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(CBS Sports)   Pete Rose: "I should have picked drugs"   (cbssports.com) divider line 154
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1590 clicks; posted to Sports » on 13 Aug 2013 at 9:24 AM (50 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



154 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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2013-08-13 03:13:57 AM
It's not an apples-to-apples comparison.  Gambling is not the same as PED's.  Whether PED's actually give someone an advantage over another on the field of play is debatable.  What is not debatable is the ethics of a manager or player wagering money on the outcome of games -especially games they are participating in.

(Pete Rose says he never bet on his team -that may be true but who knows except his bookie?)
 
2013-08-13 07:58:21 AM
No shiat.  he's be in the hall of fame by now, praised as a hero by most.
 
2013-08-13 08:20:53 AM

ManateeGag: No shiat.  he's be in the hall of fame by now, praised as a hero by most.


Pete Rose isn't banned for gambling; he's banned for being an insufferable, self-entitled prick.  That isn't to say he wasn't a great ball player, but his narcissism has alienated the people who get to make the "ban / no-ban" decision.
 
2013-08-13 08:57:43 AM
He should have picked a better barber.
 
2013-08-13 09:10:49 AM
Did Pete ever bet against his team?

Then what's the problem exactly?  Besides the 1919 Black Sox and a bunch of panty twisters with their shorts in knots?
 
2013-08-13 09:17:30 AM

ManateeGag: No shiat.  he's be in the hall of fame by now, praised as a hero by most.


Seattle recently honored Ken Griffey Jr at a home game against the Brewers. He sat down with the Milwaukee announcers for an inning. At one point they flashed the top 6 leaders in Home Runs. He was asked about how he felt to be in that company:

1 Bonds
2. Aaron
3. Ruth
4. Mays
5. Rodruiguez
6. Griffey Jr

He paused. "Numbers 2, 3 and 4" he replied and commented on how great they were. Silence ensued. He left and later they talked of his not-so-silent indictment of Bonds and Rodruiguez.
 
2013-08-13 09:27:29 AM

Marcus Aurelius: Did Pete ever bet against his team?

Then what's the problem exactly?  Besides the 1919 Black Sox and a bunch of panty twisters with their shorts in knots?


Betting on baseball is a one-year ban. Betting on a game involving your team, to win or lose, is a lifetime ban.
 
2013-08-13 09:28:06 AM

Marcus Aurelius: Did Pete ever bet against his team?

Then what's the problem exactly?


A manager doesn't need to be betting against his team, or even on the game he's managing, in order to corrupt the decisions he makes.
 
2013-08-13 09:30:04 AM

ElwoodCuse: Marcus Aurelius: Did Pete ever bet against his team?

Then what's the problem exactly?  Besides the 1919 Black Sox and a bunch of panty twisters with their shorts in knots?

Betting on baseball is a one-year ban. Betting on a game involving your team, to win or lose, is a lifetime ban.


How is betting on your team to WIN a problem?  Shouldn't you be trying to win anyway?  I don't see how this conflicts with your interests.  Now, betting on your team to lose?  Ya, you betcha, that's a lifetime ban.
 
2013-08-13 09:31:25 AM
It's 20-goddamn-13 and people still need to be told that betting on your sport is bad. We have failed as a society
 
2013-08-13 09:34:30 AM

Lucky LaRue: That isn't to say he wasn't a great ball player, but his narcissism has alienated the people who get to make the "ban / no-ban" decision.


If they ever make time travel possible, after shiatting on Hitler a few times and punching Gavrilo Princip in the face, I'd like to get Bart Giamatti some heart surgery so that we'd know if Pete's "But Bart said they'd revisit the 'lifetime-y-ness' of the ban after a year!" is true.

Certainly, Selig was no fan of Rose's, and he wasn't going to make one of his first actions (or one of the most high-profile decision this side of an All-Star Game tie) an undoing of Giamatti's last.

// or I could bring a copy of "My Prison Without Bars" for him in 1970
 
2013-08-13 09:36:23 AM

remus: How is betting on your team to WIN a problem?


Because it affects the way you manage a game, possibly putting your players at risk.
 
2013-08-13 09:37:19 AM

remus: ElwoodCuse: Marcus Aurelius: Did Pete ever bet against his team?

Then what's the problem exactly?  Besides the 1919 Black Sox and a bunch of panty twisters with their shorts in knots?

Betting on baseball is a one-year ban. Betting on a game involving your team, to win or lose, is a lifetime ban.

How is betting on your team to WIN a problem?  Shouldn't you be trying to win anyway?  I don't see how this conflicts with your interests.  Now, betting on your team to lose?  Ya, you betcha, that's a lifetime ban.


Ask Mario Soto. Google "Mario Soto and Pete Rose". Report back with your findings.

As a player/manager, you bet on the game and you ruin the integrity of the game, putting the outcomes on par with professional wrestling. Like was said earlier, PEDs = bad. Betting on the game = worse.
 
2013-08-13 09:37:51 AM

Nadie_AZ: ManateeGag: No shiat.  he's be in the hall of fame by now, praised as a hero by most.

Seattle recently honored Ken Griffey Jr at a home game against the Brewers. He sat down with the Milwaukee announcers for an inning. At one point they flashed the top 6 leaders in Home Runs. He was asked about how he felt to be in that company:

1 Bonds
2. Aaron
3. Ruth
4. Mays
5. Rodruiguez
6. Griffey Jr

He paused. "Numbers 2, 3 and 4" he replied and commented on how great they were. Silence ensued. He left and later they talked of his not-so-silent indictment of Bonds and Rodruiguez.


Which is ironic since 2, 3 and 4 did PEDs as well. Amphetamines are also performance enhancing drugs
 
2013-08-13 09:37:59 AM
Yeah, right - like he wasn't on greenies just like every other player in the 60s and 70s.
 
2013-08-13 09:38:02 AM

sigdiamond2000: remus: How is betting on your team to WIN a problem?

Because it affects the way you manage a game, possibly putting your players at risk.


How so?
 
2013-08-13 09:38:25 AM

machoprogrammer: Nadie_AZ: ManateeGag: No shiat.  he's be in the hall of fame by now, praised as a hero by most.

Seattle recently honored Ken Griffey Jr at a home game against the Brewers. He sat down with the Milwaukee announcers for an inning. At one point they flashed the top 6 leaders in Home Runs. He was asked about how he felt to be in that company:

1 Bonds
2. Aaron
3. Ruth
4. Mays
5. Rodruiguez
6. Griffey Jr

He paused. "Numbers 2, 3 and 4" he replied and commented on how great they were. Silence ensued. He left and later they talked of his not-so-silent indictment of Bonds and Rodruiguez.

Which is ironic since 2, 3 and 4 did PEDs as well. Amphetamines are also performance enhancing drugs


I would imagine #3 was doing hotdogs and whiskey ...
 
2013-08-13 09:40:01 AM

machoprogrammer: Amphetamines are also performance enhancing drugs


And many players used to take them, until the drug testers came along and made everything about them.
 
2013-08-13 09:42:45 AM

Marcus Aurelius: sigdiamond2000: remus: How is betting on your team to WIN a problem?

Because it affects the way you manage a game, possibly putting your players at risk.

How so?


Miguel Cabrera injures his hip flexor in the bottom of the 8th fielding a ground ball in a tie game. Leyland has 10 large on the game, so instead of taking Cabrera out, he makes him bat in the top of the 9th. Cabrera proceeds to tear his hip flexor trying to beat out a ground ball and misses the rest of the season.

There are an infinite amount of scenarios where betting on your own team to win can actually hurt your team, to say nothing about "integrity of the game" issues.
 
2013-08-13 09:47:02 AM

sigdiamond2000: Marcus Aurelius: sigdiamond2000: remus: How is betting on your team to WIN a problem?

Because it affects the way you manage a game, possibly putting your players at risk.

How so?

Miguel Cabrera injures his hip flexor in the bottom of the 8th fielding a ground ball in a tie game. Leyland has 10 large on the game, so instead of taking Cabrera out, he makes him bat in the top of the 9th. Cabrera proceeds to tear his hip flexor trying to beat out a ground ball and misses the rest of the season.

There are an infinite amount of scenarios where betting on your own team to win can actually hurt your team, to say nothing about "integrity of the game" issues.


OK, I'll admit there may be a very few select instances where a manager with a bet will make different decisions from a manager that hasn't placed a bet.

Let's make believe the same scenario you just presented happens during the wild card playoff.  In that case, Jim Leland is going to make Cabrera go to bat.  That means that the wild card playoff is just as bad as betting on baseball.
 
2013-08-13 09:47:55 AM

Nadie_AZ: machoprogrammer: Nadie_AZ: ManateeGag: No shiat.  he's be in the hall of fame by now, praised as a hero by most.

Seattle recently honored Ken Griffey Jr at a home game against the Brewers. He sat down with the Milwaukee announcers for an inning. At one point they flashed the top 6 leaders in Home Runs. He was asked about how he felt to be in that company:

1 Bonds
2. Aaron
3. Ruth
4. Mays
5. Rodruiguez
6. Griffey Jr

He paused. "Numbers 2, 3 and 4" he replied and commented on how great they were. Silence ensued. He left and later they talked of his not-so-silent indictment of Bonds and Rodruiguez.

Which is ironic since 2, 3 and 4 did PEDs as well. Amphetamines are also performance enhancing drugs

I would imagine #3 was doing hotdogs and whiskey ...


And cocaine. Which would help with energy.
 
2013-08-13 09:50:41 AM

sigdiamond2000: Marcus Aurelius: Did Pete ever bet against his team?

Then what's the problem exactly?

A manager doesn't need to be betting against his team, or even on the game he's managing, in order to corrupt the decisions he makes.


A big part of me doubts/hopes that Rose never bet on/against his own team.  But I can see how his managerial decisions could affect his bets.

Pete's Reds are playing the Dodgers today and tomorrow they play the Pirates. Pete has money down on the Dodgers to lose against the Pirates in the first game.  So during today's game Pete orders someone to take out the Dodgers hottest hitter either with a hard slide/collision or hit by pitch.  Something like that to hobble the Dodgers for a game or two.

I grew up a Red's fan and Charlie Hustle and Johnny Beach were childhood sports heroes of mine but the older I get the more I have to agree with the lifetime ban and the ban from the HOF.  I do feel Shoeless Joe should get in as I truly don't believe he was bright enough to understand exactly what he was being manipulated into doing. 

I would also like to see any of the players who are known to have used PED over the years (90's up) to have any baseball record struck down and no HOF.
 
