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(Miami Herald)   Maybe it's time we stop referring to tasers as 'non'-lethal   (miamiherald.com) divider line 176
    More: Scary, Mount Sinai Hospital, Miami Beach, Taser  
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6481 clicks; posted to Main » on 08 Aug 2013 at 8:39 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



176 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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2013-08-08 09:51:59 PM  

Zombie Butler:  When, in the line of duty, a police officer uses less-lethal force to "subdue" a person expressing himself on a wall (which human beings have been doing since we had walls.


He was subdued for fleeing arrest.
 
2013-08-08 09:52:27 PM  
I hate the punk died but if he wasn't being a punk he may not be dead. Defacing someone's property don't make you an artist, it makes you a punk.
 
2013-08-08 09:53:14 PM  

MFAWG: dr_blasto: They're referred to as "less lethal" not "non-lethal" just like clubs, beanbag shot and rubber bullets.

I've been assured in the Zimmerman threads that clubs, or flashlights that are marketed as clubs, are completely harmless.

So there's that.


I was also told on fark that both claw hammers (in a case where cops shot someone charging them with a hammer) and baseball bats (apparently worthless unless you can do a windup swing) should hardly be called weapons.

I'll wait for more info to surface on this one. Iirc it is always folks who would be unlikely to survive a physical encounter in the first place who die after being tased.
 
2013-08-08 09:53:47 PM  
You know, i would have felt some sympathy had I not read that he was involved in Graffiti. I have assholes graffiti my walls all the time and though obviously i don't believe capital punishment is the solution i certainly don't care of they get killed in the process if there was no intention to kill them.

Having said that, i disagree with state thugs carrying tasers. Horrible devices.
 
2013-08-08 09:55:11 PM  

vpb: Zombie Butler:

No, no he's right.  When, in the line of duty, a police officer uses less-lethal force to "subdue" a person expressing himself on a wall (which human beings have been doing since we had walls. In fact, it's odd that we insist on perfectly clean walls in this society.) and he/she accidentally murders the youth then the officer should loose his/her badge and face other consequences. Bad choices = bad outcomes amiright?

See what I mean?  A piece of shiat criminal has a heart attack and it's "murder".


"A piece of shiat criminal"?  While what he was doing was illegal, it was also mostly harmless.  Save the hyperbole.
 
2013-08-08 09:55:28 PM  

vpb: Zombie Butler:

No, no he's right.  When, in the line of duty, a police officer uses less-lethal force to "subdue" a person expressing himself on a wall (which human beings have been doing since we had walls. In fact, it's odd that we insist on perfectly clean walls in this society.) and he/she accidentally murders the youth then the officer should loose his/her badge and face other consequences. Bad choices = bad outcomes amiright?

See what I mean?  A piece of shiat criminal has a heart attack and it's "murder".


mur·der  (mûrn.
1. The unlawful killing of one human by another, especially with premeditated malice.
 
2013-08-08 09:55:37 PM  

shaddix: Kiwimann: Yeah, read the article.  Very sorry he died, but he was committing vandalism and resisting arrest.

That's not to say that he in any way deserved to die, but you can draw a line of causality from the choices he made to the end that he met.   If he hadn't been vandalizing private property, he would be alive today.  If he hadn't tried to run away from the police who caught him vandalizing private property, he would also be alive today.

Bad choices can occasionally produce bad outcomes.

You are a goddamned moron.


Nope he's pretty much right. Stupidity is it's own reward.
 
2013-08-08 09:57:51 PM  

Kiwimann: Zombie Butler:  When, in the line of duty, a police officer uses less-lethal force to "subdue" a person expressing himself on a wall (which human beings have been doing since we had walls.

He was subdued killed for fleeing arrest.




FIFM
 
2013-08-08 09:58:22 PM  

berylman: Tranquilizer darts and blowguns need to make a comeback. Can't be any worse.


Inaccurate doses of tranquilizer dart in lieu of tasers would thousands of times the taser-related death numbers. I hope you realize this and I just missed the joke.
 
