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(Business Insider)   75 Cleveland police shoot an unarmed, innocent couple a total of 137 times. Police department's response? To "discipline" them   (businessinsider.com) divider line 233
    More: Sick, Cleveland Police, Ohio Attorney General, Mike DeWine, disciplines  
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21970 clicks; posted to Main » on 05 Aug 2013 at 7:42 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-08-05 09:22:19 AM
Dear Austin P.D,

Don't get any ideas from this.

Sincerely,
The residents of Austin, Tx who are sick of yall killing unarmed people.
 
2013-08-05 09:23:44 AM

doglover: Get the whole department together, divide them into 10s, and have every tenth man beaten to death by the remaining nine. It's better than they deserve.

Of course, they are just cops. Maybe we can just fire one in 10 and take away the service weapons of the ones left on the force. See how well they do when their brain is their ultimate last resort.


Try not to spit too much kid, you might ruin your awesome Che t-shirt.
 
2013-08-05 09:24:13 AM

Petit_Merdeux: These people were violent, outlaw thugs that represented a danger to women and children ...



But men were safe, so why should I care?
 
2013-08-05 09:25:41 AM

Mosox42: These people were scum and deserved what they got when they ran from the police and the proceeded to attempt to run the officers over with their car.

I'm tried of these people making my city look bad.


Did they really, or was that just a chickenshiat post-facto charge tossed in to try to salvage a shiatty situation?

Because I had a cousin charged with that once...all he did, literally, was pull into a city parking space in broad daylight.  Dumbass cop stepped off the curb BACKWARDS as he was pulling in, and proceeded to freak out and charge him.

Easy dismissal, and shooting someone in that situation would be manslaughter on the cop's part, imho.
 
2013-08-05 09:25:57 AM
47 hits out of 137 shots = 34.4% accuracy rate.

So where did the other 90 bullets end up?
=Smidge=
 
2013-08-05 09:29:52 AM

Popcorn Johnny: The woman had over 50 contacts with police and dozens of arrests prior to this, excuse me if I don't shed a tear.

Link


I wouldn't expect you to shed a tear for someone who apparently has a severe psychological problems, that would be called empathy and you have expressed your lack of it many times before.
 
2013-08-05 09:30:18 AM

PunGent: Popcorn Johnny: The woman had over 50 contacts with police and dozens of arrests prior to this, excuse me if I don't shed a tear.

Link

From your article:  "In addition, police responded to many calls related to Williams' diagnosed mental health problems, which included schizophrenia, the records show."

Did you miss that, or do you support the execution of the mentally ill?


its popcorn johnny....... He probably hasn't had his coffee yet or he would of thrown in supporting their rape and execution.
 
2013-08-05 09:31:07 AM

mafiageek1980: The residents of Austin, Tx who are sick of yall killing unarmed people.


Shenanigans.

No unarmed people in Texas.
 
Skr
2013-08-05 09:32:56 AM
Firefight? One party shooting at non shooters is more of a firing squad.
 
2013-08-05 09:34:49 AM

vladimpaler: "innocent couple"?

Innocent people are not high on cocaine, driving on an suspended license, and running from the police.


This.

NutWrench: Nineteen of the 75 officers facing discipline for offenses ranging from engaging in a chase without permission to providing false information on police reports will have disciplinary hearings and might be suspended temporarily, according to The Plain Dealer.

Fark you!

Ever wonder where these "cop hate" thread come from? Well, here you go.


Also, this.  It should result in firings and criminal prosecution.  They're abusing authority and committing crimes.  Just because you're a cop doesn't mean you get to file false police reports without consequence.  Regular folk get charged, they should too.
 
2013-08-05 09:35:02 AM

DubtodaIll: If they've got 100 cops available to chase down 2 druggies then the police force in cleveland is far too large.


...or it was a 25 minute chase through 3 cities, so there are actually officers from multiple departments involved.

/Reading is hard...
 
2013-08-05 09:35:39 AM
Oh, for christ's sake, people. The victims were moronic scumbags who ran from the police, the cops were moronic scumbags who went all shock 'n awe on a couple of unarmed moronic scumbags.

I think in this case, we should all be able to agree that both sides were bad.
 
