If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.

(Business Insider)   75 Cleveland police shoot an unarmed, innocent couple a total of 137 times. Police department's response? To "discipline" them   (businessinsider.com) divider line 66
    More: Sick, Cleveland Police, Ohio Attorney General, Mike DeWine, disciplines  
•       •       •

21971 clicks; posted to Main » on 05 Aug 2013 at 7:42 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



Voting Results (Smartest)
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

2013-08-05 07:47:29 AM  
6 votes:
Nineteen of the 75 officers facing discipline for offenses ranging from engaging in a chase without permission to providing false information on police reports will have disciplinary hearings and might be suspended temporarily, according to The Plain Dealer.

Fark you!

Ever wonder where these "cop hate" thread come from? Well, here you go.
2013-08-05 06:54:25 AM  
6 votes:

Frederick: Screw you Pamela Engel for a horribly written article.

I cant tell if there was four people shot or two people shot.

"The pair were shot at 137 times while in their car..."
"One suspect, 30-year-old Malissa Williams, was shot 24 times, and the other, 43-year-old Timothy Russell, was shot 23 times."


Pretty sure that means the other 90 bullets missed. These are police officers, after all, not gun enthusiasts or properly trained shooters.
2013-08-05 08:33:46 AM  
5 votes:
Well, for one thing, police chases are farking stupid. The police doing the chasing are just escalating a situation rather than defusing it. But every johnny idiot podunk moron with a badge watches too much 70s police drama and has to get in their own high speed chase.

Secondly, only the most loathsome idiot would try and claim that a little coke and weed means you deserve to be shot 30 times. How many rich, white, elites would we need to gun down if that were so?

Cops are the enemies of the American people. They have militarized themselves and consider people as prey, and are just looking for an excuse to vent their misanthropy. They'll shoot your little dog for no reason. They'll toss your grandmas house on a false tip.
2013-08-05 08:06:53 AM  
5 votes:

vladimpaler: "innocent couple"?

Innocent people are not high on cocaine, driving on an suspended license, and running from the police.


Innocent people don't file false information on official documents either, but they seem to keep getting away with it.
Remember that the next time a cop decides to fark up your day just for the fun of it.
2013-08-05 07:53:05 AM  
4 votes:
FTA:  "The officers being disciplined for violating police protocol won't lose their jobs and did not partake in the gunfight at the end of the chase, but they did have a role in the pursuit."

Situation is still farked up and quite possibly the actual shooters will get off lightly as well, but that doesn't make subby's headline any less misleading.
2013-08-05 11:20:23 AM  
3 votes:

gglibertine: Oh, for christ's sake, people. The victims were moronic scumbags who ran from the police, the cops were moronic scumbags who went all shock 'n awe on a couple of unarmed moronic scumbags.

I think in this case, we should all be able to agree that both sides were bad.


Sure.  Now in the aftermath, I've noticed that ONE side is dead, executed in public.  Since BOTH sides were bad, how can we even things up in the here and now, whatwith one side publicly executed and the other not just still breathing, but still being paid by our taxes.

/things that make you go hmmmmmmmm
2013-08-05 09:00:05 AM  
3 votes:
If they've got 100 cops available to chase down 2 druggies then the police force in cleveland is far too large.
2013-08-05 08:11:04 AM  
3 votes:
The average American is exponentially more likely to be injured or killed by 'our' police than by a terrorist.
2013-08-05 08:08:10 AM  
3 votes:
FTFA: The pair were shot at 137 times while in their car, parked in a middle school parking lot. No officers were injured in what police called a full blown-out" firefight.

Please excuse me, but how the fark can you have a "firefight" with unarmed persons?  Please tell us, we're eager to hear your explanation.
2013-08-05 07:58:00 AM  
3 votes:
"innocent couple"?

Innocent people are not high on cocaine, driving on an suspended license, and running from the police.
2013-08-05 07:56:28 AM  
3 votes:

Bit'O'Gristle: Sucks to be them, but don't get all hopped up on drugs and run from the cops for hours, putting everyone's lives at risk, but nobody is saying anything about that. What if they had hit your wife and children while running from the cops in their car? And killed them? You probably wouldn't mind the cops firing them up then.


