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(Washington Post)   This is the NSA's prize example of why it needs to collect US phone records -- a cab driver who for status reasons sent money to a tribal leader in Somalia who turned out to have terrorist sympathies   (washingtonpost.com) divider line 49
    More: Asinine, Somalia, NSA, United States, telephone tapping, master status, interdiction, Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act, prizes  
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3325 clicks; posted to Main » on 09 Aug 2013 at 8:02 AM (47 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



49 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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2013-08-09 08:06:42 AM
Can't post in this thread. NSA will track me.
Can't post in this thread. NSA will track me.
Can't post in this thread. NSA will track me.
 
2013-08-09 08:11:23 AM
What kind of status? Is "idiot" a status in Somalia?
 
2013-08-09 08:12:05 AM
So he was wounded and was granted asylum..BUT..he leave his wife and kids in the wonderland that is Somalia..WTF?

Not an immigration lawyer but why not use that money to, I don't know, bring your family out of that hell hole?
 
2013-08-09 08:12:26 AM
OsamaObamaSnowdenManningPutinYellowcakeAnthrax
 
2013-08-09 08:12:54 AM
Oh, but the DEA loves having access to all those sweet records - no need for search warrants or real police work to bust the schmucks peddling weed to their friends!
 
2013-08-09 08:13:14 AM
They've really got it going on if this is the best they can boast.  "We busted a guy sending money home. He's serving life now, and missiles killed the guy back home."
 
2013-08-09 08:15:27 AM
 
2013-08-09 08:15:54 AM

JohnCarter: Not an immigration lawyer but why not use that money to, I don't know, bring your family out of that hell hole?


Odds are, he was trying to. I'm not an expert, but I've seen news stories over the years that indicate that in order to get your wife/children out alive in some of the war-torn parts of Africa you have to have "status". In American English, you have to pay off someone to keep them safe in your absence and then probably pay them a little more so it doesn't turn into a hostage thing when you go to get them.

Since he was, according to him, talking to a police chief, I can see this being a "Bribe for my family" thing.
 
2013-08-09 08:17:13 AM
I don't know what you guys are biatching about. They always say this program is for our safety and I can't think of anything more the government could do to improve the safety of Americans than removing a cab driver from the streets.
 
2013-08-09 08:19:49 AM

generallyso: Meanwhile HSBC not only laundered money for terrorists and drug cartels AND got away with it but the Attorney General has declared that banks are too big to prosecute.


Yea, but Lady GaGa was naked in a video so I can't really think about that right now. Plus my bread is starting to get stale.
 
2013-08-09 08:21:07 AM
So a man paying what is either bribe or blackmail in another nation is legal now?
 
2013-08-09 08:33:48 AM
"Tribal Leader," is code for, "Everyone who lives here is not ready for the 20th century, and we're in the 21st"
 
2013-08-09 08:33:49 AM

skozlaw: generallyso: Meanwhile HSBC not only laundered money for terrorists and drug cartels AND got away with it but the Attorney General has declared that banks are too big to prosecute.

Yea, but Lady GaGa was naked in a video so I can't really think about that right now. Plus my bread is starting to get stale.


there will be another circus tomorrow, and probably more bread. AND the NFL season is about to start.

\methinks the fed.gov is just as excited about the NFL season starting as most 'mericans...
 
2013-08-09 08:40:29 AM

generallyso: Meanwhile HSBC not only laundered money for terrorists and drug cartels AND got away with it but the Attorney General has declared that banks are too big to prosecute.


I was going to go with "meanwhile, the US government is willingly giving millions of dollars to Pakistan, known to harbor terrorists".
 
2013-08-09 08:43:05 AM

TofuTheAlmighty: Oh, but the DEA loves having access to all those sweet records - no need for search warrants or real police work to bust the schmucks peddling weed to their friends!


