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(Cleveland Plain Dealer)   Cleveland police refuse to return gun to man who consented to a legal search. Naturally, the gun owner is suing for the return of his weapon--and tens of thousands of dollars in damages   (cleveland.com) divider line 147
    More: Asinine, Cleveland Police, Photo of the Day, refuses  
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10163 clicks; posted to Main » on 10 Aug 2013 at 5:02 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-08-10 01:04:58 PM
I'm not a fan of gun owners but this is theft by the police.
 
2013-08-10 01:09:03 PM
How is this different than cash seizures? I am not saying either is good.
 
2013-08-10 01:10:36 PM
Why should he have to buy a new one? His old one was stolen and he knows exactly who has it.
 
2013-08-10 01:17:34 PM

Arthur Jumbles: I'm not a fan of gun owners but this is theft by the police.


violentsalvation: Why should he have to buy a new one? His old one was stolen and he knows exactly who has it.


/2 lazy 2 typ
 
2013-08-10 01:17:57 PM
The lawsuit said police unlawfully searched his car and seized the weapon. He was arrested for possessing a weapon while a  felon. He was held in the city jail for three nights.

Not charged =/= legally allowed to have a gun
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2013-08-10 01:20:21 PM

Arthur Jumbles: I'm not a fan of gun owners but this is theft by the police.


If it's true and there isn't anything being left out.
 
2013-08-10 01:39:34 PM
Nobody has explained to me why poor people are allowed to carry guns in the first place.  I hope the political right grows some balls and gets their arms in the air over this.  I can't bear to live in a world where people making under 250,000 dollars are allowed to carry guns.  As always, the history of man has been the history of poor people oppressing the rich.
 
2013-08-10 01:54:50 PM

Arthur Jumbles: I'm not a fan of gun owners



Why so mad, bro?
 
2013-08-10 02:12:43 PM

The My Little Pony Killer: The lawsuit said police unlawfully searched his car and seized the weapon. He was arrested for possessing a weapon while a  felon. He was held in the city jail for three nights.

Not charged =/= legally allowed to have a gun


"He spoke with officers and later told them that he had a permit to carry a concealed weapon, which was in his car, according to the suit.

He bought the .38-caliber Taurus on Feb. 19, 2011, for about $500 from Atlantic Gun and Tackle, the suit said, and he has a receipt for it.

The lawsuit said police unlawfully searched his car and seized the weapon. He was arrested for possessing a weapon while a felon. He was held in the city jail for three nights.

But he was never charged, and his attorney, J. Gary Seewald, says Washington does not have a criminal record
."

Well it's one or the other. And if he is a felon he goes into "how about we enforce existing gun laws and charge the motherfarker? FFS" category. And if he's not a felon the cops need to give him his goddamn gun back.
 
2013-08-10 03:49:02 PM

clancifer: How is this different than cash seizures? I am not saying either is good.


It's not. Legal is legal, illegal is illegal, private property remains that, and due process is always required. They need to shiat or get off the pot.

I hope he wins that plus more.
 
2013-08-10 04:47:55 PM

The My Little Pony Killer: The lawsuit said police unlawfully searched his car and seized the weapon. He was arrested for possessing a weapon while a  felon. He was held in the city jail for three nights.

Not charged =/= legally allowed to have a gun


Well, except in this case it kind of is. He has a permit, a receipt and, apparently, no felony record.

That is to say, it never should have been seized in the first place and should now be returned.
 
2013-08-10 05:08:06 PM

The My Little Pony Killer: The lawsuit said police unlawfully searched his car and seized the weapon. He was arrested for possessing a weapon while a  felon. He was held in the city jail for three nights.

Not charged =/= legally allowed to have a gun


Please name your source/evidence that says he's not allowed to own a firearm.  And why would the state give him a concealed carry permit if he wasn't allowed to have guns?

Are you reading a different article then the rest of the class...?
 
2013-08-10 05:10:56 PM
I'm a big old bunny hugging, tree worshipping freak, but this is wrong. They should give the guy his gun back.

They'd get reamed if they stole his watch or cell phone. This is not very different.
 
2013-08-10 05:12:10 PM

The My Little Pony Killer: The lawsuit said police unlawfully searched his car and seized the weapon. He was arrested for possessing a weapon while a  felon. He was held in the city jail for three nights.

