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(ABC)   That town meeting shooting last night? Yeah, that was due to a property dispute between the owner and the town. I mean that was the best way to handle such things, right?   (abcnews.go.com) divider line 260
    More: Followup, town meetings  
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3897 clicks; posted to Main » on 06 Aug 2013 at 8:05 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-08-06 07:53:22 AM
I wonder how long it will be before somebody points out that if everybody in the town meeting had been armed, this wouldn't have happened.
 
2013-08-06 07:57:12 AM

Pocket Ninja: I wonder how long it will be before somebody points out that if everybody in the town meeting had been armed, this wouldn't have happened.


Sure, they could have returned fire through the wall. That would have worked out, I'm sure.
 
2013-08-06 07:59:50 AM

LasersHurt: Pocket Ninja: I wonder how long it will be before somebody points out that if everybody in the town meeting had been armed, this wouldn't have happened.

Sure, they could have returned fire through the wall. That would have worked out, I'm sure.


Well, obviously, they'd have had armed guards, too. The NRA has already established that having an armed guard in every school is the best way to stop shooters; there's no reason that shouldn't apply to town hall meetings, too. When you think about it, it's actually irresponsible that a town council wouldn't have armed guards to protect its meetings. WTF were they thinking?
 
2013-08-06 08:03:12 AM
So subby, you're saying that the town commissioners shouldn't have given this man the opportunity to discuss a dispute with them? Just roll right over the little guy without recourse? Seems harsh to me.
 
2013-08-06 08:06:28 AM

SmackLT: So subby, you're saying that the town commissioners shouldn't have given this man the opportunity to discuss a dispute with them? Just roll right over the little guy without recourse? Seems harsh to me.


or you can argue that the town was in the wrong to begin with and shouldn't have pushed a guy to this point, but no, let's blame subby
 
2013-08-06 08:07:10 AM

Pocket Ninja: LasersHurt: Pocket Ninja: I wonder how long it will be before somebody points out that if everybody in the town meeting had been armed, this wouldn't have happened.

Sure, they could have returned fire through the wall. That would have worked out, I'm sure.

Well, obviously, they'd have had armed guards, too. The NRA has already established that having an armed guard in every school is the best way to stop shooters; there's no reason that shouldn't apply to town hall meetings, too. When you think about it, it's actually irresponsible that a town council wouldn't have armed guards to protect its meetings. WTF were they thinking?


Armed guards have the side benefit of arresting any uppity citizens that might disagree with you at the meeting, so they're a real win-win.  We can't have the plebes arguing with their betters.
 
2013-08-06 08:07:47 AM

somedude210: SmackLT: So subby, you're saying that the town commissioners shouldn't have given this man the opportunity to discuss a dispute with them? Just roll right over the little guy without recourse? Seems harsh to me.

or you can argue that the town was in the wrong to begin with and shouldn't have pushed a guy to this point, but no, let's blame subby


Yes, the town MADE HIM shoot people. It's really their fault, dressing that way.
 
2013-08-06 08:08:15 AM
inb4 killdozer.
 
2013-08-06 08:08:30 AM
this guy was just testing the adage "you can't fight city hall."
 
2013-08-06 08:08:52 AM

Marcus Aurelius: Pocket Ninja: LasersHurt: Pocket Ninja: I wonder how long it will be before somebody points out that if everybody in the town meeting had been armed, this wouldn't have happened.

Sure, they could have returned fire through the wall. That would have worked out, I'm sure.

Well, obviously, they'd have had armed guards, too. The NRA has already established that having an armed guard in every school is the best way to stop shooters; there's no reason that shouldn't apply to town hall meetings, too. When you think about it, it's actually irresponsible that a town council wouldn't have armed guards to protect its meetings. WTF were they thinking?

Armed guards have the side benefit of arresting any uppity citizens that might disagree with you at the meeting, so they're a real win-win.  We can't have the plebes arguing with their betters.


Arrest hell, just shoot 'em.  Don't bother tazing 'em bro.
 
2013-08-06 08:09:08 AM
Isn't this one of them Second Amendment Solutions that I keep hearing about?
 
2013-08-06 08:09:16 AM
Maybe the governor could have offered him some money for the property. It worked out pretty good in Vermont.
 
2013-08-06 08:11:10 AM
Autoplay video makes baby FSM cry.
 
2013-08-06 08:11:32 AM

styckx: inb4 killdozer.


But thats the proper way to deal with property disputes.
 
2013-08-06 08:12:03 AM
I've been watching Doomsday Preppers a bunch lately and those people are without a doubt the scariest people around. Last night's rerun was some guy whose wife always looked on the verge of tears. When he asked her to go down into the basement bunker he had built under his business, she pleaded with him to let her stay outside. In the next shot, you could see her dashing away around a corner as the dad and other kids were going down into the basement.

