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(Yahoo)   Like a has-been 80's hair-metal band, the Communist Party tries a comeback after discovering they're big in Japan   (news.yahoo.com) divider line 169
    More: Interesting, Communist Parties, Japan, Liberal Democratic Party, Naoto Kan, atomic bombings, metal band, fourth floor, independent candidates  
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3908 clicks; posted to Main » on 05 Aug 2013 at 3:41 PM (50 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-08-05 02:37:26 PM
1.bp.blogspot.com
 
2013-08-05 02:45:08 PM
You did what you did to me,now, it's history
 I see Here's my comeback on the road again
 Things will happen while they can
 I will wait here for my man tonight
 It's easy when you're big in Japan
 
2013-08-05 03:04:48 PM
I am really pulling for Communism/Socialism 2.0. The concept of a small group of people having a ludicrous amount of wealth for frankly not doing much of anything has got to change. And the future with its promise of automation is going to make it much more agreeable for people.
 
2013-08-05 03:21:29 PM

bdub77: I am really pulling for Communism/Socialism 2.0. The concept of a small group of people having a ludicrous amount of wealth for frankly not doing much of anything has got to change. And the future with its promise of automation is going to make it much more agreeable for people.


I dunno, COmmunism seems a little too all-pervasive and doomed to fail given human nature, may if there was some sort of halfway point, where Free-enterprise was allowed to function , but was closely constrained by government to work for the common good, and there was a heavy emphasis on civil society and the social safety net.  But whatever to call such a thing?
 
2013-08-05 03:45:18 PM
encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com
I've fallen to the Communists!
 
2013-08-05 03:45:30 PM
Ahead of his time:

a.abcnews.com
 
2013-08-05 03:48:15 PM
America is 90% of the way there, so why not Japan?
 
2013-08-05 03:48:53 PM

bdub77: I am really pulling for Communism/Socialism 2.0. The concept of a small group of people having a ludicrous amount of wealth for frankly not doing much of anything has got to change. And the future with its promise of automation is going to make it much more agreeable for people.


Who are you to decide what belongs to other people?
 
2013-08-05 03:52:51 PM

bdub77: The concept of a small group of people having a ludicrous amount of wealth for frankly not doing much of anything has got to change.


Like the Politburo?
 
2013-08-05 03:54:01 PM
I did a paper in college on the JCP or Komeito.  I think I got an "A" on it.  I even saw their HQ from the street (a regular business building, albeit sort of nice) sort of by coincidence on a trip to Tokyo.

Other than that, got nuthin.
 
2013-08-05 03:55:05 PM

Magorn: bdub77: I am really pulling for Communism/Socialism 2.0. The concept of a small group of people having a ludicrous amount of wealth for frankly not doing much of anything has got to change. And the future with its promise of automation is going to make it much more agreeable for people.

I dunno, COmmunism seems a little too all-pervasive and doomed to fail given human nature, may if there was some sort of halfway point, where Free-enterprise was allowed to function , but was closely constrained by government to work for the common good, and there was a heavy emphasis on civil society and the social safety net.  But whatever to call such a thing?


Ooh, how about societalism?
 
2013-08-05 03:55:36 PM

Magorn: f there was some sort of halfway point, where Free-enterprise was allowed to function , but was closely constrained by government to work for the common good,


Social Democracy.   Not a new idea, and it works where it's implemented.
 
2013-08-05 03:55:40 PM

bdub77: I am really pulling for Communism/Socialism 2.0. The concept of a small group of people having a ludicrous amount of wealth for frankly not doing much of anything has got to change. And the future with its promise of automation is going to make it much more agreeable for people.


You do realize communism basically ends up being the absolute, and much worse, embodiment of a small group of people having both a ludicrous amount of the wealth and power right?

The problem with communism is that while it *might* work in ideal circumstances, where everyone truly felt equal and everyone was 100% behind the party's agenda, the perfect circumstances are just never the case. Communism fails rapidly and spectacularly if there's even a shred of a social inequality - something that's almost a guarantee in the human existance.
 
