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(Salon)   You thought it said what??: 5 ways fundamentalists misinterpret the Bible   (salon.com ) divider line 29
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6390 clicks; posted to Politics » on 08 Aug 2013 at 12:07 PM (2 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-08-08 12:26:48 PM  
4 votes:
It's almost as if fundamentalist don't actually care about what is in the bible but instead are using it as an appeal to authority so they can rationalize their own poorly thought out arguments and justify their feeling of supremacy.
2013-08-08 01:27:38 PM  
3 votes:

MugzyBrown: In fact, you don't need a government at all to do that.


What, exactly, is the Roman Catholic Church (or the Presbyterian, or the Episcopalian) but a government wrapped in a religious robe? Why is a tithe okay but a tax is theft?
2013-08-08 12:29:39 PM  
3 votes:
To be fair, this article is also cherry-picking and decontextualizing Bible verses, just like the Fundamentalists do. The reality is that the Bible is a large document, rife with contradictions, metaphor, poetry, mythology, law, and history. Any large work, of that kind of complexity, compiled over that long a history, re-interpreted and re-envisioned with each new generation, becomes a mirror. The only thing you see in the Bible is what you put there. The Bible  always supports the beliefs of the person using it.
2013-08-08 01:25:36 PM  
2 votes:

MugzyBrown: Giving to charity and having your money taken and spent by government bureaucracies are two different things. Christians aren't anti-charity, they're anti-government hand outs. Different things


After the Industrial Revolution the population got too big for retail-level charity. The evolution of the Corn Laws in the UK basically traces how badly parish-level giving was at feeding the needy populace.
2013-08-08 12:58:13 PM  
2 votes:
Book of Revelations is not only misunderstood by the fundies, but it is like erection-producing end-of-the-Earth porn. These guys get a hard-on that the world will burn or wage global nuclear war. Let that soak in for a minute. They get on their farking knees and pray, Come soon' to a gun-loving 'God' that hates poor people and apparently hates taking care of the sick and elderly. Can't make the shiat up.
2013-08-08 12:37:24 PM  
2 votes:
Does it have the prosperity gospel?

Because the prosperity gospel makes me angry.

Not only does Jesus EXPLICITLY STATE that it does not work that way, the ONLY people he gets angry at in the story/mythology of the Bible are, really, the Moneychangers in the temple.

Not the roman guards that came to take him to his execution (he HEALS one of them).

Not Judas.

Not *SATAN* in the desert. (He seems more..annoyed than angry?)

But the moneychangers in the temple? The folks using a holy site to enrich themselves and line their own coffers? Holy shiat, does he get ripsnortingly pissed.

And then the prosperity gospel comes along and just.. gah. ARGH. I'm not even sure why it makes me so angry, but it does. Maybe because it seems like such a blatant and bizarre perversion.
2013-08-08 12:24:17 PM  
2 votes:
Galatians 5:14For the whole law is fulfilled in one word: "You shall love your neighbor as yourself."

Romans 14:1-23 As for the one who is weak in faith, welcome him, but not to quarrel over opinions. One person believes he may eat anything, while the weak person eats only vegetables. Let not the one who eats despise the one who abstains, and let not the one who abstains pass judgment on the one who eats, for God has welcomed him. Who are you to pass judgment on the servant of another? It is before his own master that he stands or falls. And he will be upheld, for the Lord is able to make him stand. One person esteems one day as better than another, while another esteems all days alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind. ...

Hebrews 13:2 Do not neglect to show hospitality to strangers, for thereby some have entertained angels unawares.

Galatians 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is no male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.

Jeremiah 22:3 Thus says the Lord: Do justice and righteousness, and deliver from the hand of the oppressor him who has been robbed. And do no wrong or violence to the resident alien, the fatherless, and the widow, nor shed innocent blood in this place.

Leviticus 24:22You shall have the same rule for the sojourner and for the native, for I am the Lord your God."

Exodus 12:49There shall be one law for the native and for the stranger who sojourns among you."

