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(Huffington Post)   Think the contents of your GMail account are private? Google doesn't   (huffingtonpost.com) divider line 174
    More: Obvious, Gmail, Google, Google Buzz, reasonable expectation of privacy, personal message, thunderbird, direct access  
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13686 clicks; posted to Main » on 14 Aug 2013 at 1:25 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-08-13 09:48:25 PM
SMTP is cleartext across the network. If I wanted to sniff packets and read people's emails, I could easily do so.

The plaintiffs in this case are dumbasses.
 
2013-08-13 09:57:02 PM
Sometimes I wonder just how many people I'm boring the f*ck out of

/besides Farkers, I mean
 
NFA [TotalFark]
2013-08-13 10:43:52 PM

GWSuperfan: SMTP is cleartext across the network. If I wanted to sniff packets and read people's emails, I could easily do so.

The plaintiffs in this case are dumbasses.


And you would be breaking the law.
 
2013-08-13 11:05:52 PM
Bomb terrorism bomb backpack pressure cooker yeehaw. Oh, I forgot allahu akbar. I'm getting tired of this shiat.
 
2013-08-14 12:07:54 AM

dudemanbro: Bomb terrorism bomb backpack pressure cooker yeehaw. Oh, I forgot allahu akbar. I'm getting tired of this shiat.


Google isn't the government .They will just send you targeted adverts on those items. "Try Walmart for your pressure cooker needs" We will match any price .
 
2013-08-14 12:10:04 AM

sithon: dudemanbro: Bomb terrorism bomb backpack pressure cooker yeehaw. Oh, I forgot allahu akbar. I'm getting tired of this shiat.

Google isn't the government .They will just send you targeted adverts on those items. "Try Walmart for your pressure cooker needs" We will match any price .


Ok, I can see that

/but the ad for ball bearings seemed a little weird
 
2013-08-14 12:18:42 AM
Newsflash:  There isn't someone on staff at Google (or at the NSA) reading your farking emails.  It would be a colossal waste of time and resources, because we're all nobodies.

In a similar vein, there are 100 hours of video uploaded to YouTube every minute.  It is a physical impossibility for them to give any quantity of shiats about your fantasy football trade offers and UPS package tracking information.
 
2013-08-14 12:26:57 AM

MaudlinMutantMollusk: Sometimes I wonder just how many people I'm boring the f*ck out of

/besides Farkers, I mean


Oh, no. We don't think you're boring. Not one bit.
 
2013-08-14 12:34:53 AM
Google pretty much told me that they'd have robots sifting through my emails to advertise to me.  So.. I didn't really expect to be private in that sense.
 
2013-08-14 12:44:23 AM

Relatively Obscure: Google pretty much told me that they'd have robots sifting through my emails to advertise to me.  So.. I didn't really expect to be private in that sense.


That's what I came here to say. I'm pretty sure it told me it was going to read my email in the user agreement when I first opened my account way back when. We were all cool with it then. I'll just use the account for junk, I told myself.
 
2013-08-14 12:48:27 AM

Dust: Newsflash:  There isn't someone on staff at Google (or at the NSA) reading your farking emails.  It would be a colossal waste of time and resources, because we're all nobodies.

In a similar vein, there are 100 hours of video uploaded to YouTube every minute.  It is a physical impossibility for them to give any quantity of shiats about your fantasy football trade offers and UPS package tracking information.


Alright, I'll bite. I agree with you and think you're right, but I'll play devil's advocate here. The concern is not that there is some pervert sitting there on his lunch break just sifting through all my sexts. It's that these programs are clearly automated, and Google and the NSA have both confirmed as much regarding their respective programs. So you have a massive database with crawlers set to ping every time certain keywords appear within n number of spaces of each other. In order for the guy who runs the software to determine if it's a false positive, he then must logically read the actual email or text. Irrespective of whether or not the person who sent or received it has ever been accused or suspected of anything. That reading would appear to be either a violation of privacy, or in the case of the FBI and NSA, an unreasonable search and seizure.
 
2013-08-14 01:20:15 AM

HotWingAgenda: Dust: Newsflash:  There isn't someone on staff at Google (or at the NSA) reading your farking emails.  It would be a colossal waste of time and resources, because we're all nobodies.

In a similar vein, there are 100 hours of video uploaded to YouTube every minute.  It is a physical impossibility for them to give any quantity of shiats about your fantasy football trade offers and UPS package tracking information.

