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(Business Insider)   75 Cleveland police shoot an unarmed, innocent couple a total of 137 times. Police department's response? To "discipline" them   (businessinsider.com) divider line 233
    More: Sick, Cleveland Police, Ohio Attorney General, Mike DeWine, disciplines  
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21983 clicks; posted to Main » on 05 Aug 2013 at 7:42 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



233 Comments   (+0 »)
   
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
2013-08-05 03:45:22 AM  
Screw you Pamela Engel for a horribly written article.

I cant tell if there was four people shot or two people shot.

"The pair were shot at 137 times while in their car..."
"One suspect, 30-year-old Malissa Williams, was shot 24 times, and the other, 43-year-old Timothy Russell, was shot 23 times."
 
2013-08-05 03:53:46 AM  
So paid administrate suspension?
 
2013-08-05 03:54:24 AM  
Bah, I can't spell.  Administrative.

Alcohol is involved.
 
2013-08-05 03:55:35 AM  
"with liberty and justice for all".
 
2013-08-05 04:08:50 AM  
America is a farking nightmare.  It deserves the worse the world can offer.
 
2013-08-05 06:53:56 AM  
60 cops firing only 137 shots is considered a restrained response these days and 47 hits is unheard of marksmanship. Clearly these policemen were well trained and highly disciplined. This is just the price we pay to protect ur freedums from the turrerists.
 
2013-08-05 06:54:25 AM  

Frederick: Screw you Pamela Engel for a horribly written article.

I cant tell if there was four people shot or two people shot.

"The pair were shot at 137 times while in their car..."
"One suspect, 30-year-old Malissa Williams, was shot 24 times, and the other, 43-year-old Timothy Russell, was shot 23 times."


Pretty sure that means the other 90 bullets missed. These are police officers, after all, not gun enthusiasts or properly trained shooters.
 
2013-08-05 07:04:28 AM  
I'll never understand why it takes 60 police vehicles to chase one car. This isn't the Blues Brothers.
 
2013-08-05 07:46:33 AM  

dickfreckle: I'll never understand why it takes 60 police vehicles to chase one car. This isn't the Blues Brothers.


"Use of force in apprehending the couple in the Malibu...has been approved."
 
2013-08-05 07:47:13 AM  

dickfreckle: I'll never understand why it takes 60 police vehicles to chase one car. This isn't the Blues Brothers.


Vehicle budgets don't justify themselves, yanno.
 
2013-08-05 07:47:29 AM  
Nineteen of the 75 officers facing discipline for offenses ranging from engaging in a chase without permission to providing false information on police reports will have disciplinary hearings and might be suspended temporarily, according to The Plain Dealer.

Fark you!

Ever wonder where these "cop hate" thread come from? Well, here you go.
 
2013-08-05 07:48:16 AM  

dickfreckle: I'll never understand why it takes 60 police vehicles to chase one car. This isn't the Blues Brothers.


They're a gang, and gang members stick together when one their own is threatened with a backfiring exhaust.
 
2013-08-05 07:48:33 AM  
This is what I don't get about those stupid shootout scenes.  When they shoot up a house/car/etc. you always see them shooting at areas where no freaking would be.  I mean what's the freaking point?

They should be like Zimmerman, one bullet one kill.
 
2013-08-05 07:48:57 AM  
Yeah but the victims were on drugs so they were bad people. Drugs are against the law.
 
2013-08-05 07:50:13 AM  
Police state.
 
2013-08-05 07:50:46 AM  

FullMetalPanda: This is what I don't get about those stupid shootout scenes.  When they shoot up a house/car/etc. you always see them shooting at areas where no freaking would be.  I mean what's the freaking point?

They should be like Zimmerman, one bullet one kill.


There was an officer like that once, Officer Riggs. His motto: one shot, one kill. But then he got too old for this shiat. Time just has a way of getting away from us.
 
2013-08-05 07:51:14 AM  

Frederick: Screw you Pamela Engel for a horribly written article.

I cant tell if there was four people shot or two people shot.

"The pair were shot at 137 times while in their car..."
"One suspect, 30-year-old Malissa Williams, was shot 24 times, and the other, 43-year-old Timothy Russell, was shot 23 times."


No, you're a halftard.  Being "shot at" and "shot" are quite different.
 
2013-08-05 07:51:48 AM  
Video footage of incident:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N3SHNjsajzs
 
2013-08-05 07:52:02 AM  

MREbomber: Frederick: Screw you Pamela Engel for a horribly written article.

I cant tell if there was four people shot or two people shot.

"The pair were shot at 137 times while in their car..."
"One suspect, 30-year-old Malissa Williams, was shot 24 times, and the other, 43-year-old Timothy Russell, was shot 23 times."

Pretty sure that means the other 90 bullets missed. These are police officers, after all, not gun enthusiasts or properly trained shooters.



Only imperial stormtroopers are so precise.
 
2013-08-05 07:52:37 AM  
They tried to run them over with the car.
 
2013-08-05 07:52:39 AM  
Just because they were found unarmed doesn't mean they never were.. But hey, let's not let simple things like that stop us from raging at cops in the morning.
 
2013-08-05 07:53:05 AM  
FTA:  "The officers being disciplined for violating police protocol won't lose their jobs and did not partake in the gunfight at the end of the chase, but they did have a role in the pursuit."

Situation is still farked up and quite possibly the actual shooters will get off lightly as well, but that doesn't make subby's headline any less misleading.
 
2013-08-05 07:53:19 AM  
I'm convinced that the some mods submit and green their own stuff.  This one shows a preference for "..." stuff.  Just look at the page.  Or maybe the real submitters are subconsciously bending their will to conform... quite possible.
 
2013-08-05 07:54:12 AM  

Popcorn Johnny: The woman had over 50 contacts with police and dozens of arrests prior to this, excuse me if I don't shed a tear.

Link


I don't see anything there that justifies her being shot 24 times.
 
2013-08-05 07:54:43 AM  
These people were scum and deserved what they got when they ran from the police and the proceeded to attempt to run the officers over with their car.

I'm tried of these people making my city look bad.
 
2013-08-05 07:55:09 AM  

enry: Popcorn Johnny: The woman had over 50 contacts with police and dozens of arrests prior to this, excuse me if I don't shed a tear.

Link

I don't see anything there that justifies her being shot 24 times.


She was a member of the rebel alliance and a traitor.
 
2013-08-05 07:55:11 AM  
Sucks to be them, but don't get all hopped up on drugs and run from the cops for hours, putting everyone's lives at risk, but nobody is saying anything about that. What if they had hit your wife and children while running from the cops in their car? And killed them? You probably wouldn't mind the cops firing them up then.
 
2013-08-05 07:55:39 AM  

styckx: Just because they were found unarmed doesn't mean they never were.. But hey, let's not let simple things like that stop us from raging at cops in the morning.


Even coke heads know to ditch the gun.

/conjecture
//ridiculous overkill by the cops
 
2013-08-05 07:56:27 AM  

Popcorn Johnny: The woman had over 50 contacts with police and dozens of arrests prior to this, excuse me if I don't shed a tear.

Link


And they were high on drugs. And Hoodies. Don't forget the hoodies.
 
2013-08-05 07:56:28 AM  

Bit'O'Gristle: Sucks to be them, but don't get all hopped up on drugs and run from the cops for hours, putting everyone's lives at risk, but nobody is saying anything about that. What if they had hit your wife and children while running from the cops in their car? And killed them? You probably wouldn't mind the cops firing them up then.


What if the cops hit my wife and children while chasing a car that backfired? What if my wife and kids were shot by the cops bullets? What if it turns out that YOU killed my wife and kids?
 
2013-08-05 07:56:48 AM  
Mob mentality?
 
2013-08-05 07:57:13 AM  

Bit'O'Gristle: Sucks to be them, but don't get all hopped up on drugs and run from the cops for hours, putting everyone's lives at risk, but nobody is saying anything about that. What if they had hit your wife and children while running from the cops in their car? And killed them? You probably wouldn't mind the cops firing them up then.


This.... communication in an ongoing dangerous situation is never going to be perfect. doesnt matter if they had a gun, when they took off they opened their selves up to the possibility of something like this happening
 
2013-08-05 07:58:00 AM  
"innocent couple"?

Innocent people are not high on cocaine, driving on an suspended license, and running from the police.
 
2013-08-05 07:59:46 AM  
Besides the obvious, WTF is wrong with Cleveland lately?  Place is a shiat magnet.
 
2013-08-05 08:00:26 AM  

vladimpaler: "innocent couple"?

Innocent people are not high on cocaine, driving on an suspended license, and running from the police.


Well, if you are given the death penalty for a crime you didn't commit, the correct response isn't "yeah but he wasn't innocent because he had a suspended license"
 
2013-08-05 08:02:22 AM  

vladimpaler: "innocent couple"?

Innocent people are not high on cocaine, driving on an suspended license, and running from the police.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mQF8CILMt8c

 
2013-08-05 08:03:11 AM  

you are a puppet: vladimpaler: "innocent couple"?

Innocent people are not high on cocaine, driving on an suspended license, and running from the police.

Well, if you are given the death penalty for a crime you didn't commit, the correct response isn't "yeah but he wasn't innocent because he had a suspended license"


If you try to rob a gas station and get shot no one biatches at the clerk. This isn't much different. They caused a dangerous and cchaotic situation, which did not work out well for them.
 
2013-08-05 08:04:41 AM  
asset0.cbsistatic.com
 
2013-08-05 08:04:50 AM  

you are a puppet: FullMetalPanda: This is what I don't get about those stupid shootout scenes.  When they shoot up a house/car/etc. you always see them shooting at areas where no freaking would be.  I mean what's the freaking point?

They should be like Zimmerman, one bullet one kill.

There was an officer like that once, Officer Riggs. His motto: one shot, one kill. But then he got too old for this shiat. Time just has a way of getting away from us.


That's because his partner fondled Officer Sugar Tits and they both got suspended.
 
2013-08-05 08:05:18 AM  

you are a puppet: enry: Popcorn Johnny: The woman had over 50 contacts with police and dozens of arrests prior to this, excuse me if I don't shed a tear.

Link

I don't see anything there that justifies her being shot 24 times.

She was a member of the rebel alliance and a traitor.


That just means the can blow up her home planet and....oh wait..
 
2013-08-05 08:05:27 AM  

Frederick: t at 137 times while in their car..."
"One suspect, 30-year-old Malissa Williams, was shot 24 times, and the other, 43-year-old Timothy Russell, was shot 23 times


137 rounds - 47 rounds that hit people = 90 rounds missed.
Unless there was a dog.
 
2013-08-05 08:05:48 AM  
Not stopping is what escalated the situation.  Not excusing the police here, but you know when they get together and the adrenaline is pumping they take on a pack mentality and feed off each other.

When that happens people die, it's that simple
 
2013-08-05 08:06:10 AM  

vladimpaler: Innocent people are not high on cocaine, driving on an suspended license, and running from the police.


They were innocent of the action they were shot to death for.
 
2013-08-05 08:06:53 AM  

vladimpaler: "innocent couple"?

Innocent people are not high on cocaine, driving on an suspended license, and running from the police.


Innocent people don't file false information on official documents either, but they seem to keep getting away with it.
Remember that the next time a cop decides to fark up your day just for the fun of it.
 
