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(Uproxx)   In which the 2154 technology portrayed in Elysium is investigated for feasibility   (uproxx.com) divider line 94
    More: Interesting, Elysium, Boston Dynamics, Blue Origin, Jeff Bezos  
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5396 clicks; posted to Geek » on 06 Aug 2013 at 1:04 PM (48 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-08-06 01:11:12 PM
So a science fiction film has to have technology that's feasible in order to be enjoyed? Hint: It's called science FICTION for a reason.
 
2013-08-06 01:13:13 PM
So the idiots that wrote the article don't know that you can generate gravity by spinning the satellite around it's axis?  And they don't think something would be possible because it's really expensive, event though the whole point of it's existence of for super rich people to spend money to be away from poor people?  Stupid article is stupid.

And Gunnm wants it's plot back.
 
2013-08-06 01:24:20 PM
Two comments in and the thread is already full retard....

offmymeds: So a science fiction film has to have technology that's feasible in order to be enjoyed?


Where does any such language appear in TFA?

Click Click D'oh: So the idiots that wrote the article don't know that you can generate gravity by spinning the satellite around it's axis?


First of all, that's not "generating" gravity, it's simulating it. Second of all, the article you accuse of not being aware of simulated gravity includes a damn link to an actual, real-world example of a device designed to simulate gravity. Finally, the article takes exception to the satellite as a whole: size, simulated atmosphere, weather, the whole nine yards.
But yea... the people who wrote the article are the ones who are "idiots".
 
2013-08-06 01:28:47 PM
The author is a dork.  Ringworld exists.
 
2013-08-06 01:30:16 PM

offmymeds: So a science fiction film has to have technology that's feasible in order to be enjoyed? Hint: It's called science FICTION for a reason.


Hmm, I though it was called SCIENCE fiction.
 
2013-08-06 01:30:49 PM

skozlaw: [screed]

cdn.ientry.com

To hell with the movie, I'm gonna eat my popcorn right here!
 
2013-08-06 01:31:28 PM
I just have a problem with the economics in most sci-fi. Why are they transporting ore in Alien? What forms the basis of trade in the Star Trek universe? Avatar almost makes sense until you realize the place was built, and you definitely don't want to meet the builders after breaking the thing.

For Elysium I offer the economics of a stadium. Project proposals will say the half billion dollar stadium will create tens of thousands of new jobs in the area, but hindsight tells us that's not just a lie but it would be more effective to hand out money to entrepreneurs with business proposals in the area. The Roman Coliseum was not the cause of wealth, but a sign of wealth. A Von Braun ring space station would not be a cause of wealthy society but a sign of one.
 
2013-08-06 01:33:01 PM
Do you think that by 2154 websites well have learned that making sideshows to generate artificial pagehits for revenue doesn't really work?
 
2013-08-06 01:38:32 PM

skozlaw: First of all, that's not "generating" gravity, it's simulating it.


Well holy hell.... excuuuuuuse me.

Oh wait, no.  Screw you.  That's just pedantic semantics.

The articles authors are idiots.  They right out acknowledge that the space station is "a big floating space wheel" but then suggest that there needs to be a complex method for generating gravity, while apparently not ever realizing the reason it's shaped like a wheel is so that gravity can be generated... simulated, what the hell ever you want to call it.

And OMFG, it has weather... How unpossible is that?

Article is full of idiot.
 
2013-08-06 01:39:44 PM

wildcardjack: Avatar almost makes sense until you realize the place was built, and you definitely don't want to meet the builders after breaking the thing.


Avatar?
 
2013-08-06 01:41:57 PM

wildcardjack: Why are they transporting ore in Alien?


Oil, they were transporting and refining oil on the Nostromo.  The McGuffin was that oil was still needed in order to make plastics. Of course that probably makes less sense than metal ore given that polymers can be made with the input of a bit of energy while various metallic elements cannot be created without C2 types of energy.
 
2013-08-06 01:47:53 PM

Click Click D'oh: And Gunnm wants it's plot back.


And another vowel or two.
 
2013-08-06 02:02:21 PM

offmymeds: So a science fiction film has to have technology that's feasible in order to be enjoyed? Hint: It's called science FICTION for a reason.


What about the science part? Otherwise it's just fantasy. I think that's what most sci-fi really is.

