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(Bleacher Report)   Whether or not Johnny Manziel sold autographs for cash, he isn't the problem; the archaic NCAA rules on 'amateurism' are   (bleacherreport.com ) divider line
    More: Obvious, Johnny Manziel, NCAA, amateurism, collegiate sports, flat fee, Heisman Trophy, sports memorabilia  
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1030 clicks; posted to Sports » on 05 Aug 2013 at 12:43 PM (2 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-08-05 11:03:15 AM  
Johnny Football is quickly turning into Johnny Trainwreck
 
2013-08-05 11:29:49 AM  
This is bs. I hate Texas A&M. Hate them with a burning passion. But you got to feel for the guys that are playing the game. He was signing autographs! He wasn't playing for money.

There has to be some way to get these guys some fair compensation for what they are doing to themselves. A free ride to college just doesn't cover the nut on this one.
 
2013-08-05 11:36:05 AM  

The Stealth Hippopotamus: This is bs. I hate Texas A&M. Hate them with a burning passion. But you got to feel for the guys that are playing the game. He was signing autographs! He wasn't playing for money.

There has to be some way to get these guys some fair compensation for what they are doing to themselves. A free ride to college just doesn't cover the nut on this one.


Invalid point.  Doesn't need the money.  Didn't need a scholarship.  Parents are loaded.  He knew what he was doing and knew it was against the rules.  Rules that apparently don't apply to "Johnny Football" apparently do.
 
2013-08-05 11:43:49 AM  
He didn't get a tattoo, did he?
 
2013-08-05 12:16:08 PM  

Fo Shiz: Invalid point. Doesn't need the money. Didn't need a scholarship. Parents are loaded. He knew what he was doing and knew it was against the rules. Rules that apparently don't apply to "Johnny Football" apparently do.


1) You don't get to say what someone needs
2) Parents money doesn't equal your money
3) I know it's a rule, that's why I say it's bs
 
2013-08-05 12:48:48 PM  

Aar1012: He didn't get a tattoo, did he?


black man... autographs for tattoos, suspend the team from bowl games for a year.
white man... autographs for cash, lets question the system that takes advantage of this poor youth.
 
2013-08-05 12:49:02 PM  

Aar1012: He didn't get a tattoo, did he?


Maybe he spent some of that money on a tattoo.  Expect the hammer to fall anytime now...
 
2013-08-05 12:53:39 PM  

The Stealth Hippopotamus: 3) I know it's a rule, that's why I say it's bs


It was a rule he agreed to when he got an academic scholarship at TAMU. Calling a rule a BS rule doesn't invalidate the rule.
 
2013-08-05 12:54:25 PM  
Schools can't pay players, but if the local car wash or grocery store has a "Local State University" football autograph day where every player is paid $50,000 to appear, the playing field across college athletics would appear to be anything but level.

I have never fully understood this point. Are student-athletes on the school's gymnastic or volleyball (or some other usually not-nearly-as-lucrative sport) squads really going to be "jealous"? And if they are...so? Welcome to capitalism, kids. Some "things" in life are simply more profitable and marketable than others.

I was in college once, too, having to work several hours on the side just for beer money and for sometimes treating myself to something more robust than Top Ramen for dinner. I wouldn't have given a single dry turd who else on campus was doing what.
 
2013-08-05 01:00:34 PM  
The NCAA has to ensure no one makes money from the players but them.
 
2013-08-05 01:01:18 PM  
If you want to fight the rule and call the NCAA stupid, go right ahead.  But don't act like Manziel is a victim here if he's brazenly violated the rules he agreed to when he signed his scholarship agreement.
 
2013-08-05 01:02:14 PM  
I am rooting for this kid to fail this season.  Dont really give a shiat what he does after that.
 
2013-08-05 01:02:23 PM  
Johnny is definitely a problem, but yes the NCAA is THE problem
 
2013-08-05 01:02:24 PM  
Eh, He was profiting off the reputation of the school without giving them a cut of the profits. He's not an innocent. 3 year postseason ban for the school, and he's declared ineligible for the rest of his lifetime.
 