2013-08-05 08:07:52 AM  
Nah, subby. According to the article it was shot at.  You seem to think they're all Dirty Hairy level of sniping ability with a pistol.
 
2013-08-05 08:08:10 AM  
FTFA: The pair were shot at 137 times while in their car, parked in a middle school parking lot. No officers were injured in what police called a full blown-out" firefight.

Please excuse me, but how the fark can you have a "firefight" with unarmed persons?  Please tell us, we're eager to hear your explanation.
 
2013-08-05 08:08:28 AM  
Harry.  Dang wake up alarm.
 
2013-08-05 08:08:33 AM  

NutWrench: vladimpaler: "innocent couple"?

Innocent people are not high on cocaine, driving on an suspended license, and running from the police.

Innocent people don't file false information on official documents either, but they seem to keep getting away with it.
Remember that the next time a cop decides to fark up your day just for the fun of it.


I will agree with this. Id like to hear more details on what false information was provided.
 
2013-08-05 08:09:06 AM  
That story, if accurate and true, is just WOW!  Are we to understand that the most dangerous and hard to control criminals are those who are unarmed?  And, that they must be shot and killed for the betterment of society?  Seriously, their response is almost like 'roid rage.

/this is a lesson, kids, that things never end well for you when you try to run from the cops
//just do what the nice officer says, and you might end up in jail, but you'll at least live to see another day
///there's also a video of a guy who refused to follow a female officer's command, and after he called her a "biatch," she shot him dead
 
2013-08-05 08:11:02 AM  
4.bp.blogspot.com
137 times
 
2013-08-05 08:11:04 AM  
The average American is exponentially more likely to be injured or killed by 'our' police than by a terrorist.
 
2013-08-05 08:11:33 AM  

NickelP: you are a puppet: vladimpaler: "innocent couple"?

Innocent people are not high on cocaine, driving on an suspended license, and running from the police.

Well, if you are given the death penalty for a crime you didn't commit, the correct response isn't "yeah but he wasn't innocent because he had a suspended license"

If you try to rob a gas station and get shot no one biatches at the clerk. This isn't much different. They caused a dangerous and cchaotic situation, which did not work out well for them.


If this isn't much different from robbery with a deadly weapon then why are the possible legal sentences for armed robbery and the crimes committed by this couple so drastically different? Could it be that this is in fact, "much different" ?
 
2013-08-05 08:11:45 AM  
 
2013-08-05 08:11:52 AM  

Cold_Sassy: FTFA: The pair were shot at 137 times while in their car, parked in a middle school parking lot. No officers were injured in what police called a full blown-out" firefight.

Please excuse me, but how the fark can you have a "firefight" with unarmed persons?  Please tell us, we're eager to hear your explanation.


Simple, they surrounded it and shot at each other.

I bet they get ambushed by coffee cups in the squad room.
 
2013-08-05 08:13:01 AM  

phrawgh: The average American is exponentially more likely to be injured or killed by 'our' police than by a terrorist.


You are also exponentially more likely to deserve or to have done something to cause that injury/killing with the police vs the one from a terrorist. I don't really see your point here.....
 
2013-08-05 08:16:50 AM  
Today, with our highly militarized and uncompromising police forces (including SWAT teams), society seems to let cops decide when and where to be judge, jury and executioner.

/it must be a cost-saving move in order to save money...so that there will be enough left over for dipstick, crooked politicians to squander foolishly
 
2013-08-05 08:17:50 AM  

you are a puppet: NickelP: you are a puppet: vladimpaler: "innocent couple"?

Innocent people are not high on cocaine, driving on an suspended license, and running from the police.

Well, if you are given the death penalty for a crime you didn't commit, the correct response isn't "yeah but he wasn't innocent because he had a suspended license"

If you try to rob a gas station and get shot no one biatches at the clerk. This isn't much different. They caused a dangerous and cchaotic situation, which did not work out well for them.

If this isn't much different from robbery with a deadly weapon then why are the possible legal sentences for armed robbery and the crimes committed by this couple so drastically different? Could it be that this is in fact, "much different" ?


I'm not sure they are. Causing a police chase like that is getting you in the pokey for a few years for sure. If anyone was injured (more so if was a police officer) That sentence gets long fast
 
2013-08-05 08:19:16 AM  

NickelP: phrawgh: The average American is exponentially more likely to be injured or killed by 'our' police than by a terrorist.

You are also exponentially more likely to deserve or to have done something to cause that injury/killing with the police vs the one from a terrorist. I don't really see your point here.....


It's almost like you are saying the police are justified in killing everyone they kill.
 
2013-08-05 08:19:46 AM  

Popcorn Johnny: The woman had over 50 contacts with police and dozens of arrests prior to this, excuse me if I don't shed a tear.

Link


and therefore deserves to be killed in the street over a relatively minor offense...you know, like God intented
 
2013-08-05 08:22:13 AM  

NickelP: you are a puppet: NickelP: you are a puppet: vladimpaler: "innocent couple"?

Innocent people are not high on cocaine, driving on an suspended license, and running from the police.

Well, if you are given the death penalty for a crime you didn't commit, the correct response isn't "yeah but he wasn't innocent because he had a suspended license"

If you try to rob a gas station and get shot no one biatches at the clerk. This isn't much different. They caused a dangerous and cchaotic situation, which did not work out well for them.

If this isn't much different from robbery with a deadly weapon then why are the possible legal sentences for armed robbery and the crimes committed by this couple so drastically different? Could it be that this is in fact, "much different" ?

I'm not sure they are. Causing a police chase like that is getting you in the pokey for a few years for sure. If anyone was injured (more so if was a police officer) That sentence gets long fast


Well then it's a good thing two people were murdered before any injuries occurred.
 
2013-08-05 08:23:11 AM  

Headso: NickelP: phrawgh: The average American is exponentially more likely to be injured or killed by 'our' police than by a terrorist.

You are also exponentially more likely to deserve or to have done something to cause that injury/killing with the police vs the one from a terrorist. I don't really see your point here.....

It's almost like you are saying the police are justified in killing everyone they kill.


Of course not, but they aren't to blame for every killing either. It is possible for the police not to act perfectly all the time, but still be without blame. No one is perfect and its unreasonable to think that every time someone farks up and causes a dangerous situation, the police will be able to act with complete perfection and knowledge. As someone else mentioned, your odds of not getting hurt by the police go up exponentially if you don't break the law, or minimally comply and don't create a dangerous situation when you do and are caught in the act.
 
2013-08-05 08:26:12 AM  

NickelP: you are a puppet: NickelP: you are a puppet: vladimpaler: "innocent couple"?

Innocent people are not high on cocaine, driving on an suspended license, and running from the police.

Well, if you are given the death penalty for a crime you didn't commit, the correct response isn't "yeah but he wasn't innocent because he had a suspended license"

If you try to rob a gas station and get shot no one biatches at the clerk. This isn't much different. They caused a dangerous and cchaotic situation, which did not work out well for them.

If this isn't much different from robbery with a deadly weapon then why are the possible legal sentences for armed robbery and the crimes committed by this couple so drastically different? Could it be that this is in fact, "much different" ?

I'm not sure they are. Causing a police chase like that is getting you in the pokey for a few years for sure. If anyone was injured (more so if was a police officer) That sentence gets long fast


http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/2911 - armed robbery - 1st degree felony 3-10 years $20,000 fine
http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/2921.331 - evading police and high speed flight - 4th degree felony 6-18 months $5,000 fine
 
2013-08-05 08:28:00 AM  
I'm sure someone else has mentioned it, but a vehicle can be used as a weapon, so I'd hesitate to call them unarmed.  It sure seems like a weird story overall, but same as always, I'd want to hear both sides before getting too outraged.
 
2013-08-05 08:29:59 AM  

you are a puppet: NickelP: you are a puppet: NickelP: you are a puppet: vladimpaler: "innocent couple"?

Innocent people are not high on cocaine, driving on an suspended license, and running from the police.

Well, if you are given the death penalty for a crime you didn't commit, the correct response isn't "yeah but he wasn't innocent because he had a suspended license"

If you try to rob a gas station and get shot no one biatches at the clerk. This isn't much different. They caused a dangerous and cchaotic situation, which did not work out well for them.

If this isn't much different from robbery with a deadly weapon then why are the possible legal sentences for armed robbery and the crimes committed by this couple so drastically different? Could it be that this is in fact, "much different" ?

I'm not sure they are. Causing a police chase like that is getting you in the pokey for a few years for sure. If anyone was injured (more so if was a police officer) That sentence gets long fast

http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/2911 - armed robbery - 1st degree felony 3-10 years $20,000 fine
http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/2921.331 - evading police and high speed flight - 4th degree felony 6-18 months $5,000 fine


alright iI stand corrected.
 
2013-08-05 08:31:47 AM  

At least they got the right car this time.


i.imgur.com
Link
"There was no warning. There were no orders. No commands. Just gunshots."
 
2013-08-05 08:32:54 AM  

MFAWG: Popcorn Johnny: The woman had over 50 contacts with police and dozens of arrests prior to this, excuse me if I don't shed a tear.

Link

And they were high on drugs. And Hoodies. Don't forget the hoodies.


DAOTD
 
2013-08-05 08:33:33 AM  
It's hilarious watching cops shoot at stuff.  One or two open fire and then the flood gates open up and it's Yeeehaaaa PEW PEW PEW!!
 
2013-08-05 08:33:46 AM  
Well, for one thing, police chases are farking stupid. The police doing the chasing are just escalating a situation rather than defusing it. But every johnny idiot podunk moron with a badge watches too much 70s police drama and has to get in their own high speed chase.

Secondly, only the most loathsome idiot would try and claim that a little coke and weed means you deserve to be shot 30 times. How many rich, white, elites would we need to gun down if that were so?

Cops are the enemies of the American people. They have militarized themselves and consider people as prey, and are just looking for an excuse to vent their misanthropy. They'll shoot your little dog for no reason. They'll toss your grandmas house on a false tip.
 
2013-08-05 08:36:25 AM  
Isolated incident.

Again.
 
2013-08-05 08:40:07 AM  

vudukungfu: Frederick: t at 137 times while in their car..."
"One suspect, 30-year-old Malissa Williams, was shot 24 times, and the other, 43-year-old Timothy Russell, was shot 23 times

137 rounds - 47 rounds that hit people = 90 rounds missed.
Unless there was a dog.


They're not likely to miss dogs:  http://www.wnd.com/2013/08/outrage-erupts-over-cops-killing-dogs/
http://kfor.com/2013/07/31/police-shoot-family-dog/
http://www.mnn.com/earth-matters/animals/videos/cops-shoot-dog-leave -n ote
http://www.opposingviews.com/i/society/animal-rights/police-shoot-fa mi ly-dog-while-notifying-family-sons-murder
 
2013-08-05 08:42:12 AM  
I'll never understand how Nickel gets so many bites when so clumsily trolling. Impressive.
 
2013-08-05 08:44:45 AM  
neongoats:
Secondly, only the most loathsome idiot would try and claim that a little coke and weed means you deserve to be shot 30 times. How many rich, white, elites would we need to gun down if that were so?


hmm. many farkers would be living on some seriously borrowed time. ifyagetme
 
2013-08-05 08:48:56 AM  

Voiceofreason01: Popcorn Johnny: The woman had over 50 contacts with police and dozens of arrests prior to this, excuse me if I don't shed a tear.