What if the cops hit my wife and children while chasing a car that backfired? What if my wife and kids were shot by the cops bullets? What if it turns out that YOU killed my wife and kids?
2013-08-05 07:52:39 AM  
3 votes:
Just because they were found unarmed doesn't mean they never were.. But hey, let's not let simple things like that stop us from raging at cops in the morning.
2013-08-05 07:50:13 AM  
3 votes:
Police state.
2013-08-05 07:48:16 AM  
3 votes:

dickfreckle: I'll never understand why it takes 60 police vehicles to chase one car. This isn't the Blues Brothers.


They're a gang, and gang members stick together when one their own is threatened with a backfiring exhaust.
2013-08-05 04:08:50 AM  
3 votes:
America is a farking nightmare.  It deserves the worse the world can offer.
2013-08-05 10:59:05 AM  
2 votes:

Loren: Exactly. The military calls it the fog of war, there is no civilian term even though the same thing happens.


That's because even the dumbest cop should be able to figure out that he's not on a battlefield.
Skr
2013-08-05 09:32:56 AM  
2 votes:
Firefight? One party shooting at non shooters is more of a firing squad.
2013-08-05 09:14:14 AM  
2 votes:

Popcorn Johnny: The woman had over 50 contacts with police and dozens of arrests prior to this, excuse me if I don't shed a tear.

Link


Ah. So it's okay then. You know, because execution without a trial is the preferred criminal justice method in the US.
2013-08-05 08:58:14 AM  
2 votes:
Want to get away with murder? Join the police force!
2013-08-05 08:00:26 AM  
2 votes:

vladimpaler: "innocent couple"?

Innocent people are not high on cocaine, driving on an suspended license, and running from the police.


Well, if you are given the death penalty for a crime you didn't commit, the correct response isn't "yeah but he wasn't innocent because he had a suspended license"
2013-08-05 07:55:09 AM  
2 votes:

enry: Popcorn Johnny: The woman had over 50 contacts with police and dozens of arrests prior to this, excuse me if I don't shed a tear.

Link

I don't see anything there that justifies her being shot 24 times.


She was a member of the rebel alliance and a traitor.
2013-08-05 07:54:12 AM  
2 votes:

Popcorn Johnny: The woman had over 50 contacts with police and dozens of arrests prior to this, excuse me if I don't shed a tear.

Link


I don't see anything there that justifies her being shot 24 times.
2013-08-05 11:41:00 PM  
1 votes:

JuggleGeek: What do you propose? Anyone that doesn't want to get arrested can just flip off the cops and drive like a bat out of hell and the cops should just let you go?


False dilemma. Believe it or not, there IS a middle ground between "shoot them to death" and "let them go".
2013-08-05 04:14:05 PM  
1 votes:
Drunk, high on coke and pot, with a suspended drivers license, running from the cops when they try to pull you over.

It doesn't sound like the cops handled this well, but for the dead druggies, it's really hard to find much sympathy.
2013-08-05 02:23:24 PM  
1 votes:

NutWrench: Nineteen of the 75 officers facing discipline for offenses ranging from engaging in a chase without permission to providing false information on police reports will have disciplinary hearings and might be suspended temporarily, according to The Plain Dealer.

Fark you!

Ever wonder where these "cop hate" thread come from? Well, here you go.


Vangor: Nineteen of the 75 officers facingdiscipline for offenses ranging from engaging in a chase without permission to providing false information on police reports will have disciplinary hearings and might be suspended temporarily, according to The Plain Dealer.

...Suspended temporarily for joining a police chase without permission? You are therefore leaving your patrol and using department resources unnecessarily as well as complicating the direction of other resources which is possibly dangerous during high speed pursuits. There were sixty vehicles in the end; not as though you are an action hero who won't let the perp get away. Then to provide false information on the report.

Sh*t needs to happen there.