2013-08-13 09:51:27 AM
They haven't given too many gamblers a second chances in the world of baseball.

Perhaps that is because since 1919 every ball payer has been told repeatedly what the penalty is for betting on baseball.

I'm uncertain if the people who, after all this time, ask how him betting on the Reds to win is a bad thing truly don't understand or are being willfully obtuse.

Rose has $10,000 on today's game, nothing on tomorrow's. Do you honestly think he's not going to take risks to win today's game that he wouldn't otherwise?

No matter what effects the other behaviors have, betting (for or against your own team) is the only activity that can create incentives to lose or to prefer winning this game rather than that game. That is why MLB treats it as harshly as it does.
 
2013-08-13 09:53:53 AM

Waldo Pepper: Pete's Reds are playing the Dodgers today and tomorrow they play the Pirates. Pete has money down on the Dodgers to lose against the Pirates in the first game. So during today's game Pete orders someone to take out the Dodgers hottest hitter either with a hard slide/collision or hit by pitch. Something like that to hobble the Dodgers for a game or two


Now that's a valid reason to ban betting.
 
2013-08-13 09:57:50 AM

Marcus Aurelius: Let's make believe the same scenario you just presented happens during the wild card playoff. In that case, Jim Leland is going to make Cabrera go to bat. That means that the wild card playoff is just as bad as betting on baseball.


Managers don't manage regular season games like they manage playoff games - ESPECIALLY win or go home playoff games. That is, unless they have money on the regular season game
 
2013-08-13 10:00:16 AM

machoprogrammer: Nadie_AZ: ManateeGag: No shiat.  he's be in the hall of fame by now, praised as a hero by most.

Seattle recently honored Ken Griffey Jr at a home game against the Brewers. He sat down with the Milwaukee announcers for an inning. At one point they flashed the top 6 leaders in Home Runs. He was asked about how he felt to be in that company:

1 Bonds
2. Aaron
3. Ruth
4. Mays
5. Rodruiguez
6. Griffey Jr

He paused. "Numbers 2, 3 and 4" he replied and commented on how great they were. Silence ensued. He left and later they talked of his not-so-silent indictment of Bonds and Rodruiguez.

Which is ironic since 2, 3 and 4 did PEDs as well. Amphetamines are also performance enhancing drugs


Really? We're going to equate greenies with the mad-scientist lab experiment that was late 90's/early 00's Barry Bonds? If there's no level of distinction then why not just declare coffee and cigs PED's and burn Cooperstown to the ground?
 
2013-08-13 10:01:43 AM
There is a difference between managing that way in an elimination game at the end of the season or during the playoffs, and a random game in July.

If you are betting on your team, you fail to recognize the difference--every game you bet on is "must-win" for you.

/On a side note, I hate participating in threads on my iPad.
//couldn't quote and then type.
 
2013-08-13 10:03:06 AM

Marcus Aurelius: sigdiamond2000: Marcus Aurelius: sigdiamond2000: remus: How is betting on your team to WIN a problem?

Because it affects the way you manage a game, possibly putting your players at risk.

How so?

Miguel Cabrera injures his hip flexor in the bottom of the 8th fielding a ground ball in a tie game. Leyland has 10 large on the game, so instead of taking Cabrera out, he makes him bat in the top of the 9th. Cabrera proceeds to tear his hip flexor trying to beat out a ground ball and misses the rest of the season.

There are an infinite amount of scenarios where betting on your own team to win can actually hurt your team, to say nothing about "integrity of the game" issues.

OK, I'll admit there may be a very few select instances where a manager with a bet will make different decisions from a manager that hasn't placed a bet.

Let's make believe the same scenario you just presented happens during the wild card playoff.  In that case, Jim Leland is going to make Cabrera go to bat.  That means that the wild card playoff is just as bad as betting on baseball.


WTF. A playoff game is more consequential and can dramatically affect whether or not a team will advance towards the World Series, ergo a manager might think it should commensurate with more risks. A regular season game, especially where a team is so far ahead in the pennant race or so far behind, would not merit that same level of risk-taking, unless the manager has a financial stake in its otcome.
 
2013-08-13 10:10:22 AM

jayhawk88: machoprogrammer: Nadie_AZ: ManateeGag: No shiat.  he's be in the hall of fame by now, praised as a hero by most.

Seattle recently honored Ken Griffey Jr at a home game against the Brewers. He sat down with the Milwaukee announcers for an inning. At one point they flashed the top 6 leaders in Home Runs. He was asked about how he felt to be in that company:

1 Bonds
2. Aaron
3. Ruth
4. Mays
5. Rodruiguez
6. Griffey Jr

He paused. "Numbers 2, 3 and 4" he replied and commented on how great they were. Silence ensued. He left and later they talked of his not-so-silent indictment of Bonds and Rodruiguez.

Which is ironic since 2, 3 and 4 did PEDs as well. Amphetamines are also performance enhancing drugs

Really? We're going to equate greenies with the mad-scientist lab experiment that was late 90's/early 00's Barry Bonds? If there's no level of distinction then why not just declare coffee and cigs PED's and burn Cooperstown to the ground?


You're right, there shouldn't be a level of distinction because the hall is already full of players who "cheated" in one way or another.
 
2013-08-13 10:17:31 AM
Meanwhile, this guy is still in baseball. Such bullsh*t.

www3.pictures.zimbio.com
 
2013-08-13 10:19:53 AM

jayhawk88: machoprogrammer: Nadie_AZ: ManateeGag: No shiat.  he's be in the hall of fame by now, praised as a hero by most.

Seattle recently honored Ken Griffey Jr at a home game against the Brewers. He sat down with the Milwaukee announcers for an inning. At one point they flashed the top 6 leaders in Home Runs. He was asked about how he felt to be in that company:

1 Bonds
2. Aaron
3. Ruth
4. Mays
5. Rodruiguez
6. Griffey Jr

He paused. "Numbers 2, 3 and 4" he replied and commented on how great they were. Silence ensued. He left and later they talked of his not-so-silent indictment of Bonds and Rodruiguez.

Which is ironic since 2, 3 and 4 did PEDs as well. Amphetamines are also performance enhancing drugs

Really? We're going to equate greenies with the mad-scientist lab experiment that was late 90's/early 00's Barry Bonds? If there's no level of distinction then why not just declare coffee and cigs PED's and burn Cooperstown to the ground?


Stimulants are a gigantic advantage over the course of a long season. Possibly moreso than steroids, particularly with regards to non power metrics. And why is one banned substance ok but others are not? Is Gaylord Perry's spitball cheating? Is a player getting Lasik cheating?
 
2013-08-13 10:24:48 AM

Nadie_AZ: Seattle recently honored Ken Griffey Jr at a home game against the Brewers. He sat down with the Milwaukee announcers for an inning. At one point they flashed the top 6 leaders in Home Runs. He was asked about how he felt to be in that company:

1 Bonds
2. Aaron
3. Ruth
4. Mays
5. Rodruiguez
6. Griffey Jr

He paused. "Numbers 2, 3 and 4" he replied and commented on how great they were. Silence ensued. He left and later they talked of his not-so-silent indictment of Bonds and Rodruiguez.


And, immediately after leaving, Griffey injured his hamstring and was unable to offer commentary until mid 2014.

/Reds fan
/Griffey Jr. belongs in the HOF...as the biggest bust in the history of baseball.
 
2013-08-13 10:26:00 AM

machoprogrammer: Nadie_AZ: machoprogrammer: Nadie_AZ: ManateeGag: No shiat.  he's be in the hall of fame by now, praised as a hero by most.

Seattle recently honored Ken Griffey Jr at a home game against the Brewers. He sat down with the Milwaukee announcers for an inning. At one point they flashed the top 6 leaders in Home Runs. He was asked about how he felt to be in that company:

1 Bonds
2. Aaron
3. Ruth
4. Mays
5. Rodruiguez
6. Griffey Jr

He paused. "Numbers 2, 3 and 4" he replied and commented on how great they were. Silence ensued. He left and later they talked of his not-so-silent indictment of Bonds and Rodruiguez.

Which is ironic since 2, 3 and 4 did PEDs as well. Amphetamines are also performance enhancing drugs

I would imagine #3 was doing hotdogs and whiskey ...

And cocaine. Which would help with energy.


And only against white people. Which would help with having sub-par competition.
 
2013-08-13 10:27:43 AM

sigdiamond2000: He should have picked a better barber.


Now that's farking funny. +1 to you good sir/madam.

sigdiamond2000: Marcus Aurelius: sigdiamond2000: remus: How is betting on your team to WIN a problem?

Because it affects the way you manage a game, possibly putting your players at risk.

How so?

Miguel Cabrera injures his hip flexor in the bottom of the 8th fielding a ground ball in a tie game. Leyland has 10 large on the game, so instead of taking Cabrera out, he makes him bat in the top of the 9th. Cabrera proceeds to tear his hip flexor trying to beat out a ground ball and misses the rest of the season.

There are an infinite amount of scenarios where betting on your own team to win can actually hurt your team, to say nothing about "integrity of the game" issues.


A perfect example except your player choice. Cabrera never tries to leg out a ground ball.
 
2013-08-13 10:29:55 AM

EyeballKid: /Reds fan
/Griffey Jr. belongs in the HOF...as the biggest bust in the history of baseball.


..a guy 6th on the all-time homer list is a bust?

Ultimately didn't fulfill his career potential sure, but hardly a bust.
 
2013-08-13 10:30:54 AM

Cubs300: PEDs = bad. Betting on the game = worse.


Becoming freakish hulk-men plagued by bouts of extreme aggression with massacred endocrine systems that will probably never function properly again for the sake of a game, with massively boosted chances for bone fractures and ruptured tendons and things: Not so bad

Betting on a game: Unforgivable, cause potentially, maybe, it could possibly put one of your players at risk.  I checked out that Mario Soto story.

Baseball and its fans are such a weird thing to me, because most people AGREE it isn't fun to watch, its an outing punctuated by some random excitement on occasion.  They treat it like its sacrosanct or something though, which is insane to me.
 
2013-08-13 10:41:23 AM
Yep, Pete Rose got completely screwed. Just put that on the top of the pile of reasons why the HOF is difficult to take seriously.
 
2013-08-13 10:42:45 AM

Super_pope: Baseball and its fans are such a weird thing to me, because most people AGREE it isn't fun to watch, its an outing punctuated by some random excitement on occasion.  They treat it like its sacrosanct or something though, which is insane to me.


