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(Fox News)   Fox News flips out that Matt Damon sends his kids to private school   (foxnews.com) divider line 269
    More: Obvious, Matt Damon, Fox News, private schools, Hannah, Sean Hannity  
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3082 clicks; posted to Politics » on 09 Aug 2013 at 8:21 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



269 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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2013-08-09 07:37:26 AM
Fox News flips out over anything is pretty much neither news nor a shock to anyone.

/We flip out.  You decide.
 
2013-08-09 08:23:37 AM
I can only imagine their reaction when they find out what they eat, after supporting so much food aid to the third world.  Why aren't they eating highly concentrated cardboard nutrients?!  God damn hollywood hypocrites.
 
2013-08-09 08:23:43 AM
And he is neither black nor gay nor female. What liberal values can he really believe?
 
2013-08-09 08:24:13 AM
If Matt Damon doesn't go to jail for this, or at least has to sit in a hot cop car with the windows up for eight hours, then it pretty much shows this country is turning into a police state.
 
2013-08-09 08:24:34 AM
No clicks for dicks!

Would anyone who suffered through this be kind enough to summarize (beyond a simple "derp")?
 
2013-08-09 08:25:06 AM
MAAAAAAAAAAAATT DAAAAMOOOON
 
2013-08-09 08:25:29 AM
Let me guess the school in question does not teach the kids that jeebus rode dinosaurs.
 
2013-08-09 08:25:54 AM
...I assume the outrage is that Matt Damon isn't demanding a taxpayer-funded voucher to cover their private tuition?
 
2013-08-09 08:26:17 AM
I find this confusing. You can't be an advocate of public schools if you send your kids to private schools? I'm an advocate of strong public schools, but I went to a private high school. Does that make me a hypocrite? Why does wanting everyone to get a good education regardless of wealth make me a hypocrite?
 
2013-08-09 08:26:21 AM
Looks like Fox News trolls right-wing Facebook pages for memes they can turn into stories.  This "expose" has been around for a couple of weeks.
 
2013-08-09 08:29:01 AM

clkeagle: ...I assume the outrage is that Matt Damon isn't demanding a taxpayer-funded voucher to cover their private tuition?


That's a bingo.
 
2013-08-09 08:29:39 AM
"This is a rush transcript from "Hannity,"


aaaaaaand I stopped reading right there.
 
2013-08-09 08:29:48 AM

Ivandrago: I find this confusing. You can't be an advocate of public schools if you send your kids to private schools? I'm an advocate of strong public schools, but I went to a private high school. Does that make me a hypocrite? Why does wanting everyone to get a good education regardless of wealth make me a hypocrite?


Yep. My take on what Damon was trying to say is he had a great public education but he has seen that decline a lot. That's why he put his kids in private school, so that they would get a good education while trying to find a school that wasn't stuck up so his kids can get an education and experience that he had as a kid.
 
2013-08-09 08:30:45 AM

clkeagle: ...I assume the outrage is that Matt Damon isn't demanding a taxpayer-funded voucher to cover their private tuition?


If you think there should be some sort of minimum standard of living for people, you are a hypocrite if you do not live at that exact same level.
 
2013-08-09 08:31:20 AM

clkeagle: ...I assume the outrage is that Matt Damon isn't demanding a taxpayer-funded voucher to cover their private tuition?


This.
,
You put it much better than me. Hannity wants to destroy the public schools by removing their money. Matt Damon has taken no money from the public school system and left it for the other kids who need it
 
2013-08-09 08:31:27 AM
But, it's still cool to home-school your kids to keep them safe from those people and to re-establish the strong academic tradition of 2+2 = Jeebus, which the heathen public schools are scared to teach, right?
 
2013-08-09 08:31:34 AM
Whoops - quoted the wrong post, meant to quote:

Ivandrago: Does that make me a hypocrite? Why does wanting everyone to get a good education regardless of wealth make me a hypocrite?

 
2013-08-09 08:32:20 AM

Ivandrago: I find this confusing. You can't be an advocate of public schools if you send your kids to private schools? I'm an advocate of strong public schools, but I went to a private high school. Does that make me a hypocrite? Why does wanting everyone to get a good education regardless of wealth make me a hypocrite?


According to Sean Hannity, you're a hypocrite.  And your feet smell.  And you probably eat your boogers, too.
 
2013-08-09 08:32:39 AM
on the plus side, that article reminded me of the awesome smackdown Damon delivered on that other reporter a few years ago about working hard.
 
2013-08-09 08:33:55 AM
If only they show the same level of scrutiny when a Conservative is found balls deep in a twink.
 
2013-08-09 08:34:40 AM

ActionJoe: Ivandrago: I find this confusing. You can't be an advocate of public schools if you send your kids to private schools? I'm an advocate of strong public schools, but I went to a private high school. Does that make me a hypocrite? Why does wanting everyone to get a good education regardless of wealth make me a hypocrite?

Yep. My take on what Damon was trying to say is he had a great public education but he has seen that decline a lot. That's why he put his kids in private school, so that they would get a good education while trying to find a school that wasn't stuck up so his kids can get an education and experience that he had as a kid.


I had a great elementary education at public school and a terrible middle school education at a public school. The public high school I was zoned for was horrid as well and my parents decided I'd be better served by a private, single-sex catholic school. I wouldn't trade my crappy public middle school experience for anything. It may have been bad, but it was fun as hell at the time. 
I have a feeling if Damon had decided to send his kid to private school for religious reasons (Christian, of course) Hannity would have been hard pressed to complain about that.
 
2013-08-09 08:36:24 AM

PC LOAD LETTER: If only they show the same level of scrutiny when a Conservative is found balls deep in a twink.


That's just an honest mistake... Jeebus will forgive them.
 
2013-08-09 08:36:51 AM

Ivandrago: I find this confusing. You can't be an advocate of public schools if you send your kids to private schools? I'm an advocate of strong public schools, but I went to a private high school. Does that make me a hypocrite? Why does wanting everyone to get a good education regardless of wealth make me a hypocrite?


I think it's the lack of a good education and graduation rates in many schools that concern people.
 Not the pursuit of a good education.
Matt Damon and others only reinforce the same policies and administration that have left millions trapped in a poverty,
These families are living the broken earth while he is the one actually living in Elysium.

Waiting for Superman addressed all this crap but was ignored and buried .http://youtu.be/ZKTfaro96dg

It's easier to just "derp" Romney "derp" republicans "derp" white guys. Rather than dig in and do the real work.
Matt Damon didn't change one damn thing with his little feel good speech.
 
2013-08-09 08:37:12 AM

Dog Welder: Ivandrago: I find this confusing. You can't be an advocate of public schools if you send your kids to private schools? I'm an advocate of strong public schools, but I went to a private high school. Does that make me a hypocrite? Why does wanting everyone to get a good education regardless of wealth make me a hypocrite?

According to Sean Hannity, you're a hypocrite.  And your feet smell.  And you probably eat your boogers, too.


Does he? We don't know. We're only asking questions.

We reached out to Ivandrago to allow him to defend himself on these allegations of smelly feet and booger eating, but we have yet to hear back from him.

*smarmy look into the camera as I pick up my blackberry which has magically and conveniently appeared on my desk within camera shot*

Ivandrago, my phone's right here. It's not ringing.

*last faux resigned look into the camera with a taste of "I told you so"*

*segwey into some crap about my radio show and up next: Greta Van Sustren*
 
2013-08-09 08:41:18 AM
 
2013-08-09 08:44:42 AM

Dr.Mxyzptlk.: Ivandrago: I find this confusing. You can't be an advocate of public schools if you send your kids to private schools? I'm an advocate of strong public schools, but I went to a private high school. Does that make me a hypocrite? Why does wanting everyone to get a good education regardless of wealth make me a hypocrite?

I think it's the lack of a good education and graduation rates in many schools that concern people.
 Not the pursuit of a good education.
Matt Damon and others only reinforce the same policies and administration that have left millions trapped in a poverty,
These families are living the broken earth while he is the one actually living in Elysium.

Waiting for Superman addressed all this crap but was ignored and buried .http://youtu.be/ZKTfaro96dg

It's easier to just "derp" Romney "derp" republicans "derp" white guys. Rather than dig in and do the real work.
Matt Damon didn't change one damn thing with his little feel good speech.


The fundamental problem has been shown, over and over again by those who actually study it to be poverty, not the "quality" of the schools. You fix poverty, you fix education. Of course there are powerful groups in this country who have a vested interest in ignoring this and instead blaming the "schools" by which they usually mean teachers.
 
2013-08-09 08:44:56 AM

Ivandrago: I find this confusing. You can't be an advocate of public schools if you send your kids to private schools?


And while we're at it, why doesn't this make libertarians hypocrites if they go to a public school?  Doesn't this very simple line of thought go both ways?
 
2013-08-09 08:49:36 AM

Xcott: Ivandrago: I find this confusing. You can't be an advocate of public schools if you send your kids to private schools?

And while we're at it, why doesn't this make libertarians hypocrites if they go to a public school?  Doesn't this very simple line of thought go both ways?


It also doesn't make them hypocrites when they're on government assistance. Right, Ayn?
 
2013-08-09 08:50:08 AM

Xcott: Ivandrago: I find this confusing. You can't be an advocate of public schools if you send your kids to private schools?

And while we're at it, why doesn't this make libertarians hypocrites if they go to a public school?  Doesn't this very simple line of thought go both ways?


I never thought about that one.

New demographic to mock: libertarians who continued to take out federal student loans and attend public universities after forming their so-called political ideology.
 
2013-08-09 08:53:04 AM
Also, this exchange is baffling:

DAMON:  A teacher wants to teach. Why else would you take a (EXPLETIVE) salary and really long hours and do that job?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Aren't 10 percent bad though? Ten percent of teachers are bad.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Where'd you get that number?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ten percent of people in any profession maybe should think of something else.


So public education has some percent of underperformers that you'd expect to occur naturally in any industry or profession.  Therefore public education is bad, broken and dysfunctional and must be defunded.

In other shocking news 15% of people who consume GMO crops have IQ 95 or lower, and that 40% of all sick days are taken on mondays and fridays.
 
2013-08-09 08:53:42 AM

eiger: The fundamental problem has been shown, over and over again by those who actually study it to be poverty, not the "quality" of the schools. You fix poverty, you fix education. Of course there are powerful groups in this country who have a vested interest in ignoring this and instead blaming the "schools" by which they usually mean teachers.


Exactly, and education is one of the means through which poverty becomes generational.  Tying the funding of schools to property taxes ensures that rich communities get rich schools and poor communities get underfunded schools.
 
2013-08-09 08:54:16 AM

Xcott: And while we're at it, why doesn't this make libertarians hypocrites if they go to a public school?  Doesn't this very simple line of thought go both ways?


The argument that many libertarians would make is that it would be idiotic not to take advantage of a service that you are paying for.  Basically - I disagree with this whole process, but unfortunately I pay taxes to fund the school, so I can avail myself of its use if I want to.
 
2013-08-09 08:57:45 AM

clkeagle: ...I assume the outrage is that Matt Damon isn't demanding a taxpayer-funded voucher to cover their private tuition?


Voucher people piss me the fark off. They piss me off more than the idiots who go, "Well, I don't have any kids in school, why should I pay school taxes?" The latter group of idiots are just simply selfish, but no one takes them seriously. We can all agree that  everyone benefits from an educated populace, and  that is why we pay school taxes.

Voucher people have the same level of selfishness, but now they want to not only take money from the public school system, but pump it into the private school system, and they can dress it up with words like "competition", "choice", "freedom", and especially  "religious freedom". These idiots get taken seriously, and we have municipalities having serious debates over what is one of the worst ideas in education or municipal fiscal management  ever.
 
2013-08-09 09:00:25 AM

ActionJoe: Ivandrago: I find this confusing. You can't be an advocate of public schools if you send your kids to private schools? I'm an advocate of strong public schools, but I went to a private high school. Does that make me a hypocrite? Why does wanting everyone to get a good education regardless of wealth make me a hypocrite?

Yep. My take on what Damon was trying to say is he had a great public education but he has seen that decline a lot. That's why he put his kids in private school, so that they would get a good education while trying to find a school that wasn't stuck up so his kids can get an education and experience that he had as a kid.


What a monster, amiright?
 
2013-08-09 09:00:35 AM
Sean Hannity argues for a strong national defense yet never served.

Oh, and wake me up when this clown keeps his word and gets waterboarded for the troops he claims to care so deeply about.
 
2013-08-09 09:00:51 AM
I'm a public school teacher and do not foresee that my child will attend public school after 3rd grade. Even that's looking sketchy as we're in NC, where the Republican legislature has just gutted public schools to fund vouchers for charter and homeschools (read: "Jesus Camps").
 
2013-08-09 09:03:17 AM
From the Hannity promo on the page:

Ann Coulter reacts.

Obviously Fox's answer to Jesus wept.  and one of the shortest but truest job descriptions of all Fox "news" talent and the summary of content of all their "news" shows.
 
2013-08-09 09:03:50 AM

MattStafford: The argument that many libertarians would make is that it would be idiotic not to take advantage of a service that you are paying for.  Basically - I disagree with this whole process, but unfortunately I pay taxes to fund the school, so I can avail myself of its use if I want to.


Ah. the good ole' Rand-ian Social Security Manuever.
 
2013-08-09 09:03:54 AM

The Drawing Board: Oh, and wake me up when this clown keeps his word and gets waterboarded for the troops he claims to care so deeply about.


Are you kidding?! He's probably busy raiding the leftover funds from his charity for the troops while Megyn Kelly starts moving her things into his dressing room.
 
2013-08-09 09:06:41 AM

the opposite of charity is justice: Ah. the good ole' Rand-ian Social Security Manuever.


I mean, it makes sense, doesn't it?  If I am forced to buy something against my will, I might as well use it.
 
2013-08-09 09:07:57 AM

Xcott: Ivandrago: I find this confusing. You can't be an advocate of public schools if you send your kids to private schools?

And while we're at it, why doesn't this make libertarians hypocrites if they go to a public school?  Doesn't this very simple line of thought go both ways?



Yes, hypocrites all around.

For example, I attended a private school for part of my education (K-10) and I teach at a private school, therefore I cannot support quality education in public schools.  This is why I do not support quality education in public schools.

In addition, I am libertarian.  I was not a hypocrite for attending public school (11-12) because I hadn't learned about libertarianism yet.  But I used to work at a public school, and I am a hypocrite for doing that.  I was a libertarian government employee.  Hypocrite.

I hope this clarifies things.
 
2013-08-09 09:09:58 AM
Yeah, have to agree with libs on this one. Couldn't someone say "our public schools suck, therefore Im forced to send my kids to private school?" without being a hypocrite?

Almost every upper middle class or higher white liberal in manhattan sends their kids to private school.
 
2013-08-09 09:12:11 AM

MattStafford: the opposite of charity is justice: Ah. the good ole' Rand-ian Social Security Manuever.

I mean, it makes sense, doesn't it?  If I am forced to buy something against my will, I might as well use it.


Of course it does. If I'm being forced to chip in for pizza, I might as well grab a slice.
 
2013-08-09 09:18:39 AM

Debeo Summa Credo: Of course it does. If I'm being forced to chip in for pizza, I might as well grab a slice.


I see your taxes helped bankroll the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq as well. May I ask how long you stayed there, you know, to grab a slice of what you paid for?
 
2013-08-09 09:21:18 AM

ActionJoe: Ivandrago: I find this confusing. You can't be an advocate of public schools if you send your kids to private schools? I'm an advocate of strong public schools, but I went to a private high school. Does that make me a hypocrite? Why does wanting everyone to get a good education regardless of wealth make me a hypocrite?

