taking his medications and getting to appointments. Now that he is living on borrowed time, suddenly the importance of all that shiat he didn't do sinks in. Docs say no, she drops the race card, national news, and now someone who didn't care enough about his health several months ago gets bumped ahead of people who followed all of the rules.

Complete and utter bullshiat.


No kidding, kid was noncompliant with his medications even refusing to do some treatments on top of that was in trouble with the law. color me shocked to find out they get the civil rights involved to make an uproar.  Every life is worth saving, but he's already shown he is noncompliant TWICE already with his medication, they are SUPPOSE to say no end of question. Civil rights can biatch all they want he had a choice months ago to take his medications and he didn't now he needs a precious organ to survive.

Jesse Jackson can fist bump this win until the kid dies because he decided he didn't want to take his meds again, sad part is the hospital is powerless to do anything.
2013-08-14 06:45:00 PM  
2 votes:

Genevieve Marie: SordidEuphemism: As a relative of someone who is on an organ waiting list, this makes me more than a little grouchy.

Here's hoping that when this kid dies, he's signed his organ donor card.

Spend some time actually researching how the organ transplant waiting list works and how the matching is done. He's not at the top of the list because he jumped ahead of other people who need hearts more than he did- he just had his status change so that he became eligible for the list and because his need is so great, he's top of list.

UNOS matching takes into account a lot of factors. Media attention is not one of them.


I understand your point, Genevieve, but it certainly appears that his 'status change' is due to the media attention. His priority is not the immediate issue to me, simply a result of this attention. Please understand that I don't wish the kid ill, and I don't begrudge anyone getting a transplant who needs one, certainly, but the whole situation stinks. I do hope that he, and his family, have all updated their donor cards with this situation in mind.
2013-08-14 06:44:21 PM  
2 votes:

Genevieve Marie: This story has just... ugh. EVERY transplant patient is assessed for their willingness and ability to manage their condition, to comply with all doctor's orders and to deal with the massive life changes that accompany a transplant.

There's an excellent chance that this kid was assessed as non-compliant initially... and the family understandably freaked out about it instead of working with his team to figure out how to get him prepared. The fact that he's now on the list probably means that he got scared enough for his life to listen to his doctors and to figure out what it was going to take to get on the list.


No, it means the hospital are scared shiatless of the negative publicity and not only put him on the list but moved him to the front of the list.
2013-08-14 06:43:15 PM  
2 votes:
Taking heart transplant meds would probably involve taking tacrolimus (twice a day), myophenolate mofetil (twice a day), prednisone (once a day), Bactrim (once a day), Valcyte (twice a day), and probably some diuretics and blood pressure meds that are once daily.

Then, frequent visits to the transplant center, starting off weekly, for blood draws and exams -- during which time many of the above medications may be adjusted. Plus some occasional biopsies via right heart catheterization.

Getting a transplanted organ is a BFD and an enormous commitment. (Kidneys and livers are a little more forgiving if you neglect the anti-rejection drugs.) We turn down people all of the time because of noncompliance, but usually they are adults and are obvious screw-ups, e.g. documented drug use, multiple missed appointments, documented noncompliance, etc.

He is at the top of the list because of the seriousness of his condition -- once they decided to list him, he probably shot up to the top by standard criteria.

Can't really fudge the listing process too much unless you feed skewed data. Here is how they allocate hearts:
http://optn.transplant.hrsa.gov/Polic iesandBylaws2/policies/pdfs/policy_9.pdf

See section 3.7.4, he is probably status 1A if he needs to be on continuous i.v. drips to support his heart function ("inotropes").
2013-08-14 06:42:55 PM  
2 votes:

Southern_guy: Cue a few dozen more people on the list taking advantage of HIPA restrictions to write a sob story that medical staff cannot confirm or deny without a legal shiatstorm.


Why do that, again earlier this year that little girls family sued to get to the top of the list. Just do that, boom.
2013-08-14 06:32:15 PM  
2 votes:

SordidEuphemism: As a relative of someone who is on an organ waiting list, this makes me more than a little grouchy.

Here's hoping that when this kid dies, he's signed his organ donor card.


Spend some time actually researching how the organ transplant waiting list works and how the matching is done. He's not at the top of the list because he jumped ahead of other people who need hearts more than he did- he just had his status change so that he became eligible for the list and because his need is so great, he's top of list.

UNOS matching takes into account a lot of factors. Media attention is not one of them.
2013-08-14 06:21:56 PM  
2 votes:

Benevolent Misanthrope: I do wonder what the difference would have been if he had been a white kid who has a problem doing what he's told and engages routinely in self-destructive behavior.


You mean like the pretty white girl who got two pairs of adult lungs despite not qualifying due to her age back in june of this year?
2013-08-14 06:13:43 PM  
2 votes:
Transplant rank by media whore is a fail-proof system.
2013-08-15 02:12:52 AM  
1 vote:

Pichu0102: It's a little odd that the brain doesn't have some sort of "inventory" of things a body requires to function, and if one fails and a new one comes from somewhere else, it passes it through and instructs the rest of the body to make an exception for the foreign organ. Kind of wondering why the human brain doesn't take inventory of the things it has, and if one of them is required and works, and there are no alternatives, don't reject it, even if it doesn't pass the body's "verification check".


