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(World Review)   As the Fukushima power plant continues to spew radioactive sludge into the Pacific, Japan's pro-nuclear lobbyists switch their arguments to economics to get their industry back on track   (worldreview.info) divider line 66
    More: Scary, Japan, Sea of Japan, Fukushima Daiichi, Tokyo Electric Power Company, electrical power industry, Japanese Media, Liberal Democratic Party, sludge  
•       •       •

688 clicks; posted to Business » on 12 Aug 2013 at 9:28 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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vpb [TotalFark]
2013-08-12 08:11:15 AM  
Is the site farked?
 
2013-08-12 08:20:13 AM  
Start burning coal. We have coal mines.
 
2013-08-12 08:39:48 AM  
Maybe in hindsight it wasn't such a good idea to put a nuclear reactor by the water near a fault line.
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2013-08-12 09:00:03 AM  

nekom: Maybe in hindsight it wasn't such a good idea to put a nuclear reactor by the water near a fault line.


Or let TEPCO run it.
 
2013-08-12 09:39:15 AM  
Capitalism: destroying the only planet we have since it's inception.
 
2013-08-12 09:48:05 AM  

nekom: Maybe in hindsight it wasn't such a good idea to put a nuclear reactor by the water near a fault line.


Isn't the entire country of Japan more or less on one faultline or another?
 
2013-08-12 09:48:12 AM  

nekom: Maybe in hindsight it wasn't such a good idea to put a nuclear reactor by the water near a fault line.


Or to keep running a nearly 60 year old design when there were safer options available. A Gen 3+ or one of the Early Gen IV reactors wouldn't have melted down like that.
 
2013-08-12 09:49:33 AM  
"Our priorities are tilted by marketplace imperatives," he said. "The malaria vaccine in humanist terms is the biggest need. But it gets virtually no funding. But if you are working on male baldness or other things you get an order of magnitude more research funding because of the voice in the marketplace than something like malaria." -Bill Gates
 
2013-08-12 09:50:15 AM  
img.scoop.it
Fukushima, creating new species since 2011.


/you just have to spin it......
 
2013-08-12 09:51:11 AM  

FarkedOver: Capitalism: destroying the only planet we have since it's inception.


The planet will be fine.

Humanity is what's farked.
 
2013-08-12 09:58:50 AM  

hardinparamedic: FarkedOver: Capitalism: destroying the only planet we have since it's inception.

The planet will be fine.

Humanity is what's farked.


This

People have to realize that the conditions that must exist for humanity to survive are a very narrow set of criteria. The planet will continue, as will life. What we are destroying is our ability to survive as a species.
 
2013-08-12 10:02:59 AM  

BigBooper: hardinparamedic: FarkedOver: Capitalism: destroying the only planet we have since it's inception.

The planet will be fine.

Humanity is what's farked.

This

People have to realize that the conditions that must exist for humanity to survive are a very narrow set of criteria. The planet will continue, as will life. What we are destroying is our ability to survive as a species.


And we are powerless to stop it.
 
2013-08-12 10:08:19 AM  

FarkedOver: And we are powerless to stop it.


Do us a favor, and stop pretending this is unique to any form of capitalism.

inapcache.boston.com
bellona.no
 
2013-08-12 10:14:55 AM  

hardinparamedic: FarkedOver: And we are powerless to stop it.

Do us a favor, and stop pretending this is unique to any form of capitalism.

[inapcache.boston.com image 850x705]
[bellona.no image 402x300]


Those images refute everything.  I take back everything I have ever said oh wise sage.
 
2013-08-12 10:25:24 AM  
Now I can understand why my Japanese mother left Japan for the West.
 
2013-08-12 10:29:34 AM  

FarkedOver: Capitalism: destroying the only planet we have since it's inception.


Yup, the Soviets were sure capaitalists when they built Chernobyl.
 
2013-08-12 10:31:56 AM  

FarkedOver: Those images refute everything.  I take back everything I have ever said oh wise sage.


No. It's a response to your ever-annoying "LOL CAPITALISM", while ignoring the fact that every non-"capitalist" Government ever to grace the face of our planet since the Industrial revolution has been just as, if not more destructive to the environment as a whole.

Look. I get it. Profits bad, people good. But, really, there are enough abuses in society that you can chose to champion social justice for rather than pretending that communism is the superior system to everything else.
 