2013-08-08 10:02:15 PM  
Tasers were never intended (except possibly by Taser, Inc.) to be "non-lethal". They've always properly been called less-than-lethal or other-than-lethal.

They were also never intended (except ditto) to be used as handy methods of enforcing compliance. They were originally meant to be used--as the "less-lethal" tag might imply--as an alternative to firing a gun. In other words, the Taser was meant to replace a bullet, so that the bad guy could be taken down and might not die in a situation where lethal force was the only other possible alternative. But clearly killing the suspect was still POSSIBLE when using a Taser, so it was not meant to be used except when the only other option was DEFINITELY killing the suspect.

Then it started being used instead of the PR-24, because it was perceived--by police and the public--as being less brutal, mostly because it didn't leave any visible marks; that was post-70's demonstrations, when the public was tired of seeing kids beaten into bloody pulp by blue-clad minions of Mayor Daly. Then along came the Taser, which SEEMED to offer a method of subduing noncompliant suspects without having to physically beat them, disregarding the fact that 50,000 volts of electricity was NEVER MEANT to be used that way.

Tasers were handed to cops basically as an alternative to batons and guns; lost in the translation was the idea that they shouldn't be using ANY of them unless they really really needed to. I know as well as anyone that it can be very difficult to restrain a stubborn, drunk or psycho suspect; that said, most of your suspects are not so drunk or resistant that merely going hands-on will not produce the desired result. But the public perception is that bruises = POLICE BRUTALITY while (so far) Tasers = no marks = not brutality. That's slowly changing, I hope.

It would be nice if all cops had the time and patience to politely talk even the most psycho drugged out killer into the back of a police car without ever having to touch him--that will never happen of course. In a more realistic vein, it would be better if a) Tasers were removed from all cops unless or until b) they can receive the correct training for when and how to use them: To wit, they're lethal weapons to be used only when a bullet would be used. And c) use of a Taser should be treated as use of a firearm for administrative purposes and any cop who uses one should be subject to the same post-incident investigations. And the public needs training too, that Tasers are not "non-lethal." Even if that means taking on Taser, Inc.
 
2013-08-08 10:02:26 PM  

shaddix: Kiwimann: Yeah, read the article.  Very sorry he died, but he was committing vandalism and resisting arrest.

That's not to say that he in any way deserved to die, but you can draw a line of causality from the choices he made to the end that he met.   If he hadn't been vandalizing private property, he would be alive today.  If he hadn't tried to run away from the police who caught him vandalizing private property, he would also be alive today.

Bad choices can occasionally produce bad outcomes.

You are a goddamned moron.


He may be, but he is also right.
 
2013-08-08 10:08:07 PM  

Jument: Personally I think cops are generally good, but I think there is a lack of accountability and a failure to punish those who abuse the public trust.


THIS!

THIS is true in all parts of the public and a lot of the private sector.
Bankers laundering drug money? TOO BIG to jail!
congressmen trading on inside information? PROFIT!
cities settle out of court for cop abuse of power? WIN!!

/sigh
 
2013-08-08 10:12:31 PM  

Gyrfalcon: Tasers were never intended (except possibly by Taser, Inc.) to be "non-lethal". They've always properly been called less-than-lethal or other-than-lethal.

They were also never intended (except ditto) to be used as handy methods of enforcing compliance. They were originally meant to be used--as the "less-lethal" tag might imply--as an alternative to firing a gun. In other words, the Taser was meant to replace a bullet, so that the bad guy could be taken down and might not die in a situation where lethal force was the only other possible alternative. But clearly killing the suspect was still POSSIBLE when using a Taser, so it was not meant to be used except when the only other option was DEFINITELY killing the suspect.

