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(Talking Points Memo)   Tea Party: "Rep. Pittenger, do you stand with Senator Lee's bill to defund Obamacare?" Pittenger (R-NC): "No." Tea Party: "But....but....but....why?" Pittenger: Because it's stupid   (livewire.talkingpointsmemo.com) divider line 26
    More: Amusing, Robert Pittenger, obamacare, GOP, RNC, Bob Corker  
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4055 clicks; posted to Politics » on 07 Aug 2013 at 7:20 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



Voting Results (Smartest)
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

2013-08-07 07:16:22 AM
12 votes:
"Do you want the thoughtful answer?" Pittenger asked.
"I want yes or no," the man said.


Well, that about sums it up.
2013-08-07 08:35:03 AM
5 votes:

DO NOT WANT Poster Girl: By that definition there are many Conservatives right here in this thread, but some of us would rather call that measured approach "good governance" that flies without party affiliation.


It should. And bipartisanship didn't used to be such a dirty word, but the investiture into the Lunatic Fringe after so long has had a chilling effect on the national debate. It has turned my former party into a caricature, and even mustache twirling reactionaries who simply stand against whatever the other guy is for, because, DEMOCRACY.

The problem is that Rove and his ilk have framed the debate as ONLY "Conservative versus Un-American"
 as being the divide between Republican and Democrat. And damn him, and damn the party for going with this nonsense. When Reagan invested in the NeoCons, or rather, the NeoCons invested in him and brought him into office to help bring in more of their ilk into governance, it started a chain that had been planned for some time. The "Reagan Revolution" was essentially a coup within the party leadership, and it took a while to oust some folks, but eventually time ground away the Old Guard, and now the Young Turks are invested wholly in ideology, as opposed to workable policy, and the sad thing is, many can't see the difference. Yes, I'm looking at Rand Paul as a for instance...
2013-08-07 07:55:48 AM
5 votes:

DO NOT WANT Poster Girl: "Do you think Harry Reid is going to pass that in the Senate?" Pittenger asked.

"It doesn't matter," the man fired back.

"We need to show the American people we stand for conservative values," the woman shouted, drawing a smattering of applause.

The irony that never hits them is that the original Boston Tea Party participants were anything but conservative.


Good Conservatism is about pragmatism and a measured approach to governing. It requires thought, it looks to consequences both intended and unintended. It is about reducing systemic imbalances, it is not the radicalized notions that have taken the party by storm, and part of that is because the radicals get headlines, and they give a fair amount of cash for the outrage de jour. And that folks like to call their radicalism Conservatism because it makes them seem more reasonable. Calling this radicalism "Conservatism" is a cloak that abandons what the party stood for, and part of that was the Southern Strategy, part of that has to do with the naked Corporatism that has infested the party, and part of that was embracing the NeoCons who were the radical fringe, and making them the intellectual "base" to act as a foundation, and those folks have invested a great deal of time and effort to shift the Overton Window to embrace these radicals in the public eye. When the party began to focus on publishing as a means to shift public perception, with essentially publishing houses and think tanks to produce studies to support their ideas, as opposed to doing actual research, that was the start of shifting public perception. When that didn't produce the desired effect, multi-media was engaged, now with entire news organizations and websites dedicated to producing "narrative" as opposed to actual news. It is a strategy that has worked, in the sense that we have a lot of folks who now don't trust news sources specifically because they differ in ideology, the difficulty being, that reality is often massaged more than simply in how numbers are presented, and the sad fact is, "subjective reality" as a concept has been deeply abused by NeoCons who spent a LOT of time in Ivory Towers to come up with strategies to shift that perception, and base policy to serve those altered perceptions. It does nothing to actually service the very real problems, but that is part of the reason that the NeoCons were part of that radical fringe for so long, because Conservatives and the GOP realized that basing policy on biased studies didn't really serve much. Until they started to lose elections. Then suddenly, we had the Rove and the "Reagan Revolution" roll in folks began to lose touch with Conservatism, and figured that Voodoo Politics was OK, because it had to be a passing phase, and they might as well get their licks in while they could before things swung back. The difficulty being, by changing the perception in public of what was working and what wasn't, we've entered the murky country that the party rightly feared, and now we have two generations who have difficulty seeing beyond blind self interest, and haven't an idea what actual Conservatism is, because the media picture has been massaged and narrated to them for so long, and worse, they prefer to have it spoon fed to them, and are poorly equipped with critical thinking skills. We have pushed education and media saturation to the point where "news" and "facts" have to be put into quotes to differentiate them with actual news and facts, because they are wildly different than reality.