Always with the guns and the strategically planted explosives with these people. It's not so much the fact that they are stocking up for what they see are hard times ahead of us. Rather, it's the unfettered distrust they have of their neighbors and society at large.

So this guy shoots up a town meeting. It makes a lot of sense. They've been persecuting him and forcing him to not take the actions he believes he needs to take to prepare himself. The town council has become the enemy. Enemy deserves no mercy. Sweep the leg, Johnny. Get them a body bag.
 
2013-08-06 08:12:15 AM

LasersHurt: Yes, the town MADE HIM shoot people. It's really their fault, dressing that way.


*headdesk* fark it, I give up. No one's to blame, this is a completely unpreventable situation and it was bound to happen
 
GBB [TotalFark]
2013-08-06 08:12:19 AM

somedude210: SmackLT: So subby, you're saying that the town commissioners shouldn't have given this man the opportunity to discuss a dispute with them? Just roll right over the little guy without recourse? Seems harsh to me.

or you can argue that the town was in the wrong to begin with and shouldn't have pushed a guy to this point, but no, let's blame subby


Why have rules at all if people will resort to firearms because they don't like them?
 
2013-08-06 08:13:01 AM
"This land is my land
This land is my land
This land is my land
This land is my land
This land is my land
This land is my land
This land was made for only me."

- Woody Guthrie
 
2013-08-06 08:13:05 AM
On topic, crazy old dude was living in a shiathole he didn't have permits for.  Town had two choices when it was clear he was a crazy old coot without the means or ability to actually fix it himself if the place was that big a problem to the rest of the town, hold a barn raising and build him a new actually decent place to live and try to take care of him in his declining years, or try to force him off 'his' land.  One of those choices was moderately expensive and took effort, the other was crazy-old-coot-last-straw and ended up with a couple people dead and 5 more shot and wounded.
 
2013-08-06 08:13:09 AM

somedude210: or you can argue that the town was in the wrong to begin with and shouldn't have pushed a guy to this point, but no, let's blame subby


Or you can shut the f*ck up
 
2013-08-06 08:13:15 AM

Pocket Ninja: I wonder how long it will be before somebody points out that if everybody in the town meeting had been armed, this wouldn't have happened.


If by "arms" you mean hugs. He could have been stopped with the power of love if everyone had just come together and opened their hearts.
 
2013-08-06 08:13:39 AM

somedude210: LasersHurt: Yes, the town MADE HIM shoot people. It's really their fault, dressing that way.

*headdesk* fark it, I give up. No one's to blame, this is a completely unpreventable situation and it was bound to happen


The first bits were sarcasm that you didn't get. Then you suggested they were to blame for being shot by an angry man. You should maybe get some coffee.
 
2013-08-06 08:13:43 AM

Pocket Ninja: I wonder how long it will be before somebody points out that if everybody in the town meeting had been armed, this wouldn't have happened.


Actually, someone *DID* use a gun to stop him:

The shooter returned to his car and came back inside with another weapon when a local official at the meeting grabbed him, Reber said.
"(West End Open Space Commission executive director) Bernie Kozen was there tending to the man and he (the shooter) didn't see them," Reber said. "Bernie bearhugged him and took him down. He shot (the shooter) with his own gun."

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/08/06/2-killed-3-injured-in-shooting-a t -pennsylvania-municipal-building/#ixzz2bBrql6I4
 
2013-08-06 08:13:43 AM

SmackLT: So subby, you're saying that the town commissioners shouldn't have given this man the opportunity to discuss a dispute with them? Just roll right over the little guy without recourse? Seems harsh to me.


I think you are a little short on the underlying facts like the article. Properties are not condemned overnight, there is a process.
 
2013-08-06 08:15:31 AM

CarnySaur: "This land is my land
This land is my land
This land is my land
This land is my land
This land is my land
This land is my land
This land was made for only me."

- Woody Guthrie


"This land is my land
It's not your land
I've got a shotgun
You haven't got one
This land was made for me not you..."

- my property law professor
 
2013-08-06 08:15:34 AM
Legal gun owner that was responsible yesterday. Isolated incident.
 
2013-08-06 08:16:03 AM

WTF Indeed: Or you can shut the f*ck up


man, who pissed in your wheaties this morning?
 
2013-08-06 08:17:19 AM

LasersHurt: The first bits were sarcasm that you didn't get. Then you suggested they were to blame for being shot by an angry man. You should maybe get some coffee.


I suggested that it was a case of unintended consequences. maybe my wording was off (as you said, I should probably get some coffee) but that was all I was pointing out
 
2013-08-06 08:18:06 AM

Pocket Ninja: I wonder how long it will be before somebody points out that if everybody in the town meeting had been armed, this wouldn't have happened.


If everyone were to drape themselves in guns then shootings would be very rare what with all of that metal deflecting the bullets.  Do I have to think of everything?
 