Click Click D'oh: So the idiots that wrote the article don't know that you can generate gravity by spinning the satellite around it's axis?  And they don't think something would be possible because it's really expensive, event though the whole point of it's existence of for super rich people to spend money to be away from poor people?  Stupid article is stupid.

And Gunnm wants it's plot back.


Christ, three times?
 
2013-08-06 02:10:39 PM

jtown: Click Click D'oh: And Gunnm wants it's plot back.

And another vowel or two.


That's Japanese for you (its a combination of Gun and their word for dream).  The official English name is Battle Angel Alita
 
2013-08-06 02:11:47 PM

Click Click D'oh: DERP


You are trying very hard to be very wrong about something that matters very little, so I'm just gonna go ahead and let you rage, bro.

hogans: To hell with the movie, I'm gonna eat my popcorn right here!


NO OUTSIDE SNACKS ALLOWED
 
2013-08-06 02:16:59 PM

skozlaw: Click Click D'oh: DERP

You are trying very hard to be very wrong about something that matters very little, so I'm just gonna go ahead and let you rage, bro.

hogans: To hell with the movie, I'm gonna eat my popcorn right here!

NO OUTSIDE SNACKS ALLOWED


No outside snacks... yeah.  Movie theater ushers will stop you if it's out in the open.  Usually they don't care.  They definitely won't search your purse or bags for outside food unless it's obvious.  (I know cause I was a movie theater usher for a good 4 years)
 
2013-08-06 02:18:03 PM

Quantum Apostrophe: What about the science part? Otherwise it's just fantasy. I think that's what most sci-fi really is.


Uh, yeah.  "Science" fiction is fantasy centered around technology, the future, other planets, supernatural, etc--any topic that is somewhat related to a field of science or technology.  Differentiated from classic fantasy in that the other usually centers around mythology, history, magic, and the like, without introducing new technologies or other-worldly creatures.  Obviously there's a lot of crossover, and no hard rules to govern which genre a particular story falls into, but yes, science fiction is simply fantasy with some kind of science angle to it (even stupid, unfeasible angles).
 
2013-08-06 02:20:00 PM

wildcardjack: I just have a problem with the economics in most sci-fi. Why are they transporting ore in Alien? What forms the basis of trade in the Star Trek universe? Avatar almost makes sense until you realize the place was built, and you definitely don't want to meet the builders after breaking the thing.

For Elysium I offer the economics of a stadium. Project proposals will say the half billion dollar stadium will create tens of thousands of new jobs in the area, but hindsight tells us that's not just a lie but it would be more effective to hand out money to entrepreneurs with business proposals in the area. The Roman Coliseum was not the cause of wealth, but a sign of wealth. A Von Braun ring space station would not be a cause of wealthy society but a sign of one.


Um, yeah.  That's the point of the movie.  It's the ultimate gated community.
 
2013-08-06 02:29:57 PM

Click Click D'oh: So the idiots that wrote the article don't know that you can generate gravity by spinning the satellite around it's axis?  And they don't think something would be possible because it's really expensive, event though the whole point of it's existence of for super rich people to spend money to be away from poor people?  Stupid article is stupid.


Think giant-scale 3d printer...like this one. Might be doable by 2145. Of course, to find out in person any one alive today would have to live a really long time.

blogdegaragem.com.br
 
2013-08-06 02:33:04 PM

skozlaw: You are trying very hard to be very wrong about something that matters very little, so I'm just gonna go ahead and let you rage, bro.


What exactly am I wrong about?  That you don't need, as the article implies, any "state of the art" complex machine to achieve the effect of gravity.  Instead you can just spin an object around a central axis and you will generate what is for all applicable purposes the same effect?

State of the art gravity simulation

So again, let's break down the articles argument why such a space station is completely unpossible:

"First of all, it's enormous; easily miles in length1. Just building something that big is a project on the order of trillions of dollars.2
It's got an atmosphere3, gravity, simulated weather4, the whole nine yards. That's a rather tall order, considering the current state of the art in, say, artificial gravity is essentially putting a carnival ride inside the International Space Station
5"

1. So what?  Now we can't build things because they are big?  Show a super carrier to someone 150 years ago and I bet then that they would have said it was too big to be real too.
2. Yeah it's expensive.  It's almost as if the thing was built by super rich people to get away from poor people  You know, the Hamptons in space.
3. It better have atmo or it would suck as a space station.  We like to pressurize things humans live in.  Not news
4. So frakking what.  Weather develops in any significantly huge structure.  Why should this one be different.
5.  Because it spins tards.  That's why it's shaped like a wheel.
 