Basing ideology on dreams of Empire does work. For a while. And we're into the fever dream portion of the show wherein the authors of what amounts to a grasshopper mentality of politics is coming to maturity, and no one wants to open the window to let in any air, because that fog of dreams is comforting, even if it is quietly killing us...
2013-08-07 07:32:02 AM
3 votes:
"We need to show the American people we stand for conservative values"

Message received. Can you stop running the country into the ground now?
2013-08-07 09:17:51 AM
2 votes:

DO NOT WANT Poster Girl: "Do you think Harry Reid is going to pass that in the Senate?" Pittenger asked.

"It doesn't matter," the man fired back.

"We need to show the American people we stand for conservative values," the woman shouted, drawing a smattering of applause.

The irony that never hits them is that the original Boston Tea Party participants were anything but conservative.


The real irony is that the original Boston Tea Party occurred because Parliament got rid of a tax on tea which dropped the price of tea by like 90%.

Well, really, they got rid of an indirect tax and replaced it with a much smaller direct tax.  The tea (along with pretty much anything else being imported to the British Empire) originally had to be imported to London, where it was taxed heavily, and then passed on to the colonies with no additional taxes levied on it, and the cost of the import tax folded into the price.  Then the East India Tea Company was in the red and in danger of going bankrupt, so Parliament got did away with the requirement to import tea to London and allowed direct importing to the colonies.  However, it would still have to be taxed upon arrival, which would have to have been paid by the colonies, though at a much lower rate.

This did not sit well with people with warehouses full of tea purchased at the previous rate, or tea smugglers with warehouses full of tea smuggled in that they purchased elsewhere at less than the previous rate but still more than the new rate, or the people who were easily riled up at direct taxation without representation.

Which is why pretty much everyone involved with boarding the ship and throwing the tea overboard either was a tea trader or a tea smuggler, giving them a couple months til the next shipment to unload their stockpile of goods at a profit.
2013-08-07 08:20:45 AM
2 votes:

hubiestubert: Good Conservatism is about pragmatism and a measured approach to governing. It requires thought, it looks to consequences both intended and unintended. It is about reducing systemic imbalances,


I'm amused you think that, because that's the way I define my liberal views towards governance :) I think maybe this idea is neither "conservative" nor "liberal" but "responsible", and that whether we call ourselves conservative or liberal depends on how we go about solving these "systematic imbalances" and what kind of consequences we are willing to accept for our policies.
2013-08-07 08:01:01 AM
2 votes:
"Do you want the thoughtful answer?" Pittenger asked.
"I want yes or no," the man said.
Pittenger then said "no,"


This exchange perfectly embodies what's wrong with our society.  It's not like we have any more or less morons than anywhere else in the world.  The difference is that we celebrate ours.  That worthless teabagger should have been shamed and humiliated into silence after saying that for being such a thoughtless idiot.  His picture should be on the front page of the local paper next to a headline that says, "Look how farking dumb this guy is."  Instead, we treat it like absolutely acceptable behavior.  We even reward it to the point that they're no different than spoiled children who scream and yell and stamp their feet but can't even articulate what it is that they want or why they want it.

"We need to show the American people we stand for conservative values," the woman shouted, drawing a smattering of applause.

They stand for nothing but being difficult for the sake of being difficult.  No substance, no foresight.  Nothing.
2013-08-07 08:00:03 AM
2 votes:

Dog Welder: implemented by a Republican governor (the GOP's most recent presidential nominee, by the way) with great success in Massachusetts.