Different people like different things. Saying things like "most people AGREE" is confirmation bias.

I love watching baseball. I can appreciate the nuance of every pitch. A lot of people can't or don't.. that's cool. If something I like is not your bag, no skin off my nose. It's the "stop liking what I don't like" crowd that's a pest.

I like football, but I'm nowhere near as passionate about it as baseball, or as much as the average sports Farker seems to be. I played both in HS (pitcher and defensive back) , so I understand the nuance of every down too.. I just don't care as much.
 
2013-08-13 10:47:13 AM

The Bestest: ..a guy 6th on the all-time homer list is a bust?

Ultimately didn't fulfill his career potential sure, but hardly a bust.


He was a great player for 10 years.
He played for 20 years.
You can't act like the shiat half of his career didn't happen, unless the HOF has sections for partial careers. Among those inductees could be Will Clark, for those years he was good with the Giants, or Tommy John before the famous surgery, and Mark Fidyrich.

Career BA: .284. Really? That's a Hall of Famer?
 
2013-08-13 10:51:28 AM

machoprogrammer: And why is one banned substance ok but others are not? Is Gaylord Perry's spitball cheating? Is a player getting Lasik cheating?


The answer to this question is probably the same as the answer to the Pete Rose question.
 
2013-08-13 10:52:23 AM

Rex_Banner: It's 20-goddamn-13 and people still need to be told that betting on your sport is bad. We have failed as a society


To be fair, gambling is MUCH more prevalent, and accepted, in today's society than it has ever been before.
 
2013-08-13 10:54:38 AM

Marcus Aurelius: Let's make believe the same scenario you just presented happens during the wild card playoff. In that case, Jim Leland is going to make Cabrera go to bat. That means that the wild card playoff is just as bad as betting on baseball.


I prefer the "Mike Shanahan / Robert Griffin III" example.
 
2013-08-13 10:56:09 AM

EyeballKid: Nadie_AZ: Seattle recently honored Ken Griffey Jr at a home game against the Brewers. He sat down with the Milwaukee announcers for an inning. At one point they flashed the top 6 leaders in Home Runs. He was asked about how he felt to be in that company:

1 Bonds
2. Aaron
3. Ruth
4. Mays
5. Rodruiguez
6. Griffey Jr

He paused. "Numbers 2, 3 and 4" he replied and commented on how great they were. Silence ensued. He left and later they talked of his not-so-silent indictment of Bonds and Rodruiguez.

And, immediately after leaving, Griffey injured his hamstring and was unable to offer commentary until mid 2014.

/Reds fan
/Griffey Jr. belongs in the HOF...as the biggest bust in the history of baseball.


A THOUSAND TIMES THIS!!!!!

I lived in Cincinnati when Mr. Wonderful was brought to the Reds in that "epic" trade. Then GM Jim Bowden was hailed as the greatest GM in Baseball history. It was pretty much guaranteed, in our minds, that we were going to the playoffs and Jr. was going to join McGwire and Sosa in turning the NL Central into Home Run Central.

...then Mr. Wonderful became Mr. Strikeout, and from there became Mr. Disabled List, breaking every bone in his body just from catching a fly ball. (Every season, he was earning frequent flyer miles on that DL bench, let me tell you.)
And that awesome GM Jim Bowden made the boneheaded decision to fire Manager Jack McKeon (who went on to win the World Series with the hapless Florida Marlins) and hired Bob Boone to replace him, turning an NL Central team that was competitive in the Pennant race into a team that was competitive for last place with the Milwaukee Brewers.

/happy the Reds finally turned themselves around.
//figures they'd wait to do it until long after I move away.
 
2013-08-13 10:59:46 AM

EyeballKid: The Bestest: ..a guy 6th on the all-time homer list is a bust?

Ultimately didn't fulfill his career potential sure, but hardly a bust.

He was a great player for 10 years.
He played for 20 years.
You can't act like the shiat half of his career didn't happen, unless the HOF has sections for partial careers. Among those inductees could be Will Clark, for those years he was good with the Giants, or Tommy John before the famous surgery, and Mark Fidyrich.

Career BA: .284. Really? That's a Hall of Famer?


That's better than Reggie Jackson, and by a large margin. If that's all you've got keeping him out, then your argument falls before the first hurdle.
 
2013-08-13 11:00:26 AM

EyeballKid: He was a great player for 10 years.
He played for 20 years.
You can't act like the shiat half of his career didn't happen, unless the HOF has sections for partial careers.


Conversely, you can't ignore the great years either. By your definition, Andruw Jones is also a bust.

Will his hobbled years hurt his HoF considerations? Sure, as they should, but how can you call someone still being considered a "bust"?
 
2013-08-13 11:04:13 AM

Lifeless: That's better than Reggie Jackson, and by a large margin. If that's all you've got keeping him out, then your argument falls before the first hurdle.


Reggie Jackson actually won something on a team once. Big diff.

All the pro-Jr.'s arguments boil down to are "well, he was injured so often he clearly wasn't taken 'roids" and "mah childhood."
 
2013-08-13 11:06:17 AM
Girffey had 600+ HR and an OPS north of .900 for his career. He was also a fantastic center fielder for the first half of his career. He's inner circle Hall of Fame
 
2013-08-13 11:07:47 AM

EyeballKid: The Bestest: ..a guy 6th on the all-time homer list is a bust?

Ultimately didn't fulfill his career potential sure, but hardly a bust.

He was a great player for 10 years.
He played for 20 years.
You can't act like the shiat half of his career didn't happen, unless the HOF has sections for partial careers. Among those inductees could be Will Clark, for those years he was good with the Giants, or Tommy John before the famous surgery, and Mark Fidyrich.

Career BA: .284. Really? That's a Hall of Famer?


Batting average is only one measure of productivity, and it's not a very good one.  Juan Pierre is a career .295 hitter, and he sucks.

Ken Griffey Jr. had ridiculous power, and he was a premiere defender at one of the game's more difficult positions.  He got on base at a .370 clip, which is plenty respectable for a slugger.

He was in the conversation for the best non-Bonds player in baseball for a full decade.  He then got injured, added 5-6 partial years of decent baseball, and then tacked on 4 years of meh.  That's more than plenty of Hall of Famers accomplish.

By WAR, he's 56th all-time, 34th among position players.  Nearly all of that value was 2005 and earlier, but it's still there.

Better center fielders than Griffey: Mantle, Mays, Cobb, DiMaggio, Speaker.  Throw in Oscar Charleston if the stories are even remotely true.  But he's a clear top-10 all-time CF, and that's more than enough to be Hall-worthy.

For the record, Griffey was a better player than Pete Rose ever was.
 
2013-08-13 11:10:18 AM
From Wiki:

In his autobiography My Prison Without Bars, published by Rodale Press on January 8, 2004, Rose finally admitted publicly to betting on baseball games and other sports while playing for and managing the Reds. He also admitted to betting on Reds games, but said that he never bet against the Reds. He repeated his admissions in an interview on the ABC news program Primetime Thursday. He also said in the book that he hoped his admissions would help end his ban from baseball so that he could reapply for reinstatement.
In March 2007 during an interview on The Dan Patrick Show on ESPN Radio, Rose said, "I bet on my team every night. I didn't bet on my team four nights a week. I bet on my team to win every night because I loved my team, I believed in my team," he said. "I did everything in my power every night to win that game."
John Dowd disputed Rose's contention that he bet on the Reds every night, asserting that Rose did not bet on his team when Mario Soto or Bill Gullickson pitched.However, Dowd's allegations did not match the records contained in his own report. A notebook detailing Rose's daily betting activity shows that Rose did in fact place bets on 5 of the 6 games Soto started in 1987.The lone exception was April 26, 1987, when Rose allegedly placed bets on hockey and basketball games but no baseball games. Those records also show he bet on every game that Gullickson started during the time period which the betting notebook covered.

The criticism of Rose did not diminish after this admission-even some Rose supporters were outraged that Rose would suddenly reverse fifteen years of denials as part of a book publicity tour.  In addition, the timing was called into question-by making his admission just two days after the Baseball Hall of Fame announced its class of 2004 inductees, Rose appeared to be linking himself publicly to the Hall.  Further adding to the debate was the 2004 ESPN made-for-TV movie Hustle, starring Tom Sizemore as Rose, which documents Rose's gambling problem and his subsequent ban from baseball.
 
2013-08-13 11:10:46 AM

chimp_ninja: He was in the conversation for the best non-Bonds player in baseball for a full decade. He then got injured, added 5-6 partial years of decent baseball, and then tacked on 4 years of meh.


5 to 6 partial years of decent baseball? That's a kind way to re-brand "played like shiat and his body gave out after every All-Star break."
 
2013-08-13 11:10:50 AM

EyeballKid: Lifeless: That's better than Reggie Jackson, and by a large margin. If that's all you've got keeping him out, then your argument falls before the first hurdle.

Reggie Jackson actually won something on a team once. Big diff.


I was unaware that we changed the game of baseball to be a one-on-one competition.

Man, Ken Griffey is almost as terrible at baseball as Ted Williams.  That guy sucked so bad he only made the postseason once.
 
2013-08-13 11:14:37 AM
Self-righteous baseball writers need to get over themselves and their PED witchhunt. No one else gives a shiat. Sorry, but baseball records aren't sacred. It's entertainment. It's no better than the WWE and should be treated appropriately.
 
2013-08-13 11:14:56 AM

EyeballKid: chimp_ninja: He was in the conversation for the best non-Bonds player in baseball for a full decade. He then got injured, added 5-6 partial years of decent baseball, and then tacked on 4 years of meh.

5 to 6 partial years of decent baseball? That's a kind way to re-brand "played like shiat and his body gave out after every All-Star break."


From 2001-2005, he hit .277/.363/.533, averaging ~90 games per season.  That's much more than "decent baseball" for the parts of seasons he was healthy enough to play in, except the Reds kept him in CF when he should have moved to RF, and he was defensively overmatched.
 
2013-08-13 11:17:19 AM
I can't believe there's actually a legitimate discussion on Ken Griffey Jr. not being in the hall of fame.
You baseball fans have no idea what you want.
 
2013-08-13 11:17:28 AM

Marcus Aurelius: Did Pete ever bet against his team?

Then what's the problem exactly?  Besides the 1919 Black Sox and a bunch of panty twisters with their shorts in knots?


The problem is that for the better part of 30 years he walked past a sign in the clubhouse that said 'If you bet on baseball, you will be banned for life'(all the clubhouses have them) and then he bet on baseball. Then he was shocked that he was banned or life.
 