Yep. My take on what Damon was trying to say is he had a great public education but he has seen that decline a lot. That's why he put his kids in private school, so that they would get a good education while trying to find a school that wasn't stuck up so his kids can get an education and experience that he had as a kid.


I hate to admit it, but I think Fox has a point -- if he's sending his kids to private school, Matt Damon doesn't have a stake in the quality of public schools anymore.  He's opting out, and any policies that he advocates for or against won't affect his kids.  And frankly, even if you're concerned about the quality of education in public schools, there should be lots of after-school / weekend / summer programs that he can send his kids to, which can achieve a lot of the educational results that he's looking for.

To play the cynic though -- the reason you send your kids to private school isn't for education, it's to make connections with kids of other rich and powerful families.  That's something that would be virtually impossible to get from a public school.

That said the ultimate problem is, like eiger said, with poverty -- parents can't devote time to their kids if they're working two, three jobs each just to get by.
 
2013-08-09 09:21:27 AM

Wulfman: Xcott: Ivandrago: I find this confusing. You can't be an advocate of public schools if you send your kids to private schools?

And while we're at it, why doesn't this make libertarians hypocrites if they go to a public school?  Doesn't this very simple line of thought go both ways?


Yes, hypocrites all around.

For example, I attended a private school for part of my education (K-10) and I teach at a private school, therefore I cannot support quality education in public schools.  This is why I do not support quality education in public schools.

In addition, I am libertarian.  I was not a hypocrite for attending public school (11-12) because I hadn't learned about libertarianism yet.  But I used to work at a public school, and I am a hypocrite for doing that.  I was a libertarian government employee.  Hypocrite.

I hope this clarifies things.


I'm a liberal Iraq war veteran who was against the war from the jump (I kept that to myself and my close family of course because back then speaking out against decisions your CinC was making would get you in trouble and not a pat on the back from your supervisor like many would today). I now work for an investment firm yet I'm in favor of tighter regulations on the financial industry and I'm sickened by the cartoon-ish top heavy corporate pay structure that has developed over the last 30+ years.

Basically, I'm farked.

/Was really dumfounded by the amount of right wing propaganda that was blown up our asses when I was still in
 
2013-08-09 09:24:01 AM
I didn't know he even had kids.
 
2013-08-09 09:24:36 AM

The Drawing Board: Sean Hannity argues for a strong national defense yet never served.


some say he's also virulently anti-gay despite being a well-known homosexual.

/some say
 
2013-08-09 09:25:44 AM
Supporting the improvement of something that you don't use doesn't make you a hypocrite. Honestly that word isn't that complicated. He is not telling people they must use public schools and then he doesn't. He is telling people that we should support better public education, which he does, but doesn't think it's good enough yet, so he sends his kids to private school. Wanted public school to good and not thinking it's good yet is not hypocritical. This is just reaching idiotic hyperbowl hoping to undermine their 'enemies' position.
 
2013-08-09 09:27:00 AM
gallery.burrowowl.net
 
2013-08-09 09:27:19 AM

cenobyte40k: He is not telling people they must use public schools and then he doesn't. He is telling people that we should support better public education, which he does, but doesn't think it's good enough yet, so he sends his kids to private school.


And, in so doing, he is improving the public school system- he contributes taxes to the system but doesn't consume its resources (directly).
 
2013-08-09 09:27:20 AM

EyeballKid: Debeo Summa Credo: Of course it does. If I'm being forced to chip in for pizza, I might as well grab a slice.

I see your taxes helped bankroll the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq as well. May I ask how long you stayed there, you know, to grab a slice of what you paid for?


We all grab a slice of Iraq when we drive to work.
 
2013-08-09 09:29:52 AM

Arkanaut: I hate to admit it, but I think Fox has a point -- if he's sending his kids to private school, Matt Damon doesn't have a stake in the quality of public schools anymore.  He's opting out, and any policies that he advocates for or against won't affect his kids.


...if you've never received food-stamps and medicaid, you cannot have an opinion on social welfare sepnding
...if you've never been to space, you cannot have an opinion on NASA's funding.
...If you've never been employed by an intelligence agency, you cannot have an opinion on government surveillance.


/derp
 
2013-08-09 09:30:38 AM

Debeo Summa Credo: Yeah, have to agree with libs on this one. Couldn't someone say "our public schools suck, therefore Im forced to send my kids to private school?" without being a hypocrite?

Almost every upper middle class or higher white liberal in manhattan sends their kids to private school.


It depends.  In this case Damon has made a point of opposing any and all school reforms.  He has purposefully aligned himself with a group that says, "Public schools are great!  We don't need to change anything."  It's his outspokenness in favor of public schools and then deciding to send his children to a private school because he "has no choice, really"  that makes him a hypocrite.

As a person who works in education, I can't agree with Damon's views, but I'd respect them a lot more if he put his money where his mouth was and sent his kids to public school.
 
2013-08-09 09:32:36 AM

lisse24: It's his outspokenness in favor of public schools and then deciding to send his children to a private school because he "has no choice, really" that makes him a hypocrite.


lisse24: As a person who works in education


Jeezus, I hope you aren't teaching logic.
 
2013-08-09 09:35:23 AM

Ivandrago: I find this confusing. You can't be an advocate of public schools if you send your kids to private schools? I'm an advocate of strong public schools, but I went to a private high school. Does that make me a hypocrite? Why does wanting everyone to get a good education regardless of wealth make me a hypocrite?


Conservatives have a hard time distinguishing "nuance" from "hypocrisy", especially when liberals are involved.

"I'm sending my kids to private school, but I recognize that not everyone can afford that, and therefore support good public schools so that education is available to all children" is hard to fit on a bumper sticker.
 
2013-08-09 09:35:33 AM

lisse24: Debeo Summa Credo: Yeah, have to agree with libs on this one. Couldn't someone say "our public schools suck, therefore Im forced to send my kids to private school?" without being a hypocrite?

Almost every upper middle class or higher white liberal in manhattan sends their kids to private school.

It depends.  In this case Damon has made a point of opposing any and all school reforms.  He has purposefully aligned himself with a group that says, "Public schools are great!  We don't need to change anything."  It's his outspokenness in favor of public schools and then deciding to send his children to a private school because he "has no choice, really"  that makes him a hypocrite.

As a person who works in education, I can't agree with Damon's views, but I'd respect them a lot more if he put his money where his mouth was and sent his kids to public school.


www.dowackado.com
 
2013-08-09 09:37:34 AM

Ivandrago: I had a great elementary education at public school and a terrible middle school education at a public school. The public high school I was zoned for was horrid as well and my parents decided I'd be better served by a private, single-sex catholic school.


I went to five public schools in six years. Got re-zoned three times between 1st and 4th grade, then moved about 200 yards up the street and into another district for 5th grade, then up to middle school. After a terrible 6th grade year, my parents bit the bullet and sent me to a very small Catholic school (my mom was abused by nuns back in the day, so this was a big, big bridge for her to cross). I chose to go to a single-sex Catholic high school.

/Raised a lapsed Catholic
//Once neglected to do the only homework assignment in religion class, and got an F for the quarter. My mother was waiting for me at the door with the "I got a call from your principal! What class did you fail?!" and, when I said "Religion," she shrugged and said "well, at least it wasn't anything important."
///I am where I am because of that "send him to Detroit Our Lady of Perpetual Help" decision
 
2013-08-09 09:37:52 AM

mmagdalene: I'm a public school teacher and do not foresee that my child will attend public school after 3rd grade. Even that's looking sketchy as we're in NC, where the Republican legislature has just gutted public schools to fund vouchers for charter and homeschools (read: "Jesus Camps").


There are some good charter schools, to be fair, but they are there only because they've gutted public schools. I'm talking about charters that serve specific communities that might require a more specific focus--not jeebus.
 
2013-08-09 09:38:01 AM

manbart: Arkanaut: I hate to admit it, but I think Fox has a point -- if he's sending his kids to private school, Matt Damon doesn't have a stake in the quality of public schools anymore.  He's opting out, and any policies that he advocates for or against won't affect his kids.

...if you've never received food-stamps and medicaid, you cannot have an opinion on social welfare sepnding
...if you've never been to space, you cannot have an opinion on NASA's funding.
...If you've never been employed by an intelligence agency, you cannot have an opinion on government surveillance.


/derp


I didn't say he "cannot have an opinion" -- this is a free country after all.  But in your examples, your opinion is probably less useful than that of somebody who has been on food stamps or works with people on food stamps, or who has worked with NASA.

That last one though, theoretically we can all "have an opinion" on surveillance because we could all be spied on by the government.
 
2013-08-09 09:40:35 AM

EyeballKid: Debeo Summa Credo: Of course it does. If I'm being forced to chip in for pizza, I might as well grab a slice.

I see your taxes helped bankroll the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq as well. May I ask how long you stayed there, you know, to grab a slice of what you paid for?


What a silly retort. To the extent there are benefits of the invasion of Iraq and Afghanistan, I am sharing in those like all of us, just like I contributed (or will contribute going forward to pay for the additional debt incurred) to the expense.
 
2013-08-09 09:41:33 AM
To be fair, word is Hannity is about to be bumped from his timeslot by Megyn Kelly's new show, so he may have just reached DerpCon 5. Or, perhaps it was just a typical evening on 'Hannity'.

Time for Sean to pull himself up by his anagramed cowboy bootstraps and get to work.
 
2013-08-09 09:43:30 AM
I don't buy the argument that unless he sends his kids to public school, he has no stake in the matter.
Is he a citizen of this country?
Then he has a stake in an educated population.
As Americans, we all benefit from a strong public school system. A well educated country is better than a poorly educated country.
 
2013-08-09 09:44:34 AM
So.  He can afford it.  I'm sure they want Sasha and Malia to go to public school too.
 
2013-08-09 09:45:53 AM

FlashHarry: The Drawing Board: Sean Hannity argues for a strong national defense yet never served.

some say he's also virulently anti-gay despite being a well-known homosexual.

/some say


Some say Glenn Beck raped and killed a young girl in 1990.
 
2013-08-09 09:46:08 AM

tenpoundsofcheese: Just another Hollywood hypocrite, nothing surprising.


I gotta hand it to you, troll. For once you're telling the truth. Apparently, Hannity really did say this ridiculous crap.
 
2013-08-09 09:46:56 AM

tenpoundsofcheese: Wooly Bully: No clicks for dicks!

Would anyone who suffered through this be kind enough to summarize (beyond a simple "derp")?

Damon made a big deal in other interviews how his public education was the best thing ever and that he wouldn't have traded it for anything thing.
He talks about how we need to support public support.

Then when it came time to support the schools by showing everyone that they are good enough for his precious snowflakes, he bailed on them.

Just another Hollywood hypocrite, nothing surprising.


i1199.photobucket.com
 
2013-08-09 09:47:28 AM
So are the Fox News folks gonna show him up by having their kids attend public schools?  Thought so.
 
2013-08-09 09:48:40 AM

Arkanaut: I hate to admit it, but I think Fox has a point -- if he's sending his kids to private school, Matt Damon doesn't have a stake in the quality of public schools anymore. He's opting out, and any policies that he advocates for or against won't affect his kids.


The quality of public education affects everyone.  Because if schools start turning out only professional drool-factories, those people go to work at the stores you shop at and the restaurants you eat at.  Do you really want someone with no critical thinking skills working on your car?  Do you want someone with no understanding of the English language proof-reading the instructions on your medicine label?  You want someone who doesn't understand what germs are cooking your hamburger?
 
2013-08-09 09:50:07 AM

Wooly Bully: tenpoundsofcheese: Just another Hollywood hypocrite, nothing surprising.

I gotta hand it to you, troll. For once you're telling the truth. Apparently, Hannity really did say this ridiculous crap.


...where do you think the users of that account get their talking points?
 
2013-08-09 09:50:16 AM

tenpoundsofcheese: But when his actions show what a hypocrite he is, those opinions really don't mean very much.


Up until about a half hour ago I didn't even know his opinion on this subject at all, his opinion really never meant much to most people I'd imagine. I'm surprised at all the right wing fark nutters who apparently know all about the lives of celebrities they claim to hate.
 
2013-08-09 09:50:44 AM

tenpoundsofcheese: manbart: Arkanaut: I hate to admit it, but I think Fox has a point -- if he's sending his kids to private school, Matt Damon doesn't have a stake in the quality of public schools anymore.  He's opting out, and any policies that he advocates for or against won't affect his kids.

...if you've never received paid taxes that are used for food-stamps and medicaid, you cannot have an opinion on social welfare sepnding
...if you've never been paid taxes that are used for to space programs, you cannot have an opinion on NASA's funding.
...If you've never been paid taxes that are used for employed by an intelligence agency, you cannot have an opinion on government surveillance.


/derp

ftfy.
You are looking at it backwards

Also, no one is saying Damon can not have an opinion.  Of course he can.  But when his actions show what a hypocrite he is, those opinions really don't mean very much.


You don't think Damon pays taxes? Because, frankly, that is the only way for him to not have a stake in the efficacy of public schools, and therefore be a hypocrite.
 
2013-08-09 09:52:28 AM

tenpoundsofcheese: Fista-Phobia: tenpoundsofcheese: Wooly Bully: No clicks for dicks!

Would anyone who suffered through this be kind enough to summarize (beyond a simple "derp")?

Damon made a big deal in other interviews how his public education was the best thing ever and that he wouldn't have traded it for anything thing.
He talks about how we need to support public support.

Then when it came time to support the schools by showing everyone that they are good enough for his precious snowflakes, he bailed on them.

Just another Hollywood hypocrite, nothing surprising.

[i1199.photobucket.com image 366x492]

Not sure why you are posting a picture of yourself, but okay.


No U!. Please stop. Freeper Fridays suck.
 
2013-08-09 09:52:52 AM
Ah, public schools. Another shining example of the Republican philosophy: "If it isn't perfect, BURN IT TO THE GROUND! So our rich donors can get richer providing these necessary services for profit."

See also: USPS, health care.
 
2013-08-09 09:53:13 AM

Arkanaut: I hate to admit it, but I think Fox has a point -- if he's sending his kids to private school, Matt Damon doesn't have a stake in the quality of public schools anymore.


You sure about that?

He has a stake in the quality of public schools because that's where most kids get their education. When those kids grow up they become doctors, nurses, lawyers, politicians, engineers, etc. They end up serving a vital role in society. Hell, he may have to rely on a doctor at some point in his life, so it is definitely in his best interest that kids have a good education, as his future doctor may have been a student of a public school.
 
2013-08-09 09:53:16 AM
Don't ever let Republicans lecture you about class envy.
 
2013-08-09 09:53:54 AM
FIELDS: He loves talking them up, but doesn't want to send his kids there.
You know, he said he didn't have a choice. He had to do it. Actually he did have a choice. The people who don't have a choice are the rest of Americans who don't have Matt Damon's bank account and can't afford to send their kids to a private school.
...
HANNITY: She's brining up a point you're ignoring. Why not give every American a choice?


You heard it here first, America. Sean Hannity advocating giving every American the money they need to send their kids to private schools.
 
2013-08-09 09:58:38 AM
Wow... So if Matt Damon contributed money to homeless shelters wold Fox immediately call him a hypocrite for living in a house of his own?
 
2013-08-09 09:58:51 AM

kidgenius: Arkanaut: I hate to admit it, but I think Fox has a point -- if he's sending his kids to private school, Matt Damon doesn't have a stake in the quality of public schools anymore.

You sure about that?