If ever I saw a cop face justice, I'd stop instantly hating all cops.
2013-08-05 01:50:15 PM  
1 votes:
What was running through the thick-skulled and overzealous copper's "brains":  'Dispatch said we gonna bag some big criminals.  We gonna be famous!!!"

assets.nydailynews.com

Favorite quote from article, "Officers told investigators they saw the suspects in the car with what looked like a gun."  Which is police code for anything visible to the naked eye.
2013-08-05 12:44:14 PM  
1 votes:

skozlaw: theflatline: Read more:http://www.businessinsider.com/cleveland-police-disciplined-in-d eadly- chase-2013-8#ixzz2b6it56Qc

Heh... wrong citation in the wrong direction. He claimed the amounts were 'trace' but none of the links seem to say that in relation to anything but the THC in the passenger's blood. They all either outright state or imply that the driver was high as a kite and possibly drunk as well.


Actually, those reporters may have set themselves up for a serious slander/libel suit, unless the tox screen backs them up.   The cops didn't allege weaving, which you'd expect from a DUI suspect.

The driver is high as a kite, ran a stop sign, but kept it between the lines?  Please.
2013-08-05 12:23:52 PM  
1 votes:

snocone: "Backfire" o, rly?
Most of you have never seen a backfire in your life. They went out of use in like 1970 when engine controls started their incremental climb.


Most recent one I remember was in 1991. A K-Car.
2013-08-05 12:16:38 PM  
1 votes:

skozlaw: theflatline: Read more:http://www.businessinsider.com/cleveland-police-disciplined-in-d eadly- chase-2013-8#ixzz2b6it56Qc

Heh... wrong citation in the wrong direction. He claimed the amounts were 'trace' but none of the links seem to say that in relation to anything but the THC in the passenger's blood. They all either outright state or imply that the driver was high as a kite and possibly drunk as well.


Did we maybe check 75 cops' blood for cocaine and MJ?
No need, they are being "disciplined". Since I have first person experience w/ this sorta thingie, I'll wager 75% of them fail the same standards foisted on the deceased.

"Backfire" o, rly?
Most of you have never seen a backfire in your life. They went out of use in like 1970 when engine controls started their incremental climb.

The lesson I take away is there is a real problem with disconnecting the police from the policed and the solution will self find. And you will not like it.
At the top, the Chief, is where you start to find the real asshats running things. The ones that know they cannot replace all those sociopaths, must keep 'em on "discipline" rather than dismissal.
"Police spokespersons" have got to invent some better up to date lies.
2013-08-05 11:17:05 AM  
1 votes:

NutWrench: Loren: Exactly. The military calls it the fog of war, there is no civilian term even though the same thing happens.

That's because even the dumbest cop should be able to figure out that he's not on a battlefield.


"Should" be able to, but probably doesn't. They talk about it being "a war out there" and a lot of them really think of themselves as semi-military. Post 9/11 hysteria made us give up the 4th Amendment in favor of security, so they expect their authority to be unquestioned and react aggressively when it is not.
2013-08-05 10:51:54 AM  
1 votes:

PunGent: "Found traces of cocaine and alcohol"


There's about a bajillion links so I'll admit that maybe I missed one, but the only link of the seven or eight I opened where the word "trace" was found was in relation to the passenger's marijuana test.

Sooo.... gonna have to do a [citation needed] on ya, buddy.
2013-08-05 10:51:38 AM  
1 votes:

dickfreckle: I'll never understand why it takes 60 police vehicles to chase one car. This isn't the Blues Brothers.


This story comes from an urban environment. I don't picture 60 cars chasing one, Blues Brothers style. I picture cars "involved in the pursuit" as fanning out, staging at intersections, communicating by radio and attempting a coordinated effort to herd the fleeing vehicle in a particular direction and ultimately stopping it.

I don't know Cleveland, but I imagine it's similar to other larger cities with blocks, side-streets and alleys that would necessitate a good number of police units in order to cast a net sufficient to catch the fleeing suspect.

This is all aside of the propriety of the police officers' actions after the stop, which are certainly questionable.
2013-08-05 10:45:12 AM  
1 votes:
"discipline" = Two Weeks Paid Administrative Leave.
2013-08-05 10:41:03 AM  
1 votes:

gfid: PunGent: Nygis: They tried to run them over with the car.

Nope.

http://www.cleveland.com/metro/index.ssf/2013/02/cleveland_police_ch as e_and_shooting_scene.html

And, since the cops here were apparently using unmarked vehicles leading the chase, it's possible the poor bastards didn't even know they were being pursued.