Not charged =/= legally allowed to have a gun


Actually it pretty much does. To become a prohibited person, as in someone the government says can't have a gun, you have to have done one of a few certain things. A felony conviction will do it, as will a misdemeanor DV conviction, so will being charged with a felony with a jail term of more than a year. However almost all of the things are criminal. The only thing that aren't is if you have dishonorably discharged from the military or if you have been committed to a mental institution (or adjudicated mentally defective). Well you can also lose the right by renouncing your US citizenship, but then you can't stay in the US either so it is kinda moot. There is no provision for "because we don't think you should" or "because we don't like you".

So they have to have a specific reason to take this guy's gun. If he's not being charged with a crime and doesn't have a criminal record, then they have to give it back. Remember that, like it or not, firearm ownership is an enumerated right meaning it is subject to protections. It isn't something that can be revoked for no reason.

http://www.atf.gov/firearms/how-to/identify-prohibited-persons.html
 
2013-08-10 05:14:39 PM
I believe that the lawsuit has more to do with staying 3 nightsin the pokey.  Do you think he would be this pissed if he wasn't unlawfully imprisoned?  I would sue the shiat out of him as well.  The police have far too much control now as it is.  The NRA should be doing this case pro bono.
 
2013-08-10 05:15:25 PM
No. The police do not get to steal ANYTHING from citizens. EVER. Even guns. What the f*ck, cops.
 
2013-08-10 05:16:19 PM
The lawsuit said police unlawfully searched his car and seized the weapon. He was arrested for possessing a weapon while a  felon. He was held in the city jail for three nights.

But he was never charged, and his attorney, J. Gary Seewald, says Washington does not have a criminal record.


Why isn't this guy suing for false arrest and imprisonment also?
 
2013-08-10 05:16:32 PM
"Washington's lawsuit alleges that Washington called police about 2:30 a.m. Feb. 10"

that was his first mistake right there.
 
2013-08-10 05:17:25 PM

The My Little Pony Killer: The lawsuit said police unlawfully searched his car and seized the weapon. He was arrested for possessing a weapon while a  felon. He was held in the city jail for three nights.

Not charged =/= legally allowed to have a gun


Know how I know you didn't read the article?
 
2013-08-10 05:19:19 PM
Popcorn anyone?
 
2013-08-10 05:20:22 PM
The lawsuit said police unlawfully searched his car and seized the weapon. He was arrested for possessing a weapon while a  felon. He was held in the city jail for three nights.
But he was never charged, and his attorney, J. Gary Seewald, says Washington does not have a criminal record.


Something's missing here.  They held him in jail for three days, presumably because they wrongly believed he was a felon in possession of a firearm, and he's not suing for that also?
 
2013-08-10 05:20:36 PM

zamboni: The My Little Pony Killer: The lawsuit said police unlawfully searched his car and seized the weapon. He was arrested for possessing a weapon while a  felon. He was held in the city jail for three nights.

Not charged =/= legally allowed to have a gun

Well, except in this case it kind of is. He has a permit, a receipt and, apparently, no felony record.

That is to say, it never should have been seized in the first place and should now be returned.


Permit (possibly invalid*), receipt, and allegedly no felony record.

*based on the possible felony record
 
2013-08-10 05:24:12 PM
With a name like Washington, the cops reasoning should be quite obvious.
 
2013-08-10 05:25:23 PM
No matter how you feel about guns, you should not like any precedent which says the police can take what you have and not give it back.
 
2013-08-10 05:26:09 PM

panfried: With a name like Washington, the cops reasoning should be quite obvious.


That's what i was thinking.
 
2013-08-10 05:26:53 PM

ltdanman44: "Washington's lawsuit alleges that Washington called police about 2:30 a.m. Feb. 10"

that was his first mistake right there.


Yep.

And remember this, when seconds count, the cops are only 20 minutes away.
 
2013-08-10 05:27:02 PM

Satanic_Hamster: The My Little Pony Killer: The lawsuit said police unlawfully searched his car and seized the weapon. He was arrested for possessing a weapon while a  felon. He was held in the city jail for three nights.

Not charged =/= legally allowed to have a gun

Please name your source/evidence that says he's not allowed to own a firearm.  And why would the state give him a concealed carry permit if he wasn't allowed to have guns?

Are you reading a different article then the rest of the class...?


liberals get to be liberal with the truth
 
2013-08-10 05:28:09 PM

arcas: Something's missing here.  They held him in jail for three days, presumably because they wrongly believed he was a felon in possession of a firearm, and he's not suing for that also?