Link

and therefore deserves to be killed in the street over a relatively minor offense...you know, like God intented


He is lawful evil so for him, yes.
 
2013-08-05 08:49:26 AM  

OgreMagi: So paid administrate suspension?


Correct.  Unless one or more officers decided to leak a video.  In that case they'll be prosecuted to full extent of whatever laws these guys observe.
 
2013-08-05 08:53:41 AM  
So how many of the police where white hispanics?
 
2013-08-05 08:56:08 AM  

Cold_Sassy: FTFA: The pair were shot at 137 times while in their car, parked in a middle school parking lot. No officers were injured in what police called a full blown-out" firefight.

Please excuse me, but how the fark can you have a "firefight" with unarmed persons?  Please tell us, we're eager to hear your explanation.


This.

"Isn't that just like a wop cokehead? Brings a knife Malibu to a gun fight."
 
2013-08-05 08:57:27 AM  

libranoelrose: I'll never understand how Nickel gets so many bites when so clumsily trolling. Impressive.


Not sure if I just got complimented or called an idiot..... or both.....
 
2013-08-05 08:58:14 AM  
Want to get away with murder? Join the police force!
 
2013-08-05 09:00:05 AM  
If they've got 100 cops available to chase down 2 druggies then the police force in cleveland is far too large.
 
2013-08-05 09:01:20 AM  
Drunk, high and fleeing police and you got shot to death as a result? [good.jpg]

Cops fire 137 bullets at an unarmed perp in a middle school parking lot based on mistaken information broadcast over the radio? [notsogood.jpg]

I fail to see the problem with disciplining those involved. Two people got themselves killed by making not one, but a series of dangerous and stupid decisions. That's not a problem. It is a problem that wrong information got passed around and the cops opened fire on unarmed people, however. Such as errors can have serious consequences. There should be discipline and education aimed at preventing it in the future even though the outcome here was, by pure luck, less than horrible.
 
2013-08-05 09:03:22 AM  
As for how you have a full blown firefight... this seems more like poor procedure to me.  With that many policemen, all it takes is one to fire a shot, then all the other 74 know is that a shot was fired, and go into "OMG a gunshot" mode, time to protect ourselves.  Not saying it's right, but I'd say the bulk of the officers weren't thinking execution, but were thinking survival.  I still consider the car a weapon, and don't feel particularly bad for these losers.

My take away on this whole thing would be to call for some serious training/retraining for all 75 officers on how to effectively communicate in a group chase situation.
 
2013-08-05 09:03:50 AM  

DubtodaIll: If they've got 100 cops available to chase down 2 druggies then the police force in cleveland is far too large.


They're too busy not catching anyone kidnapping or killing poor women.
 
2013-08-05 09:07:34 AM  

skozlaw: I fail to see the problem with disciplining those involved.


Get the whole department together, divide them into 10s, and have every tenth man beaten to death by the remaining nine. It's better than they deserve.

Of course, they are just cops. Maybe we can just fire one in 10 and take away the service weapons of the ones left on the force. See how well they do when their brain is their ultimate last resort.
 
2013-08-05 09:07:58 AM  
i226.photobucket.com

Dammit po-po...get your farking act together! No sooner do I defend a cop's actions in the 'Rookie cop shoots
14 year old innocent widdle angel with a gun' thread than you go and pull a stunt like this.
 
2013-08-05 09:08:50 AM  

DubtodaIll: If they've got 100 cops available to chase down 2 druggies then the police force in cleveland is far too large.



1,700 cops for a city of 400,000.  I don't know how that stacks up with other cities.
 
2013-08-05 09:11:12 AM  

Popcorn Johnny: The woman had over 50 contacts with police and dozens of arrests prior to this, excuse me if I don't shed a tear.

Link


So... Death penalty??

\'murica... land of vengence
\\land of murder
\\\land of slashies
 
2013-08-05 09:11:39 AM  

NickelP: Of course not, but they aren't to blame for every killing either. It is possible for the police not to act perfectly all the time, but still be without blame. No one is perfect and its unreasonable to think that every time someone farks up and causes a dangerous situation, the police will be able to act with complete perfection and knowledge. As someone else mentioned, your odds of not getting hurt by the police go up exponentially if you don't break the law, or minimally comply and don't create a dangerous situation when you do and are caught in the act.


Imperfection is arresting the wrong person.   When people die because of a horrendous cock-up like that it is at very least manslaughter.
 
2013-08-05 09:11:57 AM  

Nygis: They tried to run them over with the car.


So they say...

So firing squad.
 
2013-08-05 09:12:28 AM  

Wulfman: DubtodaIll: If they've got 100 cops available to chase down 2 druggies then the police force in cleveland is far too large.


1,700 cops for a city of 400,000.  I don't know how that stacks up with other cities.


In Tokyo The number of inhabitants per police officer is 290:1

So less cops per capita than Tokyo.
 
2013-08-05 09:13:30 AM  

DubtodaIll: If they've got 100 cops available to chase down 2 druggies then the police force in cleveland is far too large.


Not that I'm defending the police here, but the incident started near the Justice Center where there were bound to be lots of cops/police cars.
 
2013-08-05 09:14:14 AM  

Popcorn Johnny: The woman had over 50 contacts with police and dozens of arrests prior to this, excuse me if I don't shed a tear.

Link


Ah. So it's okay then. You know, because execution without a trial is the preferred criminal justice method in the US.
 
2013-08-05 09:14:47 AM  

devlin carnate: Besides the obvious, WTF is wrong with Cleveland lately?  Place is a shiat magnet.


I blame the Hellmouth there. I thought that's where everyone ended up after they destroyed the one found in Sunnydale? The slayers aren't doing there jobs very well.
 
2013-08-05 09:15:11 AM  

NickelP: phrawgh: The average American is exponentially more likely to be injured or killed by 'our' police than by a terrorist.

You are also exponentially more likely to deserve or to have done something to cause that injury/killing with the police vs the one from a terrorist......


<<CITATION NEEDED>>
 
2013-08-05 09:16:11 AM  
WTF is wrong with Cleveland lately?

Lately? Cleveland is nega-Pittsburgh and always has been.
 
2013-08-05 09:16:37 AM  

Popcorn Johnny: The woman had over 50 contacts with police and dozens of arrests prior to this, excuse me if I don't shed a tear.

Link


So, what's the cutoff for summary execution?
 
2013-08-05 09:18:16 AM  
thetubameister:
\'murica... land of vengence
\\land of murder
\\\land of slashies


it does certainly feel like there is a cohort of the population who genuinely feel that way

i for one will be be happy if there's a high overlap with the cohort of the population who don't have a passport
 
2013-08-05 09:18:52 AM  

doglover: Wulfman: DubtodaIll: If they've got 100 cops available to chase down 2 druggies then the police force in cleveland is far too large.


1,700 cops for a city of 400,000.  I don't know how that stacks up with other cities.

In Tokyo The number of inhabitants per police officer is 290:1

So less cops per capita than Tokyo.



10th highest per capita in the USA according to this website:
http://www.governing.com/gov-data/safety-justice/law-enforcement-pol ic e-department-employee-totals-for-cities.html

I'm not 100% sure what I'm going to do with this information, but it's an interesting list.
 
2013-08-05 09:20:46 AM  

neongoats: Well, for one thing, police chases are farking stupid. The police doing the chasing are just escalating a situation rather than defusing it. But every johnny idiot podunk moron with a badge watches too much 70s police drama and has to get in their own high speed chase.

Secondly, only the most loathsome idiot would try and claim that a little coke and weed means you deserve to be shot 30 times. How many rich, white, elites would we need to gun down if that were so?

Cops are the enemies of the American people. They have militarized themselves and consider people as prey, and are just looking for an excuse to vent their misanthropy. They'll shoot your little dog for no reason. They'll toss your grandmas house on a false tip.


This is why we need to go back to Victorian Britain ideals. The only people in the country not allowed to carry firearms are the police officers.
 
2013-08-05 09:21:19 AM  
These people were violent, outlaw thugs that represented a danger to women and children and would have gladly throttled your, their or anyone else's grandmother just to get a kick. A moving vehicle is a deadly weapon itself, so the use of unnecessary violence was more than called for.*


But go ahead with your petty cop hater thread.


* Not intended to be factual statements.
 
2013-08-05 09:21:29 AM  

Popcorn Johnny: The woman had over 50 contacts with police and dozens of arrests prior to this, excuse me if I don't shed a tear.

Link


From your article:  "In addition, police responded to many calls related to Williams' diagnosed mental health problems, which included schizophrenia, the records show."

Did you miss that, or do you support the execution of the mentally ill?
 
2013-08-05 09:22:19 AM  
Dear Austin P.D,

Don't get any ideas from this.

Sincerely,
The residents of Austin, Tx who are sick of yall killing unarmed people.
 
2013-08-05 09:23:44 AM  

doglover: Get the whole department together, divide them into 10s, and have every tenth man beaten to death by the remaining nine. It's better than they deserve.

Of course, they are just cops. Maybe we can just fire one in 10 and take away the service weapons of the ones left on the force. See how well they do when their brain is their ultimate last resort.


Try not to spit too much kid, you might ruin your awesome Che t-shirt.
 
2013-08-05 09:24:13 AM  

Petit_Merdeux: These people were violent, outlaw thugs that represented a danger to women and children ...



But men were safe, so why should I care?
 
2013-08-05 09:25:41 AM  

Mosox42: These people were scum and deserved what they got when they ran from the police and the proceeded to attempt to run the officers over with their car.

I'm tried of these people making my city look bad.


Did they really, or was that just a chickenshiat post-facto charge tossed in to try to salvage a shiatty situation?

Because I had a cousin charged with that once...all he did, literally, was pull into a city parking space in broad daylight.  Dumbass cop stepped off the curb BACKWARDS as he was pulling in, and proceeded to freak out and charge him.

Easy dismissal, and shooting someone in that situation would be manslaughter on the cop's part, imho.
 
2013-08-05 09:25:57 AM  
47 hits out of 137 shots = 34.4% accuracy rate.

So where did the other 90 bullets end up?
=Smidge=
 
2013-08-05 09:29:52 AM  

Popcorn Johnny: The woman had over 50 contacts with police and dozens of arrests prior to this, excuse me if I don't shed a tear.

Link


I wouldn't expect you to shed a tear for someone who apparently has a severe psychological problems, that would be called empathy and you have expressed your lack of it many times before.
 
2013-08-05 09:30:18 AM  

PunGent: Popcorn Johnny: The woman had over 50 contacts with police and dozens of arrests prior to this, excuse me if I don't shed a tear.

Link

From your article:  "In addition, police responded to many calls related to Williams' diagnosed mental health problems, which included schizophrenia, the records show."

Did you miss that, or do you support the execution of the mentally ill?


its popcorn johnny....... He probably hasn't had his coffee yet or he would of thrown in supporting their rape and execution.
 
2013-08-05 09:31:07 AM  

mafiageek1980: The residents of Austin, Tx who are sick of yall killing unarmed people.


Shenanigans.

No unarmed people in Texas.
 
Skr
2013-08-05 09:32:56 AM  
Firefight? One party shooting at non shooters is more of a firing squad.
 
2013-08-05 09:34:49 AM  

vladimpaler: "innocent couple"?

Innocent people are not high on cocaine, driving on an suspended license, and running from the police.