2013-08-12 10:32:50 AM  

Geotpf: FarkedOver: Capitalism: destroying the only planet we have since it's inception.

Yup, the Soviets were sure capaitalists when they built Chernobyl.


You are aware that the soviets brought in capitalists to build shiat? Please see the Koch family.  They made their money from the USSR.  Kind of ironic for a bunch of capitalists and John Birch Society asshats.
 
2013-08-12 10:37:05 AM  

FarkedOver: You are aware that the soviets brought in capitalists to build shiat? Please see the Koch family.  They made their money from the USSR.  Kind of ironic for a bunch of capitalists and John Birch Society asshats.


Chernobyl was built by the Koch Brothers?

bbsimg.ngfiles.com
 
2013-08-12 10:40:50 AM  

hardinparamedic: FarkedOver: You are aware that the soviets brought in capitalists to build shiat? Please see the Koch family.  They made their money from the USSR.  Kind of ironic for a bunch of capitalists and John Birch Society asshats.

Chernobyl was built by the Koch Brothers?

[bbsimg.ngfiles.com image 471x267]


Nope, not that I'm aware of, never claimed they did either, but I am illustrating that "state capitalism" does not equal socialism or communism.
 
2013-08-12 10:42:05 AM  

FarkedOver: Nope, not that I'm aware of, never claimed they did either, but I am illustrating that "state capitalism" does not equal socialism or communism.


Okay. Just wanting to be clear here what we're talking about.
 
2013-08-12 10:42:21 AM  

BigBooper: hardinparamedic: FarkedOver: Capitalism: destroying the only planet we have since it's inception.

The planet will be fine.

Humanity is what's farked.

This

People have to realize that the conditions that must exist for humanity to survive are a very narrow set of criteria. The planet will continue, as will life. What we are destroying is our ability to survive as a species.


Yeah, go over to the geek tab and take a look at the Deepwater link. Even if all surface life is wiped out, there will still be weird things under the sea.
 
2013-08-12 10:44:24 AM  

Tyrone Slothrop: Yeah, go over to the geek tab and take a look at the Deepwater link. Even if all surface life is wiped out, there will still be weird things under the sea.


users.cwnet.com
Darlin it's better down where it's wetter
 
2013-08-12 10:50:30 AM  
"The company emphasised that the release is roughly within the allowed range of 22 trillion becquerels a year but admitted it was not happening in a controlled manner."

becomes

OMG SPEWING RADIOACTIVE SLUDGE in the hands of subfarxist.

Just as "reliable and unbiased" in the website's pitch line becomes "The fact that the country will continue to function without the slightest restriction in day-to-day life will prove the technocratic doomsayers wrong once more" in TFA.

B-b-b-b-b-b-b-b-but TFA says "22 trillion" so that much be a lot, right?

If my math is right...and since I'm working with no-nukes wharrsites here, somebody along the line could have butchered the numbers...22 trillion is about 1/6 of what was released in an accident in Canada in 2010 that nobody outside that part of Canada ever heard of.
 
2013-08-12 10:51:16 AM  
So at what point are we going to be designing reactors that , when they overheat, drop the core a mile into the earth, and then cover it in rock and aggregate?

/Yep, Hopefully, it'll encase itself in magma

// Nuclear Power - the Best we got so far.
 
2013-08-12 11:37:20 AM  
All you farkers against technology need to get off your computers pronto. You're killing the environment

/serious
 
2013-08-12 11:37:37 AM  

hardinparamedic: nekom: Maybe in hindsight it wasn't such a good idea to put a nuclear reactor by the water near a fault line.

Or to keep running a nearly 60 year old design when there were safer options available. A Gen 3+ or one of the Early Gen IV reactors wouldn't have melted down like that.


And even then, it wasn't the whole "sixty-ish-year-old nuclear reactor" part that caused the disaster so much as it was the "got torn asunder by the fourth- or fifth-most powerful earthquake in the history of a country built on a major tectonic fault line, followed a few minuted later by a 200-foot-tall wall of millions of gallons of salt water flooding the important bits" part.
 
2013-08-12 12:14:21 PM  

rubi_con_man: So at what point are we going to be designing reactors that , when they overheat, drop the core a mile into the earth, and then cover it in rock and aggregate?

/Yep, Hopefully, it'll encase itself in magma

// Nuclear Power - the Best we got so far.


