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(Yahoo)   Indian submarine catches fire and sinks. Should have closed the screen doors   (news.yahoo.com) divider line 91
    More: Strange, Indians, nuclear submarines, NDTV  
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4535 clicks; posted to Main » on 14 Aug 2013 at 7:40 AM (47 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



91 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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2013-08-14 07:36:48 AM
It's a Kilo class boat.

Sounds like a battery fire (relatively common hazard on diesel/electric boats), followed by some of the torpedoes cooking off.  Either that, or torpedo fuel ignited, which subsequently cooked off the warheards.

Also, there is a remote possibility that a raksasha was attacking zombie Darren McGavin, and he fired a crossbow bolt shorted out the high voltage bus on the main electrical switch panel, which then sparked and ignited the pure ethanol the chief of the boat had stashed back behind the panel for "medicinal purposes".  But that's a remote possibility.
 
2013-08-14 07:41:32 AM
It's probably for the best. I hear they were carrying a large load of army blankets.
 
2013-08-14 07:44:41 AM
There once was a sub in Mumbai
that came from the Soviets by and by.
But everyone gasped
when there was a sudden blast.
But it's a soviet sub, so they should just say "bye bye"
 
2013-08-14 07:45:43 AM
Well, somebody didn't do the needful.
 
2013-08-14 07:47:12 AM
Warmongering Ghandi!
 
2013-08-14 07:48:35 AM
Sounds like someone forgot to vent the boat, and a hydrogen buildup from a leaking batteries ignited. Once that happens all sorts of things get ignited and burn, explode, whatever, and anyone that was on the boat died almost immediately.
 
2013-08-14 07:49:11 AM
Sound like heap big trouble under the great waters, Kemosabe. No more go on warpath.
 
2013-08-14 07:49:55 AM
Heh...anyone seen that welder who set fire to one of our subs to get a day off?

Maybe he found a new job...
 
2013-08-14 07:50:19 AM
It was docked and they couldn't keep it from sinking? Don't they have ropes in India?
 
2013-08-14 07:50:23 AM

dittybopper: It's a Kilo class boat.

Sounds like a battery fire (relatively common hazard on diesel/electric boats), followed by some of the torpedoes cooking off.  Either that, or torpedo fuel ignited, which subsequently cooked off the warheards.

Also, there is a remote possibility that a raksasha was attacking zombie Darren McGavin, and he fired a crossbow bolt shorted out the high voltage bus on the main electrical switch panel, which then sparked and ignited the pure ethanol the chief of the boat had stashed back behind the panel for "medicinal purposes".  But that's a remote possibility.


You have an active imaginatio.  I don't even now what a raksasha is who who Darren McGavin is either, but I was entertained.
 
2013-08-14 07:54:38 AM
Swamp gas reflecting off a weather balloon.
Nothing to see here.
 
2013-08-14 07:54:49 AM
No, no. The Polish ones have screen doors, the Indian ones have those beads that hang down.
 
2013-08-14 07:59:40 AM
Last year, India acquired a Russian Nerpa nuclear submarine for its navy on a 10-year lease from Russia at a total cost of nearly $1 billion.

On Saturday, India activated the atomic reactor on its first indigenously designed and built nuclear submarine, which the navy could deploy in the next two years.


Mmmhmmm... Sounds like they only needed a 1-year lease to copy all that Russian tech over.
 
2013-08-14 08:00:56 AM
The 18 who died where trapped after the explosion and fire. Sad day to be a submariner, no matter what country.
 
2013-08-14 08:00:59 AM

 We all live in a burned-out submarine
a burned-out submarine
a burned-out submarine 

 
2013-08-14 08:02:06 AM

LoneVVolf: Last year, India acquired a Russian Nerpa nuclear submarine for its navy on a 10-year lease from Russia at a total cost of nearly $1 billion.

On Saturday, India activated the atomic reactor on its first indigenously designed and built nuclear submarine, which the navy could deploy in the next two years.

Mmmhmmm... Sounds like they only needed a 1-year lease to copy all that Russian tech over.


The Russian subs were all diesels. Nuclear is a whole different ballgame.
 
2013-08-14 08:02:29 AM
It's a submarine, it's designed to sink.
 
2013-08-14 08:03:08 AM

Rabid Badger Beaver Weasel: LoneVVolf: Last year, India acquired a Russian Nerpa nuclear submarine for its navy on a 10-year lease from Russia at a total cost of nearly $1 billion.

On Saturday, India activated the atomic reactor on its first indigenously designed and built nuclear submarine, which the navy could deploy in the next two years.

