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(ABC)   That town meeting shooting last night? Yeah, that was due to a property dispute between the owner and the town. I mean that was the best way to handle such things, right?   (abcnews.go.com) divider line 260
    More: Followup, town meetings  
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3905 clicks; posted to Main » on 06 Aug 2013 at 8:05 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



260 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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2013-08-06 07:53:22 AM  
I wonder how long it will be before somebody points out that if everybody in the town meeting had been armed, this wouldn't have happened.
 
2013-08-06 07:57:12 AM  

Pocket Ninja: I wonder how long it will be before somebody points out that if everybody in the town meeting had been armed, this wouldn't have happened.


Sure, they could have returned fire through the wall. That would have worked out, I'm sure.
 
2013-08-06 07:59:50 AM  

LasersHurt: Pocket Ninja: I wonder how long it will be before somebody points out that if everybody in the town meeting had been armed, this wouldn't have happened.

Sure, they could have returned fire through the wall. That would have worked out, I'm sure.


Well, obviously, they'd have had armed guards, too. The NRA has already established that having an armed guard in every school is the best way to stop shooters; there's no reason that shouldn't apply to town hall meetings, too. When you think about it, it's actually irresponsible that a town council wouldn't have armed guards to protect its meetings. WTF were they thinking?
 
2013-08-06 08:03:12 AM  
So subby, you're saying that the town commissioners shouldn't have given this man the opportunity to discuss a dispute with them? Just roll right over the little guy without recourse? Seems harsh to me.
 
2013-08-06 08:06:28 AM  

SmackLT: So subby, you're saying that the town commissioners shouldn't have given this man the opportunity to discuss a dispute with them? Just roll right over the little guy without recourse? Seems harsh to me.


or you can argue that the town was in the wrong to begin with and shouldn't have pushed a guy to this point, but no, let's blame subby
 
2013-08-06 08:07:10 AM  

Pocket Ninja: LasersHurt: Pocket Ninja: I wonder how long it will be before somebody points out that if everybody in the town meeting had been armed, this wouldn't have happened.

Sure, they could have returned fire through the wall. That would have worked out, I'm sure.

Well, obviously, they'd have had armed guards, too. The NRA has already established that having an armed guard in every school is the best way to stop shooters; there's no reason that shouldn't apply to town hall meetings, too. When you think about it, it's actually irresponsible that a town council wouldn't have armed guards to protect its meetings. WTF were they thinking?


Armed guards have the side benefit of arresting any uppity citizens that might disagree with you at the meeting, so they're a real win-win.  We can't have the plebes arguing with their betters.
 
2013-08-06 08:07:47 AM  

somedude210: SmackLT: So subby, you're saying that the town commissioners shouldn't have given this man the opportunity to discuss a dispute with them? Just roll right over the little guy without recourse? Seems harsh to me.

or you can argue that the town was in the wrong to begin with and shouldn't have pushed a guy to this point, but no, let's blame subby


Yes, the town MADE HIM shoot people. It's really their fault, dressing that way.
 
2013-08-06 08:08:15 AM  
inb4 killdozer.
 
2013-08-06 08:08:30 AM  
this guy was just testing the adage "you can't fight city hall."
 
2013-08-06 08:08:52 AM  

Marcus Aurelius: Pocket Ninja: LasersHurt: Pocket Ninja: I wonder how long it will be before somebody points out that if everybody in the town meeting had been armed, this wouldn't have happened.

Sure, they could have returned fire through the wall. That would have worked out, I'm sure.

Well, obviously, they'd have had armed guards, too. The NRA has already established that having an armed guard in every school is the best way to stop shooters; there's no reason that shouldn't apply to town hall meetings, too. When you think about it, it's actually irresponsible that a town council wouldn't have armed guards to protect its meetings. WTF were they thinking?

Armed guards have the side benefit of arresting any uppity citizens that might disagree with you at the meeting, so they're a real win-win.  We can't have the plebes arguing with their betters.


Arrest hell, just shoot 'em.  Don't bother tazing 'em bro.
 
2013-08-06 08:09:08 AM  
Isn't this one of them Second Amendment Solutions that I keep hearing about?
 
2013-08-06 08:09:16 AM  
Maybe the governor could have offered him some money for the property. It worked out pretty good in Vermont.
 
2013-08-06 08:11:10 AM  
Autoplay video makes baby FSM cry.
 
2013-08-06 08:11:32 AM  

styckx: inb4 killdozer.


But thats the proper way to deal with property disputes.
 
2013-08-06 08:12:03 AM  
I've been watching Doomsday Preppers a bunch lately and those people are without a doubt the scariest people around. Last night's rerun was some guy whose wife always looked on the verge of tears. When he asked her to go down into the basement bunker he had built under his business, she pleaded with him to let her stay outside. In the next shot, you could see her dashing away around a corner as the dad and other kids were going down into the basement.

Always with the guns and the strategically planted explosives with these people. It's not so much the fact that they are stocking up for what they see are hard times ahead of us. Rather, it's the unfettered distrust they have of their neighbors and society at large.

So this guy shoots up a town meeting. It makes a lot of sense. They've been persecuting him and forcing him to not take the actions he believes he needs to take to prepare himself. The town council has become the enemy. Enemy deserves no mercy. Sweep the leg, Johnny. Get them a body bag.
 
2013-08-06 08:12:15 AM  

LasersHurt: Yes, the town MADE HIM shoot people. It's really their fault, dressing that way.


*headdesk* fark it, I give up. No one's to blame, this is a completely unpreventable situation and it was bound to happen
 
GBB
2013-08-06 08:12:19 AM  

somedude210: SmackLT: So subby, you're saying that the town commissioners shouldn't have given this man the opportunity to discuss a dispute with them? Just roll right over the little guy without recourse? Seems harsh to me.

or you can argue that the town was in the wrong to begin with and shouldn't have pushed a guy to this point, but no, let's blame subby


Why have rules at all if people will resort to firearms because they don't like them?
 
2013-08-06 08:13:01 AM  
"This land is my land
This land is my land
This land is my land
This land is my land
This land is my land
This land is my land
This land was made for only me."

- Woody Guthrie
 
2013-08-06 08:13:05 AM  
On topic, crazy old dude was living in a shiathole he didn't have permits for.  Town had two choices when it was clear he was a crazy old coot without the means or ability to actually fix it himself if the place was that big a problem to the rest of the town, hold a barn raising and build him a new actually decent place to live and try to take care of him in his declining years, or try to force him off 'his' land.  One of those choices was moderately expensive and took effort, the other was crazy-old-coot-last-straw and ended up with a couple people dead and 5 more shot and wounded.
 
2013-08-06 08:13:09 AM  

somedude210: or you can argue that the town was in the wrong to begin with and shouldn't have pushed a guy to this point, but no, let's blame subby


Or you can shut the f*ck up
 
2013-08-06 08:13:15 AM  

Pocket Ninja: I wonder how long it will be before somebody points out that if everybody in the town meeting had been armed, this wouldn't have happened.


If by "arms" you mean hugs. He could have been stopped with the power of love if everyone had just come together and opened their hearts.
 
2013-08-06 08:13:39 AM  

somedude210: LasersHurt: Yes, the town MADE HIM shoot people. It's really their fault, dressing that way.

*headdesk* fark it, I give up. No one's to blame, this is a completely unpreventable situation and it was bound to happen


The first bits were sarcasm that you didn't get. Then you suggested they were to blame for being shot by an angry man. You should maybe get some coffee.
 
2013-08-06 08:13:43 AM  

Pocket Ninja: I wonder how long it will be before somebody points out that if everybody in the town meeting had been armed, this wouldn't have happened.


Actually, someone *DID* use a gun to stop him:

The shooter returned to his car and came back inside with another weapon when a local official at the meeting grabbed him, Reber said.
"(West End Open Space Commission executive director) Bernie Kozen was there tending to the man and he (the shooter) didn't see them," Reber said. "Bernie bearhugged him and took him down. He shot (the shooter) with his own gun."

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/08/06/2-killed-3-injured-in-shooting-a t -pennsylvania-municipal-building/#ixzz2bBrql6I4
 
2013-08-06 08:13:43 AM  

SmackLT: So subby, you're saying that the town commissioners shouldn't have given this man the opportunity to discuss a dispute with them? Just roll right over the little guy without recourse? Seems harsh to me.


I think you are a little short on the underlying facts like the article. Properties are not condemned overnight, there is a process.
 
2013-08-06 08:15:31 AM  

CarnySaur: "This land is my land
This land is my land
This land is my land
This land is my land
This land is my land
This land is my land
This land was made for only me."

- Woody Guthrie


"This land is my land
It's not your land
I've got a shotgun
You haven't got one
This land was made for me not you..."

- my property law professor
 
2013-08-06 08:15:34 AM  
Legal gun owner that was responsible yesterday. Isolated incident.
 
2013-08-06 08:16:03 AM  

WTF Indeed: Or you can shut the f*ck up


man, who pissed in your wheaties this morning?
 
2013-08-06 08:17:19 AM  

LasersHurt: The first bits were sarcasm that you didn't get. Then you suggested they were to blame for being shot by an angry man. You should maybe get some coffee.


I suggested that it was a case of unintended consequences. maybe my wording was off (as you said, I should probably get some coffee) but that was all I was pointing out
 
2013-08-06 08:18:06 AM  

Pocket Ninja: I wonder how long it will be before somebody points out that if everybody in the town meeting had been armed, this wouldn't have happened.


If everyone were to drape themselves in guns then shootings would be very rare what with all of that metal deflecting the bullets.  Do I have to think of everything?
 
2013-08-06 08:20:15 AM  

monoski: SmackLT: So subby, you're saying that the town commissioners shouldn't have given this man the opportunity to discuss a dispute with them? Just roll right over the little guy without recourse? Seems harsh to me.

I think you are a little short on the underlying facts like the article. Properties are not condemned overnight, there is a process.


That's true, but in all honesty, it's only a process you can effectively counter if you have the money to fight it, and people who do have the money to fight it generally don't end up getting their property condemned for cause (as opposed to eminent domain condemnations).

So, if you don't have the money to fix up your place to begin with, it's not very likely that you'll have the money to effectively fight a condemnation proceeding by the town.   Especially if you've pissed off the town board by being a cantankerous old cuss who just wants to be left alone.
 
GBB
2013-08-06 08:20:19 AM  

devine: Autoplay video makes baby FSM cry.


Baby FSM?   You mean Baby Meatsause
 
2013-08-06 08:21:36 AM  
Maybe the government shouldn't have tried to run a guy off his land through an expensive regulatory scheme?

Small town in NEPA so you can assume it is corrupt as hell.
 
2013-08-06 08:24:48 AM  
I'm sure he was a law obiding citizen (lol) until they pissed him off.
 
2013-08-06 08:26:18 AM  
So my concealed carry is about to drop. Should I spring for an Springfield Xdm or get a 1911? I'm in NY, so I'm limited to 10 round mags (so I need big bullets that pack a lot of wallop).
 
2013-08-06 08:27:03 AM  

Spade: Maybe the government shouldn't have tried to run a guy off his land through an expensive regulatory scheme?

Small town in NEPA so you can assume it is corrupt as hell.


According to previous reports, Newell got a building permit from the township to have a storage structure on the property, but then built a dwelling without first getting a zoning permit or certificate of occupancy from the township.

Over the years, authorities have responded to Newell's property as a result of neighbor complaints and on one occasion in 2009 found human fecal matter in buckets there, according to previous reports in the Pocono Record.

The township determined he was improperly disposing of sewage with no septic system or permit for one.


Yeah they totally deserved to die for crossing this asshole.
 
2013-08-06 08:27:19 AM  

Pocket Ninja: LasersHurt: Pocket Ninja: I wonder how long it will be before somebody points out that if everybody in the town meeting had been armed, this wouldn't have happened.

Sure, they could have returned fire through the wall. That would have worked out, I'm sure.

Well, obviously, they'd have had armed guards, too. The NRA has already established that having an armed guard in every school is the best way to stop shooters; there's no reason that shouldn't apply to town hall meetings, too. When you think about it, it's actually irresponsible that a town council wouldn't have armed guards to protect its meetings. WTF were they thinking?


Even in my small town we have police officers at all public hearings. It keeps people civil.

Not getting a kick out of these replies since I have to work a public hearing tonight with a controversial zoning request.
 
2013-08-06 08:27:49 AM  
If town government would stop being such biatches about trivial shiat, these things wouldn't have to happen.

/kidding
//kind of
///small town governments can be petty assholes about trivial common sense things.
 
2013-08-06 08:31:16 AM  

dittybopper: monoski: SmackLT: So subby, you're saying that the town commissioners shouldn't have given this man the opportunity to discuss a dispute with them? Just roll right over the little guy without recourse? Seems harsh to me.

I think you are a little short on the underlying facts like the article. Properties are not condemned overnight, there is a process.

That's true, but in all honesty, it's only a process you can effectively counter if you have the money to fight it, and people who do have the money to fight it generally don't end up getting their property condemned for cause (as opposed to eminent domain condemnations).

So, if you don't have the money to fix up your place to begin with, it's not very likely that you'll have the money to effectively fight a condemnation proceeding by the town.   Especially if you've pissed off the town board by being a cantankerous old cuss who just wants to be left alone.


Look up this dudes house. It is a total disaster. This does not appear to be eminent domain but one of public safety but I do appreciate where you are coming from, local govts have screwed people out of their home.
 
2013-08-06 08:31:53 AM  
He needed to get out of Monroe County -- the fastest-growing county in the state because it's becoming a bedroom community for New York City and Philadelphia -- and get up to the "Big T" part of the state where pooping in a bucket makes you "uppity and highfalutin'"
 
2013-08-06 08:41:25 AM  
Council can sit behind bullet proof glass and let pissed off citizens shoot at them all day to let off steam.
 
2013-08-06 08:44:56 AM  

HotWingConspiracy: According to previous reports, Newell got a building permit from the township to have a storage structure on the property, but then built a dwelling without first getting a zoning permit or certificate of occupancy from the township.

Over the years, authorities have responded to Newell's property as a result of neighbor complaints and on one occasion in 2009 found human fecal matter in buckets there, according to previous reports in the Pocono Record.

The township determined he was improperly disposing of sewage with no septic system or permit for one.

Yeah they totally deserved to die for crossing this asshole.


And it went on for SEVENTEEN YEARS. I love that half or more of the people in this thread are actually defending this crazy fark out of sheer knee jerk reaction.
 
2013-08-06 08:49:47 AM  
2nd amendment solutions are the best solutions, and the sign of a polite society.
 
2013-08-06 08:50:49 AM  
And he voted for Obama too.

Thanks, Obama!
 
2013-08-06 08:51:53 AM  

Pocket Ninja: I wonder how long it will be before somebody points out that if everybody in the town meeting had been armed, this wouldn't have happened.


As long as they didn't have tampons. Those things are dangerous.
 
2013-08-06 08:51:57 AM  

LowbrowDeluxe: On topic, crazy old dude was living in a shiathole he didn't have permits for.  Town had two choices when it was clear he was a crazy old coot without the means or ability to actually fix it himself if the place was that big a problem to the rest of the town, hold a barn raising and build him a new actually decent place to live and try to take care of him in his declining years, or try to force him off 'his' land.  One of those choices was moderately expensive and took effort, the other was crazy-old-coot-last-straw and ended up with a couple people dead and 5 more shot and wounded.


This. The law and due process are not magical forcefields that protect you from the consequences of your actions. Just because a government can roll over somebody without technically breaking the law doesn't make it "right". Sometimes showing a bit of humanity and compassion is called for. Down at the level of dealing with people, a certain amount of flexibility is called for. This didn't happen out of the blue; this was a cascade falilure where lots of people made sub-optimal choices.
 
2013-08-06 08:53:22 AM  

gilgigamesh: HotWingConspiracy: According to previous reports, Newell got a building permit from the township to have a storage structure on the property, but then built a dwelling without first getting a zoning permit or certificate of occupancy from the township.

Over the years, authorities have responded to Newell's property as a result of neighbor complaints and on one occasion in 2009 found human fecal matter in buckets there, according to previous reports in the Pocono Record.

The township determined he was improperly disposing of sewage with no septic system or permit for one.

Yeah they totally deserved to die for crossing this asshole.

And it went on for SEVENTEEN YEARS. I love that half or more of the people in this thread are actually defending this crazy fark out of sheer knee jerk reaction.


It's like looking in to a mirror for them.
 
2013-08-06 08:55:24 AM  
People can't just mind their own farking business and they have to stick their nose into other people's business. This was the result of the Gladys Kravitz mentality of yuppies today who cannot stand other peoples' lifestyle. This guy is a martyr. the ones shot....oh well...
 
2013-08-06 08:59:58 AM  

somedude210: SmackLT: So subby, you're saying that the town commissioners shouldn't have given this man the opportunity to discuss a dispute with them? Just roll right over the little guy without recourse? Seems harsh to me.

or you can argue that the town was in the wrong to begin with and shouldn't have pushed a guy to this point, but no, let's blame subby


No, actually, they weren't wrong.  I DNRTA, but I watched the news this morning.  Did you see what that guy's property looked like.  The council in question was WELL within their jurisdiction to have that property condemned.  If he could take the time to go and shoot a bunch of people up, he could have taken the time to clean his damn property - maybe even have a septic system installed.
 
2013-08-06 09:06:22 AM  
Read this, it might change your mind:

Story about the dispute
 
2013-08-06 09:06:33 AM  

gilgigamesh: HotWingConspiracy: According to previous reports, Newell got a building permit from the township to have a storage structure on the property, but then built a dwelling without first getting a zoning permit or certificate of occupancy from the township.

Over the years, authorities have responded to Newell's property as a result of neighbor complaints and on one occasion in 2009 found human fecal matter in buckets there, according to previous reports in the Pocono Record.

The township determined he was improperly disposing of sewage with no septic system or permit for one.

Yeah they totally deserved to die for crossing this asshole.

And it went on for SEVENTEEN YEARS. I love that half or more of the people in this thread are actually defending this crazy fark out of sheer knee jerk reaction.



This article has more context:
http://m.poconorecord.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20130610/NEWS/3 06 100327&template=wapart

Note the part where the township "modifies" paperwork after the guy has signed it. And where the state employee gives him false information that gets him into more trouble.

Basically, an old nearly homeless guy buys a piece of property to live in. NY bedroomers, mentioned before, don't like the dirty poor guy making their new McMansions look bad, so they have the township go after him. They finally got him. He didn't have shiat in buckets, he had a compost toilet because he couldn't afford basic services (god forbid they provide them to a guy with almost no income).

So they acted like little Eichmanns and now the chickens have come home to roost.

The guy wasn't hurting anybody. I guess he would've been better off in some homeless shelter with no property or belongings to his name right? Then at least the city folk wouldn't have had to look at him.

Lesson: Don't be different or they will get you one way or another.
 