I wanted to repeat this.  The problem with this much data being collected is that it will inevitably be used by people outside the scope of the original project.  DEA would be a good starting place if I had to make a bet, as would ICE: I would figure that illegal immigrants would tend to talk to other immigrants over their cell phones and some fast social mapping data could do wonders.
 
2013-08-09 08:46:59 AM

nickerj1: generallyso: Meanwhile HSBC not only laundered money for terrorists and drug cartels AND got away with it but the Attorney General has declared that banks are too big to prosecute.

I was going to go with "meanwhile, the US government is willingly giving millions of dollars to Pakistan, known to harbor terrorists".


Don't forget the FSA ("Free Syrian Army") which is basically Al'Kayduh... with arms from the botched deal in Libya...
 
2013-08-09 08:51:18 AM
NSA doesn't collect U.S. phone and email conversations.  One of our allies does and we just "trade" information.
 
2013-08-09 08:54:33 AM
Let me make sure I've got this right:  it takes eight brazillion dollars, millions of man-hours, god knows how many people, super-computers, and a half-million square-foot, high security processing center

to catch one guy in a cab with a few bucks.


Can you say False Economy?
 
2013-08-09 08:59:46 AM

AverageAmericanGuy: Can't post in this thread. NSA will track me.
Can't post in this thread. NSA will track me.
Can't post in this thread. NSA will track me.


Remain where you are, citizen.
 
2013-08-09 09:05:03 AM

BostonEMT: nickerj1: generallyso: Meanwhile HSBC not only laundered money for terrorists and drug cartels AND got away with it but the Attorney General has declared that banks are too big to prosecute.

I was going to go with "meanwhile, the US government is willingly giving millions of dollars to Pakistan, known to harbor terrorists".

Don't forget the FSA ("Free Syrian Army") which is basically Al'Kayduh... with arms from the botched deal in Libya...


Y'know, I understood the personal vendetta, but all of this noise is quite much ado over a box of used pinball machine parts...
 
2013-08-09 09:11:33 AM
Not even $10,000...and how much did the wiretapping cost?  10 million?  100 million?  1 billion?

Considering it's the US Gov probly billions.  It'd be cheaper to just send a cruise missile into the guy's straw hut.
 
2013-08-09 09:12:09 AM
Soon: A reality show where Ashton Kutcher pranks people into calling strange phone numbers and sending some money overseas then later finding their ass Gitmoed by the NASA.

Or you could just try a little harmless prank at work on your annoying, clueless colleague.before he does it to you.  More fun than catfishing.
 
2013-08-09 09:14:08 AM

Outrageous Muff: So a man paying what is either bribe or blackmail in another nation is legal now?


LoL Private/Corporate money pouring out of the US to support freedom fighters/terrorists/relatives/corporate profits is the American Way; or was until Nine-one-one - it's just a question of how far back you want to go.

Just a few obvious examples:

Ireland? Better believe it. Guns and money flowed like water.

Southeast Asia? Please.

South America/Caribbean? lol you'd be harder pressed to find a decade where we didn't meddle. And even if you don't want to go down the 'banana republic' road, I remember reading a report of the amount of money (crazy money) that flows back from people who humped their way into the country - legal and illegal - and are working like dogs to help their own; it may not seem like a big deal but it is a huge destabilizing factor.
US Corporations have privately fiddled/destabilized virtually everywhere in countries that were friends and/or enemies at the time  - many times expressly against the Federal gov't's wishes/orders.

Russian Revolution?  Quite a few of the liberal intelligentsia donated to fund the 'social experiment' (gah). Several corporations jumped in early to try and cut a piece of the pie.

The French Revolution? It almost toppled our government, there was strong private support for the French at a time our government couldn't afford to get involved.

Heck, you might as well go to Aaron Burr who did his best to pick a fight with the Spanish over Florida.
 
2013-08-09 09:15:26 AM

Arsten: JohnCarter: Not an immigration lawyer but why not use that money to, I don't know, bring your family out of that hell hole?