This.

NutWrench: Nineteen of the 75 officers facing discipline for offenses ranging from engaging in a chase without permission to providing false information on police reports will have disciplinary hearings and might be suspended temporarily, according to The Plain Dealer.

Fark you!

Ever wonder where these "cop hate" thread come from? Well, here you go.


Also, this.  It should result in firings and criminal prosecution.  They're abusing authority and committing crimes.  Just because you're a cop doesn't mean you get to file false police reports without consequence.  Regular folk get charged, they should too.
 
2013-08-05 09:35:02 AM  

DubtodaIll: If they've got 100 cops available to chase down 2 druggies then the police force in cleveland is far too large.


...or it was a 25 minute chase through 3 cities, so there are actually officers from multiple departments involved.

/Reading is hard...
 
2013-08-05 09:35:39 AM  
Oh, for christ's sake, people. The victims were moronic scumbags who ran from the police, the cops were moronic scumbags who went all shock 'n awe on a couple of unarmed moronic scumbags.

I think in this case, we should all be able to agree that both sides were bad.
 
2013-08-05 09:39:59 AM  

suburbanguy: DubtodaIll: If they've got 100 cops available to chase down 2 druggies then the police force in cleveland is far too large.

...or it was a 25 minute chase through 3 cities, so there are actually officers from multiple departments involved.

/Reading is hard...



Well, besides which there would be county and state even if the whole thing had remained within the Cleveland city limits.  But it'd be more interesting to hear people explain how large they think a PD should be, wouldn't it?
 
2013-08-05 09:40:50 AM  

Nygis: They tried to run them over with the car.


Nope.

http://www.cleveland.com/metro/index.ssf/2013/02/cleveland_police_ch as e_and_shooting_scene.html

And, since the cops here were apparently using unmarked vehicles leading the chase, it's possible the poor bastards didn't even know they were being pursued.
 
2013-08-05 09:43:14 AM  

suburbanguy: ...or it was a 25 minute chase through 3 cities, so there are actually officers from multiple departments involved.


It still seems pretty unreasonable to involve 60 vehicles in the pursuit of one car in such a way that they all wind up at the end of the chase.

I mean, I get extra vehicles being involved in roadblocks, cars to clear the roadway in front of the suspect, etc., but to have 60 actual pursuit vehicles show up and unload 75 cops at the conclusion of a chase involving two perps?

That just seems like a really good way to make something very, very bad happen....

/ high speed chases for anything but known violent suspects are stupid and cops involved in them should be suspended without pay on the first offense and fired for multiple violations
 
2013-08-05 09:47:13 AM  
I hope Payday 2 has similar scenarios
 
2013-08-05 09:47:19 AM  

skozlaw: doglover: Get the whole department together, divide them into 10s, and have every tenth man beaten to death by the remaining nine. It's better than they deserve.

Of course, they are just cops. Maybe we can just fire one in 10 and take away the service weapons of the ones left on the force. See how well they do when their brain is their ultimate last resort.

Try not to spit too much kid, you might ruin your awesome Che t-shirt.


i25.photobucket.com
 
2013-08-05 09:47:35 AM  
If there's only money in the budget for morons, this is what you get.
Now, it's going to cost money to paper this over.  It's still cheaper to cover it up than it is to pay the pension for a well trained and intelligent police force.

Held hostage by bean counters and tea baggers.
Small government and blah blah blah
 
2013-08-05 09:47:43 AM  

gglibertine: Oh, for christ's sake, people. The victims were moronic scumbags who ran from the police, the cops were moronic scumbags who went all shock 'n awe on a couple of unarmed moronic scumbags.

I think in this case, we should all be able to agree that both sides were bad.


If that's the case, I'm unsure on who I should vote for.
 
2013-08-05 09:48:21 AM  

neongoats: Well, for one thing, police chases are farking stupid. The police doing the chasing are just escalating a situation rather than defusing it. But every johnny idiot podunk moron with a badge watches too much 70s police drama and has to get in their own high speed chase.

Secondly, only the most loathsome idiot would try and claim that a little coke and weed means you deserve to be shot 30 times. How many rich, white, elites would we need to gun down if that were so?

Cops are the enemies of the American people. They have militarized themselves and consider people as prey, and are just looking for an excuse to vent their misanthropy. They'll shoot your little dog for no reason. They'll toss your grandmas house on a false tip.


That and apparently in CA it has to involve a well known celebrity or a minority.  Wil Wheaton was confused last week about an O.J. Simpson level high speed chase that had zero news coverage until after the whole thing was over.  Then a news helicopter appeared to give the verbal highlights since they didn't video any of it.
 
2013-08-05 09:48:51 AM  

PunGent: ....it's possible the poor bastards didn't even know they were being pursued.


Yea, that'll happen when you're driving around drunk and high. Not sure I'd describe an idiot doing cocaine and alcohol and blowing red lights as a "poor bastard", though.
 
2013-08-05 09:49:55 AM  

suburbanguy: DubtodaIll: If they've got 100 cops available to chase down 2 druggies then the police force in cleveland is far too large.

...or it was a 25 minute chase through 3 cities, so there are actually officers from multiple departments involved.

/Reading is hard...


Yep, there's no guarantee 74 cops could stop one car, better to have 75. Now, 76 might have been overkill.
 
2013-08-05 09:50:06 AM  

gglibertine: Oh, for christ's sake, people. The victims were moronic scumbags who ran from the police, the cops were moronic scumbags who went all shock 'n awe on a couple of unarmed moronic scumbags.

I think in this case, we should all be able to agree that both sides were bad.


Sadly, we don't know if they ran because the police started shooting. If they did that to me, I'd probably hide in the floorboard and scream
 
2013-08-05 09:52:40 AM  

doglover: Get the whole department together, divide them into 10s, and have every tenth man beaten to death by the remaining nine. It's better than they deserve.


But, that would decimate them!
 
2013-08-05 09:54:30 AM  

Lady J: neongoats:
Secondly, only the most loathsome idiot would try and claim that a little coke and weed means you deserve to be shot 30 times. How many rich, white, elites would we need to gun down if that were so?


hmm. many farkers would be living on some seriously borrowed time. ifyagetme


no kidding(looks at watch)
 
2013-08-05 09:55:04 AM  
NickelP:
http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/2911 - armed robbery - 1st degree felony 3-10 years $20,000 fine
http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/2921.331 - evading police and high speed flight - 4th degree felony 6-18 months $5,000 fine

alright iI stand corrected.


IANAL, and I don't know the laws in Texas, but in Cali, you wouldn't just get charged with evading police and high speed flight. You'd get dinged for every red light and stop sign you blew (failure to stop), every pedestrian on the street they can see whom you've endangered (reckless endangerment), every mile per hour you go over the speed limit every time you do it. . . And that's how the sentence adds up quick. By the time you're done there's 42 counts at 18 months a piece.

/only comment on this story is: When the only tool you have is a gun, every problem looks like a chance to get shot.
 
2013-08-05 09:55:09 AM  

doglover: 1,700 cops for a city of 400,000. I don't know how that stacks up with other cities.

In Tokyo The number of inhabitants per police officer is 290:1

So less cops per capita than Tokyo.


Actually...
400,000:1700 = 235:1
That's more cops per capita than 290:1.
 
2013-08-05 09:55:39 AM  
Face it.  Cops are just better than you.

www.davidbarrkirtley.com
 
2013-08-05 09:55:44 AM  

skozlaw: PunGent: ....it's possible the poor bastards didn't even know they were being pursued.

Yea, that'll happen when you're driving around drunk and high. Not sure I'd describe an idiot doing cocaine and alcohol and blowing red lights as a "poor bastard", though.


Did you read any of the links?  "Found traces of cocaine and alcohol" doesn't equal DUI.

If they were, I'm sure the cops would've said so...they flat-out made up enough crap.
 
d23 [TotalFark]
2013-08-05 09:56:22 AM  
img13.imageshack.us

He's comin' right for us!

fark this
 
2013-08-05 09:57:47 AM  

skozlaw: PunGent: ....it's possible the poor bastards didn't even know they were being pursued.

Yea, that'll happen when you're driving around drunk and high. Not sure I'd describe an idiot doing cocaine and alcohol and blowing red lights as a "poor bastard", though.


And if they had hit and killed say a kid while fleeing, people would be saying why didnt the cops take them out.

/arm chair QB, this is how it works
//awww, poor criminals
 
2013-08-05 09:58:06 AM  

Bit'O'Gristle: Sucks to be them, but don't get all hopped up on drugs and run from the cops for hours, putting everyone's lives at risk, but nobody is saying anything about that. What if they had hit your wife and children while running from the cops in their car? And killed them? You probably wouldn't mind the cops firing them up then.


Yeah, you run from the cops and occasionally something bad happens.

NickelP: This.... communication in an ongoing dangerous situation is never going to be perfect. doesnt matter if they had a gun, when they took off they opened their selves up to the possibility of something like this happening


Exactly.  The military calls it the fog of war, there is no civilian term even though the same thing happens.

PunGent: Mosox42: These people were scum and deserved what they got when they ran from the police and the proceeded to attempt to run the officers over with their car.

I'm tried of these people making my city look bad.

Did they really, or was that just a chickenshiat post-facto charge tossed in to try to salvage a shiatty situation?


It's probably legit.  What tends to happen is these guys who are running from the cops get cornered and try to use their car to make the blockade go away.  They are intending the guys to jump out of the way like most people would but cops will likely respond will bullets.
 
2013-08-05 09:58:13 AM  

skozlaw: suburbanguy: ...or it was a 25 minute chase through 3 cities, so there are actually officers from multiple departments involved.

It still seems pretty unreasonable to involve 60 vehicles in the pursuit of one car in such a way that they all wind up at the end of the chase.

I mean, I get extra vehicles being involved in roadblocks, cars to clear the roadway in front of the suspect, etc., but to have 60 actual pursuit vehicles show up and unload 75 cops at the conclusion of a chase involving two perps?

That just seems like a really good way to make something very, very bad happen....

/ high speed chases for anything but known violent suspects are stupid and cops involved in them should be suspended without pay on the first offense and fired for multiple violations


If they'd played Yakety Sax, it would've been fine...
 
2013-08-05 10:00:44 AM  

skozlaw: / high speed chases for anything but known violent suspects are stupid and cops involved in them should be suspended without pay on the first offense and fired for multiple violations


I don't get this. If someone speeds off from the cops at a traffic stop, the cops immediately give chase because "they are probably guilty of something else". And the police consider that probable cause to risk the lives of innocent bystanders. If they speed off and get away, so what? All you had on them was a speeding ticket. Look at your dashcam, get the license plate and have an officer go say hello for speeding and resisting arrest / fleeing police.

In this case, they were at a middle school during the time of year that teachers and staff start returning to prep classrooms. And kids tend to play on school playground equipment year-round. And many schools don't have huge plots of land or have their parking lots on the edges of the huge plot they do have. How do we know they weren't firing towards a busy road or toward houses?

How much danger was this shooting causing to the citizen bystanders?

It should be that the police let them go and catch them later. There have been quite a few incidents where if a subject had been let go an innocent bystander wouldn't have been hit by the suspect (or the officer). I can never reconcile this risk to public harm versus the action that police take based on a minor traffic violation.