182
2013-08-05 01:03:11 PM  

Peter von Nostrand: Johnny Football is quickly turning into Johnny Trainwreck


this story stinks all to high hell.  these memorabilia "brokers" are shifty and might be trying to b.s. money from the manziels and/or the media.  kid didn't need the money....it makes no sense.  but then again, he's made some stupid decisions off the field.
 
2013-08-05 01:03:37 PM  

Yanks_RSJ: If you want to fight the rule and call the NCAA stupid, go right ahead.  But don't act like Manziel is a victim here if he's brazenly violated the rules he agreed to when he signed his scholarship agreement.


I think it's bullshiat that they can't make money from autographs, but pretty much this.
 
2013-08-05 01:06:28 PM  

Killer Cars: Schools can't pay players, but if the local car wash or grocery store has a "Local State University" football autograph day where every player is paid $50,000 to appear, the playing field across college athletics would appear to be anything but level.

I have never fully understood this point. Are student-athletes on the school's gymnastic or volleyball (or some other usually not-nearly-as-lucrative sport) squads really going to be "jealous"? And if they are...so? Welcome to capitalism, kids. Some "things" in life are simply more profitable and marketable than others.

I was in college once, too, having to work several hours on the side just for beer money and for sometimes treating myself to something more robust than Top Ramen for dinner. I wouldn't have given a single dry turd who else on campus was doing what.


He's not talking about athletes within the same school, but rather the playing field between schools.

Boosters ARE the school anyway. The money is fungible.
 
2013-08-05 01:06:53 PM  

Yanks_RSJ: If you want to fight the rule and call the NCAA stupid, go right ahead.  But don't act like Manziel is a victim here if he's brazenly violated the rules he agreed to when he signed his scholarship agreement.


Hell, given Manziel's actions and words, it doesn't take much intellectual muscle to read between the lines and realize he really, truly, doesn't give too much of a f*ck about Texas A&M or the "collegiate experience" in general.

I think he'd be just as happy to be ruled ineligible and be a full time playboy for a year, traveling the world on Daddy's dime (and whatever he can make on his own) before trying his luck in the NFL.
 
2013-08-05 01:07:30 PM  
sure wish i had had a full-ride scholarship.
 
2013-08-05 01:07:49 PM  

MugzyBrown: Johnny is definitely a problem, but yes the NCAA is THE problem


The NCAA is the member schools. It does not exist on its own, is intentionally under-staffed and under-funded and is a intentional scape goat for the members' presidents.
 
2013-08-05 01:09:16 PM  
I am an Aggie.

I am grateful for what the guy has done on the field, but i hate his off the field antics.

I think both the NCAA and Johnny Dumbass are wrong here.
 
2013-08-05 01:09:37 PM  

Fo Shiz: Invalid point. Doesn't need the money. Didn't need a scholarship. Parents are loaded. He knew what he was doing and knew it was against the rules. Rules that apparently don't apply to "Johnny Football" apparently do.


To hell with whether he knew it was against the rules. The rules need changing.
 
2013-08-05 01:10:55 PM  
Look, the NCAA is pretty terrible, I get it. But unless you're just going to chuck any and all pretense of amateurism and let schools openly bid for players, getting all righteous about selling autographs is stupid. If the NCAA allowed something like this, how long until some 'Bama or Texas alumn is arranging Autograph Days for recruits, and they either hand them a $20k check, or they lineup 10k "fans" who just so happen to have $20 burning a hole in their pockets.

They're either amateurs or they're pro's, you can't half-ass this. Anything that tries to be both is just going to give schools/boosters an opportunity to be shady.
 
2013-08-05 01:11:20 PM  

Killer Cars: Yanks_RSJ: If you want to fight the rule and call the NCAA stupid, go right ahead.  But don't act like Manziel is a victim here if he's brazenly violated the rules he agreed to when he signed his scholarship agreement.