2013-08-05 09:39:59 AM

suburbanguy: DubtodaIll: If they've got 100 cops available to chase down 2 druggies then the police force in cleveland is far too large.

...or it was a 25 minute chase through 3 cities, so there are actually officers from multiple departments involved.

/Reading is hard...



Well, besides which there would be county and state even if the whole thing had remained within the Cleveland city limits.  But it'd be more interesting to hear people explain how large they think a PD should be, wouldn't it?
 
2013-08-05 09:40:50 AM

Nygis: They tried to run them over with the car.


Nope.

http://www.cleveland.com/metro/index.ssf/2013/02/cleveland_police_ch as e_and_shooting_scene.html

And, since the cops here were apparently using unmarked vehicles leading the chase, it's possible the poor bastards didn't even know they were being pursued.
 
2013-08-05 09:43:14 AM

suburbanguy: ...or it was a 25 minute chase through 3 cities, so there are actually officers from multiple departments involved.


It still seems pretty unreasonable to involve 60 vehicles in the pursuit of one car in such a way that they all wind up at the end of the chase.

I mean, I get extra vehicles being involved in roadblocks, cars to clear the roadway in front of the suspect, etc., but to have 60 actual pursuit vehicles show up and unload 75 cops at the conclusion of a chase involving two perps?

That just seems like a really good way to make something very, very bad happen....

/ high speed chases for anything but known violent suspects are stupid and cops involved in them should be suspended without pay on the first offense and fired for multiple violations
 
2013-08-05 09:47:13 AM
I hope Payday 2 has similar scenarios
 
2013-08-05 09:47:19 AM

skozlaw: doglover: Get the whole department together, divide them into 10s, and have every tenth man beaten to death by the remaining nine. It's better than they deserve.

Of course, they are just cops. Maybe we can just fire one in 10 and take away the service weapons of the ones left on the force. See how well they do when their brain is their ultimate last resort.

Try not to spit too much kid, you might ruin your awesome Che t-shirt.


i25.photobucket.com
 
2013-08-05 09:47:35 AM
If there's only money in the budget for morons, this is what you get.
Now, it's going to cost money to paper this over.  It's still cheaper to cover it up than it is to pay the pension for a well trained and intelligent police force.

Held hostage by bean counters and tea baggers.
Small government and blah blah blah
 
2013-08-05 09:47:43 AM

gglibertine: Oh, for christ's sake, people. The victims were moronic scumbags who ran from the police, the cops were moronic scumbags who went all shock 'n awe on a couple of unarmed moronic scumbags.

I think in this case, we should all be able to agree that both sides were bad.


If that's the case, I'm unsure on who I should vote for.
 
2013-08-05 09:48:21 AM

neongoats: Well, for one thing, police chases are farking stupid. The police doing the chasing are just escalating a situation rather than defusing it. But every johnny idiot podunk moron with a badge watches too much 70s police drama and has to get in their own high speed chase.

Secondly, only the most loathsome idiot would try and claim that a little coke and weed means you deserve to be shot 30 times. How many rich, white, elites would we need to gun down if that were so?

Cops are the enemies of the American people. They have militarized themselves and consider people as prey, and are just looking for an excuse to vent their misanthropy. They'll shoot your little dog for no reason. They'll toss your grandmas house on a false tip.


That and apparently in CA it has to involve a well known celebrity or a minority.  Wil Wheaton was confused last week about an O.J. Simpson level high speed chase that had zero news coverage until after the whole thing was over.  Then a news helicopter appeared to give the verbal highlights since they didn't video any of it.
 
2013-08-05 09:48:51 AM

PunGent: ....it's possible the poor bastards didn't even know they were being pursued.


Yea, that'll happen when you're driving around drunk and high. Not sure I'd describe an idiot doing cocaine and alcohol and blowing red lights as a "poor bastard", though.
 
2013-08-05 09:49:55 AM

suburbanguy: DubtodaIll: If they've got 100 cops available to chase down 2 druggies then the police force in cleveland is far too large.

...or it was a 25 minute chase through 3 cities, so there are actually officers from multiple departments involved.

/Reading is hard...


Yep, there's no guarantee 74 cops could stop one car, better to have 75. Now, 76 might have been overkill.
 