Um, maybe because transplants are really new and there was no way the body could evolve anticipating that one day, humans would figure out how to swap out the parts?
2013-08-15 12:52:41 AM  
1 vote:

Genevieve Marie: Anastacya: Wow, this is such bullshiat. Mom thinks her precious snowflake is more deserving of a heart transplant than others. The kid is still a minor, which means that Mom is partially responsible for his lack of taking his medications and getting to appointments. Now that he is living on borrowed time, suddenly the importance of all that shiat he didn't do sinks in. Docs say no, she drops the race card, national news, and now someone who didn't care enough about his health several months ago gets bumped ahead of people who followed all of the rules.

Complete and utter bullshiat.

That's not what happened.


Kid should not have been moved to the list, mom doesn't act like a mother and earlier media reports gave more detail of non compliance. And when they were on the news, with their preacher of course, they did play the race card.
2013-08-14 11:38:15 PM  
1 vote:

Genevieve Marie: Misconduc: A. Snatchfold: Where did they claim racial discrimination? When did they even mention race? Quit making up your own goddamned scenarios based on your own racist assholery. I see you pulled out the 'I have a black acquaintance' shtick, speaking of race cards.

If you bothered to even read my comment which clearly you didn't. Nobody claimed racial discrimination, neither did I say anyone did. Scenarios? There is no scenario jackass its the actual facts. The parents felt the doctors refused him a heart transplant because of previous run ins with the law and the fact the kid was non compliant more then a few times on his medication and doctor appointments. So the parents went to the Civil Rights and media for attention over it, now tell me what the hell does the civil rights have to do with this? His rights were not violated, he chose not to attend nor take medication.

You do realize that information about his medication and doctor visits has not actually been made public due to HIPAA right? So while we can surmise that he was not compliant with medical instruction at some point, we have no idea in what way or for how long or exactly what his problems were.

For all we know the kid was just depressed and not cooperating with the psychologist doing his assessment.


How come relatives of his family are saying otherwise they quoted that he has not been taking his medication. The doctors damn sure can't release any information on a patient but the family can release whatever information they want to the media. A few days ago she went on WSB Atlanta TV saying the hospital wouldn't put him on the list for "Fear" he would not be compliant. However his mother goes back on WSB Atlanta TV a day ago saying the hospital refused him because of poor grades and run ins with the law.So which is it? His mother is the one releasing the information, cite WSB TV as well as her relatives who quoted the non compliant comments.

The whole case stinks.
2013-08-14 11:24:43 PM  
1 vote:
Misconduc @ 11:15: Nobody claimed racial discrimination, neither did I say anyone did.

Misconduc @ 10:52: They painted a sob story of a black boy blah blah racial discrimination
2013-08-14 11:19:31 PM  
1 vote:

Deedeemarz: There is a special sort of Medicare for transplants. And if u need further assistance there is Medicaid. Finances are not a problem for once--that is, once you are on the list and then post-op. There is even housing available if you cannot afford a place near your transplant center.


That depends on the state.

For example:  Two Dead Since Arizona Medicaid Program Slashed Transplant Coverage

After the deaths were publicized, of course, Arizona suddenly found the money to pay for organ transplants again.
2013-08-14 11:06:24 PM  
1 vote:
Genevieve Marie:
I really hate the fact that the transplant team at a major hospital following UNOS regulations got painted as racist and insensitive with no corroborating evidence.

That's the country in which we live now, I'm afraid. Blame the people who let it (unsubstantiated cries of racism) get out of control to begin with.
2013-08-14 10:55:50 PM  
1 vote:
I don't care. I withdrew from being an organ donor years ago when some other politcal correct bullshiat popped up.

You don't fark with acts of charity. Because at the end of day the people giving have the final word, not the lawyers, activists, lobbyists, administrators etc.
2013-08-14 10:52:19 PM  
1 vote:

jso2897: A. Snatchfold: Misconduc: Thats_right_ALL_the_tea: Farking disgraceful. Stupid kid gets rewarded for breaking all the rules, will waste a heart, and everyone in the country learns a little more that it's not whether you earned something, it's whether you can get on TV when you biatch about not having itpull out the race card

Can you tell me where exactly they (the family, that is) did that? I'm serious, people are presuming shiat left and right and drawing their own misguided and ignorant opinions.

It's unbelievable. There is no reason whatsoever to believe that any of the things these idiots say happened happened, and they have pretty much written the whole scenario out of their confirmation biases. This is bad, even for Fark.
But that's the way (uh huh uh huh) I like it!


I've been following the story from day one, the parents went to the civil rights and media to grab attention because they felt the doctors would not give their son a new heart because of "Bad grades and run ins with the law" fact is he skipped out on a few doctor appointments and disregarded medication over 5 times. The parents are painting the story the Doctors refused the heart because of his school grades and law runs ins. This is what the media ran, and sure enough the ghetto rats come out the wood work claiming the hospital is wrong.