He has a stake in the quality of public schools because that's where most kids get their education. When those kids grow up they become doctors, nurses, lawyers, politicians, engineers, etc. They end up serving a vital role in society. Hell, he may have to rely on a doctor at some point in his life, so it is definitely in his best interest that kids have a good education, as his future doctor may have been a student of a public school.


Also, he also has a stake because he pays taxes that fund public schools. If he, another celebrity, or some old rich guy think we are spending too much on public schools, that person has just as valid an interest in someone who wants to spend more on education because some kid might be his doctor someday.
 
2013-08-09 09:58:59 AM
I watched good will hunting for the first time last night. It was a good film, and I have nothing else to add to this thread.
 
2013-08-09 10:03:22 AM
I'm sure Matt Damon doesn't pay any property taxes at all and therefor has no alleged skin in the public education game anyway.
 
2013-08-09 10:03:25 AM

Dr.Mxyzptlk.: Ivandrago: I find this confusing. You can't be an advocate of public schools if you send your kids to private schools? I'm an advocate of strong public schools, but I went to a private high school. Does that make me a hypocrite? Why does wanting everyone to get a good education regardless of wealth make me a hypocrite?

I think it's the lack of a good education and graduation rates in many schools that concern people.
 Not the pursuit of a good education.
Matt Damon and others only reinforce the same policies and administration that have left millions trapped in a poverty,
These families are living the broken earth while he is the one actually living in Elysium.

Waiting for Superman addressed all this crap but was ignored and buried .http://youtu.be/ZKTfaro96dg

It's easier to just "derp" Romney "derp" republicans "derp" white guys. Rather than dig in and do the real work.
Matt Damon didn't change one damn thing with his little feel good speech.


Yes, Waiting for Superman was totally ignored.  Nobody ever saw it.  People haven't been placing policies in effect that create charter schools for years.  Charter schools are not available in 40 states and DC.  Ironically, they haven't fixed anything.  In fact, on the New York exam recently, only 21% of charter school students were proficient, 10% less than public school students in NYC than were proficient.  See, the problem I have with those who advocate the current education reform fads is that they often have NO idea of what is actually going on.

Finally, if we want to attack Matt Damon for being a hypocrite, then we must attack all of the charter school administrators and politicians who do not send their kids to charter schools for being hypocrites.  Why doesn't Sean Hannity send his two children to charter schools?
 
2013-08-09 10:04:27 AM
When Jimmy Carter was president he sent Amy to a PUBLIC elementary school in Washington, D.C. Carter was not a good president but what you could never fault him on was this. He was and is a man of integrity. If all the smart and rich kids like Matt Damon's go to private schools the public schools are AUTOMATICALLY SHORTCHANGED AND MADE WORSE!

  I've been on all sides of the debate. I have home schooled my kids AND sent them to public schools. When I first decided to home school my oldest son his public school teacher responded with "There go the class test scores!"
My son got a better education but his peers lost out on his presence. The SAME thing is happening with Matt Damon's kids!
 
2013-08-09 10:06:06 AM

tenpoundsofcheese: Kome: You don't think Damon pays taxes? Because, frankly, that is the only way for him to not have a stake in the efficacy of public schools, and therefore be a hypocrite.

I don't think he pays his fair share.

His hypocrisy comes from the disconnect of his preaching and his actions, not whether he is paying taxes.


You heard it here today, Fark - one of the shills using the tenpoundsofcheese account just advocated for higher taxes upon the rich.
 
2013-08-09 10:08:49 AM
The worst part of the exchange was the blatant lying by Hannity.  He said that the high school graduation rate in New York city is below 50%, when in fact the graduation rate was 65% .
 
2013-08-09 10:10:33 AM
Actually, I have this to add. Public school blows. Or least in my experience it does, but then again I went to one of the worst high schools in Illinois.
 
2013-08-09 10:11:44 AM
What's good for the GOOSE is good for the GANDER.

blogs.sfweekly.com

Why doesn't Obama (or other rich liberals, Damon) send their kids to 'good' public schools?
 
2013-08-09 10:13:33 AM
I was waiting for this.  The wing nutters are PISSED about Elysium.  Is it rife with SOCIALISM.  They don't quite understand it, but they are CONVINCED this movie has some bad things to say about Rich People and Capitalism.
 
2013-08-09 10:15:20 AM

Dog Welder: Ivandrago: I find this confusing. You can't be an advocate of public schools if you send your kids to private schools? I'm an advocate of strong public schools, but I went to a private high school. Does that make me a hypocrite? Why does wanting everyone to get a good education regardless of wealth make me a hypocrite?

According to Sean Hannity, you're a hypocrite.  And your feet smell.  And you probably eat your boogers, too.


Well, if anyone would know about eating boogers...
 
2013-08-09 10:17:24 AM

peter21: To be fair, word is Hannity is about to be bumped from his timeslot by Megyn Kelly's new show, so he may have just reached DerpCon 5. Or, perhaps it was just a typical evening on 'Hannity'.

Time for Sean to pull himself up by his anagramed cowboy bootstraps and get to work.


Hatnity?  Nithany?  Annhity?  Tanhiny?
 
2013-08-09 10:17:44 AM
Pointing out liberal hypocrisy is FOX news' bread and butter. And denying that hypocrisy in the face of overwhelming evidnence is MSNBC's bread and butter
 
2013-08-09 10:18:47 AM

Wooly Bully: No clicks for dicks!

Would anyone who suffered through this be kind enough to summarize (beyond a simple "derp")?


I watched the entire embedded video.  Some really hot chick just kept cutting everyone off in a sorority type of nasally voice.  Weird boner happened at this users end.
 
2013-08-09 10:18:54 AM

Delawheredad: If all the smart and rich kids like Matt Damon's go to private schools the public schools are AUTOMATICALLY SHORTCHANGED AND MADE WORSE!


Remind me....

How does not have super-smart kids at a public school hurt the public school? The school still gets the tax dollars from the parents of that kid, even though the kid isn't taking advantage of his publicly funded education.

Oh, maybe the school's test scores aren't buoyed up by the smart kids? I'd say then that the smart kids are merely masking a problem, not helping to fix it.
 
2013-08-09 10:18:57 AM
I don't have kids yet but I will be sending them to private schools. But I always vote yes on school tax levies because public schools need help. Am I a bad person?
 
2013-08-09 10:20:16 AM

NostroZ: What's good for the GOOSE is good for the GANDER.

[blogs.sfweekly.com image 550x381]

Why doesn't Obama (or other rich liberals, Damon) send their kids to 'good' public schools?


Because, seperate but equal, still means something to some people.
 
2013-08-09 10:21:17 AM

PanicMan: Arkanaut: I hate to admit it, but I think Fox has a point -- if he's sending his kids to private school, Matt Damon doesn't have a stake in the quality of public schools anymore. He's opting out, and any policies that he advocates for or against won't affect his kids.

The quality of public education affects everyone.  Because if schools start turning out only professional drool-factories, those people go to work at the stores you shop at and the restaurants you eat at.  Do you really want someone with no critical thinking skills working on your car?  Do you want someone with no understanding of the English language proof-reading the instructions on your medicine label?  You want someone who doesn't understand what germs are cooking your hamburger?


Yes, but what kind of policies improve that quality? More testing or less? How should schools set their priorities? How do we get parents involved? With something as complicated as the school system, the devil's in the details.  TFA doesn't seem to say much about what specifically Damon advocates or has advocated for, but if he's going to be an activist about it, it behooves him to have "somebody on the inside", so to speak.

I suppose that a good alternative would be if, while he's doing his activist work, he's also surveying parents and teachers and such -- and we don't know that he's not.  But he's still not putting anything at risk.  Put it this way -- if you're an activist investor, not only do you stand to gain if the executives listen to your proposals, but you also stand to lose if they don't work out; that gives you more credibility than if you're just a protester outside the office building with a bullhorn with no ties to the company.  Matt Damon has enough money to be the activist investor, but he's choosing instead to be the guy with a bullhorn.

Plus, I don't know much about Matt Damon's lifestyle, but because of his wealth, he's inoculated from the vicissitudes of everyday life like you mention in your post.  He probably buys new cars instead of used, and takes them to a proven, certified mechanic instead of Joe's Body Shop down the street.  He probably has good doctors that check up on his health status regularly.  And how often do you suppose he goes to a fast food place for a burger?
 
2013-08-09 10:23:41 AM
So I see conservatives still don't know what hypocrisy means
 
2013-08-09 10:24:32 AM

lisse24: He has purposefully aligned himself with a group that says, "Public schools are great! We don't need to change anything."


I suspect that public schools would work just fine if wages hadn't stagnated over the last 30 years, and most families could still get by with a single earner.  Our home lives have changed drastically in the last 40 years, and school funding (and the law) have not progressed to the point of being able to deal with dramatically increased absenteeism of parents.  We rely more and more on schools to raise children with dramatically expanded liability for any actions they might or might not take, but we haven't looked at the system and said, "We're paying these people to simultaneous parent AND teach a room of 30 kids.  Maybe we should figure out what goes into doing ALL that."

Here's an idea, maybe we put two teachers in each room.  Put one of them in charge of teaching certain subjects, one in charge of others (maybe an educated scientific professional teaching math and science, leaning on the other's teaching degree for supervision so they don't have to have multiple degrees and extra masters programs or whatever to teach) and have the other enforcing discipline while the active teacher runs lessons.
 
2013-08-09 10:25:07 AM
It is abhorrent that he is advocating for a publicly available minimum standard of education. Absolutely terrible.
 
2013-08-09 10:25:16 AM

clkeagle: ...I assume the outrage is that Matt Damon isn't demanding a taxpayer-funded voucher to cover their private tuition?


No, he won life's lottery and can afford things that the shrinking middle class and lower classes can't. Probably takes advantage of all kinds of tax loopholes in order to keep from paying his fair share too.
 
2013-08-09 10:27:33 AM
Kidgenius

  Very simple. Smart kids serve as inspirations and role models for the other kids. If you are surrounded by nothing but dullards there is NO motivation to excel. Robert Goddard, the rocket scientist, says in his autobiography that he was inspired to become proficient at mathematics because he got tired of a real smart girl in his class ALWAYS coming up with the right answers. He decided to buckle down at math so that he could out preform her. Had that girl NOT gone to public school the principles of rocketry may have gone undiscovered for a generation.

  By keeping smart kids only in schools for other smart kids public schools will continue to slide into mediocrity, housing only dullards.

  Is that clear enough for you?
 
2013-08-09 10:27:37 AM

tenpoundsofcheese: theknuckler_33: FIELDS: He loves talking them up, but doesn't want to send his kids there.
You know, he said he didn't have a choice. He had to do it. Actually he did have a choice. The people who don't have a choice are the rest of Americans who don't have Matt Damon's bank account and can't afford to send their kids to a private school.
...
HANNITY: She's brining up a point you're ignoring. Why not give every American a choice?

You heard it here first, America. Sean Hannity advocating giving every American the money they need to send their kids to private schools.

No wonder you don't like hannity - you make up things about what he said.


How is he proposing every American have a choice when the reason they don't have a choice is because they can't afford it? That's a neat trick without giving them the money to be able to send their kids to private school so that they can make the choice.

Oh right, the idea is get RID of the funding for public schools and replace it with a voucher program that pays a tiny fraction of private school tuition, but covers most of the old public schools that now are even more under funded than before and let call that "school choice", amirite?

*jerking motion*
 
2013-08-09 10:28:42 AM

kidgenius: Arkanaut: I hate to admit it, but I think Fox has a point -- if he's sending his kids to private school, Matt Damon doesn't have a stake in the quality of public schools anymore.

You sure about that?

He has a stake in the quality of public schools because that's where most kids get their education. When those kids grow up they become doctors, nurses, lawyers, politicians, engineers, etc. They end up serving a vital role in society. Hell, he may have to rely on a doctor at some point in his life, so it is definitely in his best interest that kids have a good education, as his future doctor may have been a student of a public school.


The question shouldn't be whether I'm sure about that, it should be whether Matt Damon is sure about that.  Although at this point he's probably been picked on enough already.

Plus, even a shiatty public school system can produce a few good doctors, lawyers, etc.  (You know, like in the country we live in right now.)  There's a whole selection process after public school -- they have to get into college, get into med school, pass the board exam, etc, all to make sure that only the best and brightest get that "M.D." after their name.  Finding a good doctor is not going to be a problem for Matt Damon, with his money.
 
2013-08-09 10:34:19 AM

Super_pope: lisse24: He has purposefully aligned himself with a group that says, "Public schools are great! We don't need to change anything."

I suspect that public schools would work just fine if wages hadn't stagnated over the last 30 years, and most families could still get by with a single earner.  Our home lives have changed drastically in the last 40 years, and school funding (and the law) have not progressed to the point of being able to deal with dramatically increased absenteeism of parents.  We rely more and more on schools to raise children with dramatically expanded liability for any actions they might or might not take, but we haven't looked at the system and said, "We're paying these people to simultaneous parent AND teach a room of 30 kids.  Maybe we should figure out what goes into doing ALL that."

Here's an idea, maybe we put two teachers in each room.  Put one of them in charge of teaching certain subjects, one in charge of others (maybe an educated scientific professional teaching math and science, leaning on the other's teaching degree for supervision so they don't have to have multiple degrees and extra masters programs or whatever to teach) and have the other enforcing discipline while the active teacher runs lessons.


Your idea is pretty commonplace now.
 
2013-08-09 10:35:47 AM

Delawheredad: Kidgenius

  Very simple. Smart kids serve as inspirations and role models for the other kids. If you are surrounded by nothing but dullards there is NO motivation to excel. Robert Goddard, the rocket scientist, says in his autobiography that he was inspired to become proficient at mathematics because he got tired of a real smart girl in his class ALWAYS coming up with the right answers. He decided to buckle down at math so that he could out preform her. Had that girl NOT gone to public school the principles of rocketry may have gone undiscovered for a generation.

  By keeping smart kids only in schools for other smart kids public schools will continue to slide into mediocrity, housing only dullards.

  Is that clear enough for you?


I don't think that's true at all. By and large, kids are not looking at the smart kid in class as role models.
 
2013-08-09 10:36:13 AM

eiger: Dr.Mxyzptlk.: Ivandrago: I find this confusing. You can't be an advocate of public schools if you send your kids to private schools? I'm an advocate of strong public schools, but I went to a private high school. Does that make me a hypocrite? Why does wanting everyone to get a good education regardless of wealth make me a hypocrite?

I think it's the lack of a good education and graduation rates in many schools that concern people.
 Not the pursuit of a good education.
Matt Damon and others only reinforce the same policies and administration that have left millions trapped in a poverty,
These families are living the broken earth while he is the one actually living in Elysium.

Waiting for Superman addressed all this crap but was ignored and buried .http://youtu.be/ZKTfaro96dg

It's easier to just "derp" Romney "derp" republicans "derp" white guys. Rather than dig in and do the real work.
Matt Damon didn't change one damn thing with his little feel good speech.

The fundamental problem has been shown, over and over again by those who actually study it to be poverty, not the "quality" of the schools. You fix poverty, you fix education. Of course there are powerful groups in this country who have a vested interest in ignoring this and instead blaming the "schools" by which they usually mean teachers.


War on Poverty?  Awesome idea, we can totes win that one.
 
2013-08-09 10:37:18 AM

karmaceutical: I was waiting for this.  The wing nutters are PISSED about Elysium.  Is it rife with SOCIALISM.  They don't quite understand it, but they are CONVINCED this movie has some bad things to say about Rich People and Capitalism.


The right needs a new face for Hollywood Libruls.  They can't use George Clooney now that he's spending his time and money trying to stop genocide in Africa.
 