We don't need to.  We already have designs in which overheating will cause the reactor vessel's core to expand, opening gaps through which neutrons will escape, making the fission chain reaction unsustainable.  Barring serious and obvious errors in the initial design and construction, they are physically incapable of melting down.  But building new nuclear plants is expensive and tends to get a lot of public opposition, so instead of putting newer designs in place, we keep extending the lifetimes of old reactors which are vulnerable to these problems.  In the case of Fukushima, they extended the plant's lifetime without even addressing the flaws in their in-case-of-disaster backup systems, which IIRC had in fact been identified previously.
 
2013-08-12 12:54:06 PM  

FarkedOver: hardinparamedic: FarkedOver: You are aware that the soviets brought in capitalists to build shiat? Please see the Koch family.  They made their money from the USSR.  Kind of ironic for a bunch of capitalists and John Birch Society asshats.

Chernobyl was built by the Koch Brothers?

[bbsimg.ngfiles.com image 471x267]

Nope, not that I'm aware of, never claimed they did either, but I am illustrating that "state capitalism" does not equal socialism or communism.


Whatever we call their economies, the five-year-plan places trump everyone else when it comes to environmental damage.

upload.wikimedia.org
Then again, one of them (China) is one of the few places serious about nuclear power, which is really our last chance.
 
2013-08-12 01:13:30 PM  

Deep Contact: Start burning coal. We have coal mines.


But no community wants to allow the coal trains through in the ports in the PNW.
 
2013-08-12 01:31:39 PM  
Tritium undergoes beta decay, subby. You'd better not go out in the sun if you're worried about this. Sunlight is actually somewhat ionizing. You could put a pile of radioactive tritium right in front of me on my desk and I wouldn't mind.

You anti nuke caterwaulers are actually, actively in the business of killing people. Not producing energy isn't an option. Every watt of nuclear energy we don't produce is another watt we have to rely on coal for, which kills miners in mining accidents, and hundreds of thousands of people through air pollution.
 
2013-08-12 01:32:06 PM  

FarkedOver: BigBooper: hardinparamedic: FarkedOver: Capitalism: destroying the only planet we have since it's inception.

The planet will be fine.

Humanity is what's farked.

This

People have to realize that the conditions that must exist for humanity to survive are a very narrow set of criteria. The planet will continue, as will life. What we are destroying is our ability to survive as a species.

And we are powerlesstoo stupid to realize we are capable of being smart enough to stop it. Oh well, new movies coming out this summer! Kanye West knocked up Kim kardashian! Sarah Palin said what?!


FTFY
 
2013-08-12 02:12:22 PM  

SpaceButler: rubi_con_man: So at what point are we going to be designing reactors that , when they overheat, drop the core a mile into the earth, and then cover it in rock and aggregate?

/Yep, Hopefully, it'll encase itself in magma

// Nuclear Power - the Best we got so far.

We don't need to.  We already have designs in which overheating will cause the reactor vessel's core to expand, opening gaps through which neutrons will escape, making the fission chain reaction unsustainable.  Barring serious and obvious errors in the initial design and construction, they are physically incapable of melting down.  But building new nuclear plants is expensive and tends to get a lot of public opposition, so instead of putting newer designs in place, we keep extending the lifetimes of old reactors which are vulnerable to these problems.  In the case of Fukushima, they extended the plant's lifetime without even addressing the flaws in their in-case-of-disaster backup systems, which IIRC had in fact been identified previously.


The only important question about the new designs is if you can still use them to make weapon grade Plutonium?

/if "no" then the design's just gonna gather dust.
 
2013-08-12 02:35:14 PM  
I didn't see sludge used anywhere in TFA, but if there is anything leaking out of a nuclear power plant that could accurately be described as "radioactive sludge" you have a problem on your hands that is easily equivalent to if not worse than Chernobyl. Fortunately this doesn't seem to be the case.
 
2013-08-12 02:49:55 PM  

whither_apophis: The only important question about the new designs is if you can still use them to make weapon grade Plutonium?

/if "no" then the design's just gonna gather dust.


Yeah, not as far as I'm aware.  I believe at least one of them, the integral fast reactor, can actually run on material which some older reactors leave behind as waste.

/Been a while since I read up on all this
 
2013-08-12 02:53:12 PM  

Tommy Moo: Tritium undergoes beta decay, subby. You'd better not go out in the sun if you're worried about this. Sunlight is actually somewhat ionizing. You could put a pile of radioactive tritium right in front of me on my desk and I wouldn't mind.