Alright, I'll bite. I agree with you and think you're right, but I'll play devil's advocate here. The concern is not that there is some pervert sitting there on his lunch break just sifting through all my sexts. It's that these programs are clearly automated, and Google and the NSA have both confirmed as much regarding their respective programs. So you have a massive database with crawlers set to ping every time certain keywords appear within n number of spaces of each other. In order for the guy who runs the software to determine if it's a false positive, he then must logically read the actual email or text. Irrespective of whether or not the person who sent or received it has ever been accused or suspected of anything. That reading would appear to be either a violation of privacy, or in the case of the FBI and NSA, an unreasonable search and seizure.


I agree with everything you said except that.

There are humans involved in the system and humans will peek at shiat they're not supposed to. You know, for the lulz. And this sort of behavior becomes even more likely when there is no oversight and no real penalty for doing so.

So there is actually a legitimate issue with the NSA's snooping activity. The problem is there is literally nothing anyone can do about it. Data mining technology is getting better and cheaper and the US government has the keys to the Internet.
 
2013-08-14 01:27:13 AM
Subby's mom found out the hard way...
 
2013-08-14 01:28:41 AM
Don't be evil don't be evil don't be evil don't be evil don't be evil don't be evil don't be evil don't be evil don't be evil....
 
2013-08-14 01:29:36 AM
Type your letter out in Photoshop or Paint or Gimp and save it as a .jpg file.  Attach to email.  Send.  Sure, Google could download it and look at it, but their scanner software will not be able to read it.
 
2013-08-14 01:30:42 AM

dudemanbro: Bomb terrorism bomb backpack pressure cooker yeehaw. Oh, I forgot allahu akbar. I'm getting tired of this shiat.


OsamaObamaYellowcakePutinSmallpoxDirtybombAnthraxHijackNorthKorea9/11M ilitiaColumbineUnibomber
 
wee [TotalFark]
2013-08-14 01:31:52 AM
It's goddam EMAIL.  It was NEVER private!  It's the high tech equivalent of writing on a bathroom wall for fark's sake...
 
2013-08-14 01:33:16 AM
It's okay
/I trust Google
 
2013-08-14 01:33:28 AM

Mitch Taylor's Bro: There are humans involved in the system and humans will peek at shiat they're not supposed to. You know, for the lulz. And this sort of behavior becomes even more likely when there is no oversight and no real penalty for doing so.


Well, the link you helpfully provided proves that there are oversight and penalties, even when some keystone kop goes sniffing through a local police database. The Feds have stricter requirements for new hires, and make employees get re-investigated every few years no matter what. Most of the claims currently flying around teh interwebs about there being no oversight or restrictions on these databases were originated in public statements made by the guy that very publicly fled to China and then to Russia.
 
2013-08-14 01:36:26 AM
I'm a system administrator.  I've managed mail servers in the past.  Of course your email is not private.  I can read it.

Want privacy? Use encryption.

Also, you should be ashamed of yourselves.  Every one of you.
 
2013-08-14 01:37:40 AM

Mock26: Type your letter out in Photoshop or Paint or Gimp and save it as a .jpg file.  Attach to email.  Send.  Sure, Google could download it and look at it, but their scanner software will not be able to read it.


You wish.  Scanning image files for text has been done.
 
2013-08-14 01:38:16 AM
Don't trip I'm adding ads to my maps also
 
2013-08-14 01:38:51 AM

NFA: GWSuperfan: SMTP is cleartext across the network. If I wanted to sniff packets and read people's emails, I could easily do so.

The plaintiffs in this case are dumbasses.

And you would be breaking the law.


Most likely, no.
 
2013-08-14 01:39:02 AM

Dust: It is a physical impossibility for them to give any quantity of shiats about your fantasy football trade offers


I wouldn't put it past the GreenTown Gunts to snoop my email and try to poach my deals. I hate that bastard SO MUCH.
 
2013-08-14 01:39:15 AM

NFA: GWSuperfan: SMTP is cleartext across the network. If I wanted to sniff packets and read people's emails, I could easily do so.

The plaintiffs in this case are dumbasses.

And you would be breaking the law.


This.

The real problem here is that we have a set of legal standards based upon the use of one technology (a phone system) being applied to another technology (computer networking) without any sensitivity to the fact that these two systems are vastly different once one moves beyond the whole "series of tubes" bit. The real problem here isn't the plaintiff's, it's the legislatures and by extension...us. We don't want to deal with all the thorny problems that new technology raises so most people shrug their shoulders and trust in the NSA.
 