They painted a sob story of a black boy blah blah racial discrimination, fact is he blew off his medication time and time again and doctor appointments.

I have a tenant whose 65 and african, he used to drink outside with me every other day - few months ago he started bleeding from the nose like no tomarrow. Come to find out his blood pressure was through the roof. Ever since then he quit drinking and exercises, something I've never seen him do or figured he would. He even shops with my help (he's legally blind) for the right food and stuff, ever since he had the scare he took it serious from day one.

If the doctors tell you, you are going to die if you dont take the medication and you still blow off appointments, what does that tell you? He's crying the blues now the doctors said from 1 year to live to now 6 months.
2013-08-14 10:26:03 PM  
1 vote:

Deedeemarz: Genevieve Marie: Deedeemarz: Those lungs for the little CF girl certainly didn't do anyone any good for example.

Her transplant was successful... http://www.cnn.com/2013/07/04/health/pennsylvania-girl-transplant

I thought I read she had either two separate sets or that she had to take two individual lungs--my apologies if that was incorrect.

Another case of misappropriation due to outrage occurred a few years ago with a girl who needed an multi-organ transplant, very low probability of survival; got the organ set but it was a poor match after implant, so they magically managed to find her a whole 'nother set of organs and gave those to her. I think it was heart and lungs but maybe not. Then she died anyway. So, she got the wrong organs and they felt guilty so they took organs destined for another sick person and stuck them in her despite her incredibly delicate condition--and she died anyway. The fact that they found a matching set if organs so quickly is what made me finally realize that the organ donor program has very serious flaws (or rather it works likes any other business: money talks and so does bad publicity),and I didn't want my organs or my kids' organs to be involved with.


She received a first set that was in poor condition that weren't suitable for transplant for anyone else, but she was days away from dying so they did it to buy her some time. Then she stabilized enough that when a second set of healthier lungs became available, she went through another transplant surgery and is doing well.

And you should really look for evidence that "money talks and so does bad publicity" before concluding that based off of media reports of a few cases. Maybe research the process yourself, and follow the cases of a few people who aren't in the news.

Full disclosure here: A friend of mine received a heart/lung transplant several years ago as lifesaving treatment for primary pulmonary hypertension. She was very, very close to death at the time and because of her transplant, and because of her amazing team, she lived for three more years.

That may not seem like much, but it was three years where she felt healthy and got to live her life doing things instead of in a hospital bed, and she got to marry her long time boyfriend in an amazing ceremony where everyone cried like a baby, and that gift meant a hell of a lot to a lot of people.

While she was waiting I spent a ton of time researching this stuff because I was curious about it, and I've come to the conclusion that while no system is perfect, the organ matching system we have is about the best that can be done in a world where there's a chronic organ shortage. I also read a ton of personal stories of people either on the list or post-transplant, and that's where I came across a lot of the information about the process.

It's your body and do what you want with it, but before you spread misleading information that encourages other people not to register as donors, you might want to do some more homework.
2013-08-14 10:19:07 PM  
1 vote:

Genevieve Marie: Deedeemarz: Those lungs for the little CF girl certainly didn't do anyone any good for example.

Her transplant was successful... http://www.cnn.com/2013/07/04/health/pennsylvania-girl-transplant


I thought I read she had either two separate sets or that she had to take two individual lungs--my apologies if that was incorrect.

Another case of misappropriation due to outrage occurred a few years ago with a girl who needed an multi-organ transplant, very low probability of survival; got the organ set but it was a poor match after implant, so they magically managed to find her a whole 'nother set of organs and gave those to her. I think it was heart and lungs but maybe not. Then she died anyway. So, she got the wrong organs and they felt guilty so they took organs destined for another sick person and stuck them in her despite her incredibly delicate condition--and she died anyway. The fact that they found a matching set if organs so quickly is what made me finally realize that the organ donor program has very serious flaws (or rather it works likes any other business: money talks and so does bad publicity),and I didn't want my organs or my kids' organs to be involved with.
2013-08-14 09:57:03 PM  
1 vote:

The My Little Pony Killer: Deedeemarz: And cases like this are why I am not an organ donor anymore.

You are a huge part of the problem.


No, I am not a huge part of the problem. My dead body will benefit the living in a different way is all. One that is less likely to be subject to the whims and vagaries of our whiny ass media-dependent catchphrase addicted public. Those lungs for the little CF girl certainly didn't do anyone any good for example. The way my corpse will be used wont save anybody that day, but it will help save someone down the road; and it certainly won't lead more people to die than would have anyway. Misappropriation of organs does: it kills other possible matches, and the candidate who shouldn't have gotten the organ will die too. My way is a different way to help is all.
2013-08-14 09:54:09 PM  
1 vote:

Vector R: jso2897: Vector R: a, it's always about imaginary sky fairies, not legitimate fears that if they fall ill, their organs might be harvested (or nearly so) before they're even dead despite signs otherwise:

8/10 - the link to the NY Daily News was a nice touch.