2013-08-09 10:42:16 AM

coeyagi: peter21: To be fair, word is Hannity is about to be bumped from his timeslot by Megyn Kelly's new show, so he may have just reached DerpCon 5. Or, perhaps it was just a typical evening on 'Hannity'.

Time for Sean to pull himself up by his anagramed cowboy bootstraps and get to work.

Hatnity?  Nithany?  Annhity?  Tanhiny?


Arrrgghhh! It's early. My vocabulary hasn't come on line yet.
 
2013-08-09 10:42:37 AM
Frank N Stein

  Kids today may say that they are not looking up to the smart kids but EVERYBODY wants As on their report card. Yes there are a lot of lazy kids in schools and our society in general does not revere intelligence but that is a societal problem not confined to just the public school system. However as long as the smart kids are segregated in their own schools the public schools are only going to get progressively worse. There is no doubt about that.
 
2013-08-09 10:43:09 AM

Zeb Hesselgresser: eiger: Dr.Mxyzptlk.: Ivandrago: I find this confusing. You can't be an advocate of public schools if you send your kids to private schools? I'm an advocate of strong public schools, but I went to a private high school. Does that make me a hypocrite? Why does wanting everyone to get a good education regardless of wealth make me a hypocrite?

I think it's the lack of a good education and graduation rates in many schools that concern people.
 Not the pursuit of a good education.
Matt Damon and others only reinforce the same policies and administration that have left millions trapped in a poverty,
These families are living the broken earth while he is the one actually living in Elysium.

Waiting for Superman addressed all this crap but was ignored and buried .http://youtu.be/ZKTfaro96dg

It's easier to just "derp" Romney "derp" republicans "derp" white guys. Rather than dig in and do the real work.
Matt Damon didn't change one damn thing with his little feel good speech.

The fundamental problem has been shown, over and over again by those who actually study it to be poverty, not the "quality" of the schools. You fix poverty, you fix education. Of course there are powerful groups in this country who have a vested interest in ignoring this and instead blaming the "schools" by which they usually mean teachers.

War on Poverty?  Awesome idea, we can totes win that one.


You can never truly eradicate poverty, true. But we can do a HELL of a lot better than we are now. Raising the minimum wage to a sensible level would be a good start, and then maybe we can work on giving incentives to corporations that don't outsource. Putting time and money into improving the public school system would be a good idea, too.
 
2013-08-09 10:46:11 AM

Onkel Buck: Why doesn't Obama (or other rich liberals, Damon) send their kids to 'good' public schools?

Because, seperate but equal, still means something to some people.


You mean... Separate by money and access, but allegedly equal in representation?


Yeah... That's a big fat joke there.
We're separated by MONEY.
America is a CAPITALIST country where if you have money you send your kids to the best private schools available.
Even if you're a bleeding heart liberal who says we have 'fantastic public schools for everyone'.

Shenanigans.  Malarkey!
 
2013-08-09 10:46:15 AM

Dancin_In_Anson: clkeagle: ...I assume the outrage is that Matt Damon isn't demanding a taxpayer-funded voucher to cover their private tuition?

No, he won life's lottery and can afford things that the shrinking middle class and lower classes can't. Probably takes advantage of all kinds of tax loopholes in order to keep from paying his fair share too.


So, I guess you agree that such loopholes should be closed?
 
2013-08-09 10:46:27 AM

Zeb Hesselgresser: War on Poverty?  Awesome idea, we can totes win that one.


Did you know 99.6% of "poor" people own a fridge? sounds like we are winning.
 
2013-08-09 10:47:03 AM

Delawheredad: Frank N Stein

  Kids today may say that they are not looking up to the smart kids but EVERYBODY wants As on their report card. Yes there are a lot of lazy kids in schools and our society in general does not revere intelligence but that is a societal problem not confined to just the public school system. However as long as the smart kids are segregated in their own schools the public schools are only going to get progressively worse. There is no doubt about that.


Eh, maybe. For me personally, there's not a chance in hell I'd send my kid to my old high school (or any school like it). I'd honestly homeschool the kid before I did that. I guess in a roundabout way my old shiatty school did inspire me.
 
2013-08-09 10:47:06 AM
Why is this not on the Entertainment tab? Was Matt elected to something?
 
2013-08-09 10:50:05 AM

Arkanaut: I suppose that a good alternative would be if, while he's doing his activist work, he's also surveying parents and teachers and such -- and we don't know that he's not.  But he's still not putting anything at risk.  Put it this way -- if you're an activist investor, not only do you stand to gain if the executives listen to your proposals, but you also stand to lose if they don't work out; that gives you more credibility than if you're just a protester outside the office building with a bullhorn with no ties to the company.  Matt Damon has enough money to be the activist investor, but he's choosing instead to be the guy with a bullhorn.


Why is it hypercritical to advocate for better education for all citizens, regardless of economic status, while giving his own children the best opportunities he can provide? Given enough money, purchasing a private education will always outperform a public education. But, the majority of people  cannot afford to provide this for their children. What is wrong with advocating for the improvement of this public service?

To use another hyperbolic example: do you need to live in a famish stricken third world nation in order to donate to charities like the Children's Hunger Fund without being a hypocrite?
 
2013-08-09 10:50:44 AM

imontheinternet: karmaceutical: I was waiting for this.  The wing nutters are PISSED about Elysium.  Is it rife with SOCIALISM.  They don't quite understand it, but they are CONVINCED this movie has some bad things to say about Rich People and Capitalism.

The right needs a new face for Hollywood Libruls.  They can't use George Clooney now that he's spending his time and money trying to stop genocide in Africa.


I was just perusing the IMDB comments on Elysium the other day.  Honestly, I was just trying to figure out if it was reasonable to take my 11 year old to.  I didn't expect to run into a full-tilt derpstorm.  See Dr.Mxyzptlk's post above... this derp flows from down from a common large intestine.
 
2013-08-09 10:52:46 AM

LordJiro: You can never truly eradicate poverty


Of course you could. If you literally just GAVE every man, woman and child in the United States who are currently living in poverty a stipend of $1 above the poverty line it would cost about $130bn less than the defense budget alone.

And it wouldn't even cost that much because most of those people actually make some small amount of income and wouldn't need the full stipend to meet the criteria.

I understand your point but.... it's not really THAT monumental of a problem considering our incredible wealth, we just aren't willing to even try.
 
2013-08-09 10:53:07 AM
HYPOCRISY IS EXCLUSIVELY A LIBERAL TRAIT.  NO CONSERVATIVE HAS EVER BEEN A HYPOCRITE.

/and like such as
 
2013-08-09 10:53:32 AM

tuna fingers: Wooly Bully: No clicks for dicks!

Would anyone who suffered through this be kind enough to summarize (beyond a simple "derp")?

I watched the entire embedded video.  Some really hot chick just kept cutting everyone off in a sorority type of nasally voice.  Weird boner happened at this users end.


Thanks, man. And I feel you on the "unwanted boner" thing; it's always disturbing to be turned on by someone you detest. Hormones are stupid.
 
2013-08-09 10:55:47 AM

tenpoundsofcheese: His hypocrisy comes from the disconnect of his preaching and his actions, not whether he is paying taxes.


Except him paying taxes IS an action. One that he engages in, as you freely acknowledge. Therefore, his actions are consistent with his views on public schooling by the very criteria that you offered (i.e. paying taxes that fund certain services or programs).
 
2013-08-09 10:57:25 AM

soupafi: I don't have kids yet but I will be sending them to private schools. But I always vote yes on school tax levies because public schools need help. Am I a bad person?


You are history's greatest monster (mainly because you align your thoughts with a known communist).
 
2013-08-09 10:57:57 AM
Whatever poutrage Fox is running aside, FARK ANYONE WHO IS AGAINST IMPROVING ACCESS TO HIGHER QUALITY EDUCATION.  Fark them more when they opt out of the poverty trap they support for others.
 
2013-08-09 10:59:00 AM

toomuchwhargarbl: clkeagle: ...I assume the outrage is that Matt Damon isn't demanding a taxpayer-funded voucher to cover their private tuition?

That's a bingo.


tinfoilhatman45.files.wordpress.com
 
2013-08-09 11:00:07 AM

Hickory-smoked: So, I guess you agree that such loopholes should be closed?


The entire tax code should be scrapped but that's for another thread.
 
2013-08-09 11:02:00 AM

Headso: Zeb Hesselgresser: War on Poverty?  Awesome idea, we can totes win that one.

Did you know 99.6% of "poor" people own a fridge? sounds like we are winning.


My fridge is broke, so I got a kick out of your reply.  And you and jiro is right you can't eradicate poverty, but we've certainly given it a good beating.
 
2013-08-09 11:05:46 AM

bulldg4life: It is abhorrent that he is advocating for a publicly available minimum standard of education. Absolutely terrible.


It this isn't the definition of sedition, then the definition of sedition needs to be changed.

Hey, it works for history books.
 
2013-08-09 11:06:01 AM

Arkanaut: I hate to admit it, but I think Fox has a point -- if he's sending his kids to private school, Matt Damon doesn't have a stake in the quality of public schools anymore.


White people did not have a stake in the civil rights of black people, that did not prevent some white people to be active in the civil right fight.
 
2013-08-09 11:06:01 AM
Mind you, this is Hannity we're talking about; the same guy who puts his name on Freedom Concerts that give about 10% of their take to the families of the war vets that he supports so wholeheartedly, so we're not exactly talking about a man with a whole lot of integrity or moral certitude.

His job is to spin any event, any topic, any thing into illustrations of the polar nature of the process, which essentially comes down to Our Side, Their Side, and Their Side is always bad. and Our Side is always good. It's not terribly good journalism, but that is what passes for journalism today...
 
2013-08-09 11:07:06 AM

DarkSoulNoHope: toomuchwhargarbl: clkeagle: ...I assume the outrage is that Matt Damon isn't demanding a taxpayer-funded voucher to cover their private tuition?

That's a bingo.

[tinfoilhatman45.files.wordpress.com image 338x301]


Pretty dang much. How dare folks send their kids to a private school and NOT ask for a handout...
 
2013-08-09 11:07:29 AM

Dancin_In_Anson: clkeagle: ...I assume the outrage is that Matt Damon isn't demanding a taxpayer-funded voucher to cover their private tuition?

No, he won life's lottery and can afford things that the shrinking middle class and lower classes can't. Probably takes advantage of all kinds of tax loopholes in order to keep from paying his fair share too.


Are you saying that you just file a 1040EZ and take zero deductions so that, you know, you pay your fair share?
 
2013-08-09 11:07:35 AM
Public High School graduation rates by state - 2009:

http://www.higheredinfo.org/dbrowser/?year=2009&level=nation&mode=map & state=0&submeasure=36
 
2013-08-09 11:09:37 AM

theknuckler_33: Public High School graduation rates by state - 2009:

http://www.higheredinfo.org/dbrowser/?year=2009&level=nation&mode=map & state=0&submeasure=36


Hmm. Try this.
 
2013-08-09 11:09:46 AM

Zeb Hesselgresser: And you and jiro is right you can't eradicate poverty, but we've certainly given it a good beating.


That's only true in relation to other, unlike nations.

By the OECD's measure of poverty (the line being ess than half the median income, which, by household, corresponds closely to how the U.S. also defines poverty), we have the fourth highest poverty rate among the thirty three OECD nations.
 
2013-08-09 11:11:20 AM

tuna fingers: Your idea is pretty commonplace now.


Is it?  I've never seen multiple teachers running one room of 30 kids.  Wife worked at a school as an SLP and never mentioned anything like that being commonly done.
 
2013-08-09 11:11:59 AM

theknuckler_33: theknuckler_33: Public High School graduation rates by state - 2009:

http://www.higheredinfo.org/dbrowser/?year=2009&level=nation&mode=map & state=0&submeasure=36

Hmm. Try this.



That's "on time" graduation rates.  Just to be clear, the conversations and graphs and statistics that purport to show graduation rates almost always show the lower "on time" graduation rates.
 
2013-08-09 11:13:18 AM
No, he won life's lottery and can afford things that the shrinking middle class and lower classes can't. Probably takes advantage of all kinds of tax loopholes in order to keep from paying his fair share too.

wow, DIA is jealous of the wealthy
 
2013-08-09 11:13:24 AM

Super_pope: tuna fingers: Your idea is pretty commonplace now.

Is it?  I've never seen multiple teachers running one room of 30 kids.  Wife worked at a school as an SLP and never mentioned anything like that being commonly done.



It's not commonly done except with SpEd students.
 
2013-08-09 11:13:27 AM

Delawheredad: Frank N Stein

  Kids today may say that they are not looking up to the smart kids but EVERYBODY wants As on their report card.


Hyperbole much?

Sure, everybode may like A's on their report card. But very few actually want to put the work in that is required to get those A's. Most kids would rather watch tv, hangout, etc. than doing their book reports and studying for a math test.

Just as many, if not more, kids are likely ostracized for being intelligent and may prefer to not excel and show how smart they are, than there are kids that get inspired by the smart ones.
 
2013-08-09 11:13:43 AM

hubiestubert: DarkSoulNoHope: toomuchwhargarbl: clkeagle: ...I assume the outrage is that Matt Damon isn't demanding a taxpayer-funded voucher to cover their private tuition?

That's a bingo.

[tinfoilhatman45.files.wordpress.com image 338x301]

Pretty dang much. How dare folks send their kids to a private school and NOT ask for a handout...


The conservatives need to find some way to legally bleed the public school system dry. So when they can make it collapse, they can then rescind all those vouchers and make education only affordable to "Good, wealthy, Christian folk".
 
2013-08-09 11:14:09 AM
lisse24He has purposefully aligned himself with a group that says, "Public schools are great! We don't need to change anything."

I know lots of people have beaten up on you already but I'd like to add to the dogpile by pointing out that a minor amount of research shows that the group Damon works with, Save Our Schools, has proposed a number of strategies to improve education.
 
2013-08-09 11:14:16 AM

Dr.Mxyzptlk.: Waiting for Superman addressed all this crap but was ignored and buried


Waiting for Superman was an awful hit job on the New York Teachers' union. The only reason carter schools work (and even that's debatable) is because they have some leeway to act like a private school.  The people that go to them have to fight toget in, so they actually want to be there, and the school is free to expel problem students.  Those advantages would go away completely if you used them as a replacement for the current public school system.
 
2013-08-09 11:16:51 AM

manbart: Arkanaut: I suppose that a good alternative would be if, while he's doing his activist work, he's also surveying parents and teachers and such -- and we don't know that he's not.  But he's still not putting anything at risk.  Put it this way -- if you're an activist investor, not only do you stand to gain if the executives listen to your proposals, but you also stand to lose if they don't work out; that gives you more credibility than if you're just a protester outside the office building with a bullhorn with no ties to the company.  Matt Damon has enough money to be the activist investor, but he's choosing instead to be the guy with a bullhorn.

Why is it hypercritical to advocate for better education for all citizens, regardless of economic status, while giving his own children the best opportunities he can provide? Given enough money, purchasing a private education will always outperform a public education. But, the majority of people  cannot afford to provide this for their children. What is wrong with advocating for the improvement of this public service?

To use another hyperbolic example: do you need to live in a famish stricken third world nation in order to donate to charities like the Children's Hunger Fund without being a hypocrite?


I didn't say he was hypocritical.  (That was tenpounds.)  I said he doesn't have credibility.
 
2013-08-09 11:17:01 AM

HeadKase: Are you saying that you just file a 1040EZ and take zero deductions so that, you know, you pay your fair share?


Not just no but shiat farking hell no. I squeeze every last deduction that I can out of my tax bill.
 
2013-08-09 11:17:04 AM
tenpoundsofcheese:
forum.sportsmogul.com
 
2013-08-09 11:17:23 AM
Wait'll they find out there are some parents who are pro-choice.
 
