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(TaxProf)   Number of taxpayers who renounced U.S. citizenship hits record high. And that's not even counting Edward Snowden   (taxprof.typepad.com) divider line 355
    More: Interesting, U.S. Citizenship, hit records, U.S.  
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8070 clicks; posted to Main » on 10 Aug 2013 at 1:40 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-08-10 02:19:25 PM

Coming on a Bicycle: ManifestDestiny: flucto: ManifestDestiny: Actually, I find myself quite affected by this issue and it's not really what a lot of people think. Yeah, yeah...getting a kick out of this, etc.

I am a permanent resident of my host country and married to a native who is a government peon. The problem for ordinary people like me is that not only do I have to pay steep Norwegian taxes, I also have to give the US its pound of flesh calculated by the pre-Norwegian-tax gross. It's complicated enough that I'd have to hire an accountant (at Norwegian rates).

It is so expensive to be taxed twice over (plus all the costs that go into being employed like clothes, transportation, etc) that it's cheaper for my husband and myself if I just stay home and be a housewife. It's insane.

There was a point when I contemplated handing in my passport just so that I could work. But I as far as I understand, that would bar me from returning home to visit family for 10 years. It would be wrenching if a family member got seriously ill or died and I could not come home to see them or pay respects.

That's nonsense. Only cheap, selfish billionaires whine about the unfairness of the US tax system to Americans living outside the US. Everyone knows that. You're obviously a Republican shill.

I'll be sure to tell my stepmother. I'm sure she would be thrilled to hear that her pinko liberal space muffin step-daughter has seen the light.

Bar you from entering the US? Even on a tourist visa?


According to whomever it was I spoke with at the embassy, yes. If you renounce and then switch citizenships, you get a 10 year timeout.
 
2013-08-10 02:20:00 PM

violentsalvation: Okay, see ya. Stay out of the Middle East, most of Africa, Latin America and parts of Asia - because if anything happens to you we aren't coming to help.


Surprise!  Paying taxes won't get you any help, either!
 
2013-08-10 02:21:01 PM
I'm planning on doing it in the next year or so. Not for tax reasons, though. I'm not anti-tax. I'm just going to raise my children in a country that values a challenging education and that cares enough to offer healthcare to its citizens. Oh and if my kids are gay, it would be nice if they could marry without religious idiots sticking their noses in.
 
2013-08-10 02:21:03 PM
leadmetal:
FloydA: eah, um, no. If you're hiding your wealth in offshore accounts, you don't get to call yourself a taxpayer. GTFO and stop using up the services that the rest of us are paying for, you got dam parasites.

Most people doing this, do so to get their money out of the USA so the parasites can't get it.


Nope.  Try again.
 
2013-08-10 02:21:06 PM

jnapier: Carth: iheartscotch: This is why raising taxes on the rich to absurd levels won't work. Millionaires and billionaires can afford to move somewhere else and give the IRS the finger.

Export tax on wealth when renouncing citizenship. Say 80% should work.

I like this.  Soon we will have to start border patrols to keep the wealthy from leaving.
The new Obama America.  Illegal immigrant, no problem, common in we got lots.

Retiring worker who paid in to everything.  Nope, you cant leave (you have illegals to care for)
How did that work in East Germany again?


Establish a path to citizenship and today's illegal immigrants become tax paying citizens who can work there way up.  If someone who's made their fortune thanks to the infrastructure and support of the US economy wants to leave, they're free to do so, however they should pay an exit tax as they didn't build their fortune on their own.

When millionaires leave new ones will build themselves up to replace them.

For middle class people living abroad and renouncing due to IRS hassles - good for them too.  If you're living in Thailand/Germany/Sweden/Wherever and you plan on continuing to live there you should become a citizen of that country anyway.
 
2013-08-10 02:21:18 PM

ManifestDestiny: Actually, I find myself quite affected by this issue and it's not really what a lot of people think. Yeah, yeah...getting a kick out of this, etc.