That bothers me too. Why isn't the guy complaining about a false arrest? All he wants is his gun back. Something is definitely missing from this story.
 
2013-08-10 05:33:40 PM
.38 Taurus?  What, like $60 at a pawn shop?  Police did him a favor.
 
2013-08-10 05:36:41 PM

The My Little Pony Killer: The lawsuit said police unlawfully searched his car and seized the weapon. He was arrested for possessing a weapon while a  felon. He was held in the city jail for three nights.

Not charged =/= legally allowed to have a gun


The man does not have a criminal record.  He is not a felon.  He has a valid conceal carry permit.  Ergo he was arrested under false pretenses.

This isn't even the much abused asset forfeiture crap the police love to use to steal property.
 
2013-08-10 05:37:04 PM

CruiserTwelve: arcas: Something's missing here.  They held him in jail for three days, presumably because they wrongly believed he was a felon in possession of a firearm, and he's not suing for that also?

That bothers me too. Why isn't the guy complaining about a false arrest? All he wants is his gun back. Something is definitely missing from this story.


The writer screwed up. He's suing for a lot more than just the amount of the gun and fees. But the gun is what the article is focused on...
 
2013-08-10 05:39:46 PM

The My Little Pony Killer: The lawsuit said police unlawfully searched his car and seized the weapon. He was arrested for possessing a weapon while a felon. He was held in the city jail for three nights.

Not charged =/= legally allowed to have a gun


Charges were dropped because he wasn't a felon.
 
2013-08-10 05:40:17 PM
If they did in fact wrongfully take it and he has no criminal record nor did anything wrong, he deserves it back and the police officers involved and department should be penalized with fines. Make them pay punitive damages.
 
2013-08-10 05:40:28 PM

Mike_LowELL: Nobody has explained to me why poor people are allowed to carry guns in the first place.  I hope the political right grows some balls and gets their arms in the air over this.  I can't bear to live in a world where people making under 250,000 dollars are allowed to carry guns.  As always, the history of man has been the history of poor people oppressing the rich.


"Marx and Engels taught that in order to win victory over the class enemies the proletariat had to be armed, organized and disciplined. A resolute rebuff had to be given to any attempt on the part of the bourgeoisie to disarm it."

~ Andrei A Grechko, Soviet minister of defense
 
2013-08-10 05:43:07 PM
I feel bad for the guy, walking around with your backup piece instead of your primary can feel like you're walking around with a slightly smaller penis.  What if he didn't have a available right away when he got home?  What would he have brought to Starbucks yesterday, a loaner?  How mortifying.
 
2013-08-10 05:44:46 PM

CruiserTwelve: arcas: Something's missing here.  They held him in jail for three days, presumably because they wrongly believed he was a felon in possession of a firearm, and he's not suing for that also?

That bothers me too. Why isn't the guy complaining about a false arrest? All he wants is his gun back. Something is definitely missing from this story.


Perhaps a legal strategy? Get the gun back and next you take them to the cleaners for the rest. Just a guess.
 
2013-08-10 05:45:15 PM

tetsoushima: I feel bad for the guy, walking around with your backup piece instead of your primary can feel like you're walking around with a slightly smaller penis.  What if he didn't have a available right away when he got home?  What would he have brought to Starbucks yesterday, a loaner?  How mortifying.


Why are gun haters so obsessed over penis size?
 
2013-08-10 05:45:26 PM
"the city does evaluate the return of property on a case-by-case basis.''
REALLY? how about always give the citizen's property back?
ASSHOLLESSSSSS
 
2013-08-10 05:46:36 PM
They assumed he was a felon due to his skin color.


One bad apple and all that.........except when it is a group of cops all doing the same thing and the DA is involved...and the judge.
 
2013-08-10 05:46:54 PM

namatad: "the city does evaluate the return of property on a case-by-case basis.''
REALLY? how about always give the citizen's property back?
ASSHOLLESSSSSS


Yeah.  There's that whole Constitutional thing about being secure in your property and such.

Oh, right.  The Constitution died when the towers collapsed.
 
2013-08-10 05:49:06 PM

Arthur Jumbles: I'm not a fan of gun owners but this is theft by the police.


Well, we think you're pretty farking awesome! Hell, I even have your poster on my wall.
 
2013-08-10 05:51:21 PM

violentsalvation: The My Little Pony Killer: The lawsuit said police unlawfully searched his car and seized the weapon. He was arrested for possessing a weapon while a  felon. He was held in the city jail for three nights.