2013-08-09 11:17:50 AM
Public schools aren't progressive enough for my kids. I'm glad I went to a public school, but I wish today's public schools were supported enough to meet my ideals of what my children should have. Today's public schools aren't progressive enough because they aren't being supported enough. Therefore I'm sending my kids to private school to get them the quality progressive education they deserve.

If you see hypocrisy in the above statement, you might be a partisan asshat.
 
2013-08-09 11:18:29 AM

IrateShadow: the school is free to expel problem students.


A friend of my wife had a little boy that was a douchebag they sent him to private school in 1st grade and by the second week he was kicked out of school. The freedom to kick out problem kids is a huuuuge advantage that makes the two types of schools incomparable.
 
2013-08-09 11:18:44 AM

Debeo Summa Credo: Yeah, have to agree with libs on this one. Couldn't someone say "our public schools suck, therefore Im forced to send my kids to private school?" without being a hypocrite?

Almost every upper middle class or higher white liberal in manhattan sends their kids to private school.


Also: Every elite conservative.
 
2013-08-09 11:19:21 AM

Wulfman: theknuckler_33: theknuckler_33: Public High School graduation rates by state - 2009:

http://www.higheredinfo.org/dbrowser/?year=2009&level=nation&mode=map & state=0&submeasure=36

Hmm. Try this.


That's "on time" graduation rates.  Just to be clear, the conversations and graphs and statistics that purport to show graduation rates almost always show the lower "on time" graduation rates.


Fair enough. I was just interested in the region of the country that is generally responsible for holding down the national rate.
 
2013-08-09 11:19:26 AM

padraig: Arkanaut: I hate to admit it, but I think Fox has a point -- if he's sending his kids to private school, Matt Damon doesn't have a stake in the quality of public schools anymore.

White people did not have a stake in the civil rights of black people, that did not prevent some white people to be active in the civil right fight.


Fair enough.  But a lot of them put themselves at risk to advocate for those rights -- the Freedom Riders, for example.
 
2013-08-09 11:19:29 AM

t3knomanser: cenobyte40k: He is not telling people they must use public schools and then he doesn't. He is telling people that we should support better public education, which he does, but doesn't think it's good enough yet, so he sends his kids to private school.

And, in so doing, he is improving the public school system- he contributes taxes to the system but doesn't consume its resources (directly).


The problem is, rather than working to make his public school better he left.  Assuming his kids aren't half stupid, removing them from the public school hurts the overall student population.  One of the best ways that disadvantaged people can improve themselves is to be able to associate with and emulate more advantaged people.  If all the people of advantage leave, then the disadvantaged have no one in their immediate sphere of influence to emulate.
 
2013-08-09 11:20:15 AM
www.theculturednerd.com

Public school is for poor people.  Why should I send my kids there?
 
2013-08-09 11:22:57 AM
Then I must be the biggest hypocrite ever too. I'm a really strong supporter of keeping religion and prayers out of public schools. Guess what? My kids go to a Catholic School.
 
2013-08-09 11:24:09 AM

skozlaw: Zeb Hesselgresser: And you and jiro is right you can't eradicate poverty, but we've certainly given it a good beating.

That's only true in relation to other, unlike nations.

By the OECD's measure of poverty (the line being (l)ess than half the median income, which, by household, corresponds closely to how the U.S. also defines poverty), we have the fourth highest poverty rate among the thirty three OECD nations.


Doesn't tying the measure of poverty to median income make it unlikely that we will ever win the WOP?
 
2013-08-09 11:25:13 AM
He loves talking them up, but doesn't want to send his kids there.
You know, he said he didn't have a choice. He had to do it. Actually he did have a choice. The people who don't have a choice are the rest of Americans who don't have Matt Damon's bank account and can't afford to send their kids to a private school.

 And there you have it: According to Damon, public schools are good enough for thee, but not for me. Why isn't he just honest about it, though?
 
2013-08-09 11:28:46 AM
Hell, I send MY kid to private school. But that's just because the public schools in Peoria are shiat.
 
2013-08-09 11:29:07 AM

skozlaw: Zeb Hesselgresser: And you and jiro is right you can't eradicate poverty, but we've certainly given it a good beating.

That's only true in relation to other, unlike nations.

By the OECD's measure of poverty (the line being ess than half the median income, which, by household, corresponds closely to how the U.S. also defines poverty), we have the fourth highest poverty rate among the thirty three OECD nations.


Of the median income of that country. Which means we have a wider distribution of wealth, not necessarily that we have more poor, or our poor are worse off.

Using 1/2 of median income is a somewhat arbitrary definition. A nation comprised of 1% oligarchs and 99% subsistence plebes (who each have the same miserable income) would have no poverty under that rationale.
 
2013-08-09 11:30:24 AM
"Fox News flips out when [famous liberal] does [any action]"

Pretty much sums it up
 
2013-08-09 11:30:25 AM

Rwa2play: Debeo Summa Credo: Yeah, have to agree with libs on this one. Couldn't someone say "our public schools suck, therefore Im forced to send my kids to private school?" without being a hypocrite?

Almost every upper middle class or higher white liberal in manhattan sends their kids to private school.

Also: Every elite conservative.


Right, and they aren't hypocrites either.
 
2013-08-09 11:30:29 AM
Only an ignorant anti-education conservative would think the statements:

"We need to improve public schools", and
"I'm sending my kids to a private school because the public ones aren't up to snuff"

are mutually incompatable.
 
2013-08-09 11:32:05 AM

Ivandrago: I find this confusing. You can't be an advocate of public schools if you send your kids to private schools? I'm an advocate of strong public schools, but I went to a private high school. Does that make me a hypocrite? Why does wanting everyone to get a good education regardless of wealth make me a hypocrite?


He also released a statement that, in essence, said that he and his wife just couldn't find a public school that offered the same educational values that they grew up with. Also, it's that reason why he's a public school advocate to begin with. So yeah, I don't see the hypocrisy in this decision at all.
 
2013-08-09 11:36:13 AM

Headso: IrateShadow: the school is free to expel problem students.

A friend of my wife had a little boy that was a douchebag they sent him to private school in 1st grade and by the second week he was kicked out of school. The freedom to kick out problem kids is a huuuuge advantage that makes the two types of schools incomparable.


Very good point. Private schools look better because they have better raw materials (students), and a key factor in that is that they can reject students that cause problems.
 
2013-08-09 11:36:36 AM

soupafi: I don't have kids yet but I will be sending them to private schools. But I always vote yes on school tax levies because public schools need help. Am I a bad person?


It depends.  Do you oppose policies that would allow parents who can't afford private schools on their own to have at least some choice on where their kids go?  Do you reflexively oppose all efforts to measure and incentivize teacher quality?
 
2013-08-09 11:39:00 AM

Hickory-smoked: Dancin_In_Anson: clkeagle: ...I assume the outrage is that Matt Damon isn't demanding a taxpayer-funded voucher to cover their private tuition?

No, he won life's lottery and can afford things that the shrinking middle class and lower classes can't. Probably takes advantage of all kinds of tax loopholes in order to keep from paying his fair share too.

So, I guess you agree that such loopholes should be closed?


Depends what "loopholes" you're talking about.  I'd be all for abolishing all deductions and credits other than personal exemptions, rolling SS & Medicare taxes into the income tax and adjusting rates accordingly.
 
2013-08-09 11:39:27 AM

the opposite of charity is justice: MattStafford: The argument that many libertarians would make is that it would be idiotic not to take advantage of a service that you are paying for.  Basically - I disagree with this whole process, but unfortunately I pay taxes to fund the school, so I can avail myself of its use if I want to.

Ah. the good ole' Rand-ian Social Security Manuever.


But when, say, Warren Buffet or George Soros says taxes should be higher on the rich, those same people will say, "then why don't those guys just send more money to the government".
 
2013-08-09 11:43:38 AM
So he wants better public schools for other people even though he would not directly benefit from it.

STRING HIM UP!!
 
2013-08-09 11:46:36 AM

Corvus: So he wants better public schools for other people even though he would not directly benefit from it.

STRING HIM UP!!


Maybe he likes the idea of them being better, but he actively works to prevent the types of reforms that would improve them.
 
2013-08-09 11:48:14 AM

Ctrl-Alt-Del: "Lib Media flips out when [famous conservative] does [any action]"


Same same
 
2013-08-09 11:52:40 AM
He's just butthurt because Obama dumped him. I guess Barry is farking Jimmy Kimmel now
 
2013-08-09 11:59:37 AM

vonster: Ctrl-Alt-Del: "Lib Media flips out when [famous conservative] does [any action]"

Same same


The herp is strong with this derp.
 
2013-08-09 12:01:01 PM

BMFPitt: Corvus: So he wants better public schools for other people even though he would not directly benefit from it.

STRING HIM UP!!

Maybe he likes the idea of them being better, but he actively works to prevent the types of reforms that would improve them.


Reforms such as what?
 
2013-08-09 12:03:37 PM
I'm a hypocrite about all sorts of things. Most every person I know is, in one way or another. Fine with me, I'm rarely consistent in my thoughts throughout the day, so what? I don't care. Calling me a hypocrite won't hurt my feelings because it's not an insult. It's who we are as human beings.
 
2013-08-09 12:05:32 PM

Karac: BMFPitt: Corvus: So he wants better public schools for other people even though he would not directly benefit from it.

STRING HIM UP!!

Maybe he likes the idea of them being better, but he actively works to prevent the types of reforms that would improve them.

Reforms such as what?


School choice, school competition, merit pay, parent triggers, etc.
 
2013-08-09 12:06:39 PM
It's my b-day today, and I've chosen to see Elysium tonight and I can't wait.
 
2013-08-09 12:08:07 PM

Confabulat: I'm a hypocrite about all sorts of things. Most every person I know is, in one way or another. Fine with me, I'm rarely consistent in my thoughts throughout the day, so what? I don't care. Calling me a hypocrite won't hurt my feelings because it's not an insult. It's who we are as human beings.


Well that's one way to go. Another way is to consider why you hold two conflicting views and decide which one is correct.
 
2013-08-09 12:12:10 PM

BMFPitt: Another way is to consider why you hold two conflicting views and decide which one is correct.


I can watch the same movie two times and have two completely different opinions of it. That's just how stuff is. There's no test at the end anyway, so why worry about being consistent?
 
2013-08-09 12:13:06 PM

BMFPitt: Karac: BMFPitt: Corvus: So he wants better public schools for other people even though he would not directly benefit from it.

STRING HIM UP!!

Maybe he likes the idea of them being better, but he actively works to prevent the types of reforms that would improve them.

Reforms such as what?

School choice, school competition, merit pay, parent triggers, etc.


In South Carolina at least school choice is a thinly - very thinly - veiled cover for saying "I want a tax break to send my kids to the private school I'm already sending them too."  In Louisiana, it's a thin cover for saying "We'd like to siphon tax dollars away from public schools to private religious schools that teach creationism by VHS players in cubicles".

As for merit pay, here's a short list of things which contribute to how well a student does in class:
how good the teacher is
how good last years teacher was
how much the parents help out at home
how much the parents are able to help out at home, and how much time they spend working two jobs
whether the kid got a good nights sleep
whether the kid got a decent meal
how good their neighborhood is - how much local tax dollars are able to be spent on the school district

In short, there's a very large amount of factors - if not the majority of factors - which go into how well a child learns that are COMPLETELY out of the control of the teacher.  And if it's out of their hands why should their pay be docked for it?
 
2013-08-09 12:13:35 PM
download.lardlad.com


First you didn't want me to get the pony, now you want me to take it back-make up your mind!
 
2013-08-09 12:22:00 PM
What watching Sean Hannity's show reminds me of:

jasonrivera.com
 
2013-08-09 12:24:22 PM

Confabulat: I'm a hypocrite about all sorts of things. Most every person I know is, in one way or another. Fine with me, I'm rarely consistent in my thoughts throughout the day, so what? I don't care. Calling me a hypocrite won't hurt my feelings because it's not an insult. It's who we are as human beings.


lol if you think there is any hypocrisy here
 
2013-08-09 12:26:14 PM

cenobyte40k: Supporting the improvement of something that you don't use doesn't make you a hypocrite. Honestly that word isn't that complicated. He is not telling people they must use public schools and then he doesn't. He is telling people that we should support better public education, which he does, but doesn't think it's good enough yet, so he sends his kids to private school. Wanted public school to good and not thinking it's good yet is not hypocritical. This is just reaching idiotic hyperbowl hoping to undermine their 'enemies' position.


Yes this.... I spent 20 minutes trying to organize my thoughts you pretty much nailed it on the nose
 
2013-08-09 12:28:23 PM

Ivandrago: I wouldn't trade my crappy public middle school experience for anything. It may have been bad, but it was fun as hell at the time.


I can honestly say this is the first time I've heard someone say middle school was fun.  As I recall, my middle school was full of loud, obnoxious preteens with nasty dispositions whose only agenda was to publicly ridicule the less popular kids.  Also, rampant bullying with not one single administrator giving a rat's ass that many of the smaller kids were near suicidal from the constant abuse.  In addition, an abundance of decprepit, hateful old hags for teachers that psychologically abused students with joy.  And lastly, a policy of corporal punishment that was downright terrifying.

And as the dialogue goes: "You were either a bully, a toady, or one of the nameless rabble of victims."
 
2013-08-09 12:30:11 PM

Karac: As for merit pay, here's a short list of things which contribute to how well a student does in class:
how good the teacher is
how good last years teacher was
how much the parents help out at home
how much the parents are able to help out at home, and how much time they spend working two jobs
whether the kid got a good nights sleep
whether the kid got a decent meal
how good their neighborhood is - how much local tax dollars are able to be spent on the school district

In short, there's a very large amount of factors - if not the majority of factors - which go into how well a child learns that are COMPLETELY out of the control of the teacher. And if it's out of their hands why should their pay be docked for it?


Merit pay addresses the top two elements on your list.  It give teachers a financial incentive to make sure the kids in their class do well.

The "it doesn't do everything so we shouldn't do it at all" argument isn't very helpful.
 
2013-08-09 12:34:42 PM

KatjaMouse: Ivandrago: I find this confusing. You can't be an advocate of public schools if you send your kids to private schools? I'm an advocate of strong public schools, but I went to a private high school. Does that make me a hypocrite? Why does wanting everyone to get a good education regardless of wealth make me a hypocrite?

He also released a statement that, in essence, said that he and his wife just couldn't find a public school that offered the same educational values that they grew up with. Also, it's that reason why he's a public school advocate to begin with. So yeah, I don't see the hypocrisy in this decision at all.


That's because there isn't any. People who think this is hypocritical are morons.
 
2013-08-09 12:36:51 PM

Mr. Eugenides: Karac: As for merit pay, here's a short list of things which contribute to how well a student does in class:
how good the teacher is
how good last years teacher was
how much the parents help out at home
how much the parents are able to help out at home, and how much time they spend working two jobs
whether the kid got a good nights sleep
whether the kid got a decent meal
how good their neighborhood is - how much local tax dollars are able to be spent on the school district

In short, there's a very large amount of factors - if not the majority of factors - which go into how well a child learns that are COMPLETELY out of the control of the teacher. And if it's out of their hands why should their pay be docked for it?

Merit pay addresses the top two elements on your list.  It give teachers a financial incentive to make sure the kids in their class do well.

The "it doesn't do everything so we shouldn't do it at all" argument isn't very helpful.


That is why I feel justified in punching that little punk paperboy. The news that he delivers is very depressing. Sure, my approach doesn't solve all of the factors that contribute to the shiatty news, but few solutions are perfect.
 