Mmmhmmm... Sounds like they only needed a 1-year lease to copy all that Russian tech over.

The Russian subs were all diesels. Nuclear is a whole different ballgame.


Oh, frack me. I didn't read your post all the way. Sorry.
 
2013-08-14 08:03:21 AM
Damn, I couldn't find an image of both Nemo and the Nautilus:

static.comicvine.com
 
2013-08-14 08:05:16 AM
It is an actual submarine..who knew

www.thehindu.com

2.bp.blogspot.com
 
2013-08-14 08:09:59 AM
We should offer our assistance. It would really curry some favor with India.
 
2013-08-14 08:10:15 AM

gfid: I don't even now what a raksasha is who who Darren McGavin is either, but I was entertained.


Darren McGavin (the dad from the movie "A Christmas Story") played the character Carl Kolchak in the 1970's TV horror series "Kolchak: The Night Stalker".   One of the episodes involved a shape-shifting Hindu demon called a 'rakshasa'.  In that episode, he kills the rakshasa, who appears to him to be the elderly advice columnist from his work, with a crossbow bolt.
 
2013-08-14 08:11:35 AM

JohnCarter: It is an actual submarine..who knew


Well, it's more of an ex submarine now.

demotivators.despair.com
 
2013-08-14 08:12:44 AM

JohnCarter: It is an actual submarine..who knew

[www.thehindu.com image 636x390]

[2.bp.blogspot.com image 468x312]


That can't be an Indian submarine.

There aren't 1000 people standing on the hull.
 
2013-08-14 08:14:44 AM

abhorrent1: It was docked and they couldn't keep it from sinking? Don't they have ropes in India?


None that are avaliable. They are all used for this:
www.openthemagazine.com
 
2013-08-14 08:16:05 AM

LoneVVolf: Last year, India acquired a Russian Nerpa nuclear submarine for its navy on a 10-year lease from Russia at a total cost of nearly $1 billion.

On Saturday, India activated the atomic reactor on its first indigenously designed and built nuclear submarine, which the navy could deploy in the next two years.

Mmmhmmm... Sounds like they only needed a 1-year lease to copy all that Russian tech over.


Let...  Let me understand your theory better.

It's your theory that the Indians leased a diesel powered submarine and reverse engineered a diesel powered engine to make a nuclear powered submarine.

Is that really the line of reasoning you want to be farkied for?  Really?
 
2013-08-14 08:16:45 AM

Creoena: Well, somebody didn't do the needful.


Over in 4.   Maybe someone tried to reboot it.
 
2013-08-14 08:19:42 AM
I wonder if they were practicing Chinese fire drills prior to the "accident."
 
2013-08-14 08:19:50 AM

Shakespeare's Monkey: JohnCarter: It is an actual submarine..who knew

Well, it's more of an ex submarine now.

[demotivators.despair.com image 617x435]


It's still underwater, so technically it's still sub-marine.
 
2013-08-14 08:20:28 AM
I'll bet they blame it on a gay guy.
 
2013-08-14 08:21:57 AM
I can only imagine the fate that awaits their new carrier. .
 
2013-08-14 08:22:19 AM
Because when i think of copying tech to make a cheaper home version, ex-Soviet gear is the first thing i think of....


India hates its military.
 
2013-08-14 08:22:27 AM
images4.wikia.nocookie.net

Have you tried rebooting it?
 
2013-08-14 08:24:09 AM

dittybopper: gfid: I don't even now what a raksasha is who who Darren McGavin is either, but I was entertained.

Darren McGavin (the dad from the movie "A Christmas Story") played the character Carl Kolchak in the 1970's TV horror series "Kolchak: The Night Stalker".   One of the episodes involved a shape-shifting Hindu demon called a 'rakshasa'.  In that episode, he kills the rakshasa, who appears to him to be the elderly advice columnist from his work, with a crossbow bolt.


radioactive-studios.com
What a Rakshasa looks like when not appearing as one of your friends.
 
2013-08-14 08:26:44 AM

ranak: I can only imagine the fate that awaits their new carrier. .


It's going to hit some sort of storm-induced temporal anomaly, and go back in time to 1857 on the eave of the Indian Rebellion, and the crew will attempt to interdict British colonial troops, only to be stopped by the reappearance of the storm which sent them back in time in the first place.
 