If they were observed driving recklessly/DUI? They are chasing an armed robbery victim? The police officer saw/heard shots fired? Chase them down. Going 78 in a 70 isn't enough reason to chase them down and risk the public's life.
 
2013-08-05 10:04:39 AM  

gglibertine: Oh, for christ's sake, people. The victims were moronic scumbags who ran from the police, the cops were moronic scumbags who went all shock 'n awe on a couple of unarmed moronic scumbags.

I think in this case, we should all be able to agree that both sides were bad.


Is behaving badly the new standard for a police led firing squad? Must have missed this in my Conn Law and Crim Procedures classes.
 
2013-08-05 10:05:15 AM  

Loren: Bit'O'Gristle: Sucks to be them, but don't get all hopped up on drugs and run from the cops for hours, putting everyone's lives at risk, but nobody is saying anything about that. What if they had hit your wife and children while running from the cops in their car? And killed them? You probably wouldn't mind the cops firing them up then.

Yeah, you run from the cops and occasionally something bad happens.

NickelP: This.... communication in an ongoing dangerous situation is never going to be perfect. doesnt matter if they had a gun, when they took off they opened their selves up to the possibility of something like this happening

Exactly.  The military calls it the fog of war, there is no civilian term even though the same thing happens.

PunGent: Mosox42: These people were scum and deserved what they got when they ran from the police and the proceeded to attempt to run the officers over with their car.

I'm tried of these people making my city look bad.

Did they really, or was that just a chickenshiat post-facto charge tossed in to try to salvage a shiatty situation?

It's probably legit.  What tends to happen is these guys who are running from the cops get cornered and try to use their car to make the blockade go away.  They are intending the guys to jump out of the way like most people would but cops will likely respond will bullets.


The cops here made up EVERY OTHER PIECE OF INFORMATION, and that's your assumption?

You seem to suffer from the Just World delusion.
 
2013-08-05 10:07:01 AM  

Joe Blowme: skozlaw: PunGent: ....it's possible the poor bastards didn't even know they were being pursued.

Yea, that'll happen when you're driving around drunk and high. Not sure I'd describe an idiot doing cocaine and alcohol and blowing red lights as a "poor bastard", though.

And if they had hit and killed say a kid while fleeing, people would be saying why didnt the cops take them out.

/arm chair QB, this is how it works
//awww, poor criminals


If they were Al Quaeda, and had a suitcase nuke in the trunk, I would've been fine with shooting them.

/useless hypotheticals are useless
 
2013-08-05 10:09:50 AM  

phrawgh: The average American is exponentially more likely to be injured or killed by 'our' police than by a terrorist.


That word needs to be stricken from the English language.  It is almost never used correctly.

If one person is killed by a terrorist, 11.0001is an exponential increase.
 
2013-08-05 10:10:56 AM  

styckx: Just because they were found unarmed doesn't mean they never were.. But hey, let's not let simple things like that stop us from raging at cops in the morning.


I'm sure they were armed at some point in their lives. Can't be too careful.
 
2013-08-05 10:11:40 AM  

cwolf20: gglibertine: Oh, for christ's sake, people. The victims were moronic scumbags who ran from the police, the cops were moronic scumbags who went all shock 'n awe on a couple of unarmed moronic scumbags.

I think in this case, we should all be able to agree that both sides were bad.

Sadly, we don't know if they ran because the police started shooting. If they did that to me, I'd probably hide in the floorboard and scream


Actually, all we know is they ran a stop sign...we don't know if they "ran" at all at this point.  They might have pulled over into the parking lot immediately.  And, since dozens of cops have falsified evidence, presumption of innocence trumps the rest, for better or worse.  Even legit charges will get tossed, due to police screwups.

So, local taxpayers better bend over for the lawsuit.
 
2013-08-05 10:13:05 AM  
It's ok. They were just a couple of groids.
 
2013-08-05 10:14:07 AM  
Maybe I missed it, but can someone tell me what initiated the chase in the first place? What did this couple do?
 
2013-08-05 10:14:13 AM  

ReverendJasen: doglover: 1,700 cops for a city of 400,000. I don't know how that stacks up with other cities.

In Tokyo The number of inhabitants per police officer is 290:1

So less cops per capita than Tokyo.

Actually...
400,000:1700 = 235:1
That's more cops per capita than 290:1.


Oh yeah, 235 is citizens, not cops. Duh. Brain fart.
 
2013-08-05 10:18:25 AM  

tblax: Maybe I missed it, but can someone tell me what initiated the chase in the first place? What did this couple do?


As I understand it - they ran a stop sign.

The pursuing officers probably ran the plates.
 
2013-08-05 10:19:30 AM  

Bit'O'Gristle: Sucks to be them, but don't get all hopped up on drugs and run from the cops for hours, putting everyone's lives at risk, but nobody is saying anything about that. What if they had hit your wife and children while running from the cops in their car? And killed them? You probably wouldn't mind the cops firing them up then.


Yeah, that's a great way to look at it.  That never happened but if it did happen we sure would feel this way about that!  Wait....wtf was your point?
 
2013-08-05 10:21:27 AM  

PunGent: Nygis: They tried to run them over with the car.

Nope.

http://www.cleveland.com/metro/index.ssf/2013/02/cleveland_police_ch as e_and_shooting_scene.html

And, since the cops here were apparently using unmarked vehicles leading the chase, it's possible the poor bastards didn't even know they were being pursued.


I seriously doubt that.  Unmarked cars generally have hidden lights and I don't believe there were no marked cruisers.

OTOH, from your link it says the shooting lasted 30 seconds, but one of the 13 who fired managed to shoot 49 rounds?   Huh?  I know there are automatic weapons that can easily fire that fast, but seriously?
 
2013-08-05 10:25:41 AM  

gfid: PunGent: Nygis: They tried to run them over with the car.

Nope.

http://www.cleveland.com/metro/index.ssf/2013/02/cleveland_police_ch as e_and_shooting_scene.html

And, since the cops here were apparently using unmarked vehicles leading the chase, it's possible the poor bastards didn't even know they were being pursued.

I seriously doubt that.  Unmarked cars generally have hidden lights and I don't believe there were no marked cruisers.

OTOH, from your link it says the shooting lasted 30 seconds, but one of the 13 who fired managed to shoot 49 rounds?   Huh?  I know there are automatic weapons that can easily fire that fast, but seriously?


Do you want to end up being shot at? Then don't question the record.
 
2013-08-05 10:26:07 AM  
Nothing to see here, citizen. Move along.
 
2013-08-05 10:34:04 AM  
fark the police. The only good one's a dead one.
 
2013-08-05 10:35:35 AM  
FTP
 
2013-08-05 10:37:03 AM  

tblax: Maybe I missed it, but can someone tell me what initiated the chase in the first place? What did this couple do?


According to the cops...who've been found to be untruthful..they ran a stop sign.

According to the forensic mechanic quoted, their car backfired....which sounds like gunfire, if you're a scared little girl...or a Cleveland police officer.

And according to some folks here, traffic violations are a capital crime.
 
2013-08-05 10:40:32 AM  

doglover: ReverendJasen: doglover: 1,700 cops for a city of 400,000. I don't know how that stacks up with other cities.

In Tokyo The number of inhabitants per police officer is 290:1

So less cops per capita than Tokyo.

Actually...
400,000:1700 = 235:1
That's more cops per capita than 290:1.

Oh yeah, 235 is citizens, not cops. Duh. Brain fart.


Cops are citizens. Usually. However, the police don't police the police, so for accuracy's sake, they should be counted separately from other citizens. Coincidentally, cops are also usually civilians, although you wouldn't know it from listening to them talk.
 
2013-08-05 10:41:03 AM  

gfid: PunGent: Nygis: They tried to run them over with the car.

Nope.

http://www.cleveland.com/metro/index.ssf/2013/02/cleveland_police_ch as e_and_shooting_scene.html

And, since the cops here were apparently using unmarked vehicles leading the chase, it's possible the poor bastards didn't even know they were being pursued.

I seriously doubt that.  Unmarked cars generally have hidden lights and I don't believe there were no marked cruisers.

OTOH, from your link it says the shooting lasted 30 seconds, but one of the 13 who fired managed to shoot 49 rounds?   Huh?  I know there are automatic weapons that can easily fire that fast, but seriously?


There were marked cruisers, but the article quotes an officer complaining about UN-marked cars leading the chase...makes it hard to know who's being chased.  We don't know if the un-marked units used their lights, even if they had them...and since the cops have already lied about several other things, you can't really trust them on that point.

Sad when junkies have more credibility than officers, frankly.

Afa the 49 rounds in 30 seconds, I'm not really a handgun guy...I don't know how likely that is.

I suspect the cops are compressing the shooting time frame...easy to do, accidentally, in the heat of "combat", or it might be deliberate, to make themselves look better.   They're pretty much grasping for straws on this one.
 
2013-08-05 10:45:12 AM  
"discipline" = Two Weeks Paid Administrative Leave.
 
2013-08-05 10:48:00 AM  
FTA: "Use of unnecessary force in the apprehension of the Blues Brothers has been approved."
 
2013-08-05 10:51:38 AM  

dickfreckle: I'll never understand why it takes 60 police vehicles to chase one car. This isn't the Blues Brothers.


This story comes from an urban environment. I don't picture 60 cars chasing one, Blues Brothers style. I picture cars "involved in the pursuit" as fanning out, staging at intersections, communicating by radio and attempting a coordinated effort to herd the fleeing vehicle in a particular direction and ultimately stopping it.

I don't know Cleveland, but I imagine it's similar to other larger cities with blocks, side-streets and alleys that would necessitate a good number of police units in order to cast a net sufficient to catch the fleeing suspect.

This is all aside of the propriety of the police officers' actions after the stop, which are certainly questionable.
 
2013-08-05 10:51:54 AM  

PunGent: "Found traces of cocaine and alcohol"


There's about a bajillion links so I'll admit that maybe I missed one, but the only link of the seven or eight I opened where the word "trace" was found was in relation to the passenger's marijuana test.

Sooo.... gonna have to do a [citation needed] on ya, buddy.
 
2013-08-05 10:59:05 AM  

Loren: Exactly. The military calls it the fog of war, there is no civilian term even though the same thing happens.


That's because even the dumbest cop should be able to figure out that he's not on a battlefield.
 
2013-08-05 11:06:07 AM  

skozlaw: PunGent: "Found traces of cocaine and alcohol"

There's about a bajillion links so I'll admit that maybe I missed one, but the only link of the seven or eight I opened where the word "trace" was found was in relation to the passenger's marijuana test.

Sooo.... gonna have to do a [citation needed] on ya, buddy.


Russell might have fled from police initially, fueling the massive chase,. Toxicology results show that Russell was at the time of his death.  Williams was also high on cocaine and had marijuana in her system.

Read more:http://www.businessinsider.com/cleveland-police-disciplined-in-d eadly- chase-2013-8#ixzz2b6it56Qc
 
2013-08-05 11:11:45 AM  
To "discipline" them?

75 Shades of Blue
 
2013-08-05 11:14:19 AM  
But after the chase ended in a gunfight near Heritage Middle School, police checked the car and realized neither Williams nor Russell was armed.

Nobody had a throwdown gun? The cops should be disciplined.
 
2013-08-05 11:15:24 AM  

wambu: To "discipline" them?

75 Shades of Blue


Doesn't that movie have Kathleen Turner in it?
 