I seriously doubt that.  Unmarked cars generally have hidden lights and I don't believe there were no marked cruisers.

OTOH, from your link it says the shooting lasted 30 seconds, but one of the 13 who fired managed to shoot 49 rounds?   Huh?  I know there are automatic weapons that can easily fire that fast, but seriously?


There were marked cruisers, but the article quotes an officer complaining about UN-marked cars leading the chase...makes it hard to know who's being chased.  We don't know if the un-marked units used their lights, even if they had them...and since the cops have already lied about several other things, you can't really trust them on that point.

Sad when junkies have more credibility than officers, frankly.

Afa the 49 rounds in 30 seconds, I'm not really a handgun guy...I don't know how likely that is.

I suspect the cops are compressing the shooting time frame...easy to do, accidentally, in the heat of "combat", or it might be deliberate, to make themselves look better.   They're pretty much grasping for straws on this one.
2013-08-05 10:37:03 AM  
1 votes:

tblax: Maybe I missed it, but can someone tell me what initiated the chase in the first place? What did this couple do?


According to the cops...who've been found to be untruthful..they ran a stop sign.

According to the forensic mechanic quoted, their car backfired....which sounds like gunfire, if you're a scared little girl...or a Cleveland police officer.

And according to some folks here, traffic violations are a capital crime.
2013-08-05 10:21:27 AM  
1 votes:

PunGent: Nygis: They tried to run them over with the car.

Nope.

http://www.cleveland.com/metro/index.ssf/2013/02/cleveland_police_ch as e_and_shooting_scene.html

And, since the cops here were apparently using unmarked vehicles leading the chase, it's possible the poor bastards didn't even know they were being pursued.


I seriously doubt that.  Unmarked cars generally have hidden lights and I don't believe there were no marked cruisers.

OTOH, from your link it says the shooting lasted 30 seconds, but one of the 13 who fired managed to shoot 49 rounds?   Huh?  I know there are automatic weapons that can easily fire that fast, but seriously?
2013-08-05 10:11:40 AM  
1 votes:

cwolf20: gglibertine: Oh, for christ's sake, people. The victims were moronic scumbags who ran from the police, the cops were moronic scumbags who went all shock 'n awe on a couple of unarmed moronic scumbags.

I think in this case, we should all be able to agree that both sides were bad.

Sadly, we don't know if they ran because the police started shooting. If they did that to me, I'd probably hide in the floorboard and scream


Actually, all we know is they ran a stop sign...we don't know if they "ran" at all at this point.  They might have pulled over into the parking lot immediately.  And, since dozens of cops have falsified evidence, presumption of innocence trumps the rest, for better or worse.  Even legit charges will get tossed, due to police screwups.

So, local taxpayers better bend over for the lawsuit.
2013-08-05 09:57:47 AM  
1 votes:

skozlaw: PunGent: ....it's possible the poor bastards didn't even know they were being pursued.

Yea, that'll happen when you're driving around drunk and high. Not sure I'd describe an idiot doing cocaine and alcohol and blowing red lights as a "poor bastard", though.


And if they had hit and killed say a kid while fleeing, people would be saying why didnt the cops take them out.

/arm chair QB, this is how it works
//awww, poor criminals
2013-08-05 09:55:09 AM  
1 votes:

doglover: 1,700 cops for a city of 400,000. I don't know how that stacks up with other cities.

In Tokyo The number of inhabitants per police officer is 290:1

So less cops per capita than Tokyo.


Actually...
400,000:1700 = 235:1
That's more cops per capita than 290:1.
2013-08-05 09:48:51 AM  
1 votes:

PunGent: ....it's possible the poor bastards didn't even know they were being pursued.


Yea, that'll happen when you're driving around drunk and high. Not sure I'd describe an idiot doing cocaine and alcohol and blowing red lights as a "poor bastard", though.
2013-08-05 09:35:02 AM  
1 votes:

DubtodaIll: If they've got 100 cops available to chase down 2 druggies then the police force in cleveland is far too large.


...or it was a 25 minute chase through 3 cities, so there are actually officers from multiple departments involved.