2013-08-06 09:07:51 AM  
Uh.. "the owner" of what, the town?
 
2013-08-06 09:08:54 AM  

Frizbone: People can't just mind their own farking business and they have to stick their nose into other people's business. This was the result of the Gladys Kravitz mentality of yuppies today who cannot stand other peoples' lifestyle. This guy is a martyr. the ones shot....oh well...


I am totally moving next door to you. And the poop buckets are going under your bedroom window.
 
2013-08-06 09:09:09 AM  
The people on that council were no different than a schoolyard bully who poke and prods at a kid until he flies off the handle or breaks down and cries.  I'm sure it was very easy for them to declare that he should clean up his property when they were going home to their $200k perfectly manicured mcmansions every night and didn't have a damn thing to worry about.  They knew what they were doing and they probably enjoyed every moment of it right up until their easy target stuck a gun in their faces.

If they had minded their own farking business and let the man just live out his life none of this would have happened.  Instead, they chose to declare themselves the pretentious shiathead judges of how one should live their live and now they paid the consequences.  Bet they wish they would have just left him alone.

Fark em.
 
2013-08-06 09:09:31 AM  

spamdog: Read this, it might change your mind:

Story about the dispute


I assure you it won't.
 
2013-08-06 09:10:31 AM  
And of course you have to dig on faux news to find this story... and the comments are disabled. I love that site!
 
2013-08-06 09:11:59 AM  
Oh My! ...They arrested Santa?
 
2013-08-06 09:12:56 AM  

gilgigamesh: Frizbone: People can't just mind their own farking business and they have to stick their nose into other people's business. This was the result of the Gladys Kravitz mentality of yuppies today who cannot stand other peoples' lifestyle. This guy is a martyr. the ones shot....oh well...

I am totally moving next door to you. And the poop buckets are going under your bedroom window.



And maybe he'll say, "Hey, buddy, I see you're down on your luck. Let's see what help we can get you to get everything set up right."

You know, instead of sending guys with guns to run you off your land.
 
2013-08-06 09:15:35 AM  

spamdog: Read this, it might change your mind:

Story about the dispute


So it's OK for him to shoot wildly through a wall then storm the building shooting? I am confused.....
 
2013-08-06 09:15:53 AM  

kid_icarus: Pocket Ninja: I wonder how long it will be before somebody points out that if everybody in the town meeting had been armed, this wouldn't have happened.

If by "arms" you mean hugs. He could have been stopped with the power of love if everyone had just come together and opened their hearts.


He was stopped by a bear hug from a bystander.

Snark diffused.
 
2013-08-06 09:16:15 AM  

PunGent: CarnySaur: "This land is my land
This land is my land
This land is my land
This land is my land
This land is my land
This land is my land
This land was made for only me."

- Woody Guthrie

"This land is my land
It's not your land
I've got a shotgun
You haven't got one
This land was made for me not you..."

- my property law professor


As I recall from being a precocious youngster in the 70s . . .

"This land is my land
This land is not your land
I've got a shotgun
and you haven't got one
So you better get off,
or I'll blast you head off,
This land was made for only me . . ."

There were other lyrics, but that is all I recall . . .

\\ oh the violent songs we knew pre-present day issues
\ "Hi-ho, hi-ho, it's off to school we go, with razor blades and hand grenades . . ."
 
2013-08-06 09:16:23 AM  
So in a town hall meetting, that always has cops on site

The two people who stopped this violence were two average Joes.

Someone book mark this thread to rub in the face of the bootlickers who tell those of us that criticize cops "Fark you next time you call 9-1-1."

Cops fill out reports for your insurance company (be it life or property). Other than that they are useless criminals.
 
2013-08-06 09:16:42 AM  

Spade: The guy wasn't hurting anybody. I guess he would've been better off in some homeless shelter with no property or belongings to his name right? Then at least the city folk wouldn't have had to look at him.

Lesson: Don't be different or they will get you one way or another.


Well, now he will be living in a jail cell for quite some time. Guess he showed them!
 
2013-08-06 09:18:30 AM  

dittybopper: Pocket Ninja: I wonder how long it will be before somebody points out that if everybody in the town meeting had been armed, this wouldn't have happened.

Actually, someone *DID* use a gun to stop him:

The shooter returned to his car and came back inside with another weapon when a local official at the meeting grabbed him, Reber said.
"(West End Open Space Commission executive director) Bernie Kozen was there tending to the man and he (the shooter) didn't see them," Reber said. "Bernie bearhugged him and took him down. He shot (the shooter) with his own gun."

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/08/06/2-killed-3-injured-in-shooting-a t -pennsylvania-municipal-building/#ixzz2bBrql6I4


See... gay marriages leads to bears hugging each other in public and shooting each other in the face...
 
2013-08-06 09:18:34 AM  
I mean that was the best way to handle such things, right?

If I've learned anything from reading Fark, it's that white men with legally owned guns are never in the wrong when they use them in relation to their property.
 
2013-08-06 09:18:46 AM  
Wish i had the balls the Link land owner does. My Mom's house where I was raised, along with 4 neighbors houses are months away from being unsellable and devalued (yet their taxes will not go down) thanks to the town council members wisdom.
Those 5 houses are on a short hilly street. In the back yards is a fence running perpendicular to the street; on the other side a large property which was a car dealership some 60 years. This is on highway frontage. A convenience store / gas pumping franchise proposed a mega site on the car dealership property larger than any other on that highway in any town. They wish to operate 24 hours a day.
They propose to replace the current 6' wood fence with a massive brick wall. Because of the current laws in NJ the adjacent 5 homes on the hilly street can no longer be sold. The current owners will have to do whatever they have to do, tough luck too bad, just keep paying your taxes on homes that will no longer be worth what they are this very minute, and they will be stuck with them.
The town council was swayed heavily by the convenience store franchise making promises to donate big bucks to the local public schools football fields, because hey, that's what really matters.
Meanwhile my Mom and her neighbors have racked up incredible Lawyer debt trying to defend themselves. Mom is 82, in poor health, in a wheelchair and requires around the clock attendance and help.
Our family lived there over 50 years. It's just a matter of short time before there will be non-stop customer noise, smells of gas deliveries and a huge brick wall taking over an entire owner-locked block.
Personally, I think this is worth thinking about locking and loading for.
 
2013-08-06 09:18:47 AM  

StrangeQ: The people on that council were no different than a schoolyard bully who poke and prods at a kid until he flies off the handle or breaks down and cries.  I'm sure it was very easy for them to declare that he should clean up his property when they were going home to their $200k perfectly manicured mcmansions every night and didn't have a damn thing to worry about.  They knew what they were doing and they probably enjoyed every moment of it right up until their easy target stuck a gun in their faces.

If they had minded their own farking business and let the man just live out his life none of this would have happened.  Instead, they chose to declare themselves the pretentious shiathead judges of how one should live their live and now they paid the consequences.  Bet they wish they would have just left him alone.

Fark em.


Amen brother.
 
2013-08-06 09:18:52 AM  

Spade: gilgigamesh: HotWingConspiracy: According to previous reports, Newell got a building permit from the township to have a storage structure on the property, but then built a dwelling without first getting a zoning permit or certificate of occupancy from the township.

Over the years, authorities have responded to Newell's property as a result of neighbor complaints and on one occasion in 2009 found human fecal matter in buckets there, according to previous reports in the Pocono Record.

The township determined he was improperly disposing of sewage with no septic system or permit for one.

Yeah they totally deserved to die for crossing this asshole.

And it went on for SEVENTEEN YEARS. I love that half or more of the people in this thread are actually defending this crazy fark out of sheer knee jerk reaction.


This article has more context:
http://m.poconorecord.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20130610/NEWS/3 06 100327&template=wapart

Note the part where the township "modifies" paperwork after the guy has signed it. And where the state employee gives him false information that gets him into more trouble.

Basically, an old nearly homeless guy buys a piece of property to live in. NY bedroomers, mentioned before, don't like the dirty poor guy making their new McMansions look bad, so they have the township go after him. They finally got him. He didn't have shiat in buckets, he had a compost toilet because he couldn't afford basic services (god forbid they provide them to a guy with almost no income).

So they acted like little Eichmanns and now the chickens have come home to roost.

The guy wasn't hurting anybody. I guess he would've been better off in some homeless shelter with no property or belongings to his name right? Then at least the city folk wouldn't have had to look at him.

Lesson: Don't be different or they will get you one way or another.


Well that's a lot different story than what else was going on in the thread.
 
2013-08-06 09:19:01 AM  
Looks like he will have government approved housing now.

Way to take one for the Gipper.
 
2013-08-06 09:19:51 AM  

Spade: gilgigamesh: HotWingConspiracy: According to previous reports, Newell got a building permit from the township to have a storage structure on the property, but then built a dwelling without first getting a zoning permit or certificate of occupancy from the township.

Over the years, authorities have responded to Newell's property as a result of neighbor complaints and on one occasion in 2009 found human fecal matter in buckets there, according to previous reports in the Pocono Record.

The township determined he was improperly disposing of sewage with no septic system or permit for one.

Yeah they totally deserved to die for crossing this asshole.

And it went on for SEVENTEEN YEARS. I love that half or more of the people in this thread are actually defending this crazy fark out of sheer knee jerk reaction.


This article has more context:
http://m.poconorecord.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20130610/NEWS/3 06 100327&template=wapart

Note the part where the township "modifies" paperwork after the guy has signed it. And where the state employee gives him false information that gets him into more trouble.

Basically, an old nearly homeless guy buys a piece of property to live in. NY bedroomers, mentioned before, don't like the dirty poor guy making their new McMansions look bad, so they have the township go after him. They finally got him. He didn't have shiat in buckets, he had a compost toilet because he couldn't afford basic services (god forbid they provide them to a guy with almost no income).

So they acted like little Eichmanns and now the chickens have come home to roost.

The guy wasn't hurting anybody. I guess he would've been better off in some homeless shelter with no property or belongings to his name right? Then at least the city folk wouldn't have had to look at him.

Lesson: Don't be different or they will get you one way or another.



The flaw in your argument lies in the fact that he had no problem affording the weapons and ammunition.
 
2013-08-06 09:19:57 AM  
durbnpoisn:

No, actually, they weren't wrong.  I DNRTA, but I watched the news this morning.  Did you see what that guy's property looked like.  The council in question was WELL within their jurisdiction to have that property condemned.  If he could take the time to go and shoot a bunch of people up, he could have taken the time to clean his damn property - maybe even have a septic system installed.

This is America. No, I'm being serious here. We have to let people be free to do with their property what they want. If somebody wants to camp out on their own land or live in an RV or a tent with no running water and use a latrine, who are we to insist that they conform to our idea of a proper way of life? Septic systems can cost thousands of dollars, but that's not the only way to accomplish the same thing.

If somebody has a plot of land outside of town with a well and a septic system, should the city be able to grow and come to that person's property and then insist that they hook into the municipal water and sewer system at a cost of thousands of dollars, whether they want it or not?

There is a strong vein of "criminalizing poverty" that I see in these sorts of government actions. "We don't like "different", everybody has to be the same." Look at the problems that urban farmers fun into, or even non-urban farmers when the county board of supervisors gets a bunch of HOA-type drones elected to it.

The proper analysis should have been "Is this really a problem, or does it just offend our delicate sensibilities that somebody lives like this? Do we actually want to do the humane thing and try to find a way to help resolve the problem, if one really exists? Or do we want to make the icky thing that makes us uncomfortable go away, cloaking our actions in terms of "safety" or "due process?"
 
2013-08-06 09:20:05 AM  
In my own experience, this would be a much better country if everyone was allowed to shoot one zoning board member every year.
 
2013-08-06 09:20:10 AM  

Spade: gilgigamesh: HotWingConspiracy: According to previous reports, Newell got a building permit from the township to have a storage structure on the property, but then built a dwelling without first getting a zoning permit or certificate of occupancy from the township.

Over the years, authorities have responded to Newell's property as a result of neighbor complaints and on one occasion in 2009 found human fecal matter in buckets there, according to previous reports in the Pocono Record.

The township determined he was improperly disposing of sewage with no septic system or permit for one.

Yeah they totally deserved to die for crossing this asshole.

And it went on for SEVENTEEN YEARS. I love that half or more of the people in this thread are actually defending this crazy fark out of sheer knee jerk reaction.


This article has more context:
http://m.poconorecord.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20130610/NEWS/3 06 100327&template=wapart

Note the part where the township "modifies" paperwork after the guy has signed it. And where the state employee gives him false information that gets him into more trouble.

Basically, an old nearly homeless guy buys a piece of property to live in. NY bedroomers, mentioned before, don't like the dirty poor guy making their new McMansions look bad, so they have the township go after him. They finally got him. He didn't have shiat in buckets, he had a compost toilet because he couldn't afford basic services (god forbid they provide them to a guy with almost no income).

So they acted like little Eichmanns and now the chickens have come home to roost.

The guy wasn't hurting anybody. I guess he would've been better off in some homeless shelter with no property or belongings to his name right? Then at least the city folk wouldn't have had to look at him.

Lesson: Don't be different or they will get you one way or another.


The part that really pissed me off was the drainage culvert.  His property was flooding so he wanted to do something about it.  He applied for federal aid, received it and hired a contractor to install the culvert and required right of way for emergency vehicles.  Then the council decides that it is an environmental threat to the stream.  Really?  A farking four foot section of pipe is going to absolutely destroy the local ecosystem?

Everything about this story is contrived bullshiat by that council to dig up every single permit and zoning violation they could find to fuel their vendetta against that man.  Of course, I'm sure they also made sure that he had easy access to all the information and means he needed to apply for those permits, right?  I mean, it's not like they would hide the required paperwork behind arbitrary fees and penalties or lock everything up in subbasement 2C in a file cabinet stuffed in a corner guarded by a rabit bobcat, because that would just be petty.  I'm sure the process was almost painfully easy, so long as you were a respected, well connected member of the community that nobody has a personal grudge against.

Those farking people are another perfect example of the busibody, can't mind your own farking business mentality and honestly they got exactly what was coming to them.
 
2013-08-06 09:20:27 AM  

StrangeQ: The people on that council were no different than a schoolyard bully who poke and prods at a kid until he flies off the handle or breaks down and cries.  I'm sure it was very easy for them to declare that he should clean up his property when they were going home to their $200k perfectly manicured mcmansions every night and didn't have a damn thing to worry about.  They knew what they were doing and they probably enjoyed every moment of it right up until their easy target stuck a gun in their faces.

If they had minded their own farking business and let the man just live out his life none of this would have happened.  Instead, they chose to declare themselves the pretentious shiathead judges of how one should live their live and now they paid the consequences.  Bet they wish they would have just left him alone.

Fark em.


I hope one day someone you know is murdered by someone like this.
 
2013-08-06 09:21:22 AM  

KrispyKritter: Wish i had the balls the Link land owner does.


You wish you had the balls to kill innocent people, eh?

StrangeQ: honestly they got exactly what was coming to them.


Has everyone lost their farking minds or what
 
2013-08-06 09:21:24 AM  

Doom MD: So my concealed carry is about to drop. Should I spring for an Springfield Xdm or get a 1911? I'm in NY, so I'm limited to 10 round mags (so I need big bullets that pack a lot of wallop).


1911A1, no question.
 
2013-08-06 09:21:52 AM  

KrispyKritter: Wish i had the balls the Link land owner does. My Mom's house where I was raised, along with 4 neighbors houses are months away from being unsellable and devalued (yet their taxes will not go down) thanks to the town council members wisdom.
Those 5 houses are on a short hilly street. In the back yards is a fence running perpendicular to the street; on the other side a large property which was a car dealership some 60 years. This is on highway frontage. A convenience store / gas pumping franchise proposed a mega site on the car dealership property larger than any other on that highway in any town. They wish to operate 24 hours a day.
They propose to replace the current 6' wood fence with a massive brick wall. Because of the current laws in NJ the adjacent 5 homes on the hilly street can no longer be sold. The current owners will have to do whatever they have to do, tough luck too bad, just keep paying your taxes on homes that will no longer be worth what they are this very minute, and they will be stuck with them.
The town council was swayed heavily by the convenience store franchise making promises to donate big bucks to the local public schools football fields, because hey, that's what really matters.
Meanwhile my Mom and her neighbors have racked up incredible Lawyer debt trying to defend themselves. Mom is 82, in poor health, in a wheelchair and requires around the clock attendance and help.
Our family lived there over 50 years. It's just a matter of short time before there will be non-stop customer noise, smells of gas deliveries and a huge brick wall taking over an entire owner-locked block.
Personally, I think this is worth thinking about locking and loading for.


So you are openly admitting on the internet that you want to go down to your city council and shoot them all dead? Ummmm.... I don't think you have thought this plan all the way through...
 
2013-08-06 09:22:18 AM  

durbnpoisn: Spade: gilgigamesh: HotWingConspiracy: According to previous reports, Newell got a building permit from the township to have a storage structure on the property, but then built a dwelling without first getting a zoning permit or certificate of occupancy from the township.

Over the years, authorities have responded to Newell's property as a result of neighbor complaints and on one occasion in 2009 found human fecal matter in buckets there, according to previous reports in the Pocono Record.

The township determined he was improperly disposing of sewage with no septic system or permit for one.

Yeah they totally deserved to die for crossing this asshole.

And it went on for SEVENTEEN YEARS. I love that half or more of the people in this thread are actually defending this crazy fark out of sheer knee jerk reaction.


This article has more context:
http://m.poconorecord.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20130610/NEWS/3 06 100327&template=wapart

Note the part where the township "modifies" paperwork after the guy has signed it. And where the state employee gives him false information that gets him into more trouble.

Basically, an old nearly homeless guy buys a piece of property to live in. NY bedroomers, mentioned before, don't like the dirty poor guy making their new McMansions look bad, so they have the township go after him. They finally got him. He didn't have shiat in buckets, he had a compost toilet because he couldn't afford basic services (god forbid they provide them to a guy with almost no income).

So they acted like little Eichmanns and now the chickens have come home to roost.

The guy wasn't hurting anybody. I guess he would've been better off in some homeless shelter with no property or belongings to his name right? Then at least the city folk wouldn't have had to look at him.

Lesson: Don't be different or they will get you one way or another.


The flaw in your argument lies in the fact that he had no problem affording the weapons and ammunition.


The guns and ammunition could have been decades old. Neither is known for going bad quickly you know.
 
2013-08-06 09:23:20 AM  

Deep Contact: Council can sit behind bullet proof glass and let pissed off citizens shoot at them all day to let off steam.


LOLed at work.

My first raised eyebrow from my new boss.

Thanks!
 
2013-08-06 09:24:41 AM  

LasersHurt: KrispyKritter: Wish i had the balls the Link land owner does.

You wish you had the balls to kill innocent people, eh?

StrangeQ: honestly they got exactly what was coming to them.