2013-08-14 01:40:40 AM

cambie: Relatively Obscure: Google pretty much told me that they'd have robots sifting through my emails to advertise to me.  So.. I didn't really expect to be private in that sense.

That's what I came here to say. I'm pretty sure it told me it was going to read my email in the user agreement when I first opened my account way back when. We were all cool with it then. I'll just use the account for junk, I told myself.


Same. My Gmail account is used solely for signing up for things that might generate spam (signing petitions, online message boards, etc).


OgreMagi: Mock26: Type your letter out in Photoshop or Paint or Gimp and save it as a .jpg file.  Attach to email.  Send.  Sure, Google could download it and look at it, but their scanner software will not be able to read it.

You wish.  Scanning image files for text has been done.


Steganography is the new hotness.
 
2013-08-14 01:41:06 AM

wee: It's goddam EMAIL.  It was NEVER private!  It's the high tech equivalent of writing on a bathroom wall for fark's sake...


Uh, pretty sure electronic MAIL was supposed to be the high tech equivalent of, well...mail.
 
2013-08-14 01:46:06 AM

PsiChick: wee: It's goddam EMAIL.  It was NEVER private!  It's the high tech equivalent of writing on a bathroom wall for fark's sake...

Uh, pretty sure electronic MAIL was supposed to be the high tech equivalent of, well...mail.


Yes.  And there have been tricks to open old fashioned envelopes to read mail since the first envelope was invented.  And before that there were tricks to open a parchment with an official seal without breaking the seal.  With email you have even less security.  Every single relay the email goes through can simply forward a copy, no envelope to steam open.  If I had access to your providers mail server, it would take me all of five minutes to set that up.
 
2013-08-14 01:47:32 AM
So...google privacy concerns are in the news again...
(*yawn*)
...and some people are surprised.

Ok, lets go over this one more time.  If you are receiving a product or service and not paying for it, you are the profit.  It's really not that hard.  You make the deal with google to get free email, search results, voice mail, and whatever else they offer in exchange for them mining your exchanges over their network to serve up ads.  Nothing's free.  All of those servers don't get maintained out of charity.
 
2013-08-14 01:51:49 AM

OgreMagi: PsiChick: wee: It's goddam EMAIL.  It was NEVER private!  It's the high tech equivalent of writing on a bathroom wall for fark's sake...

Uh, pretty sure electronic MAIL was supposed to be the high tech equivalent of, well...mail.

Yes.  And there have been tricks to open old fashioned envelopes to read mail since the first envelope was invented.  And before that there were tricks to open a parchment with an official seal without breaking the seal.  With email you have even less security.  Every single relay the email goes through can simply forward a copy, no envelope to steam open.  If I had access to your providers mail server, it would take me all of five minutes to set that up.


Er... that's sort of beside the point, though.  The fact that it's technically possible to steam open an envelope and read the contents it doesn't mean the post office is allowed to steam'n'read everything that comes through the place.  I doubt most people believe there's any  technical limitation that would prevent a mail provider from reading their mail, and that obviously wasn't what PsiChick was suggesting.  Rather, as the electronic form of mail, it should have the same  legal protections as traditional mail.  It's one thing to technically be able to read someone else's email - it's another thing to be able to do so with impunity.
 
2013-08-14 01:52:12 AM
You know what? 
I no longer care. Read about my in-law's dogs and cows. Read about which cousin is knocked up or in jail for DWI.

I just don't care.
 
2013-08-14 01:52:39 AM

HotWingAgenda: Dust: Newsflash:  There isn't someone on staff at Google (or at the NSA) reading your farking emails.  It would be a colossal waste of time and resources, because we're all nobodies.

In a similar vein, there are 100 hours of video uploaded to YouTube every minute.  It is a physical impossibility for them to give any quantity of shiats about your fantasy football trade offers and UPS package tracking information.

Alright, I'll bite. I agree with you and think you're right, but I'll play devil's advocate here. The concern is not that there is some pervert sitting there on his lunch break just sifting through all my sexts. It's that these programs are clearly automated, and Google and the NSA have both confirmed as much regarding their respective programs. So you have a massive database with crawlers set to ping every time certain keywords appear within n number of spaces of each other. In order for the guy who runs the software to determine if it's a false positive, he then must logically read the actual email or text. Irrespective of whether or not the person who sent or received it has ever been accused or suspected of anything. That reading would appear to be either a violation of privacy, or in the case of the FBI and NSA, an unreasonable search and seizure.