2013-08-06 02:34:46 PM
I desperately need to understand the feasibility of technology in this terrible movie starred in by this terrible actor.
 
2013-08-06 02:37:02 PM

Stone Meadow: Think giant-scale 3d printer...like this one.


Now you're just trolling because you-know-who is in the thread.  He's probably upset enough that the article dismissed the cure for cancer as unfeasible.
 
2013-08-06 02:43:36 PM
That's a rather tall order, considering the current state of the art in, say, artificial gravity is essentially putting a carnival ride inside the International Space Station.\

That's how artificial gravity works, geniuses. At least in wheel-shaped space stations. They spin like a wheel, and centrifugal(Yeah, I used "centrifugal") force pulls you to the outside of the wheel. Go watch 2001 again, it's the reason that he looks like he's running inside a barrel, it's how we would walk around in a space station, we'd walk along the outer edge.

Sorry that you guys at Uproxx haven't read enough Sci Fi to figure this out...
 
2013-08-06 02:47:48 PM

ReverendJasen: Quantum Apostrophe: What about the science part? Otherwise it's just fantasy. I think that's what most sci-fi really is.

Uh, yeah.  "Science" fiction is fantasy centered around technology, the future, other planets, supernatural, etc--any topic that is somewhat related to a field of science or technology.  Differentiated from classic fantasy in that the other usually centers around mythology, history, magic, and the like, without introducing new technologies or other-worldly creatures.  Obviously there's a lot of crossover, and no hard rules to govern which genre a particular story falls into, but yes, science fiction is simply fantasy with some kind of science angle to it (even stupid, unfeasible angles).


I was told that the delineation was something like Fantasy being essentially allegorical, hence all the 'good vs evil' motifs and so on, and Science Fiction being the logical exploration of a particular logic or structure in society. So hard science fiction examines the implications of extending a particular, feasible technology, and social science fiction looks at how different social structures might work and so on. And then there's what I suppose we can call 'genre fiction' which shares tropes with Science Fiction and Fantasy, but is mainly a kind of soap opera using those tropes as a background for the traditional hero's journey. As I understand it, the distinction is mainly the message you want to get across rather than any particulars of the background, or narrative you might use to drive the plot.
 
2013-08-06 02:49:16 PM

Click Click D'oh: 5.  Because it spins tards.  That's why it's shaped like a wheel.


still not the same as true gravity.  Anything initially anchored to the wheel as it starts to spin or physically brought into its rotating frame and placed on the surface will feel a force analogous to gravity, but any freely floating particles such as, oh, air, would still essentially be in a free-fall weightless environment.  That becomes particularly important with point 4: Weather.  Since the freely floating molecules have nothing connecting them to the rotating frame of the ring and thus giving them a sense of "gravity", the entire atmosphere of the ring would be at a constant pressure.  With no pressure gradient, you can't have clouds since they have nothing to float on, and by extension you can't have rain.  The best they would be able to manage if they cranked the humidity up high enough would be a boring, uniform fog, giving the ring the vacation appeal of downtown London.
 
2013-08-06 02:54:57 PM

Click Click D'oh: What exactly am I wrong about?


Your insistence that the article's writers are somehow unaware of the concept of artificial gravity in space despite the fact that they directly linked to a piece about a technology that already exists for the purpose of creating artificial gravity in space.
 
2013-08-06 02:58:08 PM

StrangeQ: Stone Meadow: Think giant-scale 3d printer...like this one.

Now you're just trolling because you-know-who is in the thread.  He's probably upset enough that the article dismissed the cure for cancer as unfeasible.


Maybe, but if there is one technology I can guaran-farking-tee you they will have by 2145 it's radical life extension. And while they may not have "cancer scanners", curing cancer will be a trivial medical exercise.
 
2013-08-06 03:02:24 PM

Stone Meadow: StrangeQ: Stone Meadow: Think giant-scale 3d printer...like this one.