Odds are, he was trying to. I'm not an expert, but I've seen news stories over the years that indicate that in order to get your wife/children out alive in some of the war-torn parts of Africa you have to have "status". In American English, you have to pay off someone to keep them safe in your absence and then probably pay them a little more so it doesn't turn into a hostage thing when you go to get them.

Since he was, according to him, talking to a police chief, I can see this being a "Bribe for my family" thing.


That actually makes sense.
Go to any mosque in any city and chances are that you'll find immigrants who are having a hard time getting their families over.
Many of them are poor, some uneducated, so don't expect them to act in ways that would make sense to you.

Immigration quotas, not having yet received citizenship status are other issues usually come into play.
 
2013-08-09 09:33:00 AM

generallyso: Meanwhile HSBC not only laundered money for terrorists and drug cartels AND got away with it but the Attorney General has declared that banks are too big to prosecute.


Was the first thing I thought of as well.
 
2013-08-09 09:43:13 AM
I like how everyone has gone off to fantasy land because what is actually happening is so minor.  THE farkING DEA MAN!!!
 
2013-08-09 10:05:20 AM
dl.dropboxusercontent.com
 
2013-08-09 10:08:20 AM

BullBearMS: [dl.dropboxusercontent.com image 227x352]


Now that shiat is farking funny.
 
2013-08-09 10:08:40 AM
Interesting. I had a conversation with a client who works at a Baptist Seminary about a cab driver from Somolia. He asked how it was like to live there... The cab driver said that the country's north wants to split from the south ...and if that happened and the north started their own country, he'd move back because the north is a beautiful place with normal people...and if the south was destroyed, it would be a very good thing.

So I guess it's like Detroit in the south...
 
2013-08-09 10:20:27 AM
I wonder how many billions of dollars that cost us?
 
2013-08-09 10:23:30 AM

BullBearMS: [dl.dropboxusercontent.com image 227x352]


The interesting thing is, if we're going to do these semi-legal and immoral tracking actions, why doesn't the CIA do that to the Nigerian fraudsters?

/was a funny pic
 
2013-08-09 10:24:06 AM
 
2013-08-09 10:26:05 AM

Diagonal: Let me make sure I've got this right:  it takes eight brazillion dollars, millions of man-hours, god knows how many people, super-computers, and a half-million square-foot, high security processing center

to catch one guy in a cab with a few bucks.


Can you say False Economy?


Yes, but the guy was busted, and that's what matters [to them].

It's like the IRS bothering to audit (and punish) someone who was one cent off calculating their taxes.
 
2013-08-09 10:29:52 AM
If police tossed every home in the neighborhood, they would uncover some crimes. I wonder if the founding fathers thought of that.
 
2013-08-09 10:32:04 AM

JohnCarter: So he was wounded and was granted asylum..BUT..he leave his wife and kids in the wonderland that is Somalia..WTF?

Not an immigration lawyer but why not use that money to, I don't know, bring your family out of that hell hole?


That takes time.  Many years.  He'll need an income of IIRC around $22k/yr or assets of around $120k to apply for both of them.

TofuTheAlmighty: Oh, but the DEA loves having access to all those sweet records - no need for search warrants or real police work to bust the schmucks peddling weed to their friends!


Yeah, I'm sure that's the primary objective.

Arsten: Odds are, he was trying to. I'm not an expert, but I've seen news stories over the years that indicate that in order to get your wife/children out alive in some of the war-torn parts of Africa you have to have "status". In American English, you have to pay off someone to keep them safe in your absence and then probably pay them a little more so it doesn't turn into a hostage thing when you go to get them.

Since he was, according to him, talking to a police chief, I can see this being a "Bribe for my family" thing.


Interesting and you're probably right.
 