I am a permanent resident of my host country and married to a native who is a government peon. The problem for ordinary people like me is that not only do I have to pay steep Norwegian taxes, I also have to give the US its pound of flesh calculated by the pre-Norwegian-tax gross. It's complicated enough that I'd have to hire an accountant (at Norwegian rates).

It is so expensive to be taxed twice over (plus all the costs that go into being employed like clothes, transportation, etc) that it's cheaper for my husband and myself if I just stay home and be a housewife. It's insane.

There was a point when I contemplated handing in my passport just so that I could work. But I as far as I understand, that would bar me from returning home to visit family for 10 years. It would be wrenching if a family member got seriously ill or died and I could not come home to see them or pay respects.




With that $88k+ ex-pat exemption+ deduction for local taxes, you must be pulling down some serious money.
 
2013-08-10 02:21:34 PM
I know Japan has low taxes compared to the US.

Some considerations:

People will always look on you as a curiosity.

They haven't accepted Chinese and Korean immigrants after 600 years of residence.

Your taxes are low, but the mortgage on your closet sized apartment will take three to four generations to pay off.

You may have to wear surgical masks to breathe.

You may have to pay $100 for a watermelon, or a three ounce Kobo beef "steak", just because it is disgustingly fatty.

You will have to learn Japanese.

You may be beaten up by left wing or far right wing protestors wearing body armor and helmets.

They kill whales every though they have thousands of tons of whale meat on ice that not even the Japanese want to eat.

About three quarters of the country is sacred forest, so your very costly paper comes from Brazil and the population of Canada is crowded into urban Tokyo (and that of California into Metro Tokyo).
 
2013-08-10 02:21:35 PM

Prophet of Loss: lantawa: Prophet of Loss: Thieves typically scuttle the ship as they depart once everything of value is secured.

Rats onboard tend to poop on and gnaw down everything of value that's been brought aboard a vessel by the capain and good crew.

They are also the first to jump ship when it sinks.


Well, blimey, yon Prophet!  We're certainly coming up with some capital ideas....Nigel, bring me my croquet mallet.
 
2013-08-10 02:22:09 PM

Hobodeluxe: iheartscotch: Hobodeluxe: iheartscotch: because, regulations in other states sufficate small business.

bullshiat. freaking subsidies and handouts to the big boys by the govt are why the little fish can't compete. they have to play by a different set of rules.

Frankly, it's almost impossible to start a business in the state of New York without being a millionaire already. The amount of licences, permits and whatever else is is daunting.

Contrast that with a red state. All you need to do is say to yourself, "self, I'd like to start a business". You could go incorperate a business on your lunch hour if you felt like it

that's funny I just had a friend in NY who incorporated himself and his IT business (him and his wife working from home for the most part, she is on there for health insurance savings only ) and it was amazing how easy it was and how much money he is saving.


Washington is a very blue state, and starting a business here is easy.  At least for a sole proprietorship or LLC; I would assume that forming a corporation is more complicated.
 
2013-08-10 02:22:17 PM

pedrop357: FloydA: The number of U.S. taxpayers renouncing citizenship or permanent-resident status surged to a record high in the second quarter, as new laws aimed at cracking down on overseas assets ...

Yeah, um, no.  If you're hiding your wealth in offshore accounts, you don't get to call yourself a taxpayer.  GTFO and stop using up the services that the rest of us are paying for, you got dam parasites.

Those same laws also apply to people who've lived in other countries for years and haven't even set foot in the US in years.  Foreign banks are choosing to simply not allow US residents to open accounts rather than deal with the US government or breach the privacy of their members.

There is more than one side to an issue.  You would do well to learn that.


If you interviewed those giving up their citizenship, I suspect that a large percentage would be people who live overseas and are shut out of the financial systems there because the US threatens the institutions with all kinds of mayhem if they don't toe the line regarding US citizens. Far easier (for the institution) to exclude them. So if you're going to stay there, you may as well jettison that baggage before it drags you under.
 