2013-08-14 08:27:26 AM
Indian Submarine Fleet Fading Away

"September 3, 2009: India's slothful and larcenous weapons procurement bureaucracy has been blamed on the delays, and cost overruns, encountered in building six French Scorpene diesel-electric submarines. Currently, the project is two years behind schedule. But it is even more behind schedule if you count the several years the Indian bureaucrats delayed it even getting started. The delays are going to cost India an additional half a billion dollars. That's for a project that is currently expected to cost $4 billion.

There's some urgency to all this, because by 2012, five of India's 16 subs (10 Kilo and two Foxtrot class Russian built boats and , four German Type 209s) will be retired (some are already semi-retired because of age and infirmity). Two years after that, India will only have five working subs."
 
2013-08-14 08:28:50 AM

Red Shirt Blues: dittybopper: gfid: I don't even now what a raksasha is who who Darren McGavin is either, but I was entertained.

Darren McGavin (the dad from the movie "A Christmas Story") played the character Carl Kolchak in the 1970's TV horror series "Kolchak: The Night Stalker".   One of the episodes involved a shape-shifting Hindu demon called a 'rakshasa'.  In that episode, he kills the rakshasa, who appears to him to be the elderly advice columnist from his work, with a crossbow bolt.

[radioactive-studios.com image 560x420]
What a Rakshasa looks like when not appearing as one of your friends.


Man, Hagrid has really let himself go...
 
2013-08-14 08:32:09 AM
India Prepares For The Worst

December 28, 2009: India is preparing for the worst, when it comes to its submarine fleet. This can be seen by the fact that India paid the U.S. Navy $100,000 to be one of the countries that can have American SRDRS (submarine rescue equipment) flown in, on 48 hours notice.

India is expecting a submarine disaster.


Indian admirals are resigned to the fact that their submarine fleet (of 16 boats) will shrink before new subs can be built. By 2012, five of India's 16 subs (10 Kilo and two Foxtrot class Russian built boats and four German Type 209s) will be retired (some are already semi-retired because of age and infirmity). Two years after that, India will only have five working subs. Meanwhile, the older subs still go to sea for training. While it would be safer to just keep these boats in port, without the training, these subs, and their crews, would be in even greater danger if war broke out.
 
2013-08-14 08:35:49 AM

dittybopper: ranak: I can only imagine the fate that awaits their new carrier. .

It's going to hit some sort of storm-induced temporal anomaly, and go back in time to 1857 on the eave of the Indian Rebellion, and the crew will attempt to interdict British colonial troops, only to be stopped by the reappearance of the storm which sent them back in time in the first place.


I hate you a little bit for now making me want to watch that movie. Off to Netflix.
 
2013-08-14 08:37:53 AM
http://www.strategypage.com/htmw/htsub/articles/20130105.aspx

The Curse Continues

January 5, 2013: The Indian Navy made public its efforts to get critical (but unnamed) replacement parts for the nuclear submarine (INS Chakra) it received from Russia last January. India has often had problems getting parts or other forms of service for Russian weapons. The Indians are no longer inclined to play nice with the Russians on these matters. President Putin of Russia promised to sort this out quickly.

INS Chakra was formally the Nerpa, a Russian Akula II class submarine that was supposed to be turned over to India (which is leasing it) three years ago. The main reason for the delay was a safety issue. Four years ago, during sea trials, there was an equipment failure that killed 20 sailors and shipyard workers aboard the Nerpa. This delayed sea trials for many months and the Russians found more items that needed attention. These additional inspections and repairs continued until quite recently. India is paying $90 million a year for ten years to lease the Nerpa, an 8,100 ton Russian sub that was then renamed INS Chakra (the same name used by the Charlie class Russian sub India leased from 1988-91) by the Indians.

There have been many reasons for getting this sub from Russia. Back in 2010 the Indian crew, after more than a year of training, found that they were not fully prepared to take over the sub. The crew required another six months of training. The Russians were being blamed, partly because they were in charge of the training and partly because they recently made a lot of internal changes to the Nerpa. But Indians also admit that all their veteran nuclear submarine sailors (who manned a leased Russian nuclear sub from 1988-91) were retired and the difficulties of learning how to run a nuclear boat were underestimated.
The Nerpa was built for this Indian deal and finally completed its sea trials and was accepted into Russian service in late 2009. India was supposed to take possession in May 2010, but there were more delays, mainly because of the accidental activation of the fire extinguisher system and death of twenty on board. There were 208 people aboard the sub at the time, most of them navy and shipyard personnel there to closely monitor all aspects of the sub as it made its first dives and other maneuvers. The source of the fatal accident was poor design and construction of the safety systems. This accident led to sailors and shipyard technicians being fearful of going to sea on the boat. So the sea trials were delayed, even after repairs were made.