I suppose we would have to agree on something eventually.  I'll drink to that.
 
2013-08-14 01:52:53 AM

OgreMagi: PsiChick: wee: It's goddam EMAIL.  It was NEVER private!  It's the high tech equivalent of writing on a bathroom wall for fark's sake...

Uh, pretty sure electronic MAIL was supposed to be the high tech equivalent of, well...mail.

Yes.  And there have been tricks to open old fashioned envelopes to read mail since the first envelope was invented.  And before that there were tricks to open a parchment with an official seal without breaking the seal.  With email you have even less security.  Every single relay the email goes through can simply forward a copy, no envelope to steam open.  If I had access to your providers mail server, it would take me all of five minutes to set that up.


Just because there's methods to pry open your house's front door does not change the expectation of its status, either.  The expectation is that people who do have access to that mail server are not going to do that, any competent admin isn't going to do that unless there's the law involved or in the case of corporate email some sort of investigation (because business email is not expected to be private).  A lot of pseudo nerds really need to learn the value of the following term:  Just because you can, doesn't always mean you should.
 
2013-08-14 01:53:28 AM

dudemanbro: Bomb terrorism bomb backpack pressure cooker yeehaw. Oh, I forgot allahu akbar. I'm getting tired of this shiat.


After I searched for pressure cookers on the Amazon, I started getting ads for full figured bras on the youtube.
 
2013-08-14 01:53:43 AM

sethen320: So...google privacy concerns are in the news again...
(*yawn*)
...and some people are surprised.

Ok, lets go over this one more time.  If you are receiving a product or service and not paying for it, you are the profit.  It's really not that hard.  You make the deal with google to get free email, search results, voice mail, and whatever else they offer in exchange for them mining your exchanges over their network to serve up ads.  Nothing's free.  All of those servers don't get maintained out of charity.


And on that note, I would like to hear if they believe their position also applies to their paid enterprise services.
 
2013-08-14 01:56:21 AM
The company argued in its that "all users of email must necessarily expect that their emails will be subject to automated processing."

Yup. and everyone with a spam folder should know this already.

another nonstory.
 
2013-08-14 01:58:00 AM
I think that if you care about an email you are sending ... then encrypt it.

I remember back in the day PGP was pretty darn secure. These days probably not as much but will do just fine for you weiner and spitzer knock-offs
 
2013-08-14 02:00:00 AM
It's pretty clearly spelled out in the TOS when you sign up that all of your email in Gmail will be automatically scanned.

So basically, anyone who had an expectation of privacy in Gmail is too retarded to be legally allowed to file a lawsuit.
 
2013-08-14 02:00:35 AM
There's a vast difference between a company which you are voluntarily giving your mail to being able to read it, and the government, who you do not consent to having your mail, reading it.  A company doesn't have the power to seize your possessions, imprison you, or kill you.  Because the government has those powers, and more, it is critically important that its powers are checked.

And this doesn't directly affect 99% of people, but the problem is when the government is reading the email of political dissidents, or of groups they don't like, or of powerful people.  In the past, FBI agents would intercept private messages from congressmen, and then make a visit to let them know their secrets were safe.  Of course, the underlying meaning here was they were safe as long as the congressmen supported the FBI.

Power corrupts.  The government needs less power.
 
2013-08-14 02:01:18 AM

China White Tea: sethen320: So...google privacy concerns are in the news again...
(*yawn*)
...and some people are surprised.

Ok, lets go over this one more time.  If you are receiving a product or service and not paying for it, you are the profit.  It's really not that hard.  You make the deal with google to get free email, search results, voice mail, and whatever else they offer in exchange for them mining your exchanges over their network to serve up ads.  Nothing's free.  All of those servers don't get maintained out of charity.

And on that note, I would like to hear if they believe their position also applies to their paid enterprise services.


If it's paid its not free.  If they're still sifting through everything when you're on paid services then that's farked up.  Unfortunately nothing surprises me anymore though.  Every company seems to be trying to get away with whatever they can at this point.  And everyone is fine with it.
 
2013-08-14 02:01:38 AM

sethen320: So...google privacy concerns are in the news again...
(*yawn*)
...and some people are surprised.