Romans 13:8-10Owe no one anything, except to love each other, for the one who loves another has fulfilled the law. For the commandments, "You shall not commit adultery, You shall not murder, You shall not steal, You shall not covet," and any other commandment, are summed up in this word: "You shall love your neighbor as yourself." Love does no wrong to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

Malachi 3:5 "Then I will draw near to you for judgment. I will be a swift witness against the sorcerers, against the adulterers, against those who swear falsely, against those who oppress the hired worker in his wages, the widow and the fatherless, against those who thrust aside the sojourner, and do not fear me, says the Lord of hosts.

Leviticus 25:35-38"If your brother becomes poor and cannot maintain himself with you, you shall support him as though he were a stranger and a sojourner, and he shall live with you. Take no interest from him or profit, but fear your God, that your brother may live beside you. You shall not lend him your money at interest, nor give him your food for profit. I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt to give you the land of Canaan, and to be your God.

Leviticus 24:16 Whoever blasphemes the name of the Lord shall surely be put to death. All the congregation shall stone him. The sojourner as well as the native, when he blasphemes the Name, shall be put to death.

Exodus 23:12 "Six days you shall do your work, but on the seventh day you shall rest; that your ox and your donkey may have rest, and the son of your servant woman, and the alien, may be refreshed.

Exodus 20:10But the seventh day is a Sabbath to the Lord your God. On it you shall not do any work, you, or your son, or your daughter, your male servant, or your female servant, or your livestock, or the sojourner who is within your gates.

Ezekiel 22:29The people of the land have practiced extortion and committed robbery. They have oppressed the poor and needy, and have extorted from the sojourner without justice.

Leviticus 25:45You may also buy from among the strangers who sojourn with you and their clans that are with you, who have been born in your land, and they may be your property.

Ezekiel 16:49-50 Behold, this was the guilt of your sister Sodom: she and her daughters had pride, excess of food, and prosperous ease, but did not aid the poor and needy. They were haughty and did an abomination before me. So I removed them, when I saw it.

Isaiah 25:6On this mountain the Lord of hosts will make for all peoples a feast of rich food, a feast of well-aged wine, of rich food full of marrow, of aged wine well refined.

Genesis 19:1-38 The two angels came to Sodom in the evening, and Lot was sitting in the gate of Sodom. When Lot saw them, he rose to meet them and bowed himself with his face to the earth and said, "My lords, please turn aside to your servant's house and spend the night and wash your feet. Then you may rise up early and go on your way." They said, "No; we will spend the night in the town square." But he pressed them strongly; so they turned aside to him and entered his house. And he made them a feast and baked unleavened bread, and they ate. But before they lay down, the men of the city, the men of Sodom, both young and old, all the people to the last man, surrounded the house. And they called to Lot, "Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us, that we may know them." ...

1 Peter 2:9But you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for his own possession, that you may proclaim the excellencies of him who called you out of darkness into his marvelous light.

James 1:27 Religion that is pure and undefiled before God, the Father, is this: to visit orphans and widows in their affliction, and to keep oneself unstained from the world.

Romans 1:26-27 For this reason God gave them up to dishonorable passions. For their women exchanged natural relations for those that are contrary to nature; and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another, men committing shameless acts with men and receiving in themselves the due penalty for their error.

Romans 1:1-32Paul, a servant of Christ Jesus, called to be an apostle, set apart for the gospel of God, which he promised beforehand through his prophets in the holy Scriptures, concerning his Son, who was descended from David according to the flesh and was declared to be the Son of God in power according to the Spirit of holiness by his resurrection from the dead, Jesus Christ our Lord, through whom we have received grace and apostleship to bring about the obedience of faith for the sake of his name among all the nations, ...

Numbers 9:11 In the second month on the fourteenth day at twilight they shall keep it. They shall eat it with unleavened bread and bitter herbs.

Numbers 1:51When the tabernacle is to set out, the Levites shall take it down, and when the tabernacle is to be pitched, the Levites shall set it up. And if any outsider comes near, he shall be put to death.

Leviticus 25:44 As for your male and female slaves whom you may have: you may buy male and female slaves from among the nations that are around you.

Leviticus 22:19If it is to be accepted for you it shall be a male without blemish, of the bulls or the sheep or the goats.