2013-08-09 12:41:16 PM

Ivandrago: I find this confusing. You can't be an advocate of public schools if you send your kids to private schools? I'm an advocate of strong public schools, but I went to a private high school. Does that make me a hypocrite? Why does wanting everyone to get a good education regardless of wealth make me a hypocrite?


The answer is "yes" if you're against vouchers.  If you send your kids to private school and don't want to allow vouchers so other parents can make the decision to either send their kids to public or private school ... then you are a hypocrite.
 
2013-08-09 12:41:41 PM

LlamaGirl: MAAAAAAAAAAAATT DAAAAMOOOON


You know, I heard that when Matt Damon saw that movie, he was kind of upset... that they didn't contact him to do the voice.  He thought the character was hilarious.
 
2013-08-09 12:43:06 PM

vonster: Ctrl-Alt-Del: "Lib Media flips out when [famous conservative] does [any action]"

Same same


media.animevice.com
 
2013-08-09 12:44:08 PM

theknuckler_33: FIELDS: He loves talking them up, but doesn't want to send his kids there.
You know, he said he didn't have a choice. He had to do it. Actually he did have a choice. The people who don't have a choice are the rest of Americans who don't have Matt Damon's bank account and can't afford to send their kids to a private school.
...
HANNITY: She's brining up a point you're ignoring. Why not give every American a choice?

You heard it here first, America. Sean Hannity advocating giving every American the money they need to send their kids to private schools.


Nope.  Hannity is advocating giving every American child back the money the government intends to spend on their schooling and letting their parents choose whether to spend it on public schooling or private schooling.  Big difference (which, of course, you were aware of when you typed out your troll post).
 
2013-08-09 12:45:04 PM

Confabulat: BMFPitt: Another way is to consider why you hold two conflicting views and decide which one is correct.

I can watch the same movie two times and have two completely different opinions of it. That's just how stuff is. There's no test at the end anyway, so why worry about being consistent?


So you don't know the difference between hypocrisy and changing your mind?
 
2013-08-09 12:45:41 PM

SunsetLament: Nope. Hannity is advocating giving every American child back the money the government intends to spend on their schooling and letting their parents choose whether to spend it on public schooling or private schooling

American madrassas.
 
2013-08-09 12:47:15 PM

Ivandrago: I find this confusing. You can't be an advocate of public schools if you send your kids to private schools? I'm an advocate of strong public schools, but I went to a private high school. Does that make me a hypocrite? Why does wanting everyone to get a good education regardless of wealth make me a hypocrite?


You want things that aren't for yourself?  That's unpossible.  I call hypocrite!
 
2013-08-09 12:49:24 PM

ristst: Ivandrago: I wouldn't trade my crappy public middle school experience for anything. It may have been bad, but it was fun as hell at the time.

I can honestly say this is the first time I've heard someone say middle school was fun.  As I recall, my middle school was full of loud, obnoxious preteens with nasty dispositions whose only agenda was to publicly ridicule the less popular kids.  Also, rampant bullying with not one single administrator giving a rat's ass that many of the smaller kids were near suicidal from the constant abuse.  In addition, an abundance of decprepit, hateful old hags for teachers that psychologically abused students with joy.  And lastly, a policy of corporal punishment that was downright terrifying.

And as the dialogue goes: "You were either a bully, a toady, or one of the nameless rabble of victims."


My middle school was fun because even though I was certainly one of the nameless rabble of victims, when I wasn't being victimized, I was basically free to do whatever I wanted to. I met the three people I would consider my closest friends there. I had one or two teachers that cared and that was enough. I never did homework, I never studied for tests, I could skip class whenever I wanted to and no one noticed. I got beaten up, publicly humiliated a few times, but aside from those times it was ok. When it was just my friends and I playing Magic in the lunchroom because we skipped class, or riding my friend's bus home so I could play D&D at his house (caught abuse from some kids for that because "I didn't belong on that bus"), watching the tough kids fight, and the lunchroom had the most amazing pretzels I've ever had in my life made it ok in hindsight.
 
2013-08-09 12:53:53 PM

SunsetLament: If you send your kids to private school and don't want to allow vouchers so other parents can make the decision to either send their kids to public or private school ... then you are a hypocrite.


Go figure - rich people can afford to buy nicer things for themselves and their kids than the equivalent things that poor people get from the government? Why do you hate capitalism, comrade?

 
2013-08-09 12:56:00 PM
BMFPitt:

Reforms such as what?

School choice, school competition, merit pay, parent triggers, etc.


None of which work.  Even NRO wrote an article the other day how school choice doesn't work.  Of course, they promised if only we spent MORE money on it it would.  If we want a system that works, we should emulate Finland the best system in the world.  However, the current crop of school reformers seem more keen on emulating Somalia.
 
2013-08-09 12:56:24 PM

Mr. Eugenides: Karac: As for merit pay, here's a short list of things which contribute to how well a student does in class:
how good the teacher is
how good last years teacher was
how much the parents help out at home
how much the parents are able to help out at home, and how much time they spend working two jobs
whether the kid got a good nights sleep
whether the kid got a decent meal
how good their neighborhood is - how much local tax dollars are able to be spent on the school district

In short, there's a very large amount of factors - if not the majority of factors - which go into how well a child learns that are COMPLETELY out of the control of the teacher. And if it's out of their hands why should their pay be docked for it?

Merit pay addresses the top two elements on your list.  It give teachers a financial incentive to make sure the kids in their class do well.

The "it doesn't do everything so we shouldn't do it at all" argument isn't very helpful.


It's not that it doesn't do everything.  It's that it hardly does anything.
A much better option for improving public schools would be to end this outbreak of teacher bashing we've been on for a while.  If you want the quality of teachers to improve then you should:
- start promoting them as honorable and dignified professionals, instead of glorified day care workers out to mentally indoctrinate your children and bilk the taxpayers out of a humongous salary of 50K a year.
- start programs to actually help them out in classrooms.  Pair up experienced educators with new ones, or even with college students getting education degrees.  That'd decrease the workload on the senior teacher, and give the newbie actual hands-on training.

Basically, if you want better teachers, then stop promoting teaching as an evil occupation so the quality of your incoming pool goes up, and try actually helping the ones you've already got.
 
2013-08-09 12:58:38 PM

Zeb Hesselgresser: Doesn't tying the measure of poverty to median income make it unlikely that we will ever win the WOP?


Only if you've got a situation with EXTREME weighting to one side.

Debeo Summa Credo: Which means we have a wider distribution of wealth


That is true.

Debeo Summa Credo: not necessarily that we have more poor


Wealth is relative to the people you use for comparison. Your statement, though, is only true if you use people in places unlike the U.S. as your basis for comparison. Which is to say that our poor are only average or wealthy relative to people in Haiti if they actually move to Haiti and the economic force of Haiti apply to them. While they are here and living under the economic forces that affect the U.S., they are poor. The argument you put forward is a version of the laughably absurd "poor people have refrigerators" statistical. It doesn't matter if a man in Florida has a refrigerator while a man in Haiti doesn't eve have a roof. The man Florida is not neighbors with the man in Haiti, he is neighbors with the man next door, and if that man has a Rolls Royce, the man with the refrigerator is poor.

Debeo Summa Credo: A nation comprised of 1% oligarchs and 99% subsistence plebes (who each have the same miserable income) would have no poverty under that rationale.


If such a place existed it would make sense to alter the definition for such extreme and unusual circumstances. However, it would require such a drastically broken economic system that those measurement would be useless anyway because the underlying problems causing those numbers would need to be dealt with before any meaningful discussion on income levels could be had. That the number could be broken by hypothetical extremes does not inherently mean anything and, in fact, the measurements that the U.S. uses to actually set policy regarding poverty are constantly being tweaked, a reflection of the fact that differing circumstances must be taken into account to avoid over or under representing the number of affected individuals.

Regardless, the OECD measure tracks very closely to the internal U.S. measure. What they consider an impoverished household is almost spot-on with the poverty line the U.S. draws for a family of four.
 
2013-08-09 01:01:30 PM

ltr77: BMFPitt:

Reforms such as what?

School choice, school competition, merit pay, parent triggers, etc.

None of which work.  Even NRO wrote an article the other day how school choice doesn't work.  Of course, they promised if only we spent MORE money on it it would.  If we want a system that works, we should emulate Finland the best system in the world.  However, the current crop of school reformers seem more keen on emulating Somalia.


True. I feel a prerequisite for this discussion is this book. It's by Diane Ratvitch who was an assistant secretary of education for H.W. Bush and Clinton. She was at that time an advocate of school choice, vouchers etc. However her research and experience lead to to write that book which explains why those movements are seriously damaging American schools.
 
2013-08-09 01:03:45 PM
Karac: In South Carolina at least school choice is a thinly - very thinly - veiled cover for saying "I want a tax break to send my kids to the private school I'm already sending them too."

I'm fine with that.

In Louisiana, it's a thin cover for saying "We'd like to siphon tax dollars away from public schools to private religious schools that teach creationism by VHS players in cubicles".

And any place where such schools could find parents willing to send their kids there probably has the same thing going on in public schools right now. At least that would be cheaper for the taxpayers, leaving more money to fund actual good schools for the kids that have a chance.

As for merit pay, here's a short list of things which contribute to how well a student does in class:
...


And the list is much longer than that. And most of those are measurable directly or indirectly, and could be incorporated into a rating formula if they are found to be statistically significant.

In short, there's a very large amount of factors - if not the majority of factors - which go into how well a child learns that are COMPLETELY out of the control of the teacher. And if it's out of their hands why should their pay be docked for it?

I don't share your opinion that teachers are interchangeable cogs who are incapable of producing measurable results or demonstrating varying levels of skill to observers. I also can't comprehend why you call the giving of higher raises to some to be docking the pay of others.

That is why I feel justified in punching that little punk paperboy. The news that he delivers is very depressing. Sure, my approach doesn't solve all of the factors that contribute to the shiatty news, but few solutions are perfect.

You think that punching him solves some of the factors? Well given the rest of your logic, I'm not surprised.
 
2013-08-09 01:07:40 PM

odinsposse: ltr77: BMFPitt:

Reforms such as what?

School choice, school competition, merit pay, parent triggers, etc.

None of which work.  Even NRO wrote an article the other day how school choice doesn't work.  Of course, they promised if only we spent MORE money on it it would.  If we want a system that works, we should emulate Finland the best system in the world.  However, the current crop of school reformers seem more keen on emulating Somalia.

True. I feel a prerequisite for this discussion is this book. It's by Diane Ratvitch who was an assistant secretary of education for H.W. Bush and Clinton. She was at that time an advocate of school choice, vouchers etc. However her research and experience lead to to write that book which explains why those movements are seriously damaging American schools.


Today's education "reformers" remind me a lot of the alchemists of days gone by.  Any moment now, they will come up with a formula that turns lead into gold.  They are certain of it, no matter what science and history tells them.
 
2013-08-09 01:11:46 PM
 At Weasle News this is what qualifies outrage? Just because Matt Damon advocates for poor people and sends his kids to a private school?!  Well I suppose they attack anyone that advocates for the poor, but since he's "one of their class" they feel threatened by it.
 
2013-08-09 01:13:39 PM
"For thee, but not for me"

Let's agree to call out hypocrites of all political persuasions.

thepersuasionslive.com
 
2013-08-09 01:14:29 PM

BMFPitt: And any place where such schools could find parents willing to send their kids there probably has the same thing going on in public schools right now. At least that would be cheaper for the taxpayers, leaving more money to fund actual good schools for the kids that have a chance.


Actually, no.  Public schools are not legally allowed to teach creationism.  Or to house children in cubicles, have them watch movies all day, and call that 'teaching'.  And how in the world could diverting money from a public school by using the percentage of the funding they'd spend on a student to a scholarship for that student to go to a private school possibly 'leave more money to fund' that public school.

BMFPitt: I don't share your opinion that teachers are interchangeable cogs who are incapable of producing measurable results or demonstrating varying levels of skill to observers. I also can't comprehend why you call the giving of higher raises to some to be docking the pay of others.


I call it docking the pay of others because some of the proposals for merit pay in my state have actually including docking teachers pay if they didn't meet some legislatively set standard.

BMFPitt: You think that punching him solves some of the factors? Well given the rest of your logic, I'm not surprised.


I'm not too concerned for how you view my logic, given your obvious inability to determine the person you're responding to.
 
2013-08-09 01:17:05 PM
Matt Damon opted out of the public school system because it sucks and he can.

I hope he starts advocating for everyone to have the same choice available.
 
2013-08-09 01:19:19 PM

odinsposse: ltr77: BMFPitt:

Reforms such as what?

School choice, school competition, merit pay, parent triggers, etc.

None of which work.  Even NRO wrote an article the other day how school choice doesn't work.  Of course, they promised if only we spent MORE money on it it would.  If we want a system that works, we should emulate Finland the best system in the world.  However, the current crop of school reformers seem more keen on emulating Somalia.

True. I feel a prerequisite for this discussion is this book. It's by Diane Ratvitch who was an assistant secretary of education for H.W. Bush and Clinton. She was at that time an advocate of school choice, vouchers etc. However her research and experience lead to to write that book which explains why those movements are seriously damaging American schools.

I agree, another great book is Schools our Children Deserve by Alfie Kohn.  Of course, it advocates against standardized testing and unfortunately there is A LOT of money to be made off of those.
 
2013-08-09 01:20:16 PM

SunsetLament: theknuckler_33: FIELDS: He loves talking them up, but doesn't want to send his kids there.
You know, he said he didn't have a choice. He had to do it. Actually he did have a choice. The people who don't have a choice are the rest of Americans who don't have Matt Damon's bank account and can't afford to send their kids to a private school.
...
HANNITY: She's brining up a point you're ignoring. Why not give every American a choice?

You heard it here first, America. Sean Hannity advocating giving every American the money they need to send their kids to private schools.

Nope.  Hannity is advocating giving every American child back the money the government intends to spend on their schooling and letting their parents choose whether to spend it on public schooling or private schooling.  Big difference (which, of course, you were aware of when you typed out your troll post).


I've never understood this argument. It will undoubtedly cost more to send the kids to private schools so there's a gap to be made up. If you're willing to pay the difference, why resist an equivalently expensive tax increase in order to fund public schools well enough to make them if comparable quality?

Note: that's actually ignoring the fact that it wouldn't be equivalently expensive because of economies of scale.

Difficulty: no relying on "gubmint bad, therefore public schools will suck no matter what" argument.
 
2013-08-09 01:26:00 PM

ManRay: Matt Damon opted out of the public school system because it sucks and he can.

I hope he starts advocating for everyone to have the same choice available.


Hear, hear! He should be advocating for everyone to have an income that's much higher than the average. That would make a lot of sense if it wasn't for, you know, math.
 
2013-08-09 01:26:17 PM
Liberals know what is best for everyone.

And they especially know that it doesn't apply to them.
 
2013-08-09 01:26:49 PM

ManRay: Matt Damon opted out of the public school system because it sucks and he can.

I hope he starts advocating for everyone to have the same choice available.


Public schools are public because they're required to take all comers.  They can't reject anyone, and they're supported by public dollars.

Now, if you think everyone should have the same choice then you're limited to a few options:

1) As it is now: where if you have the money and your kid's well enough behaved, you can send him to a private school.
2) You drop public schools, and tell people to send their kids to private schools without supporting them - basically doing away with widespread education and literacy.
3) Require private schools to take all comers - which would basically turn them into public schools.
 
2013-08-09 01:27:55 PM

cchris_39: Liberals know what is best for everyone.

And they especially know that it doesn't apply to them.


We do, it's true! What's best for you would be a Cleveland Steamer.
 
