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(Business Insider)   75 Cleveland police shoot an unarmed, innocent couple a total of 137 times. Police department's response? To "discipline" them   (businessinsider.com) divider line 233
    More: Sick, Cleveland Police, Ohio Attorney General, Mike DeWine, disciplines  
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21981 clicks; posted to Main » on 05 Aug 2013 at 7:42 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-08-05 03:47:24 PM  

styckx: Just because they were found unarmed doesn't mean they never were.. But hey, let's not let simple things like that stop us from raging at cops in the morning.


is it necessary to fill them with bullets once they have ditched the guns?
 
2013-08-05 04:14:05 PM  
Drunk, high on coke and pot, with a suspended drivers license, running from the cops when they try to pull you over.

It doesn't sound like the cops handled this well, but for the dead druggies, it's really hard to find much sympathy.
 
2013-08-05 04:48:30 PM  
This is pretty much the poster for excessive force.
 
2013-08-05 05:05:04 PM  

cirrhosis_and_halitosis: What was running through the thick-skulled and overzealous copper's "brains":  'Dispatch said we gonna bag some big criminals.  We gonna be famous!!!"

[assets.nydailynews.com image 428x500]

Favorite quote from article, "Officers told investigators they saw the suspects in the car with what looked like a gun."   Which is police code for anything visible to the naked eye.


Knows that feel:
i1.ytimg.com
/hot
//no relation
 
2013-08-05 05:38:19 PM  

JuggleGeek: Drunk, high on coke and pot, with a suspended drivers license, running from the cops when they try to pull you over.

It doesn't sound like the cops handled this well, but for the dead druggies, it's really hard to find much sympathy.


As long as the cops are killing unarmed people we don't like, it's all good.  Extra points if they are brown amiright?
 
2013-08-05 05:42:01 PM  
This isn't a hospital police action! It's an insane asylum
 
2013-08-05 05:44:18 PM  

skozlaw: PunGent: They charge 'em with DUI? there ya go.

Yes, they charged a dead man with DUI. WTF is wrong with you?

PunGent: Actually, those reporters may have set themselves up for a serious slander/libel suit, unless the tox screen backs them up. The cops didn't allege weaving, which you'd expect from a DUI suspect.

In other words, not only do you have no citation for your claim of "trace" intoxicants, a claim in direct contradiction to the claim made by the people reporting from closer to the story and with more access to the evidence than you, you actually made up the words you put in quotes?

snocone: Did we maybe check 75 cops' blood for cocaine and MJ?

What would that have to do with anything? Would that make the driver less drunk and/or high if the cops were also on dope?


Has to do with hypocrisy, not that you would understand.
 
2013-08-05 06:10:01 PM  

neongoats: Secondly, only the most loathsome idiot would try and claim that a little coke and weed means you deserve to be shot 30 times. How many rich, white, elites would we need to gun down if that were so?


Hey, it's a start.
 
2013-08-05 06:41:08 PM  

Psycoholic_Slag: JuggleGeek: Drunk, high on coke and pot, with a suspended drivers license, running from the cops when they try to pull you over.

It doesn't sound like the cops handled this well, but for the dead druggies, it's really hard to find much sympathy.

As long as the cops are killing unarmed people we don't like, it's all good.  Extra points if they are brown amiright?


The guy was driving while farked up on alcohol, cocaine, and pot.  His license had already been pulled, which would indicate that he does that kind of thing on a regular basis.  He needs to be taken off the road.  He could have taken the easy way and pulled over, but he chose to drive even faster and stupider than he had already been doing.  That makes him a high risk to anyone else trying to use the road.  "Unarmed" and "driving a car 100 mph while all drugged up" are not the same thing.

As I said before, the cops didn't handle it well, but it's hard to be sympathetic.  It has nothing to do with being brown (but I'm not surprised that you are a racist asshole).  It has to do with driving like a maniac and making the roads unsafe for other people.
 
2013-08-05 06:44:39 PM  

JuggleGeek: Psycoholic_Slag: JuggleGeek: Drunk, high on coke and pot, with a suspended drivers license, running from the cops when they try to pull you over.

It doesn't sound like the cops handled this well, but for the dead druggies, it's really hard to find much sympathy.

As long as the cops are killing unarmed people we don't like, it's all good.  Extra points if they are brown amiright?