Then it started being used instead of the PR-24, because it was perceived--by police and the public--as being less brutal, mostly because it didn't leave any visible marks; that was post-70's demonstrations, when the public was tired of seeing kids beaten into bloody pulp by blue-clad minions of Mayor Daly. Then along came the Taser, which SEEMED to offer a method of subduing noncompliant suspects without having to physically beat them, disregarding the fact that 50,000 volts of electricity was NEVER MEANT to be used that way.

Tasers were handed to cops basically as an alternative to batons and guns; lost in the translation was the idea that they shouldn't be using ANY of them unless they really really needed to. I know as well as anyone that it can be very difficult to restrain a stubborn, drunk or psycho suspect; that said, most of your suspects are not so drunk or resistant that merely going hands-on will not produce the desired result. But the public perception is that bruises = POLICE BRUTALITY while (so far) Tasers = no marks = not brutality. That's slowly changing, I hope.

It would be nice if all cops had the time and patience to politely talk even the most psycho drugged out killer into the back of a police car without ever having to touch him--that will never happen of course. In a more realistic vein, it would be better if a) Tasers were removed from all cops unless or until b) they can receive the correct training for when and how to use them: To wit, they're lethal weapons to be used only when a bullet would be used. And c) use of a Taser should be treated as use of a firearm for administrative purposes and any cop who uses one should be subject to the same post-incident investigations. And the public needs training too, that Tasers are not "non-lethal." Even if that means taking on Taser, Inc.


Tasers are a worthless alternative to a gun. I would never trust them in a case where I was facing death or serious bodily harm, and I won't ask the people society pays to enforce laws to do so.

You are dead on wrt to perception though. Look at the swap from a tonfa-style club with actual control and defensive/reactive fighting value to the csb, good for nothing but first strike smashing. Guess which of the two the ignorant masses think is a less aggressicve weapon for cops?

I think cops overuse tasers, but limiting them to situations that a baton is justifies makes more sense to me than pretending it is a viable alternative to a gun. While there are taser related deaths, they aren't the extreme deadly weapon farkers (I will remind you it is the same farkers who think cops should be kung fu masters and recomend brilliant things like shooting people in the leg to disable them) make them out to be.

Afaik the majority of cops who carry one are tased themselves in the training. That is how it is by me anyways. Your locality may vary.
 
2013-08-08 10:14:15 PM  

capt.hollister: Read more here:  http://www.miamiherald.com/2013/08/07/3548779/graffiti-artist-dies-aft er-tasering.html#storylink=cpy"

I don't know how this line crept in there. Please disregard it. There is really no reason to link to the TFA.


The site voluntarily infected itself with malware called "Tynt" that does this.

Fark links to such sites even after being notified of the malware.

Luckily, it can be blocked by NoScript and other solutions.
 
2013-08-08 10:16:12 PM  
media.miamiherald.com


This picture screams, "I'm an artsy fartsy little high school biatch who's just found meth or as my friends call it tina and between committing acts of misdemeanor vandalism and acts of sodomy I don't make the best decisions in the world like running at groups of heavily armed cops while high and being placed under arrest."  Of course having a toxicology profile like Jim Morrison's won't deter any libertards from declaring the Taser killed him.
 
2013-08-08 10:18:26 PM  

OscarTamerz: [media.miamiherald.com image 480x640]


This picture screams, "I'm an artsy fartsy little high school biatch who's just found meth or as my friends call it tina and between committing acts of misdemeanor vandalism and acts of sodomy I don't make the best decisions in the world like running at groups of heavily armed cops while high and being placed under arrest."  Of course having a toxicology profile like Jim Morrison's won't deter any libertards from declaring the Taser killed him.


We can all tell what your impromptu caption screams.
 
2013-08-08 10:24:03 PM  

vpb: Zombie Butler:

No, no he's right.  When, in the line of duty, a police officer uses less-lethal force to "subdue" a person expressing himself on a wall (which human beings have been doing since we had walls. In fact, it's odd that we insist on perfectly clean walls in this society.) and he/she accidentally murders the youth then the officer should loose his/her badge and face other consequences. Bad choices = bad outcomes amiright?