2013-08-10 02:22:48 PM

BafflerMeal: badhatharry: Carth: iheartscotch: This is why raising taxes on the rich to absurd levels won't work. Millionaires and billionaires can afford to move somewhere else and give the IRS the finger.

Export tax on wealth when renouncing citizenship. Say 80% should work.

This is why people are leaving now.

There is a financial reniuncement fee already, but i'm not sure how much it is. Also, and this is nuts, one can renounce, burn their passport, become a citizen of another country, and the us gov claims rights to your income for ten years after.


It runs 40% if your net assets are over $2 million.
 
2013-08-10 02:22:56 PM

dywed88: ManifestDestiny: Actually, I find myself quite affected by this issue and it's not really what a lot of people think. Yeah, yeah...getting a kick out of this, etc.

I am a permanent resident of my host country and married to a native who is a government peon. The problem for ordinary people like me is that not only do I have to pay steep Norwegian taxes, I also have to give the US its pound of flesh calculated by the pre-Norwegian-tax gross. It's complicated enough that I'd have to hire an accountant (at Norwegian rates).

It is so expensive to be taxed twice over (plus all the costs that go into being employed like clothes, transportation, etc) that it's cheaper for my husband and myself if I just stay home and be a housewife. It's insane.

There was a point when I contemplated handing in my passport just so that I could work. But I as far as I understand, that would bar me from returning home to visit family for 10 years. It would be wrenching if a family member got seriously ill or died and I could not come home to see them or pay respects.

If you are paying tax in the US on Norwegian income you are probably doing something wrong, and if Norwegian taxes are that low you don't have much to complain about. FEIE and FTCs should more than cover your US taxes in pretty much any developed nation barring some weird circumstances. If you have trusts or a corporation or certain types of investments, than you can get some expensive filings but if you just need a 1040, two 1116s and an FBAR it shouldn't be that bad. It is the information returns that are the real problem.


As I said to someone else, the information I got the last time I tried was that you paid on the gross. So either I was lied to or the staffers are incompetent. Either could be the case, really.
 
2013-08-10 02:24:10 PM

Shorelinefarker: Hobodeluxe: iheartscotch: Hobodeluxe: iheartscotch: because, regulations in other states sufficate small business.

bullshiat. freaking subsidies and handouts to the big boys by the govt are why the little fish can't compete. they have to play by a different set of rules.

Frankly, it's almost impossible to start a business in the state of New York without being a millionaire already. The amount of licences, permits and whatever else is is daunting.

Contrast that with a red state. All you need to do is say to yourself, "self, I'd like to start a business". You could go incorperate a business on your lunch hour if you felt like it

that's funny I just had a friend in NY who incorporated himself and his IT business (him and his wife working from home for the most part, she is on there for health insurance savings only ) and it was amazing how easy it was and how much money he is saving.

Washington is a very blue state, and starting a business here is easy.  At least for a sole proprietorship or LLC; I would assume that forming a corporation is more complicated.


yeah my friend did the LLC thing.
 
2013-08-10 02:26:06 PM

HempHead: ManifestDestiny: Actually, I find myself quite affected by this issue and it's not really what a lot of people think. Yeah, yeah...getting a kick out of this, etc.

I am a permanent resident of my host country and married to a native who is a government peon. The problem for ordinary people like me is that not only do I have to pay steep Norwegian taxes, I also have to give the US its pound of flesh calculated by the pre-Norwegian-tax gross. It's complicated enough that I'd have to hire an accountant (at Norwegian rates).

It is so expensive to be taxed twice over (plus all the costs that go into being employed like clothes, transportation, etc) that it's cheaper for my husband and myself if I just stay home and be a housewife. It's insane.

There was a point when I contemplated handing in my passport just so that I could work. But I as far as I understand, that would bar me from returning home to visit family for 10 years. It would be wrenching if a family member got seriously ill or died and I could not come home to see them or pay respects.