The post-accident modifications on the Nerpa cost $65 million. The lease arrangement has India paying $178,000 a day, for ten years, for use of the sub. The 7,000 ton Akula II requires a crew of 73 highly trained sailors. Over a hundred Indian sailors have undergone training to run the boat.
It was Indian money that enabled Russia to complete construction on at least two Akulas. These boats were less than half finished at the end of the Cold War. This was another aftereffect of the collapse of the Soviet Union. Several major shipbuilding projects were basically put on hold (which still cost a lot of money), in the hopes that something would turn up. In this case, it was Indians with lots of cash.
Traditionally, when a new ship loses a lot of people during sea trials it is regarded as "cursed" and unlucky. Sailors can be superstitious, especially when there are dead bodies involved. It's not known if India will have any problems with this.
India has designed and built its own nuclear sub but the first one is basically a development craft, and mass production of Indian designed nuclear subs is still 5-10 years away. The unlucky Russian sub will enable India to train more nuclear sub sailors in the meantime.
 
2013-08-14 08:39:12 AM
India has been trying for some years to go down the "Big Navy" path, to counter Chinese attempts to surround her with naval bases.  It won't work. They're not ready for it.
 
2013-08-14 08:40:43 AM
Who knew  native Americans had submarines?
 
2013-08-14 08:41:20 AM
Trying to get the day off with fire strategy.
 
2013-08-14 08:45:35 AM
How do Indian subs even submerge?  Aren't just packed with thousands of people inside and all over it like their trains?
 
2013-08-14 08:45:44 AM

Archie Goodwin: JohnCarter: It is an actual submarine..who knew

[www.thehindu.com image 636x390]

[2.bp.blogspot.com image 468x312]

That can't be an Indian submarine.

There aren't 1000 people standing on the hull.


You're a bad person and you should feel bad for making me lol like that.
 
2013-08-14 09:00:16 AM

Satanic_Hamster: LoneVVolf: Last year, India acquired a Russian Nerpa nuclear submarine for its navy on a 10-year lease from Russia at a total cost of nearly $1 billion.

On Saturday, India activated the atomic reactor on its first indigenously designed and built nuclear submarine, which the navy could deploy in the next two years.

Mmmhmmm... Sounds like they only needed a 1-year lease to copy all that Russian tech over.

Let...  Let me understand your theory better.

It's your theory that the Indians leased a diesel powered submarine and reverse engineered a diesel powered engine to make a nuclear powered submarine.

Is that really the line of reasoning you want to be farkied for?  Really?


Let... Let me understand your theory better.

It's your theory, that you can not fully read and understand the entirety of a post before you immediately jump down to the comment box and start incorrectly chastising someone for a mistake they didn't make?

Is that really the line of reasoning you want to be farkied for? Really?

/Bolded the important parts you skimmed.
 
2013-08-14 09:02:00 AM
As a man who does science on a regular basis, it is my professional science opinion the it was a build-up of methane from the previous nights tandoori goats ass, curried weasel and garlic naan.
Now as a man of science, I'm off to do more science,
/science
 
2013-08-14 09:10:57 AM

dancindan84: Let... Let me understand your theory better.

It's your theory, that you can not fully read and understand the entirety of a post before you immediately jump down to the comment box and start incorrectly chastising someone for a mistake they didn't make?

Is that really the line of reasoning you want to be farkied for? Really?

/Bolded the important parts you skimmed.


Eh.

Just got up.

4.bp.blogspot.com
 
2013-08-14 09:11:56 AM
I don't see why Native Americans needed a submarine anyway...
 
2013-08-14 09:18:22 AM

ein727: I don't see why Native Americans needed a submarine anyway...


Sneak up on water buffalo.
 
2013-08-14 09:23:37 AM
Submarines are supposed to sink, subtard.
 
2013-08-14 09:26:04 AM
FTA:  "India has had 14 diesel-powered submarines, he said..."

FTFY.

/I do have to wonder if they called Russian Sub Tech Support and got put on hold while the customer service rep got his script.

 //Pretty sure this problem got escalated.
 
2013-08-14 09:27:43 AM

ranak: dittybopper: ranak: I can only imagine the fate that awaits their new carrier. .

It's going to hit some sort of storm-induced temporal anomaly, and go back in time to 1857 on the eave of the Indian Rebellion, and the crew will attempt to interdict British colonial troops, only to be stopped by the reappearance of the storm which sent them back in time in the first place.

I hate you a little bit for now making me want to watch that movie. Off to Netflix.