Now you're just trolling because you-know-who is in the thread.  He's probably upset enough that the article dismissed the cure for cancer as unfeasible.

Maybe, but if there is one technology I can guaran-farking-tee you they will have by 2145 it's radical life extension. And while they may not have "cancer scanners", curing cancer will be a trivial medical exercise.


And once we have self-sustaining orbital platforms, as well as live-extending treatments for cancer and other diseases, we'll be capable of interstellar voyages almost immediately.
 
2013-08-06 03:03:09 PM

Stone Meadow: Think giant-scale 3d printer...like this one. Might be doable by 2145. Of course, to find out in person any one alive today would have to live a really long time.


Look, it's the liar. "like this one". Love it. It's a CGI, chief. A scribble. A daydream. Never gonna happen.

Click Click D'oh: 1. So what? Now we can't build things because they are big? Show a super carrier to someone 150 years ago and I bet then that they would have said it was too big to be real too.


150 years ago they already had boats like the Great Eastern, so it wasn't something out of the blue. The only free floating structures in space we have are rickety tin cans with no 3D printed gravity. Try again.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SS_Great_Eastern

Click Click D'oh: 5. Because it spins tards. That's why it's shaped like a wheel.


Speaking of tards, any reason it needs to be a wheel, IN A VACUUM? It's round probably because then you only need to worry about one type of impossible construction.

It could be a square for varying levels of force at various radii.

Tard.
 
2013-08-06 03:05:31 PM

skozlaw: Your insistence that the article's writers are somehow unaware of the concept of artificial gravity in space despite the fact that they directly linked to a piece about a technology that already exists for the purpose of creating artificial gravity in space.


Oh good lord, really?  That's what you are on about?  So, you are just White Knighting the authors embarrassing oversight that they "wheel" could simply be spun.  And for the love of god, a centrifuge is not "technology that already exists for the purposes of creating artificial gravity in space."  A centrifuge is just spinning the wheel you moron.
 
2013-08-06 03:05:59 PM

enik: I desperately need to understand the feasibility of technology in this terrible movie starred in by this terrible actor.


The plotless art house film is three blocks down the queue.  Take a left and GTFO
 
2013-08-06 03:06:49 PM

StrangeQ: Click Click D'oh: 5.  Because it spins tards.  That's why it's shaped like a wheel.

still not the same as true gravity.  Anything initially anchored to the wheel as it starts to spin or physically brought into its rotating frame and placed on the surface will feel a force analogous to gravity, but any freely floating particles such as, oh, air, would still essentially be in a free-fall weightless environment.  That becomes particularly important with point 4: Weather.  Since the freely floating molecules have nothing connecting them to the rotating frame of the ring and thus giving them a sense of "gravity", the entire atmosphere of the ring would be at a constant pressure.  With no pressure gradient, you can't have clouds since they have nothing to float on, and by extension you can't have rain.  The best they would be able to manage if they cranked the humidity up high enough would be a boring, uniform fog, giving the ring the vacation appeal of downtown London.


centrifugal forces don't stop working in 2154
 
2013-08-06 03:14:35 PM

Quantum Apostrophe: The only free floating structures in space we have are rickety tin cans with no 3D printed gravity. Try again.


3D printed gravity?  Has all of Fark gone insane today?  Really, does no one else know that spinning an object around a central axis will create a force analogous to gravity on the end of the arc?

Oh, and SS Great Easter: 18,915 Tons.  USS Nimitz: 100,020 Tons.     Yeah, those are real close...  So, let me get this straight.  We only have ISS today, so there's no way we could build large space stations in the future because .... because why?

Quantum Apostrophe: It could be a square for varying levels of force at various radii.


If it's going to be inhabited by humans, you are going to have some very interesting effects on the people living in it if you shape it like a square.  People like constant gravity.   A square will mean that some points on the outer radius will be closer to the rotational hub than other, so there will be varying levels of "gravitational" force on the inhabitants as they move around the station.  Good for making with the puke.  Not so good for a living habitat.
 