With that $88k+ ex-pat exemption+ deduction for local taxes, you must be pulling down some serious money.


LOLNOPE.  I am pulling in no money at all and we live off my husband's modest salary.
 
2013-08-10 02:27:14 PM

Hobodeluxe: that's what I call people who want the benefits of living here but don't want to pay the taxes.
parasites


If people were paying for the services they use, then there is no need for government services, only market services. People would not be leaving if they only paid for what they used. The fact is government is required to make people pay for services -other- people use. So what you're voicing displeasure about is that the people paying the taxes to subsidize things you want to use but not pay for (or only pay a reduced price for) have decided to leave and not subsidize you any longer. So who is the parasite?
 
2013-08-10 02:29:29 PM

JasonOfOrillia: Rwa2play: propasaurus: So, just a bunch of takers.

This.

So, if they are residing overseas and have taken out citizenship there then what are they taking from the United States?


Only two things really; a security blanket feeling of protection, and the right to come back with your citizenship instead of a green card and a ridiculously long wait. (usually 20-40 years if at all)
 
2013-08-10 02:30:32 PM

FloydA: leadmetal:
FloydA: eah, um, no. If you're hiding your wealth in offshore accounts, you don't get to call yourself a taxpayer. GTFO and stop using up the services that the rest of us are paying for, you got dam parasites.

Most people doing this, do so to get their money out of the USA so the parasites can't get it.

Nope.  Try again.


Well there is avoiding the police state, the fact they are living elsewhere already and don't need the IRS farking with them (which is the long version of the above), and the economic decline of the USA, which again is related. But this fark, so keeping things simple is key.
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2013-08-10 02:32:03 PM

ManifestDestiny: It is so expensive to be taxed twice over (plus all the costs that go into being employed like clothes, transportation, etc) that it's cheaper for my husband and myself if I just stay home and be a housewife. It's insane.

There was a point when I contemplated handing in my passport just so that I could work. But I as far as I understand, that would bar me from returning home to visit family for 10 years. It would be wrenching if a family member got seriously ill or died and I could not come home to see them or pay respects.


Uh, no.  I have lived overseas myself, and it doesn't work that way.

You aren't "taxed twice over", unless you just don't bother to take the Foreign Tax Credit.  If you pay more taxes in Norway than in the US you should owe nothing in taxes to the IRS.
 
2013-08-10 02:32:09 PM

leadmetal: Hobodeluxe: that's what I call people who want the benefits of living here but don't want to pay the taxes.
parasites

If people were paying for the services they use, then there is no need for government services, only market services. People would not be leaving if they only paid for what they used. The fact is government is required to make people pay for services -other- people use. So what you're voicing displeasure about is that the people paying the taxes to subsidize things you want to use but not pay for (or only pay a reduced price for) have decided to leave and not subsidize you any longer. So who is the parasite?


the person who thinks they are entitled to keep all their money. poor people pay the same for their gallon of gas or their bologna sandwich. and all of their income is taxed in sales taxes and other fees the utility companies charge them. they pay soc security tax on every dollar they make. rich people don't.
 
2013-08-10 02:32:33 PM
You still have to pay US tax for 10 years.
 
2013-08-10 02:33:13 PM

ManifestDestiny: That must be a very new development because that directly conflicts with the information I got the last time I pulled my hair out trying to figure out my tax situation. I thank you very sincerely for the advice, tho I'm not sure the wages I could pull would cover my costs.  I'll look into this and run the numbers again!


If you make less than 100k and don't have investments in your name, claim a Section 911 foreign earned income exclusion. If you make more or have significant investment income, claim an Foreign Tax Credit (FTC) on form 1116. Assuming Norwegian tax rates are higher than US, that should eliminate all US taxes on Norwegian income no matter the amount of income or the source. If you have US source income, Norway will provide an FTC to offset it. Now, the return will likely cost a couple grand to prepare, but you should net more than that at a job.