2013-08-05 03:57:10 PM

STRYPERSWINE: bdub77: I am really pulling for Communism/Socialism 2.0. The concept of a small group of people having a ludicrous amount of wealth for frankly not doing much of anything has got to change. And the future with its promise of automation is going to make it much more agreeable for people.

Who are you to decide what belongs to other people?



Well who are you?  The very idea of private property relies on others recognizing it.  It doesn't exist in a vacuum.
 
2013-08-05 03:57:35 PM
Great. Now everyone will get the same level Pokemon regardless of how skilled other trainers are.

For a country full of Asians, this is incredibly stupid.
 
2013-08-05 03:58:19 PM

STRYPERSWINE: bdub77: I am really pulling for Communism/Socialism 2.0. The concept of a small group of people having a ludicrous amount of wealth for frankly not doing much of anything has got to change. And the future with its promise of automation is going to make it much more agreeable for people.

Who are you to decide what belongs to other people?


What gives you the right to own stuff?
 
2013-08-05 04:00:00 PM

EkimProx: Great. Now everyone will get the same level Pokemon regardless of how skilled other trainers are.

For a country full of Asians, this is incredibly stupid.


I think that's a "not cool" level of racism there, duder.
 
2013-08-05 04:00:24 PM
I am currently a member of the CPUSA.  I will be the first to admit that it has a terrible past and it is a terrible organization. They support democrats, they supported Stalin..... they have terrible policies. I joined knowing all of this. Why did I join?  I did so because they have a aging constituency.  The old guard is dying off and younger people are going to shape the CPUSA into a better organization and actual revolutionary organization and not one that just supports democrats in every election.  There are a few branches of the CPUSA in the US that actually have a revolutionary outlook and they have been rightly chastised for it.  I figured I would join trying to change the organization for the better and if I got kicked out, I could join the list of notable people that have been kicked out of the communist party.  I assume Japan is in the same boat as the CPUSA and many other parties throughout the world.  Hopefully they can right the ship and make it a great organization.

/rant off.
 
2013-08-05 04:03:07 PM

FarkedOver: I am currently a member of the CPUSA.  I will be the first to admit that it has a terrible past and it is a terrible organization. They support democrats, they supported Stalin..... they have terrible policies. I joined knowing all of this. Why did I join?  I did so because they have a aging constituency.  The old guard is dying off and younger people are going to shape the CPUSA into a better organization and actual revolutionary organization and not one that just supports democrats in every election.  There are a few branches of the CPUSA in the US that actually have a revolutionary outlook and they have been rightly chastised for it.  I figured I would join trying to change the organization for the better and if I got kicked out, I could join the list of notable people that have been kicked out of the communist party.  I assume Japan is in the same boat as the CPUSA and many other parties throughout the world.  Hopefully they can right the ship and make it a great organization.

/rant off.


/ugh fixed that for me.  Doing two things at once sucks.
 
2013-08-05 04:07:18 PM
I honestly cannot comprehend communism working in a land where people collect every flavor of Kit Kat because they must have ALL of them.
 
2013-08-05 04:07:45 PM

DarnoKonrad: STRYPERSWINE: bdub77: I am really pulling for Communism/Socialism 2.0. The concept of a small group of people having a ludicrous amount of wealth for frankly not doing much of anything has got to change. And the future with its promise of automation is going to make it much more agreeable for people.

Who are you to decide what belongs to other people?


Well who are you?  The very idea of private property relies on others recognizing it.  It doesn't exist in a vacuum.


Hush now, the property laws in force at this very instant are innate attributes of the universe with no history leading to this point or future changes possible ahead. If you disagree its just like you killed 47800000000 Ukrainians yourself.
 