The interesting thing, if you think about it, is that the Japanese could have probably sank the Nimitz if they knew where it was by simply throwing every available plane at it.  They'd have suffered huge losses in aircraft, of course, but I doubt the Nimitz could have successfully held off a concerted attack by 270-odd strike aircraft.   Just not enough assets to prevent all of them from getting through.

/Quantity has a quality all its own.
 
2013-08-14 09:29:46 AM

abhorrent1: It was docked and they couldn't keep it from sinking? Don't they have ropes in India?


Did'nt you see that bridge Short Round was on?
 
2013-08-14 09:29:47 AM

Ned Stark: Submarines are supposed to sink, subtard.


Yeah, but you see, what happens is you take the number of times you've submerged, add that to the number of times you've surfaced, and divide by 2.  If the result isn't even, don't open the hatch.
 
2013-08-14 09:30:45 AM

NEPAman: FTA:  "India has had 14 diesel-powered submarines, he said..."

FTFY.

/I do have to wonder if they called Russian Sub Tech Support and got put on hold while the customer service rep got his script.

 //Pretty sure this problem got escalated.


Did you try reboarding?
 
2013-08-14 09:31:54 AM
Was it trying to reach Pakistan?
 
2013-08-14 09:33:13 AM

Satanic_Hamster: Last year, India acquired a Russian Nerpa nuclear submarine for its navy


Reading comprehension, does you has any?
 
2013-08-14 09:36:01 AM

dittybopper: The interesting thing, if you think about it, is that the Japanese could have probably sank the Nimitz if they knew where it was by simply throwing every available plane at it. They'd have suffered huge losses in aircraft, of course, but I doubt the Nimitz could have successfully held off a concerted attack by 270-odd strike aircraft. Just not enough assets to prevent all of them from getting through.


CIWS?
 
2013-08-14 09:36:25 AM

DirtyDeadGhostofEbenezerCooke: ein727: I don't see why Native Americans needed a submarine anyway...

Sneak up on water buffalo.


Air came out of my nose.  This is wrong on so, so many levels.

/You are my new hero.
 
2013-08-14 09:36:48 AM

DirtyDeadGhostofEbenezerCooke: ein727: I don't see why Native Americans needed a submarine anyway...

Sneak up on water buffalo.


Or hunt whales.
 
2013-08-14 09:37:31 AM

NEPAman: dittybopper: The interesting thing, if you think about it, is that the Japanese could have probably sank the Nimitz if they knew where it was by simply throwing every available plane at it. They'd have suffered huge losses in aircraft, of course, but I doubt the Nimitz could have successfully held off a concerted attack by 270-odd strike aircraft. Just not enough assets to prevent all of them from getting through.

CIWS?


Nevermind, just remembered CIWS is for anti-ship missile interdiction.
 
2013-08-14 09:41:44 AM

NEPAman: NEPAman: dittybopper: The interesting thing, if you think about it, is that the Japanese could have probably sank the Nimitz if they knew where it was by simply throwing every available plane at it. They'd have suffered huge losses in aircraft, of course, but I doubt the Nimitz could have successfully held off a concerted attack by 270-odd strike aircraft. Just not enough assets to prevent all of them from getting through.

CIWS?

Nevermind, just remembered CIWS is for anti-ship missile interdiction.


Even so, they'd probably run out of ammo, and they wouldn't help against the dive bombers.
 
2013-08-14 09:43:11 AM

dittybopper: ranak: dittybopper: ranak: I can only imagine the fate that awaits their new carrier. .

It's going to hit some sort of storm-induced temporal anomaly, and go back in time to 1857 on the eave of the Indian Rebellion, and the crew will attempt to interdict British colonial troops, only to be stopped by the reappearance of the storm which sent them back in time in the first place.

I hate you a little bit for now making me want to watch that movie. Off to Netflix.

The interesting thing, if you think about it, is that the Japanese could have probably sank the Nimitz if they knew where it was by simply throwing every available plane at it.  They'd have suffered huge losses in aircraft, of course, but I doubt the Nimitz could have successfully held off a concerted attack by 270-odd strike aircraft.   Just not enough assets to prevent all of them from getting through.

/Quantity has a quality all its own.


Ah, old Soviet proverbs.

Honestly, IF the Japanese knew where the Nimitz was, they could have tried, but with an E-2 on the carriers side, they'd see a strike force coming long before it ever got close enough to do any damage. Sure, the Tomcats would run out of missiles and have to resort to throwning rocks at the strike force, but still..

I would think the biggest danger to the Nimitz was from submarines since it's screening ships were gone.
 
