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(TaxProf)   Number of taxpayers who renounced U.S. citizenship hits record high. And that's not even counting Edward Snowden   (taxprof.typepad.com) divider line 354
    More: Interesting, U.S. Citizenship, hit records, U.S.  
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8083 clicks; posted to Main » on 10 Aug 2013 at 1:40 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-08-10 03:29:51 PM  
fark all you haters! I have lived abroad 8 years. Why the hell do I need to file US taxes? Do you file state taxes in all 50 states?

Didn't think so.


I don't think any other country forces nonresidents to file.

I pay an assload of tax living in socialist Europe- FWIW.
 
2013-08-10 03:30:58 PM  

filter: fark all you haters! I have lived abroad 8 years. Why the hell do I need to file US taxes? Do you file state taxes in all 50 states?

Didn't think so.


I don't think any other country forces nonresidents to file.

I pay an assload of tax living in socialist Europe- FWIW.


Cry moar.
 
2013-08-10 03:31:56 PM  

Benevolent Misanthrope: pedrop357: ramblinwreck: If you think taxes are high in the U.S. versus the rest of the first world, then I have oceanfront property to sell you in Nebraska.

At least those countries don't tax you even though haven't been in their borders for a year or more.

Yeah, this.  I'll be paying taxes in both Canada and the US this year, and every year, because I make more than 80K.  I've always said I'd never renounce my citizenship, but I gotta say it's tempting now.


I know a way out of this situation- claim the foreign tax exclusion, rather than the foreign income exemption.
 
2013-08-10 03:32:16 PM  

FloydA: casual disregard:
Mr. Floyd A.,

I propose that we found a new nation. It has become obvious to me that the political powers which be cannot allow for meaningful reform. As such we must forge new ground.

Since there is, as it were, no ground to found, this nation must be a technological superiority. Thus shall we craft a nation of floating cities upon the ocean. As the time advances and as our technology advances, we can also build structures beneath the waves and in the Lagrangian points and beyond in the inky black forever.

I respectfully submit that this is a necessary act because there's fark-all chance we can find a proper compromise in-house.

/VR

Casual Disregard

You're not planning to ban spinach, onions, and the Reverend Horton Heat are you?


I like red onions. Spinach is hit and miss, but some greens go a long way.

Who am I kidding. The whole operation would be overtaken by extremists.

There's literally nothing a leftist can do except whine or die.
 
2013-08-10 03:32:37 PM  

filter: fark all you haters! I have lived abroad 8 years. Why the hell do I need to file US taxes?


You don't.  Renounce your US citizenship.  Nobody is trying to stop you.
 
2013-08-10 03:33:24 PM  
Number of newly self-declared terrorists hits record high. And that's not even counting Edward Snowden

FTFY.

If they want to leave the US for tax reasons, then it is enough of a reason to consider them little different than Al Qaeda
 
2013-08-10 03:33:50 PM  

jjorsett: the US threatens the institutions with all kinds of mayhem if they their customers don't toe the line regarding US citizens.


This is the real problem, the bank can't be sure if the American is lying to them and the *bank* gets hit if *we* are.
 
2013-08-10 03:36:27 PM  
encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com
 
2013-08-10 03:36:44 PM  
casual disregard:

I like red onions. Spinach is hit and miss, but some greens go a long way.

Who am I kidding. The whole operation would be overtaken by extremists.

There's literally nothing a leftist can do except whine or die.



We can encourage  them to set up floating cities on the ocean that will be tax-free libertarian paradises.

(Then we just need to find a way to keep them from coming back once they discover how quickly Galt's Gulch turns into Lord of the Flies.)
 
2013-08-10 03:37:49 PM  
This only proves that rich people have no loyalty to anything or anyone other than themselves and their bank accounts.
 
2013-08-10 03:39:07 PM  

FloydA: casual disregard:

I like red onions. Spinach is hit and miss, but some greens go a long way.

Who am I kidding. The whole operation would be overtaken by extremists.

There's literally nothing a leftist can do except whine or die.


We can encourage  them to set up floating cities on the ocean that will be tax-free libertarian paradises.

(Then we just need to find a way to keep them from coming back once they discover how quickly Galt's Gulch turns into Lord of the Flies.)


Galters never seem to grasp the simple reality that the moment that they exit the system, someone from beneath them in the system will step up to take their places.
 