That's one of my favorite things about this. The GOP hated the individual mandate so much that they're willing to shut down the government to stop it, yet they nominated the only other human being in America who signed and promoted legislation requiring an individual mandate.
2013-08-07 07:57:09 AM
2 votes:

naughtyrev: "Do you want the thoughtful answer?" Pittenger asked.
"I want yes or no," the man said.
Well, that about sums it up.


Done in one. The Tea Party Rally of "We don't want thoughtfulness!" is the contemporary "Give us Barrabas!"
2013-08-07 07:46:55 AM
2 votes:
"We need to show the American people we stand for conservative values,"

And what exactly are "conservative values" nowadays?

ObamaCare was a plan conceived by the CONSERVATIVE Heritage Foundation with input by Newt Gingrich and implemented by a Republican governor (the GOP's most recent presidential nominee, by the way) with great success in Massachusetts.

If by "conservative values" you mean, "Fark all the poor because I got mine," then fark you, lady.  Shutting down the government because your Party of Stupid didn't get its way on one issue is a pretty farking stupid idea that will hurt a lot more than the sequester did.

We had elections 10 months ago.  Your side lost.  Get over it.

(Also, I'm going to simply guess that "conservative values" simply means, "If'n he's fer it, I'm agin' it.")
2013-08-07 07:24:11 AM
2 votes:

johnryan51: Hopefully sanity might be returning.


Only to find it no longer has a seat at the table.
2013-08-07 03:30:22 PM
1 votes:

Dog Welder: LrdPhoenix: Dog Welder: I'm really hoping the Republican Party can turn back towards sanity, and I was hoping the soul searching done after the 2012 elections would have led them there, but that was apparently wishful thinking on my part. It's highly likely I'll be removing my name from the GOP rolls after the 2014 election.

At this point, it's about time for all the people who have left them and what moderates are left behind there to leave and start a new party.

Call it the Grand New Party.

Could even do a little clever thing with relating the initials and the Gross National Product.

But why should we be the ones to leave?  They're the ones who suck.


Because it's been tainted beyond repair.  At best you can drive them back a bit, but they'll always be there, watching, waiting for their chance to seize power once more, and even then you'll still be stuck with the stigma.

Best to do it before they decide to leave and start their own party because you're not conservative enough, leaving you stuck with a damaged name and them with another opportunity to insidiously pass themselves off as something they're not.
2013-08-07 02:49:49 PM
1 votes:

LrdPhoenix: Dog Welder: I'm really hoping the Republican Party can turn back towards sanity, and I was hoping the soul searching done after the 2012 elections would have led them there, but that was apparently wishful thinking on my part. It's highly likely I'll be removing my name from the GOP rolls after the 2014 election.

At this point, it's about time for all the people who have left them and what moderates are left behind there to leave and start a new party.

Call it the Grand New Party.

Could even do a little clever thing with relating the initials and the Gross National Product.


But why should we be the ones to leave?  They're the ones who suck.
2013-08-07 01:40:15 PM
1 votes:

hubiestubert: DO NOT WANT Poster Girl: "Do you think Harry Reid is going to pass that in the Senate?" Pittenger asked.

"It doesn't matter," the man fired back.

"We need to show the American people we stand for conservative values," the woman shouted, drawing a smattering of applause.

The irony that never hits them is that the original Boston Tea Party participants were anything but conservative.

Good Conservatism is about pragmatism and a measured approach to governing. It requires thought, it looks to consequences both intended and unintended. It is about reducing systemic imbalances, it is not the radicalized notions that have taken the party by storm, and part of that is because the radicals get headlines, and they give a fair amount of cash for the outrage de jour. And that folks like to call their radicalism Conservatism because it makes them seem more reasonable. Calling this radicalism "Conservatism" is a cloak that abandons what the party stood for, and part of that was the Southern Strategy, part of that has to do with the naked Corporatism that has infested the party, and part of that was embracing the NeoCons who were the radical fringe, and making them the intellectual "base" to act as a foundation, and those folks have invested a great deal of time and effort to shift the Overton Window to embrace these radicals in the public eye. When the party began to focus on publishing as a means to shift public perception, with essentially publishing houses and think tanks to produce studies to support their ideas, as opposed to doing actual research, that was the start of shifting public perception. When that didn't produce the desired effect, multi-media was engaged, now with entire news organizations and websites dedicated to producing "narrative" as opposed to actual news. It is a strategy that has worked, in the sense that we have a lot of folks who now don't trust news sources specifically because they differ in ideology, the difficulty being, that reality is often ma ...