See what I mean?  A piece of shiat criminal has a heart attack and it's "murder".


There's also the minor detail of the 50,000 volts that triggered his "heart attack."
That wasn't caused by cheeseburgers, in case you were curious.
 
2013-08-08 10:28:59 PM  
MooseUpNorth: I prefer "survivable" as a term.

I prefer ... damage tables, suitable for use in a RPG of your choosing.

// would tasers get a damage bonus if the target is standing in water?

// can you poison the probes of a taser?

// what constitutes non lethal / survivable / less than lethal ... when dealing with demi-humans? Do Drow hate pepperspray? Are smelly Orcs immune to teargas? Can you hit a dragon with a beam from a dazzler and make it fall out of the sky?
 
2013-08-08 10:29:54 PM  

Smackledorfer: MFAWG: dr_blasto: They're referred to as "less lethal" not "non-lethal" just like clubs, beanbag shot and rubber bullets.

I've been assured in the Zimmerman threads that clubs, or flashlights that are marketed as clubs, are completely harmless.

So there's that.

I was also told on fark that both claw hammers (in a case where cops shot someone charging them with a hammer) and baseball bats (apparently worthless unless you can do a windup swing) should hardly be called weapons.

I'll wait for more info to surface on this one. Iirc it is always folks who would be unlikely to survive a physical encounter in the first place who die after being tased.


Glad we can agree that a club is a dangerous weapon, and if someone follows me into an alley carrying one after 'legally following' me, I should prepare to stand my ground.

See how that works?
 
2013-08-08 10:34:17 PM  

MFAWG: Smackledorfer: MFAWG: dr_blasto: They're referred to as "less lethal" not "non-lethal" just like clubs, beanbag shot and rubber bullets.

I've been assured in the Zimmerman threads that clubs, or flashlights that are marketed as clubs, are completely harmless.

So there's that.

I was also told on fark that both claw hammers (in a case where cops shot someone charging them with a hammer) and baseball bats (apparently worthless unless you can do a windup swing) should hardly be called weapons.

I'll wait for more info to surface on this one. Iirc it is always folks who would be unlikely to survive a physical encounter in the first place who die after being tased.

Glad we can agree that a club is a dangerous weapon, and if someone follows me into an alley carrying one after 'legally following' me, I should prepare to stand my ground.

See how that works?


Still really stuck on zimmerman eh?
 
2013-08-08 10:45:02 PM  

Smackledorfer: MFAWG: Smackledorfer: MFAWG: dr_blasto: They're referred to as "less lethal" not "non-lethal" just like clubs, beanbag shot and rubber bullets.

I've been assured in the Zimmerman threads that clubs, or flashlights that are marketed as clubs, are completely harmless.

So there's that.

I was also told on fark that both claw hammers (in a case where cops shot someone charging them with a hammer) and baseball bats (apparently worthless unless you can do a windup swing) should hardly be called weapons.

I'll wait for more info to surface on this one. Iirc it is always folks who would be unlikely to survive a physical encounter in the first place who die after being tased.

Glad we can agree that a club is a dangerous weapon, and if someone follows me into an alley carrying one after 'legally following' me, I should prepare to stand my ground.

See how that works?

Still really stuck on zimmerman eh?


I'm seeing the same pattern here: a supposed 'Thug' ends up dead for no real good reason, and a certain, predictable portion of the population think it's OK, and not just OK, but a good thing overall.
 
2013-08-08 10:47:28 PM  

MFAWG: Smackledorfer: MFAWG: Smackledorfer: MFAWG: dr_blasto: They're referred to as "less lethal" not "non-lethal" just like clubs, beanbag shot and rubber bullets.

I've been assured in the Zimmerman threads that clubs, or flashlights that are marketed as clubs, are completely harmless.

So there's that.

I was also told on fark that both claw hammers (in a case where cops shot someone charging them with a hammer) and baseball bats (apparently worthless unless you can do a windup swing) should hardly be called weapons.