The guy was driving while farked up on alcohol, cocaine, and pot.  His license had already been pulled, which would indicate that he does that kind of thing on a regular basis.  He needs to be taken off the road.  He could have taken the easy way and pulled over, but he chose to drive even faster and stupider than he had already been doing.  That makes him a high risk to anyone else trying to use the road.  "Unarmed" and "driving a car 100 mph while all drugged up" are not the same thing.

As I said before, the cops didn't handle it well, but it's hard to be sympathetic.  It has nothing to do with being brown (but I'm not surprised that you are a racist asshole).  It has to do with driving like a maniac and making the roads unsafe for other people.


Unsafe like 58 more police cars in pursuit than necessary? Your choice of words with "didn't handle it well" instead of "handled it poorly" says something.
 
2013-08-05 06:49:29 PM  

browntimmy: Unsafe like 58 more police cars in pursuit than necessary?


And don't forget shooting like madmen.  They didn't handle it well, as I said before.

You can keep pretending that I'm kissing the cops butt, but I'm not, you're just a lying asshole.
 
2013-08-05 06:58:40 PM  
What's the big deal? They chased them, they caught them, they get to shoot them right? That's obviously the rule which explains why five dozen competitors showed up to count coup.
 
2013-08-05 07:12:36 PM  

JuggleGeek: Psycoholic_Slag: JuggleGeek: Drunk, high on coke and pot, with a suspended drivers license, running from the cops when they try to pull you over.

It doesn't sound like the cops handled this well, but for the dead druggies, it's really hard to find much sympathy.

As long as the cops are killing unarmed people we don't like, it's all good.  Extra points if they are brown amiright?

The guy was driving while farked up on alcohol, cocaine, and pot.  His license had already been pulled, which would indicate that he does that kind of thing on a regular basis.  He needs to be taken off the road.  He could have taken the easy way and pulled over, but he chose to drive even faster and stupider than he had already been doing.  That makes him a high risk to anyone else trying to use the road.  "Unarmed" and "driving a car 100 mph while all drugged up" are not the same thing.

As I said before, the cops didn't handle it well, but it's hard to be sympathetic.  It has nothing to do with being brown (but I'm not surprised that you are a racist asshole).  It has to do with driving like a maniac and making the roads unsafe for other people.


So, no sympathy for unarmed drug users who get executed by cops without a trial.
You are a fine piece of work there fellow citizen.  Lets party together, but no driving afterwards.
 
2013-08-05 07:51:18 PM  

JuggleGeek: Drunk, high on coke and pot, with a suspended drivers license, running from the cops when they try to pull you over.

It doesn't sound like the cops handled this well, but for the dead druggies, it's really hard to find much sympathy.


I can find tons of sympathy. There's no death penalty, as far as I know, for being high or having a suspended license, but they were both executed all the same. They were executed because cops figured, "hey, I heard one of them shot at us, so it's open friggin' season on them now", which is why we have the (forgive the term) pig-piling as over a hundred cops were involved in chasing and executing them.

We have lost control. Where's the DoJ on this one? Seattle PD has to be supervised like children because they couldn't resist shooting & beating people - how many other PDs are going to have to be chaperoned because they're full of trigger-happy morons covered by bureaucracies designed to protect them at all costs?
 
2013-08-05 08:05:57 PM  

snocone: Has to do with hypocrisy, not that you would understand.


Or maybe that, whether true or not, has absolutely nothing to do with whether or not the person in the car was driving high and drunk which is what was being discussed when you chose to respond to me.

If you think the cops should be tested that's fine, but it has fark all to do with the discussion you chose to jump into.
 
2013-08-05 08:57:57 PM  

skozlaw: snocone: Has to do with hypocrisy, not that you would understand.

Or maybe that, whether true or not, has absolutely nothing to do with whether or not the person in the car was driving high and drunk which is what was being discussed when you chose to respond to me.

If you think the cops should be tested that's fine, but it has fark all to do with the discussion you chose to jump into.


In many safety sensitive occupations, besides random drug testing, you will get tested for any injury requiring medical attention.  Do you think it would be in our best interest if we asked our police officers to submit to a drug test if they kill someone?
 
2013-08-05 10:59:32 PM  

Psycoholic_Slag: So, no sympathy for unarmed drug users who get executed by cops without a trial.


If they had stopped when the cops flipped on the lights, they would have had a trial.  They were stupid enough to think that they could outrun the cops, and it got them killed.

