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(Bloomberg)   Kerry announces intention to never hold political office again   (bloomberg.com) divider line 28
    More: Hero, politicos, Benjamin Netanyahu, Iranian nuclear program, Prime Minister of Israel, Likud, political center, secretary of states  
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2987 clicks; posted to Politics » on 14 Aug 2013 at 7:04 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



28 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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2013-08-14 07:09:19 AM
Because if israel is worried about anything, its being isolated.
 
2013-08-14 07:10:12 AM
Uh oh.  Get the asbestos underroos out for this thead.
 
2013-08-14 07:14:01 AM

way south: Because if israel is worried about anything, its being isolated.


Eh, the US is its "best and only friend" who can be counted on to veto anything and everything the least bit inconvenient to Israel in the UN Security Council, so there's no need to worry about sternly-worded resolutions, sanctions, or UN peacekeepers deploying to ensure settlements aren't built on Palestinian land... right, Messrs.  Goldberg and  Bloomberg?
 
2013-08-14 07:15:38 AM
LOOK! In the sky! THE TATSUMA SIGNAL!

na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-NAAAAAA!

/kidding
 
2013-08-14 07:22:47 AM
What, a guy whose granddad was a rabbi, yet whose last name means something like Wanker in Hebrew will be clobbered for trying to reason with Netanyahu?
 
2013-08-14 07:32:04 AM
That isolation is the only reason Israel hasn't bombed Iran yet. Iran couldn't hope to win the military engagement, but the diplomatic one isn't terribly in Israel's favor. Can't completely isolate Israel, though, because that just gives them license to do anything they want.
 
2013-08-14 07:44:46 AM
This message broadcast from Susquehannock territory...
 
2013-08-14 08:05:08 AM

dbirchall: way south: Because if israel is worried about anything, its being isolated.

Eh, the US is its "best and only friend" who can be counted on to veto anything and everything the least bit inconvenient to Israel in the UN Security Council, so there's no need to worry about sternly-worded resolutions, sanctions, or UN peacekeepers deploying to ensure settlements aren't built on Palestinian land... right, Messrs.  Goldberg and  Bloomberg?


Wait, the UN matters?  Even if they passed something, nothing would happen without the World Police's approval.

Who has the biggest army in the world?  Right, and what happens when the US and UN don't agree?  The US wins.  Always.

/not saying I agree with the situation, but let's be realistic here...
 
2013-08-14 08:11:08 AM
It's simultaneously amusing, terrifying and depressing watching Israel become the very people from which they were trying to escape by establishing the country in the first place.
 
2013-08-14 08:16:20 AM

blue_2501: Who has the biggest army in the world?


China.

I'm betting you meant "most powerful" army in the world.
 
2013-08-14 08:26:51 AM
This is where we need someone to Photoshop Hillary into Grumpy Cat
 
2013-08-14 08:28:34 AM

Karma Chameleon: It's simultaneously amusing, terrifying and depressing watching Israel become the very people from which they were trying to escape by establishing the country in the first place.


Its the Palestinians who most aspired to be like Germany. Part and parcelof why the Jews were given the Pal's property in the aftermath of the wars was the fact that their side lost.

There is alot of needless suffering in this situation but the source is the equally needless aggression from both sides. Palestinians are unreliable partners to negotiate with and Israelies overreact when shiat starts exploding.
If they'd actually agree to an armistice then maybe there could be progress.
...But they don't want it, and all we want is a safe port in the middle east. So we pay the docking fees and turn a blind to the locals problems.

Kerry thinks he can threaten Israel with isolation, but they know its the US that's at greater risk for being cut off from that part of the world. So I wouldn't expect much from these negotiations.
 
2013-08-14 09:05:32 AM

way south: Karma Chameleon: It's simultaneously amusing, terrifying and depressing watching Israel become the very people from which they were trying to escape by establishing the country in the first place.

Its the Palestinians who most aspired to be like Germany. Part and parcelof why the Jews were given the Pal's property in the aftermath of the wars was the fact that their side lost.