2013-08-13 11:19:14 AM

falcon176: I can't believe there's actually a legitimate discussion on Ken Griffey Jr. not being in the hall of fame.
You baseball fans have no idea what you want.


I didn't realize the one butthurt fan of a team he injured himself with was a BBWAA voter.

/But he only hit .284!
 
2013-08-13 11:20:58 AM

The Bestest: Will his hobbled years hurt his HoF considerations? Sure, as they should, but how can you call someone still being considered a "bust"?


I doubt it.  If Pete Rose hadn't gambled, he would have no problem getting in on the first ballot, and he tacked on a ton of hobbled years.  Heck, as a player-manager, he was putting himself into games at his team's expense, so he had even less excuse.

Ditto Andruw Jones, who I also think should make the Hall, but I admit is a much more borderline call than Griffey.  Defense tends to be largely unappreciated, but Jones has a "Brooks Robinson" case, and he was a better overall player than some of the other glove-first inductees (Maranville, Mazeroski, etc.).
 
2013-08-13 11:21:59 AM

Lifeless: falcon176: I can't believe there's actually a legitimate discussion on Ken Griffey Jr. not being in the hall of fame.
You baseball fans have no idea what you want.

I didn't realize the one butthurt fan of a team he injured himself with was a BBWAA voter.

/But he only hit .284!


Based on last years vote he's not only a BBWAA voter, but he's one of the smarter and less butthurt ones
 
2013-08-13 11:23:55 AM

falcon176: I can't believe there's actually a legitimate discussion on Ken Griffey Jr. not being in the hall of fame.
You baseball fans have no idea what you want.


They want to go back in time to the good old days before they let the negros in
 
2013-08-13 11:24:55 AM

falcon176: I can't believe there's actually a legitimate discussion on Ken Griffey Jr. not being in the hall of fame.
You baseball fans have no idea what you want.


There's no legitimate discussion.  It's just EyeballKid.

He's still trying to figure out how that .276-hitting shortstop from Baltimore made it in.  Or that .267-hitting catcher from Cincinnati.  This one guy even got into the HoR by only hitting .279 Rickeys, which is 5 Rickeys lower than Griffey.
 
2013-08-13 11:26:28 AM

chimp_ninja: This one guy even got into the HoR by only hitting .279 Rickeys, which is 5 Rickeys lower than Griffey.


I thought the Rickey was a measure of total bases, not average.
 
2013-08-13 11:28:11 AM
chimp_ninja:

There's no legitimate discussion.  It's just EyeballKid.

He's still trying to figure out how that .276-hitting shortstop from Baltimore made it in.  Or that .267-hitting catcher from Cincinnati.  This one guy even got into the HoR by only hitting .279 Rickeys, which is 5 Rickeys lower than Griffey.


Unlike Ken Griffey Jr., who was a consistently good player on commercials and that Super Nintendo game, those players were capable of playing full seasons, sometimes one right after the other. A real head-scratcher, I know.
 
2013-08-13 11:29:11 AM
Pete Rose was my boyhood hero.  My mom used a laundry marker on a white tee shirt to make a Pete Rose jersey for me, how cute is that?  Pete deserved to be un-banned and put in the Hall of Fame.

However, this is Pete Rose's corked bat.

img.gawkerassets.com
 
2013-08-13 11:29:29 AM
Fortunately next year's hall of fame idiocy will just be "ok who's the jackass that didn't vote for Maddux"
 
2013-08-13 11:30:06 AM

falcon176: Based on last years vote he's not only a BBWAA voter, but he's one of the smarter and less butthurt ones


Bonds/Clemens tells you all you need to know about known PED users.  Strictly by the numbers, they're among the very best to ever play.  And the vote wasn't close.

But not voting in guys like Trammell, Bagwell, Piazza, Raines, and Edgar was just dumb.  And Kenny Lofton falling off the ballot entirely in his first year was shameful.  He's incredibly underappreciated.  I could see him not getting in, but he should have been given more time and consideration.
 
2013-08-13 11:30:49 AM
browneye: In his autobiography My Prison Without Bars, published by Rodale Press on January 8, 2004

He should be banned just for that book. That was the worst thing I have read.
 
2013-08-13 11:31:10 AM

EyeballKid: Lifeless: That's better than Reggie Jackson, and by a large margin. If that's all you've got keeping him out, then your argument falls before the first hurdle.

Reggie Jackson actually won something on a team once. Big diff.

All the pro-Jr.'s arguments boil down to are "well, he was injured so often he clearly wasn't taken 'roids" and "mah childhood."


No. They boil down to the fact that his career numbers show he was one of best power hitters ever, while also being an excellent defender. Batting average doesn't have much to do with how voters judge power hitters. And, in Jr.'s case the argument for the HOF isn't even a particularly tough one.

If you had a career parallel Griffey's and you lastest 22 years -- many cut short by injuries -- hitting .256, with an OBP of .376, slugging .503 and mashing about 26 home runs a year (573 total) with decent defense, you're most likely gonna end up a hall of famer eventually unless you have any hint of PED use -- even if you don't win a world series. You just had Harmon Killebrew's career, by the way.

Jr.'s numbers are better across the board.
 
2013-08-13 11:31:50 AM

EyeballKid: Unlike Ken Griffey Jr., who was a consistently good player on commercials and that Super Nintendo game, those players were capable of playing full seasons, sometimes one right after the other. A real head-scratcher, I know.


Sheesh, if Nick Johnson ever played for the Reds, you'd be comparing him to Hitler.
 
2013-08-13 11:33:13 AM

EyeballKid: The Bestest: ..a guy 6th on the all-time homer list is a bust?

Ultimately didn't fulfill his career potential sure, but hardly a bust.

He was a great player for 10 years.
He played for 20 years.
You can't act like the shiat half of his career didn't happen, unless the HOF has sections for partial careers. Among those inductees could be Will Clark, for those years he was good with the Giants, or Tommy John before the famous surgery, and Mark Fidyrich.

Career BA: .284. Really? That's a Hall of Famer?


8/10.
 
2013-08-13 11:33:59 AM

Lucky LaRue: Pete Rose isn't banned for gambling; he's banned for being an insufferable, self-entitled prick.  That isn't to say he wasn't a great ball player, but his narcissism has alienated the people who get to make the "ban / no-ban" decision.


Barry Bonds wasn't? A-Rod isn't? If personality was a reason for banning, who wouldn't be banned?

The difference between Rose's deeds and the ones listed is gambling throws a shadow of fixing over the game. Whereas juicing to the point of increasing your performances puts butts in the seat and, make of this what you will, beating your wife doesn't affect the game so long as it isn't a "serious" beating.
 
2013-08-13 11:36:50 AM

The Bestest: chimp_ninja: This one guy even got into the HoR by only hitting .279 Rickeys, which is 5 Rickeys lower than Griffey.

 
I thought the Rickey was a measure of total bases, not average.

I have it on good horrible authority that batting average is the only way to judge a player.  Maybe World Series wins, but then I can't tell if Ted Williams is awesome or horrible.
 
2013-08-13 11:38:55 AM

chimp_ninja: The Bestest: chimp_ninja: This one guy even got into the HoR by only hitting .279 Rickeys, which is 5 Rickeys lower than Griffey.
 
I thought the Rickey was a measure of total bases, not average.

I have it on good horrible authority that batting average is the only way to judge a player.  Maybe World Series wins, but then I can't tell if Ted Williams is awesome or horrible.


Also getting injured but only in non-consecutive years.  So we have to take Joe Morgan out of the Hall and replace him with Jeff Blauser.
 
2013-08-13 11:39:01 AM

Frederick: It's not an apples-to-apples comparison.


Correct.

Frederick: Whether PED's actually give someone an advantage over another on the field of play is debatable.


Not really.  It is debatable in only the loosest sense.
 
2013-08-13 11:40:21 AM

Lifeless: chimp_ninja: The Bestest: chimp_ninja: This one guy even got into the HoR by only hitting .279 Rickeys, which is 5 Rickeys lower than Griffey.
 
I thought the Rickey was a measure of total bases, not average.

I have it on good horrible authority that batting average is the only way to judge a player.  Maybe World Series wins, but then I can't tell if Ted Williams is awesome or horrible.

Also getting injured but only in non-consecutive years.  So we have to take Joe Morgan out of the Hall and replace him with Jeff Blauser.


I assume if you were music writers, A-Ha would go into the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame because "Take on Me" was such a good song.
 
2013-08-13 11:40:44 AM

chimp_ninja: The Bestest: Will his hobbled years hurt his HoF considerations? Sure, as they should, but how can you call someone still being considered a "bust"?

I doubt it.  If Pete Rose hadn't gambled, he would have no problem getting in on the first ballot, and he tacked on a ton of hobbled years.  Heck, as a player-manager, he was putting himself into games at his team's expense, so he had even less excuse.

Ditto Andruw Jones, who I also think should make the Hall, but I admit is a much more borderline call than Griffey.  Defense tends to be largely unappreciated, but Jones has a "Brooks Robinson" case, and he was a better overall player than some of the other glove-first inductees (Maranville, Mazeroski, etc.).


Jones really, really should get in.  Advanced metrics say he might be the single best defensive OF of all time.  And he's got 400 something home runs.

But people don't really think of defense and offense at the same time.  You have a few glove-first guys, as you listed.  And then everyone else is bat only.

Also, Jones will inexplicably be punished for being too young.  He came up at 19 and fell apart at 31.  People will say "oh, he was lazy and fat."  Had he come up at 24 and fallen apart at 35, nobody would have a problem with his career.  It's really strange.

Also, fools will say that a guy like Jim Edmonds was a better glove because he made more diving catches.
 
2013-08-13 11:41:25 AM

TeamEd: If you had a career parallel Griffey's and you lastest 22 years -- many cut short by injuries -- hitting .256, with an OBP of .376, slugging .503 and mashing about 26 home runs a year (573 total) with decent defense, you're most likely gonna end up a hall of famer eventually unless you have any hint of PED use -- even if you don't win a world series. You just had Harmon Killebrew's career, by the way.


Yup.  Mize might even be a better comp.  Hard to knock a multi-faceted player for hitting 630 home runs when the HoF has established that one-dimensional guys with 500 qualify.

I'm sure EyeballKid will be in shortly to complain about how that .262-hitting guy from the Cardinals got in.  I mean, he only hit 28 HR.
 