/Reading is hard...
2013-08-05 09:30:18 AM  
1 votes:

PunGent: Popcorn Johnny: The woman had over 50 contacts with police and dozens of arrests prior to this, excuse me if I don't shed a tear.

Link

From your article:  "In addition, police responded to many calls related to Williams' diagnosed mental health problems, which included schizophrenia, the records show."

Did you miss that, or do you support the execution of the mentally ill?


its popcorn johnny....... He probably hasn't had his coffee yet or he would of thrown in supporting their rape and execution.
2013-08-05 09:29:52 AM  
1 votes:

Popcorn Johnny: The woman had over 50 contacts with police and dozens of arrests prior to this, excuse me if I don't shed a tear.

Link


I wouldn't expect you to shed a tear for someone who apparently has a severe psychological problems, that would be called empathy and you have expressed your lack of it many times before.
2013-08-05 09:22:19 AM  
1 votes:
Dear Austin P.D,

Don't get any ideas from this.

Sincerely,
The residents of Austin, Tx who are sick of yall killing unarmed people.
2013-08-05 09:21:29 AM  
1 votes:

Popcorn Johnny: The woman had over 50 contacts with police and dozens of arrests prior to this, excuse me if I don't shed a tear.

Link


From your article:  "In addition, police responded to many calls related to Williams' diagnosed mental health problems, which included schizophrenia, the records show."

Did you miss that, or do you support the execution of the mentally ill?
2013-08-05 09:07:34 AM  
1 votes:

skozlaw: I fail to see the problem with disciplining those involved.


Get the whole department together, divide them into 10s, and have every tenth man beaten to death by the remaining nine. It's better than they deserve.

Of course, they are just cops. Maybe we can just fire one in 10 and take away the service weapons of the ones left on the force. See how well they do when their brain is their ultimate last resort.
2013-08-05 09:03:22 AM  
1 votes:
As for how you have a full blown firefight... this seems more like poor procedure to me.  With that many policemen, all it takes is one to fire a shot, then all the other 74 know is that a shot was fired, and go into "OMG a gunshot" mode, time to protect ourselves.  Not saying it's right, but I'd say the bulk of the officers weren't thinking execution, but were thinking survival.  I still consider the car a weapon, and don't feel particularly bad for these losers.

My take away on this whole thing would be to call for some serious training/retraining for all 75 officers on how to effectively communicate in a group chase situation.
2013-08-05 08:56:08 AM  
1 votes:

Cold_Sassy: FTFA: The pair were shot at 137 times while in their car, parked in a middle school parking lot. No officers were injured in what police called a full blown-out" firefight.

Please excuse me, but how the fark can you have a "firefight" with unarmed persons?  Please tell us, we're eager to hear your explanation.


This.

"Isn't that just like a wop cokehead? Brings a knife Malibu to a gun fight."
2013-08-05 08:36:25 AM  
1 votes:
Isolated incident.

Again.
2013-08-05 08:31:47 AM  
1 votes:

At least they got the right car this time.


i.imgur.com
Link
"There was no warning. There were no orders. No commands. Just gunshots."
2013-08-05 08:22:13 AM  
1 votes:

NickelP: you are a puppet: NickelP: you are a puppet: vladimpaler: "innocent couple"?

Innocent people are not high on cocaine, driving on an suspended license, and running from the police.

Well, if you are given the death penalty for a crime you didn't commit, the correct response isn't "yeah but he wasn't innocent because he had a suspended license"

If you try to rob a gas station and get shot no one biatches at the clerk. This isn't much different. They caused a dangerous and cchaotic situation, which did not work out well for them.

If this isn't much different from robbery with a deadly weapon then why are the possible legal sentences for armed robbery and the crimes committed by this couple so drastically different? Could it be that this is in fact, "much different" ?

I'm not sure they are. Causing a police chase like that is getting you in the pokey for a few years for sure. If anyone was injured (more so if was a police officer) That sentence gets long fast


Well then it's a good thing two people were murdered before any injuries occurred.
2013-08-05 08:19:16 AM  
1 votes:

NickelP: phrawgh: The average American is exponentially more likely to be injured or killed by 'our' police than by a terrorist.