As much fun as trolling can be, no troll. Here's a local article:
http://www.syracuse.com/news/index.ssf/2013/07/st_joes_fined_over_de ad _patien.html

I will not be an organ donor, not just because I have questions on the "other side", but because I want to make sure something like that doesn't happen to me. If you're in the hospital for whatever reason and happen to match some prominent member of the community waiting for an organ, you're in just the right place for them to find a way to kill you off to get it with no one the wiser.


Um, that's not how organ matching works. Like, at all.
2013-08-14 09:18:16 PM  
1 vote:

brainiac-dumdum: Tumunga: brainiac-dumdum: DarkVader: There's no valid reason that this should even be an issue.

Organ donation needs to change.  Plenty of people get killed in car wrecks in this country, there are plenty of organs available.  There shouldn't even be a waiting list.

Change the law.  Take the organs.  The dead people aren't using them any more.  At the very least, make organ donation the default, and if you don't want it to happen, you have to opt out, not opt in.  Stop asking the dead person's family what they want to do, just do it.

I agree

No, pay the dead person's 1/4 of what the hospital is charging for the operation/care instead of stealing what doesn't belong to you, or spending money to guilt people into checking a box when they renew their license.

Can a dead person claim ownership of that which s/he no longer needs?


No, but I'm betting the family (spouse, children, parents) could use the compensation. Treat the organs as a commodity. Every farking one else in that donor chain of custody gets compensated for their services, but the person making the operation possible gets nothing. That's not right.
2013-08-14 09:17:32 PM  
1 vote:

Misconduc: Thats_right_ALL_the_tea: Farking disgraceful. Stupid kid gets rewarded for breaking all the rules, will waste a heart, and everyone in the country learns a little more that it's not whether you earned something, it's whether you can get on TV when you biatch about not having itpull out the race card


Can you tell me where exactly they (the family, that is) did that? I'm serious, people are presuming shiat left and right and drawing their own misguided and ignorant opinions.
2013-08-14 09:16:08 PM  
1 vote:
Good job you just killed two with one stone.
2013-08-14 09:14:53 PM  
1 vote:

jso2897: atomic-age: Hobodeluxe: DarkVader: There's no valid reason that this should even be an issue.

Organ donation needs to change.  Plenty of people get killed in car wrecks in this country, there are plenty of organs available.  There shouldn't even be a waiting list.

Change the law.  Take the organs.  The dead people aren't using them any more.  At the very least, make organ donation the default, and if you don't want it to happen, you have to opt out, not opt in.  Stop asking the dead person's family what they want to do, just do it.

agreed

Cue all the religious asshats whining that their organs will get them into Heaven, so they must be embalmed and buried in complete format.

And the propertarians "it's MY body! I have no use for it, but it's MINE, and you can't have it!!!"
And slimiest of all, the lolbertarian concern trolls "Well, of course I'm donating my organs, 'cause I'm too smart to believe in supperstition, but I would NEVER (takes off hat, puts hand on breast, stares meaningfully into distance) take away another person's sacred RIGHT to their own rotting corpse that they need to get into their imaginary alpha ape's eternal night club!"


Yea, it's always about imaginary sky fairies, not legitimate fears that if they fall ill, their organs might be harvested (or nearly so) before they're even dead despite signs otherwise:

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/woman-wakes-organs-harveste d- article-1.1393821
2013-08-14 08:54:10 PM  
1 vote:

OnlyM3: Karma Chameleon
2013-08-14 06:14:44 PM


his history of "non-compliance"

Is that what we're calling being black now?

I was assured in yesterday's thread the race card wasn't being played.

Guess fark medical experts are as wrong headed as fark's political ones.


Not by the kid's family anyway. They can't help it if some other people (mostly, if not all white) are pulling it on their behalf.
2013-08-14 08:45:03 PM  
1 vote:

seek3r: HotLonelyTeenageGirl: Anastacya: HotLonelyTeenageGirl: Anastacya: Wow, this is such bullshiat. Mom thinks her precious snowflake is more deserving of a heart transplant than others. The kid is still a minor, which means that Mom is partially responsible for his lack of taking his medications and getting to appointments. Now that he is living on borrowed time, suddenly the importance of all that shiat he didn't do sinks in. Docs say no, she drops the race card, national news, and now someone who didn't care enough about his health several months ago gets bumped ahead of people who followed all of the rules.

Complete and utter bullshiat.

15.

And? An unfortunate fact of life is that there are kids who die from severe health problems everyday. It is no less tragic, but I am sure there are other kids (and their parents) who are struggling with a debilitating and fatal disease but doing everything that they can to live longer and improve their quality of life. It makes no difference whether he is 15 or 25; neither he nor his parents cared enough (or maybe they didn't understand the severity of his situation) to follow medical instructions for his condition. Instead he didn't take his medications and missed doctor's appointments. He is old enough to understand that his actions have consequences.