2013-08-05 11:17:05 AM  

NutWrench: Loren: Exactly. The military calls it the fog of war, there is no civilian term even though the same thing happens.

That's because even the dumbest cop should be able to figure out that he's not on a battlefield.


"Should" be able to, but probably doesn't. They talk about it being "a war out there" and a lot of them really think of themselves as semi-military. Post 9/11 hysteria made us give up the 4th Amendment in favor of security, so they expect their authority to be unquestioned and react aggressively when it is not.
 
2013-08-05 11:17:07 AM  

cwolf20: Harry.  Dang wake up alarm.


Actually, I liked your original posting suggesting  Dirty Hairy.  You could have a bright future as a fetish porn director...or Ke$ha's business manager.
 
2013-08-05 11:20:23 AM  

gglibertine: Oh, for christ's sake, people. The victims were moronic scumbags who ran from the police, the cops were moronic scumbags who went all shock 'n awe on a couple of unarmed moronic scumbags.

I think in this case, we should all be able to agree that both sides were bad.


Sure.  Now in the aftermath, I've noticed that ONE side is dead, executed in public.  Since BOTH sides were bad, how can we even things up in the here and now, whatwith one side publicly executed and the other not just still breathing, but still being paid by our taxes.

/things that make you go hmmmmmmmm
 
2013-08-05 11:27:32 AM  

theflatline: Read more:http://www.businessinsider.com/cleveland-police-disciplined-in-d eadly- chase-2013-8#ixzz2b6it56Qc


Heh... wrong citation in the wrong direction. He claimed the amounts were 'trace' but none of the links seem to say that in relation to anything but the THC in the passenger's blood. They all either outright state or imply that the driver was high as a kite and possibly drunk as well.
 
2013-08-05 11:32:37 AM  
Next they're gonna be calling in airstrikes on jaywalkers...nothing against the guys and gals coming back from Iraq and Afghanistan, but they sometimes forget that they're back home. A couple of weeks ago, at the bar I go to, there was a little scuffle outside and some of the local yokels showed up. Every one had a high-and-tight and instead of the normal uniform, all of them were wearing the "alternate" uniform the town I live in has authorized for situations like searches and stuff that'd mess up the standard uniform-black BDUS with bloused boots. They looked more like a bunch of the Stormfront guys than cops and hearing them talk on the radios reminded me of when I was in the service again.
 
2013-08-05 11:34:56 AM  
upload.wikimedia.org
 
2013-08-05 11:36:34 AM  

Evil Mackerel: wambu: To "discipline" them?

75 Shades of Blue

Doesn't that movie have Kathleen Turner in it?


I hope it was from one of her few "good years".
 
2013-08-05 11:45:59 AM  
Thread needs William Defoe.
 
2013-08-05 12:04:55 PM  

flynn80: Thread needs William Defoe.


Really? You wanna fap to this?
 
2013-08-05 12:16:38 PM  

skozlaw: theflatline: Read more:http://www.businessinsider.com/cleveland-police-disciplined-in-d eadly- chase-2013-8#ixzz2b6it56Qc

Heh... wrong citation in the wrong direction. He claimed the amounts were 'trace' but none of the links seem to say that in relation to anything but the THC in the passenger's blood. They all either outright state or imply that the driver was high as a kite and possibly drunk as well.


Did we maybe check 75 cops' blood for cocaine and MJ?
No need, they are being "disciplined". Since I have first person experience w/ this sorta thingie, I'll wager 75% of them fail the same standards foisted on the deceased.

"Backfire" o, rly?
Most of you have never seen a backfire in your life. They went out of use in like 1970 when engine controls started their incremental climb.

The lesson I take away is there is a real problem with disconnecting the police from the policed and the solution will self find. And you will not like it.
At the top, the Chief, is where you start to find the real asshats running things. The ones that know they cannot replace all those sociopaths, must keep 'em on "discipline" rather than dismissal.
"Police spokespersons" have got to invent some better up to date lies.
 
2013-08-05 12:23:52 PM  

snocone: "Backfire" o, rly?
Most of you have never seen a backfire in your life. They went out of use in like 1970 when engine controls started their incremental climb.


Most recent one I remember was in 1991. A K-Car.
 
2013-08-05 12:35:29 PM  

skozlaw: PunGent: "Found traces of cocaine and alcohol"

There's about a bajillion links so I'll admit that maybe I missed one, but the only link of the seven or eight I opened where the word "trace" was found was in relation to the passenger's marijuana test.

Sooo.... gonna have to do a [citation needed] on ya, buddy.


They charge 'em with DUI?  there ya go.
 
2013-08-05 12:39:19 PM  

theflatline: skozlaw: PunGent: "Found traces of cocaine and alcohol"

There's about a bajillion links so I'll admit that maybe I missed one, but the only link of the seven or eight I opened where the word "trace" was found was in relation to the passenger's marijuana test.

Sooo.... gonna have to do a [citation needed] on ya, buddy.

Russell might have fled from police initially, fueling the massive chase,. Toxicology results show that Russell was at the time of his death.  Williams was also high on cocaine and had marijuana in her system.

Read more:http://www.businessinsider.com/cleveland-police-disciplined-in-d eadly- chase-2013-8#ixzz2b6it56Qc


Again, we don't know that.  That link you post says "he was high" and gives a sub-link...which DOESN'T say any such thing.

Crappy reporting at best, mindlessly taking the cop's word for it at worst.

Hell, at this point, I'd have to be suspicious of even the formal pathologist's report.  Gonna need an independent autopsy before I trust the locals on this one.
 
2013-08-05 12:39:21 PM  
Russell might have fled from police initially, fueling the massive chase,. Toxicology results show that Russell was at the time of his death.  Williams was also high on cocaine and had marijuana in her system.

And nothing of value was lost.  fark people who drive under the influence.  I wish they'd all get shot.
 
2013-08-05 12:41:07 PM  

wolfpaq777: Russell might have fled from police initially, fueling the massive chase,. Toxicology results show that Russell was at the time of his death.  Williams was also high on cocaine and had marijuana in her system.

And nothing of value was lost.  fark people who drive under the influence.  I wish they'd all get shot.


Yeah...go read the actual links again.  NO proof they were "high"...and that's not a legal definition, anyway.
If there was, the cops would be shouting it from the rooftops.

You may be right, these two may be losers of the first degree...but that shouldn't be a death sentence.

We'd have to dig a LOT of graves, in that case :)
 
2013-08-05 12:44:14 PM  

skozlaw: theflatline: Read more:http://www.businessinsider.com/cleveland-police-disciplined-in-d eadly- chase-2013-8#ixzz2b6it56Qc

Heh... wrong citation in the wrong direction. He claimed the amounts were 'trace' but none of the links seem to say that in relation to anything but the THC in the passenger's blood. They all either outright state or imply that the driver was high as a kite and possibly drunk as well.


Actually, those reporters may have set themselves up for a serious slander/libel suit, unless the tox screen backs them up.   The cops didn't allege weaving, which you'd expect from a DUI suspect.

The driver is high as a kite, ran a stop sign, but kept it between the lines?  Please.
 
2013-08-05 12:45:09 PM  

MooseUpNorth: snocone: "Backfire" o, rly?
Most of you have never seen a backfire in your life. They went out of use in like 1970 when engine controls started their incremental climb.

Most recent one I remember was in 1991. A K-Car.


Been at least ten years for me, I think.  I guess if it was a young cop who called it in, partly excusable.
 
2013-08-05 12:52:33 PM  

Bit'O'Gristle: Sucks to be them, but don't get all hopped up on drugs and run from the cops for hours, putting everyone's lives at risk, but nobody is saying anything about that. What if they had hit your wife and children while running from the cops in their car? And killed them? You probably wouldn't mind the cops firing them up then.


And if my aunt had a dick she'd be my uncle.

But cool story anyways.

Oink oink oink
 
2013-08-05 12:57:04 PM  
"Ditched in the Mailbu!?"

"Oh, heinous!"

"That car's like your castle, man!"
 
2013-08-05 01:06:48 PM  

gglibertine: Oh, for christ's sake, people. The victims were moronic scumbags who ran from the police, the cops were moronic scumbags who went all shock 'n awe on a couple of unarmed moronic scumbags.

I think in this case, we should all be able to agree that both sides were bad.


Surely. Because when the police violate the 5th, 6th and 14th Amendments it's not nearly as bad as, ya know.... running away. Surely.

/ Smart to run? Nope. But getting shot at 137 times while unarmed is a different animal in a different ballpark.
 
2013-08-05 01:08:01 PM  

Frederick: Screw you Pamela Engel for a horribly written article.

I cant tell if there was four people shot or two people shot.

"The pair were shot at 137 times while in their car..."
"One suspect, 30-year-old Malissa Williams, was shot 24 times, and the other, 43-year-old Timothy Russell, was shot 23 times."


They were shot at 137 times but only struck the couple 47 times, meaning that 90 of their shots either missed or were fired in warning. I'm confused as to whether the cops should be berated for shooting an unarmed couple or for being such horrible marksmen.
 
2013-08-05 01:13:40 PM  

PunGent: wolfpaq777: Russell might have fled from police initially, fueling the massive chase,. Toxicology results show that Russell was at the time of his death.  Williams was also high on cocaine and had marijuana in her system.

And nothing of value was lost.  fark people who drive under the influence.  I wish they'd all get shot.

Yeah...go read the actual links again.  NO proof they were "high"...and that's not a legal definition, anyway.
If there was, the cops would be shouting it from the rooftops.

You may be right, these two may be losers of the first degree...but that shouldn't be a death sentence.

We'd have to dig a LOT of graves, in that case :)


Either they were or they weren't.  If they were, I'm glad they got shot.

I'm not "hoping" they were under the influence or arguing that they were, I just farking hate assholes who drive under the influence.  The article mentioned that they were thus my comment.
 
2013-08-05 01:14:39 PM  

NickelP: NutWrench: vladimpaler: "innocent couple"?

Innocent people are not high on cocaine, driving on an suspended license, and running from the police.

Innocent people don't file false information on official documents either, but they seem to keep getting away with it.
Remember that the next time a cop decides to fark up your day just for the fun of it.

I will agree with this. Id like to hear more details on what false information was provided.


As TFA notes...they lied to the dispatcher.

RTFA.
 
2013-08-05 01:14:53 PM  
In Cleveland's defense, it hasn't started snowing yet and we're already into Aug. (although we did come very close to a frost last night) Plus, housing prices have jumped from an averge of $40 to $140 on ababdoned homes (which make up 35% of the sales within the city. And we haven't had a major hurricane hit for more than 10 years! Unemployment is down to 17% and aveage household income is up to 16k.
All in all Cleveland's a lump, plump, dump, plum! You can take your chances on a warm, high income, vibrant locale; me I'll take Cleveland where the weather is immune from catasrophies other than ice storms, straight-line winds, flodding from weeks of rain, blizzards and the occasional mass suicide from six months of no sunny days.
 
2013-08-05 01:21:01 PM  

NutWrench: Nineteen of the 75 officers facing discipline for offenses ranging from engaging in a chase without permission to providing false information on police reports will have disciplinary hearings and might be suspended temporarily, according to The Plain Dealer.

Fark you!

Ever wonder where these "cop hate" thread come from? Well, here you go.