There is alot of needless suffering in this situation but the source is the equally needless aggression from both sides. Palestinians are unreliable partners to negotiate with and Israelies overreact when shiat starts exploding.
If they'd actually agree to an armistice then maybe there could be progress.
...But they don't want it, and all we want is a safe port in the middle east. So we pay the docking fees and turn a blind to the locals problems.

Kerry thinks he can threaten Israel with isolation, but they know its the US that's at greater risk for being cut off from that part of the world. So I wouldn't expect much from these negotiations.


Uh, no.

What's "cutting us off from that part of the world" is our multi-decade strategy of letting Israel do virtually anything they want short of randomly bombing enemy Nations and us always having their back.

The day we treat Israel with the same diplomatic standards we have for other allies is the day diplomatic credibility in "that part of the world" improves.
 
2013-08-14 09:09:51 AM

Coach_J: What's "cutting us off from that part of the world" is our multi-decade strategy of letting Israel do virtually anything they want


That and the wars, drone strikes, embargoes, etc...
Supporting Israel is just the icing on a very large thuggery cake.

We won't be forgiven by their neighbors for waving a finger at the Jews.

/Actually we'll probably be laughed at and then suicide-bombed again.
 
2013-08-14 09:29:43 AM
That's not out of character. Kerry won the presidential election in 2004, but never held the office. Thanks again, Ken Blackwell of Ohio.
 
2013-08-14 09:30:40 AM

EyeballKid: That's not out of character. Kerry won the presidential election in 2004, but never held the office. Thanks again, Ken Blackwell of Ohio.


Countdown until some outraged person claims you're wrong in 5... 4... 3..
 
2013-08-14 09:31:34 AM

way south: Kerry thinks he can threaten Israel with isolation, but they know its the US that's at greater risk for being cut off from that part of the world. So I wouldn't expect much from these negotiations.


It's not Kerry making the threats, it's Kerry trying to navigate some diplomacy around threats of BDS from EU-member states (or the EU itself).

It's also Netanyahu being pretty much the most bullheaded rightist the Knesset could confirm these days. It's nice that he's starting to wake up to reality, but it's very easy to imagine the next (rightist) PM being just as bullheaded. Something about advanced age (or the end of one's career) making a person more realistic or willing to compromise. As it stands, Bibi isn't the most revered Netanyahu of his generation - he's got a tough hill to climb on that one, but getting an actual peace process started (sorry, Rabin) would move them closer to neck-and-neck.
 
2013-08-14 09:58:02 AM

Dr Dreidel: but getting an actual peace process started


Netanyahu would rather release convicted murderers than stop settlement building. If this sounds like a fantastical, absurd exaggeration, think about it again---it's exactly what's happening.
 
2013-08-14 10:12:07 AM

dbirchall: way south: Because if israel is worried about anything, its being isolated.

Eh, the US is its "best and only friend" who can be counted on to veto anything and everything the least bit inconvenient to Israel in the UN Security Council, so there's no need to worry about sternly-worded resolutions, sanctions, or UN peacekeepers deploying to ensure settlements aren't built on Palestinian land... right, Messrs.  Goldberg and  Bloomberg?


U.S. still Israel's biatch. Film at 11.
 
2013-08-14 10:13:18 AM

proteus_b: If this sounds like a fantastical, absurd exaggeration, think about it again---it's exactly what's happening.


Sounds more like an oversimplification than an exaggeration, actually.

In a negotiation, you don't get to pick what the other side wants. If they'd rather ask for their murderers back than ask for a halt to settlements, Bibi's happy to oblige. Personally, I don't think it matters - it's not like there's a shortage of recruits for bombings, and I just severely discount any notion that these 50 guys have special skills or knowledge that the rest of Hamas doesn't.

Yeah, it sucks that they walk, but having them rot in jail doesn't fix buildings or lives. If (and that's an if too big for a <big> tag) their release secures a permanent advancement in the process, it's the lesser of two evils.