You anti nuke caterwaulers are actually, actively in the business of killing people. Not producing energy isn't an option. Every watt of nuclear energy we don't produce is another watt we have to rely on coal for, which kills miners in mining accidents, and hundreds of thousands of people through air pollution.


They won't listen. They'll just say wind is as inexpensive as nuclear, then call you and me Luddites. I tried explaining capacity factor, and their eyes just glazed over...

I think I cried myself to sleep that night.
 
2013-08-12 03:25:46 PM  

FarkedOver: Capitalism: destroying the only planet we have since it's inception.


What has capitalism ever done for us!?

Made slavery illegal.

Yes, but besides that!?

Given women equal rights.

All right, but what else?

Stopped two world wars and prevented, so far, a third.
Ensured more people have enough food to survive than at any other time in history.
Brought education to the masses.
Sent a man to the moon.
Currently exploring Mars.
Sent the first man made object out of our solar system.
Created the largest amount of material goods and wealth the world has ever seen.
Cured illnesses and diseases that just 60 years ago decimated large numbers of people.
Created a global communication network.

Yes but other then that what has it done for us!?
 
2013-08-12 03:37:36 PM  

Slaves2Darkness: FarkedOver: Capitalism: destroying the only planet we have since it's inception.

What has capitalism ever done for us!?

Made slavery illegal.

Yes, but besides that!?

Given women equal rights.

All right, but what else?

Stopped two world wars and prevented, so far, a third.
Ensured more people have enough food to survive than at any other time in history.
Brought education to the masses.
Sent a man to the moon.
Currently exploring Mars.
Sent the first man made object out of our solar system.
Created the largest amount of material goods and wealth the world has ever seen.
Cured illnesses and diseases that just 60 years ago decimated large numbers of people.
Created a global communication network.

Yes but other then that what has it done for us!?


A good chunk of that list has less to do with capitalism and more to do with creating a sufficient tax base to support government spending on infrastructure and R&D.

Capitalism left to its own devices would lead to boom bust cycles in food production that would sicken or kill millions.  What maintains stable food production in the US for instance is a system of regulations and price controls that are very not capitalist in nature, coupled with scientific advances largely made by university research (i.e. land grand colleges).

Capitalism has absolutely nothing to do with exploring Mars, except as I mentioned the tax base is large enough to support such government expenditures into otherwise non-profitable R&D.

Same with the probes that have left the solar system.  That was a massive pissing contest between two world powers.  I loved the Space Race all the same.
 
2013-08-12 03:56:58 PM  
Slaves2Darkness: FarkedOver: Capitalism: destroying the only planet we have since it's inception.

What has capitalism ever done for us!?

Made slavery illegal.


Do you have any clue what the hell Westerners were doing in Africa to begin with? BS talking point is BS, aside from the fact that it wasn't for capitalistic reasons we got rid of slavery. Hell half the country seceded just because they were sure getting rid of slavery would have done terrible damage to their economy (which Reconstruction did).

Given women equal rights.


Again it wasn't the capitalists pushing for this and many BS economic reasons have been employed over the years to limit the economic interaction of women with society at large.

I don't want to sound like I'm bagging on a system of economics but taking the opposite tract and pretending that it is the awesome thing that cannot or does not intrinsically dick over the unfortunate is pretty asinine in and of itself.

Protip: ideas are never to be worshipped; ideas are tools to be used and tossed out as their usefulness ebbs and wanes
 
2013-08-12 04:37:32 PM  

Slaves2Darkness: What has capitalism ever done for us!?

Made slavery illegal.

Yes, but besides that!?

Given women equal rights.

All right, but what else?



Capitalism is simply a mode of production, nothing more and nothing less.

//Render unto Capitalism the things that are Capitalism
 
2013-08-12 05:07:52 PM  

Slaves2Darkness: FarkedOver: Capitalism: destroying the only planet we have since it's inception.

What has capitalism ever done for us!?

Made slavery illegal.


Slavery existed because of capitalism in the first place.

Yes, but besides that!?

Given women equal rights.


Women's suffrage was granted in the USSR before the US ratified it.... whoops!

All right, but what else?

Stopped two world wars and prevented, so far, a third.


The Red Army would like to have a word with you about WW2

Ensured more people have enough food to survive than at any other time in history.