Hell, given Manziel's actions and words, it doesn't take much intellectual muscle to read between the lines and realize he really, truly, doesn't give too much of a f*ck about Texas A&M or the "collegiate experience" in general.

I think he'd be just as happy to be ruled ineligible and be a full time playboy for a year, traveling the world on Daddy's dime (and whatever he can make on his own) before trying his luck in the NFL.


Probably wouldn't hurt his draft stock one iota anyway.  If a team needs a QB and likes what he does in workouts, he'll be just fine even if he doesn't take another snap in College Station.
 
2013-08-05 01:13:49 PM  

Yanks_RSJ: Probably wouldn't hurt his draft stock one iota anyway. If a team needs a QB and likes what he does in workouts, he'll be just fine even if he doesn't take another snap in College Station.


agree, but do you see him as a pro quarterback?  i see him as a slightly slower version of michael vick...who will get decimated when he tries to scramble in the pros.
 
2013-08-05 01:14:38 PM  

Yanks_RSJ: Probably wouldn't hurt his draft stock one iota anyway. If a team needs a QB and likes what he does in workouts, he'll be just fine even if he doesn't take another snap in College Station.


The year off is going to drop him well off where he'd normally be projected. I wouldn't be surprised to see him drop out of the first round entirely over that alone. Football doesn't tolerate players being out of the game for long.
 
2013-08-05 01:15:21 PM  

stir22: agree, but do you see him as a pro quarterback?


Not really, no.  But another season of college football can only expose more faults, he'd do better to rest on his Heisman season, have his "pro day" workout and do interviews, then hope the Browns do something stupid, which they undoubtedly will.
 
2013-08-05 01:15:29 PM  
If the NCAA is going to come down hard on players who sell a pair of shoes they were given two years earlier, or went out to dinner with an agent but let the agent pay, then they better come down harder on something like this. Frankly, I'm with a lot of you who think the system sucks, but this does not sound like an accident. If the accusations are correct, then he knew what he was doing and knew it was wrong, and the money was not a trivial amount, either.
 
2013-08-05 01:15:47 PM  
HIs size already hurts, but you wonder if he's trying to make himself even less appealing so he doesn't go to a perennial loser.  He just has Oakland Raider bust written all over him.  I like the Raiders enough to not want this for them.
 
2013-08-05 01:16:44 PM  
Didn't the NCAA rule that Mr. Spoiled-pants had ownership over the name "Johnny Football" and could do with it as he wanted?  I believe his family wanted to sell T-Shirts with that name on it.

But a wrestler for Minnesota can't use his own name to start a music career that has nothing to do with his academic/athletic career.

/Yeah NCAA!
 
2013-08-05 01:18:39 PM  

Gosling: The year off is going to drop him well off where he'd normally be projected


What is his current draft projection? You have size & arm strength concerns, plus you're not exactly looking at the most mature individual in the world to begin with.

The only thing I see in his favor is with NFL teams adopting more read option, mobile-QB friendly offensive schemes, but that's still a "new hotness" which this offseason is probably the first where every NFL team is also dedicating themselves in learning schemes in how to stop it.
 
2013-08-05 01:18:40 PM  

Gosling: Fo Shiz: Invalid point. Doesn't need the money. Didn't need a scholarship. Parents are loaded. He knew what he was doing and knew it was against the rules. Rules that apparently don't apply to "Johnny Football" apparently do.

To hell with whether he knew it was against the rules. The rules need changing.


Charging 10K for autographs on the DL does not seem like civil disobedience.
 
2013-08-05 01:20:14 PM  

Nana's Vibrator: He just has Oakland Raider bust written all over him.


as a Raiders fan since the miracle  season of george blanda in 1970, i got a kick out of that.
 
2013-08-05 01:22:03 PM  
I motion we give him a new nick name.  Johnny Cash is available.
 