You sound like a really fun person to be around.     I understand from your profile pictures that you are a very young adult, and so it is probable that you have not yet developed any understanding of childhood development, But this _child_ is 15, and this _child_ deserves a chance to live, regardless of whatever emotional fulfillment you gain from deciding that he and his family are just "those kind of people" who just can't be trusted.   Just so you know, I am a complete stranger, and you don't know me, but the impression that you have left on me today is that you are a small and petty and frankly a pretty shiatty human being.  (Don't worry, there are others in this thread, a ...


It's amazing how all the people who have had their heartstrings tugged by this kid conveniently forget all the rest of the kids that this one has very likely sentenced to death.

/we're not the selfish assholes here
2013-08-14 08:41:48 PM  
1 vote:

HotLonelyTeenageGirl: 15


I'm sure there are plenty of children YOUNGER than 15 who know to take their meds and show up to appointments. You really don't have to keep spamming how stupid you are.
2013-08-14 08:35:41 PM  
1 vote:

SenorBenedict: Benevolent Misanthrope: I do wonder what the difference would have been if he had been a white kid who has a problem doing what he's told and engages routinely in self-destructive behavior.

You mean like the pretty white girl who got two pairs of adult lungs despite not qualifying due to her age back in june of this year?


Any stories on the people behind her yet? When one of those people passes away, the lawsuits will be magical.
2013-08-14 08:26:37 PM  
1 vote:

Curious: Genevieve Marie: he just had his status change so that he became eligible for the list and because his need is so great, he's top of list.

UNOS matching takes into account a lot of factors. Media attention is not one of them.

FIFY you can believe what you want but i choose to believe the media attention gave him a huge hand up. if the initial stories were correct this kid is not a good candidate and some sudden change of heart is bullshiat.



The system can and completely is gamed in different ways.  Repeatedly.  Money is usually the biggest tool.  Witnessed it first hand over and over.
2013-08-14 08:21:57 PM  
1 vote:

Tumunga: brainiac-dumdum: DarkVader: There's no valid reason that this should even be an issue.

Organ donation needs to change.  Plenty of people get killed in car wrecks in this country, there are plenty of organs available.  There shouldn't even be a waiting list.

Change the law.  Take the organs.  The dead people aren't using them any more.  At the very least, make organ donation the default, and if you don't want it to happen, you have to opt out, not opt in.  Stop asking the dead person's family what they want to do, just do it.

I agree

No, pay the dead person's 1/4 of what the hospital is charging for the operation/care instead of stealing what doesn't belong to you, or spending money to guilt people into checking a box when they renew their license.


Can a dead person claim ownership of that which s/he no longer needs?
2013-08-14 08:14:11 PM  
1 vote:

jso2897: DarkVader: There's no valid reason that this should even be an issue.

Organ donation needs to change.  Plenty of people get killed in car wrecks in this country, there are plenty of organs available.  There shouldn't even be a waiting list.

Change the law.  Take the organs.  The dead people aren't using them any more.  At the very least, make organ donation the default, and if you don't want it to happen, you have to opt out, not opt in.  Stop asking the dead person's family what they want to do, just do it.

It's an unpopular opinion, but you are right. Human life trumps superstition, in my book.
But politically, it will be impossible for another century, in America. Too much religion.


Yep. The Religious will get their panties in a wad.
2013-08-14 08:06:29 PM  
1 vote:

megarian: Wasn't this the kid who won't take his heart meds and won't go to doctors appointments?


That, it was part of a hospital comment covered in a video on another site. Just that that 10 year old twit and the lung transplants, this is a waste and is ensuring the death of others all due to whine and cry from the media. I wish they hadn't caved, this is an exceptionally poor precedent.
2013-08-14 08:03:58 PM  
1 vote:

atomic-age: Dimpts: if you aren't able to pay you most likely will not get a transplant of any kind.  medicare/medicaid recipients will not get a transplant if someone with a blue cross type of insurance is waiting in line.  medications are expensive.  people want their money.

I don't believe that is true. My friend is on the list for 2 lungs and is on Medicaid. Quite frankly, most people are Medicaid-only at that stage in their illness, because of lifetime payout limits or "preexisting condition" disqualifiers. I don't believe that problem is addressed by Obamacare until 2014. My friend said the lifetime limit on his wife's insurance would have tapped out in less than one year's worth of care. I would be surprised to learn that very many people on the list have any coverage other than Medicaid.


This.
I got the long version story of a guy who needed a kidney transplant, and I will tell you most transplants involve Medicaid.  Kidney guy said as soon as the doctors told him he needed the transplant they handed him the forms for Medicaid.  Before he could even get the transplant ball rolling, he had to quit his job and clean out his savings in order to get approved for Medicaid.  Basically no one's insurance is good enough for a transplant.  Part of why it is so expensive is if the donor is living, the transplant cost includes the donor patient as well.  That's months of testing before they perform surgery on both and then recuperation of both patients.