2013-08-10 03:39:26 PM  

FloydA: leadmetal: You're babbling.

As I have demonstrated to your ideological partner, the services argument is complete bullshiat. What you and your kind want is the resources of other people. Plain and simple. That's why you want this big bloated government. If it was about paying for what one uses, then government services are not needed, only market services. People would pay for what they use. Government services allow forcing other people to pay for them or the bulk of their cost.

Oh, you're a Randian.  Why didn't you just say so? It would have saved us both some time.  Rand's simplistic philosophy works fine in books where the hack author gets to deus ex machia solutions to any problems that arise, but in the real world, it works no better than any other ideology.   In the real world, you have to adjust your ideals to fit the people - you can't change the people to suit your ideals.  Rand's ideology is no better than Marx's ideology, in that both of them are fantasy worlds that cannot ever possibly exist.  You might just as well base your plan for society on the Harry Potter novels.


You're wrong again. Never read Rand and what I know of her and her views I often find rather vile actually.

The simple fact is that the "services" argument is bullshiat on plain logical basis. Arguing that people are renouncing citizenship to avoid paying for what they use is simply illogical. Trying to convert it into an equally bullshiat social contract argument doesn't help you any. What you are saying with a social contract argument is that by circumstances of birth a person is bound much like a slave or serf would be bound. Except not being bound to a specific master, but bound to an institution of state which supposedly represents the interests of his fellow slaves. We're back to punishing the runaway slave because any slave that runs away means the rest of us have to pick more cotton per person.
 
2013-08-10 03:40:22 PM  
Love it or leave it!!

Oh wait...
 
2013-08-10 03:40:44 PM  
God forbid we offer citizenship to people that WANT to pay taxes here...
 
2013-08-10 03:41:01 PM  

edmo: Because everyone who thinks differently than you is clearly an inferior, unemployed subset of human who has no one to blame but himself for what he earns?


No because the person I was replying to thinks he or others are entitled to my labor as if it is their natural right.
 
2013-08-10 03:41:21 PM  

FloydA: casual disregard:

I like red onions. Spinach is hit and miss, but some greens go a long way.

Who am I kidding. The whole operation would be overtaken by extremists.

There's literally nothing a leftist can do except whine or die.


We can encourage  them to set up floating cities on the ocean that will be tax-free libertarian paradises.

(Then we just need to find a way to keep them from coming back once they discover how quickly Galt's Gulch turns into Lord of the Flies.)


"They" seem quite content to keep raping the populace in its little euphoria. That's why I think "we" need to make a clean break. At some point, you just stop conversating. We've passed that point. All we need is a few boats, my friend...
 
2013-08-10 03:41:23 PM  

detroitdoesntsuckthatbad: I remember reading an article that the USA is the only major nation to tax all offshore income regardless of permanent residence.  I had to pay US taxes even though I lived abroad for nearly 300 days 4 years ago.  Sucked.


Don't evade(yes, creative avoidance counts too) taxes, and do taxes without having to resort to creative accounting.

That said, if you need creative accounting just so taxes are in order, you're doing it wrong.

brilett: I guess we'll just annex the Cayman's.


THIS. Then follow with the rest of the Carribean.  Finally, pressure the UK's domiciles and Ireland to harmonize tax policy.
 
2013-08-10 03:42:01 PM  
Hobodeluxe: the person who thinks they are entitled to keep all their money. poor people pay the same for their gallon of gas or their bologna sandwich. and all of their income is taxed in sales taxes and other fees the utility companies charge them. they pay soc security tax on every dollar they make. rich people don't.

Today was my weekly trip to the grocery store where, as usual, I was the only person in line who actually purchased food with his own money. Tell me again how low-income individuals "pay the same" for their food. Perhaps you aren't aware, but they also frequently qualify for utility assistance.
 
2013-08-10 03:42:12 PM  

FloydA: The number of U.S. taxpayers renouncing citizenship or permanent-resident status surged to a record high in the second quarter, as new laws aimed at cracking down on overseas assets ...

Yeah, um, no. If you're hiding your wealth in offshore accounts, you don't get to call yourself a taxpayer. GTFO and stop using up the services that the rest of us are paying for, you got dam parasites.


The problem is not the taxes but the compliance cost with the IRS measures.

