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(Miami Herald)   Maybe it's time we stop referring to tasers as 'non'-lethal   (miamiherald.com) divider line 176
    More: Scary, Mount Sinai Hospital, Miami Beach, Taser  
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6465 clicks; posted to Main » on 08 Aug 2013 at 8:39 PM (48 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-08-08 06:55:34 PM
They're certainly much less lethal than a .40 S&W
 
2013-08-08 07:01:33 PM

Doktor_Zhivago: They're certainly much less lethal than a .40 S&W


Can't argue with that
 
2013-08-08 07:29:22 PM
Overzealous staffer, etc.
 
2013-08-08 07:44:41 PM
It's not referred to as "non-lethal" in the first place.
 
2013-08-08 07:49:32 PM
They're referred to as "less lethal" not "non-lethal" just like clubs, beanbag shot and rubber bullets.
 
2013-08-08 07:50:12 PM

Doktor_Zhivago: They're certainly much less lethal than a .40 S&W


Not this time.
 
2013-08-08 07:52:03 PM
At just 17, Israel Hernández-Llach was already an award-winning artist, on the threshold of acclaim in Miami Beach art circles. He was a sculptor, painter, writer and photographer whose craft was inspired by his home country of Colombia and his adopted city, Miami.

Read more here: http://www.miamiherald.com/2013/08/07/3548779/graffiti-artist-dies-af t er-tasering.html#storylink=cpy

Layin the bias on pretty thick there author. You'd think he was one week away from discovering a cure for cancer.

He was also a graffiti artist, known as "Reefa," who sprayed colorful splashes of paint on the city's abandoned buildings while playing cat-and-mouse with cops, who, like many property owners, consider graffiti taggers to be vandals, not artists.

Read more here: http://www.miamiherald.com/2013/08/07/3548779/graffiti-artist-dies-af t er-tasering.html#storylink=cpy
Ahh so he's a vandal.

It does suck that he died from a single taser shot. No one deserves to die for graffiti, but he shouldn't have run. I highly doubt the cops thought the taser would kill the kid.

But if the cops actually high-fived, that's a real asshole move.
 
2013-08-08 08:22:13 PM
said the officers exchanged high-fives and congratulations after Tasering him.

"He was on the ground and the cops were making jokes," said 19-year-old Thiago Souza.


Read more here: http://www.miamiherald.com/2013/08/07/3548779/graffiti-artist-dies-af t er-tasering.html#storylink=cpy
Why isnt it legal to kill cops again??
No seriously.
He was spraying paint. PANIC.

In the end, cops will always be lethal.
At least they arent using clubs to beat people to death anymore. or as much ....
 
2013-08-08 08:43:14 PM
They're referred to as 'non-lethal' by news media.

Other folks say 'less-than-lethal'.

// there's no such thing as non-lethal, given a large enough dose, or sufficient force or temperature.

// which is what makes the rock-it launcher in fallout so much fun
 
2013-08-08 08:44:45 PM
Taser's lawyers are scarier than tasers.
 
2013-08-08 08:45:46 PM

dr_blasto: They're referred to as "less lethal" not "non-lethal" just like clubs, beanbag shot and rubber bullets.


I've been assured in the Zimmerman threads that clubs, or flashlights that are marketed as clubs, are completely harmless.

So there's that.
 
2013-08-08 08:45:51 PM

lordargent: // which is what makes the rock-it launcher in fallout so much fun


For most things, yes. It still doesn't explain how a teddy bear can gib someone.

Now I'm wondering how fast would you have to fire a teddy bear to make it lethal.
 
2013-08-08 08:50:18 PM
Nobody deserves to die for petty vandalism. But stop romanticizing him. Taggers are like dogs pissing on fire hydrants except that taggers' mess is expensive to clean up
 
2013-08-08 08:50:42 PM
scottydoesntknow: For most things, yes. It still doesn't explain how a teddy bear can gib someone. Now I'm wondering how fast would you have to fire a teddy bear to make it lethal.

Are the eyes plastic, or bundles of yarn?

What range does it need to be lethal at?
 