Has everyone lost their farking minds or what


It's this whole right wing extreme thing going on. The last 30 years (especially the last 8) they have constantly barraged people about the rights and 2nd amendment solutions. This is the result.
 
2013-08-06 09:24:48 AM  
Newsflash:  Brain damaged and grossly mentally ill sociopath goes postal, Kills three......more at four!
 
2013-08-06 09:25:53 AM  

durbnpoisn: Spade: gilgigamesh: HotWingConspiracy: According to previous reports, Newell got a building permit from the township to have a storage structure on the property, but then built a dwelling without first getting a zoning permit or certificate of occupancy from the township.

Over the years, authorities have responded to Newell's property as a result of neighbor complaints and on one occasion in 2009 found human fecal matter in buckets there, according to previous reports in the Pocono Record.

The township determined he was improperly disposing of sewage with no septic system or permit for one.

Yeah they totally deserved to die for crossing this asshole.

And it went on for SEVENTEEN YEARS. I love that half or more of the people in this thread are actually defending this crazy fark out of sheer knee jerk reaction.


This article has more context:
http://m.poconorecord.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20130610/NEWS/3 06 100327&template=wapart

Note the part where the township "modifies" paperwork after the guy has signed it. And where the state employee gives him false information that gets him into more trouble.

Basically, an old nearly homeless guy buys a piece of property to live in. NY bedroomers, mentioned before, don't like the dirty poor guy making their new McMansions look bad, so they have the township go after him. They finally got him. He didn't have shiat in buckets, he had a compost toilet because he couldn't afford basic services (god forbid they provide them to a guy with almost no income).

So they acted like little Eichmanns and now the chickens have come home to roost.

The guy wasn't hurting anybody. I guess he would've been better off in some homeless shelter with no property or belongings to his name right? Then at least the city folk wouldn't have had to look at him.

Lesson: Don't be different or they will get you one way or another.


The flaw in your argument lies in the fact that he had no problem affording the weapons and ammunition.


A gun and ammo costs a few hundred bucks.

Go and try to get a permit for something your city doesn't want you to do on your property. Let me know how much the permits/lawyers/etc. cost you.

One of the way government farks the little guy is by making the process so expensive that only the wealthy can afford it. Oh, you want that culvert and we don't even want you here? Well, you need local permits, a permit from DEP, and permit from Fish and Boat, an engineering study, an ecological impact study, a water study from the Army Corps of Engineers, and a fully laid out plan.
Oh, you can't afford that? Sucks to be you.
 
2013-08-06 09:27:08 AM  

WTF Indeed: StrangeQ: The people on that council were no different than a schoolyard bully who poke and prods at a kid until he flies off the handle or breaks down and cries.  I'm sure it was very easy for them to declare that he should clean up his property when they were going home to their $200k perfectly manicured mcmansions every night and didn't have a damn thing to worry about.  They knew what they were doing and they probably enjoyed every moment of it right up until their easy target stuck a gun in their faces.

If they had minded their own farking business and let the man just live out his life none of this would have happened.  Instead, they chose to declare themselves the pretentious shiathead judges of how one should live their live and now they paid the consequences.  Bet they wish they would have just left him alone.

Fark em.

I hope one day someone you know is murdered by someone like this.


I hope if one day I know someone acting that way I will have the good sense to slap them in their face and tell them to quit being an asshole before they get their stupid ass shot.
 
2013-08-06 09:29:00 AM  
Spade: One of the way government farks the little guy is by making the process so expensive that only the wealthy can afford it. Oh, you want that culvert and we don't even want you here? Well, you need local permits, a permit from DEP, and permit from Fish and Boat, an engineering study, an ecological impact study, a water study from the Army Corps of Engineers, and a fully laid out plan.
Oh, you can't afford that? Sucks to be you.


Yep.  If you're not rich and well connected you have no rights.  Welcome to America.
 
2013-08-06 09:29:09 AM  
LasersHurt

Pocket Ninja: I wonder how long it will be before somebody points out that if everybody in the town meeting had been armed, this wouldn't have happened.

Sure, they could have returned fire through the wall. That would have worked out, I'm sure.

You two of the fark brain trust can of course show us examples of your claims? No? Only examples of cops doing that? What a shame err sham.

Tell us, how did forcing law abiding citizens to disarm work out? Oh, right. Three innocents dead and the criminal surviving.

fact sheet
* Even anti-gun Clinton researchers concede that guns are used 1.5 million times annually for self-defense. According to the Clinton Justice Department, there are as many as 1.5 million cases of self-defense every year. The National Institute of Justice published this figure in 1997 as part of "Guns in America" -- a study which was authored by noted anti-gun criminologists Philip Cook and Jens Ludwig.5
* Armed citizens kill more crooks than do the police. Citizens shoot and kill at least twice as many criminals as police do every year (1,527 to 606).6 And readers of Newsweek learned that "only 2 percent of civilian shootings involved an innocent person mistakenly identified as a criminal. The 'error rate' for the police, however, was 11 percent, more than five times as high."7
* Handguns are the weapon of choice for self-defense. Citizens use handguns to protect themselves over 1.9 million times a year.

Don't let facts get in the way of your derp.
 
2013-08-06 09:29:46 AM  

Into the blue again: LasersHurt: KrispyKritter: Wish i had the balls the Link land owner does.

You wish you had the balls to kill innocent people, eh?

StrangeQ: honestly they got exactly what was coming to them.

Has everyone lost their farking minds or what

It's this whole right wing extreme thing going on. The last 30 years (especially the last 8) they have constantly barraged people about the rights and 2nd amendment solutions. This is the result.


No, you see, you're only allowed to have this kind of response if you're a foreigner who's been oppressed by US government policies for decades, especially if you have a different culture from the mainstream US.

If you're actually a US citizen being oppressed for decades, then you should bend over and take it.

If the US had been trying to take this guy's land in Yemen to build a base, and he'd gone all carbomby, then the same people here saying this guy would evil would be talking about how the US shouldn't have messed with him.
 
2013-08-06 09:30:30 AM  

Spade: gilgigamesh: HotWingConspiracy: According to previous reports, Newell got a building permit from the township to have a storage structure on the property, but then built a dwelling without first getting a zoning permit or certificate of occupancy from the township.

Over the years, authorities have responded to Newell's property as a result of neighbor complaints and on one occasion in 2009 found human fecal matter in buckets there, according to previous reports in the Pocono Record.

The township determined he was improperly disposing of sewage with no septic system or permit for one.

Yeah they totally deserved to die for crossing this asshole.

And it went on for SEVENTEEN YEARS. I love that half or more of the people in this thread are actually defending this crazy fark out of sheer knee jerk reaction.


This article has more context:
http://m.poconorecord.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20130610/NEWS/3 06 100327&template=wapart

Note the part where the township "modifies" paperwork after the guy has signed it. And where the state employee gives him false information that gets him into more trouble.

Basically, an old nearly homeless guy buys a piece of property to live in. NY bedroomers, mentioned before, don't like the dirty poor guy making their new McMansions look bad, so they have the township go after him. They finally got him. He didn't have shiat in buckets, he had a compost toilet because he couldn't afford basic services (god forbid they provide them to a guy with almost no income).

So they acted like little Eichmanns and now the chickens have come home to roost.

The guy wasn't hurting anybody. I guess he would've been better off in some homeless shelter with no property or belongings to his name right? Then at least the city folk wouldn't have had to look at him.

Lesson: Don't be different or they will get you one way or another.


Well, aside from the fact that you're almost completely wrong, this is a good post.  Where the guy lives, there are no McMansions.

And you aren't allowed to ignore the laws you don't like. You can't build a huge Castle in a residential neighborhood and you can't put up a Wal Mart in your back yard and you can't live in squalor in an area that doesn't allow it.
 
2013-08-06 09:30:45 AM  

OnlyM3: LasersHurt

Pocket Ninja: I wonder how long it will be before somebody points out that if everybody in the town meeting had been armed, this wouldn't have happened.

Sure, they could have returned fire through the wall. That would have worked out, I'm sure.

You two of the fark brain trust can of course show us examples of your claims? No? Only examples of cops doing that?


This man fired through a wall. We suggested, in obvious jest, that carriers might return fire through the wall. This was written in plain text, and was clearly meant lightly. I have no idea why you thought this meant complaining about "disarmament."

OnlyM3: Don't let facts get in the way of your derp.


You either, my fine fool.
 
2013-08-06 09:30:52 AM  

OnlyM3: LasersHurt

Pocket Ninja: I wonder how long it will be before somebody points out that if everybody in the town meeting had been armed, this wouldn't have happened.

Sure, they could have returned fire through the wall. That would have worked out, I'm sure.
You two of the fark brain trust can of course show us examples of your claims? No? Only examples of cops doing that? What a shame err sham.

Tell us, how did forcing law abiding citizens to disarm work out? Oh, right. Three innocents dead and the criminal surviving.

fact sheet
* Even anti-gun Clinton researchers concede that guns are used 1.5 million times annually for self-defense. According to the Clinton Justice Department, there are as many as 1.5 million cases of self-defense every year. The National Institute of Justice published this figure in 1997 as part of "Guns in America" -- a study which was authored by noted anti-gun criminologists Philip Cook and Jens Ludwig.5
* Armed citizens kill more crooks than do the police. Citizens shoot and kill at least twice as many criminals as police do every year (1,527 to 606).6 And readers of Newsweek learned that "only 2 percent of civilian shootings involved an innocent person mistakenly identified as a criminal. The 'error rate' for the police, however, was 11 percent, more than five times as high."7
* Handguns are the weapon of choice for self-defense. Citizens use handguns to protect themselves over 1.9 million times a year.
Don't let facts get in the way of your derp.


Thats.....it's......beautiful!!
 
2013-08-06 09:31:21 AM  

OnlyM3: So in a town hall meetting, that always has cops on site

The two people who stopped this violence were two average Joes.

Someone book mark this thread to rub in the face of the bootlickers who tell those of us that criticize cops "Fark you next time you call 9-1-1."

Cops fill out reports for your insurance company (be it life or property). Other than that they are useless criminals.


Sometimes they even refuse to do that much.
 
2013-08-06 09:31:27 AM  

Spade: gilgigamesh: HotWingConspiracy: According to previous reports, Newell got a building permit from the township to have a storage structure on the property, but then built a dwelling without first getting a zoning permit or certificate of occupancy from the township.

Over the years, authorities have responded to Newell's property as a result of neighbor complaints and on one occasion in 2009 found human fecal matter in buckets there, according to previous reports in the Pocono Record.

The township determined he was improperly disposing of sewage with no septic system or permit for one.

Yeah they totally deserved to die for crossing this asshole.

And it went on for SEVENTEEN YEARS. I love that half or more of the people in this thread are actually defending this crazy fark out of sheer knee jerk reaction.


This article has more context:
http://m.poconorecord.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20130610/NEWS/3 06 100327&template=wapart

Note the part where the township "modifies" paperwork after the guy has signed it. And where the state employee gives him false information that gets him into more trouble.

Basically, an old nearly homeless guy buys a piece of property to live in. NY bedroomers, mentioned before, don't like the dirty poor guy making their new McMansions look bad, so they have the township go after him. They finally got him. He didn't have shiat in buckets, he had a compost toilet because he couldn't afford basic services (god forbid they provide them to a guy with almost no income).

So they acted like little Eichmanns and now the chickens have come home to roost.

The guy wasn't hurting anybody. I guess he would've been better off in some homeless shelter with no property or belongings to his name right? Then at least the city folk wouldn't have had to look at him.

Lesson: Don't be different or they will get you one way or another.


Should have sold his guns. You farking freak.
 
2013-08-06 09:32:10 AM  

durbnpoisn: Spade: gilgigamesh: HotWingConspiracy: According to previous reports, Newell got a building permit from the township to have a storage structure on the property, but then built a dwelling without first getting a zoning permit or certificate of occupancy from the township.

Over the years, authorities have responded to Newell's property as a result of neighbor complaints and on one occasion in 2009 found human fecal matter in buckets there, according to previous reports in the Pocono Record.

The township determined he was improperly disposing of sewage with no septic system or permit for one.

Yeah they totally deserved to die for crossing this asshole.

And it went on for SEVENTEEN YEARS. I love that half or more of the people in this thread are actually defending this crazy fark out of sheer knee jerk reaction.


This article has more context:
http://m.poconorecord.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20130610/NEWS/3 06 100327&template=wapart

Note the part where the township "modifies" paperwork after the guy has signed it. And where the state employee gives him false information that gets him into more trouble.

Basically, an old nearly homeless guy buys a piece of property to live in. NY bedroomers, mentioned before, don't like the dirty poor guy making their new McMansions look bad, so they have the township go after him. They finally got him. He didn't have shiat in buckets, he had a compost toilet because he couldn't afford basic services (god forbid they provide them to a guy with almost no income).

So they acted like little Eichmanns and now the chickens have come home to roost.

The guy wasn't hurting anybody. I guess he would've been better off in some homeless shelter with no property or belongings to his name right? Then at least the city folk wouldn't have had to look at him.

Lesson: Don't be different or they will get you one way or another.


The flaw in your argument lies in the fact that he had no problem affording the weapons and ammunition.


Or computing equipment...he has a Facebook page and mentions it.

Rockne Newell:

https://www.facebook.com/rockne1865?fref=ts
 
2013-08-06 09:32:11 AM  

escherblacksmith: oh the violent songs we knew pre-present day issues
\ "Hi-ho, hi-ho, it's off to school we go, with razor blades and hand grenades . . ."


Mine eyes have seen the glory
of the burning of the school
we have tortured every teacher
we have broken every rule
We're gonna hang the principal
tomorrow after school
Third Grade is marching on!


Glory glory hallelujah
My teacher hit me with a ruler
I met her at the door
With a loaded 44
And she ain't my teacher no more

Kids.
 
2013-08-06 09:32:34 AM  

LasersHurt: Pocket Ninja: I wonder how long it will be before somebody points out that if everybody in the town meeting had been armed, this wouldn't have happened.

Sure, they could have returned fire through the wall. That would have worked out, I'm sure.


The thing that everyone is missing here is that due to various Democratic-enforced building codes and safety regulations, the town hall was not built with walls strong enough to stop bullets based on the current regulations. If the job-killing building codes were removed, the free market would've driven the cost down to the point where the town would've selectively chosen to install bullet-stopping concrete walls when building the town hall.

So, thanks Obama, for another set of countless gun deaths on your watch. Romney would've put an end to this madness.
 
2013-08-06 09:32:38 AM  
I got no beef with a guy who fights city hall, but this guy ignored all rules , permits, and just pretty much did whatever he wanted to do, and fark the consequences. Then after all the time ran out for him to actually DO something to improve his land, get permits, he went on a rampage and killed innocent people just doing their jobs. This is a clear case of "im an asshole, and will do whatever i want. You don't like it? I KILL YOU". fark him, this jackass has no place in polite society, and needs to be put down. Too bad the guy who grabbed his gun didn't shoot him in the head and save the taxpayer the cost of trial and incarceration.
 
2013-08-06 09:33:56 AM  

LasersHurt: KrispyKritter: Wish i had the balls the Link land owner does.

You wish you had the balls to kill innocent people, eh?

StrangeQ: honestly they got exactly what was coming to them.

Has everyone lost their farking minds or what


Of course they have, they're on a steady diet of right wing gun nut culture. All of them are just itching for a fight like this. They'll see it as righteous justice when they shoot down unarmed people because of some perceived slight from the gummermint.
 
2013-08-06 09:34:07 AM  
http://www.fark.com/comments/7876274/85768273#c8 5768273">CarnySaur: "This land is my land
This land is my land
This land is my land
This land is my land
This land is my land
This land is my land
This land was made for only me."

- Woody Guthrie



Actually, this is what the Right thinks of that song:
This land is my land, it is not your land
I got a shotgun, and you ain't got none
If you don't get off, I'll call the sheriff
This land is private property

http://www.thedailypage.com/isthmus/article.php? article=40525
 
2013-08-06 09:34:11 AM  
You can't fight city hall
 
2013-08-06 09:34:43 AM  
*FBI to thread #85768649, please*
 
2013-08-06 09:35:34 AM  

Bit'O'Gristle: I got no beef with a guy who fights city hall, but this guy ignored all rules , permits, and just pretty much did whatever he wanted to do, and fark the consequences. Then after all the time ran out for him to actually DO something to improve his land, get permits, he went on a rampage and killed innocent people just doing their jobs. This is a clear case of "im an asshole, and will do whatever i want. You don't like it? I KILL YOU". fark him, this jackass has no place in polite society, and needs to be put down. Too bad the guy who grabbed his gun didn't shoot him in the head and save the taxpayer the cost of trial and incarceration.


http://m.poconorecord.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20130610/NEWS/30 6 100327&template=wapart">http://m.poconorecord.com/apps/pbcs.dll/artic le?AID=/20130610/NEWS/306 100327&template=wapart
 
2013-08-06 09:36:49 AM  
Heh...one of his Facebook posts from last March:

"We can change the way we interact with each other! & this will do more to reduce violence then gun control i.e. the overwhelming % of rape is strong arm, the Sam is true of other crime! Gun Control is not crime control! Gun control will not reduce violent crime! Muder even mass muder existed long before guns! "
 
2013-08-06 09:37:56 AM  
Wow.

Lot of pro-murder anti-authority wanna-be libertarian trolling douche accounts coming out of the woodwork for this thread.
 
2013-08-06 09:39:32 AM  

Spade: Into the blue again: LasersHurt: KrispyKritter: Wish i had the balls the Link land owner does.

You wish you had the balls to kill innocent people, eh?

StrangeQ: honestly they got exactly what was coming to them.

Has everyone lost their farking minds or what

It's this whole right wing extreme thing going on. The last 30 years (especially the last 8) they have constantly barraged people about the rights and 2nd amendment solutions. This is the result.

No, you see, you're only allowed to have this kind of response if you're a foreigner who's been oppressed by US government policies for decades, especially if you have a different culture from the mainstream US.

If you're actually a US citizen being oppressed for decades, then you should bend over and take it.

If the US had been trying to take this guy's land in Yemen to build a base, and he'd gone all carbomby, then the same people here saying this guy would evil would be talking about how the US shouldn't have messed with him.


What is this, I don't even.....
 
2013-08-06 09:39:44 AM  
OK, so I took a look on Google Earth of this guy's property.

It's completely wooded, on a section of road that has at most one other home on it.  It's in a deep valley also, so the chances of him getting a lot of other neighbors are fairly slim.

Seems to me this guy's only real crime prior to committing murder* is "living off the grid" on the cheap.  And yeah, his place is a dump, but it can hardly be considered an eyesore because you can't really see it unless you go up his driveway.


*Make no mistake, I may be sympathetic to his plight home-wise, but that's not an excuse to kill people indiscriminately.
 
2013-08-06 09:41:02 AM  
Wasn't the US formed because of a violent reaction to a property dispute?
 