The amazing part for the kidney guy was he got his kidney from a good friend from church who turned out to be a 99% perfect match.  When I heard the story the docs had taken him off all anti-rejection meds because his body couldn't tell it wasn't his.
2013-08-14 08:02:35 PM  
1 vote:

skinink: When he's shot though this replacement heart, who will be to blame? Kid you give people waiting for a transplant a bad name.


jeffgoins.myadventures.org

/they were doing duck faces in the 80s?
2013-08-14 07:56:57 PM  
1 vote:

Warlordtrooper: lack of warmth: Warlordtrooper: h2ogate: The guy who is now second in line is thrilled about it.  Oh, wait -- now he's dead.

He was always second in line.  Or did you miss that lesson in kindergarten about how we have to wait in line and not skip ahead.

They don't simply put you on the list and wait.  The next person to get a heart is the most likely to die next and must be a match for the heart being donated.  So, a guy who is in better shape could get his heart before the guy who may only live for a few more days because the heart has to match the patient.

Doctors do know how to make you sicker if that is what it takes to get you up on the list a little faster.  It sounds crazy, but I know a guy who had that done to him so he could get a kidney.

Now I just wonder how long do we have to wait to get the next follow up of this kid dying from the heart being rejected because he didn't take his meds.  I don't want to see it, but I am pessimistic sometimes.

We don't know that that will ever happen.

Its one thing to not show up to appointments or skip normal medicine but I'm willing to bet that when the punishment for not taking his meds becomes death he will start to care a great deal about taking them.   Death is a powerful motivator like that.  The fact that skipping a med will literally kill him will probably make him be more responsible.


Don't be so sure. Seen it many times. It is usually not willful noncompliance, but rather a mismatch in what the educator (nurse doctor etc) thought the patient understood and what the patient actually understood and retained: "if you skip this medicine, you will die" sounds crystal clear to us, but to many patients it actually sounds like "I should try to take this most of the time because i might get sick if I skip more than half of them each month" & "keep this appointment because we have to do tests to make sure you are healing and your new heart is working or you will end up very sick in the hospital" sounds like "I should probably come to some of these appointments this year even though I hate having to be on the bus and they won't let me eat cuz they take blood and, man maybe I will just go to this first one and that should be good enough, I mean seriously I hate getting blood drawn."

And then they die and very tragic usually preventable pretty painful and exorbitantly expensive death. Tah dah.
2013-08-14 07:56:03 PM  
1 vote:

DarkVader: There's no valid reason that this should even be an issue.

Organ donation needs to change.  Plenty of people get killed in car wrecks in this country, there are plenty of organs available.  There shouldn't even be a waiting list.

Change the law.  Take the organs.  The dead people aren't using them any more.  At the very least, make organ donation the default, and if you don't want it to happen, you have to opt out, not opt in.  Stop asking the dead person's family what they want to do, just do it.


You'd better hope you're not a match for someone who's wealthy.
2013-08-14 07:53:30 PM  
1 vote:

OscarTamerz: If Obama had a kid with a fatal heart condition who was a punk and a dirtbag and didn't get shot by Zimmerman he'd look like this one.

[thinkprogress.org image 300x226]


Pfft. Boy, this isn't 4chan. Get outta here with that weak shiat.
2013-08-14 07:53:23 PM  
1 vote:

DarkVader: There's no valid reason that this should even be an issue.

Organ donation needs to change.  Plenty of people get killed in car wrecks in this country, there are plenty of organs available.  There shouldn't even be a waiting list.

Change the law.  Take the organs.  The dead people aren't using them any more.  At the very least, make organ donation the default, and if you don't want it to happen, you have to opt out, not opt in.  Stop asking the dead person's family what they want to do, just do it.


I agree
2013-08-14 07:45:44 PM  
1 vote:

Warlordtrooper: h2ogate: The guy who is now second in line is thrilled about it.  Oh, wait -- now he's dead.

He was always second in line.  Or did you miss that lesson in kindergarten about how we have to wait in line and not skip ahead.


They don't simply put you on the list and wait.  The next person to get a heart is the most likely to die next and must be a match for the heart being donated.  So, a guy who is in better shape could get his heart before the guy who may only live for a few more days because the heart has to match the patient.

Doctors do know how to make you sicker if that is what it takes to get you up on the list a little faster.  It sounds crazy, but I know a guy who had that done to him so he could get a kidney.

Now I just wonder how long do we have to wait to get the next follow up of this kid dying from the heart being rejected because he didn't take his meds.  I don't want to see it, but I am pessimistic sometimes.
2013-08-14 07:44:30 PM  
1 vote:

atomic-age: Cue all the religious asshats whining that their organs will get them into Heaven, so they must be embalmed and buried in complete format.


It is pretty silly that people think they should have dominion over their own bodies in the first place.  I say we don't wait for death.  Make non-essential organs available for inter vivos transfer in cases of demonstrable need.  Do these people not realize they are part of the collective?  They didn't build that!  Hand it over!
2013-08-14 07:40:08 PM  
1 vote:

DarkVader: There's no valid reason that this should even be an issue.