I'll wait for more info to surface on this one. Iirc it is always folks who would be unlikely to survive a physical encounter in the first place who die after being tased.

Glad we can agree that a club is a dangerous weapon, and if someone follows me into an alley carrying one after 'legally following' me, I should prepare to stand my ground.

See how that works?

Still really stuck on zimmerman eh?

I'm seeing the same pattern here: a supposed 'Thug' ends up dead for no real good reason, and a certain, predictable portion of the population think it's OK, and not just OK, but a good thing overall.


Completely different situation here, imo.
 
2013-08-08 10:51:13 PM  

Smackledorfer: MFAWG: Smackledorfer: MFAWG: Smackledorfer: MFAWG: dr_blasto: They're referred to as "less lethal" not "non-lethal" just like clubs, beanbag shot and rubber bullets.

I've been assured in the Zimmerman threads that clubs, or flashlights that are marketed as clubs, are completely harmless.

So there's that.

I was also told on fark that both claw hammers (in a case where cops shot someone charging them with a hammer) and baseball bats (apparently worthless unless you can do a windup swing) should hardly be called weapons.

I'll wait for more info to surface on this one. Iirc it is always folks who would be unlikely to survive a physical encounter in the first place who die after being tased.

Glad we can agree that a club is a dangerous weapon, and if someone follows me into an alley carrying one after 'legally following' me, I should prepare to stand my ground.

See how that works?

Still really stuck on zimmerman eh?

I'm seeing the same pattern here: a supposed 'Thug' ends up dead for no real good reason, and a certain, predictable portion of the population think it's OK, and not just OK, but a good thing overall.

Completely different situation here, imo.


True enough. It's an 'accident' that probably should have been avoided,
 
2013-08-08 10:52:41 PM  

OscarTamerz: [media.miamiherald.com image 480x640]


This picture screams, "I'm an artsy fartsy little high school biatch who's just found meth or as my friends call it tina and between committing acts of misdemeanor vandalism and acts of sodomy I don't make the best decisions in the world like running at groups of heavily armed cops while high and being placed under arrest."  Of course having a toxicology profile like Jim Morrison's won't deter any libertards from declaring the Taser killed him.


cf.chucklesnetwork.agj.co
 
2013-08-08 10:57:24 PM  

berylman: Tranquilizer darts and blowguns need to make a comeback. Can't be any worse.


I can see the PD shooting 80 darts, hitting everyone but the perp.
/weapons qualifications should be quarterly.
 
2013-08-08 11:04:20 PM  

Smackledorfer: Afaik the majority of cops who carry one are tased themselves in the training. That is how it is by me anyways. Your locality may vary.


In that case I vote for cops to carry chain saws.
 
2013-08-08 11:08:23 PM  

crab66: Less-than-lethal is the term I usually hear.


Pretty much nobody with any sense says that these weapons are non-lethal. Even smoke grenades and pepper spray can be lethal against someone with respiratory problems.


Taser markets and police policies all reference them as "less-lethal" as opposed to "less-than"
 
2013-08-08 11:12:25 PM  

Mambo Bananapatch: Taser doesn't fark around when it comes to suggestions that their device is anything but harmless. I wouldn't be surprised if one of them is drawing up a suit against subby and Drew as we speak.

http://www.thespec.com/news-story/2103450-taser-legal-team-takes-a-t ou gh-line-that-stuns-lawyers-and-ko-s-lawsuits/


Don't potentially lethally electrical discharge device me bro!
 
2013-08-08 11:13:08 PM  

Smackledorfer: MFAWG: Smackledorfer: MFAWG: Smackledorfer: MFAWG: dr_blasto: They're referred to as "less lethal" not "non-lethal" just like clubs, beanbag shot and rubber bullets.

I've been assured in the Zimmerman threads that clubs, or flashlights that are marketed as clubs, are completely harmless.

So there's that.