2013-08-06 09:41:06 AM  

HotWingConspiracy: LasersHurt: KrispyKritter: Wish i had the balls the Link land owner does.

You wish you had the balls to kill innocent people, eh?

StrangeQ: honestly they got exactly what was coming to them.

Has everyone lost their farking minds or what

Of course they have, they're on a steady diet of right wing gun nut culture. All of them are just itching for a fight like this. They'll see it as righteous justice when they shoot down unarmed people because of some perceived slight from the gummermint.


Oddly enough, if you read the guy's facebook page...he wasn't right wing. Well, except on guns.

Otherwise he was full on left. Hated religion (mostly Christianity), hated Republicans, loved government assistance programs, etc.

In other words, he was the kind of guy who probably thought government was supposed to be there to <i>help</i> him. Not steal his land and run him out of town at gunpoint. You can see why he felt betrayed.
 
2013-08-06 09:41:16 AM  

dittybopper: *Make no mistake, I may be sympathetic to his plight home-wise, but that's not an excuse to kill people indiscriminately.


This is the fine line between the generally reasonable, you, and these other twinklefarks.
 
2013-08-06 09:42:05 AM  

snowshovel: LasersHurt: Pocket Ninja: I wonder how long it will be before somebody points out that if everybody in the town meeting had been armed, this wouldn't have happened.

Sure, they could have returned fire through the wall. That would have worked out, I'm sure.

The thing that everyone is missing here is that due to various Democratic-enforced building codes and safety regulations, the town hall was not built with walls strong enough to stop bullets based on the current regulations. If the job-killing building codes were removed, the free market would've driven the cost down to the point where the town would've selectively chosen to install bullet-stopping concrete walls when building the town hall.

So, thanks Obama, for another set of countless gun deaths on your watch. Romney would've put an end to this madness.


Oh my, You are highlighted as favorite now. This is perfection, thanks!!
 
2013-08-06 09:42:08 AM  

durbnpoisn: The flaw in your argument lies in the fact that he had no problem affording the weapons and ammunition.


So, yeah, because he could afford to spend a couple hundred bucks for some guns that he likely bought decades ago, he can afford to put in a $40,000 septic system.
 
2013-08-06 09:43:46 AM  

LasersHurt: dittybopper: *Make no mistake, I may be sympathetic to his plight home-wise, but that's not an excuse to kill people indiscriminately.

This is the fine line between the generally reasonable, you, and these other twinklefarks.


Ah yes, the "I don't like what this is, but rules is rules and we should all just obey the rules even if they are arbitrary and discriminatory because I don't like to fight" mentality.
 
2013-08-06 09:48:13 AM  

dittybopper: durbnpoisn: The flaw in your argument lies in the fact that he had no problem affording the weapons and ammunition.

So, yeah, because he could afford to spend a couple hundred bucks for some guns that he likely bought decades ago, he can afford to put in a $40,000 septic system.


Jesus christ what does a septic system cost where you live holy shiat...

While I am sympathetic to this guy too, he had many many many years to try to improve things, too.
 
2013-08-06 09:48:23 AM  

dittybopper: OK, so I took a look on Google Earth of this guy's property.

It's completely wooded, on a section of road that has at most one other home on it.  It's in a deep valley also, so the chances of him getting a lot of other neighbors are fairly slim.

Seems to me this guy's only real crime prior to committing murder* is "living off the grid" on the cheap.  And yeah, his place is a dump, but it can hardly be considered an eyesore because you can't really see it unless you go up his driveway.


*Make no mistake, I may be sympathetic to his plight home-wise, but that's not an excuse to kill people indiscriminately.


Living off the grid? Dude had an iPhone. Come on. He bought things, he had a monthly disability income. You aren't allowed to live in a farking shed with no sanitation system, I don't care where it is. The culvert he built was not to code, he didn't bother to even check with the county because he claims FEMA told him he didn't have to, something FEMA said they never told him. The dude is nuts and paranoid. I lived next to a little old lady who was mentally challenged and hoarded, she used to drag everyone's trash in her yard and the rats were everywhere. The health department can and does have the right to condemn a property if you don't follow laws.
 
2013-08-06 09:48:51 AM  

StrangeQ: LasersHurt: dittybopper: *Make no mistake, I may be sympathetic to his plight home-wise, but that's not an excuse to kill people indiscriminately.

This is the fine line between the generally reasonable, you, and these other twinklefarks.

Ah yes, the "I don't like what this is, but rules is rules and we should all just obey the rules even if they are arbitrary and discriminatory because I don't like to fight" mentality.


Murder. Murder is the rule in question. Don't do that, at all.
 
2013-08-06 09:54:34 AM  

LasersHurt: StrangeQ: LasersHurt: dittybopper: *Make no mistake, I may be sympathetic to his plight home-wise, but that's not an excuse to kill people indiscriminately.

This is the fine line between the generally reasonable, you, and these other twinklefarks.

Ah yes, the "I don't like what this is, but rules is rules and we should all just obey the rules even if they are arbitrary and discriminatory because I don't like to fight" mentality.

Murder. Murder is the rule in question. Don't do that, at all.


So what was it when we revolted against the Brittish?
 
2013-08-06 09:55:22 AM  
I was kinda under the impression that the full issue here was that his property was a total friggin junk yard.

You know, he could probably sold most of the garbage on his land, cleaned it up, and had plenty of money to live however he wanted.

All the people in this thread defending his right to be a garbage horder are seeming a little strange to me.
 
2013-08-06 09:55:26 AM  

dodecahedron: Or computing equipment...he has a Facebook page and mentions it.

Rockne Newell:

https://www.facebook.com/rockne1865?fref=ts


Reads more like his phone was his link to the world, and the only link he had.  He comments on various phones (HTC, iPhone, Samsung).   He doesn't say he actually *HAS* them, though, except for the iPhones (he had an iPhone 3GS, then upgraded to an iPhone 5).

I don't see a mention of computer equipment like laptops, etc.  Maybe I missed it.

Also, reading this, it's pretty plain his political orientation leaned to the left.  I find this hilarious, personally:

We need more environmental Regulations after they make a trillion dollar mess it's to late! Remember BP & the gulf! If they had obeyed the rules instead of trying to save a few bucks we wouldn't have a hundred years of mess, Fair Trade will bring back good jobs & raise the value of the dollar hell I just paid $30 for 9 gallons of gas, that's because the Mitt Romney's of the world sent the manufacturing jobs out of the country (which makes America military vulnerable) we need a balance of trade & the best to achieve that is Fair Trade 40 hour work weeks & environmental regulations or a tarrif & 10% make being a polluter costly! We can compete if everybody has the same costs & we can all have clean air, water & a nice life!

Nice how he thinks the rules should apply to corporations, but not himself.

Having said that, he didn't have the money that BP had, but still, it does sound a tad hypocritical.
 
2013-08-06 09:55:33 AM  

LasersHurt: dittybopper: durbnpoisn: The flaw in your argument lies in the fact that he had no problem affording the weapons and ammunition.

So, yeah, because he could afford to spend a couple hundred bucks for some guns that he likely bought decades ago, he can afford to put in a $40,000 septic system.

Jesus christ what does a septic system cost where you live holy shiat...

While I am sympathetic to this guy too, he had many many many years to try to improve things, too.


This is what the crazy fark claimed in one of the old articles that it would cost for a sewer connection. A septic system, another option, would have clearly cost much less, plus if he actually did have a composting toilet (which I doubt) it could have been permitted for a lot less than either one. But this idiot chose not to follow the law. I don't know what part of "responsible adult" some of you don't understand. Property ownership is not without responsibility.
 
2013-08-06 09:55:41 AM  

StrangeQ: LasersHurt: StrangeQ: LasersHurt: dittybopper: *Make no mistake, I may be sympathetic to his plight home-wise, but that's not an excuse to kill people indiscriminately.

This is the fine line between the generally reasonable, you, and these other twinklefarks.

Ah yes, the "I don't like what this is, but rules is rules and we should all just obey the rules even if they are arbitrary and discriminatory because I don't like to fight" mentality.

Murder. Murder is the rule in question. Don't do that, at all.

So what was it when we revolted against the Brittish?


You mean when when we fought uniformed soldiers, instead of gunning down innocents?

I mean I'm being trolled and just not getting it, right?
 
2013-08-06 09:58:56 AM  

durbnpoisn: I was kinda under the impression that the full issue here was that his property was a total friggin junk yard.

You know, he could probably sold most of the garbage on his land, cleaned it up, and had plenty of money to live however he wanted.

All the people in this thread defending his right to be a garbage horder are seeming a little strange to me.


I'm a firm believer in that one should be able to do what he pleases with their property, until it affects someone else.

This guy, living in secluded area, was not affecting anyone around him with the way his property was kept.  That's what I gather from reading the article anyway.

Unfortunately, once a city/town/county is out to get you, unless you can afford lawyers for big $$$, you're gonna get the shaft.  I can see why this guy did what he did, though I don't necessarily condone it.
 
2013-08-06 10:03:58 AM  

dodecahedron: dittybopper: OK, so I took a look on Google Earth of this guy's property.

It's completely wooded, on a section of road that has at most one other home on it.  It's in a deep valley also, so the chances of him getting a lot of other neighbors are fairly slim.

Seems to me this guy's only real crime prior to committing murder* is "living off the grid" on the cheap.  And yeah, his place is a dump, but it can hardly be considered an eyesore because you can't really see it unless you go up his driveway.


*Make no mistake, I may be sympathetic to his plight home-wise, but that's not an excuse to kill people indiscriminately.

Living off the grid? Dude had an iPhone. Come on. He bought things, he had a monthly disability income. You aren't allowed to live in a farking shed with no sanitation system, I don't care where it is. The culvert he built was not to code, he didn't bother to even check with the county because he claims FEMA told him he didn't have to, something FEMA said they never told him. The dude is nuts and paranoid. I lived next to a little old lady who was mentally challenged and hoarded, she used to drag everyone's trash in her yard and the rats were everywhere. The health department can and does have the right to condemn a property if you don't follow laws.


You're also glossing over the DEP employee who allowed the construction to continue and specifically dictated that the culvert be installed higher than allowed by DEP regulations, though he should have gotten permits in the first place. The FEMA crutch is a non sequitur for both sides, and frankly I think the township/DEP bears the burden of addressing this issue since they explicitly allowed work to continue. Issue a special exemption as a one-off or grandfather him in. As long as the culvert isn't structurally deficient or inhibiting the water flow, I really don't see why the township/DEP would be up in arms.

"  Weredyk then let the contractor continue work, but directed the contractor to install the culvert six inches higher than what state Department of Environmental Protection permit regulations allow, Newell said."Now, because of Weredyk's mistake, they're telling me the culvert blocks the stream's flow instead of letting it pass through," he said. "So now, they're not giving me a permit until that gets fixed, which I don't have the money to do. The contractor who was doing the work for me, when Weredyk came and screwed things up, is a friend of mine who knows I have no money and was doing me a favor."

You are also glossing over the town falsifying documents after they'd been filed.

Newell appealed in county court, presenting the township's copy of his building permit application form. On the form's "building's intended use" line, someone had written "only" after "storage" so that it read "storage only."


The township employee who handled the application testified she and Newell signed the form and that someone else afterward must have put that "only" there, without her or Newell's knowledge. Newell said this proved the township had not required him to get a separate permit to use the structure also as a dwelling.



A composting toilet isn't ideal, but as long as it was functional, sealed, and not posing a health threat to anyone, I don't see why they'd require a septic system. It's not like they were requiring him to hookup water to live on the property (if they did, I couldn't find it). Then again, composting toilets come in a wide range of quality, so it's a legitimate beef unless more information comes available.


Shooting people was not the way to go, but it does seem the township was never really fond of this guy owning that property.


http://m.poconorecord.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20130610/NEWS/ 306 100327&template=wapart
 
2013-08-06 10:04:00 AM  

LasersHurt: StrangeQ: LasersHurt: StrangeQ: LasersHurt: dittybopper: *Make no mistake, I may be sympathetic to his plight home-wise, but that's not an excuse to kill people indiscriminately.

This is the fine line between the generally reasonable, you, and these other twinklefarks.

Ah yes, the "I don't like what this is, but rules is rules and we should all just obey the rules even if they are arbitrary and discriminatory because I don't like to fight" mentality.

Murder. Murder is the rule in question. Don't do that, at all.

So what was it when we revolted against the Brittish?

You mean when when we fought uniformed soldiers, instead of gunning down innocents?

I mean I'm being trolled and just not getting it, right?


Innocents would imply that they had no connection to the issue at hand.
 
2013-08-06 10:05:42 AM  

StrangeQ: Innocents would imply that they had no connection to the issue at hand.


Did they? How do you know which people were involved with that man's case? And what did they do that deserved death?

Either I'm being trolled, OR you're too farked for me to acknowledge any further.
 
2013-08-06 10:06:52 AM  

LasersHurt: dittybopper: durbnpoisn: The flaw in your argument lies in the fact that he had no problem affording the weapons and ammunition.

So, yeah, because he could afford to spend a couple hundred bucks for some guns that he likely bought decades ago, he can afford to put in a $40,000 septic system.

Jesus christ what does a septic system cost where you live holy shiat...

While I am sympathetic to this guy too, he had many many many years to try to improve things, too.


Read the one article:  According to him, it would have cost him $40,000 for the soil testing.

I find that hard to believe, but I can believe it might cost him $40,000 to have a septic system put in with all the associated costs:  He lives in what is essentially a canyon with a small stream running through it, and he's uphill of the stream.

I don't know if he has electricity or water running to his house, but I doubt it if he's using a composting toilet.

He would probably have to have either a well drilled or water run up to the house in order to use a flush toilet, and as I said, he's on the side of a hill, so putting a septic system in, along with the other costs, would have been prohibitive.  Maybe he was exaggerating the cost, but even if it only would cost $15,000 total (Average cost in his zip code of 15237 is about $8,000), doesn't seem to me like he could afford something like that.
 
2013-08-06 10:07:59 AM  

HotWingConspiracy: Spade: Maybe the government shouldn't have tried to run a guy off his land through an expensive regulatory scheme?

Small town in NEPA so you can assume it is corrupt as hell.

According to previous reports, Newell got a building permit from the township to have a storage structure on the property, but then built a dwelling without first getting a zoning permit or certificate of occupancy from the township.

Over the years, authorities have responded to Newell's property as a result of neighbor complaints and on one occasion in 2009 found human fecal matter in buckets there, according to previous reports in the Pocono Record.

The township determined he was improperly disposing of sewage with no septic system or permit for one.

Yeah they totally deserved to die for crossing this asshole.


If the hillbilly wants to shiat in a bucket, let him. It's rural rock patch at the base of the Pocono Mts. Not even decent farm country. Shale and conifers.

They have a saying around there, Leave these old kooks be, or you might get shot.
 
2013-08-06 10:09:05 AM  

somedude210: LasersHurt: Yes, the town MADE HIM shoot people. It's really their fault, dressing that way.

*headdesk* fark it, I give up. No one's to blame, this is a completely unpreventable situation and it was bound to happen


THIS.  Don't try to understand crazy, and if you CAN understand it... seek help?
 
2013-08-06 10:09:08 AM  

dittybopper: Maybe he was exaggerating the cost, but even if it only would cost $15,000 total (Average cost in his zip code of 15237 is about $8,000), doesn't seem to me like he could afford something like that.


He was absolutely exaggerating it. I live right around here.

My point about him having years is related here - he had time to put together money for improvements. He knew there needed to be improvements. He did not make them.
 
2013-08-06 10:12:34 AM  

dittybopper: durbnpoisn: The flaw in your argument lies in the fact that he had no problem affording the weapons and ammunition.

So, yeah, because he could afford to spend a couple hundred bucks for some guns that he likely bought decades ago, he can afford to put in a $40,000 septic system.


Don't forget that he had a computer.  He could afford a computer and possibly internet access.  To some in this thread, that means he can afford tens of thousands of dollars in up front costs to jump through whatever hoops the town put in front of him.
 
2013-08-06 10:13:35 AM  

LasersHurt: StrangeQ: LasersHurt: dittybopper: *Make no mistake, I may be sympathetic to his plight home-wise, but that's not an excuse to kill people indiscriminately.

This is the fine line between the generally reasonable, you, and these other twinklefarks.

Ah yes, the "I don't like what this is, but rules is rules and we should all just obey the rules even if they are arbitrary and discriminatory because I don't like to fight" mentality.

Murder. Murder is the rule in question. Don't do that, at all.


this is awesome. this thread has cheered me right up
 
2013-08-06 10:13:37 AM  

WTF Indeed: somedude210: or you can argue that the town was in the wrong to begin with and shouldn't have pushed a guy to this point, but no, let's blame subby

Or you can shut the f*ck up

(emphasis mine)
Now THERE's another candidate for Conflict Resolution Classes.

We don't teach that to kids at all and now, that Mr. Rogers is dead, there's no where to even stumble across it.
(yeah, I know, but they're the older nicer ones so they don't count *sarcasm*)
Nobody dislikes anything anymore -  we "Hate" it
Only violence solves problems - from Powerpuff Girls to Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles kids don't know there is an alternate path to resolution.  Peaceful Resolution is just not in their skill set and seems like an alien concept to them.
Our evening news is no help either, only a smallish thirty second bow to sanity at the end of each newscast which is easily dismissible as pandering to "weaklings".

This person, this shooter is of an age that he's grown up with television and so he has a "modern view" of the world, one that's been mediated by corporations.  There's enormous amounts of money to be made by cultivating fear among the populace.  Rush, Glen, Sarah, Ann all understand this and because of it they teeter on the edge of racism and fear mongering,
Dividing us up as either have's or have more's afraid of the have not's.  Which is plainly decipherable as white vs non-white, native vs non-native, rich vs poor.

This is not the only problem though it's a huge one.  Another issue that feeds into this is the "I'm so busy and resolution takes time to achieve so  .  .  .  "Shut the f*ck up" is a quick method to dismiss anyone else's opposing view.
It's taken me a good deal of time to write this but, for me, this is a very important topic this lack of desire for Conflict Resolution.
I have a kid, I want her to grow and enjoy the best that's possible in this world and you can't do that if you're in a coffin.

As bad as it is now, it will only get worse because there is nothing to stop it.
Similar to "The Guns of Will Sonnet", no lie, just fact.
 
2013-08-06 10:14:08 AM  
So pretty much the shooter will now get free food, healthcare, shelter, television, education, and more. Take note Baby Boomers, not a bad retirement plan right?
 
2013-08-06 10:18:56 AM  

redmid17: A composting toilet isn't ideal, but as long as it was functional, sealed, and not posing a health threat to anyone, I don't see why they'd require a septic system. It's not like they were requiring him to hookup water to live on the property (if they did, I couldn't find it). Then again, composting toilets come in a wide range of quality, so it's a legitimate beef unless more information comes available.