Leviticus 22:18"Speak to Aaron and his sons and all the people of Israel and say to them, When any one of the house of Israel or of the sojourners in Israel presents a burnt offering as his offering, for any of their vows or freewill offerings that they offer to the Lord,

Leviticus 22:12If a priest's daughter marries a layman, she shall not eat of the contribution of the holy things.

Leviticus 22:10 "A lay person shall not eat of a holy thing; no foreign guest of the priest or hired servant shall eat of a holy thing,

Leviticus 18:1-30 And the Lord spoke to Moses, saying, "Speak to the people of Israel and say to them, I am the Lord your God. You shall not do as they do in the land of Egypt, where you lived, and you shall not do as they do in the land of Canaan, to which I am bringing you. You shall not walk in their statutes. You shall follow my rules and keep my statutes and walk in them. I am the Lord your God. You shall therefore keep my statutes and my rules; if a person does them, he shall live by them: I am the Lord. ...

Leviticus 17:10"If any one of the house of Israel or of the strangers who sojourn among them eats any blood, I will set my face against that person who eats blood and will cut him off from among his people.

Leviticus 17:8 "And you shall say to them, Any one of the house of Israel, or of the strangers who sojourn among them, who offers a burnt offering or sacrifice

Exodus 29:33 They shall eat those things with which atonement was made at their ordination and consecration, but an outsider shall not eat of them, because they are holy.

Exodus 12:48 If a stranger shall sojourn with you and would keep the Passover to the Lord, let all his males be circumcised. Then he may come near and keep it; he shall be as a native of the land. But no uncircumcised person shall eat of it.

James 1:14-15 But each person is tempted when he is lured and enticed by his own desire. Then desire when it has conceived gives birth to sin, and sin when it is fully grown brings forth death.

Hebrews 13:4 Let marriage be held in honor among all, and let the marriage bed be undefiled, for God will judge the sexually immoral and adulterous.

Philemon 1:2 And Apphia our sister and Archippus our fellow soldier, and the church in your house:

1 Thessalonians 4:3-5 For this is the will of God, your sanctification: that you abstain from sexual immorality; that each one of you know how to control his own body in holiness and honor, not in the passion of lust like the Gentiles who do not know God;

Galatians 5:19-21 Now the works of the flesh are evident: sexual immorality, impurity, sensuality, idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, fits of anger, rivalries, dissensions, divisions, envy, drunkenness, orgies, and things like these. I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

Romans 2:1-29 Therefore you have no excuse, O man, every one of you who judges. For in passing judgment on another you condemn yourself, because you, the judge, practice the very same things. We know that the judgment of God rightly falls on those who practice such things. Do you suppose, O man-you who judge those who practice such things and yet do them yourself-that you will escape the judgment of God? Or do you presume on the riches of his kindness and forbearance and patience, not knowing that God's kindness is meant to lead you to repentance? But because of your hard and impenitent heart you are storing up wrath for yourself on the day of wrath when God's righteous judgment will be revealed. ...

Matthew 27:7 So they took counsel and bought with them the potter's field as a burial place for strangers.

Daniel 1:8But Daniel resolved that he would not defile himself with the king's food, or with the wine that he drank. Therefore he asked the chief of the eunuchs to allow him not to defile himself.

Isaiah 5:11 Woe to those who rise early in the morning, that they may run after strong drink, who tarry late into the evening as wine inflames them!

Judges 19:1-30 In those days, when there was no king in Israel, a certain Levite was sojourning in the remote parts of the hill country of Ephraim, who took to himself a concubine from Bethlehem in Judah. And his concubine was unfaithful to him, and she went away from him to her father's house at Bethlehem in Judah, and was there some four months. Then her husband arose and went after her, to speak kindly to her and bring her back. He had with him his servant and a couple of donkeys. And she brought him into her father's house. And when the girl's father saw him, he came with joy to meet him. And his father-in-law, the girl's father, made him stay, and he remained with him three days. So they ate and drank and spent the night there. And on the fourth day they arose early in the morning, and he prepared to go, but the girl's father said to his son-in-law, "Strengthen your heart with a morsel of bread, and after that you may go." ...

Leviticus 22:25 Neither shall you offer as the bread of your God any such animals gotten from a foreigner. Since there is a blemish in them, because of their mutilation, they will not be accepted for you."