Pretending, as the fark headline says, that they were an "unarmed innocent couple" is nonsense.  They could have easily hurt someone.  They chose the dickhead way, so they got treated like dickheads.

What do you propose?  Anyone that doesn't want to get arrested can just flip off the cops and drive like a bat out of hell and the cops should just let you go?
 
2013-08-05 11:24:26 PM  

JuggleGeek: What do you propose? Anyone that doesn't want to get arrested can just flip off the cops and drive like a bat out of hell and the cops should just let you go?


Isn't that why we have license plates on our cars and are forced to register them with the state? If it isn't to identify people who commit crimes and then drive away, what are license plates and registration for? Additionally, is the crime of running from the police now a death penalty offense that obviates the need for a trial?
 
2013-08-05 11:32:15 PM  
Got it.  Do what you want, don't stop for the cops, drive like a maniac, fark the world.  Beautiful plan you have there.
 
2013-08-05 11:39:10 PM  

JuggleGeek: Got it.  Do what you want, don't stop for the cops, drive like a maniac, fark the world.  Beautiful plan you have there.


Got it. Let's get 75 cops to fire 137 bullets at every person who commits a minor traffic infraction. Beautiful plan you have there. That would be a much better world than a world in which one person gets away with running a stop sign. I mean, better a hundred innocent men are executed than one guilty man goes free, isn't that how the saying goes?
 
2013-08-05 11:41:00 PM  

JuggleGeek: What do you propose? Anyone that doesn't want to get arrested can just flip off the cops and drive like a bat out of hell and the cops should just let you go?


False dilemma. Believe it or not, there IS a middle ground between "shoot them to death" and "let them go".
 
2013-08-06 01:00:32 AM  

untaken_name: Got it. Let's get 75 cops to fire 137 bullets at every person who commits a minor traffic infraction.


Have I spoken in favor of the shooting?

All I've done is pointed out that the reason these people ended up in this situation is because of their own actions, and it's hard to by sympathetic.  He was driving without a license (probably already lost it due to too many DWI's), he was drunk, on various drugs, and when the cops tried to pull him over, he decided to be an asshole.  The cops should not have handled it the way they did.  That does not make this asshole a sympathetic victim.
 
2013-08-06 01:06:21 AM  

JuggleGeek: untaken_name: Got it. Let's get 75 cops to fire 137 bullets at every person who commits a minor traffic infraction.

Have I spoken in favor of the shooting?

All I've done is pointed out that the reason these people ended up in this situation is because of their own actions, and it's hard to by sympathetic.  He was driving without a license (probably already lost it due to too many DWI's), he was drunk, on various drugs, and when the cops tried to pull him over, he decided to be an asshole.  The cops should not have handled it the way they did.  That does not make this asshole a sympathetic victim.


Well, rather than correct the obvious mistakes you made in describing the situation and attempt to get you to cogitate on whether 60-car chase posses and deadly force are the safest and best responses to traffic infractions, I'll just say have a blissful life, sir. I'm certain that you will.
 
2013-08-06 01:10:42 AM  

untaken_name: Well, rather than correct the obvious mistakes you made in describing the situation and attempt to get you to cogitate on whether 60-car chase posses and deadly force are the safest and best responses to traffic infractions, I'll just say have a blissful life, sir. I'm certain that you will.


I've said multiple times that the cops didn't handle it well.  You, however, are pretending that I've claimed that this was the "sfest and best response".

You're making up BS and then using that BS as an argument against me.  That's called a strawman.  You're doing it on purpose, that makes you a liar.
 
2013-08-06 01:13:27 AM  
I'm often amazed at people on the internet.  You're quoting me when I say "The cops should not have handled it the way they did.", and then talking about "whether 60-car chase posses and deadly force are the safest and best responses to traffic infractions".  I never claimed they are, and you know that.  You actually quoted me, yet you are still making the accusation.
 
2013-08-06 01:23:36 AM  
Based on the fact that he had a suspended license and ran from the police, I pretty much assumed that he was a slimeball.

So since you were being such a jerk, I went looking.

http://www.cleveland.com/metro/index.ssf/2012/12/fleeing_driver_shot _b y_police.html

Russell, who would have turned 44 next Sunday, had a history of theft offenses, violent crime and, on two previous occasions, fleeing police - all since 1997.

He was found guilty of domestic violence in Summit County, had three convictions for receiving stolen property, one in Summit County and two in Cuyahoga. Russell also had four robbery convictions: Ohio law recognizes robbery as any theft offense involving force or threat of force.