2013-08-06 03:14:49 PM

ShadowKamui: StrangeQ: Click Click D'oh: 5.  Because it spins tards.  That's why it's shaped like a wheel.

still not the same as true gravity.  Anything initially anchored to the wheel as it starts to spin or physically brought into its rotating frame and placed on the surface will feel a force analogous to gravity, but any freely floating particles such as, oh, air, would still essentially be in a free-fall weightless environment.  That becomes particularly important with point 4: Weather.  Since the freely floating molecules have nothing connecting them to the rotating frame of the ring and thus giving them a sense of "gravity", the entire atmosphere of the ring would be at a constant pressure.  With no pressure gradient, you can't have clouds since they have nothing to float on, and by extension you can't have rain.  The best they would be able to manage if they cranked the humidity up high enough would be a boring, uniform fog, giving the ring the vacation appeal of downtown London.

centrifugal forces don't stop working in 2154


Really?  Then why don't you prove to me exactly how and why they work for a item placed on the inner surface of a rotating cylinder and then explain how they would be applicible to a freely floating gas contained within that cylinder.  And I would like to see your work, if you wouldn't mind.

/if you need help, I'll pull out my old notes from when I taught the recitation periods for first year med students taking their basic physics courses.
 
2013-08-06 03:20:14 PM

Click Click D'oh: 3D printed gravity?  Has all of Fark gone insane today?  Really, does no one else know that spinning an object around a central axis will create a force analogous to gravity on the end of the arc?


No, what we appear to have are a bunch of armchair physics professors with a cursory understanding of rotational motion.

Here's a hint:  rotating a ring does not "magically" produce a gravitational field for all points inside of the ring.  What it does produce is a gravity-like force for any object placed on the inner surface of the ring and bound by friction to rotate with the ring.
 
2013-08-06 03:21:45 PM
Everybody involved in this thread needs to take a time out in the corner.
 
2013-08-06 03:23:33 PM

Quantum Apostrophe: Stone Meadow: Think giant-scale 3d printer...like this one. Might be doable by 2145. Of course, to find out in person any one alive today would have to live a really long time.

Look, it's the liar. "like this one". Love it. It's a CGI, chief. A scribble. A daydream. Never gonna happen.


2.bp.blogspot.com
 
2013-08-06 03:27:06 PM
Regardless of gravity or a lack thereof, the enemy's gate is down.
 
2013-08-06 03:27:07 PM

Click Click D'oh: Yeah, those are real close... So, let me get this straight. We only have ISS today, so there's no way we could build large space stations in the future because .... because why?


Because it's fundamentally different. There is thousands of years of history and experience building boats, so your claim that someone 150 years ago wouldn't have thought it was possible to build a bigger boat is laughable. The 19th century INVENTED the notion of progress.

Click Click D'oh: 3D printed gravity?


Yah, it's a joke. 3D printing fans think 3D printing will be like Star Trek.

Click Click D'oh: a force analogous to gravity on the end of the arc?


A force, sure, but it's not really analogous to gravity.

Click Click D'oh: People like constant gravity.


People like planets too.

Click Click D'oh: Good for making with the puke.


Why?

StrangeQ: Here's a hint: rotating a ring does not "magically" produce a gravitational field for all points inside of the ring. What it does produce is a gravity-like force for any object placed on the inner surface of the ring and bound by friction to rotate with the ring.


Agreed... But you try drilling some sense into people who think if you just wish hard enough, science is anything you want it to be.
 
2013-08-06 03:28:58 PM

StrangeQ: StrangeQ: still not the same as true gravity. Anything initially anchored to the wheel as it starts to spin or physically brought into its rotating frame and placed on the surface will feel a force analogous to gravity, but any freely floating particles such as, oh, air, would still essentially be in a free-fall weightless environment.


Since I'm not a physics major, I'll have to give you that one... but I wonder then how Gas Centrifuges work.

I'm not so certain though that you won't see pressure differentials in the habitation tube.  The tube still needs to be pressurized and depressurized to maintain a 1 atmo environment, in addition to air purification & circulation efforts.  Long story short, there's going to be lots of air moving around that is bound to create pressure differentials.  Although unlikely to support clouds, it could certainly trigger localized weather effects.

But that all appears to be moot.  Going back and watching the preview, there are no shots inside the station that show weather.
 
2013-08-06 03:29:52 PM

Click Click D'oh: Although unlikely to support clouds, i


They shall be 3D printed.
 
2013-08-06 03:36:13 PM

offmymeds: So a science fiction film has to have technology that's feasible in order to be enjoyed? Hint: It's called science FICTION for a reason.