2013-08-09 10:43:45 AM

Oldiron_79: OsamaObamaSnowdenManningPutinYellowcakeAnthrax


If you say the magic woid the duck will come down !
timstvshowcase.com
 
2013-08-09 10:52:27 AM

W C Feels: If police tossed every home in the neighborhood, they would uncover some crimes. I wonder if the founding fathers thought of that.


Why yes. Yes they did.

The technology powering the National Security Agency's illegal domestic spying program would have amazed James Madison and the other framers of the Bill of Rights.

In a time when the steamboat was a technological marvel, it would have been unimaginable for the government to collect millions of innocent Americans' private communications and use computers to look for "suspicious patterns." But aside from the technology, the government's ongoing violation of fundamental civil liberties would have been very familiar to the men who gathered in 1791 to adopt the Bill of Rights.

The Founding Fathers battled an 18th century version of the wholesale surveillance that the government is accused of doing today - an expansive abuse of power by King George II and III that invaded the colonists' communications privacy.

Using "writs of assistance," the King authorized his agents to carry out wide-ranging searches of anyone, anywhere, and anytime regardless of whether they were suspected of a crime. These "hated writs" spurred colonists toward revolution and directly motivated James Madison's crafting of the Fourth Amendment.

We've now come full circle. The president has essentially updated this page from King George's playbook, engaging in dragnet surveillance of millions of Americans, regardless of whether they are suspected of a crime. The founders of this country took steps to limit precisely this sort of unfettered executive power.


The Fourth Amendment is a direct response to exactly the sort of bullshiat Obama is trying to pull today.
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

Constitutional scholar who intends to restore the rule of law, my ass

dl.dropboxusercontent.com
 
2013-08-09 11:07:48 AM
Then how much money from the US ends up on the other side of the Kyber Pass after the ISI (Pakistan's intelligence angency) filters it on.

\The Pakistan situation is lose/lose, and throwing money at it will eventually stop working.
 
2013-08-09 11:32:59 AM

generallyso: Meanwhile HSBC not only laundered money for terrorists and drug cartels AND got away with it but the Attorney General has declared that banks are too big to prosecute.


Pretty much this.  But some cabbie send $8,500 to Somalia and HE'S A TERRORIST!  LOCK HIM UP!
 
2013-08-09 11:54:16 AM
BullBearMS:

The Fourth Amendment is a direct response to exactly the sort of bullshiat Obama is trying to pull today.
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing
the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

From TFA:

It was a tip that put Moalin on the FBI's radar in 2003. But when investigators found no link to terrorism, they closed the case. Then, in 2007, the NSA came up with a number in Somalia that it believed was linked to al-Shabab. It ran the number against its database.
Inglis said officials had no idea whether the number had ties to any number in the United States. "In order to find the needle that matched up against that number, we needed the haystack," he said.
The NSA found that the San Diego number had had "indirect" contact with "an extremist outside the United States," FBI Deputy Director Sean Joyce told the Senate last week. The agency passed the number to the FBI, which used an administrative subpoena to identify it as Moalin's. Then, according to court records, in late 2007, the bureau obtained a wiretap order and over the course of a year listened to Moalin's conversations. About 2,000 calls were intercepted.
Over several months in 2008, prosecutors say, Moalin arranged for the transfer of several thousand dollars to al-Shabab. They say he sent the money to a prominent al-Shabab military leader named Aden Hashi Ayro and other associates.


So where, in all this, was Moalin's 4th Amendment rights violated?  Probable cause was supported by oath, warrants were issued, and where and what was to be searched was described.
 
2013-08-09 12:04:08 PM

Mouser: So where, in all this, was Moalin's 4th Amendment rights violated? Probable cause was supported by oath, warrants were issued, and where and what was to be searched was described.


So what you are saying is that the NSA is once again lying to Congress and the American people?

TFA: Under pressure from Congress, senior intelligence officials have offered it as their primary example of the unique value of a National Security Agency program that collects tens of millions of phone records from Americans.
They are holding this case up as an example of why blanket spying is necessary.