2013-08-05 01:27:08 PM  
I think players should be paid -- it's almost a modern day form of indentured servitude..

Anyway, let's suppose that we all agree that players shouldn't be paid for PLAYING, and let's talk about autographs.  Why can't he profit from signing an autograph?  No matter how you slice it, signing an autograph is similar to providing a good or service, just like if I were to get paid for walking your dog or making your breakfast at a diner.

If his autograph is worth something in a market, how can the NCAA say they have the power to prevent him from getting paid for his services?  It is NOT any different from him getting a part time job at Burger King and getting paid for making fries.  He's providing a service, plain and simple.  It doesn't matter if you think the autograph is "easy to do" or anything like that.  It's a service, and he should get paid what people are willing to pay for the service.

So many people clamor about the minimum wage and how it should be raised.  Ever do the math on how much college athletes "earn" (scholarship, training, etc.) compared to the time they put in?  It's not pretty, and it's less than minimum wage.  In addition, the "work" comes with a LOT more restrictions.

// disclaimer -- I am not a Manziel fan.  I just think the NCAA player and money policies are ridiculous.
 
2013-08-05 01:31:29 PM  
Since Manziel might not win his second Heisman, I propose a new college football award to be named after him.
The "Johnny Football Award" for the biggest D-bag in NCCA football. This annual award to be given to the player who throws away their career in a spectacular way. Nominations open to all players who violate NCAA rules, get arrested, etc.
 
2013-08-05 01:33:01 PM  
Manziel is shaping up to be a must-see "30-for-30."
 
2013-08-05 01:33:14 PM  
Meh, I kind of like watching the kid play, hell, he dismantled my Sooners in dramatic fashion.  It may not apply to Johnny Football as his parents are financially doing okay, but for a lot of those kids (and yeah, they are kids), they don't have two quarters to rub together.  At least give them some spending money, date money or some such.

/know I'm in the minority here
 
2013-08-05 01:36:01 PM  

Browncoat: It was a rule he agreed to when he got an academic scholarship


Yanks_RSJ: he agreed to when he signed his scholarship agreement


Honest question: Do these rules only apply to scholarship students? If a regular tuition-paying student tried out for the team as a walk-on and made the team, could he sign autographs?

 - if yes, then a company/agency/bank should "invest" in student-athletes, paying their tuition in exchange for a cut of any income or initial pro contract, so that student-athletes wouldn't have to worry about these rules

 -  if no, then why does everybody bring up the scholarship like that has anything to do with this argument?
 
2013-08-05 01:37:35 PM  

Bermuda59: Since Manziel might not win his second Heisman, I propose a new college football award to be named after him.
The "Johnny Football Award" for the biggest D-bag in NCCA football. This annual award to be given to the player who throws away their career in a spectacular way. Nominations open to all players who violate NCAA rules, get arrested, etc.


Maurice Clarrett won that a few years ago...
 
2013-08-05 01:38:55 PM  
NCAA violations are SEC country.
 
2013-08-05 01:40:54 PM  
bama wants to make sure a&m doesnt have a chance to beat them this year.

/students deserve compensation
//but put it into an untouchable retirement account
 
2013-08-05 01:43:59 PM  
Give the players a small-moderate monthly stipend for living allowance and such ($1,400? $2,000?), maintain scholarships,  and loosen the rules on stuff like this. The sooner we stop pretending that these are pure, innocent, "student athletes" and accept that they're semi-pro's representing schools in high dollar entertainment, the better.
 
2013-08-05 01:44:45 PM  
While 99% of the time I am on the side of the athletes, especially when the NCAA and member schools are pulling in billions a year from marketing the kids all over the place, in this case I have the rule on the side of the NCAA.

In a lot of the cases you could argue the kid or the coach did not know a rule and was unfairly targetted or the NCAA just doesn't have a clue about anything.  I'm thinking specifically of a story years ago when Chris Wienke was the QB for FSU.  He had made a couple million in a signing bonus from an MLB team, washed out and went back to school to play FB.  He took his whole o-line out to a nice dinner after a game and the NCAA started looking in to how a college kid could afford a few thousand dollar tab at a 5 star restaurant.  Took 2 months before the NCAA figured out he got the money on his own and it was not from a booster, hanger on or agent.