2013-08-09 01:33:57 PM
My own little fantasy is that there be a rule that Democrats must send their kids to public schools. That would include the Secretary of Education, the President, city mayors, teachers and the media elite.

In real life I believe in freedom so I would never like this to be a law ....but it would warm my heart to see people practice what they preach.
 
2013-08-09 01:38:53 PM

Mikey1969: Wow... So if Matt Damon contributed money to homeless shelters wold Fox immediately call him a hypocrite for living in a house of his own?


I think a more apt example of hypocrisy would be if he advocated that everyone donated to homeless shelters and then we found out that he never did.
 
2013-08-09 01:48:48 PM

Vectron: I think a more apt example of hypocrisy would be if he advocated that everyone donated to homeless shelters and then we found out that he never did.


So.... has Matt Damon advocated for everyone else to send their kids to public school?

Because from what I can tell, he's actually been rather critical about the current state of the public education system and publicly lamented what he views as a decline since he attended and his father taught.

In fact, he's currently under attack from LA public school boosters over his comments....
 
2013-08-09 01:50:10 PM

Vectron: In real life I believe in freedom so I would never like this to be a law ....but it would warm my heart to see people practice what they preach consume public resources which they do not need.

 
2013-08-09 01:50:45 PM
okazakifragments.files.wordpress.com
FOX News outraged? Unpossible! Thank you for keeping us infromed!
 
2013-08-09 02:00:12 PM

kronicfeld: Vectron: In real life I believe in freedom so I would never like this to be a law ....but it would warm my heart to see people practice what they preach consume public resources which they do not need.


That's just spin. But let me turn it around. Think how much public schools would benefit if say in New York City, all the parents with kids in private school became engaged in their children's public school.
Or in Washington DC; all the parents with children at Sidwell Friends were suddenly engaged in the DC school system.
 
2013-08-09 02:01:05 PM

Karac: ManRay: Matt Damon opted out of the public school system because it sucks and he can.

I hope he starts advocating for everyone to have the same choice available.

Public schools are public because they're required to take all comers.  They can't reject anyone, and they're supported by public dollars.

Now, if you think everyone should have the same choice then you're limited to a few options:

1) As it is now: where if you have the money and your kid's well enough behaved, you can send him to a private school.
2) You drop public schools, and tell people to send their kids to private schools without supporting them - basically doing away with widespread education and literacy.
3) Require private schools to take all comers - which would basically turn them into public schools.


1) So if you don't have the money you are condemned to whatever school the government provides?
2) Who is advocating that? No one. "The money follows the student" is not "defund everything, everyone is on their own".
3) Public schools with (likely) different standards? OK.  Matt Damon wanted a more progressive education for his kids and the public school does not provide that so he choose something else because he has the means to.

Matt Damon is a big supporter of teachers and public schools because his mother was a teacher. He looked at the public school his children would go to and determined they were not a good fit. I respect that choice. I want the single mother in the 'hood to have the same options (even within the public school district) as MD does.
 
2013-08-09 02:06:17 PM
Liberals claim to want clean air, but breathe dirty air daily.  This hypocrisy exposed, tonight on Hannity.
 
2013-08-09 02:13:20 PM

ManRay: Karac: ManRay: Matt Damon opted out of the public school system because it sucks and he can.

I hope he starts advocating for everyone to have the same choice available.

Public schools are public because they're required to take all comers.  They can't reject anyone, and they're supported by public dollars.

Now, if you think everyone should have the same choice then you're limited to a few options:

1) As it is now: where if you have the money and your kid's well enough behaved, you can send him to a private school.
2) You drop public schools, and tell people to send their kids to private schools without supporting them - basically doing away with widespread education and literacy.
3) Require private schools to take all comers - which would basically turn them into public schools.

1) So if you don't have the money you are condemned to whatever school the government provides?
2) Who is advocating that? No one. "The money follows the student" is not "defund everything, everyone is on their own".
3) Public schools with (likely) different standards? OK.  Matt Damon wanted a more progressive education for his kids and the public school does not provide that so he choose something else because he has the means to.

Matt Damon is a big supporter of teachers and public schools because his mother was a teacher. He looked at the public school his children would go to and determined they were not a good fit. I respect that choice. I want the single mother in the 'hood to have the same options (even within the public school district) as MD does.


1) Yeah, that's about how it works.  If you don't have the money to afford an option, then you take what you can get for free.
2) "The money follows the student", *is* 'defund everything'.  Or it's just running a con on voters because you know that there's no way private schools could take all comers - meaning that 'choice' is still a pipe dream for anyone who can't already afford it.
3) Look at the 'standards' Louisiana has set up for private schools getting public monies.  Some of them don't even deserve the title 'school'.  And if your school is running off of taxpayer dollars, then yes - the government should be able to set certain minimum standards for the product it's buying.

School choice - just within public schools, is something I can get behind.  I doubt it would work too well - after all, if your kids school is shiatty, then it's a pretty good bet that all of the local schools are shiatty; and an almost certain bet that whichever one isn't shiatty is already at capacity.

But school choice as the local district sending a check to whichever private school you decide to send Johnny to?  That's just a scheme for people who can already afford to send their kid to a private school to get a tax cut.  I've NEVER seen a plan for that which would give any kind of reasonable number of students 'choice'.  At most it'll have a handful of kids to trot out as tokens, but the vast majority of it will be just another method to 'starve the beast' of government.
 
2013-08-09 02:15:15 PM
Stoopid Fox News.

I feel so bad for Matt Damon and his children.  The poor guy is being forced to send his kids to private school because of the right wing nut jobs that run the LA Public School system.

For shame, America.  For shame...
 
2013-08-09 02:15:34 PM
FIELDS: Matt Damon said he didn't want to send his children there because it wasn't progressive enough. What about Americans who think the public school system is too progressive? What if they want a school with Christian values. They can't send their kids there.

Um, people send their kids to conservative Christian schools all the damn time.
 
2013-08-09 02:22:18 PM

Truther: Stoopid Fox News.

I feel so bad for Matt Damon and his children.  The poor guy is being forced to send his kids to private school because of the right wing nut jobs that run the LA Public School system.

For shame, America.  For shame...


OK, you're trolling, but for anyone who's interested, here's a good article on the decline of California's public education system:

http://www.salon.com/2012/10/02/california_educations_painful_declin e/

It will come as no surprise to anyone with a functional cerebrum that this decline wasn't precipitated by a bunch of goddamned lefty teachers.
 
2013-08-09 02:29:09 PM
I bet that private school doesn't even teach "Intelligent Design".
 
2013-08-09 02:30:37 PM

Delawheredad: When Jimmy Carter was president he sent Amy to a PUBLIC elementary school in Washington, D.C. Carter was not a good president but what you could never fault him on was this. He was and is a man of integrity. If all the smart and rich kids like Matt Damon's go to private schools the public schools are AUTOMATICALLY SHORTCHANGED AND MADE WORSE!

  I've been on all sides of the debate. I have home schooled my kids AND sent them to public schools. When I first decided to home school my oldest son his public school teacher responded with "There go the class test scores!"
My son got a better education but his peers lost out on his presence. The SAME thing is happening with Matt Damon's kids!


Have you ever read Amy Carter's account of being in public school? She was miserable because due to security concerns she was never fully able to leave the facilities and mingle with other students. It's a dumb comparison and you should feel bad.
 
2013-08-09 02:35:45 PM

HeadLever: Public school is for poor people.  Why should I send my kids there?


Yes because there are no public schools in upper-middle and wealthy areas. Derp!
 
2013-08-09 03:30:43 PM

Poopspasm: SunsetLament: theknuckler_33: FIELDS: He loves talking them up, but doesn't want to send his kids there.
You know, he said he didn't have a choice. He had to do it. Actually he did have a choice. The people who don't have a choice are the rest of Americans who don't have Matt Damon's bank account and can't afford to send their kids to a private school.
...
HANNITY: She's brining up a point you're ignoring. Why not give every American a choice?

You heard it here first, America. Sean Hannity advocating giving every American the money they need to send their kids to private schools.

Nope.  Hannity is advocating giving every American child back the money the government intends to spend on their schooling and letting their parents choose whether to spend it on public schooling or private schooling.  Big difference (which, of course, you were aware of when you typed out your troll post).

I've never understood this argument. It will undoubtedly cost more to send the kids to private schools so there's a gap to be made up. If you're willing to pay the difference, why resist an equivalently expensive tax increase in order to fund public schools well enough to make them if comparable quality?

Note: that's actually ignoring the fact that it wouldn't be equivalently expensive because of economies of scale.

Difficulty: no relying on "gubmint bad, therefore public schools will suck no matter what" argument.


Because there are certain things some parents don't want their kids being taught in school (one example would be sex education) and the point of the vouchers is that they can take the money and use it to get their kids the education that they feel is best.  You say "Difficulty: no relying on "gubmint bad" ... but sorry, there's a huge portion of this country's populace that believes gubmint has been farking up the public education system for decades (and it's getting worse, not better).  If the private sector provides a better (or more cost effective) education than the public sector, why should the populace be forced to prop up these uneffective public schools further?

ANSWER:  Because it's an entity (the education system) that liberals have a complete stranglehold over and they don't want anyone to slip out of the system under any circumstances.
 
2013-08-09 03:31:58 PM

Wooly Bully: Truther: Stoopid Fox News.

I feel so bad for Matt Damon and his children.  The poor guy is being forced to send his kids to private school because of the right wing nut jobs that run the LA Public School system.

For shame, America.  For shame...

OK, you're trolling, but for anyone who's interested, here's a good article on the decline of California's public education system:

http://www.salon.com/2012/10/02/california_educations_painful_declin e/

It will come as no surprise to anyone with a functional cerebrum that this decline wasn't precipitated by a bunch of goddamned lefty teachers.


No trolling, being sarcastic.

Damon spoke out, quite loudly, about public schools and the need to support them (and against school choice).

Personally, I am happy he can afford to send his kids to the school he thinks will be best for his kids.  I think all parents should have some choices in choosing the school that they feel would give their children the best education.

I don't blame the "lefty teachers" - they have a really tough job.  I do blame those who say they know what's best for us, while not subscribing to the beliefs they push on us.
 
2013-08-09 03:40:30 PM
Damon seems like a well meaning guy, but if you are going to open your mouth in public, your foot is going to go in there eventually.
 
2013-08-09 03:42:12 PM
This is me doing the "wanking" motion.
 
2013-08-09 03:50:19 PM

Vectron: Damon seems like a well meaning guy, but if you are going to open your mouth in public, your foot is going to go in there eventually.


Still waitin' on an answer to my question, buddy....
 
2013-08-09 03:50:46 PM

SunsetLament: Because there are certain things some parents don't want their kids being taught in school (one example would be sex education)


Even school in the nation allows parents to opt their kids out of the birds & bees classes.

Now as for other things, such as including lessons on the non-biblical based math or evolution - well, if you object to your kids learning about objective reality, then you have a lot of problems unassociated with the ebil gubmint.
 
2013-08-09 03:58:14 PM

skozlaw: Vectron: Damon seems like a well meaning guy, but if you are going to open your mouth in public, your foot is going to go in there eventually.

Still waitin' on an answer to my question, buddy....


skozlaw: So.... has Matt Damon advocated for everyone else to send their kids to public school?


I don't know all his comments but in my opinion, if you are going to be an advocate for better public education (is that an unfair characterization?) one should support it by being active in the schools. That's what my wife and I did. We both helped out at our public school to make it better for everyone. That's just what normal people do.
 
2013-08-09 04:09:47 PM

austerity101: FIELDS: Matt Damon said he didn't want to send his children there because it wasn't progressive enough. What about Americans who think the public school system is too progressive? What if they want a school with Christian values. They can't send their kids there.

Um, people send their kids to conservative Christian schools all the damn time.


The issue is that these folks demand a handout to take that option. And that is the bugbear of "school choice" are a ton of people who want to opt out of public school systems, while still having said education paid for by the public. It is a position that IS baffling--almost as much as the folks who want to know why THEY should pay for public schools when they have no children themselves--ignoring of course that they might one day like to employ, be employed by, or even go to doctor or contractor who has an education...
 
2013-08-09 04:21:17 PM

Truther: No trolling, being sarcastic.


Hey, if you sound exactly like a troll and pick a login like "Truther", expect people to react accordingly.

You ignored the information in that Salon piece. The story of how those schools became so bad has absolutely nothing to do with a lack of "choice", and there is absolutely no evidence that introducing "choice" will make things any better.
 
2013-08-09 04:28:32 PM

Karac: SunsetLament: Because there are certain things some parents don't want their kids being taught in school (one example would be sex education)

Even school in the nation allows parents to opt their kids out of the birds & bees classes.

Now as for other things, such as including lessons on the non-biblical based math or evolution - well, if you object to your kids learning about objective reality, then you have a lot of problems unassociated with the ebil gubmint.


Meanwhile, when given the opportunity, people are flocking away from public schools en mass.
 
2013-08-09 04:50:33 PM

SunsetLament: Because there are certain things some parents don't want their kids being taught in school (one example would be sex education) and the point of the vouchers is that they can take the money and use it to get their kids the education that they feel is best.


I would argue that parents shouldn't get to opt their kids out of sex ed.  A lack of comprehensive sexual education causes unwanted pregnancies and the spread of disease, demonstrated in states with abstinence-only education.  Society at large has a very vested interest in a populace that understands the biology and physiology of sex.

You say "Difficulty: no relying on "gubmint bad" ... but sorry, there's a huge portion of this country's populace that believes gubmint has been farking up the public education system for decades (and it's getting worse, not better).  If the private sector provides a better (or more cost effective) education than the public sector, why should the populace be forced to prop up these uneffective public schools further?

The government that has been farking up the public education system is the one that they (i.e., the conservatives) have been electing.  It seems ironic at best and hypocritical at worst that they would complain about the education reforms effected by the very people they put in charge to do that.

Also, the private sector does not provide a better or more cost-effective education.  The mere fact that the private sector functions on profit necessitates that this be true.  If the private sector were better at education, we'd find that the world's best education systems were private; they're not.

ANSWER:  Because it's an entity (the education system) that liberals have a complete stranglehold over and they don't want anyone to slip out of the system under any circumstances.

Well that's just silly.
 
2013-08-09 05:12:57 PM

Wooly Bully: Truther: No trolling, being sarcastic.

Hey, if you sound exactly like a troll and pick a login like "Truther", expect people to react accordingly.

You ignored the information in that Salon piece. The story of how those schools became so bad has absolutely nothing to do with a lack of "choice", and there is absolutely no evidence that introducing "choice" will make things any better.


When you label everything you disagree with "trolling"...

As other have pointed out, why doesnt he send his kids there and work to make those schools better?  As he TELLS EVERYONE ELSE THAT'S WHAT THEY SHOULD DO.

That's the joy of Fark Politics.  You are right, 100% of the time.

Anyone who disagrees is either a troll, dumb or an evil republican!!
 
2013-08-09 05:21:38 PM

Truther: Wooly Bully: Truther: No trolling, being sarcastic.

Hey, if you sound exactly like a troll and pick a login like "Truther", expect people to react accordingly.

You ignored the information in that Salon piece. The story of how those schools became so bad has absolutely nothing to do with a lack of "choice", and there is absolutely no evidence that introducing "choice" will make things any better.

When you label everything you disagree with "trolling"...

As other have pointed out, why doesnt he send his kids there and work to make those schools better?  As he TELLS EVERYONE ELSE THAT'S WHAT THEY SHOULD DO.

That's the joy of Fark Politics.  You are right, 100% of the time.

Anyone who disagrees is either a troll, dumb or an evil republican!!