Exodus 12:43 And the Lord said to Moses and Aaron, "This is the statute of the Passover: no foreigner shall eat of it,


You aren't arguing against liberals, "those people" or "commies". You are arguing against God and Jesus. Did not Jesus warn you about being hypocrites and against showing hate?
2013-08-08 11:56:49 AM  
2 votes:
Let's be fair, Fundies do not misinterpret the Bible, that would imply the actually READ the book.
2013-08-08 08:32:47 PM  
1 vote:

cranked: MugzyBrown: Whereas the government forces me to give to the government, and then they get to choose what % of that is spent on charity, what is spent on war, what is spent on corruption, what is spent on waste.

That ignorant vision of government is a moral cop-out to justify greedy douchbaggery.

You pay the church nothing, but get nothing anyway.  Big deal.
You pay society nothing, but benefit from a safe and progressive society you aren't supporting.  Douchbaggery.


Does that dollar bill or coin in your pocket have your name or the name "United States of America" printed on it?

Mark 12:17

And Jesus answering said unto them, Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and to God the things that are God's. And they marvelled at him.


"Your" money according to Jesus, never belonged to you in the first place, it belongs to the government. Stop whining about the government that comprises of officials elected by the people having laws to take care of the people. What about those that don't belong to a Christian group? Should they go without because they aren't able to gain charity? Charity is not an efficient means of making sure people are fed.
2013-08-08 03:49:31 PM  
1 vote:

MugzyBrown: Whereas the government forces me to give to the government, and then they get to choose what % of that is spent on charity, what is spent on war, what is spent on corruption, what is spent on waste.


That ignorant vision of government is a moral cop-out to justify greedy douchbaggery.

You pay the church nothing, but get nothing anyway.  Big deal.
You pay society nothing, but benefit from a safe and progressive society you aren't supporting.  Douchbaggery.
2013-08-08 02:07:26 PM  
1 vote:
a sermon for the Republicans

"Here beginneth the Gospel according to the silver Marks. In those days the pope said to the Romans: When the Son of Man shall come to the throne of our majesty, first say to him: Friend, why comest thou? And if he continue to knock, giving you nothing, ye shall cast him into outer darkness. And it came to pass that a certain poor clerk came to the court of the lord pope and cried out, saying: Have mercy on me, ye gate-keepers of the pope, for the hand of poverty hath touched me. I am poor and hungry, I pray you to help my misery. Then were they wroth and said: Friend, thy poverty perish with thee; get thee behind me Satan, for thou knowest not the odor of money. Verily, verily, I say unto thee that thou shalt not enter into the joy of thy Lord until thou hast given thy last farthing.{625} "Then the poor man went away and sold his cloak and his coat and all that he had, and gave it to the cardinals and gate-keepers and chamberlains. But they said: What is this among so many? And they cast him beyond the gates, and he wept bitterly and could find nought to comfort him. Then came to the court a rich clerk, fat and broad and heavy, who in his wrath had slain a man. First he gave to the gate-keeper, then to the chamberlain, then to the cardinals; and they thought they were about to receive more. But the lord pope, hearing that the cardinals and servants had many gifts from the clerk, fell sick unto death. Then unto him the rich man sent an electuary of gold and silver, and straightway he was cured. Then the lord pope called unto him the cardinals and servants, and said unto them: Brethren, take heed that no one seduce you with empty words. I set you an example; even as I take, so shall ye take."
==========
 approx 1510, a Franciscan was complaining about the rampant Simone in the Church.
2013-08-08 02:04:55 PM  
1 vote:

grumpfuff: So hey then, all those other things that are required, like fasting on holy days and following the 10 Commandments, are actually just suggestions that have no actual relevance or authority?


This is the very definition of a cafeteria Christian.
2013-08-08 02:03:37 PM  
1 vote:

MugzyBrown: Not only does this discussion not matter because you're talking about vague, possible realities of the world 300+ years ago, but roads are not charity.