2013-08-05 04:10:10 PM

Somaticasual: bdub77: I am really pulling for Communism/Socialism 2.0. The concept of a small group of people having a ludicrous amount of wealth for frankly not doing much of anything has got to change. And the future with its promise of automation is going to make it much more agreeable for people.

You do realize communism basically ends up being the absolute, and much worse, embodiment of a small group of people having both a ludicrous amount of the wealth and power right?

The problem with communism is that while it *might* work in ideal circumstances, where everyone truly felt equal and everyone was 100% behind the party's agenda, the perfect circumstances are just never the case. Communism fails rapidly and spectacularly if there's even a shred of a social inequality - something that's almost a guarantee in the human existance.


How is a small group of people with a ludicrous amount of wealth and power different than the current system exactly? If you say the chance to become wealthy then I'd say the same would exist in a corrupt nation state. Certainly the way in which communism has functioned in the post has generally not worked well. But perhaps that dynamic will eventually change.

Then again, perfect circumstances never exist. There is a ton of inequality in the current regime, and humanity is eventually going to separate out anyway. There's too much resistance to change, generational warfare, fear of the new, and too much acceptance of 2000 year old religions to avoid conflict.

Some people will simply dislike or fear the new paradigm. Just look at all the SciFi movies dealing with AI. Most often humanity was simply trying to reign in something it created that it could no longer control.

In the end, Posthumanism is probably going to happen. At which point, will you even have access to such a system? Will there simply be the Firsts, some group of elite wealthy overlords with their own armies of drones and power and an almost incomprehensible intelligence? I'm not the first person who has asked this question, I'm pretty sure there's an upcoming movie that addresses this topic.
 
2013-08-05 04:11:00 PM
i51.photobucket.com
 
2013-08-05 04:12:28 PM

bdub77: How is a small group of people with a ludicrous amount of wealth and power different than the current system exactly? If you say the chance to become wealthy then I'd say the same would exist in a corrupt nation state. Certainly the way in which communism has functioned in the post has generally not worked well. But perhaps that dynamic will eventually change.


If that dynamics changes, then communism is unnecessary.
 
2013-08-05 04:12:48 PM

Ned Stark: Hush now, the property laws in force at this very instant are innate attributes of the universe with no history leading to this point or future changes possible ahead. If you disagree its just like you killed 47800000000 Ukrainians yourself.


I posted a picture of Lenin last week.  Someone responded with the wikipedia entry on the Ukrainian Holodomor link.

I told him why he was an idiot.  I don't think it sunk in though.
 
2013-08-05 04:13:33 PM
The only problem I have with communism is it's controlled by the government. Yeah sure the government is suppose to be "for the people, by the people", and sure we're suppose to be the same, but we've seen how well that works. People don't want anymore responsibility, they don't want to have to contribute to their reigning body, they just want them to magically know what they want and other than that keep up the status quo.

Personally, I lend more towards socialist capitalism, were companies are owed by the workers and profit goes to those worker, instead of some distant investor.
 
2013-08-05 04:13:36 PM
Looks like they did well was because of two reasons, neither of which really have anything to do with communism:

1. They are anti-nuclear power plant and apparently always have been, which is now a popular policy position in Japan for obvious reasons.

2. The more mainstream opposition party, to use a nuclear metaphor, melted down.
 
2013-08-05 04:14:21 PM

tjsands1118: The only problem I have with communism is it's controlled by the government.


That is not communism.
 
2013-08-05 04:22:16 PM
Capitalism is at best a mixed blessing. That's all I'm going to say about it. I have met people who lived on the other side with communism and they said Never again! We like the right to rise above. The right to try for better. Sometimes you win sometimes you lose but we had fun trying at least.
 
2013-08-05 04:22:53 PM
The way this country is going I should be disgusted enough to sign up for party membership by the time I'm 50, comrade

workers of the world unite! dyslexics untie! the shackles of wage slavery can not be solved  by hating on the gays and kissing the ass of the plutocracy who feed you the crumbs and reality tv from their wall street towers of plenty.
 