Isn't that the differentiating point tho?
If the technology is feasible but beyond our immediate reach then writing about it is science based fiction.
If you've got to reinvent the rules of physics to make the made up shiat work then you're off into fantasy.
...Not that there's anything wrong with that.

/Granted that highly advanced technology may be indistinguishable from magic.
/But in order for it to be sci-fi (least in my opinion) its got to have some relation with the science we know.
 
2013-08-06 03:37:39 PM

StrangeQ: Click Click D'oh: 3D printed gravity?  Has all of Fark gone insane today?  Really, does no one else know that spinning an object around a central axis will create a force analogous to gravity on the end of the arc?

No, what we appear to have are a bunch of armchair physics professors with a cursory understanding of rotational motion.

Here's a hint:  rotating a ring does not "magically" produce a gravitational field for all points inside of the ring.  What it does produce is a gravity-like force for any object placed on the inner surface of the ring and bound by friction to rotate with the ring.


Just because you failed fluids and/or just lazy and assume gases have zero friction; doesn't mean you get to call everyone else armchair profs
 
2013-08-06 03:39:15 PM

Quantum Apostrophe: Because it's fundamentally different. There is thousands of years of history and experience building boats, so your claim that someone 150 years ago wouldn't have thought it was possible to build a bigger boat is laughable. The 19th century INVENTED the notion of progress.


And we went from the Wright Flyer to Scram Jets in 100 years.  What's your point?  The original argument was "wow that's big, we can't build that"  Scale has never been a limiting factor on human ambition.  Now, if someone wants to say, that's too large for the construction materials to support it's mass and it would implode under it's own weight.... But, that's not the claim at hand.

Quantum Apostrophe: A force, sure, but it's not really analogous to gravity.


Getting dangerously close to being pedantic.  Would it make you feel better if I said, that swinging an object at the end of an arc would generate a force that would appear to pull objects towards a "down" direction as dictated by the arc of swing and for all appearance in a movie setting that force would function with the appearance of gravity.


Quantum Apostrophe: Why?


Are you asking why changes in the perceived pull of gravity makes people puke?  I don't know, ask a doctor.  It's probably got something to do with balance and the inner ear.
 
2013-08-06 03:45:21 PM

wildcardjack:  What forms the basis of trade in the Star Trek universe?



Gold-pressed latinum?  Isn't one of the points of the Star Trek universe that the UFP has done away with currency, though?
 
2013-08-06 03:45:42 PM
In which Fark headlines begin like chapters of 'Winnie the Pooh'.

/oh bother
 
2013-08-06 03:50:42 PM

Mr. Eugenides: wildcardjack: Why are they transporting ore in Alien?

Oil, they were transporting and refining oil on the Nostromo.  The McGuffin was that oil was still needed in order to make plastics. Of course that probably makes less sense than metal ore given that polymers can be made with the input of a bit of energy while various metallic elements cannot be created without C2 types of energy.


No, it was ore. I've seen the movie recently. Once you have the sort of fusion power plants to shove ships around like that then making polymers is just a matter of taking your carbon or silicon sources and shoving around components with heat. If you just need carbon it would be fairly easy to pump methane out of Neptune.
 
2013-08-06 03:53:36 PM

wildcardjack: Mr. Eugenides: wildcardjack: Why are they transporting ore in Alien?

Oil, they were transporting and refining oil on the Nostromo.  The McGuffin was that oil was still needed in order to make plastics. Of course that probably makes less sense than metal ore given that polymers can be made with the input of a bit of energy while various metallic elements cannot be created without C2 types of energy.

No, it was ore. I've seen the movie recently. Once you have the sort of fusion power plants to shove ships around like that then making polymers is just a matter of taking your carbon or silicon sources and shoving around components with heat. If you just need carbon it would be fairly easy to pump methane out of Neptune.


Oil in the novelization.
 
2013-08-06 03:55:17 PM

Quantum Apostrophe: ...if you just wish hard enough, science is anything you want it to be.


You mean like radical life extension? You know...all arm waving and vague promises.
 
2013-08-06 03:57:19 PM

Stone Meadow: Quantum Apostrophe: ...if you just wish hard enough, science is anything you want it to be.

You mean like radical life extension? You know...all arm waving and vague promises.


Don't forget immortal atoms...
 
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