No, this discussion does not matter because you've staked out a claim that tithes are voluntary and taxes are not, yet there are centuries of church history that put paid to your claim. Just because you feel better handing over your money to a priest rather than a bureaucrat in order to make the trains run on time and the poor be fed, does not make it any different. So you go on believing that God loves you more because you pay for your spiritual salvation, and that the taxman is hiding just around your door with a gun to rape you of your hard-earned cash. Just do it elsewhere.
2013-08-08 02:01:03 PM  
1 vote:

MugzyBrown: grumpfuff: Just because one is (no longer) not enforceable, doesn't mean they're fundamentally different.

Actually it exactly means they are fundamentally different, because they are totally different.  They are in fact opposite they're so different.


I like how the difference between the two is the church allows you to be greedy, which is rather ironic. People like choice in this matter because it assumes you're a good person who would give anyway.
Considering which is doing a better job to tackle major social issues, church or government, I think we can safely assume that government does it better because people are by and large douchebags if given a choice. The fear of God doesn't sway people like it used to anymore because civilization's mostly grown past it, accept it.
2013-08-08 01:53:08 PM  
1 vote:

MugzyBrown: grumpfuff: Just because one is (no longer) not enforceable, doesn't mean they're fundamentally different.

Actually it exactly means they are fundamentally different, because they are totally different.  They are in fact opposite they're so different.


Never heard of the Dark Ages, huh?


theorellior: Oh, so you're one of those people. Back in the day, sure the Church would. If you didn't tithe, you were excommunicated and run out of town. Like it or not, someone's gotta do the big projects like roads and public buildings, and whether you call it a toll, a tithe or a tax, someone's going to take your money, and enforce that taking if you try to skip out.


Said it for me. Thanks for that. o/
2013-08-08 01:52:21 PM  
1 vote:

MugzyBrown: Actually it exactly means they are fundamentally different, because they are totally different. They are in fact opposite they're so different.


No they're not. You're just trying to get out of paying taxes because you're a dumbshiat libertarian.
2013-08-08 01:51:22 PM  
1 vote:

MugzyBrown: If I leave the church or do not tithe, can the priest put me in jail or sell my possessions?

If I do not pay my taxes, can the government put me in jail or sell my possessions?


Oh, so you're one of those people. Back in the day, sure the Church would. If you didn't tithe, you were excommunicated and run out of town. Like it or not, someone's gotta do the big projects like roads and public buildings, and whether you call it a toll, a tithe or a tax, someone's going to take your money, and enforce that taking if you try to skip out.
2013-08-08 01:31:56 PM  
1 vote:

theorellior: MugzyBrown: In fact, you don't need a government at all to do that.

What, exactly, is the Roman Catholic Church (or the Presbyterian, or the Episcopalian) but a government wrapped in a religious robe? Why is a required tithe okay but a tax is theft?


FTFY.
2013-08-08 01:23:05 PM  
1 vote:

gnosis301: Tyee: Either this is satire or the author knows very little about the vast majority of Christians and has placed the exceptions as the rule.

Fundamentalists are not the vast majority of Christians.


But they are the loudest and most visible segment.
2013-08-08 12:57:11 PM  
1 vote:

Ennuipoet: Let's be fair, Fundies do not misinterpret the Bible, that would imply the actually READ the book.


This too. I have met soooo many evangelical Christians and almost none of them have ever bothered to read the whole bible they claim to revere. Then they get all confused when I explain to them that I, an atheist, have. Every single one assumes I must not have read it because I don't believe. Then I quote a few bible verses.
2013-08-08 12:57:08 PM  
1 vote:

Ennuipoet: Let's be fair, Fundies do not misinterpret the Bible, that would imply the actually READ the book.


Why bother reading when you can just show up at church, hungover on Sunday morning and have someone tell you what to think?
2013-08-08 12:53:46 PM  
1 vote:

t3knomanser: To be fair, this article is also cherry-picking and decontextualizing Bible verses, just like the Fundamentalists do. The reality is that the Bible is a large document, rife with contradictions, metaphor, poetry, mythology, law, and history. Any large work, of that kind of complexity, compiled over that long a history, re-interpreted and re-envisioned with each new generation, becomes a mirror. The only thing you see in the Bible is what you put there. The Bible  always supports the beliefs of the person using it.