When are you going to run for something? Hubiestubert (I-AZ) looks rather decent in print, does it not?
2013-08-07 10:48:21 AM
1 votes:

Almost Everybody Poops: hubiestubert: DO NOT WANT Poster Girl: "Do you think Harry Reid is going to pass that in the Senate?" Pittenger asked.

"It doesn't matter," the man fired back.

"We need to show the American people we stand for conservative values," the woman shouted, drawing a smattering of applause.

The irony that never hits them is that the original Boston Tea Party participants were anything but conservative.

Good Conservatism is about pragmatism and a measured approach to governing. It requires thought, it looks to consequences both intended and unintended. It is about reducing systemic imbalances, it is not the radicalized notions that have taken the party by storm, and part of that is because the radicals get headlines, and they give a fair amount of cash for the outrage de jour. And that folks like to call their radicalism Conservatism because it makes them seem more reasonable. Calling this radicalism "Conservatism" is a cloak that abandons what the party stood for, and part of that was the Southern Strategy, part of that has to do with the naked Corporatism that has infested the party, and part of that was embracing the NeoCons who were the radical fringe, and making them the intellectual "base" to act as a foundation, and those folks have invested a great deal of time and effort to shift the Overton Window to embrace these radicals in the public eye. When the party began to focus on publishing as a means to shift public perception, with essentially publishing houses and think tanks to produce studies to support their ideas, as opposed to doing actual research, that was the start of shifting public perception. When that didn't produce the desired effect, multi-media was engaged, now with entire news organizations and websites dedicated to producing "narrative" as opposed to actual news. It is a strategy that has worked, in the sense that we have a lot of folks who now don't trust news sources specifically because they differ in ideology, the difficulty being, that reali ...


There used to be 3 thoughtful, intelligent Republican voters/party members on Fark whose opinions I respected (albeit while typically holding an opposing view): hubiestubert, Weaver95, and Ricardo Klement. The current iteration of the GOP has caused hubie to disassociate from them and their candidates, Weaver to switch affiliation to the Democrats, and Ricardo to forgo posting almost completely. I think the debate here suffers for it.
2013-08-07 10:36:33 AM
1 votes:

mainstreet62: Almost Everybody Poops: Mike_LowELL is on par with Pocket Ninja.

No. No he is not. Never make that comparison again, it's not even close.


I'd argue that if they are not on par, they are on the same tour and invited to the same tournaments.
2013-08-07 10:17:05 AM
1 votes:

Dracolich: Almost Everybody Poops: mephox: Mike_LowELL: Funny how the only people who support Taxbongocare are one bad illness away from bankruptcy.  Pretty much tells you what kind of poor, unsuccessful people we're dealing with here.

Not sure if Poe. Or troll.

Poe, Mike_LowELL is on par with Pocket Ninja.

Blasphemy


Oh no; not blasphemous at all.  Mike and Ninja are both awesome.
2013-08-07 09:57:55 AM
1 votes:

mephox: Mike_LowELL: Funny how the only people who support Taxbongocare are one bad illness away from bankruptcy.  Pretty much tells you what kind of poor, unsuccessful people we're dealing with here.

Not sure if Poe. Or troll.


Here's a hint.  his last name is L O L.
2013-08-07 09:32:33 AM
1 votes:

mephox: Mike_LowELL: Funny how the only people who support Taxbongocare are one bad illness away from bankruptcy.  Pretty much tells you what kind of poor, unsuccessful people we're dealing with here.

Not sure if Poe. Or troll.


LowELL is 110% Poe. But he brings up two points.