2013-08-05 09:50:06 AM

gglibertine: Oh, for christ's sake, people. The victims were moronic scumbags who ran from the police, the cops were moronic scumbags who went all shock 'n awe on a couple of unarmed moronic scumbags.

I think in this case, we should all be able to agree that both sides were bad.


Sadly, we don't know if they ran because the police started shooting. If they did that to me, I'd probably hide in the floorboard and scream
 
2013-08-05 09:52:40 AM

doglover: Get the whole department together, divide them into 10s, and have every tenth man beaten to death by the remaining nine. It's better than they deserve.


But, that would decimate them!
 
2013-08-05 09:54:30 AM

Lady J: neongoats:
Secondly, only the most loathsome idiot would try and claim that a little coke and weed means you deserve to be shot 30 times. How many rich, white, elites would we need to gun down if that were so?


hmm. many farkers would be living on some seriously borrowed time. ifyagetme


no kidding(looks at watch)
 
2013-08-05 09:55:04 AM
NickelP:
http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/2911 - armed robbery - 1st degree felony 3-10 years $20,000 fine
http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/2921.331 - evading police and high speed flight - 4th degree felony 6-18 months $5,000 fine

alright iI stand corrected.


IANAL, and I don't know the laws in Texas, but in Cali, you wouldn't just get charged with evading police and high speed flight. You'd get dinged for every red light and stop sign you blew (failure to stop), every pedestrian on the street they can see whom you've endangered (reckless endangerment), every mile per hour you go over the speed limit every time you do it. . . And that's how the sentence adds up quick. By the time you're done there's 42 counts at 18 months a piece.

/only comment on this story is: When the only tool you have is a gun, every problem looks like a chance to get shot.
 
2013-08-05 09:55:09 AM

doglover: 1,700 cops for a city of 400,000. I don't know how that stacks up with other cities.

In Tokyo The number of inhabitants per police officer is 290:1

So less cops per capita than Tokyo.


Actually...
400,000:1700 = 235:1
That's more cops per capita than 290:1.
 
2013-08-05 09:55:39 AM
Face it.  Cops are just better than you.

www.davidbarrkirtley.com
 
2013-08-05 09:55:44 AM

skozlaw: PunGent: ....it's possible the poor bastards didn't even know they were being pursued.

Yea, that'll happen when you're driving around drunk and high. Not sure I'd describe an idiot doing cocaine and alcohol and blowing red lights as a "poor bastard", though.


Did you read any of the links?  "Found traces of cocaine and alcohol" doesn't equal DUI.

If they were, I'm sure the cops would've said so...they flat-out made up enough crap.
 
d23 [TotalFark]
2013-08-05 09:56:22 AM
img13.imageshack.us

He's comin' right for us!

fark this
 
2013-08-05 09:57:47 AM

skozlaw: PunGent: ....it's possible the poor bastards didn't even know they were being pursued.

Yea, that'll happen when you're driving around drunk and high. Not sure I'd describe an idiot doing cocaine and alcohol and blowing red lights as a "poor bastard", though.


And if they had hit and killed say a kid while fleeing, people would be saying why didnt the cops take them out.

/arm chair QB, this is how it works
//awww, poor criminals
 
2013-08-05 09:58:06 AM

Bit'O'Gristle: Sucks to be them, but don't get all hopped up on drugs and run from the cops for hours, putting everyone's lives at risk, but nobody is saying anything about that. What if they had hit your wife and children while running from the cops in their car? And killed them? You probably wouldn't mind the cops firing them up then.


Yeah, you run from the cops and occasionally something bad happens.

NickelP: This.... communication in an ongoing dangerous situation is never going to be perfect. doesnt matter if they had a gun, when they took off they opened their selves up to the possibility of something like this happening


Exactly.  The military calls it the fog of war, there is no civilian term even though the same thing happens.

PunGent: Mosox42: These people were scum and deserved what they got when they ran from the police and the proceeded to attempt to run the officers over with their car.

I'm tried of these people making my city look bad.

Did they really, or was that just a chickenshiat post-facto charge tossed in to try to salvage a shiatty situation?


It's probably legit.  What tends to happen is these guys who are running from the cops get cornered and try to use their car to make the blockade go away.  They are intending the guys to jump out of the way like most people would but cops will likely respond will bullets.
 