Shooting people was not the way to go, but it does seem the township was never really fond of this guy owning that property.


Right, blame the townspeople for causing their own deaths. Is freedom from zoning laws in your retarded version the Constitution too?
 
2013-08-06 10:19:37 AM  

dodecahedron: Living off the grid? Dude had an iPhone.


Gee, that's odd.  Why would a person who lived in a place with (I assume) no electricity, water, or copper phone lines chose to use a cell phone?  That just seems wrong, he should have purchased a wired sound-powered field telephone from the local Army/Navy surplus store or something.

Come on. He bought things, he had a monthly disability income. You aren't allowed to live in a farking shed with no sanitation system, I don't care where it is.

According to him, he has a composting toilet, which is a sanitation system.

Also, you are allowed to live in a shed with minimum stuff in it.   People do it all the time.

In fact, had he a couple of campers on his property.  If he lived in them, they probably couldn't have done anything about it.  In fact, I think that's why he was allowed to remain, because they couldn't prove he was living in the shack itself until he told them that's where he lived.
 
2013-08-06 10:20:51 AM  

Outrageous Muff: redmid17: A composting toilet isn't ideal, but as long as it was functional, sealed, and not posing a health threat to anyone, I don't see why they'd require a septic system. It's not like they were requiring him to hookup water to live on the property (if they did, I couldn't find it). Then again, composting toilets come in a wide range of quality, so it's a legitimate beef unless more information comes available.


Shooting people was not the way to go, but it does seem the township was never really fond of this guy owning that property.

Right, blame the townspeople for causing their own deaths. Is freedom from zoning laws in your retarded version the Constitution too?


Ah the special ed guy is back. You never did answer my question about which cartels had been listed as terrorist organizations yesterday. You actually ran from the thread after multiple people called you out on your nonsensical posts. Seems like you're doubling down today.
 
2013-08-06 10:21:45 AM  

dittybopper: durbnpoisn: The flaw in your argument lies in the fact that he had no problem affording the weapons and ammunition.

So, yeah, because he could afford to spend a couple hundred bucks for some guns that he likely bought decades ago, he can afford to put in a $40,000 septic system.


Money or not, you cannot just crap in buckets and dump it around your property. It is a health hazard to anyone who lives downstream from the home.
 
2013-08-06 10:21:46 AM  
I'll give ya $20 for the poop buckets...

4.bp.blogspot.com
 
2013-08-06 10:22:40 AM  

redmid17: Ah the special ed guy is back. You never did answer my question about which cartels had been listed as terrorist organizations yesterday. You actually ran from the thread after multiple people called you out on your nonsensical posts. Seems like you're doubling down today.


It's nice that you're consistently pro-murder of innocent people in order to stick it to the government.
 
2013-08-06 10:24:03 AM  

CreampuffCasperMilktoast: So pretty much the shooter will now get free food, healthcare, shelter, television, education, and more. Take note Baby Boomers, not a bad retirement plan right?


To put it in perspective, in many ways, it will actually up his standard of living.
 
2013-08-06 10:25:29 AM  

monoski: dittybopper: durbnpoisn: The flaw in your argument lies in the fact that he had no problem affording the weapons and ammunition.

So, yeah, because he could afford to spend a couple hundred bucks for some guns that he likely bought decades ago, he can afford to put in a $40,000 septic system.

Money or not, you cannot just crap in buckets and dump it around your property. It is a health hazard to anyone who lives downstream from the home.


You don't know he did that.  He claims he had a composting toilet.  That's a completely legit way to handle human waste, and you don't know that he was dumping it around his property.  Not even the town made that claim.
 
2013-08-06 10:27:31 AM  
It's telling the people in here that are coming to the defense of someone who thinks shiatting into buckets and storing them is sanitary.
 
2013-08-06 10:28:26 AM  

Outrageous Muff: redmid17: Ah the special ed guy is back. You never did answer my question about which cartels had been listed as terrorist organizations yesterday. You actually ran from the thread after multiple people called you out on your nonsensical posts. Seems like you're doubling down today.

It's nice that you're consistently pro-murder of innocent people in order to stick it to the government.


You must have missed the part where I condemned the murders. How long will your aide or mother let you stay around and play today.

i.imgur.com
 
2013-08-06 10:29:37 AM  

monoski: dittybopper: durbnpoisn: The flaw in your argument lies in the fact that he had no problem affording the weapons and ammunition.

So, yeah, because he could afford to spend a couple hundred bucks for some guns that he likely bought decades ago, he can afford to put in a $40,000 septic system.

Money or not, you cannot just crap in buckets and dump it around your property. It is a health hazard to anyone who lives downstream from the home.


So bury it in the ground, problem solved.  Why is it that bears, deer, rabbits and raccoons can shiat in the woods, but when it human does it suddenly becomes a biological hazard?
 
2013-08-06 10:29:56 AM  

redmid17: You must have missed the part where I condemned the murders. How long will your aide or mother let you stay around and play today.


Oh I saw. You gave the Chris Rock OJ defense of the murderer. "I don't agree with what he did, but I understand."
 
2013-08-06 10:30:15 AM  

StrangeQ: monoski: dittybopper: durbnpoisn: The flaw in your argument lies in the fact that he had no problem affording the weapons and ammunition.

So, yeah, because he could afford to spend a couple hundred bucks for some guns that he likely bought decades ago, he can afford to put in a $40,000 septic system.

Money or not, you cannot just crap in buckets and dump it around your property. It is a health hazard to anyone who lives downstream from the home.

So bury it in the ground, problem solved.  Why is it that bears, deer, rabbits and raccoons can shiat in the woods, but when it human does it suddenly becomes a biological hazard?


Should one bury in a sealed container, maybe allowing the waste to compost over time?
 
2013-08-06 10:31:40 AM  

PunGent: CarnySaur: "This land is my land
This land is my land
This land is my land
This land is my land
This land is my land
This land is my land
This land was made for only me."

- Woody Guthrie

"This land is my land
It's not your land
I've got a shotgun
You haven't got one
This land was made for me not you..."
This land is private property....



See it rhymes now.
 
2013-08-06 10:32:20 AM  

AverageAmericanGuy: I've been watching Doomsday Preppers a bunch lately and those people are without a doubt the scariest people around. Last night's rerun was some guy whose wife always looked on the verge of tears. When he asked her to go down into the basement bunker he had built under his business, she pleaded with him to let her stay outside. In the next shot, you could see her dashing away around a corner as the dad and other kids were going down into the basement.

Always with the guns and the strategically planted explosives with these people. It's not so much the fact that they are stocking up for what they see are hard times ahead of us. Rather, it's the unfettered distrust they have of their neighbors and society at large.

So this guy shoots up a town meeting. It makes a lot of sense. They've been persecuting him and forcing him to not take the actions he believes he needs to take to prepare himself. The town council has become the enemy. Enemy deserves no mercy. Sweep the leg, Johnny. Get them a body bag.


This guy was NOT a prepper; he was a hoarder who crapped in a bucket, i.e., seriously mentally ill.
 
2013-08-06 10:32:34 AM  

Outrageous Muff: It's telling the people in here that are coming to the defense of someone who thinks shiatting into buckets and storing them is sanitary.


It most definitely can be. Look up composting toilets.
 
2013-08-06 10:32:54 AM  

CreampuffCasperMilktoast: So pretty much the shooter will now get free food, healthcare, shelter, television, education, and more. Take note Baby Boomers, not a bad retirement plan right?


You are closer to the truth than you think.
 
2013-08-06 10:33:35 AM  

airsupport: escherblacksmith: oh the violent songs we knew pre-present day issues
\ "Hi-ho, hi-ho, it's off to school we go, with razor blades and hand grenades . . ."

Mine eyes have seen the glory
of the burning of the school
we have tortured every teacher
we have broken every rule
We're gonna hang the principal
tomorrow after school
Third Grade is marching on!


Glory glory hallelujah
My teacher hit me with a ruler
I met her at the door
With a loaded 44
And she ain't my teacher no more


Kids.

Glory glory hallelujah
My teacher hit me with a ruler
I met her in the hall and revved the chainsaw
And she ain't gonna teach no more.
 
2013-08-06 10:34:04 AM  

Outrageous Muff: redmid17: You must have missed the part where I condemned the murders. How long will your aide or mother let you stay around and play today.

Oh I saw. You gave the Chris Rock OJ defense of the murderer. "I don't agree with what he did, but I understand."


No. He was wrong to shoot the people nor do I understand. It seems like the town is grinding their axe to an douchetastic extent.
 
2013-08-06 10:34:09 AM  

StrangeQ: monoski: dittybopper: durbnpoisn: The flaw in your argument lies in the fact that he had no problem affording the weapons and ammunition.

So, yeah, because he could afford to spend a couple hundred bucks for some guns that he likely bought decades ago, he can afford to put in a $40,000 septic system.

Money or not, you cannot just crap in buckets and dump it around your property. It is a health hazard to anyone who lives downstream from the home.

So bury it in the ground, problem solved.  Why is it that bears, deer, rabbits and raccoons can shiat in the woods, but when it human does it suddenly becomes a biological hazard?


a) because we're meat eaters
b) we're not cool with a big parasite load, like wild animals are
 
2013-08-06 10:35:12 AM  

CreampuffCasperMilktoast: So pretty much the shooter will now get free food, healthcare, shelter, television, education, and more. Take note Baby Boomers, not a bad retirement plan right?


Well it's all good except for the cockroaches. And the rape. Especially the rape.
 
2013-08-06 10:37:03 AM  

Lady J: StrangeQ: monoski: dittybopper: durbnpoisn: The flaw in your argument lies in the fact that he had no problem affording the weapons and ammunition.

So, yeah, because he could afford to spend a couple hundred bucks for some guns that he likely bought decades ago, he can afford to put in a $40,000 septic system.

Money or not, you cannot just crap in buckets and dump it around your property. It is a health hazard to anyone who lives downstream from the home.

So bury it in the ground, problem solved.  Why is it that bears, deer, rabbits and raccoons can shiat in the woods, but when it human does it suddenly becomes a biological hazard?

a) because we're meat eaters
b) we're not cool with a big parasite load, like wild animals are


a) Bears, wolves, raccoons, coyotes, and foxes all stopped eating meat?
b) you mean humans don't have parasites or humans cannot handle parasites?

/don't shiat and bury it in the ground
//that's gross. use a sanitary alternative
 
2013-08-06 10:38:58 AM  

redmid17: No. He was wrong to shoot the people nor do I understand. It seems like the town is grinding their axe to an douchetastic extent.


How dare a local government so swiftly condemn the man's Sh*t Shack, I was going to say sh*thole but it appears he wasn't smart enough to dig a hole to bury his own sh*t, after 18 years! Fight the government, man!
 
2013-08-06 10:40:10 AM  

Outrageous Muff: redmid17: No. He was wrong to shoot the people nor do I understand. It seems like the town is grinding their axe to an douchetastic extent.

How dare a local government so swiftly condemn the man's Sh*t Shack, I was going to say sh*thole but it appears he wasn't smart enough to dig a hole to bury his own sh*t, after 18 years! Fight the government, man!


He has/had a composting toilet. Since you are ill-equipped to look that up, here's a link:   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Composting_toilet

And yes they are legal in PA.
 
2013-08-06 10:47:04 AM  

dittybopper: monoski: dittybopper: durbnpoisn: The flaw in your argument lies in the fact that he had no problem affording the weapons and ammunition.

So, yeah, because he could afford to spend a couple hundred bucks for some guns that he likely bought decades ago, he can afford to put in a $40,000 septic system.

Money or not, you cannot just crap in buckets and dump it around your property. It is a health hazard to anyone who lives downstream from the home.

You don't know he did that.  He claims he had a composting toilet.  That's a completely legit way to handle human waste, and you don't know that he was dumping it around his property.  Not even the town made that claim.


And you don't know he had a composting toilet, though I don't understand why the reporter didn't find out who was in the right about that particular dispute.
 
2013-08-06 10:48:09 AM  

Lady J: StrangeQ: monoski: dittybopper: durbnpoisn: The flaw in your argument lies in the fact that he had no problem affording the weapons and ammunition.

So, yeah, because he could afford to spend a couple hundred bucks for some guns that he likely bought decades ago, he can afford to put in a $40,000 septic system.

Money or not, you cannot just crap in buckets and dump it around your property. It is a health hazard to anyone who lives downstream from the home.

So bury it in the ground, problem solved.  Why is it that bears, deer, rabbits and raccoons can shiat in the woods, but when it human does it suddenly becomes a biological hazard?

a) because we're meat eaters
b) we're not cool with a big parasite load, like wild animals are


You missed an important part.

Outhouses, while frowned upon these days, were an appropriate solution to the problem, as are composting toilets today.  The murderer in question claims he had a composting toilet, and that the "feces in a bucket" thing was, pardon the expression, crap:

Newell said he cannot afford septic hookup fees, uses a composting toilet and has never put human fecal matter in anything other than that toilet, but the township still requires him to get a septic permit.

Now, maybe the guy was lying, maybe the town was lying.  Either way, it would have been possible to work with him to come up with a way to satisfy both the need for adequate sanitation within his low fixed income.  It doesn't sound like they wanted to do that.

As I've said, that's no reason to kill innocent people (or even the not-so-innocent), but it does seem as if he was backed into a corner from which he had very few options.  At the end, he was living in his 1984 Pontiac Fiero, which seems cruel and inhuman.
 
2013-08-06 10:55:16 AM  

redmid17: /don't shiat and bury it in the ground
//that's gross. use a sanitary alternative


Actually, that *IS* a sanitary alternative when done correctly.  And it's not hard to do correctly.
 
2013-08-06 11:01:15 AM  

BSABSVR: dittybopper: monoski: dittybopper: durbnpoisn: The flaw in your argument lies in the fact that he had no problem affording the weapons and ammunition.

So, yeah, because he could afford to spend a couple hundred bucks for some guns that he likely bought decades ago, he can afford to put in a $40,000 septic system.

Money or not, you cannot just crap in buckets and dump it around your property. It is a health hazard to anyone who lives downstream from the home.

You don't know he did that.  He claims he had a composting toilet.  That's a completely legit way to handle human waste, and you don't know that he was dumping it around his property.  Not even the town made that claim.

And you don't know he had a composting toilet, though I don't understand why the reporter didn't find out who was in the right about that particular dispute.


The township said he needed a permit for his composting toilet, which implies that he actually had one and that they knew that, but it's not 100% certain that is the objective truth of the matter.
 
2013-08-06 11:01:59 AM  

dittybopper: redmid17: /don't shiat and bury it in the ground
//that's gross. use a sanitary alternative

Actually, that *IS* a sanitary alternative when done correctly.  And it's not hard to do correctly.


A composting toilet would be a sanitary alternative. I meant don't literally dig only a hole to shiat it and then cover it up. That's gross.
 
2013-08-06 11:12:55 AM  

redmid17: dittybopper: redmid17: /don't shiat and bury it in the ground
//that's gross. use a sanitary alternative

Actually, that *IS* a sanitary alternative when done correctly.  And it's not hard to do correctly.

A composting toilet would be a sanitary alternative. I meant don't literally dig only a hole to shiat it and then cover it up. That's gross.


You know how I know you've never been out of the city or gone camping?
 
2013-08-06 11:14:41 AM  

Zeb Hesselgresser: HotWingConspiracy: Spade: Maybe the government shouldn't have tried to run a guy off his land through an expensive regulatory scheme?

Small town in NEPA so you can assume it is corrupt as hell.

According to previous reports, Newell got a building permit from the township to have a storage structure on the property, but then built a dwelling without first getting a zoning permit or certificate of occupancy from the township.

Over the years, authorities have responded to Newell's property as a result of neighbor complaints and on one occasion in 2009 found human fecal matter in buckets there, according to previous reports in the Pocono Record.

The township determined he was improperly disposing of sewage with no septic system or permit for one.

Yeah they totally deserved to die for crossing this asshole.

If the hillbilly wants to shiat in a bucket, let him. It's rural rock patch at the base of the Pocono Mts. Not even decent farm country. Shale and conifers.

They have a saying around there, Leave these old kooks be, or you might get shot.


Perfect argument for culling gun owners.
 
2013-08-06 11:15:18 AM  

durbnpoisn: No, actually, they weren't wrong. I DNRTA, but I watched the news this morning. Did you see what that guy's property looked like. The council in question was WELL within their jurisdiction to have that property condemned. If he could take the time to go and shoot a bunch of people up, he could have taken the time to clean his damn property - maybe even have a septic system installed.


THANK YOU. Doesn't anyone give a damn that this guy had been living in an illegal structure on that property for 18 years and CRAPPING IN BUCKETS? For fark's sake...if that doesn't warrant condemnation I don't know what does.  Everyone has their panties in a wad over gun laws...this guy was a wacko regardless.  He probably would have done this some other, possibly more horrifying way, AKA homegrown explosives, if he didn't have a gun.
 
2013-08-06 11:19:36 AM  

joness0154: redmid17: dittybopper: redmid17: /don't shiat and bury it in the ground
//that's gross. use a sanitary alternative

Actually, that *IS* a sanitary alternative when done correctly.  And it's not hard to do correctly.

A composting toilet would be a sanitary alternative. I meant don't literally dig only a hole to shiat it and then cover it up. That's gross.

You know how I know you've never been out of the city or gone camping?


Context is a difficult thing to see, but we are talking about a space where people live and a long-term occupation of said land. Pissing in the woods or shiatting and wiping with a leaf is fine when you're camping. It's not when you have to worry about water sanitation and other local regulations.

However you can come turkey or deer hunting with me this fall if you're going to be in Wisconsin or Indiana. Drop me a line.
 
2013-08-06 11:21:05 AM  

DrewFL: durbnpoisn: No, actually, they weren't wrong. I DNRTA, but I watched the news this morning. Did you see what that guy's property looked like. The council in question was WELL within their jurisdiction to have that property condemned. If he could take the time to go and shoot a bunch of people up, he could have taken the time to clean his damn property - maybe even have a septic system installed.

THANK YOU. Doesn't anyone give a damn that this guy had been living in an illegal structure on that property for 18 years and CRAPPING IN BUCKETS? For fark's sake...if that doesn't warrant condemnation I don't know what does.  Everyone has their panties in a wad over gun laws...this guy was a wacko regardless.  He probably would have done this some other, possibly more horrifying way, AKA homegrown explosives, if he didn't have a gun.


Ah someone else who hasn't read anything else about the topic and didn't even skim over the thread:

http://m.poconorecord.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20130610/NEWS/3 06 100327&template=wapart
 
2013-08-06 11:21:58 AM  

redmid17: dittybopper: redmid17: /don't shiat and bury it in the ground
//that's gross. use a sanitary alternative

Actually, that *IS* a sanitary alternative when done correctly.  And it's not hard to do correctly.

A composting toilet would be a sanitary alternative. I meant don't literally dig only a hole to shiat it and then cover it up. That's gross.