ManifestDestiny: Actually, I find myself quite affected by this issue and it's not really what a lot of people think. Yeah, yeah...getting a kick out of this, etc.

I am a permanent resident of my host country and married to a native who is a government peon. The problem for ordinary people like me is that not only do I have to pay steep Norwegian taxes, I also have to give the US its pound of flesh calculated by the pre-Norwegian-tax gross. It's complicated enough that I'd have to hire an accountant (at Norwegian rates).


Don't you get credit on your taxes for the taxes you pay Norway?

FloydA: I'm aware of the mechanisms. I was asking for someone to justify why capital gains income is taxed at a different rate than salary and wages income. I'm not blaming Mitt for taking advantage of the law as it is written, I'm just asking for someone who supports that aspect of the current tax code to explain why it is acceptable.

(I know the actual reason is that rich people write the laws, I was asking for someone to tell me the "rationalization" that makes those laws acceptable to about half of the voters.)


Actually there is a very good reason to tax capital gains lower--inflation.  You're not really making as much as it looks like in paper because you're getting back inflated dollars.  For typical stock market returns you actually pay more on capital gains than income once you consider this.
 
2013-08-10 03:42:14 PM  

leadmetal: FloydA: leadmetal: You're babbling.

As I have demonstrated to your ideological partner, the services argument is complete bullshiat. What you and your kind want is the resources of other people. Plain and simple. That's why you want this big bloated government. If it was about paying for what one uses, then government services are not needed, only market services. People would pay for what they use. Government services allow forcing other people to pay for them or the bulk of their cost.

Oh, you're a Randian.  Why didn't you just say so? It would have saved us both some time.  Rand's simplistic philosophy works fine in books where the hack author gets to deus ex machia solutions to any problems that arise, but in the real world, it works no better than any other ideology.   In the real world, you have to adjust your ideals to fit the people - you can't change the people to suit your ideals.  Rand's ideology is no better than Marx's ideology, in that both of them are fantasy worlds that cannot ever possibly exist.  You might just as well base your plan for society on the Harry Potter novels.

You're wrong again. Never read Rand and what I know of her and her views I often find rather vile actually.

The simple fact is that the "services" argument is bullshiat on plain logical basis. Arguing that people are renouncing citizenship to avoid paying for what they use is simply illogical. Trying to convert it into an equally bullshiat social contract argument doesn't help you any. What you are saying with a social contract argument is that by circumstances of birth a person is bound much like a slave or serf would be bound. Except not being bound to a specific master, but bound to an institution of state which supposedly represents the interests of his fellow slaves. We're back to punishing the runaway slave because any slave that runs away means the rest of us have to pick more cotton per person.


The Founding Fathers described it as a social contract, where we all put in in order to partake in the comforts of civilized society.

And Ben Franklin had harsh words for those who didn't like paying their taxes while still partaking in society's comforts.  He suggested that they get the fark out of America and go live in the wilds of the world.
 
2013-08-10 03:44:00 PM  
leadmetal:

i39.tinypic.com
In fact I am getting really tired of working well into May just to pay for unthankful indignant
people like yourself and/or those you champion.

i43.tinypic.com


Ever stop and wonder what goes into determining your gross income?

If we lowered taxes so that you were "done" paying on January 2, do you really think your gross would remain the same?

Go ahead and check out some comps. Test the market. What other countries offer more and charge less?
 
2013-08-10 03:44:43 PM  

RightToWork: Hobodeluxe: the person who thinks they are entitled to keep all their money. poor people pay the same for their gallon of gas or their bologna sandwich. and all of their income is taxed in sales taxes and other fees the utility companies charge them. they pay soc security tax on every dollar they make. rich people don't.

Today was my weekly trip to the grocery store where, as usual, I was the only person in line who actually purchased food with his own money. Tell me again how low-income individuals "pay the same" for their food. Perhaps you aren't aware, but they also frequently qualify for utility assistance.


You poor poor man, being the only person in line who had enough money to pay for his food without governmental assistance.  lol
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2013-08-10 03:44:43 PM  

leadmetal: Before you renounce US citizenship you need a passport in another country. The cost of this process varies depending on personal circumstances and ancestry. It's not what the USA takes in taxes, but this process that is the barrier. The cheapest route of course is to think a decade or more in advance and take up residence in another country fully understanding their immigration laws before hand. However not doing that means purchasing a passport and that is a very expensive process as I understand it.