2013-08-06 08:20:15 AM

monoski: SmackLT: So subby, you're saying that the town commissioners shouldn't have given this man the opportunity to discuss a dispute with them? Just roll right over the little guy without recourse? Seems harsh to me.

I think you are a little short on the underlying facts like the article. Properties are not condemned overnight, there is a process.


That's true, but in all honesty, it's only a process you can effectively counter if you have the money to fight it, and people who do have the money to fight it generally don't end up getting their property condemned for cause (as opposed to eminent domain condemnations).

So, if you don't have the money to fix up your place to begin with, it's not very likely that you'll have the money to effectively fight a condemnation proceeding by the town.   Especially if you've pissed off the town board by being a cantankerous old cuss who just wants to be left alone.
 
GBB [TotalFark]
2013-08-06 08:20:19 AM

devine: Autoplay video makes baby FSM cry.


Baby FSM?   You mean Baby Meatsause
 
2013-08-06 08:21:36 AM
Maybe the government shouldn't have tried to run a guy off his land through an expensive regulatory scheme?

Small town in NEPA so you can assume it is corrupt as hell.
 
2013-08-06 08:24:48 AM
I'm sure he was a law obiding citizen (lol) until they pissed him off.
 
2013-08-06 08:26:18 AM
So my concealed carry is about to drop. Should I spring for an Springfield Xdm or get a 1911? I'm in NY, so I'm limited to 10 round mags (so I need big bullets that pack a lot of wallop).
 
2013-08-06 08:27:03 AM

Spade: Maybe the government shouldn't have tried to run a guy off his land through an expensive regulatory scheme?

Small town in NEPA so you can assume it is corrupt as hell.


According to previous reports, Newell got a building permit from the township to have a storage structure on the property, but then built a dwelling without first getting a zoning permit or certificate of occupancy from the township.

Over the years, authorities have responded to Newell's property as a result of neighbor complaints and on one occasion in 2009 found human fecal matter in buckets there, according to previous reports in the Pocono Record.

The township determined he was improperly disposing of sewage with no septic system or permit for one.


Yeah they totally deserved to die for crossing this asshole.
 
2013-08-06 08:27:19 AM

Pocket Ninja: LasersHurt: Pocket Ninja: I wonder how long it will be before somebody points out that if everybody in the town meeting had been armed, this wouldn't have happened.

Sure, they could have returned fire through the wall. That would have worked out, I'm sure.

Well, obviously, they'd have had armed guards, too. The NRA has already established that having an armed guard in every school is the best way to stop shooters; there's no reason that shouldn't apply to town hall meetings, too. When you think about it, it's actually irresponsible that a town council wouldn't have armed guards to protect its meetings. WTF were they thinking?


Even in my small town we have police officers at all public hearings. It keeps people civil.

Not getting a kick out of these replies since I have to work a public hearing tonight with a controversial zoning request.
 
2013-08-06 08:27:49 AM
If town government would stop being such biatches about trivial shiat, these things wouldn't have to happen.

/kidding
//kind of
///small town governments can be petty assholes about trivial common sense things.
 
2013-08-06 08:31:16 AM

dittybopper: monoski: SmackLT: So subby, you're saying that the town commissioners shouldn't have given this man the opportunity to discuss a dispute with them? Just roll right over the little guy without recourse? Seems harsh to me.

I think you are a little short on the underlying facts like the article. Properties are not condemned overnight, there is a process.

That's true, but in all honesty, it's only a process you can effectively counter if you have the money to fight it, and people who do have the money to fight it generally don't end up getting their property condemned for cause (as opposed to eminent domain condemnations).

So, if you don't have the money to fix up your place to begin with, it's not very likely that you'll have the money to effectively fight a condemnation proceeding by the town.   Especially if you've pissed off the town board by being a cantankerous old cuss who just wants to be left alone.


Look up this dudes house. It is a total disaster. This does not appear to be eminent domain but one of public safety but I do appreciate where you are coming from, local govts have screwed people out of their home.
 
2013-08-06 08:31:53 AM
He needed to get out of Monroe County -- the fastest-growing county in the state because it's becoming a bedroom community for New York City and Philadelphia -- and get up to the "Big T" part of the state where pooping in a bucket makes you "uppity and highfalutin'"
 
2013-08-06 08:41:25 AM
Council can sit behind bullet proof glass and let pissed off citizens shoot at them all day to let off steam.
 
2013-08-06 08:44:56 AM

HotWingConspiracy: According to previous reports, Newell got a building permit from the township to have a storage structure on the property, but then built a dwelling without first getting a zoning permit or certificate of occupancy from the township.

Over the years, authorities have responded to Newell's property as a result of neighbor complaints and on one occasion in 2009 found human fecal matter in buckets there, according to previous reports in the Pocono Record.