2013-08-14 09:43:26 AM
At least it wasn't a Canadian submarine where the roof on the canoe wasn't on tight.
 
2013-08-14 09:56:22 AM

Dheiner: Reading comprehension, does you has any?


That's already been covered, sweetie.  Came late to the party?
 
2013-08-14 10:22:12 AM

ranak: I would think the biggest danger to the Nimitz was from submarines since it's screening ships were gone.


I don't.  Speed is armor.

The Japanese subs would have been limited to a maximum submerged speed of less than 10 knots for short bursts, and couldn't go more than a handful of knots for any length of time.  Plus, they couldn't snorkel, so they'd have to come up for air, at which point they'd be vulnerable.

It's really, really hard to hit something travelling at 25+ knots with a torpedo when you can only do maybe 5 knots for any length of time.  Believe me, I've tried.  You have to be very, very close.  Like, within a 1,500 yards close, preferably much closer.

Also, the Nimitz had some ASW air assets of her own.
 
2013-08-14 10:33:39 AM
Did not realize Kilo class subs were still around, let alone being exported.

/get off my bow
 
2013-08-14 10:49:05 AM

FullMetalPanda: How do Indian subs even submerge?  Aren't just packed with thousands of people inside and all over it like their trains?


Those people are the ballast. Load 'er up to sink it, eject a few to raise it. See?
/they have more than enough people anyways...
 
2013-08-14 10:52:51 AM

DirtyDeadGhostofEbenezerCooke: ein727: I don't see why Native Americans needed a submarine anyway...

Sneak up on water buffalo.


lh4.googleusercontent.com
water buffalo...
 
2013-08-14 11:07:53 AM

ranak: I can only imagine the fate that awaits their new carrier. .


It's going to fly away?
 
2013-08-14 11:18:56 AM
"Hello this is Sanjeev of Underwater Tech how may I help you?"

"Have you tried putting out the fire?"

"Sir, you have voided the warranty good day."
 
2013-08-14 11:43:56 AM
Will the casinos close down in mourning?
 
2013-08-14 12:10:16 PM

dittybopper: ranak: I can only imagine the fate that awaits their new carrier. .

It's going to hit some sort of storm-induced temporal anomaly, and go back in time to 1857 on the eave of the Indian Rebellion, and the crew will attempt to interdict British colonial troops, only to be stopped by the reappearance of the storm which sent them back in time in the first place.


Starring Kirk Douglas.
 
2013-08-14 12:15:34 PM

Foundling: dittybopper: ranak: I can only imagine the fate that awaits their new carrier. .

It's going to hit some sort of storm-induced temporal anomaly, and go back in time to 1857 on the eave of the Indian Rebellion, and the crew will attempt to interdict British colonial troops, only to be stopped by the reappearance of the storm which sent them back in time in the first place.

Starring Kirk Douglas.


And James Mason as the dark, brooding submarine captain who goes down with his boat when it sinks.
 
2013-08-14 12:15:40 PM

dittybopper: ranak: I would think the biggest danger to the Nimitz was from submarines since it's screening ships were gone.

I don't.  Speed is armor.

The Japanese subs would have been limited to a maximum submerged speed of less than 10 knots for short bursts, and couldn't go more than a handful of knots for any length of time.  Plus, they couldn't snorkel, so they'd have to come up for air, at which point they'd be vulnerable.

It's really, really hard to hit something travelling at 25+ knots with a torpedo when you can only do maybe 5 knots for any length of time.  Believe me, I've tried.  You have to be very, very close.  Like, within a 1,500 yards close, preferably much closer.

Also, the Nimitz had some ASW air assets of her own.




I'd figure that, since the Nimitz knew where the Pearl Harbor strike force was located and the Japanese had no way to know the Nimitz was anywhere nearby, the only way they could have been attacked is after the PH strike waves had returned. By then their pilots were exhausted, many of the planes were damaged, and they didn't have a lot of torpedoes left in the carriers. Even a half sized strike force would have run into massed missile attacks, and once the missiles were gone the F-14's would have started using their cannon on the Japanese. If any survived all that, didn't the Nimitz have Sea Sparrow missiles for close in defense along with the Phalanx? The bomb the Val carried was a 550 lb SAP weapon, and it couldn't penetrate the British CV flight deck; the Nimitz' flight deck was thicker so I doubt the DB's would have ended up being much of a threat. It's the torpedoes you'd have to worry about.
 
2013-08-14 12:22:20 PM
"The 16-year-old Russian-made submarine.."

Ah, I think I see the problem.
 