I was also told on fark that both claw hammers (in a case where cops shot someone charging them with a hammer) and baseball bats (apparently worthless unless you can do a windup swing) should hardly be called weapons.

I'll wait for more info to surface on this one. Iirc it is always folks who would be unlikely to survive a physical encounter in the first place who die after being tased.

Glad we can agree that a club is a dangerous weapon, and if someone follows me into an alley carrying one after 'legally following' me, I should prepare to stand my ground.

See how that works?

Still really stuck on zimmerman eh?

I'm seeing the same pattern here: a supposed 'Thug' ends up dead for no real good reason, and a certain, predictable portion of the population think it's OK, and not just OK, but a good thing overall.

Completely different situation here, imo.


Same response from the hoipolloi, though. Different segment of them, perhaps, but "Oh, he was breaking the law, he should have been doing something else and he wouldn't be dead, it's too bad he died, but still...."
 
gja
2013-08-08 11:18:06 PM  
And the taxes in Miami will go up to cover the cost of yet another wrongful death suit.

Awesome work, ignorant cops.
 
2013-08-08 11:19:25 PM  

Gyrfalcon: Smackledorfer: MFAWG: Smackledorfer: MFAWG: Smackledorfer: MFAWG: dr_blasto: They're referred to as "less lethal" not "non-lethal" just like clubs, beanbag shot and rubber bullets.

I've been assured in the Zimmerman threads that clubs, or flashlights that are marketed as clubs, are completely harmless.

So there's that.

I was also told on fark that both claw hammers (in a case where cops shot someone charging them with a hammer) and baseball bats (apparently worthless unless you can do a windup swing) should hardly be called weapons.

I'll wait for more info to surface on this one. Iirc it is always folks who would be unlikely to survive a physical encounter in the first place who die after being tased.

Glad we can agree that a club is a dangerous weapon, and if someone follows me into an alley carrying one after 'legally following' me, I should prepare to stand my ground.

See how that works?

Still really stuck on zimmerman eh?

I'm seeing the same pattern here: a supposed 'Thug' ends up dead for no real good reason, and a certain, predictable portion of the population think it's OK, and not just OK, but a good thing overall.

Completely different situation here, imo.

Same response from the hoipolloi, though. Different segment of them, perhaps, but "Oh, he was breaking the law, he should have been doing something else and he wouldn't be dead, it's too bad he died, but still...."


Wait until they find out he was a hopeless drug addict who probably smoked marijuana in the days before his death. Then it will become a public service these brave men did.
 
2013-08-08 11:21:44 PM  

AndreMA: capt.hollister: Read more here:  http://www.miamiherald.com/2013/08/07/3548779/graffiti-artist-dies-aft er-tasering.html#storylink=cpy"

I don't know how this line crept in there. Please disregard it. There is really no reason to link to the TFA.

The site voluntarily infected itself with malware called "Tynt" that does this.

Fark links to such sites even after being notified of the malware.

Luckily, it can be blocked by NoScript and other solutions.


Thanks for the useful info.
 
2013-08-08 11:27:40 PM  

gja: And the taxes in Miami will go up to cover the cost of yet another wrongful death suit.

Awesome work, ignorant cops. crazy vandal charging directly at police who are telling him to stand still.



It's the kid's fault 99%. If you really are an artist, act like one. Own the work. It's only a misdemeanor.
 
2013-08-08 11:28:39 PM  

Gyrfalcon: Smackledorfer: MFAWG: Smackledorfer: MFAWG: Smackledorfer: MFAWG: dr_blasto: They're referred to as "less lethal" not "non-lethal" just like clubs, beanbag shot and rubber bullets.

I've been assured in the Zimmerman threads that clubs, or flashlights that are marketed as clubs, are completely harmless.

So there's that.

I was also told on fark that both claw hammers (in a case where cops shot someone charging them with a hammer) and baseball bats (apparently worthless unless you can do a windup swing) should hardly be called weapons.