2013-08-13 11:42:04 AM

EyeballKid: Lifeless: chimp_ninja: The Bestest: chimp_ninja: This one guy even got into the HoR by only hitting .279 Rickeys, which is 5 Rickeys lower than Griffey.
 
I thought the Rickey was a measure of total bases, not average.

I have it on good horrible authority that batting average is the only way to judge a player.  Maybe World Series wins, but then I can't tell if Ted Williams is awesome or horrible.

Also getting injured but only in non-consecutive years.  So we have to take Joe Morgan out of the Hall and replace him with Jeff Blauser.

I assume if you were music writers, A-Ha would go into the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame because "Take on Me" was such a good song.


And you'd vote them in because it was a hit.
 
2013-08-13 11:42:27 AM

Slow To Return: machoprogrammer: And why is one banned substance ok but others are not? Is Gaylord Perry's spitball cheating? Is a player getting Lasik cheating?

The answer to this question is probably the same as the answer to the Pete Rose question.


The spitter was legal for what 30 years or so until the 1920's.  

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1080112/
 
2013-08-13 11:44:02 AM

Waldo Pepper: Slow To Return: machoprogrammer: And why is one banned substance ok but others are not? Is Gaylord Perry's spitball cheating? Is a player getting Lasik cheating?

The answer to this question is probably the same as the answer to the Pete Rose question.

The spitter was legal for what 30 years or so until the 1920's.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1080112/


Gaylord Perry pitched from 1962 to 1983.
 
2013-08-13 11:46:15 AM

EyeballKid: I assume if you were music writers, A-Ha would go into the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame because "Take on Me" was such a good song.


Griffey played in 2,671 games.  Exactly 30 players in history have played in more.

He hit 630 HR.  Exactly 5 players have hit more.

12 have more total bases.  33 players have reached base more times.  7 have won more Gold Gloves.

You seem to think he was a flash in the pan.  Were you born in 2005?
 
2013-08-13 11:47:49 AM

EyeballKid: Lifeless: chimp_ninja: The Bestest: chimp_ninja: This one guy even got into the HoR by only hitting .279 Rickeys, which is 5 Rickeys lower than Griffey.
 
I thought the Rickey was a measure of total bases, not average.

I have it on good horrible authority that batting average is the only way to judge a player.  Maybe World Series wins, but then I can't tell if Ted Williams is awesome or horrible.

Also getting injured but only in non-consecutive years.  So we have to take Joe Morgan out of the Hall and replace him with Jeff Blauser.

I assume if you were music writers, A-Ha would go into the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame because "Take on Me" was such a good song.


A-Ha only had one good song. Griffey had way more than one good season.

You're blaming a guy for getting hurt. Often, sure, I agree. But his numbers were STILL amazing. 6th all time in home runs isn't enough for you?

Next thing you know Mario Lemieux shouldn't be in the Hockey HoF because he had his career shortened by injury too.
 
2013-08-13 11:49:38 AM

The Bestest: chimp_ninja: This one guy even got into the HoR by only hitting .279 Rickeys, which is 5 Rickeys lower than Griffey.

I thought the Rickey was a measure of total bases, not average.


The Rickey is actually a measure of pure awesomeness
 
2013-08-13 11:51:00 AM

Waldo Pepper: Slow To Return: machoprogrammer: And why is one banned substance ok but others are not? Is Gaylord Perry's spitball cheating? Is a player getting Lasik cheating?

The answer to this question is probably the same as the answer to the Pete Rose question.

The spitter was legal for what 30 years or so until the 1920's.  

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1080112/


Perry played way after the 20s
 
2013-08-13 11:52:35 AM

The All-Powerful Atheismo: Frederick: It's not an apples-to-apples comparison.

Correct.

Frederick: Whether PED's actually give someone an advantage over another on the field of play is debatable.

Not really.  It is debatable in only the loosest sense.


If steroids make you better at baseball why do so many guys who suck test positive

Hell, what about all the people who take them and never even get to the low minor leagues? Steroids are a health and safety issue, not "Holy shiat they make baseball too easy" issue
 
2013-08-13 11:52:53 AM

chimp_ninja: Griffey played in 2,671 games.  Exactly 30 players in history have played in more.

He hit 630 HR.  Exactly 5 players have hit more.

12 have more total bases.  33 players have reached base more times.  7 have won more Gold Gloves.


He was on the cover of 4 video games. Only A-Rod (5) and Jeter (9) have more.
 
2013-08-13 11:54:07 AM

EyeballKid: Lifeless: chimp_ninja: The Bestest: chimp_ninja: This one guy even got into the HoR by only hitting .279 Rickeys, which is 5 Rickeys lower than Griffey.
 
I thought the Rickey was a measure of total bases, not average.

I have it on good horrible authority that batting average is the only way to judge a player.  Maybe World Series wins, but then I can't tell if Ted Williams is awesome or horrible.

Also getting injured but only in non-consecutive years.  So we have to take Joe Morgan out of the Hall and replace him with Jeff Blauser.

I assume if you were music writers, A-Ha would go into the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame because "Take on Me" was such a good song.


Eh, "The Sun Always Shines On TV" is their magnum opus.

/Also,the Rock & Roll HOF is a bigger joke than even the damned WWE HOF.
 
2013-08-13 12:04:30 PM

chimp_ninja: You seem to think he was a flash in the pan.  Were you born in 2005?


He, like most of the American media and sports public, likely thinks that Seattle is somewhere with a view of Russia and  is surprised they have a team.
 
2013-08-13 12:05:55 PM

The Bestest: [Griffey] was on the cover of 4 video games. Only A-Rod (5) and Jeter (9) have more.


Jeter (2) also leads that pack in Calm Eyes.
 
2013-08-13 12:14:10 PM

ElwoodCuse: If steroids make you better at baseball why do so many guys who suck test positive


Because they can elevate guys from "permanent AA player" to "fringe MLB player", and that's quite an incentive.  The 2012 MLB minimum was $480K/yr.

Hell, what about all the people who take them and never even get to the low minor leagues?

That's the real tragedy.  At least A-Rod has a Scrooge McDuck vault to cover his inevitable medical expenses.  Untold numbers of no-name high-school, college, and low-minors guys use, hoping to break through to the next level, and they get all the health problems and no payoff to help with them.  There are only 725 major-league jobs out there.  (750 if you count Miami.)  Tens of thousands of MLB-wannabe users can't all win.

Steroids are a health and safety issue, not "Holy shiat they make baseball too easy" issue

No one is claiming that any person on the street can take PEDs and sign a MLB contract next year.  The claim is that they allow you to work out longer and build strength more rapidly than if you don't use, and can push "very good" baseball players towards "MLB-ready", or "MLB-ready" to "All-Star" at the expense of their long-term health.
 
2013-08-13 12:18:02 PM

chimp_ninja: At least A-Rod has a Scrooge McDuck vault to cover his inevitable medical expenses.


Even if A-Rod were to be banned tomorrow and his Yankee contract essentially voided, he still gets $40M in Bobby Bonilla style deferred money from the Rangers.
 
2013-08-13 12:18:53 PM
Q: How did kid let his parents know he was going into the Turkish consignment business during his intervention?

A:  Mom and Dad.  I used rugs.
 
2013-08-13 12:19:38 PM

ElwoodCuse: The All-Powerful Atheismo: Frederick: It's not an apples-to-apples comparison.

Correct.

Frederick: Whether PED's actually give someone an advantage over another on the field of play is debatable.

Not really.  It is debatable in only the loosest sense.

If steroids make you better at baseball why do so many guys who suck test positive

Hell, what about all the people who take them and never even get to the low minor leagues? Steroids are a health and safety issue, not "Holy shiat they make baseball too easy" issue


Steroids make you better. If you suck without steriods you will probably suck a little less with them.

There is a much greater incentive for poor players to use steroids as even a little improvement could put them over the top. And that players using them don't make the majors doesn't mean that steroids don't work, it means the guys weren't good enough to make it even with the benefit of steroids.
 
2013-08-13 12:20:31 PM
There are seriously people on this earth who think Ken Griffey Jr. doesn't belong in the Hall of Fame?

Wow.
 
2013-08-13 12:25:15 PM

Earguy: Pete Rose was my boyhood hero.  My mom used a laundry marker on a white tee shirt to make a Pete Rose jersey for me, how cute is that?  Pete deserved to be un-banned and put in the Hall of Fame.

However, this is Pete Rose's corked bat.

[img.gawkerassets.com image 640x480]


pufone.org1.bp.blogspot.com
What he uses to cork it bat, now. And his HoF consolation prize.,
 
2013-08-13 12:26:51 PM

sigdiamond2000: There are seriously people on this earth who think Ken Griffey Jr. doesn't belong in the Hall of Fame?

Wow.


He's no Joe Carter.
 
2013-08-13 12:29:36 PM

Marcus Aurelius: Did Pete ever bet against his team?

Then what's the problem exactly?  Besides the 1919 Black Sox and a bunch of panty twisters with their shorts in knots?


I know there's already been several examples thrown at you, but in general, MLB baseball is probably the ONE sport where a manager is a f*cking idiot to seriously manage every single regular season game to win at all costs, regardless if he bet his house on it or not.

Even the best teams with the best pitchers will have that one game every couple weeks where their starter just has no command on any of his pitches and you find yourself down 10 runs by the 5th inning or even worse. While teams will come back from those deficits from time to time, you have long relievers in your bullpen for a reason. Constantly using up innings on your best set-up relievers time and time again in otherwise hopeless looking situations only burns them out over the season.
 
2013-08-13 12:30:19 PM
Pete Rose: "I should have picked drugs"

And ODed on them to save us all the years of sniveling and whining.
 
2013-08-13 12:38:45 PM

machoprogrammer: Waldo Pepper: Slow To Return: machoprogrammer: And why is one banned substance ok but others are not? Is Gaylord Perry's spitball cheating? Is a player getting Lasik cheating?

The answer to this question is probably the same as the answer to the Pete Rose question.

The spitter was legal for what 30 years or so until the 1920's.  

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1080112/

Perry played way after the 20s


Yes I realize Perry played way after the 20's.  My point is the spitter once had a place in baseball and was perfectly legal, plus unlike Steroids and Gambling, throwing the spitter is one of the "acceptable as long you don't caught" kinds o cheating. How many of the past basketball HOFamers traveled numerous times during a game, before the NFL got all uppity how many football players did not so legal acts as with pretty much all major team sports.