You are also exponentially more likely to deserve or to have done something to cause that injury/killing with the police vs the one from a terrorist. I don't really see your point here.....


It's almost like you are saying the police are justified in killing everyone they kill.
2013-08-05 08:16:50 AM  
1 votes:
Today, with our highly militarized and uncompromising police forces (including SWAT teams), society seems to let cops decide when and where to be judge, jury and executioner.

/it must be a cost-saving move in order to save money...so that there will be enough left over for dipstick, crooked politicians to squander foolishly
2013-08-05 08:11:52 AM  
1 votes:

Cold_Sassy: FTFA: The pair were shot at 137 times while in their car, parked in a middle school parking lot. No officers were injured in what police called a full blown-out" firefight.

Please excuse me, but how the fark can you have a "firefight" with unarmed persons?  Please tell us, we're eager to hear your explanation.


Simple, they surrounded it and shot at each other.

I bet they get ambushed by coffee cups in the squad room.
2013-08-05 08:06:10 AM  
1 votes:

vladimpaler: Innocent people are not high on cocaine, driving on an suspended license, and running from the police.


They were innocent of the action they were shot to death for.
2013-08-05 08:04:41 AM  
1 votes:
asset0.cbsistatic.com
2013-08-05 08:03:11 AM  
1 votes:

you are a puppet: vladimpaler: "innocent couple"?

Innocent people are not high on cocaine, driving on an suspended license, and running from the police.

Well, if you are given the death penalty for a crime you didn't commit, the correct response isn't "yeah but he wasn't innocent because he had a suspended license"


If you try to rob a gas station and get shot no one biatches at the clerk. This isn't much different. They caused a dangerous and cchaotic situation, which did not work out well for them.
2013-08-05 07:56:48 AM  
1 votes:
Mob mentality?
2013-08-05 07:55:11 AM  
1 votes:
Sucks to be them, but don't get all hopped up on drugs and run from the cops for hours, putting everyone's lives at risk, but nobody is saying anything about that. What if they had hit your wife and children while running from the cops in their car? And killed them? You probably wouldn't mind the cops firing them up then.
2013-08-05 07:54:43 AM  
1 votes:
These people were scum and deserved what they got when they ran from the police and the proceeded to attempt to run the officers over with their car.

I'm tried of these people making my city look bad.
2013-08-05 07:52:02 AM  
1 votes:

MREbomber: Frederick: Screw you Pamela Engel for a horribly written article.

I cant tell if there was four people shot or two people shot.

"The pair were shot at 137 times while in their car..."
"One suspect, 30-year-old Malissa Williams, was shot 24 times, and the other, 43-year-old Timothy Russell, was shot 23 times."

Pretty sure that means the other 90 bullets missed. These are police officers, after all, not gun enthusiasts or properly trained shooters.



Only imperial stormtroopers are so precise.
2013-08-05 07:51:14 AM  
1 votes:

Frederick: Screw you Pamela Engel for a horribly written article.

I cant tell if there was four people shot or two people shot.

"The pair were shot at 137 times while in their car..."
"One suspect, 30-year-old Malissa Williams, was shot 24 times, and the other, 43-year-old Timothy Russell, was shot 23 times."


No, you're a halftard.  Being "shot at" and "shot" are quite different.
2013-08-05 07:48:57 AM  
1 votes:
Yeah but the victims were on drugs so they were bad people. Drugs are against the law.
2013-08-05 07:47:13 AM  
1 votes:

dickfreckle: I'll never understand why it takes 60 police vehicles to chase one car. This isn't the Blues Brothers.


Vehicle budgets don't justify themselves, yanno.
2013-08-05 07:04:28 AM  
1 votes:
I'll never understand why it takes 60 police vehicles to chase one car. This isn't the Blues Brothers.
2013-08-05 06:53:56 AM  
1 votes:
60 cops firing only 137 shots is considered a restrained response these days and 47 hits is unheard of marksmanship. Clearly these policemen were well trained and highly disciplined. This is just the price we pay to protect ur freedums from the turrerists.
 
Displayed 66 of 66 comments

View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest


This thread is closed to new comments.

Continue Farking
Submit a Link »






Report