Having another passport is not a requirement and there is no fee.  You might have to pay some taxes if you are a high earner or are wealthy, but that's money earned while enjoying the benefits of US citizenship.  Finding another country to take you might be a problem but it's not the fault of the USA and doesn't mean you aren't free to go be a stateless person.
 
2013-08-10 03:45:36 PM  
Number of unPatriotic moochers and corporate welfare queens renouncing US citizenship hits record high.
 
2013-08-10 03:48:47 PM  

RandomRandom: The easy fix would be to grade all received money as income, no matter the source.  Wages = income.  Dividends = income.  Inheritance = income.


Only if you want to make sure that families don't pass businesses on from one generation to the next without incorporating them in the first place. Why encourage one generation to spend what they have on themselves (so the feds don't get it) rather than looking ahead to make sure their progeny can have a leg up because of the work they themselves have put in? Sure, I know, lazy trust fund kids & all that. But then there are those smart families that don't just look to make piles of loot, but rather have significant resources on hand that can be used to aid the family as a whole. Why encourage selfishness and spendthrift behavior when rational planning, cooperation, and long-term plans and projects can be encouraged, with the wisdom, skills, knowledge, and resources built up over generation passed down and used well?
 
2013-08-10 03:51:39 PM  
ManifestDestiny:

I am a permanent resident of my host country and married to a native who is a government peon. The problem for ordinary people like me is that not only do I have to pay steep Norwegian taxes, I also have to give the US its pound of flesh calculated by the pre-Norwegian-tax gross. It's complicated enough that I'd have to hire an accountant (at Norwegian rates).

It is so expensive to be taxed twice over (plus all the costs that go into being employed like clothes, transportation, etc) that it's cheaper for my husband and myself if I just stay home and be a housewife. It's insane.


Fire your accountant and find one who knows you get a tax credit for income tax paid to foreign governments.
 
2013-08-10 03:51:49 PM  

filter: Benevolent Misanthrope: pedrop357: ramblinwreck: If you think taxes are high in the U.S. versus the rest of the first world, then I have oceanfront property to sell you in Nebraska.

At least those countries don't tax you even though haven't been in their borders for a year or more.

Yeah, this.  I'll be paying taxes in both Canada and the US this year, and every year, because I make more than 80K.  I've always said I'd never renounce my citizenship, but I gotta say it's tempting now.

I know a way out of this situation- claim the foreign tax exclusion, rather than the foreign income exemption.


It is amazing how many people, who are apparently smart enough to be wanted by an overseas employer, aren't smart enough to do a simple Google search, that will take them to the IRS webpage and explain to them their tax liability when working abroad.
 
2013-08-10 03:52:26 PM  

Princess Ryans Knickers: Number of unPatriotic moochers and corporate welfare queens renouncing US citizenship hits record high.


In other words, anyone who disagrees with what YOU say should automatically be silenced, shunned, and abandoned.
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2013-08-10 03:53:11 PM  
filter:
I don't think any other country forces nonresidents to file.

I pay an assload of tax living in socialist Europe- FWIW.


It's not like you are paying any US tax if you are paying such high taxes in "Socialist Europe" anyway so I guess it's just the trouble of filing a form stating that you don't owe any money that is your problem.

If being a US citizen isn't worth such a tiny amount of effort to you then you probably shouldn't be a US citizen anyway.
 
2013-08-10 03:54:03 PM  

Infernalist: The Founding Fathers described it as a social contract, where we all put in in order to partake in the comforts of civilized society.

And Ben Franklin had harsh words for those who didn't like paying their taxes while still partaking in society's comforts. He suggested that they get the fark out of America and go live in the wilds of the world.


Which is relevant to my argument exactly how? Am I supposed to consider these people gods or something? Or your interpretation of them correct?

Besides an attempt to invoke authority you are circling back to the services issue. If taxation was on par with services rendered it would make no sense to leave. However taxation exceeds the value of services one gets by a large enough margin, people leave for places where they get a better deal.

That is one of the ideas behind retaining the many states. People and capital would flow to the states which offered a better value while fleeing others that offered a worse value. This works on an international basis as well. The problem is not that people are fleeing, it is that the USA is no longer offering the best value for various people with the means and opportunity to get out.
 