1) The idea an illness will make you bankrupt is completely American. I think it has something to do with our exceptionalness.
2) A bad illness can cost upwards to a $million, making supporters 99% of the population.
DGS [TotalFark]
2013-08-07 08:19:09 AM
1 votes:

ReverendJasen: mephox: Mike_LowELL: Funny how the only people who support Taxbongocare are one bad illness away from bankruptcy.  Pretty much tells you what kind of poor, unsuccessful people we're dealing with here.

Not sure if Poe. Or troll.

Considering every post he makes raises this question, we must start assuming the latter.
He's already used up all his benefit of Poe-doubt from me.  I'll give everybody a couple.


Mike_LowELL is one of the best around here.
2013-08-07 07:58:55 AM
1 votes:

hubiestubert: DO NOT WANT Poster Girl: "Do you think Harry Reid is going to pass that in the Senate?" Pittenger asked.

"It doesn't matter," the man fired back.

"We need to show the American people we stand for conservative values," the woman shouted, drawing a smattering of applause.

The irony that never hits them is that the original Boston Tea Party participants were anything but conservative.

Good Conservatism is about pragmatism and a measured approach to governing. It requires thought, it looks to consequences both intended and unintended. It is about reducing systemic imbalances, it is not the radicalized notions that have taken the party by storm, and part of that is because the radicals get headlines, and they give a fair amount of cash for the outrage de jour. And that folks like to call their radicalism Conservatism because it makes them seem more reasonable. Calling this radicalism "Conservatism" is a cloak that abandons what the party stood for, and part of that was the Southern Strategy, part of that has to do with the naked Corporatism that has infested the party, and part of that was embracing the NeoCons who were the radical fringe, and making them the intellectual "base" to act as a foundation, and those folks have invested a great deal of time and effort to shift the Overton Window to embrace these radicals in the public eye. When the party began to focus on publishing as a means to shift public perception, with essentially publishing houses and think tanks to produce studies to support their ideas, as opposed to doing actual research, that was the start of shifting public perception. When that didn't produce the desired effect, multi-media was engaged, now with entire news organizations and websites dedicated to producing "narrative" as opposed to actual news. It is a strategy that has worked, in the sense that we have a lot of folks who now don't trust news sources specifically because they differ in ideology, the difficulty being, that reality is often ma ...


I'm still surprised you voted Republican for so long, seeing as you have some of the most intelligent and well thought-out posts on Fark.
2013-08-07 07:51:37 AM
1 votes:

Almost Everybody Poops: mephox: Mike_LowELL: Funny how the only people who support Taxbongocare are one bad illness away from bankruptcy.  Pretty much tells you what kind of poor, unsuccessful people we're dealing with here.

Not sure if Poe. Or troll.

Poe, Mike_LowELL is on par with Pocket Ninja.


Blasphemy
2013-08-07 07:45:57 AM
1 votes:
"Do you want the thoughtful answer?" Pittenger asked.
"I want yes or no," the man said.


The Tea Party in a nutshell.
2013-08-07 07:45:38 AM
1 votes:

mephox: Mike_LowELL: Funny how the only people who support Taxbongocare are one bad illness away from bankruptcy.  Pretty much tells you what kind of poor, unsuccessful people we're dealing with here.

Not sure if Poe. Or troll.


Poe, Mike_LowELL is on par with Pocket Ninja.
2013-08-07 07:44:11 AM
1 votes:
Well, this Pittenger guy sounded like the smartest person in the room.
2013-08-07 07:30:09 AM
1 votes:
Pittenger represents Mecklenburg County (Charlotte) and the surrounding area; he was elected by Teabaggers expecting Representatives like him and Renee Ellmers were actually going to change the way the House worked (of course in their favor). Well, they got what they wanted; the House is definitely working like it has never worked in the past, thanks to Teabag Republicans. That the woman in TFA said he needs to "represent the conservative viewpoint" whether it is stupid or not is the problem with these people; they don't want to compromise, they don't want to cut deals, they want their way or else they want the whole system blown up.

/have way too many of those stupid people in my state
//they came out of the woodwork in 2010 and 2012.
 
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