2013-08-05 09:58:13 AM

skozlaw: suburbanguy: ...or it was a 25 minute chase through 3 cities, so there are actually officers from multiple departments involved.

It still seems pretty unreasonable to involve 60 vehicles in the pursuit of one car in such a way that they all wind up at the end of the chase.

I mean, I get extra vehicles being involved in roadblocks, cars to clear the roadway in front of the suspect, etc., but to have 60 actual pursuit vehicles show up and unload 75 cops at the conclusion of a chase involving two perps?

That just seems like a really good way to make something very, very bad happen....

/ high speed chases for anything but known violent suspects are stupid and cops involved in them should be suspended without pay on the first offense and fired for multiple violations


If they'd played Yakety Sax, it would've been fine...
 
2013-08-05 10:00:44 AM

skozlaw: / high speed chases for anything but known violent suspects are stupid and cops involved in them should be suspended without pay on the first offense and fired for multiple violations


I don't get this. If someone speeds off from the cops at a traffic stop, the cops immediately give chase because "they are probably guilty of something else". And the police consider that probable cause to risk the lives of innocent bystanders. If they speed off and get away, so what? All you had on them was a speeding ticket. Look at your dashcam, get the license plate and have an officer go say hello for speeding and resisting arrest / fleeing police.

In this case, they were at a middle school during the time of year that teachers and staff start returning to prep classrooms. And kids tend to play on school playground equipment year-round. And many schools don't have huge plots of land or have their parking lots on the edges of the huge plot they do have. How do we know they weren't firing towards a busy road or toward houses?

How much danger was this shooting causing to the citizen bystanders?

It should be that the police let them go and catch them later. There have been quite a few incidents where if a subject had been let go an innocent bystander wouldn't have been hit by the suspect (or the officer). I can never reconcile this risk to public harm versus the action that police take based on a minor traffic violation.

If they were observed driving recklessly/DUI? They are chasing an armed robbery victim? The police officer saw/heard shots fired? Chase them down. Going 78 in a 70 isn't enough reason to chase them down and risk the public's life.
 
2013-08-05 10:04:39 AM

gglibertine: Oh, for christ's sake, people. The victims were moronic scumbags who ran from the police, the cops were moronic scumbags who went all shock 'n awe on a couple of unarmed moronic scumbags.

I think in this case, we should all be able to agree that both sides were bad.


Is behaving badly the new standard for a police led firing squad? Must have missed this in my Conn Law and Crim Procedures classes.
 
2013-08-05 10:05:15 AM

Loren: Bit'O'Gristle: Sucks to be them, but don't get all hopped up on drugs and run from the cops for hours, putting everyone's lives at risk, but nobody is saying anything about that. What if they had hit your wife and children while running from the cops in their car? And killed them? You probably wouldn't mind the cops firing them up then.

Yeah, you run from the cops and occasionally something bad happens.

NickelP: This.... communication in an ongoing dangerous situation is never going to be perfect. doesnt matter if they had a gun, when they took off they opened their selves up to the possibility of something like this happening

Exactly.  The military calls it the fog of war, there is no civilian term even though the same thing happens.

PunGent: Mosox42: These people were scum and deserved what they got when they ran from the police and the proceeded to attempt to run the officers over with their car.

I'm tried of these people making my city look bad.

Did they really, or was that just a chickenshiat post-facto charge tossed in to try to salvage a shiatty situation?

It's probably legit.  What tends to happen is these guys who are running from the cops get cornered and try to use their car to make the blockade go away.  They are intending the guys to jump out of the way like most people would but cops will likely respond will bullets.


The cops here made up EVERY OTHER PIECE OF INFORMATION, and that's your assumption?

You seem to suffer from the Just World delusion.
 
2013-08-05 10:07:01 AM

Joe Blowme: skozlaw: PunGent: ....it's possible the poor bastards didn't even know they were being pursued.

Yea, that'll happen when you're driving around drunk and high. Not sure I'd describe an idiot doing cocaine and alcohol and blowing red lights as a "poor bastard", though.

And if they had hit and killed say a kid while fleeing, people would be saying why didnt the cops take them out.

/arm chair QB, this is how it works
//awww, poor criminals


If they were Al Quaeda, and had a suitcase nuke in the trunk, I would've been fine with shooting them.