The township determined he was improperly disposing of sewage with no septic system or permit for one.

Yeah they totally deserved to die for crossing this asshole.


And it went on for SEVENTEEN YEARS. I love that half or more of the people in this thread are actually defending this crazy fark out of sheer knee jerk reaction.
 
2013-08-06 08:49:47 AM
2nd amendment solutions are the best solutions, and the sign of a polite society.
 
2013-08-06 08:50:49 AM
And he voted for Obama too.

Thanks, Obama!
 
2013-08-06 08:51:53 AM

Pocket Ninja: I wonder how long it will be before somebody points out that if everybody in the town meeting had been armed, this wouldn't have happened.


As long as they didn't have tampons. Those things are dangerous.
 
2013-08-06 08:51:57 AM

LowbrowDeluxe: On topic, crazy old dude was living in a shiathole he didn't have permits for.  Town had two choices when it was clear he was a crazy old coot without the means or ability to actually fix it himself if the place was that big a problem to the rest of the town, hold a barn raising and build him a new actually decent place to live and try to take care of him in his declining years, or try to force him off 'his' land.  One of those choices was moderately expensive and took effort, the other was crazy-old-coot-last-straw and ended up with a couple people dead and 5 more shot and wounded.


This. The law and due process are not magical forcefields that protect you from the consequences of your actions. Just because a government can roll over somebody without technically breaking the law doesn't make it "right". Sometimes showing a bit of humanity and compassion is called for. Down at the level of dealing with people, a certain amount of flexibility is called for. This didn't happen out of the blue; this was a cascade falilure where lots of people made sub-optimal choices.
 
2013-08-06 08:53:22 AM

gilgigamesh: HotWingConspiracy: According to previous reports, Newell got a building permit from the township to have a storage structure on the property, but then built a dwelling without first getting a zoning permit or certificate of occupancy from the township.

Over the years, authorities have responded to Newell's property as a result of neighbor complaints and on one occasion in 2009 found human fecal matter in buckets there, according to previous reports in the Pocono Record.

The township determined he was improperly disposing of sewage with no septic system or permit for one.

Yeah they totally deserved to die for crossing this asshole.

And it went on for SEVENTEEN YEARS. I love that half or more of the people in this thread are actually defending this crazy fark out of sheer knee jerk reaction.


It's like looking in to a mirror for them.
 
2013-08-06 08:55:24 AM
People can't just mind their own farking business and they have to stick their nose into other people's business. This was the result of the Gladys Kravitz mentality of yuppies today who cannot stand other peoples' lifestyle. This guy is a martyr. the ones shot....oh well...
 
2013-08-06 08:59:58 AM

somedude210: SmackLT: So subby, you're saying that the town commissioners shouldn't have given this man the opportunity to discuss a dispute with them? Just roll right over the little guy without recourse? Seems harsh to me.

or you can argue that the town was in the wrong to begin with and shouldn't have pushed a guy to this point, but no, let's blame subby


No, actually, they weren't wrong.  I DNRTA, but I watched the news this morning.  Did you see what that guy's property looked like.  The council in question was WELL within their jurisdiction to have that property condemned.  If he could take the time to go and shoot a bunch of people up, he could have taken the time to clean his damn property - maybe even have a septic system installed.
 
2013-08-06 09:06:22 AM
Read this, it might change your mind:

Story about the dispute
 
2013-08-06 09:06:33 AM

gilgigamesh: HotWingConspiracy: According to previous reports, Newell got a building permit from the township to have a storage structure on the property, but then built a dwelling without first getting a zoning permit or certificate of occupancy from the township.

Over the years, authorities have responded to Newell's property as a result of neighbor complaints and on one occasion in 2009 found human fecal matter in buckets there, according to previous reports in the Pocono Record.

The township determined he was improperly disposing of sewage with no septic system or permit for one.

Yeah they totally deserved to die for crossing this asshole.

And it went on for SEVENTEEN YEARS. I love that half or more of the people in this thread are actually defending this crazy fark out of sheer knee jerk reaction.



This article has more context:
http://m.poconorecord.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20130610/NEWS/3 06 100327&template=wapart

Note the part where the township "modifies" paperwork after the guy has signed it. And where the state employee gives him false information that gets him into more trouble.

Basically, an old nearly homeless guy buys a piece of property to live in. NY bedroomers, mentioned before, don't like the dirty poor guy making their new McMansions look bad, so they have the township go after him. They finally got him. He didn't have shiat in buckets, he had a compost toilet because he couldn't afford basic services (god forbid they provide them to a guy with almost no income).

So they acted like little Eichmanns and now the chickens have come home to roost.

The guy wasn't hurting anybody. I guess he would've been better off in some homeless shelter with no property or belongings to his name right? Then at least the city folk wouldn't have had to look at him.

Lesson: Don't be different or they will get you one way or another.
 
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