I think more people have starved or gone hungry due to capitalism....

Brought education to the masses.

Public education is a result of capitalism?  hmmmm

Sent a man to the moon.

First satellite in space, first dog in space, first man in space, first woman in space..... USSR... whoops again

Currently exploring Mars.

A private company has rovers on Mars? Intradasting!

Sent the first man made object out of our solar system.

It's actually still in the solar system.

Created the largest amount of material goods and wealth the world has ever seen.

At the expense of the third world labor force. WOO HOO!!

Cured illnesses and diseases that just 60 years ago decimated large numbers of people.

Jonas Salk refused to patent his polio vaccine.... Henrietta Lacks and the immortal cell line... look that up when you get a chance. HOORAY CAPITALISM!!

Created a global communication network.

Actually, DARPA did.... government funding paid for it, not private enterprise.

Yes but other then that what has it done for us!?

Ummmm I dunno, what else ya got?
 
2013-08-12 05:33:11 PM  

Slaves2Darkness: FarkedOver: Capitalism: destroying the only planet we have since it's inception.

What has capitalism ever done for us!?

Made slavery illegal.

Yes, but besides that!?

Given women equal rights.

All right, but what else?

Stopped two world wars and prevented, so far, a third.
Ensured more people have enough food to survive than at any other time in history.
Brought education to the masses.
Sent a man to the moon.
Currently exploring Mars.
Sent the first man made object out of our solar system.
Created the largest amount of material goods and wealth the world has ever seen.
Cured illnesses and diseases that just 60 years ago decimated large numbers of people.
Created a global communication network.

Yes but other then that what has it done for us!?


I'll give you these two - the others are debatable (for the reasons mentioned above).  Still, not too shabby accomplishments for an economic system.

/apparently capitalism also does not teach the difference between its and it's
 
2013-08-12 05:40:26 PM  
The absolute best thing for the planet would be an all out apollo/manhattan scale project to build dozens, maybe even a few hundred, new AP-1000 reactors in the US, Europe, China, and Japan..
 
2013-08-12 06:04:58 PM  

FarkedOver: Slaves2Darkness: FarkedOver: Capitalism: destroying the only planet we have since it's inception.

What has capitalism ever done for us!?

Made slavery illegal.

Slavery existed because of capitalism in the first place.

Yes, but besides that!?

Given women equal rights.

Women's suffrage was granted in the USSR before the US ratified it.... whoops!

All right, but what else?

Stopped two world wars and prevented, so far, a third.

The Red Army would like to have a word with you about WW2

Ensured more people have enough food to survive than at any other time in history.

I think more people have starved or gone hungry due to capitalism....

Brought education to the masses.

Public education is a result of capitalism?  hmmmm

Sent a man to the moon.

First satellite in space, first dog in space, first man in space, first woman in space..... USSR... whoops again

Currently exploring Mars.

A private company has rovers on Mars? Intradasting!

Sent the first man made object out of our solar system.

It's actually still in the solar system.

Created the largest amount of material goods and wealth the world has ever seen.

At the expense of the third world labor force. WOO HOO!!

Cured illnesses and diseases that just 60 years ago decimated large numbers of people.

Jonas Salk refused to patent his polio vaccine.... Henrietta Lacks and the immortal cell line... look that up when you get a chance. HOORAY CAPITALISM!!

Created a global communication network.

Actually, DARPA did.... government funding paid for it, not private enterprise.

Yes but other then that what has it done for us!?

Ummmm I dunno, what else ya got?


That's nice except both Greece & New Zealand got beat by 30 years on universal suffrage, so go take your commie propaganda and go ponder it back in your state sanctioned gulag
 
2013-08-12 06:42:48 PM  

Gulper Eel: "The company emphasised that the release is roughly within the allowed range of 22 trillion becquerels a year but admitted it was not happening in a controlled manner."

becomes

OMG SPEWING RADIOACTIVE SLUDGE in the hands of subfarxist.

Just as "reliable and unbiased" in the website's pitch line becomes "The fact that the country will continue to function without the slightest restriction in day-to-day life will prove the technocratic doomsayers wrong once more" in TFA.

B-b-b-b-b-b-b-b-but TFA says "22 trillion" so that much be a lot, right?