2013-08-08 08:50:52 PM

MaudlinMutantMollusk: Doktor_Zhivago: They're certainly much less lethal than a .40 S&W

Can't argue with that


Yep, I'd rather be tased than shot or clubbed, any day of the week.

Personally I think cops are generally good, but I think there is a lack of accountability and a failure to punish those who abuse the public trust.
 
2013-08-08 08:53:10 PM
Taser doesn't fark around when it comes to suggestions that their device is anything but harmless. I wouldn't be surprised if one of them is drawing up a suit against subby and Drew as we speak.

http://www.thespec.com/news-story/2103450-taser-legal-team-takes-a-t ou gh-line-that-stuns-lawyers-and-ko-s-lawsuits/
 
2013-08-08 08:53:58 PM

lordargent: scottydoesntknow: For most things, yes. It still doesn't explain how a teddy bear can gib someone. Now I'm wondering how fast would you have to fire a teddy bear to make it lethal.

Are the eyes plastic, or bundles of yarn?

What range does it need to be lethal at?


We need to write into Mythbusters about this. They could afford multiple bears and a launcher (probably compressed air). Have they ever done a video game?
 
2013-08-08 08:54:46 PM

scottydoesntknow: Now I'm wondering how fast would you have to fire a teddy bear to make it lethal.


Depends if you properly soaked it in water and kept in the freezer overnight.
 
2013-08-08 08:56:08 PM
Less-than-lethal is the term I usually hear.


Pretty much nobody with any sense says that these weapons are non-lethal. Even smoke grenades and pepper spray can be lethal against someone with respiratory problems.
 
2013-08-08 08:57:14 PM
Oh yeah?  And maybe we should stop referring to your face as not beat to a pulp by my fists, subby.
 
2013-08-08 09:00:10 PM
c85c7a.medialib.glogster.com
/oblig
 
2013-08-08 09:02:47 PM
...or maybe it's time for artist^D^D^D^D^D^Dpunks to stop tagging buildings.

Death-by-taser is just another occupational hazard of being a graffiti artist.
 
2013-08-08 09:03:08 PM
Cops use Tasers as punishment.  They are not used just to subdue unruly people, they are used to make you pay for inconveniencing them.
 
2013-08-08 09:03:17 PM
Its called "less than lethal" for a reason, and often it isn't.
The cops lost their sense of perspective on this crime and the kid paid for it with his life.
 
2013-08-08 09:06:14 PM
Yeah, read the article.  Very sorry he died, but he was committing vandalism and resisting arrest.

That's not to say that he in any way deserved to die, but you can draw a line of causality from the choices he made to the end that he met.   If he hadn't been vandalizing private property, he would be alive today.  If he hadn't tried to run away from the police who caught him vandalizing private property, he would also be alive today.

Bad choices can occasionally produce bad outcomes.
 
2013-08-08 09:06:26 PM
Tranquilizer darts and blowguns need to make a comeback. Can't be any worse.
 
2013-08-08 09:13:22 PM

rev. dave: Cops use Tasers as punishment.  They are not used just to subdue unruly people, they are used to make you pay for inconveniencing them.


Maybe we should just take away the Tasers and issue whips?
Maybe I shouldn't suggest this where it might give some police department ideas.
 
2013-08-08 09:13:45 PM

berylman: Tranquilizer darts and blowguns need to make a comeback. Can't be any worse.


I am currently working on a prototype specifically for parents to use on their kids. Working name is ShaddupNGoToSleep.
 
2013-08-08 09:17:16 PM

Mambo Bananapatch: Taser doesn't fark around when it comes to suggestions that their device is anything but harmless. I wouldn't be surprised if one of them is drawing up a suit against subby and Drew as we speak.

http://www.thespec.com/news-story/2103450-taser-legal-team-takes-a-t ou gh-line-that-stuns-lawyers-and-ko-s-lawsuits/


WTF?!?
It has even filed a lawsuit demanding an Ohio coroner change her conclusion that a Taser was a contributing factor in the deaths of two men.

Is it even possible that a coroner can be ordered to change their report?
 
2013-08-08 09:17:40 PM
My daughter is a tougher than expected target.

/Cuz she's fast like a marsupial.
//Hopefully not obscure.
 