Depends on how deep the hole is.  Nature can take care of it quite well if you dig a decent pit, and make sure to cover it afterwards.  As I recall from my camping days, a 6" hole was adequate for a single "session".   You obviously don't want to do it right next to a water source, though.

It might seem gross, but biologically, there's little danger if done correctly.
 
2013-08-06 11:23:50 AM  

escherblacksmith: PunGent: CarnySaur: "This land is my land
This land is my land
This land is my land
This land is my land
This land is my land
This land is my land
This land was made for only me."

- Woody Guthrie

"This land is my land
It's not your land
I've got a shotgun
You haven't got one
This land was made for me not you..."

- my property law professor

As I recall from being a precocious youngster in the 70s . . .

"This land is my land
This land is not your land
I've got a shotgun
and you haven't got one
So you better get off,
or I'll blast you head off,
This land was made for only me . . ."

There were other lyrics, but that is all I recall . . .

\\ oh the violent songs we knew pre-present day issues
\ "Hi-ho, hi-ho, it's off to school we go, with razor blades and hand grenades . . ."


"Hi-ho, hi-ho, it's home from school we go, with razor cuts and blown-up butts...."
 
2013-08-06 11:24:52 AM  
Hey, when that old man tells you to get off his lawn, you GET THE FARK OFF OF HIS LAWN!
 
2013-08-06 11:25:02 AM  
Redmid17, supporting murderers expressing their "freedoms" since 2005.
 
2013-08-06 11:25:03 AM  

dittybopper: redmid17: dittybopper: redmid17: /don't shiat and bury it in the ground
//that's gross. use a sanitary alternative

Actually, that *IS* a sanitary alternative when done correctly.  And it's not hard to do correctly.

A composting toilet would be a sanitary alternative. I meant don't literally dig only a hole to shiat it and then cover it up. That's gross.

Depends on how deep the hole is.  Nature can take care of it quite well if you dig a decent pit, and make sure to cover it afterwards.  As I recall from my camping days, a 6" hole was adequate for a single "session".   You obviously don't want to do it right next to a water source, though.

It might seem gross, but biologically, there's little danger if done correctly.


No for sure it's fine as a one-off. I was posting in context of continued habitation of the aforementioned property. I don't know anyone who's installed a composting toilet to go camping in the woods.
 
2013-08-06 11:25:44 AM  

Outrageous Muff: Redmid17, supporting murderers expressing their "freedoms" since 2005.


Wow you are almost as bad as Whidbey, but your reading comprehension is far, far worse.
 
2013-08-06 11:26:50 AM  
I think a guy crazy enough to shoot up a town hall is also crazy enough to shiat in a bucket and claim it was a composting toilet.

I want to know what the neighbor complaints were about.  Did he threaten them, did he shoot guns onto their property, was there a far-reaching smell?  Or were they just complaining about his shack harming their home price?  Since the guy is provably crazy, I'm inclined to give the neighbors and town council the benefit of the doubt.
 
2013-08-06 11:27:13 AM  

LasersHurt: dittybopper: durbnpoisn: The flaw in your argument lies in the fact that he had no problem affording the weapons and ammunition.

So, yeah, because he could afford to spend a couple hundred bucks for some guns that he likely bought decades ago, he can afford to put in a $40,000 septic system.

Jesus christ what does a septic system cost where you live holy shiat...

While I am sympathetic to this guy too, he had many many many years to try to improve things, too.


At my work place we just put in three septic systems.  Total cost was maybe 24-30 grand.
 
2013-08-06 11:28:03 AM  

redmid17: Wow you are almost as bad as Whidbey, but your reading comprehension is far, far worse.


So far you've done nothing but support the argument of the murderer that the government didn't have the right to demand he clean up his property and follow the law in the township that says if you have a residential structure you need a septic system.
 
2013-08-06 11:28:21 AM  

redmid17: Context is a difficult thing to see, but we are talking about a space where people live and a long-term occupation of said land. Pissing in the woods or shiatting and wiping with a leaf is fine when you're camping. It's not when you have to worry about water sanitation and other local regulations.


This is the context we are talking about, a largely uninhabited wooded area that is in a valley and lower than all the other homes in the area:


https://maps.google.com/maps?q=flyte+road+ross+pa&ie=UTF-8&hl=en
 
2013-08-06 11:29:14 AM  
Shooting up a town meeting does not lend credibility to a claim of mistreatment.
 
2013-08-06 11:30:35 AM  

Satanic_Hamster: At my work place we just put in three septic systems.  Total cost was maybe 24-30 grand.


You think the guy could afford $8k to $10k?  I don't.
 
2013-08-06 11:30:43 AM  
This proves that in this country, it is ILLEGAL to be poor. It is even MORE ILLEGAL to be a poor property owner because the elites will harass, intimidate and bully you into submission.
 
2013-08-06 11:32:34 AM  

redmid17: Outrageous Muff: redmid17: No. He was wrong to shoot the people nor do I understand. It seems like the town is grinding their axe to an douchetastic extent.

How dare a local government so swiftly condemn the man's Sh*t Shack, I was going to say sh*thole but it appears he wasn't smart enough to dig a hole to bury his own sh*t, after 18 years! Fight the government, man!

He has/had a composting toilet. Since you are ill-equipped to look that up, here's a link:   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Composting_toilet

And yes they are legal in PA.


No. He *CLAIMED* he has/had a composting toilet.

He also felt shooting randomly through a wall where he held a grievance with *some* of the people in attendance (unless literally everyone in the town was conspiring against him?) was an alright method of conflict resolution.

Perhaps we should not take his judgements at face value.
 
2013-08-06 11:32:36 AM  

Outrageous Muff: redmid17: Wow you are almost as bad as Whidbey, but your reading comprehension is far, far worse.

So far you've done nothing but support the argument of the murderer that the government didn't have the right to demand he clean up his property and follow the law in the township that says if you have a residential structure you need a septic system.


No I said the government had had an axe to grind. They falsified his permit documentation. They botched his culvert installation 1) by allowing it and 2) by explicitly dictating out-of-spec requirements, through either incompetence or malice. I have also repeatedly condemned his violence.

The township doesn't really have a say in sewage requirements. It's state run in PA. Either way, a septic tank is not required. Look up requirements for sewage disposal and the subsection calling out composting toilets.

Isn't half-day kindergarten almost over?
 
2013-08-06 11:33:04 AM  

Frizbone: This proves that in this country, it is ILLEGAL to be poor. It is even MORE ILLEGAL to be a poor property owner because the elites will harass, intimidate and bully you into submission.


No, it shows that it's illegal to buy a piece of property, lie to the government that you're building a business there and instead build a "home", then spend 18 years saying you're above basic zoning laws.
 
2013-08-06 11:35:40 AM  

redmid17: No I said the government had had an axe to grind. They falsified his permit documentation. They botched his culvert installation 1) by allowing it and 2) by explicitly dictating out-of-spec requirements, through either incompetence or malice. I have also repeatedly condemned his violence.

The township doesn't really have a say in sewage requirements. It's state run in PA. Either way, a septic tank is not required. Look up requirements for sewage disposal and the subsection calling out composting toilets.


Prove the falsified documents. Prove they knowingly botched his culvert work. Then show me where the state of PA controls septic instillation for local government zoning laws.
 
2013-08-06 11:36:18 AM  

redmid17: No for sure it's fine as a one-off. I was posting in context of continued habitation of the aforementioned property. I don't know anyone who's installed a composting toilet to go camping in the woods.


Actually, you *CAN* get them for that kind of use.   Here's a composting toilet on Etsy, and it uses a 5 gallon bucket.  So perhaps both the town and the murderer were right:  He's using a composting toilet that uses a 5 gallon bucket as a temporary waste storage, and he's got a compost pile for when that is full.
 
2013-08-06 11:36:55 AM  

Felgraf: redmid17: Outrageous Muff: redmid17: No. He was wrong to shoot the people nor do I understand. It seems like the town is grinding their axe to an douchetastic extent.

How dare a local government so swiftly condemn the man's Sh*t Shack, I was going to say sh*thole but it appears he wasn't smart enough to dig a hole to bury his own sh*t, after 18 years! Fight the government, man!

He has/had a composting toilet. Since you are ill-equipped to look that up, here's a link:   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Composting_toilet

And yes they are legal in PA.

No. He *CLAIMED* he has/had a composting toilet.

He also felt shooting randomly through a wall where he held a grievance with *some* of the people in attendance (unless literally everyone in the town was conspiring against him?) was an alright method of conflict resolution.

Perhaps we should not take his judgements at face value.


Well he was right about the culvert and the falsified building permit, both townships actions. Pardon me if I'm predisposed to someone who wasn't caught lying in court.
 
2013-08-06 11:37:32 AM  

dittybopper: redmid17: No for sure it's fine as a one-off. I was posting in context of continued habitation of the aforementioned property. I don't know anyone who's installed a composting toilet to go camping in the woods.

Actually, you *CAN* get them for that kind of use.   Here's a composting toilet on Etsy, and it uses a 5 gallon bucket.  So perhaps both the town and the murderer were right:  He's using a composting toilet that uses a 5 gallon bucket as a temporary waste storage, and he's got a compost pile for when that is full.


The more you know.
 
2013-08-06 11:41:16 AM  

Outrageous Muff: redmid17: No I said the government had had an axe to grind. They falsified his permit documentation. They botched his culvert installation 1) by allowing it and 2) by explicitly dictating out-of-spec requirements, through either incompetence or malice. I have also repeatedly condemned his violence.

The township doesn't really have a say in sewage requirements. It's state run in PA. Either way, a septic tank is not required. Look up requirements for sewage disposal and the subsection calling out composting toilets.

Prove the falsified documents. Prove they knowingly botched his culvert work. Then show me where the state of PA controls septic instillation for local government zoning laws.


http://m.poconorecord.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20130610/NEWS/3 06 100327&template=wapart


http://www.elibrary.dep.state.pa.us/dsweb/Get/Document-52064/Act%205 37 %20of%201965.pdf
 
2013-08-06 11:42:15 AM  

Nina_Hartley's_Ass: Shooting up a town meeting does not lend credibility to a claim of mistreatment.


Well, at that point, what did he really have to lose?

Seems to me, in the final analysis, this guy just wanted to be left alone.  He was pushing sixty years old, unable to work and on a fixed income.  How many years did he have left?  Ten, maybe fifteen?   The situation was going to resolve itself eventually.  It's not like the guy was in his mid-30s.

Still no excuse for killing people.
 
2013-08-06 11:44:07 AM  
I'm fascinated by the people in this thread who are are mooning over this guy as though he were some hybrid of Samuel Adams and one of the kids from One Direction.  If his name had be D'Tyreke Newell, those same people would be screaming about irresponsible people buying what they can't afford.

He wanted a place to live and I get that, but he didn't think about the maintenance cost of owning shiat.  Once he started fighting with what sounds like a vindictive Town government (over what appears to be trying to build a dwelling under storage unit codes to save $), it just escalated.  He got hosed by DEP, sure, but that was icing on the cake.  He was behind on his taxes, and regardless of his pooping situation, he was continuing to use his land as a dumping site.

There's no good guys here, and just because someone happens to be near Town hall during a public meeting doesn't make them a bad guy.


/For those of you cheering him on, put up or shut up.
 
2013-08-06 12:00:09 PM  

KrispyKritter: Wish i had the balls the Link land owner does. My Mom's house where I was raised, along with 4 neighbors houses are months away from being unsellable and devalued (yet their taxes will not go down) thanks to the town council members wisdom.
Those 5 houses are on a short hilly street. In the back yards is a fence running perpendicular

Our family lived there over 50 years.


And yet you never learned what perpendicular means...

/or, get a reverse mortgage, stop paying taxes, let the city and mortgage company fight it out over the house ;)
 
2013-08-06 12:07:22 PM  
Small town politics is some serious shiat!
 
2013-08-06 12:08:36 PM  
Local government is the worst, that's for sure. I would never shoot anyone on the town council but the biggest annoyance by government in my life has been at the hands of local government. Giving these kinds of people more power is the last thing you want to do, give me giant faceless bureaucracy over local town douchebags anyday.
 
2013-08-06 12:16:09 PM  

BSABSVR: He was behind on his taxes,


Are you sure?  I saw an article mentioning he was on a payment plan, but that doesn't necessarily imply he was in arrears.  My father is on a payment plan because his house is paid for, so the taxes no longer are rolled into his mortgage payment, and it's easier to pay the money to the town on a monthly or semi-monthly basis than to have to cough it up in a lump sum once a year.
 
2013-08-06 12:17:06 PM  

StrangeQ: monoski: dittybopper: durbnpoisn: The flaw in your argument lies in the fact that he had no problem affording the weapons and ammunition.

So, yeah, because he could afford to spend a couple hundred bucks for some guns that he likely bought decades ago, he can afford to put in a $40,000 septic system.

Money or not, you cannot just crap in buckets and dump it around your property. It is a health hazard to anyone who lives downstream from the home.

So bury it in the ground, problem solved.  Why is it that bears, deer, rabbits and raccoons can shiat in the woods, but when it human does it suddenly becomes a biological hazard?


Remind me not to move next door to you. Sewer and Septic systems are for civilized people.
 
2013-08-06 12:18:45 PM  

dittybopper: Nina_Hartley's_Ass: Shooting up a town meeting does not lend credibility to a claim of mistreatment.

Well, at that point, what did he really have to lose?

Seems to me, in the final analysis, this guy just wanted to be left alone.  He was pushing sixty years old, unable to work and on a fixed income.  How many years did he have left?  Ten, maybe fifteen?   The situation was going to resolve itself eventually.  It's not like the guy was in his mid-30s.

Still no excuse for killing people.


Hey, I'm the same age as he is and I'd like to be left alone, too. I have three properties I own and manage. I'm not rich. I don't own more than I can afford to own. If my septic system goes belly up I have to get a new one or I can't live here anymore.  Seriously, people biatching constantly about people getting mortgages for houses they can't afford are now biatching because people don't understand that laws don't discriminate based on whims and eccentricities. I swear, most of you who are complaining are either renting or living in mom's basement and have no idea how property ownership works.

The guy SAYS he had a composting toilet, but even if he does, if he didn't get a permit for it, it has to go. It has to be inspected and verified. It is your responsibility to know what you need to get permits for and what you don't. They found buckets of shiat at his house, you don't let buckets of shiat sit around before you put them in the composter, that's not how it works. So what if they were 5 gallon buckets? The county said they were raw sewage. And "falsified" the documents? They didn't falsify them, you can NOT live in what local governments call "sheds." It is NOT legal. There is a legal definition for a shed, and it is NOT to be used a dwelling. If you want to convert a shed to a dwelling, you need to get permits for water, septic, electricity and so on and then build to code.

Jesus! I can't believe the stupid in this thread.
 
2013-08-06 12:27:20 PM  
dittybopper:

Also, you are allowed to live in a shed with minimum stuff in it.   People do it all the time.

These are not sheds by definition. Why don't you show me on that Wikipedia page where it says you can move and install and live in one of these small houses without getting permits? You CANT.

Unlike you, I have actual experience with this. I was given free and moved three very modest historic buildings to a lot I own. I had to get permits to move the buildings, and I had to get permits to make the house inhabitable, meaning I had to get a water connection of some sort (county or well), a sanitation system of some sort (sewer isn't available here so I got a septic system, since just a composting toilet doesn't take care of gray water), electric, plumbing, hurricane tie-downs, minimum elevation requirements, and other kinds of things the county dictates. I had to supply surveys to the county and make sure the dwellings met zoning requirements for setbacks. I had to indicate the dimensions of each structure and what it was intended for. Two of the structures were designated as SHEDS by law, and SHEDS are not inhabitable. I can convert them to dwellings but I would need to go through the same thing: permits, drawings, hookups, everything. You have no farking idea what you are talking about.
 
2013-08-06 12:32:39 PM  
He certainly looks the part of the insane junk-collecting, hot-tempered lunatic.
 
2013-08-06 12:43:02 PM  

LasersHurt: KrispyKritter: Wish i had the balls the Link land owner does.

You wish you had the balls to kill innocent people, eh?

StrangeQ: honestly they got exactly what was coming to them.

Has everyone lost their farking minds or what


Yes.  Farking gun nut freedom lovin murrrricans can KISS MY LILY WHITE FAT ASS

NO ONE deserves to be shot over some crap like this, and those of you cheering it, I hope one day someone you love gets the same treatment, shot by some crazy person because they followed the law and did their jobs.

Fark all you nuts.
 
2013-08-06 12:53:00 PM  

dittybopper: durbnpoisn: The flaw in your argument lies in the fact that he had no problem affording the weapons and ammunition.

So, yeah, because he could afford to spend a couple hundred bucks for some guns that he likely bought decades ago, he can afford to put in a $40,000 septic system.


How about a chemical toilet? There are less expensive means of disposing of human waste that don't entail just leaving buckets of shiat all over the place.
 
2013-08-06 12:54:20 PM  

Spade: Oddly enough, if you read the guy's facebook page...he wasn't right wing. Well, except on guns.


Methinks he was talking about you. But that's just my reading.
 
2013-08-06 12:54:21 PM  

Doom MD: So my concealed carry is about to drop. Should I spring for an Springfield Xdm or get a 1911? I'm in NY, so I'm limited to 10 round mags (so I need big bullets that pack a lot of wallop).


1911....they have the single stack magazine that makes the grip nice and svelte and very easy to handle....plus they are just so well balanced and intuitive to use.
(The xd is nice, but why buy that frame if you can't fill it to its potential)

/these shootings suck, condolences to the families and victims.
//would like more sensible measures in place, but with the amount of guns out there we'd be closing the barn door after the herd of horses has already ran off.
 
2013-08-06 12:54:35 PM  

Satanic_Hamster: LasersHurt: dittybopper: durbnpoisn: The flaw in your argument lies in the fact that he had no problem affording the weapons and ammunition.

So, yeah, because he could afford to spend a couple hundred bucks for some guns that he likely bought decades ago, he can afford to put in a $40,000 septic system.

Jesus christ what does a septic system cost where you live holy shiat...

While I am sympathetic to this guy too, he had many many many years to try to improve things, too.

At my work place we just put in three septic systems.  Total cost was maybe 24-30 grand.


Price here in Mass. varies considerably...I've seen residential property on Cape Cod that's at least $40k for septic, because it's hard to get the sandy soil to perc test properly.  This guy here, if he's far enough in the boonies, could've also been expensive because you might have to haul in equipment, etc.

Not approving the shooting, just saying.
 
2013-08-06 12:55:03 PM  
Why can't people seem to be able to hold two non-mutually exclusive ideas in their mind at once?

Both sides were wrong. The Council was heavy-handed in trying to deal with an eyesore and the Codger was wrong to kill poeple over a property/financial dispute.