BUT, in this case, Johnny Football had to know asking for money for his autograph as a college athlete was an issue.  Asking for 5 figures, definately a problem.  Also makes you wonder about his claim, when he had courtside tickets for an NBA game, that it was from his parents.  Maybe he bought them with the money from signing the autographs.
 
2013-08-05 01:45:49 PM  
ITT: People who have no discernible talents or skills get mad when people are capable of making money off of theirs at a young age.
 
2013-08-05 01:45:52 PM  

T.rex: Aar1012: He didn't get a tattoo, did he?

black man... autographs for tattoos, suspend the team from bowl games for a year.
white man... autographs for cash, lets question the system that takes advantage of this poor youth.


Players should be allowed to sign endorsement deals.  Period.  They don't have to get paid by the program, but if Adidas, Gatorade, or even Bob's local Ford dealership want to pay him to be in a commercial, so be it.

Now, until they change the rules and eliminate this asinine policy, then players have to be reprimanded according to the rules...unfortunately, the NCAA has proven it's impossible for them to apply the rules fairly, and it has everything to do with the color green, not black or white.  So for THAT reason, I have a hard time giving a shiat.

As for the crack about Ohio State and their postseason ban...yes, players got tattoos and cash for memorabilia.  But that wasn't what really got the program on probation, was it?  It had a little something to do with their coach being told the players had committed violations, and instead of going directly to the athletic department's compliance office, he sat on the information, trying to sweep it under the rug.  When the NCAA found out that Tressel knew and didn't do anything about it, they had to bring the hammer down.
 
2013-08-05 01:47:15 PM  
I got A&M under 9.5 REGULAR SEASON wins at 10/11. Am I a badass or a fool?
 
2013-08-05 01:51:35 PM  

skrame: if no, then why does everybody bring up the scholarship like that has anything to do with this argument?


It's a figure of speech used to represent his decision to play college football for an NCAA institution.  It would be more accurate to reference the NCAA Eligibility Clearinghouse, which I assume applies to walk-ons as well.
 
2013-08-05 01:52:08 PM  
The NCAA is one of the best monopolies going in America today and it needs to be abolished.

Here's how the NCAA operates: the NCAA prohibits schools or anyone else from paying players a salary. This, in turn, boosts the profitability of athletic departments at member schools. The chief function of the NCAA is to suppress financial competition and funnel more profits into the coffers of its members.

Now, some will try to say that no one is forcing the players to pay and if they need money that badly, they should just get a job. Here's the problem: if you're one of the few college athletes that goes pro in a revenue generating sport, you have to play NCAA football (3 years at least, per NFL rules) and the same is basically true for basketball (1 year, although you can try the Brandon Jennings plan and go international for a year - though I don't see the top prospects lined up to do this). In other words, you basically have to go to college to have any chance of going pro unless you're an international prospect.

Further, the NCAA hurts many other athletes who simply don't have the talent to go pro. Without the NCAA, these athletes could possibly make a lot of money playing college football or basketball. With the NCAA around, though, that student will stay poor. Why should Nebraska capitalize on a legend like Tommie Frazier's talent while he never saw a dime? It's immoral.

The worst is how the NCAA has somehow succeeded in claiming the moral high ground. The NCAA has somehow succeeded in turning schools and boosters that try to pay players into the real evildoers rather than the cartel enforcers who keep student athletes from getting paid. It's a real disgrace.
 
2013-08-05 01:56:16 PM  

Mike_LowELL: ITT: People who have no discernible talents or skills get mad when people are capable of making money off of theirs at a young age.


Or, more accurately, people ITT eye-rolling as a Heisman winner breaks the rules he himself agreed to before putting on pads.
 
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