2013-08-05 04:23:11 PM

The Muthaship: bdub77: The concept of a small group of people having a ludicrous amount of wealth for frankly not doing much of anything has got to change.

Like the Politburo?


No, see, that's because they didn't do it right.  All those places where they tried Communism and it failed, it wasn't true Communism.  Now, here's what we need to do, according to my dreamy Sociology teacher...
 
2013-08-05 04:24:17 PM

bdub77: How is a small group of people with a ludicrous amount of wealth and power different than the current system exactly? If you say the chance to become wealthy then I'd say the same would exist in a corrupt nation state. Certainly the way in which communism has functioned in the post has generally not worked well. But perhaps that dynamic will eventually change.


I'm not saying capitalism isn't flawed. But in capitalism, those same people *generally* don't also have the ability to imprison you and your entire family for dissent either. 
Again, human nature probably prevents communism from working in the long term, and I'd still say that dynamic isn't likely to change because of fundamental inequalities in how people think and act vs. one another.
 
2013-08-05 04:25:46 PM

FarkedOver: Ned Stark: Hush now, the property laws in force at this very instant are innate attributes of the universe with no history leading to this point or future changes possible ahead. If you disagree its just like you killed 47800000000 Ukrainians yourself.

I posted a picture of Lenin last week.  Someone responded with the wikipedia entry on the Ukrainian Holodomor link.

I told him why he was an idiot.  I don't think it sunk in though.


No he should have just sent you an link the Animal Farm or the mass executions Lenin carried out to remove the Tsar's people.  Sorry but your form of government is an abomination that has resulted in the deaths of hundreds of millions of people either through direct malice or shear incompotence.
 
2013-08-05 04:27:00 PM

JNowe: No, see, that's because they didn't do it right. All those places where they tried Communism and it failed, it wasn't true Communism. Now, here's what we need to do, according to my dreamy Sociology teacher...


Except when it starts working like the Paris Commune or in Spain prior to Franco and the capitalists getting butthurt over losing an election.  It can work, it has worked and then it is stamped out by capitalism, because it is a threat to the social order of things.  As long as capitalism exists, socialism and communism cannot work.  (That's not because capitalism is a better system, either.)
 
2013-08-05 04:27:20 PM

bdub77: In the end, Posthumanism is probably going to happen. At which point, will you even have access to such a system? Will there simply be the Firsts, some group of elite wealthy overlords with their own armies of drones and power and an almost incomprehensible intelligence? I'm not the first person who has asked this question, I'm pretty sure there's an upcoming movie that addresses this topic.


I'm thinking life is going to fastly start resembling Deus Ex

media1.gameinformer.com

/and as long as they still have single malt scotch, I am perfectly ok with this
 
2013-08-05 04:27:54 PM
They live like right next door to the Chinese, Vietnamese, and the Norks too, which only raises more questions.
 
2013-08-05 04:28:10 PM

ShadowKamui: No he should have just sent you an link the Animal Farm or the mass executions Lenin carried out to remove the Tsar's people. Sorry but your form of government is an abomination that has resulted in the deaths of hundreds of millions of people either through direct malice or shear incompotence.


So Russians died during the Russian Civil War and during the Russian Revolution?  Sit down son, but I have some bad news to tell you about Abraham Lincoln and what he did.
 
2013-08-05 04:28:28 PM
Saw these in a museum last year. Kinda freaked me out, but made me wonder...

Exhibit A

Exhibit B

hyperallergic.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com
 
2013-08-05 04:29:57 PM
Sounds all commune-y.
 
2013-08-05 04:29:58 PM

bdub77: Somaticasual: bdub77: I am really pulling for Communism/Socialism 2.0. The concept of a small group of people having a ludicrous amount of wealth for frankly not doing much of anything has got to change. And the future with its promise of automation is going to make it much more agreeable for people.

You do realize communism basically ends up being the absolute, and much worse, embodiment of a small group of people having both a ludicrous amount of the wealth and power right?