For the vast majority of people, if you pay tax in multiple countries you will just pay the higher of the two tax rates.

dr-shotgun: I'm a dual US/Canadian citizen (who's never lived in Canada, my mother became a US citizen after I was born). Canadian tax rates are, on the whole, about the same as what my US tax rates would be.


Canadian tax rates are almost always higher than the US. Certain exceptions, such as single, very high income earners in California vs Alberta. But for the vast majority of people your taxes in Canada will be higher even before considering sales tax.
 
2013-08-10 02:33:24 PM

BravadoGT: [momentsofexhilaration.files.wordpress.com image 324x324]


Bye Bye.
I'm sure they all think they're John Galts, reluctantly denying their valuable services to a society that will sorely miss them.
I will be absolutely amazed if we even notice they're gone.
 
2013-08-10 02:33:48 PM

buckler: The funny thing is that, according to law, you can only renounce your citizenship outside the US, at a foreign embassy or consulate.


That's just common sense. You don't want some f***er pranking the system. I'd imagine it takes more than one visit, too.
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2013-08-10 02:33:55 PM

flucto: There was a point when I contemplated handing in my passport just so that I could work. But I as far as I understand, that would bar me from returning home to visit family for 10 years. It would be wrenching if a family member got seriously ill or died and I could not come home to see them or pay respects.

That's nonsense. Only cheap, selfish billionaires whine about the unfairness of the US tax system to Americans living outside the US. Everyone knows that. You're obviously a Republican shill.


Or trolls. Maybe people who believe what they read on Investors.com
 
2013-08-10 02:33:55 PM

vpb: ManifestDestiny: It is so expensive to be taxed twice over (plus all the costs that go into being employed like clothes, transportation, etc) that it's cheaper for my husband and myself if I just stay home and be a housewife. It's insane.

There was a point when I contemplated handing in my passport just so that I could work. But I as far as I understand, that would bar me from returning home to visit family for 10 years. It would be wrenching if a family member got seriously ill or died and I could not come home to see them or pay respects.

Uh, no.  I have lived overseas myself, and it doesn't work that way.

You aren't "taxed twice over", unless you just don't bother to take the Foreign Tax Credit.  If you pay more taxes in Norway than in the US you should owe nothing in taxes to the IRS.


As I've said to someone else, I think I've either been lied to or the victim of incompetent embassy staffers.
 
2013-08-10 02:34:00 PM
Good job, Obama
 
2013-08-10 02:34:41 PM

ManifestDestiny: Coming on a Bicycle: ManifestDestiny: flucto: ManifestDestiny: Bar you from entering the US? Even on a tourist visa?

According to whomever it was I spoke with at the embassy, yes. If you renounce and then switch citizenships, you get a 10 year timeout.


Wow, that's even worse than I thought. I just thought you'd get put at the back of the line for a green card.
 
2013-08-10 02:35:52 PM

RandomAxe: iheartscotch: You'd have to do it in the more "bootstrappy" states; because, regulations in other states sufficate small business.

/ one example is taxi placards; last I knew, it cost a New York cab company $1 million per placard

LOL. It's not regulations and greedy bureaucrats who have driven up the medallion cost in NYC. It's greedy millionaire cab medallion owners. A medallion is very expensive but typically returns about 5-7% in gains per year on the original investment while also gaining value. Rich people compete over things like that and have no desire to let new players into that game.

You can google this example pretty easily. And, in fact, it's pretty typical. Giant corporations have the money for new start-up locations and don't want small businesses horning in, so they lobby to have regulations established that crush smaller competitors. Government regulations are the tool, not the enemy.


So greedy that they cost themselves extra money? It is still a part of the regulation. What possible harm would it entail to lower the price to $100,000?
 
2013-08-10 02:37:06 PM

pedrop357: Those same laws also apply to people who've lived in other countries for years and haven't even set foot in the US in years. Foreign banks are choosing to simply not allow US residents to open accounts rather than deal with the US government or breach the privacy of their members.

There is more than one side to an issue. You would do well to learn that.