2013-08-08 09:18:10 PM

berylman: Tranquilizer darts and blowguns need to make a comeback. Can't be any worse.


f that, then you would have deaths from random OD because they had some grape fruit juice in their system or something...

bring back rubber bollas and net guns... or teach em to use a lasso.
 
2013-08-08 09:19:34 PM
I've never heard the term less than lethal. Usually I hear the term "Less lethal." One word missing but a huge difference.

On other notes.
1. High fiving is a major dick move. It also means you are paying atrention to your fellow officers rather than the guy you just tasered.
2. If the damn kid showed so much promise why did he need to go vandalize buildings.
3. Schools need to start teaching kids that they won't change the world with art, but that they can change it by working their asses off.
 
2013-08-08 09:21:51 PM
"He was also a graffiti artist, vandal known as "Reefa," who sprayed colorful splashes of paint on the city's abandoned buildings"

FTFTFA. You do not have the right to treat private property as your personal canvas, no matter how good others might think you are.

"He was on the ground and the cops were making jokes," said 19-year-old Thiago Souza.

I doubt very much that at this point they knew he was dying. For all we know, they may have been trying to catch this guy for some time and were justifiably happy to have finally caught him.

I don't think anyone should die for an act of vandalism, but I really don't think the cops were trying to kill him. Unfortunately, the dangers of Tasers are greatly downplayed by their makers and the authorities who deploy them. That being said, the cops on the beat are not doctors, if Tasers are presented to them as low-risk devices there is a good chance that they will use them.  I have a-fib, a Taser shot would probably kill me, but I don't expect a cop to know this so I intend to never provoke one into Tasering me.
Read more here: http://www.miamiherald.com/2013/08/07/3548779/graffiti-artist-dies-af t er-tasering.html#storylink=cpy
 
2013-08-08 09:22:19 PM
"Non-Lethal" as used in a description of a weapon means it is designed to stop a person rather than kill. They can still kill if used in an unorthodox way, overused, if the target has a medical condition that doesn't react well , or just plain bad luck.
 
2013-08-08 09:24:51 PM
Read more here:  http://www.miamiherald.com/2013/08/07/3548779/graffiti-artist-dies-aft er-tasering.html#storylink=cpy"

I don't know how this line crept in there. Please disregard it. There is really no reason to link to the TFA.
 
2013-08-08 09:24:56 PM

Mambo Bananapatch: Taser doesn't fark around when it comes to suggestions that their device is anything but harmless. I wouldn't be surprised if one of them is drawing up a suit against subby and Drew as we speak.

http://www.thespec.com/news-story/2103450-taser-legal-team-takes-a-t ou gh-line-that-stuns-lawyers-and-ko-s-lawsuits/


That would make all of us the most likely "jury of his peers", right?
 
2013-08-08 09:24:57 PM

dr_blasto: They're referred to as "less lethal" not "non-lethal" just like clubs, beanbag shot and rubber bullets.


I prefer "survivable" as a term.
 
2013-08-08 09:25:05 PM

Kiwimann: Yeah, read the article.  Very sorry he died, but he was committing vandalism and resisting arrest.

That's not to say that he in any way deserved to die, but you can draw a line of causality from the choices he made to the end that he met.   If he hadn't been vandalizing private property, he would be alive today.  If he hadn't tried to run away from the police who caught him vandalizing private property, he would also be alive today.

Bad choices can occasionally produce bad outcomes.


You are a goddamned moron.
 
2013-08-08 09:26:20 PM

rev. dave: Cops use Tasers as punishment.  They are not used just to subdue unruly people, they are used to make you pay for inconveniencing them.


Well, as Chris Rock says, "If the police have to come and get you, they're bringing an ass kicking with them."

/don't tag and don't run from the cops and maybe you won't get tazed
 
2013-08-08 09:29:49 PM

Prometheus_Unbound: Mambo Bananapatch: Taser doesn't fark around when it comes to suggestions that their device is anything but harmless. I wouldn't be surprised if one of them is drawing up a suit against subby and Drew as we speak.

http://www.thespec.com/news-story/2103450-taser-legal-team-takes-a-t ou gh-line-that-stuns-lawyers-and-ko-s-lawsuits/

WTF?!?
It has even filed a lawsuit demanding an Ohio coroner change her conclusion that a Taser was a contributing factor in the deaths of two men.