Which side was more wrong? I guess it depends on whether or not you belive shotting people is more serious than forcing an old man off his property and selling it to pay for the cleanup. Naturally down the road there would have been a developer who paid next to nothing and turned the property into money which would find its way to the Council members.

Even if they were out to make money off of their civic duty that still doesn't excuse his actions, just like his actions don't justify stealing from a man who had to poop into buckets.
 
2013-08-06 12:56:10 PM  

Deep Contact: Council can sit behind bullet proof glass and let pissed off citizens shoot at them all day to let off steam.


Blues brothers democracy!
I like it.
 
2013-08-06 12:57:50 PM  

Ed Grubermann: dittybopper: durbnpoisn: The flaw in your argument lies in the fact that he had no problem affording the weapons and ammunition.

So, yeah, because he could afford to spend a couple hundred bucks for some guns that he likely bought decades ago, he can afford to put in a $40,000 septic system.

How about a chemical toilet? There are less expensive means of disposing of human waste that don't entail just leaving buckets of shiat all over the place.


According to the shooter, he had a composting toilet and the "poop buckets" were actually full of paint and water.
 
2013-08-06 12:59:02 PM  

Satan's Bunny Slippers: LasersHurt: KrispyKritter: Wish i had the balls the Link land owner does.

You wish you had the balls to kill innocent people, eh?

StrangeQ: honestly they got exactly what was coming to them.

Has everyone lost their farking minds or what

Yes.  Farking gun nut freedom lovin murrrricans can KISS MY LILY WHITE FAT ASS

NO ONE deserves to be shot over some crap like this, and those of you cheering it, I hope one day someone you love gets the same treatment, shot by some crazy person because they followed the law and did their jobs.

Fark all you nuts.


Just to play devil's advocate here, "following the law and doing your job", in and of itself...hasn't washed as an excuse since Nuremberg.

There's got to be underlying justice, as well.  Not to Godwin the thread, but plenty of the Nazis' mass-murdering?
Perfectly legal.  They'd made it so.  In D&D terms, you might think of them as Lawful Evil.

Now, no idea what happened here, but it's not automatically the case that the victims were innocent.  Quite likely, but not automatic.
 
2013-08-06 01:02:10 PM  
dittybopper:According to him, he has a composting toilet, which is a sanitation system.

And yet, there were complaints of buckets of human waste on his property.
 
2013-08-06 01:02:28 PM  

Headso: Local government is the worst, that's for sure. I would never shoot anyone on the town council but the biggest annoyance by government in my life has been at the hands of local government. Giving these kinds of people more power is the last thing you want to do, give me giant faceless bureaucracy over local town douchebags anyday.


As an HOA guy, all I can say is "Phew, at least we're not taking flak over THIS one..."

Must be how Muslims feel whenever there's an IRA bombing...
 
2013-08-06 01:02:44 PM  
I don't care if he had a composting toilet, or an iphone, or a computer, or whether he was broke or rich, or whether the town council mistreated him or not.

He is a murderer.  He murdered because of some material possessions (and/or because he is insane).

How can anyone defend an insane murderer?

Are you all insane too?
 
2013-08-06 01:06:08 PM  

DrewFL: durbnpoisn: No, actually, they weren't wrong. I DNRTA, but I watched the news this morning. Did you see what that guy's property looked like. The council in question was WELL within their jurisdiction to have that property condemned. If he could take the time to go and shoot a bunch of people up, he could have taken the time to clean his damn property - maybe even have a septic system installed.

THANK YOU. Doesn't anyone give a damn that this guy had been living in an illegal structure on that property for 18 years and CRAPPING IN BUCKETS? For fark's sake...if that doesn't warrant condemnation I don't know what does.  Everyone has their panties in a wad over gun laws...this guy was a wacko regardless.  He probably would have done this some other, possibly more horrifying way, AKA homegrown explosives, if he didn't have a gun.


Honestly, the illegal structure doesn't bother me...if nobody else can see it, and there's no kids going to get hurt if it collapses...who cares?    If it falls down on HIM, score one for Darwin...let him fight with his insurance company about it.
Doesn't sound like an urban area where if my house falls over, it's liable to land on someone...THERE, you need more serious zoning.

Afa the crapping thing goes, if he keeps it out of the local water supply, and the neighbors can't smell it, it's also fine by me.

/grew up with outhouses in Maine
 
2013-08-06 01:07:14 PM  
As usual, the Fark Constitutional Scholars are big on rights but against responsibility.
 
2013-08-06 01:07:20 PM  

PunGent: Satan's Bunny Slippers: LasersHurt: KrispyKritter: Wish i had the balls the Link land owner does.

You wish you had the balls to kill innocent people, eh?

StrangeQ: honestly they got exactly what was coming to them.

Has everyone lost their farking minds or what

Yes.  Farking gun nut freedom lovin murrrricans can KISS MY LILY WHITE FAT ASS

NO ONE deserves to be shot over some crap like this, and those of you cheering it, I hope one day someone you love gets the same treatment, shot by some crazy person because they followed the law and did their jobs.

Fark all you nuts.

Just to play devil's advocate here, "following the law and doing your job", in and of itself...hasn't washed as an excuse since Nuremberg.

There's got to be underlying justice, as well.  Not to Godwin the thread, but plenty of the Nazis' mass-murdering?
Perfectly legal.  They'd made it so.  In D&D terms, you might think of them as Lawful Evil.

Now, no idea what happened here, but it's not automatically the case that the victims were innocent.  Quite likely, but not automatic.


I understand what you're saying, but I don't think the council members wrote the laws they were enforcing, (however unfairly) is what I meant.  No, they aren't "innocent" in the truest of terms, but they sure as hell didn't deserve to be shot.

No, you cannot haz the Nazi defense.  No laws were passed specifically to make what they were doing legal only for this instance.  :-)
 
2013-08-06 01:08:32 PM  

CreampuffCasperMilktoast: So pretty much the shooter will now get free food, healthcare, shelter, television, education, and more. Take note Baby Boomers, not a bad retirement plan right?


Nutraloaf, an alcoholic EMT, a roach-infested cell, whatever Bubba wants to watch on basic cable, and a used Bible are no way to go through life, son...
 
2013-08-06 01:08:45 PM  
Is there evidence that he specifically targeted those on the council that caused his grief? It sounds like he was shooting blindly through walls, which meant he didn't give a shiat about killing innocent people. Fark him, and fark all the people trying to turn him into some martyr that stood up to the big nasty government.
 
2013-08-06 01:09:51 PM  

LowbrowDeluxe: On topic, crazy old dude was living in a shiathole he didn't have permits for.  Town had two choices when it was clear he was a crazy old coot without the means or ability to actually fix it himself if the place was that big a problem to the rest of the town, hold a barn raising and build him a new actually decent place to live and try to take care of him in his declining years, or try to force him off 'his' land.  One of those choices was moderately expensive and took effort, the other was crazy-old-coot-last-straw and ended up with a couple people dead and 5 more shot and wounded.


Let's say he was your neighbor. Would you be ok with your tax dollars going towards building him a new home (if "the town" is doing this, I assume you mean the town government). Or, would you be at his house putting in dozens/hundreds of ours of free labor to help him? For most people the answers would be "hell no". Welcome to America.
 
2013-08-06 01:10:06 PM  

CarnySaur: "This land is my land
This land is my land
This land is my land
This land is my land
This land is my land
This land is my land
This land was made for only me."

- Woody Guthrie


"This land is your land,
This land is my land.
I take all your land
Now it's all MY land."
 
2013-08-06 01:10:16 PM  

Ed Grubermann: dittybopper:According to him, he has a composting toilet, which is a sanitation system.

And yet, there were complaints of buckets of human waste on his property.


GIS the guy's house. Poop in a bucket was only one small part of the problem.
 
2013-08-06 01:43:35 PM  

Satan's Bunny Slippers: PunGent: Satan's Bunny Slippers: LasersHurt: KrispyKritter: Wish i had the balls the Link land owner does.

You wish you had the balls to kill innocent people, eh?

StrangeQ: honestly they got exactly what was coming to them.

Has everyone lost their farking minds or what

Yes.  Farking gun nut freedom lovin murrrricans can KISS MY LILY WHITE FAT ASS

NO ONE deserves to be shot over some crap like this, and those of you cheering it, I hope one day someone you love gets the same treatment, shot by some crazy person because they followed the law and did their jobs.

Fark all you nuts.

Just to play devil's advocate here, "following the law and doing your job", in and of itself...hasn't washed as an excuse since Nuremberg.

There's got to be underlying justice, as well.  Not to Godwin the thread, but plenty of the Nazis' mass-murdering?
Perfectly legal.  They'd made it so.  In D&D terms, you might think of them as Lawful Evil.

Now, no idea what happened here, but it's not automatically the case that the victims were innocent.  Quite likely, but not automatic.

I understand what you're saying, but I don't think the council members wrote the laws they were enforcing, (however unfairly) is what I meant.  No, they aren't "innocent" in the truest of terms, but they sure as hell didn't deserve to be shot.

No, you cannot haz the Nazi defense.  No laws were passed specifically to make what they were doing legal only for this instance.  :-)


Probably not...but that doesn't mean existing laws weren't enforced selectively.

Wouldn't be the first time someone with buddies on the zoning commission wanted property cheap, is all I'm saying.
 
2013-08-06 01:55:23 PM  
PunGent:

Probably not...but that doesn't mean existing laws weren't enforced selectively.

Wouldn't be the first time someone with buddies on the zoning commission wanted property cheap, is all I'm saying.


I'm agreeing with you.

Just still not worth shooting people over.  It's stuff.  I lost all my stuff to my ex.  All of it, including my house, my clothes, my car, my dishes, my cats.  I didn't shoot him.  Thought about it, could have (had access to guns), some people say I should  have.  But I didn't.  No matter how selectively or right out in your face-ly the laws were being enforced, crazy old hoarder guy had no right to shoot them.
 
2013-08-06 01:55:42 PM  

PunGent: Wouldn't be the first time someone with buddies on the zoning commission wanted property cheap, is all I'm saying.


Yeah, that 17 year plan worked out great.
 
2013-08-06 01:56:07 PM  

Satan's Bunny Slippers: No, they aren't "innocent" in the truest of terms, but they sure as hell didn't deserve to be shot.


I dunno. They were on a town council.
 
2013-08-06 01:56:56 PM  

PunGent: CreampuffCasperMilktoast: So pretty much the shooter will now get free food, healthcare, shelter, television, education, and more. Take note Baby Boomers, not a bad retirement plan right?

Nutraloaf, an alcoholic EMT, a roach-infested cell, whatever Bubba wants to watch on basic cable, and a used Bible are no way to go through life, son...


The Monroe County Correctional Facility, a peaceful rural setting, with an extremely sanitary kitchen that was run by Aramark, and recently replaced by a competitor which apparently has made people happier, since there is a new menu and larger portions. They've hired a private health care firm, which "either meets or exceeds standards."   http://www.privateci.org/pennsylvania.htm  .....evidently the women have a decent choir http://www.youtube.com/wa tch?v=hV2gJOpf51o ...and let's face it, older folks such as the shooter might like a little more physical contact, perhaps even love from Bubba could make him feel special.
 
2013-08-06 02:04:36 PM  
 Rockne Newell had a donation page on GiveForward, he needed $10,000 by Oct 19th of last year and it looks like he managed to raise $0.
 
2013-08-06 02:05:09 PM  

dodecahedron: These are not sheds by definition. Why don't you show me on that Wikipedia page where it says you can move and install and live in one of these small houses without getting permits? You CANT.


Actually, so long as it has wheels on it, yes you can.  Because it's not a building.  It's a vehicle.
 
2013-08-06 02:14:32 PM  

vudukungfu: Maybe the governor could have offered him some money for the property. It worked out pretty good in Vermont.


Sane is, if the crazy old farts property is an eyesore and he wont or can't clean it up, city gets a court order, sends city works in to clean it up and then slaps a lien on the property, there problem solved.
 
2013-08-06 02:20:31 PM  

Ed Grubermann: dittybopper:According to him, he has a composting toilet, which is a sanitation system.

And yet, there were complaints of buckets of human waste on his property.


Did you not read the post where I said it could be a case where both are correct:  There are portable composting toilets that use 5 gallon buckets for waste collection, for use in a compost pile.

Apparently, you take your dump, cover the material with 6" of compost like sawdust or other like material, and repeat.  When the bucket is full, you empty it into the compost heap.  The action of heat from decomposition kills the pathogens in the feces, so by the time it's ready for use, it's perfectly safe.

Now, this guy may or may not have been doing that, but it's not totally out of the question that it might be safe and relatively sanitary to use buckets for that.

/Wouldn't do that myself.
//Would dig a nice, big pit latrine and let nature to the work for me.
 
2013-08-06 02:22:44 PM  

Satan's Bunny Slippers: PunGent:

Probably not...but that doesn't mean existing laws weren't enforced selectively.

Wouldn't be the first time someone with buddies on the zoning commission wanted property cheap, is all I'm saying.

I'm agreeing with you.

Just still not worth shooting people over.  It's stuff.  I lost all my stuff to my ex.  All of it, including my house, my clothes, my car, my dishes, my cats.  I didn't shoot him.  Thought about it, could have (had access to guns), some people say I should  have.  But I didn't.  No matter how selectively or right out in your face-ly the laws were being enforced, crazy old hoarder guy had no right to shoot them.


Look at it from his perspective.

The guy is 60, on disability, no real outlook on his life, and now the only thing that's his is being taken away and he's being put on the street.

I could see him taking this as a "death sentence", and flipping out over it.

I'm not saying he was right, but think about his perception of the situation.
 
2013-08-06 02:24:54 PM  
Lots of uppity people now living in the Poconos. Why, back when I was a boy, you could visit the Poconos, and not have to worry about things like toilets. You could buy one at the hardware store for $20. No more, those things cost hundreds of dollars.
 
2013-08-06 02:38:56 PM  

Thingster: Satan's Bunny Slippers: PunGent:

Probably not...but that doesn't mean existing laws weren't enforced selectively.

Wouldn't be the first time someone with buddies on the zoning commission wanted property cheap, is all I'm saying.

I'm agreeing with you.

Just still not worth shooting people over.  It's stuff.  I lost all my stuff to my ex.  All of it, including my house, my clothes, my car, my dishes, my cats.  I didn't shoot him.  Thought about it, could have (had access to guns), some people say I should  have.  But I didn't.  No matter how selectively or right out in your face-ly the laws were being enforced, crazy old hoarder guy had no right to shoot them.

Look at it from his perspective.

The guy is 60, on disability, no real outlook on his life, and now the only thing that's his is being taken away and he's being put on the street.

I could see him taking this as a "death sentence", and flipping out over it.

I'm not saying he was right, but think about his perception of the situation.


Oh, I can see that, and agree with that too....I'm pretty sure that's exactly how the old guy saw it.  But my point originally was aimed at the asstards in here that were cheering that people got shot.  And then PunGent very nicely played debbils abbocate and put out a what ifs....

I understand how he could have felt that way, I really do.  But it still does not give him the RIGHT to go shooting people, and the "HELL YEAH MURRRICA THE FREE" idiots that are all fine with it were the ones I had aimed my original statement at.
 
2013-08-06 02:53:51 PM  

Satan's Bunny Slippers: Thingster: Satan's Bunny Slippers: PunGent:

Probably not...but that doesn't mean existing laws weren't enforced selectively.

Wouldn't be the first time someone with buddies on the zoning commission wanted property cheap, is all I'm saying.

I'm agreeing with you.

Just still not worth shooting people over.  It's stuff.  I lost all my stuff to my ex.  All of it, including my house, my clothes, my car, my dishes, my cats.  I didn't shoot him.  Thought about it, could have (had access to guns), some people say I should  have.  But I didn't.  No matter how selectively or right out in your face-ly the laws were being enforced, crazy old hoarder guy had no right to shoot them.

Look at it from his perspective.

The guy is 60, on disability, no real outlook on his life, and now the only thing that's his is being taken away and he's being put on the street.

I could see him taking this as a "death sentence", and flipping out over it.

I'm not saying he was right, but think about his perception of the situation.

Oh, I can see that, and agree with that too....I'm pretty sure that's exactly how the old guy saw it.  But my point originally was aimed at the asstards in here that were cheering that people got shot.  And then PunGent very nicely played debbils abbocate and put out a what ifs....

I understand how he could have felt that way, I really do.  But it still does not give him the RIGHT to go shooting people, and the "HELL YEAH MURRRICA THE FREE" idiots that are all fine with it were the ones I had aimed my original statement at.


I completely agree, I'm just saying in his mind he was correct, though he doesn't have the right.

Though it is the idea behind stealing a horse used to be a hanging offense - unless the person has the means to immediately replace it, the thief had likely killed the victim by proxy.


There are also a couple old sayings about when you have nothing to lose, you have everything to gain and about not picking fights with old men, they're too old to get hurt so they'll just kill you.

shiatty situation all around it seems.
 
2013-08-06 02:56:29 PM  
Thingster: shiatty situation all around it seems. 


That's pretty much it.  Sad and shiatty.
 
2013-08-06 02:56:59 PM  

dittybopper: dodecahedron: These are not sheds by definition. Why don't you show me on that Wikipedia page where it says you can move and install and live in one of these small houses without getting permits? You CANT.

Actually, so long as it has wheels on it, yes you can.  Because it's not a building.  It's a vehicle.


His shed is a shed and it's for storage. The word "only" makes no difference, storage is not the same as dwelling. His shed is not on wheels, so stop being obtuse. This isn't a motor home we're talking about. If you want to live in a place without zoning and property laws, move to farking Somalia.
 
2013-08-06 02:59:17 PM  

dittybopper: Ed Grubermann: dittybopper:According to him, he has a composting toilet, which is a sanitation system.

And yet, there were complaints of buckets of human waste on his property.

Did you not read the post where I said it could be a case where both are correct:  There are portable composting toilets that use 5 gallon buckets for waste collection, for use in a compost pile.

Apparently, you take your dump, cover the material with 6" of compost like sawdust or other like material, and repeat.  When the bucket is full, you empty it into the compost heap.  The action of heat from decomposition kills the pathogens in the feces, so by the time it's ready for use, it's perfectly safe.

Now, this guy may or may not have been doing that, but it's not totally out of the question that it might be safe and relatively sanitary to use buckets for that.

/Wouldn't do that myself.
//Would dig a nice, big pit latrine and let nature to the work for me.


A composting TOILET is NOT the same as a compost PILE. You fail miserably.
 
2013-08-06 03:02:02 PM  

monoski: Ed Grubermann: dittybopper:According to him, he has a composting toilet, which is a sanitation system.

And yet, there were complaints of buckets of human waste on his property.

GIS the guy's house. Poop in a bucket was only one small part of the problem.


Dittybopper is an idiot. Nobody in this entire country are you allowed to have an open compost pit as a sanitary system. He's either a troll or a farking imbecile.
 