Organ donation needs to change.  Plenty of people get killed in car wrecks in this country, there are plenty of organs available.  There shouldn't even be a waiting list.

Change the law.  Take the organs.  The dead people aren't using them any more.  At the very least, make organ donation the default, and if you don't want it to happen, you have to opt out, not opt in.  Stop asking the dead person's family what they want to do, just do it.


It's an unpopular opinion, but you are right. Human life trumps superstition, in my book.
But politically, it will be impossible for another century, in America. Too much religion.
2013-08-14 07:38:12 PM  
1 vote:

jso2897: I just read the article, and a couple of others. There is no real information on this - the official reasons for the denial and subsequent reversal are confidential, and have not been released.- all we have are the speculations of Anthony's emotionally distraught and marginally educated mom, and those of a bunch of crappy interweb "journalists"
Man, Farkers sure can frorm some firm conclusions based on diddley jack shiat.
Another bullshiat tempest in a teacup.


I'd just like to add in no way shape or form did the family say (at least as far as I read) that he was denied because of his race - they cited his problems with the law and poor school performance as reasons they feel the hospital denied him. It pisses me off that everyone else seems to be assuming they pulled the race card.
2013-08-14 07:36:06 PM  
1 vote:

Hobodeluxe: Karma Chameleon: his history of "non-compliance"

Is that what we're calling being black now?

must be because they never said exactly what his "non compliance" violations were.
matter of fact he just found out he needed a heart from what I saw on our local news.


That's because no one in any official capacity has said why he was initially denied, or why that was changed. This is a pure media event. The sucky blog articles, this long, passionate, bullshiat-laden thread - all about a "story" that consists of nothing but speculation.
2013-08-14 07:36:03 PM  
1 vote:

Full Metal Retard: By the way, the Stokes' Doctor is a black guy.


pretty sure he isn't the one making the decision. and those infants have to have infant hearts. they can't have a full sized adult heart. so their availability is limited.
but go ahead and feel discriminated against.
2013-08-14 07:24:03 PM  
1 vote:
Like Mickey Mantle getting a new liver.  If you have the name you're in the game.
2013-08-14 07:22:41 PM  
1 vote:
I just read the article, and a couple of others. There is no real information on this - the official reasons for the denial and subsequent reversal are confidential, and have not been released.- all we have are the speculations of Anthony's emotionally distraught and marginally educated mom, and those of a bunch of crappy interweb "journalists"
Man, Farkers sure can frorm some firm conclusions based on diddley jack shiat.
Another bullshiat tempest in a teacup.
2013-08-14 07:21:11 PM  
1 vote:

Quantum Apostrophe: Computers got better and a scientist was wrong once. Therefore, anything is possible.


Sort of like "Medicine got better and a scientist was wrong once. therefore, immortality", am I right?
2013-08-14 07:09:54 PM  
1 vote:
Quantum Apostrophe
In the meantime, I signed my organ donor card, you??
I had, but this bullshiat has made me decide to reverse that decision.
2013-08-14 07:07:43 PM  
1 vote:
Karma Chameleon
2013-08-14 06:14:44 PM


his history of "non-compliance"

Is that what we're calling being black now?
I was assured in yesterday's thread the race card wasn't being played.

Guess fark medical experts are as wrong headed as fark's political ones.
2013-08-14 07:05:44 PM  
1 vote:

megarian: Boo_Guy: megarian: Wasn't this the kid who won't take his heart meds and won't go to doctors appointments?

My uncle has had his "new" kidneys for about 30 years now,  he doesnt take his anti rejection pills and hes still doing alright with them.  Shows what the doctors know!

/Probably a lot more than my uncle, but still.

This was before the consideration for his transplant. Seems like he showed no interest to take care of himself, so wouldn't that = a bad transplant candidate? Not even going to doctor visits?

On the other hand, he's a 15 year old kid, and I guess most 15 year olds are little shiats.


They are absolutely complete little shiats. 15 is a terrible age for boys. Additionally, the parts of their brains that understand risk and consequences literally is not developed yet, and will not be completely developed until around 25.

Hopefully, waking up after having a new heart installed, and feeling like (as I understand it) your chest has been run over by a truck will be a wake up call. Maybe it won't, but at least we get to live in a society that cares enough to try to help. Almost seems like something some guy whose name I can't think of would do. 2000 years ago? They trot him out in election years?
2013-08-14 07:04:56 PM  
1 vote:

HotLonelyTeenageGirl: Anastacya: HotLonelyTeenageGirl: Anastacya: Wow, this is such bullshiat. Mom thinks her precious snowflake is more deserving of a heart transplant than others. The kid is still a minor, which means that Mom is partially responsible for his lack of taking his medications and getting to appointments. Now that he is living on borrowed time, suddenly the importance of all that shiat he didn't do sinks in. Docs say no, she drops the race card, national news, and now someone who didn't care enough about his health several months ago gets bumped ahead of people who followed all of the rules.

Complete and utter bullshiat.

15.