// if recent history is a guide, we're back in 1991-3 (pre-Oslo, or even just-post-, when it looked like big things might happen)
// same as it ever was
 
2013-08-14 10:26:11 AM

Jairzinho: dbirchall: way south: Because if israel is worried about anything, its being isolated.

Eh, the US is its "best and only friend" who can be counted on to veto anything and everything the least bit inconvenient to Israel in the UN Security Council, so there's no need to worry about sternly-worded resolutions, sanctions, or UN peacekeepers deploying to ensure settlements aren't built on Palestinian land... right, Messrs.  Goldberg and  Bloomberg?

U.S. still Israel's biatch. Film at 11.


...and that's why we bombed Iran.
 
2013-08-14 10:34:22 AM
Israel and Benjy especially should have known that were proper screwed when Obama picked Kerry to follow Hillary as SoS; his credentials will allow him to continue to put the screws to the pro-Israel lobby without giving them any ammunition to attack him.

Unfortunately, the GOP in Congress will continue to roll over and give Israel whatever it wants.
 
2013-08-14 10:56:41 AM

way south: Coach_J: What's "cutting us off from that part of the world" is our multi-decade strategy of letting Israel do virtually anything they want

That and the wars, drone strikes, embargoes, etc...
Supporting Israel is just the icing on a very large thuggery cake.

We won't be forgiven by their neighbors for waving a finger at the Jews.

/Actually we'll probably be laughed at and then suicide-bombed again.


Agreed...I oversimplified it to a large margin.  It won't result in some "we like you now" on/off switch being flipped...but it will likely move the dial over a few notches on the "how much do we hate you bastards" dial.  Still not positive, but at least a few clicks in the right direction.
 
2013-08-14 11:04:20 AM

Dwight_Yeast: pro-Israel lobby


One can be pro-Israel without being anti-Palestinian - you know this, yes? AIPAC and J St (to say nothing of the actual left of American-Israeli-Palestinian lobbying) are not the only games in town, though they certainly are the biggest.

Hilldawg and The Windsurfer (dibs on the band name) are of the "tough love" school of diplomacy. Israel's been given wide leeway to do some stupid shiat recently, and it's hurt the US with blowback. It's in the US' interests to not have our relationship with Israel (special or otherwise) be a detriment to the rest of our diplomatic work.
 
2013-08-14 12:01:39 PM

EyeballKid: That's not out of character. Kerry won the presidential election in 2004, but never held the office. Thanks again, Ken Blackwell of Ohio.


I will say that Kerry probably did make the right decision in not pressing the issue, even though they did put the evidence in front of him before he conceded. The whole process would have been far more destructive than a second term of Bush was, even given how destructive and awful as the Bush presidency was. Sometimes, being right is less important than being gracious.

I have huge respect for Kerry, and I'm really glad he got the Secretary of State job. IMO, he was always a better choice than Susan Rice, so while I wasn't happy per say watching Republicans kill her nomination, I did get some satisfaction in that it resulted in Kerry getting the job.
 
2013-08-14 08:24:38 PM
I have a feeling that if Israel stopped being dicks about expanding their territory and bulldozing other people's homes, they'd be in a better position in the eyes of the rest of the world.
 
2013-08-15 11:38:55 AM

Karma Chameleon: It's simultaneously amusing, terrifying and depressing watching Israel become the very people from which they were trying to escape by establishing the country in the first place.


It's not unlike watching the Religious Right in America slowly turn into the Taliban.
 
2013-08-15 01:16:31 PM

DeaH: Karma Chameleon: It's simultaneously amusing, terrifying and depressing watching Israel become the very people from which they were trying to escape by establishing the country in the first place.

It's not unlike watching the Religious Right in America slowly turn into the Taliban.


Slowly?
Turn into?

The religious right has always been there. They just keep their less laudable opinions to themselves.

Seriously - does anyone REALLY think that if the religious right had a monopoly on power, that if they literally comprised 80% of the population and 100% of the government, that the lead issue regarding gay rights would be MARRIAGE and, in some states, sodomy laws?
 
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