The reason this type of "cheating" isn't a major deal is that it doesn't really affect the integrity of the game. If Gaylord Perry was a horrible pitcher he would have never lasted as long as he did and there is no way he could get away with throwing the spitter every pitch or even every game.

A 16 year kid won't harm himself by learning to throw the spitter or any of the other acceptable cheats.  That same 16 year old taking PED's isn't a good thing
 
2013-08-13 12:42:25 PM

Killer Cars: but in general, MLB baseball is probably the ONE sport where a manager is a f*cking idiot to seriously manage every single regular season game to win at all costs, regardless if he bet his house on it or not.


Nah, it's true in the NBA and NHL as well - they're called "schedule losses".
 
2013-08-13 12:45:43 PM
On August 24, 1989, Rose voluntarily accepted a permanent place on baseball's ineligible list

And then continued to lie about it.  fark him.

And we arent seriously talking about Griffey not being a HOFer are we?
 
2013-08-13 12:50:10 PM

IAmRight: Nah, it's true in the NBA and NHL as well - they're called "schedule losses".


True...really, any "long" regular season requires a certain management from a coach of when to lose and when to actually go for it.
 
2013-08-13 12:59:17 PM

Gunny Highway: And we arent seriously talking about Griffey not being a HOFer are we?


Only that rarest of sliver of humanity that remembered Ken Griffey Jr. playing baseball after 1999.
 
2013-08-13 12:59:32 PM

Waldo Pepper: machoprogrammer: Waldo Pepper: Slow To Return: machoprogrammer: And why is one banned substance ok but others are not? Is Gaylord Perry's spitball cheating? Is a player getting Lasik cheating?

The answer to this question is probably the same as the answer to the Pete Rose question.

The spitter was legal for what 30 years or so until the 1920's.  

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1080112/

Perry played way after the 20s

Yes I realize Perry played way after the 20's.  My point is the spitter once had a place in baseball and was perfectly legal, plus unlike Steroids and Gambling, throwing the spitter is one of the "acceptable as long you don't caught" kinds o cheating. How many of the past basketball HOFamers traveled numerous times during a game, before the NFL got all uppity how many football players did not so legal acts as with pretty much all major team sports.

The reason this type of "cheating" isn't a major deal is that it doesn't really affect the integrity of the game. If Gaylord Perry was a horrible pitcher he would have never lasted as long as he did and there is no way he could get away with throwing the spitter every pitch or even every game.

A 16 year kid won't harm himself by learning to throw the spitter or any of the other acceptable cheats.  That same 16 year old taking PED's isn't a good thing


Steroids were legal in baseball for a while. They were not even illegal in the US until the 80s.

And steroids, if taken responsibily, have a very low risk of any long term health problems. Hell, alcohol and cigarettes are worse for you. Cocaine, greenies, etc are far worse for you. So if the argument is "they are bad for you!", then why are the records of Mays, Aaron, etc... ok when they were cheating?
 
2013-08-13 12:59:45 PM

Killer Cars: True...really, any "long" regular season requires a certain management from a coach of when to lose and when to actually go for it.


It's not really "when to lose" it's more "when to care less about winning."

Like late in the season the Heat started resting their starters...but their backups kept winning games. Or earlier in the season when the Spurs sent their starters home early on a road trip and then almost beat the Heat...they weren't really trying to lose, per se...it's just that winning was less important than rest.
 
2013-08-13 01:02:19 PM

sigdiamond2000: remus: How is betting on your team to WIN a problem?

Because it affects the way you manage a game, possibly putting your players at risk.


And looking the other way while your players juice up... doesn't?
 
2013-08-13 01:04:35 PM

EyeballKid: Gunny Highway: And we arent seriously talking about Griffey not being a HOFer are we?

Only that rarest of sliver of humanity that remembered Ken Griffey Jr. playing baseball after 1999.


Hey passes the eye test, he passes the stats test, he passes the iconic play test, he passes the best player at his position for x years test.

Stop it.
 
2013-08-13 01:07:50 PM

EyeballKid: Gunny Highway: And we arent seriously talking about Griffey not being a HOFer are we?

Only that rarest of sliver of humanity that remembered Ken Griffey Jr. playing baseball after 1999.


Only the Reds fan that doesn't care about anything other than how he was a bust for the Reds.
 
2013-08-13 01:12:00 PM

chimp_ninja: Ditto Andruw Jones, who I also think should make the Hall, but I admit is a much more borderline call than Griffey. Defense tends to be largely unappreciated, but Jones has a "Brooks Robinson" case, and he was a better overall player than some of the other glove-first inductees (Maranville, Mazeroski, etc.).


MUCH more borderline.

I say this as a former longtime Brave fan, who was overjoyed at ages 19-2...6? AJ and was glad to see him go. .240 is not a good look for anyone, even a defensive wizard like Andruw.

// that said, he definitely belongs in Curacao's HOF
 
2013-08-13 01:13:52 PM

IAmRight: Killer Cars: True...really, any "long" regular season requires a certain management from a coach of when to lose and when to actually go for it.

It's not really "when to lose" it's more "when to care less about winning."

Like late in the season the Heat started resting their starters...but their backups kept winning games. Or earlier in the season when the Spurs sent their starters home early on a road trip and then almost beat the Heat...they weren't really trying to lose, per se...it's just that winning was less important than rest.


Then Rose would be a complete idiot to bet on his team in those games.

But when his starter is far and away better than the other team's starter, and his hitters are on a solid streak, it would be smart to make a bet. Considering Rose's history of gambling, I have to assume he knows this much.

It's conjecture to think that he would keep his starter in a little too long just to get the win, or he would tell his runners to steal home and take out the catcher so he could bet on the next game without said catcher, or anything along those lines.

I know why it's not allowed, but betting on your own team is far from the biggest sin in pro sports.
 
2013-08-13 01:15:24 PM

homarjr: IAmRight: Killer Cars: True...really, any "long" regular season requires a certain management from a coach of when to lose and when to actually go for it.

It's not really "when to lose" it's more "when to care less about winning."

Like late in the season the Heat started resting their starters...but their backups kept winning games. Or earlier in the season when the Spurs sent their starters home early on a road trip and then almost beat the Heat...they weren't really trying to lose, per se...it's just that winning was less important than rest.

Then Rose would be a complete idiot to bet on his team in those games.

But when his starter is far and away better than the other team's starter, and his hitters are on a solid streak, it would be smart to make a bet. Considering Rose's history of gambling, I have to assume he knows this much.

It's conjecture to think that he would keep his starter in a little too long just to get the win, or he would tell his runners to steal home and take out the catcher so he could bet on the next game without said catcher, or anything along those lines.

I know why it's not allowed, but betting on your own team is far from the biggest sin in pro sports.


Did he bet on his team every night?
 
2013-08-13 01:16:44 PM

homarjr: I know why it's not allowed, but betting on your own team is far from the biggest sin in pro sports.


It's a hell of a lot worse than taking any kind of drug.
 
2013-08-13 01:22:12 PM

homarjr: Then Rose would be a complete idiot to bet on his team in those games.

But when his starter is far and away better than the other team's starter, and his hitters are on a solid streak, it would be smart to make a bet. Considering Rose's history of gambling, I have to assume he knows this much.


Vegas lines are going to price in the fact that his starter's better and the line will shift accordingly.  He's only got an edge if he's using the fact that he's the ultimate lineup decision maker to play different guys than most of the bookmakers expect.  Start dicking the bookies around, who knows what happens.  Also, unless he bets the same on every single game which games he bets on and how much becomes a tell.  Rose is only slightly less of an idiot than Lenny Dykstra.
 
2013-08-13 01:22:19 PM

Gunny Highway: homarjr: IAmRight: Killer Cars: True...really, any "long" regular season requires a certain management from a coach of when to lose and when to actually go for it.

It's not really "when to lose" it's more "when to care less about winning."

Like late in the season the Heat started resting their starters...but their backups kept winning games. Or earlier in the season when the Spurs sent their starters home early on a road trip and then almost beat the Heat...they weren't really trying to lose, per se...it's just that winning was less important than rest.

Then Rose would be a complete idiot to bet on his team in those games.

But when his starter is far and away better than the other team's starter, and his hitters are on a solid streak, it would be smart to make a bet. Considering Rose's history of gambling, I have to assume he knows this much.

It's conjecture to think that he would keep his starter in a little too long just to get the win, or he would tell his runners to steal home and take out the catcher so he could bet on the next game without said catcher, or anything along those lines.

I know why it's not allowed, but betting on your own team is far from the biggest sin in pro sports.

Did he bet on his team every night?


You tell me. Did he? What kind of details do we know around his gambling history?

I honestly don't know.
 
2013-08-13 01:23:01 PM

homarjr: IAmRight: Killer Cars: True...really, any "long" regular season requires a certain management from a coach of when to lose and when to actually go for it.

It's not really "when to lose" it's more "when to care less about winning."

Like late in the season the Heat started resting their starters...but their backups kept winning games. Or earlier in the season when the Spurs sent their starters home early on a road trip and then almost beat the Heat...they weren't really trying to lose, per se...it's just that winning was less important than rest.

Then Rose would be a complete idiot to bet on his team in those games.

But when his starter is far and away better than the other team's starter, and his hitters are on a solid streak, it would be smart to make a bet. Considering Rose's history of gambling, I have to assume he knows this much.

It's conjecture to think that he would keep his starter in a little too long just to get the win, or he would tell his runners to steal home and take out the catcher so he could bet on the next game without said catcher, or anything along those lines.

I know why it's not allowed, but betting on your own team is far from the biggest sin in pro sports.


Correct.

It is far from assaulting your opponent in an attempt to cripple them, such as Tonya Harding.

It isn't quite as bad as betting against your team.

That is about it.
 
2013-08-13 01:26:18 PM

IAmRight: homarjr: I know why it's not allowed, but betting on your own team is far from the biggest sin in pro sports.

It's a hell of a lot worse than taking any kind of drug.


I'm not denying that, but it's not NEARLY as bad as betting against your team. It's not worse than intentionally hurting other players (not something I think Rose ever tried to do - he just played hard, even in exhibition games). I'm sure the list goes on.

Taking drugs is whatever to me. Everyone does it. I'm pro-Bonds. He's the best player of all time, bar none.
 
2013-08-13 01:44:09 PM

machoprogrammer: jayhawk88: machoprogrammer: Nadie_AZ: ManateeGag: No shiat.  he's be in the hall of fame by now, praised as a hero by most.