And? An unfortunate fact of life is that there are kids who die from severe health problems everyday. It is no less tragic, but I am sure there are other kids (and their parents) who are struggling with a debilitating and fatal disease but doing everything that they can to live longer and improve their quality of life. It makes no difference whether he is 15 or 25; neither he nor his parents cared enough (or maybe they didn't understand the severity of his situation) to follow medical instructions for his condition. Instead he didn't take his medications and missed doctor's appointments. He is old enough to understand that his actions have consequences.

You sound like a really fun person to be around.     I understand from your profile pictures that you are a very young adult, and so it is probable that you have not yet developed any understanding of childhood development, But this _child_ is 15, and this _child_ deserves a chance to live, regardless of whatever emotional fulfillment you gain from deciding that he and his family are just "those kind of people" who just can't be trusted.   Just so you know, I am a complete stranger, and you don't know me, but the impression that you have left on me today is that you are a small and petty and frankly a pretty shiatty human being.  (Don't worry, there are others in this thread, as well).


I am a shiatty human being for following the criteria that the transplant association made? For reiterating that he didn't qualify at first and sometimes life sucks? Wow, I will be sure to call up that hospital and tell them that they are all assholes for developing guidelines that may, sadly, result in the death of a child.

Oh, and I'll be 32 in a week, so I'm not that young. I guess I have that going for me.
2013-08-14 07:00:20 PM  
1 vote:

Anastacya: HotLonelyTeenageGirl: Anastacya: Wow, this is such bullshiat. Mom thinks her precious snowflake is more deserving of a heart transplant than others. The kid is still a minor, which means that Mom is partially responsible for his lack of taking his medications and getting to appointments. Now that he is living on borrowed time, suddenly the importance of all that shiat he didn't do sinks in. Docs say no, she drops the race card, national news, and now someone who didn't care enough about his health several months ago gets bumped ahead of people who followed all of the rules.

Complete and utter bullshiat.

15.

And? An unfortunate fact of life is that there are kids who die from severe health problems everyday. It is no less tragic, but I am sure there are other kids (and their parents) who are struggling with a debilitating and fatal disease but doing everything that they can to live longer and improve their quality of life. It makes no difference whether he is 15 or 25; neither he nor his parents cared enough (or maybe they didn't understand the severity of his situation) to follow medical instructions for his condition. Instead he didn't take his medications and missed doctor's appointments. He is old enough to understand that his actions have consequences.


You sound like a really fun person to be around.     I understand from your profile pictures that you are a very young adult, and so it is probable that you have not yet developed any understanding of childhood development, But this _child_ is 15, and this _child_ deserves a chance to live, regardless of whatever emotional fulfillment you gain from deciding that he and his family are just "those kind of people" who just can't be trusted.   Just so you know, I am a complete stranger, and you don't know me, but the impression that you have left on me today is that you are a small and petty and frankly a pretty shiatty human being.  (Don't worry, there are others in this thread, as well).
2013-08-14 06:58:19 PM  
1 vote:

Via Infinito: Molavian: God damn, that race card is useful.

What do you mean? At first the kid was too black to deserve a heart, but now he's black enough to get one?


"Dey racist!"

"We're not racist, put him back on the list."

*some other kid dies*

Fin.
2013-08-14 06:51:15 PM  
1 vote:
If the kid takes his meds and follows the rules, then fine. I doubt he will. The person who will take their meds and follow the rules just got screwed.
2013-08-14 06:46:33 PM  
1 vote:

SordidEuphemism: As a relative of someone who is on an organ waiting list, this makes me more than a little grouchy.

Here's hoping that when this kid dies, he's signed his organ donor card.


I have a friend who needs two lungs. Repeatedly he's been called for transplant and the organs have been no good. He's running out of time.

I have very mixed feelings. On the one hand, my friend is over 40 with cystic fibrosis. He's already outlived everyone's expectations. But I know he will follow medical advice, rather than fail to take his meds or abuse transplanted lungs should he get them.
2013-08-14 06:24:46 PM  
1 vote:
When he's shot though this replacement heart, who will be to blame? Kid you give people waiting for a transplant a bad name.
2013-08-14 06:24:34 PM  
1 vote:

Quantum Apostrophe: I thought we had a magical technology of some kind to make organs now?


What fantasy land do you live in?
2013-08-14 06:23:54 PM  
1 vote:

Quantum Apostrophe: I thought we had a magical technology of some kind to make organs now?


Whatever happened to using pig organs?  Theyre plentiful and afterwards you can cook up some bacon and use it for anti-rejection medication.
2013-08-14 06:22:37 PM  
1 vote:

megarian: Wasn't this the kid who won't take his heart meds and won't go to doctors appointments?


Yup.
2013-08-14 06:18:43 PM  
1 vote:
Lawsuit time for the new number two on the list!

Then he/she can buy a new heart over in India,  thats what they have all those extra kids for anyway,  spare parts!


/heh,  #2
2013-08-14 06:13:24 PM  
1 vote:
riiiiiiiight
 
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