2013-08-14 12:40:17 PM
dittybopper [TotalFark]
2013-08-14 07:36:48 AM

It's a Kilo class boat.

Sounds like a battery fire (relatively common hazard on diesel/electric boats)



Well they should have planned for it, Slots and Video poker machines take up a lot of power. How many people were on the Casino floor when it sank?
 
2013-08-14 12:59:12 PM

dittybopper: Ned Stark: Submarines are supposed to sink, subtard.

Yeah, but you see, what happens is you take the number of times you've submerged, add that to the number of times you've surfaced, and divide by 2. If the result isn't even, don't open the hatch.


Trust me. You couldn't open that hatch when the number is odd, even if you wanted to.
 
2013-08-14 01:08:25 PM

Rabid Badger Beaver Weasel: The 18 who died where trapped after the explosion and fire. Sad day to be a submariner, no matter what country.


lexfridman.com
 
2013-08-14 01:10:52 PM
My question is what would Indiana need with a submarine. I mean its not like anyone is going to torpedo Gary
 
2013-08-14 01:11:31 PM

dittybopper: It's a Kilo class boat.

Sounds like a battery fire (relatively common hazard on diesel/electric boats), followed by some of the torpedoes cooking off.  Either that, or torpedo fuel ignited, which subsequently cooked off the warheads.


Battery fires can happen on any boat, not just diesel\electric ones. It just as easily could have been an O2 fire that caused this. That's happened to us in the past, with the same results as this.
 
2013-08-14 01:15:18 PM
They should have called tech support. They're in the same timezone.
 
2013-08-14 01:22:40 PM

Bendal: I'd figure that, since the Nimitz knew where the Pearl Harbor strike force was located and the Japanese had no way to know the Nimitz was anywhere nearby, the only way they could have been attacked is after the PH strike waves had returned. By then their pilots were exhausted, many of the planes were damaged, and they didn't have a lot of torpedoes left in the carriers. Even a half sized strike force would have run into massed missile attacks, and once the missiles were gone the F-14's would have started using their cannon on the Japanese. If any survived all that, didn't the Nimitz have Sea Sparrow missiles for close in defense along with the Phalanx? The bomb the Val carried was a 550 lb SAP weapon, and it couldn't penetrate the British CV flight deck; the Nimitz' flight deck was thicker so I doubt the DB's would have ended up being much of a threat. It's the torpedoes you'd have to worry about.


Several points:

1. The Japanese may well have known the Nimitz was in the area, as they had a number of submarines (23, if I remember correctly) as part of the strike force against Hawaii.  They were there largely for screening and reconnaissance purposes, and they could have easily sighted the Nimitz and sent a report, which is a much less taxing thing than trying to get into position to shoot.

2. Nagumo could not have ignored a report of a carrier at sea in the area.  He would have had to do one of two things:
a. Turn tail and run as fast as possible, or
b  Attack with everything he possibly could muster.

3. The Kates had 1,760 lb armor piercing bombs derived from 16"  artillery shells, specifically designed to penetrate armored ships.  The Arizona was penetrated by just such a bomb, which is what sank her.  I'm sure they'd have penetrated the flight deck of the Nimitz.  Plus, as you mentioned, there were the torpedo armed planes.
 
2013-08-14 01:23:50 PM

Radioactive Ass: dittybopper: Ned Stark: Submarines are supposed to sink, subtard.

Yeah, but you see, what happens is you take the number of times you've submerged, add that to the number of times you've surfaced, and divide by 2. If the result isn't even, don't open the hatch.

Trust me. You couldn't open that hatch when the number is odd, even if you wanted to.


Yes, I know.  Water pressure holds it tight.  It's a joke.
 
2013-08-14 01:29:17 PM

dittybopper: Radioactive Ass: dittybopper: Ned Stark: Submarines are supposed to sink, subtard.

Yeah, but you see, what happens is you take the number of times you've submerged, add that to the number of times you've surfaced, and divide by 2. If the result isn't even, don't open the hatch.

Trust me. You couldn't open that hatch when the number is odd, even if you wanted to.

Yes, I know.  Water pressure holds it tight.  It's a joke.


Wait a minute:  *TECHNICALLY*, you can, as you should well know because you've trained for that eventuality.
 
2013-08-14 01:49:34 PM
The crew must've had a mean curry the night before ....
 
2013-08-14 02:41:13 PM

dittybopper: dittybopper: Radioactive Ass: dittybopper: Ned Stark: Submarines are supposed to sink, subtard.

Yeah, but you see, what happens is you take the number of times you've submerged, add that to the number of times you've surfaced, and divide by 2. If the result isn't even, don't open the hatch.