The problem with communism is that while it *might* work in ideal circumstances, where everyone truly felt equal and everyone was 100% behind the party's agenda, the perfect circumstances are just never the case. Communism fails rapidly and spectacularly if there's even a shred of a social inequality - something that's almost a guarantee in the human existance.

How is a small group of people with a ludicrous amount of wealth and power different than the current system exactly? If you say the chance to become wealthy then I'd say the same would exist in a corrupt nation state. Certainly the way in which communism has functioned in the post has generally not worked well. But perhaps that dynamic will eventually change.

Then again, perfect circumstances never exist. There is a ton of inequality in the current regime, and humanity is eventually going to separate out anyway. There's too much resistance to change, generational warfare, fear of the new, and too much acceptance of 2000 year old religions to avoid conflict.

Some people will simply dislike or fear the new paradigm. Just look at all the SciFi movies dealing with AI. Most often humanity was simply trying to reign in something it created that it could no longer control.

In the end, Posthumanism is probably going to happen. At which point, will you even have access to such a system? Will there simply be the Firsts, some group of elite wealthy overlords with their own armies of drones and power and an almost incomprehensible intelligenc ...


Most people believe the first communist state in history was Russia In 1917, but it wasn't.  The very first communist society in recorded history were the Spartans so beloved by so many right-wingers these days.  Each Spartiate was given exactly the same amount of land with which to support themselves and commerce by the men was outright banned.  Further, any excess wealth created by one Spartiate household beyond the amount owned by others was taken by the state and re-distributed equally  Children belonged to the state and were taken away from thier parents to be educated in State-run schools at a very early age.

And, just like modern Communism, the entire thing depended on a small group of privileged folks living off the labor of a vast pool of slaves.  Slaves who were kept in line by sheer terror of the state which routinely culled, often in secret in the dead of night,  any slave thought to be a threat, or even to have the potential to become one.  In fact, the name of the organization that carried out this terror, the Cryptea, literally directly translates as "Secret Police"

in 3000 + years of  trying , Communism has never managed to create a state that didn't devolve into exactly this-a terror-fueled police state.   It only works on a small, voluntary scale, when done by very like-minded people.    Once coercive power gets involved it always degenerates into this.
 
2013-08-05 04:30:08 PM

FarkedOver: JNowe: No, see, that's because they didn't do it right. All those places where they tried Communism and it failed, it wasn't true Communism. Now, here's what we need to do, according to my dreamy Sociology teacher...

Except when it starts working like the Paris Commune or in Spain prior to Franco and the capitalists getting butthurt over losing an election.  It can work, it has worked and then it is stamped out by capitalism, because it is a threat to the social order of things.  As long as capitalism exists, socialism and communism cannot work.  (That's not because capitalism is a better system, either.)


So you're saying it failed.
 
2013-08-05 04:30:24 PM

FarkedOver: So Russians died during the Russian Civil War and during the Russian Revolution? Sit down son, but I have some bad news to tell you about Abraham Lincoln and what he did.


Anyone else find it funny that we yell loudly at dictators who try to quell insurrection using violence and yet at the same time have a statue of a man who quelled an insurrection and rebellion using violence and suspending key parts of the constitution?

Just saying, glass house and stones and all that
 
2013-08-05 04:31:59 PM

JNowe: FarkedOver: JNowe: No, see, that's because they didn't do it right. All those places where they tried Communism and it failed, it wasn't true Communism. Now, here's what we need to do, according to my dreamy Sociology teacher...

Except when it starts working like the Paris Commune or in Spain prior to Franco and the capitalists getting butthurt over losing an election.  It can work, it has worked and then it is stamped out by capitalism, because it is a threat to the social order of things.  As long as capitalism exists, socialism and communism cannot work.  (That's not because capitalism is a better system, either.)

So you're saying it failed.


Keep reading and you just might answer your own question....
 