The same blanket spying that is undeniably unconstitutional.
 
2013-08-09 12:23:12 PM
Yet the Clintons, George Soros, Nancy Pelosi and whoever that freak female senator from California is .. they can stash money in offshore accounts like nobody's business.

Oh, yeah ... that Feinstein thing.
 
2013-08-09 03:52:17 PM
Where I live we have taxi drivers from Somalia, Kenya, Ethiopia, etc., so every time I travel (and tip said driver) I am funding 'terrorist' activities'?
 
2013-08-09 07:48:22 PM

Oldiron_79: OsamaObamaSnowdenManningPutinYellowcakeAnthrax


His name is my name tooooo
Whenever we go out
The people always show
OsamaObamaSnowdenManningPutinYellowcakeAnthrax!
La la la la la la la la
 
2013-08-09 08:06:02 PM
"The very word "secrecy" is repugnant in a free and open society; and we are as a people inherently and historically opposed to secret societies, to secret oaths and to secret proceedings. We decided long ago that the dangers of excessive and unwarranted concealment of pertinent facts far outweighed the dangers which are cited to justify it. Even today, there is little value in opposing the threat of a closed society by imitating its arbitrary restrictions. Even today, there is little value in insuring the survival of our nation if our traditions do not survive with it. And there is very grave danger that an announced need for increased security will be seized upon by those anxious to expand its meaning to the very limits of official censorship and concealment."

John F. Kennedy

Hope and Change? I'm beginning to think they both died the day he did.
 
2013-08-09 10:11:52 PM

Outrageous Muff: So a man paying what is either bribe or blackmail in another nation is legal now?


 Can be, depends what you call it.

In New Zealand when dealing with Maori it's called "koha" and yes it's mostly legal because you shouldn't use that word to describe anything but a customary gift of an object to compensate for the cost of your presence at an event (like taking wine to dinner at someone's house).  But frankly probably there's a lot of koha-ing going on that amounts to blackmail or bribery.  When I receive koha through my job I'm not allowed to keep it because it may appear to be bribery.  This can be problematic because it's also pretty offensive to turn down koha, as it harms the mana (prestige) of the giver.

In Japan gifts of cash are so culturally normal and expected they have special envelopes for it, and it doesn't appear to have the intention or function of bribery.  It's just what you do.
 
2013-08-10 11:37:26 AM

BullBearMS: Mouser: So where, in all this, was Moalin's 4th Amendment rights violated? Probable cause was supported by oath, warrants were issued, and where and what was to be searched was described.

So what you are saying is that the NSA is once again lying to Congress and the American people?

TFA: Under pressure from Congress, senior intelligence officials have offered it as their primary example of the unique value of a National Security Agency program that collects tens of millions of phone records from Americans.
They are holding this case up as an example of why blanket spying is necessary.

The same blanket spying that is undeniably unconstitutional.


"Undeniably"?  Okay, I deny it.  Prove that it is unconstitutional.
 
2013-08-10 12:12:30 PM

Mouser: BullBearMS: Mouser: So where, in all this, was Moalin's 4th Amendment rights violated? Probable cause was supported by oath, warrants were issued, and where and what was to be searched was described.

So what you are saying is that the NSA is once again lying to Congress and the American people?

TFA: Under pressure from Congress, senior intelligence officials have offered it as their primary example of the unique value of a National Security Agency program that collects tens of millions of phone records from Americans.
They are holding this case up as an example of why blanket spying is necessary.

The same blanket spying that is undeniably unconstitutional.

"Undeniably"?  Okay, I deny it.  Prove that it is unconstitutional.


The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

dl.dropboxusercontent.com
 
2013-08-10 07:17:22 PM

Quantum Apostrophe: What kind of status? Is "idiot" a status in Somalia?


If everyone is an idiot, you will always have the upper echelon of idiots.

Everyone, always is ranked somehow.
 
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