Clearly you've got some learning to do on your own.  If these people were to actually pay comparable taxes in the countries in which they reside, they could offset the amount paid in foreign taxes from their US taxes.  That doesn't work for them because they're mostly living in tax havens.

These rich assholes don't want to pay any tax, anywhere.

Many of them like having their cake and eating it too.  US citizenship is a great fallback.    You think these folks wouldn't come running and screaming back to the good ole' USA if the paradise they're living in turned to shiat?

These people SHOULD have to choose.  If they want US citizenship, they should pay taxes, somewhere.  They are freeloaders.
 
2013-08-10 02:37:56 PM

Aristocles: This is what happens in Obama's America.

Any questions?


How do we get the rest of the tax cheats to leave?
 
2013-08-10 02:38:19 PM

brantgoose: I know Japan has low taxes compared to the US.

Some considerations:

People will always look on you as a curiosity.

They haven't accepted Chinese and Korean immigrants after 600 years of residence.

Your taxes are low, but the mortgage on your closet sized apartment will take three to four generations to pay off.

You may have to wear surgical masks to breathe.

You may have to pay $100 for a watermelon, or a three ounce Kobo beef "steak", just because it is disgustingly fatty.

You will have to learn Japanese.

You may be beaten up by left wing or far right wing protestors wearing body armor and helmets.

They kill whales every though they have thousands of tons of whale meat on ice that not even the Japanese want to eat.

About three quarters of the country is sacred forest, so your very costly paper comes from Brazil and the population of Canada is crowded into urban Tokyo (and that of California into Metro Tokyo).


I may have benefited from being blonde (at the time) but I never got beat up when I was living in Japan. My experience was the girls and women went nutso over me due to my baby face and blonde hair. I remember one time my class went on a field trip to a Japanese school and I was the first to walk into the classroom. As soon as they saw me, they screamed (dunno if it was from terror or from joy). Since I was a stupid kid, I ran out.

/golden-brown hair now
//nobody screams when they see me these days...
 
2013-08-10 02:38:22 PM

FloydA: iheartscotch: This is why raising taxes on the rich to absurd levels won't work. Millionaires and billionaires can afford to move somewhere else and give the IRS the finger.

Let me ask a serious question.  Mitt Romney pays about 14% taxes on his income, and I pay about 30% on my much smaller income.  Why is it "absurd" to want us both to pay the same rate?


Well, since you are serious. You are paying income tax on wages earned. Mitt is paying capital gains tax on returns on investments.  Mitt would pay 30% if he earned a wage at a job. You would pay about 14% if you cashed out your 401K.
 
2013-08-10 02:39:42 PM

FloydA: iheartscotch: This is why raising taxes on the rich to absurd levels won't work. Millionaires and billionaires can afford to move somewhere else and give the IRS the finger.

Let me ask a serious question.  Mitt Romney pays about 14% taxes on his income, and I pay about 30% on my much smaller income.  Why is it "absurd" to want us both to pay the same rate?


If you made more than 50% of your "income" from Capital Gains, you wouldn't have a 30% tax rate either.

That's not Romney's fault, that's the fault of our tax system.
 
2013-08-10 02:40:56 PM

ManifestDestiny: Actually, I find myself quite affected by this issue and it's not really what a lot of people think. Yeah, yeah...getting a kick out of this, etc.

I am a permanent resident of my host country and married to a native who is a government peon. The problem for ordinary people like me is that not only do I have to pay steep Norwegian taxes, I also have to give the US its pound of flesh calculated by the pre-Norwegian-tax gross. It's complicated enough that I'd have to hire an accountant (at Norwegian rates).

It is so expensive to be taxed twice over (plus all the costs that go into being employed like clothes, transportation, etc) that it's cheaper for my husband and myself if I just stay home and be a housewife. It's insane.

There was a point when I contemplated handing in my passport just so that I could work. But I as far as I understand, that would bar me from returning home to visit family for 10 years. It would be wrenching if a family member got seriously ill or died and I could not come home to see them or pay respects.