Well that little rant certainly boosted your credibility.
 
2013-08-09 05:27:02 PM

Truther: As other have pointed out, why doesnt he send his kids there and work to make those schools better? As he TELLS EVERYONE ELSE THAT'S WHAT THEY SHOULD DO.


He tells everyone not to enroll in private schools?  I'm sure you have a quote on this.
 
2013-08-09 05:45:10 PM

Fart_Machine: Truther: As other have pointed out, why doesnt he send his kids there and work to make those schools better? As he TELLS EVERYONE ELSE THAT'S WHAT THEY SHOULD DO.

He tells everyone not to enroll in private schools?  I'm sure you have a quote on this.


It was in large bold caps, isn't that enough?
 
2013-08-09 05:55:20 PM
Wealthy, Smug progressives push for policies for which they have no plan to participate?  Sounds par for the course....

Every foreign car with an Obama sticker on it is a daily reminder about how every idea in progressivism is for everyone else.  Socialism is after all for the people, and not the socialist himself.  Matt Damon is a proponent of public schools he just chooses not to send his kids there.  The Chicago teachers Union went on strike for more money to "Make the schools better" when in reality, half of them send their kids to private school.
 
2013-08-09 06:19:23 PM

Dr.Mxyzptlk.: Ivandrago: I find this confusing. You can't be an advocate of public schools if you send your kids to private schools? I'm an advocate of strong public schools, but I went to a private high school. Does that make me a hypocrite? Why does wanting everyone to get a good education regardless of wealth make me a hypocrite?

I think it's the lack of a good education and graduation rates in many schools that concern people.
 Not the pursuit of a good education.
Matt Damon and others only reinforce the same policies and administration that have left millions trapped in a poverty,
These families are living the broken earth while he is the one actually living in Elysium.

Waiting for Superman addressed all this crap but was ignored and buried .http://youtu.be/ZKTfaro96dg

It's easier to just "derp" Romney "derp" republicans "derp" white guys. Rather than dig in and do the real work.
Matt Damon didn't change one damn thing with his little feel good speech.


Waiting for Superman wasn't ignored, It was debunked. Matt Damon isn't taking resources from public schools (the way the voucher people or the privatisers do). That means that he is not living in Elysium, especially when he spends his time and resources to help make public school better, as opposed to those who are merely looting the system.

Oh, and charter schools, on average, perform either on the same level or worse than public schools.
 
2013-08-09 06:59:20 PM
Aggressively advocating for wars you have absolutely NO intention of enlisting to fight in is still cool, though. Right?
 
2013-08-09 07:04:34 PM

technicolor-misfit: Aggressively advocating for wars you have absolutely NO intention of enlisting to fight in is still cool, though. Right?


No that sucks too. That's a hallmark of neo-conservatism. All the chicken hawks make me sick.
 
2013-08-09 07:04:55 PM
Well... what kind of idiot sends his kids to public school?
 
2013-08-09 07:13:41 PM

o5iiawah: Wealthy, Smug progressives push for policies for which they have no plan to participate? Sounds par for the course....


Because I'm sure he's exempt from his taxes going towards public education?

o5iiawah: Every foreign car with an Obama sticker on it is a daily reminder about how every idea in progressivism is for everyone else.


You're making even less sense that you usually do.
 
2013-08-09 07:15:35 PM

vonster: Ctrl-Alt-Del: "Lib Media flips out when [famous conservative] does [any action]"

Same same


Gee, I hope you have a good example of such an unjustified flipping out and aren't just fabricating narratives from your own lack of perception.
 
2013-08-09 07:19:47 PM

Hickory-smoked: Gee, I hope you have a good example of such an unjustified flipping out and aren't just fabricating narratives from your own lack of perception.


Ted Nugent threatens to machine gun the President.  Matt Damon sends his kid to a private school.  Both sides are bad.
 
2013-08-09 08:42:21 PM

ltr77: Today's education "reformers" remind me a lot of the alchemists of days gone by.  Any moment now, they will come up with a formula that turns lead into gold.  They are certain of it, no matter what science and history tells them.


While anti-reformers just keep pointing at lead and saying that it would become gold if we just added more lead.

Karac: Actually, no.  Public schools are not legally allowed to teach creationism.


And yet it's been all of 3 days since a story on Fark about a public school teacher teaching creationism.  Or if you'd prefer one where it is overtly state sponsored, here's this.

And how in the world could diverting money from a public school by using the percentage of the funding they'd spend on a student to a scholarship for that student to go to a private school possibly 'leave more money to fund' that public school.

Charter schools typically get a fraction of what traditional public schools get per student.  Therefore the budget can remain the same while throwing even more money at the problem for those students who don't opt out.

I call it docking the pay of others because some of the proposals for merit pay in my state have actually including docking teachers pay if they didn't meet some legislatively set standard.

Well that's a separate issue, and I'd say that if you're bad enough to have your pay docked you shouldn't be working there.

ManRay: Matt Damon is a big supporter of teachers and public schools because his mother was a teacher.


If only he was as big a supporter of students.

Karac: School choice - just within public schools, is something I can get behind.  I doubt it would work too well - after all, if your kids school is shiatty, then it's a pretty good bet that all of the local schools are shiatty; and an almost certain bet that whichever one isn't shiatty is already at capacity.


So ignoring the fact that this is basically the entire premise of charter schools, which are public schools,

But school choice as the local district sending a check to whichever private school you decide to send Johnny to?  That's just a scheme for people who can already afford to send their kid to a private school to get a tax cut.

Even the ones exclusive to low-income kids who have already spent years in a failing school?

I've NEVER seen a plan for that which would give any kind of reasonable number of students 'choice'.  At most it'll have a handful of kids to trot out as tokens, but the vast majority of it will be just another method to 'starve the beast' of government.

I agree that such programs should be expanded so more kids have a choice.

DeaH: Oh, and charter schools, on average, perform either on the same level or worse than public schools.


Actually, as per the article you cited, the same number overperformed as underperformed.  For a lower price tag.  And the results are quickly improving over time while traditional public schools are stagnant.

And if you actually click through to the study, it gets much worse for your side:

"The difference in learning in New Orleans charter school equates to four months of additional learning in reading and five more months of learning in math. These outcomes are consistent with the result that charter schools have significantly better results than TPS for Black students who are in poverty. A substantial share of Louisiana charter schools appear to outpace TPS in how well they support academic learning gains in their students in both reading and math."

"Fifty percent of New Orleans charter schools have significantly better learning gains in reading than their local option, while 62 percent of charters outperform in math. Just 6 percent and 4 percent of New Orleans charter schools have lower learning gains than TPS in reading and math, respectively."


So thanks for that.  It's fresher data than what I previously had bookmarked.
 
2013-08-09 09:01:51 PM
What?

[reads article]

the f*ck?

That's as stupid as when they were deriding Obama's girls for having their own private security guards.
 
2013-08-09 09:47:29 PM

BMFPitt: ltr77: Today's education "reformers" remind me a lot of the alchemists of days gone by.  Any moment now, they will come up with a formula that turns lead into gold.  They are certain of it, no matter what science and history tells them.

While anti-reformers just keep pointing at lead and saying that it would become gold if we just added more lead.

Actually, most of the people I have seen that are against the current attempts at privatization of school seem to be the ones most serious about actual reforms.  They are the ones who time and time again ask us to stick with what will work.  Teacher led reform, less testing and more learning, and emulating the best school systems in the world.  The idea of charter schools is absolutely ridiculous, and if you have seen the common core testing coming out of NYC, you would see that although nobody is doing particularly well, the miracle charters (like KIPP) seem to be doing the absolute worst.  This despite kicking out 10x as many students as the public school does.
 
2013-08-09 09:54:48 PM

Gyrfalcon: What?

[reads article]

the f*ck?

That's as stupid as when they were deriding Obama's girls for having their own private security guards.


It is Hannity after all. Bright and balanced isn't exactly what you think of when you picture him. Backpfeifengesicht is the proper term in my grandfather's peoples' tongue...
 
2013-08-09 10:13:06 PM
On the one hand, I do not see why someone cannot be an advocate for public schools, yet depending on their situation, send their children to private schools.  While President Carter was "brave" for sending Amy to public school in DC while he was president, the reality is that there is no way President and Mrs. Obama could send their daughters to a DC public school and still be able to sleep at night.  This does not preclude the president from promoting the benefits of public schools (opposing vouchers for certain school systems is a different story IMO).

Without knowing where Matt Damon lives or what school he sends his children to (they might have special talents that a private school fosters), so it really is unfair IMO to criticize Matt Damon in this instance.

Now if he is opposed to school choice and voucher program for certain school districts, then I would have a problem with that stance.
 
2013-08-09 11:06:01 PM

Dancin_In_Anson: No, he won life's lottery and can afford things that the shrinking middle class and lower classes can't. Probably takes advantage of all kinds of tax loopholes in order to keep from paying his fair share too.


Actually, I believe Mr. Damon works for a living.
 
2013-08-09 11:40:24 PM

EyeballKid: But, it's still cool to home-school your kids to keep them safe from those people and to re-establish the strong academic tradition of 2+2 = Jeebus, which the heathen public schools are scared to teach, right?


I'd homeschool my (hypothetical) kids to keep them away from the derp of school administrators and other petty tyrants.

/in my house, I'M the petty tyrant
 
2013-08-09 11:59:18 PM

Wooly Bully: Truther: Wooly Bully: Truther: No trolling, being sarcastic.

Hey, if you sound exactly like a troll and pick a login like "Truther", expect people to react accordingly.

You ignored the information in that Salon piece. The story of how those schools became so bad has absolutely nothing to do with a lack of "choice", and there is absolutely no evidence that introducing "choice" will make things any better.

When you label everything you disagree with "trolling"...

As other have pointed out, why doesnt he send his kids there and work to make those schools better?  As he TELLS EVERYONE ELSE THAT'S WHAT THEY SHOULD DO.

That's the joy of Fark Politics.  You are right, 100% of the time.

Anyone who disagrees is either a troll, dumb or an evil republican!!

Well that little rant certainly boosted your credibility.



Touché ...
 
2013-08-10 03:17:26 AM
As an educator in, researcher of, policy-maker for, and advocate of public education, I am because the system has deep flaws yet immeasurable value. Were I to have children, I would not send them to the schools I work with, but this is because I have the means and capacity to make the choice, and I work with schools who need my resources, time, and experience. Teachers deserve greater respect, greater pay, and greater autonomy, and we have to rid ourselves of these pay for performance notions in a field with such nebulous outcomes and invalid measures. Damon says this. He, and I, would never have to say this if this were the reality. Same with the value of public education. If we accepted the value of public education, placed our collective resources behind the system, made the drastic changes needed to improve the system, etc., wold never have to say this.

In summation, f*ck you Hannity. Guess I could say this any article which contains your name...
 
2013-08-10 04:34:53 AM
I can see being a public school advocate and choosing not to send your kids there.

talking about matt daemon increases viewership i guess.
 
2013-08-10 07:33:36 AM

tuna fingers: Weird boner happened at this users end.


Were you watching it from a prison shower?
 
2013-08-10 08:54:20 AM

ltr77: Actually, most of the people I have seen that are against the current attempts at privatization of school seem to be the ones most serious about actual reforms.


Really?  The ones I see just want us to throw more money at the existing system.  Generally they talk only about the teachers, and students are an afterthought.

They are the ones who time and time again ask us to stick with what will work.  Teacher led reform, less testing and more learning, and emulating the best school systems in the world.

And there are charter schools based on all of those things.

The idea of charter schools is absolutely ridiculous, and if you have seen the common core testing coming out of NYC, you would see that although nobody is doing particularly well, the miracle charters (like KIPP) seem to be doing the absolute worst.  This despite kicking out 10x as many students as the public school does.

That's not what NYC's own report says.
 
2013-08-10 09:56:18 AM

Without Fail: Actually, I believe Mr. Damon works for a living.


If there's one thing I've learned here on Fark it's that rich people didn't get rich from working and that they have enough and should give more than they do.
 
2013-08-10 12:04:19 PM
BMFPitt:


That's not what NYC's own report says.

I'll just leave this here.  http://www.politico.com/story/2013/08/new-york-fails-common-core-test s -95304.html
 
2013-08-10 12:24:22 PM

Debeo Summa Credo: Of course it does. If I'm being forced to chip in for pizza, I might as well grab a slice.


My argument: If you are chipping in for pizza, you should want it to be as good as possible.
Yours: If you are chipping for health insurance you should go play in traffic.
 
2013-08-10 12:24:42 PM
BMFPitt:
Really?  The ones I see just want us to throw more money at the existing system.  Generally they talk only about the teachers, and students are an afterthought.


AHH yes, I forgot.  In Conservative world, we can fix problems without funding.  Never mind that they have been trying things that way for 30 years now with no tangible benefits.  It is time to get back to progressive education, not anymore of this erroneous idiocy foisted upon us by the conservatives.  Look, if you want our schools to perform like Massachusetts then we need to fund them like Massachusetts.  If you want them to perform like Mississippi, then you fund them like Mississippi.  We can't continue to neglect our children and expect the future will get better without any additional resources.  If the problem is teacher quality, then we need to pay teachers more.  It is a Free market solution.  We want better teachers, then we need to attract better teachers.  We don't do that by beating up on all teachers and continue to pay them less than other college graduates.  Currently, the unemployment rate for qualified teachers is around 5%.  There is not a large replacement population out there.  http://money.usnews.com/careers/best-jobs/elementary-school-teacher
 
2013-08-10 12:54:00 PM

ltr77: BMFPitt:
Really?  The ones I see just want us to throw more money at the existing system.  Generally they talk only about the teachers, and students are an afterthought.


AHH yes, I forgot.  In Conservative world, we can fix problems without funding.  Never mind that they have been trying things that way for 30 years now with no tangible benefits.  It is time to get back to progressive education, not anymore of this erroneous idiocy foisted upon us by the conservatives.  Look, if you want our schools to perform like Massachusetts then we need to fund them like Massachusetts.  If you want them to perform like Mississippi, then you fund them like Mississippi.  We can't continue to neglect our children and expect the future will get better without any additional resources.  If the problem is teacher quality, then we need to pay teachers more.  It is a Free market solution.  We want better teachers, then we need to attract better teachers.  We don't do that by beating up on all teachers and continue to pay them less than other college graduates.  Currently, the unemployment rate for qualified teachers is around 5%.  There is not a large replacement population out there.  http://money.usnews.com/careers/best-jobs/elementary-school-teacher


I've been saying this for like ever. Pay teachers 100k and see how good they get.
 
2013-08-10 01:15:38 PM
Why the fark do people think they should get to pull their money out of the public school system to send their kids somewhere else?

The money you contribute to the public school system isn't to educate YOUR children. It's to maintain an educated populace.

I don't have kids, and I'm not very likely to have them in the future. I don't get (nor do I want) a "voucher" to put towards a motorcycle.

If you can't afford your contribution to public schools AND private school for your children, then you can't afford private school for your children. Just the same as if I can't afford my contribution to public schools and a motorcycle, then I can't afford a motorcycle.

Your contribution to public schools isn't a payment for services rendered personally to your family. It's a debt owed for the upkeep of society.
 
2013-08-10 02:22:57 PM

ltr77: AHH yes, I forgot. In Conservative world, we can fix problems without funding.


Not to mention demonizing them while slashing pay and benefits will certainly make the field more attractive to enter.
 
2013-08-10 07:41:46 PM
Applaud Matt Damon for NOT subjecting his children to the government day-prison indoctrination system.
sphotos-b-iad.xx.fbcdn.net
Granted he'd probably still suggest YOU send your kids to that government shiathole....
 
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