2013-08-10 03:54:04 PM  

feanorn: RandomRandom: The easy fix would be to grade all received money as income, no matter the source.  Wages = income.  Dividends = income.  Inheritance = income.

Only if you want to make sure that families don't pass businesses on from one generation to the next without incorporating them in the first place. Why encourage one generation to spend what they have on themselves (so the feds don't get it) rather than looking ahead to make sure their progeny can have a leg up because of the work they themselves have put in? Sure, I know, lazy trust fund kids & all that. But then there are those smart families that don't just look to make piles of loot, but rather have significant resources on hand that can be used to aid the family as a whole. Why encourage selfishness and spendthrift behavior when rational planning, cooperation, and long-term plans and projects can be encouraged, with the wisdom, skills, knowledge, and resources built up over generation passed down and used well?


Because long-term wealth is often sat-upon and not spent, not put into the system.  Long-term wealth creates an artificial 'nobility class' in this country based on how rich you are and how 'long' your family has been rich.  Hell, it's so bad that they actually have terms like 'new money' to look down upon the rich people who haven't been rich LONG ENOUGH.

Because long-term wealth that isn't invested in the country is often bad for the country as a whole.  I'm a firm believer that if I were to hit it rich, I either need to find a way to invest it into the country and put it to work, or I need to lose most of it upon my death.

My kids?  I can pay for their college ahead of time and ensure that they get a leg up on life with as much education as they can handle and maybe even buy them a cheap home so that they don't have to worry about that sort of thing while they're going to college.  Everything else is stupid luxury and often 'bad' for people to have.  It breeds contempt for those who aren't rich.

Maybe that explains a little bit of why passing billions down through the generations is a bad thing for this country.
 
2013-08-10 03:54:22 PM  

Infernalist: RightToWork: Hobodeluxe: the person who thinks they are entitled to keep all their money. poor people pay the same for their gallon of gas or their bologna sandwich. and all of their income is taxed in sales taxes and other fees the utility companies charge them. they pay soc security tax on every dollar they make. rich people don't.

Today was my weekly trip to the grocery store where, as usual, I was the only person in line who actually purchased food with his own money. Tell me again how low-income individuals "pay the same" for their food. Perhaps you aren't aware, but they also frequently qualify for utility assistance.

You poor poor man, being the only person in line who had enough money to pay for his food without governmental assistance.  lol


Your sympathy is appreciated. I suffer from a rare affliction known as working. With SSDI enrollment skyrocketing, a less common disease in the United States than it once was.
 
2013-08-10 03:55:47 PM  

DubyaHater: NSA spying, Obamacare, impending tax hikes, record numbers mooching off the system, open borders, abortions at an all time high, Sharia law spreading its tentacles across the country, American way of life decaying before our eyes.......can anyone blame these people.


If you can afford to denounce your citizenship because you stored millions of dollars in offshore accounts, I am not sure that a $100/month for the healthcare mandate is really going to make that much different.

Besides NC just outlawed Sharia law and everything it encompasses. Wait till they find out that Sharia law strictly bans abortion.
 
2013-08-10 03:56:02 PM  

DubyaHater: NSA spying, Obamacare, impending tax hikes, record numbers mooching off the system, open borders, abortions at an all time high, Sharia law spreading its tentacles across the country, American way of life decaying before our eyes

Human sacrifice! Dogs and cats, living together!  Mass hysteria!  .....can anyone blame these people.
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2013-08-10 03:56:22 PM  

Princess Ryans Knickers: Number of unPatriotic moochers and corporate welfare queens renouncing US citizenship hits record high.


Yeah, 1,000 per year.  That's a reall epidemic all right.

losing 0.00033333333% of our population per year will leave us a desolate wasteland right about the time the sun burns out.
 
2013-08-10 03:58:58 PM  

leadmetal: Infernalist: The Founding Fathers described it as a social contract, where we all put in in order to partake in the comforts of civilized society.

And Ben Franklin had harsh words for those who didn't like paying their taxes while still partaking in society's comforts. He suggested that they get the fark out of America and go live in the wilds of the world.

Which is relevant to my argument exactly how? Am I supposed to consider these people gods or something? Or your interpretation of them correct?