Trust me. You couldn't open that hatch when the number is odd, even if you wanted to.

Yes, I know.  Water pressure holds it tight.  It's a joke.

Wait a minute:  *TECHNICALLY*, you can, as you should well know because you've trained for that eventuality.


I know more about that than most people, including many other submariners (that was my first checkout that I was given to do for others. 2 hours of hell for those people, 2nd only to DC in the amount of crap you had to know and never use... if you're lucky). But... that's a bit more involved than just opening a hatch and the odds are that you wouldn't survive the attempt unless there's a rescue ship above you, and that you don't hit it on the way up.

Escape trunks were invented for mothers, wives and congressmen. Not to be used in an emergency. 99% of the time you are already in waters much deeper than your design crush depth. There's a reason that so few successful submarine rescues have happened. I believe the last one was the Squalus in the late 1930's. Of course you make the effort anyway but unless you were in a collision with a merchant while transiting to your dive point you are not going to survive a flooding casualty that you can't get under control really quick. See Thresher.
 
2013-08-14 04:08:00 PM

Radioactive Ass: There's a reason that so few successful submarine rescues have happened. I believe the last one was the Squalus in the late 1930's.


Actually, there have been a number of self-rescues from submarines since the Squailfish,   It was semi-common in WWII in shallower waters, though often only a small handful would make it out.  Often that was because all the other compartments were flooded.  Then, especially in the Atlantic and North Sea, those that did get out that way often froze to death.

There are a number of such escapes documented by Clay Blair in his seminal work "Hitler's U-Boat War", volumes I and II.
 
2013-08-14 05:14:00 PM

dittybopper: Radioactive Ass: There's a reason that so few successful submarine rescues have happened. I believe the last one was the Squalus in the late 1930's.

Actually, there have been a number of self-rescues from submarines since the Squailfish,   It was semi-common in WWII in shallower waters, though often only a small handful would make it out.  Often that was because all the other compartments were flooded.  Then, especially in the Atlantic and North Sea, those that did get out that way often froze to death.

There are a number of such escapes documented by Clay Blair in his seminal work "Hitler's U-Boat War", volumes I and II.


Yeah. I should have put large scale in there. My point is that the odds of a successful escape are very, very slim. A lot of things have to go perfectly right to pull it off. Unless you sank next to the pier you're pretty much screwed. Right around 700' is the maximum depth that you might be able to get out alive (and by that I mean on the surface and still breathing, probably with at least some minor air embolisms in your lungs, a slight case of the bends and ruptured eardrums at the minimum) and most of the time you're in much deeper water than that (over 99% of the worlds oceans are much deeper than crush depth unless you're on something like NR1).

Like I said, the escape and rescue systems are there so you can tell mothers, wives and congress critters that you can rescue people trapped in a sunken submarine (which you can do in theory). The reality is that if you're in that type of situation you're absolutely screwed unless a lot of things fall into just the right place at just the right time. That's why we have submarine pay (really just a specific type of hazardous duty pay).
 
2013-08-14 07:32:08 PM

Radioactive Ass: dittybopper: Radioactive Ass: There's a reason that so few successful submarine rescues have happened. I believe the last one was the Squalus in the late 1930's.

Actually, there have been a number of self-rescues from submarines since the Squailfish,   It was semi-common in WWII in shallower waters, though often only a small handful would make it out.  Often that was because all the other compartments were flooded.  Then, especially in the Atlantic and North Sea, those that did get out that way often froze to death.

There are a number of such escapes documented by Clay Blair in his seminal work "Hitler's U-Boat War", volumes I and II.

Yeah. I should have put large scale in there. My point is that the odds of a successful escape are very, very slim. A lot of things have to go perfectly right to pull it off. Unless you sank next to the pier you're pretty much screwed. Right around 700' is the maximum depth that you might be able to get out alive (and by that I mean on the surface and still breathing, probably with at least some minor air embolisms in your lungs, a slight case of the bends and ruptured eardrums at the minimum) and most of the time you're in much deeper water than that (over 99% of the worlds oceans are much deeper than crush depth unless you're on something like NR1).

Like I said, the escape and rescue systems are there so you can tell mothers, wives and congress critters that you can rescue people trapped in a sunken submarine (which you can do in theory). The reality is that if you're in that type of situation you're absolutely screwed unless a lot of things fall into just the right place at just the right time. That's why we have submarine pay (really just a specific type of hazardous duty pay).


Reminded me of this: Mare Island Mud Puppy
 
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