If my math is right...and since I'm working with no-nukes wharrsites here, somebody along the line could have butchered the numbers...22 trillion is about 1/6 of what was released in an accident in Canada in 2010 that nobody outside that part of Canada ever heard of.


Another site said 40 trillion bQ of tritium.  THat's a bit over 1000 curies.  A typical self lit exit sign has about 20 curies in it.  Walmart's lost thousands of self lit exit signs.
 
2013-08-12 06:54:33 PM  

FarkedOver: Slaves2Darkness: FarkedOver: Capitalism: destroying the only planet we have since it's inception.

What has capitalism ever done for us!?

Made slavery illegal.

Slavery existed because of capitalism in the first place.

Yes, but besides that!?

Given women equal rights.

Women's suffrage was granted in the USSR before the US ratified it.... whoops!

All right, but what else?

Stopped two world wars and prevented, so far, a third.

The Red Army would like to have a word with you about WW2

Ensured more people have enough food to survive than at any other time in history.

I think more people have starved or gone hungry due to capitalism....

Brought education to the masses.

Public education is a result of capitalism?  hmmmm

Sent a man to the moon.

First satellite in space, first dog in space, first man in space, first woman in space..... USSR... whoops again

Currently exploring Mars.

A private company has rovers on Mars? Intradasting!

Sent the first man made object out of our solar system.

It's actually still in the solar system.

Created the largest amount of material goods and wealth the world has ever seen.

At the expense of the third world labor force. WOO HOO!!

Cured illnesses and diseases that just 60 years ago decimated large numbers of people.

Jonas Salk refused to patent his polio vaccine.... Henrietta Lacks and the immortal cell line... look that up when you get a chance. HOORAY CAPITALISM!!

Created a global communication network.

Actually, DARPA did.... government funding paid for it, not private enterprise.

Yes but other then that what has it done for us!?

Ummmm I dunno, what else ya got?


All that makes up for all those civilian massacres and significant violation of human rights that communist nations are infamous for?

Communism looks good on paper, but its shiat in execution. Every nation that has become a Marxist-Socialist Paradise ends up becoming a tyrannical government who finds the workers, the people they are supposed to be protecting, as dispensable.
 
2013-08-12 09:13:43 PM  
Just to bring this back to nuclear...

You know we have things called PV and wind wind turbines? Maybe we would be wiser to use them, even if they are a slightly more expensive to install (the bill for this daiichi disaster is going to pretty high, not to mention cost to store waste when things don't go wrong, so don't claim nukes are cheap - it betrays your ignorance). And we could actually try slightly to use less energy, houses in particular are notoriously inefficient.

Unfortunately, this choice has been strongly opposed by all the fossil and nuke proponents who insist that if it isn't big, impressive, and dangerous it can't be done. Now they complain PV produces too much power...
 
2013-08-12 09:21:08 PM  

cman: Communism

Capitalism looks good on paper, but its shiat in execution. Every nation that has become a Marxist-Socialist Free Market Paradise ends up becoming a tyrannical government who finds the workers, the people they are supposed to be protecting, as dispensable.
 
2013-08-12 09:22:33 PM  

ajgeek: Tommy Moo: Tritium undergoes beta decay, subby. You'd better not go out in the sun if you're worried about this. Sunlight is actually somewhat ionizing. You could put a pile of radioactive tritium right in front of me on my desk and I wouldn't mind.

You anti nuke caterwaulers are actually, actively in the business of killing people. Not producing energy isn't an option. Every watt of nuclear energy we don't produce is another watt we have to rely on coal for, which kills miners in mining accidents, and hundreds of thousands of people through air pollution.

They won't listen. They'll just say wind is as inexpensive as nuclear, then call you and me Luddites. I tried explaining capacity factor, and their eyes just glazed over...

I think I cried myself to sleep that night.


A certain phrase comes to mind when dealing with anti-nukes: Let not the perfect be the enemy of the good.
 
2013-08-12 09:28:24 PM  

cman: All that makes up for all those civilian massacres and significant violation of human rights that communist nations are infamous for?

Communism looks good on paper, but its shiat in execution. Every nation that has become a Marxist-Socialist Paradise ends up becoming a tyrannical government who finds the workers, the people they are supposed to be protecting, as dispensable.


You're arguing with someone who thinks that no "real" communist Government has ever been tried on Earth, and thinks that if only people would hold true to Marx's beliefs, that it would work out in the end.

He's farkied as "No True Socialist" for a reason.
 
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