2013-08-06 03:12:15 PM  

airsupport: kid_icarus: Pocket Ninja: I wonder how long it will be before somebody points out that if everybody in the town meeting had been armed, this wouldn't have happened.

If by "arms" you mean hugs. He could have been stopped with the power of love if everyone had just come together and opened their hearts.

He was stopped by a bear hug from a bystander.


... exactly as the framers intended by the right to bear arms.
 
2013-08-06 03:39:34 PM  
if someone had a "compost toliet" and was pooping in buckets and spreading it across his land, my city government better try and shut him down.

And if the asshole just ignores the law for 17 years, what recourse does the city have?

This dead guy was a loser, plain and simple.
 
2013-08-06 03:39:37 PM  

MythDragon: Glory glory hallelujah
My teacher hit me with a ruler
I met her in the hall and revved the chainsaw
And she ain't gonna teach no more.


Glory glory hallelujah
My teacher hit me with a ruler
I sprayed her in the face with a can of Army mace
And she ain't gonna teach no more
 
2013-08-06 03:41:18 PM  

PunGent: Satan's Bunny Slippers: LasersHurt: KrispyKritter: Wish i had the balls the Link land owner does.

You wish you had the balls to kill innocent people, eh?

StrangeQ: honestly they got exactly what was coming to them.

Has everyone lost their farking minds or what

Yes.  Farking gun nut freedom lovin murrrricans can KISS MY LILY WHITE FAT ASS

NO ONE deserves to be shot over some crap like this, and those of you cheering it, I hope one day someone you love gets the same treatment, shot by some crazy person because they followed the law and did their jobs.

Fark all you nuts.

Just to play devil's advocate here, "following the law and doing your job", in and of itself...hasn't washed as an excuse since Nuremberg.

There's got to be underlying justice, as well.  Not to Godwin the thread, but plenty of the Nazis' mass-murdering?
Perfectly legal.  They'd made it so.  In D&D terms, you might think of them as Lawful Evil.

Now, no idea what happened here, but it's not automatically the case that the victims were innocent.  Quite likely, but not automatic.


So you know it was the *council members* who got shot? And not, say, folks simply attending the meeting?
 
2013-08-06 03:46:23 PM  
also, the guy wasn't "60" when this started, he was 43!  Was he on disability then too?  Was he "too injured" to follow the zoning laws then?
 
2013-08-06 04:06:10 PM  

pacified: also, the guy wasn't "60" when this started, he was 43!  Was he on disability then too?  Was he "too injured" to follow the zoning laws then?


1.) The articles state that he was injured in a vehicle accident which is why he is on disability, not due to his age.
2.) The City made numerous errors apparently. The inspector told his contractor to build the culvert taller than what should have been built and the City came back and told him he had to build it properly.
3.) The poop-buckets were discovered by law enforcement when they got onto his premises, I have not seen any mention of complaints from neighbors.
4.) The document regarding his shack he built was edited by a third party after it was drafted and dually signed by the City and the crazy old man. This was confirmed by the original drafter from the city.

I understand there are zoning laws, but if it is not visible to neighbors and does not create a health or safety to concern to others - how does that matter?

I am actually curious because at work, we own our own building that is located partially in an industrially area and partially in a residential area. There is a house next to us and the lady living in it currently is an "old crazy cat lady" with 10 dogs in her backyard and her front yard looks like a garage sale all the time. The storm ditches supposedly maintained by the city are always overgrown plus there is an empty lot that Hispanic members of the community use to dispose of things they do not want like mattresses, couches, toilets, etc. It is really frustrating because none of this is really a health or safety concern, but moreso an extreme eyesore that does not give a good impression to clients coming to our building. We have complained to the city before, but the city is worse at maintaining itself than the crazy cat lady is.
 
2013-08-06 04:12:26 PM  

the money is in the banana stand: pacified: also, the guy wasn't "60" when this started, he was 43!  Was he on disability then too?  Was he "too injured" to follow the zoning laws then?

1.) The articles state that he was injured in a vehicle accident which is why he is on disability, not due to his age.
2.) The City made numerous errors apparently. The inspector told his contractor to build the culvert taller than what should have been built and the City came back and told him he had to build it properly.
3.) The poop-buckets were discovered by law enforcement when they got onto his premises, I have not seen any mention of complaints from neighbors.
4.) The document regarding his shack he built was edited by a third party after it was drafted and dually signed by the City and the crazy old man. This was confirmed by the original drafter from the city.

I understand there are zoning laws, but if it is not visible to neighbors and does not create a health or safety to concern to others - how does that matter?

I am actually curious because at work, we own our own building that is located partially in an industrially area and partially in a residential area. There is a house next to us and the lady living in it currently is an "old crazy cat lady" with 10 dogs in her backyard and her front yard looks like a garage sale all the time. The storm ditches supposedly maintained by the city are always overgrown plus there is an empty lot that Hispanic members of the community use to dispose of things they do not want like mattresses, couches, toilets, etc. It is really frustrating because none of this is really a health or safety concern, but moreso an extreme eyesore that does not give a good impression to clients coming to our building. We have complained to the city before, but the city is worse at maintaining itself than the crazy cat lady is.


Dispose of the mattresses in a very visible way and I bet the fire Marshall will get on the DPWs case
 
2013-08-06 04:27:33 PM  
Local paper now has 23 shotd fired from a ruger mini-14 and the pistol he went back to his car for was a 44 mag.
What a mini 14 looks like to the media.
th09.deviantart.net
 
2013-08-06 05:27:41 PM  
"I wish I killed more of them."

"I got a .44 slug on my leg. Hospital says it's still in there. They gave me no pain medication and sent me on my way. I'm bleeding all over the place."

Yeah, how'd that happen again?
 
2013-08-06 05:46:27 PM  

efts: this guy was just testing the adage "you can't fight city hall."


This. Apparently you can, if you have guns and they don't.


And as far as the dispute, we're being asked to choose between a crazy, gun-toting asshole and a municipal government ... Too close to call.

Kidding. Mostly.
 
2013-08-06 05:59:00 PM  
They ought to have armed bouncers enforce face control for public buildings.  So many of the spree gunners look like that guy, don't they?
 
2013-08-06 06:08:49 PM  

wataga123: Local paper now has 23 shotd fired from a ruger mini-14 and the pistol he went back to his car for was a 44 mag.
What a mini 14 looks like to the media.
[th09.deviantart.net image 850x637]


go fark yourself. you slobbering, nugent fellating, gun licking, gun giggling, pretentious yet mouth breathing. dittybopper farking asshole.
 
2013-08-06 06:59:23 PM  

BuckTurgidson: airsupport: kid_icarus: Pocket Ninja: I wonder how long it will be before somebody points out that if everybody in the town meeting had been armed, this wouldn't have happened.

If by "arms" you mean hugs. He could have been stopped with the power of love if everyone had just come together and opened their hearts.

He was stopped by a bear hug from a bystander.

... exactly as the framers intended by the right to bear arms.


Magnificent.
 
2013-08-06 07:48:39 PM  

dodecahedron: monoski: Ed Grubermann: dittybopper:According to him, he has a composting toilet, which is a sanitation system.

And yet, there were complaints of buckets of human waste on his property.

GIS the guy's house. Poop in a bucket was only one small part of the problem.

Dittybopper is an idiot. Nobody in this entire country are you allowed to have an open compost pit as a sanitary system. He's either a troll or a farking imbecile.


Tell that to Mother Earth News.

Apparently, a veritable shiat-load of people are doing it.
 
2013-08-06 08:27:31 PM  

dittybopper: dodecahedron: Dittybopper is an idiot. Nobody in this entire country are you allowed to have an open compost pit as a sanitary system. He's either a troll or a farking imbecile.

Tell that to Mother Earth News.


ctrl+f "open compost pit"

Tell them what?
 
2013-08-06 08:51:14 PM  

dittybopper: redmid17: dittybopper: redmid17: /don't shiat and bury it in the ground
//that's gross. use a sanitary alternative

Actually, that *IS* a sanitary alternative when done correctly.  And it's not hard to do correctly.

A composting toilet would be a sanitary alternative. I meant don't literally dig only a hole to shiat it and then cover it up. That's gross.

Depends on how deep the hole is.  Nature can take care of it quite well if you dig a decent pit, and make sure to cover it afterwards.  As I recall from my camping days, a 6" hole was adequate for a single "session".   You obviously don't want to do it right next to a water source, though.

It might seem gross, but biologically, there's little danger if done correctly.


The way I was always taught to do a cathole (the good old "dig a hole and shiat in it" method) was that you go at least 150 yards from the nearest water source and dig at least six inches deep.  (And yes, I got my initial experience with catholes via an Outward Bound trip that also involved my first experience with orienteering.  Primitive camping can be fun despite some of the slogging-through-rhododendron-to-poop stuff :D)

Of course, for those who've never been on an Outward Bound or similar primitive camping weekend course, there actually is a book all about teaching one how to shiat in the woods in a sanitary manner when backcountry camping :D

(Also--and I'm really surprised this has NOT been brought up yet--when I saw the link someone had posted yesterday for Crazy Shooter Fellow's property being up for auction, I did notice that there was a very specific notation on it that it was considered wetlands and "could not be developed or built on"; I actually suspect the real reason that the property was condemned (and why Crazy Shooter Guy couldn't get formal permits to do building) is not HOA Politics or Crazy Hoarder Fellow but a mix of these PLUS research finding that this was apparently a protected wetland where development wouldn't have been allowed at all and Crazy Shooter Guy was gifted with a piece of property that was effectively useless for anything short of woodlands property to put a nice hunting blind on.)
 
2013-08-06 09:12:17 PM  

redmid17: dittybopper: redmid17: dittybopper: redmid17: /don't shiat and bury it in the ground
//that's gross. use a sanitary alternative

Actually, that *IS* a sanitary alternative when done correctly.  And it's not hard to do correctly.

A composting toilet would be a sanitary alternative. I meant don't literally dig only a hole to shiat it and then cover it up. That's gross.

Depends on how deep the hole is.  Nature can take care of it quite well if you dig a decent pit, and make sure to cover it afterwards.  As I recall from my camping days, a 6" hole was adequate for a single "session".   You obviously don't want to do it right next to a water source, though.

It might seem gross, but biologically, there's little danger if done correctly.

No for sure it's fine as a one-off. I was posting in context of continued habitation of the aforementioned property. I don't know anyone who's installed a composting toilet to go camping in the woods.


Apparently you don't know a number of Farkers as well as the National Park Service or National Forest Service or even certain educational demonstration farms, then. :D

Pretty much that's what we do with the "family park" piece of property relatives and I have for camping and fishing--yes, aforementioned hole-commode is more than 150 feet from a water source, and because there's not permanent buildings on the property and it's not permanently occupied we just use a pit toilet instead.  (To keep it from getting TOO stinky we do put leaves and compostable material in at day's end, so basically it operates as a composing toilet nowadays.)

The NPS and National Forest Service have also set up composting toilets in certain popular backcountry trails in a number of national parks (partly to discourage digging catholes and partly because they're more sanitary and eco-friendly than vault toilets); there's even a demonstration farm here in Louisville that has had composting toilets for the better part of 25 years (Blackacre Conservancy which is all-around a cool place--they also raise a LOT of heritage crops and heritage varieties of livestock, and pretty much run the place as a demonstration farm especially for high schools; this is where I was originally introduced to the idea of composting toilets versus old-style outhouses, in fact).
 
2013-08-06 09:20:55 PM  

the money is in the banana stand: The storm ditches supposedly maintained by the city are always overgrown plus there is an empty lot that Hispanic members of the community use to dispose of things they do not want like mattresses, couches, toilets, etc. It is really frustrating because none of this is really a health or safety concern, but moreso an extreme eyesore that does not give a good impression to clients coming to our building. We have complained to the city before, but the city is worse at maintaining itself than the crazy cat lady is.


A company I worked for had your problem.  Their solution was to hire a couple of day laborers every few months to haul away the trash.  It's really the path of least hassle and risk.
 
2013-08-06 09:24:00 PM  

Into the blue again: So it's OK for him to shoot wildly through a wall then storm the building shooting? I am confused.....


That's not what I suggested at all. Don't be an idiot.
 
2013-08-06 09:34:52 PM  

spamdog: Into the blue again: So it's OK for him to shoot wildly through a wall then storm the building shooting? I am confused.....

That's not what I suggested at all. Don't be an idiot.


Says the guy who defended a murderer.
 
2013-08-06 10:55:41 PM  

Thingster: shiatty situation all around it seems.


Nope. He had 18 years to get that property in order. Did you look at any of the pictures out there of the property? Evidently his idea of improvements was getting a dog house for an empty propane tank. Eighteen years and all he did was cover his land with junk, trash, and bodily waste.
 
2013-08-07 01:29:33 AM  
Poop thread! :D
 
2013-08-07 09:03:21 AM  

Felgraf: PunGent: Satan's Bunny Slippers: LasersHurt: KrispyKritter: Wish i had the balls the Link land owner does.

You wish you had the balls to kill innocent people, eh?

StrangeQ: honestly they got exactly what was coming to them.

Has everyone lost their farking minds or what

Yes.  Farking gun nut freedom lovin murrrricans can KISS MY LILY WHITE FAT ASS

NO ONE deserves to be shot over some crap like this, and those of you cheering it, I hope one day someone you love gets the same treatment, shot by some crazy person because they followed the law and did their jobs.

Fark all you nuts.

Just to play devil's advocate here, "following the law and doing your job", in and of itself...hasn't washed as an excuse since Nuremberg.

There's got to be underlying justice, as well.  Not to Godwin the thread, but plenty of the Nazis' mass-murdering?
Perfectly legal.  They'd made it so.  In D&D terms, you might think of them as Lawful Evil.

Now, no idea what happened here, but it's not automatically the case that the victims were innocent.  Quite likely, but not automatic.

So you know it was the *council members* who got shot? And not, say, folks simply attending the meeting?


Try re-reading what I posted.
 
2013-08-07 09:21:27 AM  

CreampuffCasperMilktoast: PunGent: CreampuffCasperMilktoast: So pretty much the shooter will now get free food, healthcare, shelter, television, education, and more. Take note Baby Boomers, not a bad retirement plan right?

Nutraloaf, an alcoholic EMT, a roach-infested cell, whatever Bubba wants to watch on basic cable, and a used Bible are no way to go through life, son...

The Monroe County Correctional Facility, a peaceful rural setting, with an extremely sanitary kitchen that was run by Aramark, and recently replaced by a competitor which apparently has made people happier, since there is a new menu and larger portions. They've hired a private health care firm, which "either meets or exceeds standards."   http://www.privateci.org/pennsylvania.htm  .....evidently the women have a decent choir http://www.youtube.com/wa tch?v=hV2gJOpf51o ...and let's face it, older folks such as the shooter might like a little more physical contact, perhaps even love from Bubba could make him feel special.


I ate Aramark food for a week on a movie set once...I'd rather be in prison, thanks.

Oh, wait...
 
2013-08-07 09:25:22 AM  

Satan's Bunny Slippers: PunGent:

Probably not...but that doesn't mean existing laws weren't enforced selectively.

Wouldn't be the first time someone with buddies on the zoning commission wanted property cheap, is all I'm saying.

I'm agreeing with you.

Just still not worth shooting people over.  It's stuff.  I lost all my stuff to my ex.  All of it, including my house, my clothes, my car, my dishes, my cats.  I didn't shoot him.  Thought about it, could have (had access to guns), some people say I should  have.  But I didn't.  No matter how selectively or right out in your face-ly the laws were being enforced, crazy old hoarder guy had no right to shoot them.


You're probably right, in this case.  Still, in my opinion, there comes a point where the individual has the right to stand up against the state, with violence if necessary.  And if some of those state actors are unarmed, that doesn't necessarily change the equation.
 
2013-08-07 09:26:22 AM  

Nina_Hartley's_Ass: PunGent: Wouldn't be the first time someone with buddies on the zoning commission wanted property cheap, is all I'm saying.

Yeah, that 17 year plan worked out great.


Yeah, this guy was probably over-reacting a smidge.
 
2013-08-07 09:51:30 AM  

PunGent: CreampuffCasperMilktoast: PunGent: CreampuffCasperMilktoast: So pretty much the shooter will now get free food, healthcare, shelter, television, education, and more. Take note Baby Boomers, not a bad retirement plan right?

Nutraloaf, an alcoholic EMT, a roach-infested cell, whatever Bubba wants to watch on basic cable, and a used Bible are no way to go through life, son...

The Monroe County Correctional Facility, a peaceful rural setting, with an extremely sanitary kitchen that was run by Aramark, and recently replaced by a competitor which apparently has made people happier, since there is a new menu and larger portions. They've hired a private health care firm, which "either meets or exceeds standards."   http://www.privateci.org/pennsylvania.htm  .....evidently the women have a decent choir http://www.youtube.com/wa tch?v=hV2gJOpf51o ...and let's face it, older folks such as the shooter might like a little more physical contact, perhaps even love from Bubba could make him feel special.

I ate Aramark food for a week on a movie set once...I'd rather be in prison, thanks.

Oh, wait...


As opposed to the warm slop they serve at a nursing home? ...or perhaps the oatmeal this guy was probably eating for breakfast/lunch/dinner on a daily basis?
 
2013-08-07 10:31:43 AM  

CreampuffCasperMilktoast: PunGent: CreampuffCasperMilktoast: PunGent: CreampuffCasperMilktoast: So pretty much the shooter will now get free food, healthcare, shelter, television, education, and more. Take note Baby Boomers, not a bad retirement plan right?

Nutraloaf, an alcoholic EMT, a roach-infested cell, whatever Bubba wants to watch on basic cable, and a used Bible are no way to go through life, son...

The Monroe County Correctional Facility, a peaceful rural setting, with an extremely sanitary kitchen that was run by Aramark, and recently replaced by a competitor which apparently has made people happier, since there is a new menu and larger portions. They've hired a private health care firm, which "either meets or exceeds standards."   http://www.privateci.org/pennsylvania.htm  .....evidently the women have a decent choir http://www.youtube.com/wa tch?v=hV2gJOpf51o ...and let's face it, older folks such as the shooter might like a little more physical contact, perhaps even love from Bubba could make him feel special.

I ate Aramark food for a week on a movie set once...I'd rather be in prison, thanks.

Oh, wait...

As opposed to the warm slop they serve at a nursing home? ...or perhaps the oatmeal this guy was probably eating for breakfast/lunch/dinner on a daily basis?


Heh, the last nursing home I visited had pretty good food...of course, it was one of the top-rated on the East Coast, and cost about $10,000 a MONTH.

Prison food probably isn't like that...maybe in Club Fed...
 
2013-08-07 01:55:11 PM  
Did you guys really forget?

The old fart was merely standing his ground as was his sacred right under the only important amendment to the Constitution.

It's Skittles all the way down.
 
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