I'll wait for more info to surface on this one. Iirc it is always folks who would be unlikely to survive a physical encounter in the first place who die after being tased.

Glad we can agree that a club is a dangerous weapon, and if someone follows me into an alley carrying one after 'legally following' me, I should prepare to stand my ground.

See how that works?

Still really stuck on zimmerman eh?

I'm seeing the same pattern here: a supposed 'Thug' ends up dead for no real good reason, and a certain, predictable portion of the population think it's OK, and not just OK, but a good thing overall.

Completely different situation here, imo.

Same response from the hoipolloi, though. Different segment of them, perhaps, but "Oh, he was breaking the law, he should have been doing something else and he wouldn't be dead, it's too bad he died, but still...."


I'm not sure I'd agree that aggressive and violent force is the appropriate response to an asshole tagger. Even less-lethal is potentially lethal and I don't agree that the public's interest in arresting the dude is high enough to warrant tasing. They should have chased him off if he ran.
 
2013-08-08 11:32:54 PM  
I would be outraged if he was innocent.

1. He was vandalizing private property.
2. He resisted arrest.

No need to read further. Outcome was harsh, but avoidable by not being a punk. No loss to society IMO.
 
2013-08-08 11:47:39 PM  
I hope criminals start using tasers as defence against cops. That would really stir up the pot. If the cop lives, then great - it's a nonlethal weapon. If he dies, that's great too -- because current legal precedent says you didn't murder the guy. The tables aren't so pretty when they're turned, are they?

The whole idea of electrocuting somebody as a humane and safe way to disable someone is bogus. Executing someone via electric chair is cruel and unusual, but tasing someone is A-OK? The chance of death by electric chair isn't 100% either.
 
2013-08-08 11:50:34 PM  

BummerDuck: I would be outraged if he was innocent.

1. He was vandalizing private property.
2. He resisted arrest.

No need to read further. Outcome was harsh, but avoidable by not being a punk. No loss to society IMO.


I disagree. Every time the cops use violence society loses. Every time someone dies from cop violence, society loses even more. They should have let the punk go.
 
2013-08-08 11:56:19 PM  

tortilla burger: I hope criminals start using tasers as defence against cops. That would really stir up the pot. If the cop lives, then great - it's a nonlethal weapon. If he dies, that's great too -- because current legal precedent says you didn't murder the guy. The tables aren't so pretty when they're turned, are they?


They certainly could charge someone with assault, but it would be really interesting if they tried for attempted murder or murder.  I don't see how they could do it without setting precedent that would forever be used against them.
 
2013-08-09 12:03:53 AM  

tortilla burger: I hope criminals start using tasers as defence against cops. That would really stir up the pot. If the cop lives, then great - it's a nonlethal weapon. If he dies, that's great too -- because current legal precedent says you didn't murder the guy. The tables aren't so pretty when they're turned, are they?

The whole idea of electrocuting somebody as a humane and safe way to disable someone is bogus. Executing someone via electric chair is cruel and unusual, but tasing someone is A-OK? The chance of death by electric chair isn't 100% either.


Nice thought EXCEPT cops generally escalate above the level of the suspect to achieve compliance:
passively resist and they can go hands on
Actively resist and they can strike pressure points or perform take down
Get assaultive with your fists and they can swing a club at you.
Swing a club at them and they can shoot you.

So when you tase them with a potential followup of more damage while they are incapacitated, it will be pretty easy to justify a reaction you won't like. But good luck trying I guess?
 
gja
2013-08-09 12:04:58 AM  

doglover: gja: And the taxes in Miami will go up to cover the cost of yet another wrongful death suit.

Awesome work, ignorant cops. crazy vandal charging directly at police who are telling him to stand still.


It's the kid's fault 99%. If you really are an artist, act like one. Own the work. It's only a misdemeanor.


So......2 cops couldn't manage 1 little punk without resorting to a taser?

Pussies. FTR, go DIS an image of him. He's so skinny I could throw him like a javelin, and I'm not all that big.
 