One of the stolen-property offenses also carried a felony failure-to-comply charge, in Cuyahoga County in 2008. He also was found guilty of misdemeanor failure to comply in Mentor Municipal Court earlier this year.


Yeah, he sounds like a real sweetheart.
 
2013-08-06 02:34:22 AM  

JuggleGeek: You're making up BS and then using that BS as an argument against me. That's called a strawman. You're doing it on purpose, that makes you a liar.


Sure, buddy. Keep repeating your BS. See if that magically makes it true.

JuggleGeek: All I've done is pointed out that the reason these people ended up in this situation is because of their own actions,


Right, because everyone in the country who blows through a stop sign or drives drunk ends up shot 42 times. So, all you've done is proclaim something which is false over and over. That doesn't make it true.
Stupid people try to get away from police officers often. They usually don't end up shot 42 times. Therefore, even if these people had a reasonable belief that they would be chased, they had no reasonable expectation of being shot for running a stop sign. That wasn't (prior to this case) a typical outcome of driving away from police. So your contention that they are responsible for their own deaths is ridiculous. That's only one thing wrong with your logic. Since you're obviously more interested in pretending that you're correct instead of actually correcting your mistakes, I'll just say good day.
 
2013-08-06 02:35:11 AM  

JuggleGeek: Yeah, he sounds like a real sweetheart.


Guess everyone who's not very nice should be summarily executed. I assume you're standing in line.
 
2013-08-06 06:10:19 AM  
izquotes.com
 
2013-08-06 08:24:57 AM  

skozlaw: PunGent: They charge 'em with DUI? there ya go.

Yes, they charged a dead man with DUI. WTF is wrong with you?


The cops didn't even allege it, after they threw everything but the kitchen sink into the mix.   Logic ftw.

PunGent: Actually, those reporters may have set themselves up for a serious slander/libel suit, unless the tox screen backs them up. The cops didn't allege weaving, which you'd expect from a DUI suspect.

In other words, not only do you have no citation for your claim of "trace" intoxicants, a claim in direct contradiction to the claim made by the people reporting from closer to the story and with more access to the evidence than you, you actually made up the words you put in quotes?


Show ME a link with MORE than "trace"...you're quoting from people who HAVE BEEN CAUGHT LYING ALREADY.

snocone: Did we maybe check 75 cops' blood for cocaine and MJ?

What would that have to do with anything? Would that make the driver less drunk and/or high if the cops were also on dope?


Seriously?  you don't see how impaired witnesses could have...impaired testimony?

Occam's razor...try not to cut yourself with it.
 
2013-08-06 08:28:34 AM  

JuggleGeek: Psycoholic_Slag: So, no sympathy for unarmed drug users who get executed by cops without a trial.

If they had stopped when the cops flipped on the lights, they would have had a trial.  They were stupid enough to think that they could outrun the cops, and it got them killed.


Unless there's been further developments, we don't know they even saw any police lights.  Cop heard a backfire, mistook it for gunfire, unmarked units went after them first, and the cops lied about multiple elements of the "chase".

Hell, at this point, I'm going to need video to believe they even ran the stop sign.
 
2013-08-06 08:31:53 AM  

supayoda: Frederick: Screw you Pamela Engel for a horribly written article.

I cant tell if there was four people shot or two people shot.

"The pair were shot at 137 times while in their car..."
"One suspect, 30-year-old Malissa Williams, was shot 24 times, and the other, 43-year-old Timothy Russell, was shot 23 times."

They were shot at 137 times but only struck the couple 47 times, meaning that 90 of their shots either missed or were fired in warning. I'm confused as to whether the cops should be berated for shooting an unarmed couple or for being such horrible marksmen.


About 30% hits with (presumably) handguns in (presumably) poor lighting in a confused situation isn't actually all that bad...it's not like a clean, orderly, well-lit shooting range.
 
2013-08-06 03:27:01 PM  

PunGent: Afa the 49 rounds in 30 seconds, I'm not really a handgun guy...I don't know how likely that is.


He went through nearly three magazines if it was a Glock (17+1, if I remember correctly).  It's possible.  You aren't aiming when you fire that fast.  You're pointing in the general direction and pulling the trigger as fast as you can.  I've attempted this type of shooting at the range.  After about the third or fourth round you're lucky to hit the paper target outside the circle, let alone get it inside any part of the target region.
 
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