Not charged =/= legally allowed to have a gun

"He spoke with officers and later told them that he had a permit to carry a concealed weapon, which was in his car, according to the suit.

He bought the .38-caliber Taurus on Feb. 19, 2011, for about $500 from Atlantic Gun and Tackle, the suit said, and he has a receipt for it.

The lawsuit said police unlawfully searched his car and seized the weapon. He was arrested for possessing a weapon while a felon. He was held in the city jail for three nights.

But he was never charged, and his attorney, J. Gary Seewald, says Washington does not have a criminal record."

Well it's one or the other. And if he is a felon he goes into "how about we enforce existing gun laws and charge the motherfarker? FFS" category. And if he's not a felon the cops need to give him his goddamn gun back.


$500 for a .38? Damn! Now I really wish I'd bought shares in gun companies back in 2008.

/so if old white people fear black men and buy guns, what threat would Hillary pose?
//fear of emasculation leads to ... more strip clubs and bigger trucks?
 
2013-08-10 05:51:37 PM
Subby got the headline wrong.  He didn't consent to a legal search.  The police conducted an ILLEGAL search of the man's vehicle.
 
2013-08-10 05:51:38 PM
Cops steal.  And they don't give sh*t back.  And if somebody who isn't a cop steals  your sh*t, they don't help get that sh*t back, either. Criminal justice in one more misnomered industry that grabs whatever it can get it's hands on and keeps it.  AAMOF, that's  pretty much the entire American business model in a nutshell.  Stop looking for justice in a failing society that's being dismantled by anybody with a crowbar.
 
2013-08-10 05:53:17 PM

OgreMagi: tetsoushima: I feel bad for the guy, walking around with your backup piece instead of your primary can feel like you're walking around with a slightly smaller penis.  What if he didn't have a available right away when he got home?  What would he have brought to Starbucks yesterday, a loaner?  How mortifying.

Why are gun haters so obsessed over penis size?


I don't know, but it's really annoying.  I guess it's because if you don't have a gun, you're just standing there with your dick in your hand.
 
2013-08-10 05:54:46 PM
Oh well, in this case it's a firearm.  But police departments all over the country have been seizing personal property (without any legal cause) for decades.  The court costs you'll pay aren't worth trying to get it back.  They do it because they can, and it's only going to get worse.

Don't ever, Ever, EVER travel with large amounts of cash.  The police (anywhere) can and will take that away from you and you'll never see it again.
 
2013-08-10 05:55:08 PM

ongbok: The lawsuit said police unlawfully searched his car and seized the weapon. He was arrested for possessing a weapon while a  felon. He was held in the city jail for three nights.

But he was never charged, and his attorney, J. Gary Seewald, says Washington does not have a criminal record.

Why isn't this guy suing for false arrest and imprisonment also?


yah
that's where things get strange, right?
It took them 3 days to determine that he owned and carried a gun legally?
Sounds like complete bullshiat.

My friend told me about a recent case, where it took 3 days to process his client so she could be released from prison.
That was three days after the judge said in court that the case was dismissed and she was free to go.
They cuffed her, took her back to prison for 3 days of processing.

if she were FREE, why????
sigh
 
2013-08-10 05:55:36 PM

OgreMagi: Why are gun haters so obsessed over penis size?


It's kinda like when you look at someone riding a bike and think,"Wow, that's a nice bike. I should probably ride more often. Maybe if I got a new bike I'd feel obliged to take it out. But not too nice, 'cause I don't wanna worry about it getting stolen all the time and if it gets a -tiny penis-  little dinged up I won't get bummed out. "
 
2013-08-10 05:55:55 PM
www.unitedliberty.org

Fully approves this fine police work.
 
2013-08-10 06:00:43 PM

Neighborhood Watch: The police (anywhere) can and will take that away from you and you'll never see it again.


Poor people aren't allowed to have cash.  If they have cash, that means they got it illegally.  All transactions must be recorded, or you're a terrorist.  Sound familiar?  Does anybody still think it's all college football and spiffy cars and lawnmowers on Sat. mornings and rainbow farting unicorns flying us our Burger King order while sprinkling Old Glory and fuzzy kittens o'er the land of the free?  All I can do is sit here and watch the tsunami of history repeat itself in "it can't happen here" land.  But if you get out a roll of tinfoil and tell me it's just a spring shower, you'r the fool.  Not me.
 
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