Ok, lets go over this one more time.  If you are receiving a product or service and not paying for it, you are the profit.  It's really not that hard.  You make the deal with google to get free email, search results, voice mail, and whatever else they offer in exchange for them mining your exchanges over their network to serve up ads.  Nothing's free.  All of those servers don't get maintained out of charity.


It's not that we're suprised.  It's that we don't think that is OK and want to make that known.  Also, there are many who honestly don't realize that, and are legitimately suprised when they're told that Gmail can scan every email you send.

It's not OK to simply roll over and say "Well shucks, guess that's just how it is" and give up any concept of privacy in any part of our lives.  If nobody pushes back, then Google gets to keep doing it without even having to make an argument.  Better to make them claw for every last bloody inch in the war on privacy.  That goes for Google, the NSA, and any other group who says "You shouldn't expect privacy in (insert any place but a public street corner or equivalent)".
 
2013-08-14 02:02:46 AM
So I shouldn't be sending emails about how I want to serve OBAMA some ball bearings from my pressure cooker because that Muslim is putting my sovereign citizen friends in jail? Does anyone know if the White House prefers the small pox, radioactive, or anthrax ball bearings?
 
2013-08-14 02:02:57 AM
Google has become one of the most transparent and nosey search engine programs on the Internet. It's for those reasons that I've switched to using mainly other search providers -- most of which I've discovered, aren't hacked as thoroughly as Google by those businesses who guarantee your site a web presence.

They fill your site with key words, designed to trigger Google, which is why you can be looking for BBQ sauce and wind up with 206 links to porn and 17 to those third rate 'local' search engines.

Plus, if you do look for porn, Google requires you to put 'porn' after the search word.

I've found better success with a couple of other search engines that don't clutter my results with tons of inappropriate links. I don't use G-mail. Actually, I don't use any Google perks.
 
2013-08-14 02:03:05 AM
People see ads when using GMail? I must be doing it wrong.
 
2013-08-14 02:04:10 AM
It's free you farking numbskulls. Of course they're datamining to target advertisments.
 
2013-08-14 02:04:54 AM
Well, so much for not being evil.
 
2013-08-14 02:05:28 AM
I am against Genetically Modified mail.
 
2013-08-14 02:05:36 AM
Oh, I found it! Here you go, munitions-grade, once-banned, free cryptography...

http://www.pgpi.org/
 
2013-08-14 02:07:03 AM
Rik01:

They fill your site with key words, designed to trigger Google, which is why you can be looking for BBQ sauce and wind up with 206 links to porn and 17 to those third rate 'local' search engines.


I uh... don't think this has ever happened to me.  I'm pretty disdainful of a lot of what they do, but their search engine is consistently right on the money.  In the rare event that I can't find what I'm looking for, it's because I'm looking for something particularly obscure, and other search engines fare no better.
 
2013-08-14 02:08:50 AM

xellas84: sethen320: So...google privacy concerns are in the news again...
(*yawn*)
...and some people are surprised.

Ok, lets go over this one more time.  If you are receiving a product or service and not paying for it, you are the profit.  It's really not that hard.  You make the deal with google to get free email, search results, voice mail, and whatever else they offer in exchange for them mining your exchanges over their network to serve up ads.  Nothing's free.  All of those servers don't get maintained out of charity.

It's not that we're suprised.  It's that we don't think that is OK and want to make that known.  Also, there are many who honestly don't realize that, and are legitimately suprised when they're told that Gmail can scan every email you send.

It's not OK to simply roll over and say "Well shucks, guess that's just how it is" and give up any concept of privacy in any part of our lives.  If nobody pushes back, then Google gets to keep doing it without even having to make an argument.  Better to make them claw for every last bloody inch in the war on privacy.  That goes for Google, the NSA, and any other group who says "You shouldn't expect privacy in (insert any place but a public street corner or equivalent)".


Um...it's not "rolling over".  Someone has to pay to maintain half (don't go wiki it, I'm not citing anything in particular) of the email in the world.  If you're not paying and I'm not paying...then someone is.  I'm pretty sure that it's in the TOS that this happens.  You're not getting screwed by the man, you opened your mouth and told him to insert.  It's not the fault of someone else that you didn't bother to read the disclaimer.  You get shiat for free, you give something.  Don't like it?  Private email services can be had for ~$5/month, as they always have been.  Google is not the government, they do not have any duty to provide us with a public service.  They make money.  It's a company.
 
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