I'd wager that quite a few cops are upset when things like this happen, too. I know my father (former cop) is always ticked when he sees it. Bad cops make it harder for good cops to do their jobs.
 
2013-08-05 01:27:05 PM  
I pretty much just came here for the storm trooper jokes. Leaving satisfied.
 
2013-08-05 01:38:28 PM  
I needed to know what ethnicity they were before I could be compelled to care. I have since found that the couple in question were black, thus clearly suspicious. So suspicious that they had to be fired upon over 100 times. Can't be too careful, you know. One of them might have sprang forth from the car and tried to beat up one of the armed officers. It's the Zimmerman Standard. Well, the Zimmerman Standard Pro (as it involves actual law enforcement, not a random dipshiat with a gun).
 
2013-08-05 01:49:29 PM  

Louisiana_Sitar_Club: Bit'O'Gristle: Sucks to be them, but don't get all hopped up on drugs and run from the cops for hours, putting everyone's lives at risk, but nobody is saying anything about that. What if they had hit your wife and children while running from the cops in their car? And killed them? You probably wouldn't mind the cops firing them up then.

Yeah, that's a great way to look at it.  That never happened but if it did happen we sure would feel this way about that!  Wait....wtf was your point?


Don't mind Bit'OGristle - he's a cop himself, so his point is the same as always  - cops can do no wrong. You'll find him in every police misconduct thread, defending any and all police actions while slandering and disparaging the wrongly arrested/injured/murdered civilians in the story.

/This is the third time I've seen this assclown rationalize extrajudicial execution.
//assclown
///A_S_S_C_L_O_W_N
 
2013-08-05 01:50:15 PM  
What was running through the thick-skulled and overzealous copper's "brains":  'Dispatch said we gonna bag some big criminals.  We gonna be famous!!!"

assets.nydailynews.com

Favorite quote from article, "Officers told investigators they saw the suspects in the car with what looked like a gun."  Which is police code for anything visible to the naked eye.
 
2013-08-05 01:51:11 PM  
BTW, Faye Dunaway is the hottest criminal of all time
 
2013-08-05 02:04:16 PM  
For the record, that's 30 fewer bullets than the 167 bullets that were fired at Bonnie & Clyde, who were armed, most definitely and distinctly.

Yes, some people just Google the picture and leave it hanging there for you to draw your own conclusions, but Brantgoose gets you the hard numbers, thanks to the Channel 6 News Team and Cherry Cola, both of which Brantgoose hates with a passion.
 
2013-08-05 02:11:27 PM  
Nineteen of the 75 officers facingdiscipline for offenses ranging from engaging in a chase without permission to providing false information on police reports will have disciplinary hearings and might be suspended temporarily, according to The Plain Dealer.

...Suspended temporarily for joining a police chase without permission? You are therefore leaving your patrol and using department resources unnecessarily as well as complicating the direction of other resources which is possibly dangerous during high speed pursuits. There were sixty vehicles in the end; not as though you are an action hero who won't let the perp get away. Then to provide false information on the report.

Sh*t needs to happen there.
 
2013-08-05 02:23:24 PM  

NutWrench: Nineteen of the 75 officers facing discipline for offenses ranging from engaging in a chase without permission to providing false information on police reports will have disciplinary hearings and might be suspended temporarily, according to The Plain Dealer.

Fark you!

Ever wonder where these "cop hate" thread come from? Well, here you go.


Vangor: Nineteen of the 75 officers facingdiscipline for offenses ranging from engaging in a chase without permission to providing false information on police reports will have disciplinary hearings and might be suspended temporarily, according to The Plain Dealer.

...Suspended temporarily for joining a police chase without permission? You are therefore leaving your patrol and using department resources unnecessarily as well as complicating the direction of other resources which is possibly dangerous during high speed pursuits. There were sixty vehicles in the end; not as though you are an action hero who won't let the perp get away. Then to provide false information on the report.

Sh*t needs to happen there.


If ever I saw a cop face justice, I'd stop instantly hating all cops.
 
2013-08-05 03:05:13 PM  

PunGent: They charge 'em with DUI? there ya go.


Yes, they charged a dead man with DUI. WTF is wrong with you?

PunGent: Actually, those reporters may have set themselves up for a serious slander/libel suit, unless the tox screen backs them up. The cops didn't allege weaving, which you'd expect from a DUI suspect.


In other words, not only do you have no citation for your claim of "trace" intoxicants, a claim in direct contradiction to the claim made by the people reporting from closer to the story and with more access to the evidence than you, you actually made up the words you put in quotes?

snocone: Did we maybe check 75 cops' blood for cocaine and MJ?


What would that have to do with anything? Would that make the driver less drunk and/or high if the cops were also on dope?
 
2013-08-05 03:09:56 PM  
IMHO, the use of deadly force has gotten WAY out of hand, along with such ass-hattery as using SWAT units to serve misdemeanor warrants and such.

I think any time a cop fires his/her weapon, it's an automatic one-month admin leave on half-pay.  Is the cop more interested in blazing away or keeping half their paycheck?  I suspect most would hold their fire until the situation trulybecame one of life-or-death.

Yeah, the guy ran, but having 60+ vehicles chasing him, along with 90 rounds unaccounted for, posed a SIGNIFICANTLY greater danger than simply letting them go.  I'm guessing they got the tag number; they can drop by some morning while the 2 are still sleeping it off and pick them up.
 
2013-08-05 03:12:46 PM  
No it was suicide, they jumped in front of those bullets.
 
2013-08-05 03:25:35 PM  

JerkyMeat: America is a farking nightmare.  It deserves the worse the world can offer.


Do you know how I know you don't travel or read the news?
 
2013-08-05 03:44:32 PM  
The discipline for not following procedures and/or lying--good.  Cops need to abide by the rules they are told to follow.

Basically no trouble for shooting the two losers?  Fine by me.  The more repeat offenders off the streets the better.
 
2013-08-05 03:47:24 PM  

styckx: Just because they were found unarmed doesn't mean they never were.. But hey, let's not let simple things like that stop us from raging at cops in the morning.


is it necessary to fill them with bullets once they have ditched the guns?
 
2013-08-05 04:14:05 PM  
Drunk, high on coke and pot, with a suspended drivers license, running from the cops when they try to pull you over.

It doesn't sound like the cops handled this well, but for the dead druggies, it's really hard to find much sympathy.
 
2013-08-05 04:48:30 PM  
This is pretty much the poster for excessive force.
 
2013-08-05 05:05:04 PM  

cirrhosis_and_halitosis: What was running through the thick-skulled and overzealous copper's "brains":  'Dispatch said we gonna bag some big criminals.  We gonna be famous!!!"

[assets.nydailynews.com image 428x500]

Favorite quote from article, "Officers told investigators they saw the suspects in the car with what looked like a gun."   Which is police code for anything visible to the naked eye.


Knows that feel:
i1.ytimg.com
/hot
//no relation
 
2013-08-05 05:38:19 PM  

JuggleGeek: Drunk, high on coke and pot, with a suspended drivers license, running from the cops when they try to pull you over.

It doesn't sound like the cops handled this well, but for the dead druggies, it's really hard to find much sympathy.


As long as the cops are killing unarmed people we don't like, it's all good.  Extra points if they are brown amiright?
 
2013-08-05 05:42:01 PM  
This isn't a hospital police action! It's an insane asylum
 
2013-08-05 05:44:18 PM  

skozlaw: PunGent: They charge 'em with DUI? there ya go.

Yes, they charged a dead man with DUI. WTF is wrong with you?

PunGent: Actually, those reporters may have set themselves up for a serious slander/libel suit, unless the tox screen backs them up. The cops didn't allege weaving, which you'd expect from a DUI suspect.

In other words, not only do you have no citation for your claim of "trace" intoxicants, a claim in direct contradiction to the claim made by the people reporting from closer to the story and with more access to the evidence than you, you actually made up the words you put in quotes?

snocone: Did we maybe check 75 cops' blood for cocaine and MJ?

What would that have to do with anything? Would that make the driver less drunk and/or high if the cops were also on dope?


Has to do with hypocrisy, not that you would understand.
 
2013-08-05 06:10:01 PM  

neongoats: Secondly, only the most loathsome idiot would try and claim that a little coke and weed means you deserve to be shot 30 times. How many rich, white, elites would we need to gun down if that were so?


Hey, it's a start.
 
2013-08-05 06:41:08 PM  

Psycoholic_Slag: JuggleGeek: Drunk, high on coke and pot, with a suspended drivers license, running from the cops when they try to pull you over.

It doesn't sound like the cops handled this well, but for the dead druggies, it's really hard to find much sympathy.

As long as the cops are killing unarmed people we don't like, it's all good.  Extra points if they are brown amiright?


The guy was driving while farked up on alcohol, cocaine, and pot.  His license had already been pulled, which would indicate that he does that kind of thing on a regular basis.  He needs to be taken off the road.  He could have taken the easy way and pulled over, but he chose to drive even faster and stupider than he had already been doing.  That makes him a high risk to anyone else trying to use the road.  "Unarmed" and "driving a car 100 mph while all drugged up" are not the same thing.

As I said before, the cops didn't handle it well, but it's hard to be sympathetic.  It has nothing to do with being brown (but I'm not surprised that you are a racist asshole).  It has to do with driving like a maniac and making the roads unsafe for other people.
 
2013-08-05 06:44:39 PM  

JuggleGeek: Psycoholic_Slag: JuggleGeek: Drunk, high on coke and pot, with a suspended drivers license, running from the cops when they try to pull you over.

It doesn't sound like the cops handled this well, but for the dead druggies, it's really hard to find much sympathy.

As long as the cops are killing unarmed people we don't like, it's all good.  Extra points if they are brown amiright?

The guy was driving while farked up on alcohol, cocaine, and pot.  His license had already been pulled, which would indicate that he does that kind of thing on a regular basis.  He needs to be taken off the road.  He could have taken the easy way and pulled over, but he chose to drive even faster and stupider than he had already been doing.  That makes him a high risk to anyone else trying to use the road.  "Unarmed" and "driving a car 100 mph while all drugged up" are not the same thing.

As I said before, the cops didn't handle it well, but it's hard to be sympathetic.  It has nothing to do with being brown (but I'm not surprised that you are a racist asshole).  It has to do with driving like a maniac and making the roads unsafe for other people.


Unsafe like 58 more police cars in pursuit than necessary? Your choice of words with "didn't handle it well" instead of "handled it poorly" says something.
 
2013-08-05 06:49:29 PM  

browntimmy: Unsafe like 58 more police cars in pursuit than necessary?


And don't forget shooting like madmen.  They didn't handle it well, as I said before.

You can keep pretending that I'm kissing the cops butt, but I'm not, you're just a lying asshole.
 
2013-08-05 06:58:40 PM  
What's the big deal? They chased them, they caught them, they get to shoot them right? That's obviously the rule which explains why five dozen competitors showed up to count coup.
 
2013-08-05 07:12:36 PM  

JuggleGeek: Psycoholic_Slag: JuggleGeek: Drunk, high on coke and pot, with a suspended drivers license, running from the cops when they try to pull you over.

It doesn't sound like the cops handled this well, but for the dead druggies, it's really hard to find much sympathy.

As long as the cops are killing unarmed people we don't like, it's all good.  Extra points if they are brown amiright?