/useless hypotheticals are useless
 
2013-08-05 10:09:50 AM

phrawgh: The average American is exponentially more likely to be injured or killed by 'our' police than by a terrorist.


That word needs to be stricken from the English language.  It is almost never used correctly.

If one person is killed by a terrorist, 11.0001is an exponential increase.
 
2013-08-05 10:10:56 AM

styckx: Just because they were found unarmed doesn't mean they never were.. But hey, let's not let simple things like that stop us from raging at cops in the morning.


I'm sure they were armed at some point in their lives. Can't be too careful.
 
2013-08-05 10:11:40 AM

cwolf20: gglibertine: Oh, for christ's sake, people. The victims were moronic scumbags who ran from the police, the cops were moronic scumbags who went all shock 'n awe on a couple of unarmed moronic scumbags.

I think in this case, we should all be able to agree that both sides were bad.

Sadly, we don't know if they ran because the police started shooting. If they did that to me, I'd probably hide in the floorboard and scream


Actually, all we know is they ran a stop sign...we don't know if they "ran" at all at this point.  They might have pulled over into the parking lot immediately.  And, since dozens of cops have falsified evidence, presumption of innocence trumps the rest, for better or worse.  Even legit charges will get tossed, due to police screwups.

So, local taxpayers better bend over for the lawsuit.
 
2013-08-05 10:13:05 AM
It's ok. They were just a couple of groids.
 
2013-08-05 10:14:07 AM
Maybe I missed it, but can someone tell me what initiated the chase in the first place? What did this couple do?
 
2013-08-05 10:14:13 AM

ReverendJasen: doglover: 1,700 cops for a city of 400,000. I don't know how that stacks up with other cities.

In Tokyo The number of inhabitants per police officer is 290:1

So less cops per capita than Tokyo.

Actually...
400,000:1700 = 235:1
That's more cops per capita than 290:1.


Oh yeah, 235 is citizens, not cops. Duh. Brain fart.
 
2013-08-05 10:18:25 AM

tblax: Maybe I missed it, but can someone tell me what initiated the chase in the first place? What did this couple do?


As I understand it - they ran a stop sign.

The pursuing officers probably ran the plates.
 
2013-08-05 10:19:30 AM

Bit'O'Gristle: Sucks to be them, but don't get all hopped up on drugs and run from the cops for hours, putting everyone's lives at risk, but nobody is saying anything about that. What if they had hit your wife and children while running from the cops in their car? And killed them? You probably wouldn't mind the cops firing them up then.


Yeah, that's a great way to look at it.  That never happened but if it did happen we sure would feel this way about that!  Wait....wtf was your point?
 
2013-08-05 10:21:27 AM

PunGent: Nygis: They tried to run them over with the car.

Nope.

http://www.cleveland.com/metro/index.ssf/2013/02/cleveland_police_ch as e_and_shooting_scene.html

And, since the cops here were apparently using unmarked vehicles leading the chase, it's possible the poor bastards didn't even know they were being pursued.


I seriously doubt that.  Unmarked cars generally have hidden lights and I don't believe there were no marked cruisers.

OTOH, from your link it says the shooting lasted 30 seconds, but one of the 13 who fired managed to shoot 49 rounds?   Huh?  I know there are automatic weapons that can easily fire that fast, but seriously?
 
2013-08-05 10:25:41 AM

gfid: PunGent: Nygis: They tried to run them over with the car.

Nope.

http://www.cleveland.com/metro/index.ssf/2013/02/cleveland_police_ch as e_and_shooting_scene.html

And, since the cops here were apparently using unmarked vehicles leading the chase, it's possible the poor bastards didn't even know they were being pursued.

I seriously doubt that.  Unmarked cars generally have hidden lights and I don't believe there were no marked cruisers.

OTOH, from your link it says the shooting lasted 30 seconds, but one of the 13 who fired managed to shoot 49 rounds?   Huh?  I know there are automatic weapons that can easily fire that fast, but seriously?


Do you want to end up being shot at? Then don't question the record.
 
2013-08-05 10:26:07 AM
Nothing to see here, citizen. Move along.
 
2013-08-05 10:34:04 AM
fark the police. The only good one's a dead one.
 
2013-08-05 10:35:35 AM
FTP
 
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