Seattle recently honored Ken Griffey Jr at a home game against the Brewers. He sat down with the Milwaukee announcers for an inning. At one point they flashed the top 6 leaders in Home Runs. He was asked about how he felt to be in that company:

1 Bonds
2. Aaron
3. Ruth
4. Mays
5. Rodruiguez
6. Griffey Jr

He paused. "Numbers 2, 3 and 4" he replied and commented on how great they were. Silence ensued. He left and later they talked of his not-so-silent indictment of Bonds and Rodruiguez.

Which is ironic since 2, 3 and 4 did PEDs as well. Amphetamines are also performance enhancing drugs

Really? We're going to equate greenies with the mad-scientist lab experiment that was late 90's/early 00's Barry Bonds? If there's no level of distinction then why not just declare coffee and cigs PED's and burn Cooperstown to the ground?

Stimulants are a gigantic advantage over the course of a long season. Possibly moreso than steroids, particularly with regards to non power metrics. And why is one banned substance ok but others are not? Is Gaylord Perry's spitball cheating? Is a player getting Lasik cheating?


Cheating means you broke the rules.  Were there rules against using stimulants back in the day?
Also, I don't know about the rest of the players but Hank Aaron is a man of the highest character.  He shouldn't be painted with the same brush as the others.
 
2013-08-13 01:48:43 PM
homarjr:

Did he bet on his team every night?

You tell me. Did he? What kind of details do we know around his gambling history?

I honestly don't know.


Rose says he did.  Dowd report says he didnt.  The evidence says he didnt bet on one game Soto pitched.  Why didnt he bet on his team that night?
 
2013-08-13 01:54:32 PM

Earguy: Pete Rose was my boyhood hero.  My mom used a laundry marker on a white tee shirt to make a Pete Rose jersey for me, how cute is that?  Pete deserved to be un-banned and put in the Hall of Fame.

However, this is Pete Rose's corked bat.

[img.gawkerassets.com image 640x480]


From the comments:

"I expect better out of Pete Rose. Like using depleted uranium, or bone marrow, inside the bat. That would've been a real innovation "
 
2013-08-13 02:14:14 PM

puckrock2000: Yeah, right - like he wasn't on greenies just like every other player in the 60s and 70s.


exactly, I don't gamble like Pete but I would bet he nose bombed into piles of coke back in the day too.  May have even downed some mushroom soup with Doc Ellis.
 
2013-08-13 03:03:48 PM

Gunny Highway: homarjr:

Did he bet on his team every night?

You tell me. Did he? What kind of details do we know around his gambling history?

I honestly don't know.

Rose says he did.  Dowd report says he didnt.  The evidence says he didnt bet on one game Soto pitched.  Why didnt he bet on his team that night?


Of course, Rose has already admitted to lieing for 15 years about betting on the Reds. Which only makes sense to try and make himself look better in the media. He may not be the most reliable source.
 
2013-08-13 03:44:53 PM

Dr Dreidel: chimp_ninja: Ditto Andruw Jones, who I also think should make the Hall, but I admit is a much more borderline call than Griffey. Defense tends to be largely unappreciated, but Jones has a "Brooks Robinson" case, and he was a better overall player than some of the other glove-first inductees (Maranville, Mazeroski, etc.).

MUCH more borderline. I say this as a former longtime Brave fan, who was overjoyed at ages 19-2...6? AJ and was glad to see him go. .240 is not a good look for anyone, even a defensive wizard like Andruw.


Let's compare him to Andre Dawson.  Andruw has a better OBP (.337 to .323), similar SLG (.486 to .483), and similar HR total (434 to 438).  Essentially the same offensive player, with Andruw's OBP advantage tempered by Dawson being a better baserunner.  (Not that Andruw was a bad baserunner until he got old/hurt/fat.)  Add in "Andruw is a defensive wizard at a tougher position." (Dawson played a lot of RF), and that's a pretty good case, even if you think Andre Dawson was a mistake.  (I do.  Hall of Very Good material.)

You might also compare him to Robin Yount... similar OBP (.337 to Yount's .342), similar defensive rep (good SS/CF vs. excellent CF), but Jones has a huge edge in power (56 points of SLG and 183 extra HR).

Both Yount and Dawson played longer, but the gap isn't huge.  It's not a slam-dunk for Andruw, and it comes down to how valuable you think his defense really was.  He's obviously a far superior hitter to the big-name glove-first guys (Ozzie/Mazeroski/Brooks/etc.), and he has a similar bat to guys who were "good" defenders at tougher middle infield positions (Cal/Banks/Sandberg/etc.).

// that said, he definitely belongs in Curacao's HOF

Given that the second-best MLB player in history from Curacao so far is .... Roger Bernadina?  Randall Simon?  Probably Jair Jurrjens.  Maybe Jurickson Profar once he plays a few years.

I think Andruw is a shoo-in for that one.  Of course, it's probably located in his dining room or something.  Curacao is tiny.
 
2013-08-13 03:48:28 PM
I stopped caring too much about baseball ~15 years ago, but when I was younger, Ken Griffey Jr was far and away my favorite player. I've still got his jersey somewhere at home, even though it's covered in blood from one of the times I got my ass kicked pretty soundly in elementary school.

The Griffey Jr. and Glavine/Smoltz/Maddux/Avery eras were some good times to grow up in for sure.
 
2013-08-13 03:54:58 PM
What Bill James had to say about Ken Griffey Jr., placing him as the 7th all-time greatest centerfielder:

"The second-best left-handed hitting, left-handed throwing outfielder ever born in Donora, Pennsylvania on November 21."

Of course, Stan Musial was just ahead of him.

Does Ken Griffey Jr. belong in the Hall of Fame? They could eliminate 90% of the Hall of Fame, and Ken Griffey Jr. would still belong.
 
2013-08-13 04:30:47 PM

chimp_ninja: It's not a slam-dunk for Andruw, and it comes down to how valuable you think his defense really was.


Which is why I say he's more borderline than Junior Griffey. That's not a knock on him - I like the kid, and his defense certainly makes him Hall-worthy, but I also think that his awful hitting after his mid-20s will turn some voters off.

// the Curacao stuff was tongue-in-cheek, sorry it left you blue
 
2013-08-13 04:38:43 PM

Dr Dreidel: // the Curacao stuff was tongue-in-cheek, sorry it left you blue


Not at all.  I just couldn't think of a second player from Curacao off the top of my head, but BR lets you click on a country and see the whole list.

/Bam-bam Meulens!  Those were rough years for NY.
 
2013-08-13 05:54:15 PM

EyeballKid: Nadie_AZ: Seattle recently honored Ken Griffey Jr at a home game against the Brewers. He sat down with the Milwaukee announcers for an inning. At one point they flashed the top 6 leaders in Home Runs. He was asked about how he felt to be in that company:

1 Bonds
2. Aaron
3. Ruth
4. Mays
5. Rodruiguez
6. Griffey Jr

He paused. "Numbers 2, 3 and 4" he replied and commented on how great they were. Silence ensued. He left and later they talked of his not-so-silent indictment of Bonds and Rodruiguez.

And, immediately after leaving, Griffey injured his hamstring and was unable to offer commentary until mid 2014.

/Reds fan
/Griffey Jr. belongs in the HOF...as the biggest bust in the history of baseball.


Biggest bust? Tell me you're farking joking...the fact that he constantly got hurt is a testament to the fact that he never doped.
 
2013-08-13 06:00:05 PM
Ok, I responded to EyeballKid before I had finished reading the thread. Now I'm convinced the guy is a farking troll.
 
2013-08-13 06:40:29 PM

keepitcherry: Ok, I responded to EyeballKid before I had finished reading the thread. Now I'm convinced the guy is a farking troll.


Butthurt Reds fan is also a decent possibility.
 
2013-08-13 07:12:55 PM

velvet_fog: Self-righteous baseball writers need to get over themselves and their PED witchhunt. No one else gives a shiat. Sorry, but baseball records aren't sacred. It's entertainment. It's no better than the WWE and should be treated appropriately.


Pete Rose is already in the WWE Hall of Fame.
 
2013-08-13 07:54:26 PM

keepitcherry: EyeballKid: Nadie_AZ: Seattle recently honored Ken Griffey Jr at a home game against the Brewers. He sat down with the Milwaukee announcers for an inning. At one point they flashed the top 6 leaders in Home Runs. He was asked about how he felt to be in that company:

1 Bonds
2. Aaron
3. Ruth
4. Mays
5. Rodruiguez
6. Griffey Jr

He paused. "Numbers 2, 3 and 4" he replied and commented on how great they were. Silence ensued. He left and later they talked of his not-so-silent indictment of Bonds and Rodruiguez.

And, immediately after leaving, Griffey injured his hamstring and was unable to offer commentary until mid 2014.

/Reds fan
/Griffey Jr. belongs in the HOF...as the biggest bust in the history of baseball.

Biggest bust? Tell me you're farking joking...the fact that he constantly got hurt is a testament to the fact that he never doped.


Not necessarily. Doping can lead to weakened tendons and a lot of Griffey's injuries were of the non-breakdown type IIRC. Not that I  am certain he  was juicing, but it doesn't really mean much.
 
2013-08-13 08:51:43 PM

machoprogrammer: Nadie_AZ: ManateeGag: No shiat.  he's be in the hall of fame by now, praised as a hero by most.

Seattle recently honored Ken Griffey Jr at a home game against the Brewers. He sat down with the Milwaukee announcers for an inning. At one point they flashed the top 6 leaders in Home Runs. He was asked about how he felt to be in that company:

1 Bonds
2. Aaron
3. Ruth
4. Mays
5. Rodruiguez
6. Griffey Jr

He paused. "Numbers 2, 3 and 4" he replied and commented on how great they were. Silence ensued. He left and later they talked of his not-so-silent indictment of Bonds and Rodruiguez.

Which is ironic since 2, 3 and 4 did PEDs as well. Amphetamines are also performance enhancing drugs


You arent supposed to talk about amphetamines in baseball or any of the other drugs that were not regulated against.  It makes MLB look disengenious regarding PED's.

The All-Powerful Atheismo: Frederick: It's not an apples-to-apples comparison.

Correct.

Frederick: Whether PED's actually give someone an advantage over another on the field of play is debatable.

Not really.  It is debatable in only the loosest sense.


By all accounts from players who have used, PED's benefits are in recovering from injury, not in actually enhancing performance.  Listen to former players from before PED's were illegal such as Mike Golic.  Some even say steroids hinder performance.

There is certainly debate.
 