The guy was driving while farked up on alcohol, cocaine, and pot.  His license had already been pulled, which would indicate that he does that kind of thing on a regular basis.  He needs to be taken off the road.  He could have taken the easy way and pulled over, but he chose to drive even faster and stupider than he had already been doing.  That makes him a high risk to anyone else trying to use the road.  "Unarmed" and "driving a car 100 mph while all drugged up" are not the same thing.

As I said before, the cops didn't handle it well, but it's hard to be sympathetic.  It has nothing to do with being brown (but I'm not surprised that you are a racist asshole).  It has to do with driving like a maniac and making the roads unsafe for other people.


So, no sympathy for unarmed drug users who get executed by cops without a trial.
You are a fine piece of work there fellow citizen.  Lets party together, but no driving afterwards.
 
2013-08-05 07:51:18 PM  

JuggleGeek: Drunk, high on coke and pot, with a suspended drivers license, running from the cops when they try to pull you over.

It doesn't sound like the cops handled this well, but for the dead druggies, it's really hard to find much sympathy.


I can find tons of sympathy. There's no death penalty, as far as I know, for being high or having a suspended license, but they were both executed all the same. They were executed because cops figured, "hey, I heard one of them shot at us, so it's open friggin' season on them now", which is why we have the (forgive the term) pig-piling as over a hundred cops were involved in chasing and executing them.

We have lost control. Where's the DoJ on this one? Seattle PD has to be supervised like children because they couldn't resist shooting & beating people - how many other PDs are going to have to be chaperoned because they're full of trigger-happy morons covered by bureaucracies designed to protect them at all costs?
 
2013-08-05 08:05:57 PM  

snocone: Has to do with hypocrisy, not that you would understand.


Or maybe that, whether true or not, has absolutely nothing to do with whether or not the person in the car was driving high and drunk which is what was being discussed when you chose to respond to me.

If you think the cops should be tested that's fine, but it has fark all to do with the discussion you chose to jump into.
 
2013-08-05 08:57:57 PM  

skozlaw: snocone: Has to do with hypocrisy, not that you would understand.

Or maybe that, whether true or not, has absolutely nothing to do with whether or not the person in the car was driving high and drunk which is what was being discussed when you chose to respond to me.

If you think the cops should be tested that's fine, but it has fark all to do with the discussion you chose to jump into.


In many safety sensitive occupations, besides random drug testing, you will get tested for any injury requiring medical attention.  Do you think it would be in our best interest if we asked our police officers to submit to a drug test if they kill someone?
 
2013-08-05 10:59:32 PM  

Psycoholic_Slag: So, no sympathy for unarmed drug users who get executed by cops without a trial.


If they had stopped when the cops flipped on the lights, they would have had a trial.  They were stupid enough to think that they could outrun the cops, and it got them killed.

Pretending, as the fark headline says, that they were an "unarmed innocent couple" is nonsense.  They could have easily hurt someone.  They chose the dickhead way, so they got treated like dickheads.

What do you propose?  Anyone that doesn't want to get arrested can just flip off the cops and drive like a bat out of hell and the cops should just let you go?
 
2013-08-05 11:24:26 PM  

JuggleGeek: What do you propose? Anyone that doesn't want to get arrested can just flip off the cops and drive like a bat out of hell and the cops should just let you go?


Isn't that why we have license plates on our cars and are forced to register them with the state? If it isn't to identify people who commit crimes and then drive away, what are license plates and registration for? Additionally, is the crime of running from the police now a death penalty offense that obviates the need for a trial?
 
2013-08-05 11:32:15 PM  
Got it.  Do what you want, don't stop for the cops, drive like a maniac, fark the world.  Beautiful plan you have there.
 
2013-08-05 11:39:10 PM  

JuggleGeek: Got it.  Do what you want, don't stop for the cops, drive like a maniac, fark the world.  Beautiful plan you have there.


Got it. Let's get 75 cops to fire 137 bullets at every person who commits a minor traffic infraction. Beautiful plan you have there. That would be a much better world than a world in which one person gets away with running a stop sign. I mean, better a hundred innocent men are executed than one guilty man goes free, isn't that how the saying goes?
 
2013-08-05 11:41:00 PM  

JuggleGeek: What do you propose? Anyone that doesn't want to get arrested can just flip off the cops and drive like a bat out of hell and the cops should just let you go?


False dilemma. Believe it or not, there IS a middle ground between "shoot them to death" and "let them go".
 
2013-08-06 01:00:32 AM  

untaken_name: Got it. Let's get 75 cops to fire 137 bullets at every person who commits a minor traffic infraction.


Have I spoken in favor of the shooting?

All I've done is pointed out that the reason these people ended up in this situation is because of their own actions, and it's hard to by sympathetic.  He was driving without a license (probably already lost it due to too many DWI's), he was drunk, on various drugs, and when the cops tried to pull him over, he decided to be an asshole.  The cops should not have handled it the way they did.  That does not make this asshole a sympathetic victim.
 
2013-08-06 01:06:21 AM  

JuggleGeek: untaken_name: Got it. Let's get 75 cops to fire 137 bullets at every person who commits a minor traffic infraction.

Have I spoken in favor of the shooting?

All I've done is pointed out that the reason these people ended up in this situation is because of their own actions, and it's hard to by sympathetic.  He was driving without a license (probably already lost it due to too many DWI's), he was drunk, on various drugs, and when the cops tried to pull him over, he decided to be an asshole.  The cops should not have handled it the way they did.  That does not make this asshole a sympathetic victim.


Well, rather than correct the obvious mistakes you made in describing the situation and attempt to get you to cogitate on whether 60-car chase posses and deadly force are the safest and best responses to traffic infractions, I'll just say have a blissful life, sir. I'm certain that you will.
 
2013-08-06 01:10:42 AM  

untaken_name: Well, rather than correct the obvious mistakes you made in describing the situation and attempt to get you to cogitate on whether 60-car chase posses and deadly force are the safest and best responses to traffic infractions, I'll just say have a blissful life, sir. I'm certain that you will.


I've said multiple times that the cops didn't handle it well.  You, however, are pretending that I've claimed that this was the "sfest and best response".

You're making up BS and then using that BS as an argument against me.  That's called a strawman.  You're doing it on purpose, that makes you a liar.
 
2013-08-06 01:13:27 AM  
I'm often amazed at people on the internet.  You're quoting me when I say "The cops should not have handled it the way they did.", and then talking about "whether 60-car chase posses and deadly force are the safest and best responses to traffic infractions".  I never claimed they are, and you know that.  You actually quoted me, yet you are still making the accusation.
 
2013-08-06 01:23:36 AM  
Based on the fact that he had a suspended license and ran from the police, I pretty much assumed that he was a slimeball.

So since you were being such a jerk, I went looking.

http://www.cleveland.com/metro/index.ssf/2012/12/fleeing_driver_shot _b y_police.html

Russell, who would have turned 44 next Sunday, had a history of theft offenses, violent crime and, on two previous occasions, fleeing police - all since 1997.

He was found guilty of domestic violence in Summit County, had three convictions for receiving stolen property, one in Summit County and two in Cuyahoga. Russell also had four robbery convictions: Ohio law recognizes robbery as any theft offense involving force or threat of force.

One of the stolen-property offenses also carried a felony failure-to-comply charge, in Cuyahoga County in 2008. He also was found guilty of misdemeanor failure to comply in Mentor Municipal Court earlier this year.


Yeah, he sounds like a real sweetheart.
 
2013-08-06 02:34:22 AM  

JuggleGeek: You're making up BS and then using that BS as an argument against me. That's called a strawman. You're doing it on purpose, that makes you a liar.


Sure, buddy. Keep repeating your BS. See if that magically makes it true.

JuggleGeek: All I've done is pointed out that the reason these people ended up in this situation is because of their own actions,


Right, because everyone in the country who blows through a stop sign or drives drunk ends up shot 42 times. So, all you've done is proclaim something which is false over and over. That doesn't make it true.
Stupid people try to get away from police officers often. They usually don't end up shot 42 times. Therefore, even if these people had a reasonable belief that they would be chased, they had no reasonable expectation of being shot for running a stop sign. That wasn't (prior to this case) a typical outcome of driving away from police. So your contention that they are responsible for their own deaths is ridiculous. That's only one thing wrong with your logic. Since you're obviously more interested in pretending that you're correct instead of actually correcting your mistakes, I'll just say good day.
 
2013-08-06 02:35:11 AM  

JuggleGeek: Yeah, he sounds like a real sweetheart.


Guess everyone who's not very nice should be summarily executed. I assume you're standing in line.
 
2013-08-06 06:10:19 AM  
izquotes.com
 
2013-08-06 08:24:57 AM  

skozlaw: PunGent: They charge 'em with DUI? there ya go.

Yes, they charged a dead man with DUI. WTF is wrong with you?


The cops didn't even allege it, after they threw everything but the kitchen sink into the mix.   Logic ftw.

PunGent: Actually, those reporters may have set themselves up for a serious slander/libel suit, unless the tox screen backs them up. The cops didn't allege weaving, which you'd expect from a DUI suspect.

In other words, not only do you have no citation for your claim of "trace" intoxicants, a claim in direct contradiction to the claim made by the people reporting from closer to the story and with more access to the evidence than you, you actually made up the words you put in quotes?


Show ME a link with MORE than "trace"...you're quoting from people who HAVE BEEN CAUGHT LYING ALREADY.

snocone: Did we maybe check 75 cops' blood for cocaine and MJ?

What would that have to do with anything? Would that make the driver less drunk and/or high if the cops were also on dope?


Seriously?  you don't see how impaired witnesses could have...impaired testimony?

Occam's razor...try not to cut yourself with it.
 
2013-08-06 08:28:34 AM  

JuggleGeek: Psycoholic_Slag: So, no sympathy for unarmed drug users who get executed by cops without a trial.

If they had stopped when the cops flipped on the lights, they would have had a trial.  They were stupid enough to think that they could outrun the cops, and it got them killed.


Unless there's been further developments, we don't know they even saw any police lights.  Cop heard a backfire, mistook it for gunfire, unmarked units went after them first, and the cops lied about multiple elements of the "chase".

Hell, at this point, I'm going to need video to believe they even ran the stop sign.
 
2013-08-06 08:31:53 AM  

supayoda: Frederick: Screw you Pamela Engel for a horribly written article.

I cant tell if there was four people shot or two people shot.

"The pair were shot at 137 times while in their car..."
"One suspect, 30-year-old Malissa Williams, was shot 24 times, and the other, 43-year-old Timothy Russell, was shot 23 times."

They were shot at 137 times but only struck the couple 47 times, meaning that 90 of their shots either missed or were fired in warning. I'm confused as to whether the cops should be berated for shooting an unarmed couple or for being such horrible marksmen.


About 30% hits with (presumably) handguns in (presumably) poor lighting in a confused situation isn't actually all that bad...it's not like a clean, orderly, well-lit shooting range.
 
2013-08-06 03:27:01 PM  

PunGent: Afa the 49 rounds in 30 seconds, I'm not really a handgun guy...I don't know how likely that is.


He went through nearly three magazines if it was a Glock (17+1, if I remember correctly).  It's possible.  You aren't aiming when you fire that fast.  You're pointing in the general direction and pulling the trigger as fast as you can.  I've attempted this type of shooting at the range.  After about the third or fourth round you're lucky to hit the paper target outside the circle, let alone get it inside any part of the target region.
 
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