Why can't embassies, foreign relations, and American installations abroad be free?  Then you could enjoy your citizenship benefits without any cost.
 
2013-08-10 02:41:46 PM

Southern100: That's not Romney's fault, that's the fault of our tax system.


Romney is one of the people who crafted that system.
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2013-08-10 02:41:46 PM

ManifestDestiny: Bar you from entering the US? Even on a tourist visa?

According to whomever it was I spoke with at the embassy, yes. If you renounce and then switch citizenships, you get a 10 year timeout.


If you specifically state that you are doing it for tax purposes.  If you say it's in protest of the Iraq war or something then no.
 
2013-08-10 02:42:12 PM

vpb: Uh, no. I have lived overseas myself, and it doesn't work that way.

You aren't "taxed twice over", unless you just don't bother to take the Foreign Tax Credit. If you pay more taxes in Norway than in the US you should owe nothing in taxes to the IRS.


Exactly right.  The taxes in places like Norway are far higher than they are in the US.  Perhaps outside some very exceptional circumstances, no US citizen living in Norway should have to pay any US tax.  If you are, it's time to get a new accountant.
 
2013-08-10 02:42:48 PM

ManifestDestiny: There was a point when I contemplated handing in my passport just so that I could work. But I as far as I understand, that would bar me from returning home to visit family for 10 years. It would be wrenching if a family member got seriously ill or died and I could not come home to see them or pay respects.


What the pluck? AFAIK that's only if you're switching to a notax jurisdiction and taking your money with you AND State or IRS finds out, then they bar you from re-entry. How many millions of moneybucks were you planning to run away with?
 
2013-08-10 02:43:25 PM
Some people don't base their lives around national boundaries, and want to live wherever without being penalized for it. The US is about the only western government on the planet that doesn't comprehend this. If a person makes a living in a foreign country, under what right does the US have claim to a share? Are we really going to run with the juvenile concept that it's a membership fee of some kind?
 
2013-08-10 02:44:50 PM

Hobodeluxe: Deep Contact: Someone has to pay for Obummers vacations.

[thenevadaview.com image 700x843]


The point is pay for the cost not the frequency.  How much do Obama and family vacations to Hawaii, Africa etc cost compared to Crawford Texas.

 Or put another way 1 trip to Hawaii pays for how many trips to Crawford?
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2013-08-10 02:44:56 PM

TuteTibiImperes: For middle class people living abroad and renouncing due to IRS hassles - good for them too.  If you're living in Thailand/Germany/Sweden/Wherever and you plan on continuing to live there you should become a citizen of that country anyway.


I don't think it is even an issue for middle class people unless they live in somewhere with no income tax like Monaco.  This "exit tax" people complain about is only on assets over $2 million.

Spin pieces like this tend to leave out important details like that and foreign tax credit.
 
2013-08-10 02:45:15 PM

propasaurus: So, just a bunch of takers.


I wasn't aware the majority renouncing were occupiers.
 
2013-08-10 02:45:43 PM

Alphakronik: Aristocles: This is what happens in Obama's America.

Any questions?

How do we get the rest of the tax cheats to leave?


At least those cheats will be contributing something. I seem to remember ObamaCare was going to be "budget neutral" due to projected increases in tax revenues. What now?
 
2013-08-10 02:46:56 PM
They must be part of the freeloading 47%
 
2013-08-10 02:47:00 PM

FloydA: iheartscotch: This is why raising taxes on the rich to absurd levels won't work. Millionaires and billionaires can afford to move somewhere else and give the IRS the finger.

Let me ask a serious question.  Mitt Romney pays about 14% taxes on his income, and I pay about 30% on my much smaller income.  Why is it "absurd" to want us both to pay the same rate?


The same reason Al Gore gets into his private plane to go to his speaking engagements. Because, at the end of the day, they have more influence on the system then just about anybody else. Also, they have legions of flunkies to do their bidding.
 