2013-08-13 08:59:11 PM

Super_pope: Cubs300: PEDs = bad. Betting on the game = worse.

Becoming freakish hulk-men plagued by bouts of extreme aggression with massacred endocrine systems that will probably never function properly again for the sake of a game, with massively boosted chances for bone fractures and ruptured tendons and things: Not so bad

Betting on a game: Unforgivable, cause potentially, maybe, it could possibly put one of your players at risk.  I checked out that Mario Soto story.

Baseball and its fans are such a weird thing to me, because most people AGREE it isn't fun to watch, its an outing punctuated by some random excitement on occasion.  They treat it like its sacrosanct or something though, which is insane to me.


Different games have different appropriate consumption venues. Baseball is boring as hell on TV because of the venue and interruptions (commercials). Baseball in an actual stadium is a lot of fun. In that sense it's a much lighter form of hokey, which is only watchable in person.

/Surprisingly, auto racing becomes an actual entertaining sport on the radio.
 
2013-08-13 09:33:17 PM

sigdiamond2000: Marcus Aurelius: Did Pete ever bet against his team?

Then what's the problem exactly?

A manager doesn't need to be betting against his team, or even on the game he's managing, in order to corrupt the decisions he makes.


you are a complete moron and should remove yourself entirely from the internet forever.

Pete rose bets on his team to win. it corrupts his managing to win HOW? exactly? shouldn't he be trying to win every game and isn't he just providing himself with extra motivation? jesus Christ you are weapons grade stupid.

He never bet on his team to lose.
 
2013-08-13 09:48:40 PM

poisonedpawn78: sigdiamond2000: Marcus Aurelius: Did Pete ever bet against his team?

Then what's the problem exactly?

A manager doesn't need to be betting against his team, or even on the game he's managing, in order to corrupt the decisions he makes.

you are a complete moron and should remove yourself entirely from the internet forever.

Pete rose bets on his team to win. it corrupts his managing to win HOW? exactly? shouldn't he be trying to win every game and isn't he just providing himself with extra motivation? jesus Christ you are weapons grade stupid.

He never bet on his team to lose.


This has been explained.  Look up Mario Soto.

Also, don't be a dick and be wrong at the same time.  It's kinda unbecoming.
 
2013-08-13 10:40:20 PM

Dafatone: This has been explained. Look up Mario Soto.


He was just so focused on the basketball and hockey games that time that he forgot to place the bet on his team.  Honest mistake.  Totally understandable.
 
2013-08-13 10:47:29 PM

poisonedpawn78: sigdiamond2000: Marcus Aurelius: Did Pete ever bet against his team?

Then what's the problem exactly?

A manager doesn't need to be betting against his team, or even on the game he's managing, in order to corrupt the decisions he makes.

you are a complete moron and should remove yourself entirely from the internet forever.

Pete rose bets on his team to win. it corrupts his managing to win HOW? exactly? shouldn't he be trying to win every game and isn't he just providing himself with extra motivation? jesus Christ you are weapons grade stupid.

He never bet on his team to lose.


You have no reason to believe that, other than that Rose, a known liar, says so. It doesn't matter anyway, as has been already explained to you by other smart people ITT. You are makinig a fool of yourself, and it is time for you to stop posting.
 
2013-08-13 11:34:27 PM

poisonedpawn78: shouldn't he be trying to win every game


Not really. You know you wont win every game. You play to win your division and win in the playoffs. You plan to lose some and you cut your losses when things go badly. And at the end of the season, if you aren't in a pennant race, this is even more true. You keep your big guys safe for the playoffs or next season. You get your young guys experience to help you next year or up their trade value. Etc.

You don't put your ace out on short rest in order to win the last game of the season when 22 games out of the playoffs and pitch a long complete game facing 39 batters. It doesn't matter of you go 70-92 instead of 69-93. This is something Rose actually did (he put Soto out on short rest repeatedly, but this was perhaps the most egregious offense).
 
2013-08-13 11:42:00 PM
1.bp.blogspot.com

mysbfiles.stonybrook.edu
 
2013-08-14 01:29:12 AM

Dafatone: poisonedpawn78: sigdiamond2000: Marcus Aurelius: Did Pete ever bet against his team?

Then what's the problem exactly?

A manager doesn't need to be betting against his team, or even on the game he's managing, in order to corrupt the decisions he makes.

you are a complete moron and should remove yourself entirely from the internet forever.

Pete rose bets on his team to win. it corrupts his managing to win HOW? exactly? shouldn't he be trying to win every game and isn't he just providing himself with extra motivation? jesus Christ you are weapons grade stupid.

He never bet on his team to lose.

This has been explained.  Look up Mario Soto.

Also, don't be a dick and be wrong at the same time.  It's kinda unbecoming.


2nd'd
 
2013-08-14 03:15:16 AM
"It's good that Rose has been professing accountability in recent years, but he did the exact opposite of that for far too long."


Other than Ryan Braun, exactly who is it who has taken accountability in the PED scandals of the past few years?
 
2013-08-14 03:31:35 AM

Alphakronik: "It's good that Rose has been professing accountability in recent years, but he did the exact opposite of that for far too long."


Other than Ryan Braun, exactly who is it who has taken accountability in the PED scandals of the past few years?


What's your definition of "accountability"?  Several players have apologized to fans, others have accepted suspensions as punishment, and others have admitted use.
 
2013-08-14 06:54:20 AM
I love Pete Rose.  Pete Rose will always be my favorite player.

but..

Yes, Pete, you should have picked drugs.  you SHOULD have picked alcohol.  Maybe even beating your wife (I mean how much damage can a slap hitter do?).

you should not have bet on baseball.  you knew that.  end of story.
 
2013-08-14 06:56:00 AM

Nadie_AZ: ManateeGag: No shiat.  he's be in the hall of fame by now, praised as a hero by most.

Seattle recently honored Ken Griffey Jr at a home game against the Brewers. He sat down with the Milwaukee announcers for an inning. At one point they flashed the top 6 leaders in Home Runs. He was asked about how he felt to be in that company:

1 Bonds
2. Aaron
3. Ruth
4. Mays
5. Rodruiguez
6. Griffey Jr

He paused. "Numbers 2, 3 and 4" he replied and commented on how great they were. Silence ensued. He left and later they talked of his not-so-silent indictment of Bonds and Rodruiguez.


I will never get how people assume aaron, ruth, and mays never did any cheating.
 
2013-08-14 09:09:11 AM

I sound fat: I will never get how people assume aaron, ruth, and mays never did any cheating.


Cheating was invented in 1994, during the strike.
 
2013-08-14 09:13:10 AM

DeWayne Mann: I sound fat: I will never get how people assume aaron, ruth, and mays never did any cheating.

Cheating was invented in 1994, during the strike.


There is something to be said for the HOF inducting known spitball pitcher/scuffers/sanders/cut into their museum.  Im not sure what it is but I think it is related to this subject.
 
2013-08-14 09:19:02 AM

Gunny Highway: DeWayne Mann: I sound fat: I will never get how people assume aaron, ruth, and mays never did any cheating.

Cheating was invented in 1994, during the strike.

There is something to be said for the HOF inducting known spitball pitcher/scuffers/sanders/cut into their museum.  Im not sure what it is but I think it is related to this subject.


As we learned earlier in the thread, because the spitball was legal until the 1920s, it cannot be considered cheating now.
 
2013-08-14 09:30:15 AM

DeWayne Mann: Gunny Highway: DeWayne Mann: I sound fat: I will never get how people assume aaron, ruth, and mays never did any cheating.

Cheating was invented in 1994, during the strike.

There is something to be said for the HOF inducting known spitball pitcher/scuffers/sanders/cut into their museum.  Im not sure what it is but I think it is related to this subject.

As we learned earlier in the thread, because the spitball was legal until the 1920s, it cannot be considered cheating now.


Whitey must be relieved.  This whole issue and the HOF is really turning me off.

I do plan on being there when Vlad gets in though because I am a hypocrite and a stupid fan.  Sue me.
 
2013-08-14 09:35:46 AM

Gunny Highway: Vlad gets in though


I'm fairly sure he played after 1994 and is therefore a cheater. Sorry, no HOF.
 
2013-08-14 09:39:13 AM

DeWayne Mann: Gunny Highway: Vlad gets in though

I'm fairly sure he played after 1994 and is therefore a cheater. Sorry, no HOF.


but...but...no batting glove......*tears*
 
2013-08-14 09:44:23 AM

Gunny Highway: DeWayne Mann: Gunny Highway: Vlad gets in though

I'm fairly sure he played after 1994 and is therefore a cheater. Sorry, no HOF.

but...but...no batting glove......*tears*


Sounds like cheating to me. If not wearing gloves didn't give him an unfair advantage, he'd wear them like everyone else.
 
2013-08-14 10:13:25 AM

DeWayne Mann: Gunny Highway: DeWayne Mann: Gunny Highway: Vlad gets in though

I'm fairly sure he played after 1994 and is therefore a cheater. Sorry, no HOF.

but...but...no batting glove......*tears*

Sounds like cheating to me. If not wearing gloves didn't give him an unfair advantage, he'd wear them like everyone else.


Also, I have it on good authority that he had considerable hand strength.  That's a sure sign of cheating-- he was probably too strong to put on batting gloves without ripping them, giving him the unfair advantage of not wearing them.

He has not released photographic evidence disproving bacne, furthermore and comma.
 
2013-08-14 11:03:40 AM

chimp_ninja: DeWayne Mann: Gunny Highway: DeWayne Mann: Gunny Highway: Vlad gets in though

I'm fairly sure he played after 1994 and is therefore a cheater. Sorry, no HOF.

but...but...no batting glove......*tears*

Sounds like cheating to me. If not wearing gloves didn't give him an unfair advantage, he'd wear them like everyone else.

Also, I have it on good authority that he had considerable hand strength.  That's a sure sign of cheating-- he was probably too strong to put on batting gloves without ripping them, giving him the unfair advantage of not wearing them.

He has not released photographic evidence disproving bacne, furthermore and comma.


He also got injured once, JUST LIKE A CHEATER WOULD.
 
2013-08-14 01:55:28 PM

DeWayne Mann: He also got injured once, JUST LIKE A CHEATER WOULD.


And then he recovered.  And you know what ELSE assists injury recovery?
 
2013-08-14 01:59:26 PM

chimp_ninja: DeWayne Mann: He also got injured once, JUST LIKE A CHEATER WOULD.

And then he recovered.  And you know what ELSE assists injury recovery?


Cortisone shots!
 
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