Besides an attempt to invoke authority you are circling back to the services issue. If taxation was on par with services rendered it would make no sense to leave. However taxation exceeds the value of services one gets by a large enough margin, people leave for places where they get a better deal.

That is one of the ideas behind retaining the many states. People and capital would flow to the states which offered a better value while fleeing others that offered a worse value. This works on an international basis as well. The problem is not that people are fleeing, it is that the USA is no longer offering the best value for various people with the means and opportunity to get out.


They're a hell of a lot better than you, farker.  They gave up homes, wealth, titles, lost family and home and just about everything in order to form up a country with no real expectation that it'd work.  So, show them some farking respect, eh?

And if you think rich people have less to lose than poor folk, then you're arrogant 'and' a retard.

But, all of that is irrelevant when you break it right down to is basic facts: You're not an American.  You're just another rich fark who's wanting a better deal.  So, get the fark out and go live in China or Russia or Mexico or wherever you can 'get a better deal'.  You're not wanted, you're not needed.

Parasite.
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2013-08-10 04:01:50 PM  

leadmetal: .

The simple fact is that the "services" argument is bullshiat on plain logical basis. Arguing that people are renouncing citizenship to avoid paying for what they use is simply illogical. Trying to convert it into an equally bullshiat social contract argument doesn't help you any. What you are saying with a social contract argument is that by circumstances of birth a person is bound much like a slave or serf would be bound. Except not being bound to a specific master, but bound to an institution of state which supposedly represents the interests of his fellow slaves. We're back to punishing the runaway slave because any slave that runs away means the rest of us have to pick more cotton per person.


Well, people who want to avoid paying taxes on money they made in the US are certainly trying to avoid paying for services they use.  You can't live in the US without benefiting from the protection of the military and police and fire departments and the legal system.

And anyone who lives in the US and doesn't think they should pay taxes is certainly a parasite.
 
2013-08-10 04:02:07 PM  

Infernalist: But, all of that is irrelevant when you break it right down to is basic facts: You're not an American. You're just another rich fark who's wanting a better deal.


Exactly
 
2013-08-10 04:03:10 PM  
ManifestDestiny:

According to whomever it was I spoke with at the embassy, yes. If you renounce and then switch citizenships, you get a 10 year timeout.

Not true. You can just get a tourist visa and visit. I have a good friend who changed citizenship two years ago and he still visits the U.S. multiple times a year. The only thing is that you in theory can get blacklisted if the citizenship changed is deemed to have been purely for tax reasons, but in practice this is never enforced.  No idea what the 10 year limit is, maybe 10 years before you can apply for U.S. citizenship again?
 
2013-08-10 04:03:35 PM  

RightToWork: Infernalist: RightToWork: Hobodeluxe: the person who thinks they are entitled to keep all their money. poor people pay the same for their gallon of gas or their bologna sandwich. and all of their income is taxed in sales taxes and other fees the utility companies charge them. they pay soc security tax on every dollar they make. rich people don't.

Today was my weekly trip to the grocery store where, as usual, I was the only person in line who actually purchased food with his own money. Tell me again how low-income individuals "pay the same" for their food. Perhaps you aren't aware, but they also frequently qualify for utility assistance.

You poor poor man, being the only person in line who had enough money to pay for his food without governmental assistance.  lol

Your sympathy is appreciated. I suffer from a rare affliction known as working. With SSDI enrollment skyrocketing, a less common disease in the United States than it once was.


You are what is wrong with is country. And what is wrong with this species.

The fact that you don't understand that is what will destroy us. Your blithe ignorance merely serves to perpetuate your empty ideals.

I sincerely wish you would die as soon as possible, but the unfortunate truth is that you will probably successfully procreate and spawn an ugly demon cloned from your mind.

God Damn You. Literally and viscerally God Damn You.
 
2013-08-10 04:05:19 PM  

verbal_jizm: vpb: Robo Beat: One caveat: other countries don't necessarily calculate taxes in the same way.  In the US, everything is calculated as a percentage of gross income - X% in federal income taxes, Y% for state income taxes, Z% for local income taxes.  But here in France, for example, my income taxes are calculated as a percentage of the net that remains after they take out the withholdings for social security, medical, retirement, etc.  And that's a lot of money - up to a third of my pre-tax gross income, in fact.  So much so that if I were merely to claim the credit for the income tax I pay to the French government against my US tax liability (instead of the foreign earned income exclusion), I'd fall about $6,000 short on my US tax liabilities.