2013-08-10 02:47:41 PM

leadmetal: FloydA: leadmetal:
FloydA: eah, um, no. If you're hiding your wealth in offshore accounts, you don't get to call yourself a taxpayer. GTFO and stop using up the services that the rest of us are paying for, you got dam parasites.

Most people doing this, do so to get their money out of the USA so the parasites can't get it.

Nope.  Try again.

Well there is avoiding the police state, the fact they are living elsewhere already and don't need the IRS farking with them (which is the long version of the above), and the economic decline of the USA, which again is related. But this fark, so keeping things simple is key.



OK, so you started from the assumption that the US is a police state and the government is stealing people's money and providing nothing in return.  These are demonstrably and obviously false claims, so your premises are crap, and any conclusion you draw from them will be false.

Now you've moved on to claiming that the USA is in economic decline (without, I might add, noting that cause of our current economic problems is the supply side "Reaganomics" nonsense), failing to note that we're actually doing far better than nearly everyone else.

You are still embarrassingly unaware that nobody wants to stop all the "bootstrappy" types from leaving (except perhaps for the nations that you plan on moving to).  You just go on dreaming the apocalyptic dream that society will collapse when you all move to Galt's Gulch.

Go.  Please go.  We won't miss you.  The people who refuse to pay taxes in the US should not have the benefits of US citizenship.   If you're honestly under the impression that the benefits aren't worth the costs, I wholeheartedly encourage you to leave and renounce your citizenship.  Go.  Good riddance.  Need help packing?
 
2013-08-10 02:48:28 PM

Rand's lacy underwear: ManifestDestiny: There was a point when I contemplated handing in my passport just so that I could work. But I as far as I understand, that would bar me from returning home to visit family for 10 years. It would be wrenching if a family member got seriously ill or died and I could not come home to see them or pay respects.

What the pluck? AFAIK that's only if you're switching to a notax jurisdiction and taking your money with you AND State or IRS finds out, then they bar you from re-entry. How many millions of moneybucks were you planning to run away with?


Enough to buy all the midget porn ever made.

Heh.  Not really.  I moved with two suitcases and the clothes on my back. And maybe $200 in my pocket after withdrawing whatever was left after a shoestring wedding.
 
2013-08-10 02:48:50 PM

badhatharry: Well, since you are serious. You are paying income tax on wages earned. Mitt is paying capital gains tax on returns on investments. Mitt would pay 30% if he earned a wage at a job. You would pay about 14% if you cashed out your 401K.


You fail to point out that Mittens purposefully arranged to receive the majority of wages in investment income in order to reduce his tax burden.  If a small businessman moves the majority of his salary to 100k in investment income, the IRS will step on his weener.  If the CEO of a private equity does that with 100 million in investment income, no problem.

The easy fix would be to grade all received money as income, no matter the source.  Wages = income.  Dividends = income.  Inheritance = income.

That single fix would solve most of our debt issues.
 
2013-08-10 02:49:01 PM

gaslight: buckler: The funny thing is that, according to law, you can only renounce your citizenship outside the US, at a foreign embassy or consulate.

That's just common sense. You don't want some f***er pranking the system. I'd imagine it takes more than one visit, too.


It's "common sense" that the government can refuse to acknowledge your decision to renounce citizenship, and continue taking your money? That's like Comcast saying they refuse to disconnect your service and sending a collection agency after you.

/this coming from a guy who doesn't mind paying taxes and believes in progressive taxation
//but it's a breech of basic human rights to dictate citizenship to a person
 
2013-08-10 02:49:16 PM
If you are living outside the U.S. and have no plans to ever return, why are you playing U.S. taxes?  Why not just become a citizen of what ever nation you are staying in?  Yeah, I know that it's extremely difficult and expensive and time consuming (someone told me that to become an Australian resident, you have to live in Australia for two years without a job and show proof that you can afford to do that before arriving), but if you've been overseas for the past five years and have no plans to ever return, why not pursue it?
 
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