Sure, every believer has to pick and choose or they'll pretty much be Osama Bin Laden (that said, they'd have to do a lot less cherry picking if they would concentrate on the new testament and ditch the very different old testament). But there's nothing wrong with pointing out that these supposed followers of Christ are only cherry picking the parts which tell them to be an asshole, ignoring the parts which tell them not to be an asshole and blatantly misinterpreting or twisting even the parts which tell them to be good in order to justify asshole behavior.
2013-08-08 12:52:01 PM  
1 vote:
Matthew 10:7-8: And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand. Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils: freely ye have received, freely give.

I interpret this as meaning if you're going to preach, don't ask to get paid.
2013-08-08 12:50:46 PM  
1 vote:
Out of boredom, and not being a fundamentalist.. or really a Christian, let me retort one that's often parroted:

One of the most humorous aspects of modern-day, far-right Christianity is its reverence of capitalism. in the Gospel of Mark, Jesus tells the rich man, "go, sell all that you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven."

Giving to charity and having your money taken and spent by government bureaucracies are two different things.  Christians aren't anti-charity, they're anti-government hand outs.  Different things
2013-08-08 12:43:11 PM  
1 vote:

Karac: Fundamentalists expect me to believe that gays should be stoned because of one single sentence written 3000 years ago and translated about a dozen times - when the same book has trouble consistently counting past 9?


Strictly speaking, in US protestant theology:

1. Leviticus (where most of the 'stoning' bits are) is part of the fulfilled law, and non-Jewish Christians aren't required to obey it because it's part of the pact with the tribe of Israel specifically rather than the general covenant between Jesus and the Church.  Technically the same can be said of the ten commandments, save that they're mostly reaffirmed in the new testament.

2. Similarly, hatred of homosexual acts is not based on the Leviticus shiat strictly speaking, but New Testament statements made by Paul and the post-ressurection Jesus, in what us non-Christians tend to think of as the part of the bible written after dropping the brown acid, but for the Christians the command is legit.  They're actually told _not_ to harm those that sin, though, just that gay men at least are going to hell to burn forever.  Which isn't pleasant, but at least isn't a call to violence, so there's that.

If you keep the doctrine of fullfillment or whatever in mind and remember the influence of Calvinism and the dominionist movement on US protestant thought, a lot of the behavior of the churches makes a lot more sense.  Don't get me wrong, it's still stupid, but you'll find yourself less flabbergasted by the randomness of who they decided to target this week and be more of the "eh, that's dumb, but I guess I get it" type.
2013-08-08 12:27:49 PM  
1 vote:

skozlaw: You can't misinterpret something when it has been intentionally written and edited in a way that is open-ended enough that it can be used to mean anything.

That's why smart people don't use parables and fables as their only source of wisdom about the universe around them.


This.  Though, in fairness to (all three or so of) the Christians that are honest in their intentions and not intentionally disingenuous and hypocritical, that is for a fairly broad use of the word "intentional".  Most of the self-contradiction in the book used to justify whatever you feel like at the moment is as much a result of the basic statistics of compiling 1500 years of old wives' tales as it is clerics intentionally being dicks.

For every 'two heads are better than one' you have a 'too many cooks spoil the pot' just in English fake-wisdom from the last century, that only gets worse as you expand the reference pool without any way to categorize which old-woman advice to take seriously.  This is why books of random folk-lore and family/tribal rules from a hundred eras and situations piled together with essentially no context is  not a good guide for your moral decisions.
2013-08-08 12:12:53 PM  
1 vote:

Angry Drunk Bureaucrat: Ennuipoet: Let's be fair, Fundies do not misinterpret the Bible, that would imply the actually READ the book.

Read, yes.

Understand, no.


I'll go with selective reading. If you condemn homosexuals with a ham and cheese sandwich in you hand, you are doing it wrong.
2013-08-08 12:11:38 PM  
1 vote:
I'm still waiting for someone to find me a verse which outlaws gay marriage.
2013-08-08 12:10:26 PM  
1 vote:
You can't misinterpret something when it has been intentionally written and edited in a way that is open-ended enough that it can be used to mean anything.

That's why smart people don't use parables and fables as their only source of wisdom about the universe around them.
 
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