Now, the income tax scale here ramps up pretty quickly, so that you hit the top bracket with the 41% marginal rate at around 72,000€/year.  So if you're above the Earned Income Tax Credit, I believe you have a fair bit of headroom until you cross the line and start owing US taxes on top of French ones.  Needless to say, I'm not there yet.

The Foreign Earned Income Exemption is $97,600 for 2013.  And it sounds like the taxes in France are lower than I thought.

But as someone described above, if you use the FTC then you may be able to include foreign social security paid.


Not in France.  There's an equalization treaty in place specifically excluding the social security taxes I pay here from any kind of exemption or credit.  But on the other hand, IIRC I don't have to pay into the US social security system, but will still be able to collect on it if and when I retire to the US (assuming I give up my French pension, of course).

And the taxes here are indeed higher than in the States, though perhaps less than you had thought if I understand your post correctly.  Between the 33% off the top for my SS/Medical/retirement contributions and the 19.6% VAT, you feel the pinch.  And like any large organization, the government could be more efficient with the money they get.  But all in all, I feel it's worth it.  Or, put another way, I come a lot closer to getting my money's worth here than when I was living in and paying taxes to the US.
 
2013-08-10 04:05:25 PM  

RightToWork: Infernalist: RightToWork: Hobodeluxe: the person who thinks they are entitled to keep all their money. poor people pay the same for their gallon of gas or their bologna sandwich. and all of their income is taxed in sales taxes and other fees the utility companies charge them. they pay soc security tax on every dollar they make. rich people don't.

Today was my weekly trip to the grocery store where, as usual, I was the only person in line who actually purchased food with his own money. Tell me again how low-income individuals "pay the same" for their food. Perhaps you aren't aware, but they also frequently qualify for utility assistance.

You poor poor man, being the only person in line who had enough money to pay for his food without governmental assistance.  lol

Your sympathy is appreciated. I suffer from a rare affliction known as working. With SSDI enrollment skyrocketing, a less common disease in the United States than it once was.


You poor poor man.  I'll tell you what:  I'll look into getting someone to take your place, like in Trading Places.  You can go live in Section 8/Public Housing and live on welfare and public assistance and Tyrone will step up and take your place and live in your much better home, with your car and job.  Because you're plainly jealous of those Lucky Ducks who get by on food assistance and government help every month.

Retard.
 
2013-08-10 04:06:07 PM  

Yankees Team Gynecologist: leadmetal:

[i39.tinypic.com image 640x75]
In fact I am getting really tired of working well into May just to pay for unthankful indignant
people like yourself and/or those you champion.
[i43.tinypic.com image 640x144]


Ever stop and wonder what goes into determining your gross income?

If we lowered taxes so that you were "done" paying on January 2, do you really think your gross would remain the same?

Go ahead and check out some comps. Test the market. What other countries offer more and charge less?


Do you think that government monopolizing so many services is the only way things can be organized?  Of course you do, you cannot conceptualize anything differently. But for you, I know what men of my profession earned in 1905 or so where I presently live. Now converted by CPI to 2013 dollars that is a considerable increase over my present salary. However, in those barbaric times before all these government services that barbarous relic gold was used for money. In $20 gold pieces,  that becomes a few multiples of my present salary.  Also in those days savings gained buying power instead of lost it. Oh and not only that, back then it was before the income tax too... so I would get to keep it all making it even more on top of my present net salary.

So much for this system of corporate serfdom being a benefit to productive people.
 
2013-08-10 04:06:09 PM  
leadmetal:What you are saying with a social contract argument is that by circumstances of birth a person is bound much like a slave or serf would be bound. Except not being bound to a specific master, but bound to an institution of state which supposedly represents the interests of his fellow slaves. We're back to punishing the runaway slave because any slave that runs away means the rest of us have to pick more cotton per person.


Nope, you're not bound to anything at all.  You're free to go.  Nobody is stopping you.  You go wherever you think is better, and take my blessings and good will with you.  If you don't want to, or are not able to, take on the full responsibilities of a citizen, including paying taxes, then go.  Find your tax free paradise wherever you can.  Send us a postcard.
 