Is it even possible that a coroner can be ordered to change their report?


IANAL, but I'd be surprised if it isn't possible to force the coroner's office to spend so much time and money in court that she says the hell with it and changes the report.
 
2013-08-08 09:30:09 PM
He was also a graffiti artist, known as "Reefa," who sprayed colorful splashes of paint on the city's abandoned buildings while playing cat-and-mouse with cops

i.imgur.com
/and I don't even like cops
 
2013-08-08 09:33:41 PM
I was a lawn artist in high school. My RWD pickup truck a tool of my craft.
 
2013-08-08 09:34:14 PM

shaddix: Kiwimann: Yeah, read the article.  Very sorry he died, but he was committing vandalism and resisting arrest.

That's not to say that he in any way deserved to die, but you can draw a line of causality from the choices he made to the end that he met.   If he hadn't been vandalizing private property, he would be alive today.  If he hadn't tried to run away from the police who caught him vandalizing private property, he would also be alive today.

Bad choices can occasionally produce bad outcomes.

You are a goddamned moron.


Care to elaborate? Or are you just mouthing off?
 
2013-08-08 09:34:29 PM
Cops should use paint ball guns instead of phasers.
 
2013-08-08 09:40:06 PM
Meh, running from the cops, either via vehicle or on foot, never has a gentle ending.

/kid was probably not used to such intense running
//possible undiagnosed arrhythmia
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2013-08-08 09:42:41 PM
ElLoco:

You are a goddamned moron.

Care to elaborate? Or are you just mouthing off?


You are supposed to hate cops and love criminals because cops.

It's the Fark way.
 
2013-08-08 09:44:33 PM

shaddix: Kiwimann: Yeah, read the article.  Very sorry he died, but he was committing vandalism and resisting arrest.

That's not to say that he in any way deserved to die, but you can draw a line of causality from the choices he made to the end that he met.   If he hadn't been vandalizing private property, he would be alive today.  If he hadn't tried to run away from the police who caught him vandalizing private property, he would also be alive today.

Bad choices can occasionally produce bad outcomes.

You are a goddamned moron.


No, no he's right.  When, in the line of duty, a police officer uses less-lethal force to "subdue" a person expressing himself on a wall (which human beings have been doing since we had walls. In fact, it's odd that we insist on perfectly clean walls in this society.) and he/she accidentally murders the youth then the officer should loose his/her badge and face other consequences. Bad choices = bad outcomes amiright?

/Wait this is America, I forgot 3 week vacation for the officer, job. well. done.
 
2013-08-08 09:47:39 PM
Maybe if we stop referring to vandals as "artists".
 
2013-08-08 09:48:23 PM

Mambo Bananapatch: Prometheus_Unbound: Mambo Bananapatch: Taser doesn't fark around when it comes to suggestions that their device is anything but harmless. I wouldn't be surprised if one of them is drawing up a suit against subby and Drew as we speak.

http://www.thespec.com/news-story/2103450-taser-legal-team-takes-a-t ou gh-line-that-stuns-lawyers-and-ko-s-lawsuits/

WTF?!?
It has even filed a lawsuit demanding an Ohio coroner change her conclusion that a Taser was a contributing factor in the deaths of two men.

Is it even possible that a coroner can be ordered to change their report?

IANAL, but I'd be surprised if it isn't possible to force the coroner's office to spend so much time and money in court that she says the hell with it and changes the report.


That should be impossible if obvious malfeasance cannot be shown.
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2013-08-08 09:49:25 PM
Zombie Butler:

No, no he's right.  When, in the line of duty, a police officer uses less-lethal force to "subdue" a person expressing himself on a wall (which human beings have been doing since we had walls. In fact, it's odd that we insist on perfectly clean walls in this society.) and he/she accidentally murders the youth then the officer should loose his/her badge and face other consequences. Bad choices = bad outcomes amiright?

See what I mean?  A piece of shiat criminal has a heart attack and it's "murder".
 
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