2013-08-05 04:33:36 PM

JNowe: FarkedOver: JNowe: No, see, that's because they didn't do it right. All those places where they tried Communism and it failed, it wasn't true Communism. Now, here's what we need to do, according to my dreamy Sociology teacher...

Except when it starts working like the Paris Commune or in Spain prior to Franco and the capitalists getting butthurt over losing an election.  It can work, it has worked and then it is stamped out by capitalism, because it is a threat to the social order of things.  As long as capitalism exists, socialism and communism cannot work.  (That's not because capitalism is a better system, either.)

So you're saying it failed.


No, no, no.

It was sabotaged by evil capitalists who refused to allow a steady stream of trade and goods to communist countries and tempted the weak willed with their higher standard of living and lack of famines.

Communism would work perfectly if everyone in the world just followed it and never look towards any form of competing economic thought.
 
2013-08-05 04:33:39 PM

IdBeCrazyIf: FarkedOver: So Russians died during the Russian Civil War and during the Russian Revolution? Sit down son, but I have some bad news to tell you about Abraham Lincoln and what he did.

Anyone else find it funny that we yell loudly at dictators who try to quell insurrection using violence and yet at the same time have a statue of a man who quelled an insurrection and rebellion using violence and suspending key parts of the constitution?

Just saying, glass house and stones and all that


What Lenin did was no better or worse than what Lincoln did or what the founding fathers did. Why people demonize him goes to show you how badly brainwashed the American public is about other schools of thought that seem "Unamerican".
 
2013-08-05 04:34:41 PM

Somaticasual: bdub77: How is a small group of people with a ludicrous amount of wealth and power different than the current system exactly? If you say the chance to become wealthy then I'd say the same would exist in a corrupt nation state. Certainly the way in which communism has functioned in the post has generally not worked well. But perhaps that dynamic will eventually change.

I'm not saying capitalism isn't flawed. But in capitalism, those same people *generally* don't also have the ability to imprison you and your entire family for dissent either. 
Again, human nature probably prevents communism from working in the long term, and I'd still say that dynamic isn't likely to change because of fundamental inequalities in how people think and act vs. one another.


That's not true communism. I think I'd argue that communism works better when it's a distributed system, not a planned economy. I think the idea is that we get to a point in which humans are not quite as terrible as they currently are (I call this posthuman), at which point communism simply works better. Even now I don't know how to comprehend what could potentially happen in the next 30-40 years. What if a technology existed tomorrow that enabled you to put a device on your head and read and understand a book as a text file in 3 seconds and retain that memory forever? Yet we're still biatching about how Google Glass is going to make people into photo-taking pricks.
 
2013-08-05 04:35:10 PM

FarkedOver: JNowe: FarkedOver: JNowe: No, see, that's because they didn't do it right. All those places where they tried Communism and it failed, it wasn't true Communism. Now, here's what we need to do, according to my dreamy Sociology teacher...

Except when it starts working like the Paris Commune or in Spain prior to Franco and the capitalists getting butthurt over losing an election.  It can work, it has worked and then it is stamped out by capitalism, because it is a threat to the social order of things.  As long as capitalism exists, socialism and communism cannot work.  (That's not because capitalism is a better system, either.)

So you're saying it failed.

Keep reading and you just might answer your own question....


More like, as long as human behavior exists, socialism and communism cannot work.
 
2013-08-05 04:36:19 PM

JNowe: More like, as long as human behavior exists, socialism and communism cannot work.


Which human behavior? I've seen humans behave in a number of different ways.
 
2013-08-05 04:36:22 PM
JNowe:
"No, see, that's because they didn't do it right.  All those places where they tried Communism and it failed, it wasn't true Communism. "

That argument always makes me giggle a little bit
 
2013-08-05 04:37:33 PM
Anarcho-syndicalism is the only way. Communism fails as it is too authoritarian - and getting the authoritatians to leave power is next to impossible.
 
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