2013-08-10 04:08:59 PM  

vpb: Having another passport is not a requirement and there is no fee. You might have to pay some taxes if you are a high earner or are wealthy, but that's money earned while enjoying the benefits of US citizenship. Finding another country to take you might be a problem but it's not the fault of the USA and doesn't mean you aren't free to go be a stateless person.


Spoken like love it or leave it, ignoring all the practical concerns of the process.

Furthermore, the US federal government doesn't exactly approve the renouncing citizenship with no where to go. They tend not to is my understanding of the process.
 
2013-08-10 04:09:46 PM  

Infernalist: But, all of that is irrelevant when you break it right down to is basic facts: You're not an American. You're just another rich fark who's wanting a better deal. So, get the fark out and go live in China or Russia or Mexico or wherever you can 'get a better deal'. You're not wanted, you're not needed.

Parasite.


And therein lies the flaw with these conservatards: for all their talk about the "free market," they can never come up with a market comp example to back up their claim that personal income taxes are too high here.  Always complaining that this country is overpriced for what they're getting, but never showing what else is available.

They're like Corvette fans, except if no Corvette actually existed.
 
2013-08-10 04:14:57 PM  

jnapier: Hobodeluxe: jnapier: Nyaaa I'll take the Caymans where there are no taxes

 go live there. everything you buy that isn't made there is +25%.  almost +30% for automobiles.
there's 3 hospitals and one MRI machine for all the islands.
and they mandate health insurance for all residents.

Lemme do my math
Someone makes $1M.   The gov takes 39% plus 7.5% SS plus 4.5% ObamaCare plus 5% state
$1M less 56% tax is $460K
Live in Caymens where everything imported is 25% higher. (except some things are a LOT lower, but we will take your ludicrous statement as fact) and we get $750K spending power with no estate tax when I die.

That is of course if I live there 100%.  I could by a house, where they have no residency requirements and go live in, say Anywhere in America I want to.


You don't know how to calculate your taxes. Please don't be an accountant.

Your first $250,000 or so is taxed at a lower rate. Then there's another rate until $500,000 or something like that and then yet another higher rate after that. The 6.2% for SSN is taxed on the first $117,000. After
that, there's no more FICA tax. There is no Obamacare tax. There is Medicare/Medicaid, which is 1.45%, no limit (like FICA). There is also state and SUI/SDI, which varies depending on which state you live in: states with better infrastructure will charge some positive % rate. States with terrible infrastructure may charge nothing.
 
2013-08-10 04:19:12 PM  

leadmetal: Do you think that government monopolizing so many services is the only way things can be organized?


Right off the bat, a strawman--or at best a vague non-statement, since "so many" could mean a lot of things. Great start.

leadmetal: Of course you do, you cannot conceptualize anything differently. But for you, I know what men of my profession earned in 1905 or so where I presently live. Now converted by CPI to 2013 dollars that is a considerable increase over my present salary. However, in those barbaric times before all these government services that barbarous relic gold was used for money. In $20 gold pieces, that becomes a few multiples of my present salary. Also in those days savings gained buying power instead of lost it. Oh and not only that, back then it was before the income tax too... so I would get to keep it all making it even more on top of my present net salary.

So much for this system of corporate serfdom being a benefit to productive people.


So, your comp is the America of 1905--with that economy, that infrastructure, that human rights record, that political system?  That's even funnier than any realistic modern-day answer you could possibly provide.

Keep in mind that's pre-WWI, not just pre-WWII.  If you had gone back to 1955, you MIGHT be able to make a "good old days" argument (at least on behalf of white people) but of course even that wouldn't help your case:

blogs.lclark.edu
 
2013-08-10 04:19:19 PM  

BravadoGT: [momentsofexhilaration.files.wordpress.com image 324x324]



i651.photobucket.com
 
2013-08-10 04:20:52 PM  
This isn't just about hiding wealth overseas.  I bet most of these cases are Americans working overseas.  The US is the only country where you must pay income taxes no matter where that income happens to be.  So if you're a US Citizen, and gets a job making 100k in say Brazil for example, you have to pay 50k income tax to the Brazilian government AND 30+k income tax to Uncle Sam, leaving you with just 20k of your own money.  By renouncing your American citizenship, your spendable income goes up by 150%.
 
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