2013-08-09 12:06:52 AM  

BummerDuck: I would be outraged if he was innocent.

1. He was vandalizing private property.
2. He resisted arrest.

No need to read further. Outcome was harsh, but avoidable by not being a punk. No loss to society IMO.


9/10. Concise, infuriatingly smug, highly inflammatory troll. Will get bites.

/would award a 10 but I never give 10s on the theory that there can always be a better troll
 
2013-08-09 12:07:03 AM  
didnt need to read the fa

for those posters who've opined about tagging - yes, he was

may I suggest you google "wynwood" - about 10 minutes from south beach that celebrates
just this sort of art - featured in movies and videos all over the world.

if this young man deserved to be tasered for this crime, in this area, then I guess everyone who may have ever jacklighted a deer aught to be hung. that is a crime, too.

did the cops set out to kill this person? no
was the use of a taser needed? no
did the community lose a creative, well-liked young person? yes

apparently ALL young men under the age of 25 are "punks" - unless they are on fark
 
2013-08-09 12:08:42 AM  

Kiwimann: Yeah, read the article.  Very sorry he died, but he was committing vandalism and resisting arrest.

That's not to say that he in any way deserved to die, but you can draw a line of causality from the choices he made to the end that he met.   If he hadn't been vandalizing private property, he would be alive today.  If he hadn't tried to run away from the police who caught him vandalizing private property, he would also be alive today.

Bad choices can occasionally produce bad outcomes.


THAT.

FTA: The chief said Hernández-Llach was confronted by officers about 5 a.m. as he was vandalizing private property, and he fled, leading officers on a foot chase. It ended at 71st and Harding when he was cornered by police and ran toward the officers, ignoring commands to stop, Martinez said.

I'd seen another article without that tidbit, and if he's running at the officers, who knows if he was going to whip out a weapon? HDI for being a stupid vandalizing POS.

Read more here: http://www.miamiherald.com/2013/08/07/3548779/graffiti-artist-dies-af t er-tasering.html#storylink=cpy
 
2013-08-09 12:09:22 AM  
...I didn't put in the last link. O_o
 
2013-08-09 12:14:17 AM  
As a shop owner I have one comment for a vandal dying by misadventure while committing a crime:

Good
 
2013-08-09 12:16:45 AM  
i really encourage farkers who think this was some aimless person to google

"wynwood miami images"

and extrapolate a bit given age, interest and area of the deceased

tagging is not a capital offense, even at its worst
 
2013-08-09 12:20:34 AM  

Greywar: As a shop owner I have one comment for a vandal dying by misadventure while committing a crime:

Good


Nice!  Death sentence for tagging.  You are obviously the better person.
 
2013-08-09 12:21:15 AM  
greywar:
As a shop owner I have one comment for a vandal dying by misadventure while committing a crime:
Good



As a taxpayer I have one comment for an another actionable death at the hands of the MBPD - "sh*t - how much will this cost me now?"

The business in question was a vacant franchise.....
 
2013-08-09 12:29:14 AM  
dr_blasto They should have let the punk go.They didn't have that choice. He was running at them and was in the 15 foot range of the Taser wrhen he was shot in the chest. Did you want them to wait until he started scratching their eyes out before they responded to the threat. In the good old days that sort of behavior would have been the occasion for a billy club shampoo and testicle massage and that is what the cops will revert to if the Tasers are taken away. There are fewer problems with Tasers than either batons or capsaicin sprays and that's why they're so widely used.
 
2013-08-09 12:38:18 AM  
Oscar Tamerz -

  I am the last person who wants cops to wait until its too late to respond to a lethal threat - and about the first one to understand they don't always know if a threat is lethal or not.

  However? The Miami Beach PD has a history of over-reacting. A smallish young person who was obviously tagging (as opposed to say, standing with a weapon and a hostage and screaming threats) would have been better off with a smack down - I'd guess his folks would appreciate the difference between "injured while arrested" and "dead"
 
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