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(Mining)   Haiti finally finds a way to defeat poverty, but multinationals are getting to the country's mineral riches first   (mining.com) divider line 86
    More: Sad, Haiti, NGO, mining laws, street kids, mining companies  
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2413 clicks; posted to Politics » on 03 Aug 2013 at 10:12 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-08-03 10:18:29 PM
Like mineral wealth has been any help in Africa. It goes into wasteful governments and comes with promises to uplift the society that never comes.

The best thing we could do for Haiti is trade with them. But their government is so farked you wouldn't want to do business or extend improvement loans to irrigate mango groves because there's no clear ownership and piss poor property records.

Stop sending them food. Start buying their work product so they can buy food. About the only thing I'd be cool with handing out is vaccinations.
 
2013-08-03 10:25:24 PM
The solution...look to the Chinese methods.  Allow a foreign company to come in and partner with a local company, once the local Haitian company has the tech/know how kick out the foreigners.
 
2013-08-03 10:30:31 PM
I accidentally the whole mineral rights.
 
2013-08-03 10:36:48 PM
I am sure that if valuable minerals are found in Haiti the money will flow down the poor creating a new middle class.

It will create a stable democracy and help Haiti develop in a developing democracy.

/Cause that is how nations with lots of oil work, right?
 
2013-08-03 10:41:19 PM
Government gets royalty payments and there's supposed to be environmental protection clauses. Seems fair enough unless I'm somehow missing the vast amount of Haitian scientists and heavy industry which are capable of mining on their own without the need to bring in foreign companies.
 
2013-08-03 10:42:59 PM

wildcardjack: Like mineral wealth has been any help in Africa. It goes into wasteful governments and comes with promises to uplift the society that never comes.

The best thing we could do for Haiti is trade with them. But their government is so farked you wouldn't want to do business or extend improvement loans to irrigate mango groves because there's no clear ownership and piss poor property records.

Stop sending them food. Start buying their work product so they can buy food. About the only thing I'd be cool with handing out is vaccinations.


thanks to deforestation, Haiti lost the ability to produce enough food to feed its people long before the earthquake. now its much worse. USAID planted millions of trees to try to address the problem, but the locals cut most of them down for fuel.

the US already buys 80% of Haiti's exports, mostly textiles
 
2013-08-03 10:43:14 PM
316mininggoldrush.com
 
2013-08-03 10:45:49 PM

eventhelosers: The solution...look to the Chinese methods.  Allow a foreign company to come in and partner with a local company, once the local Haitian company has the tech/know how kick out the foreigners.




That's been going on since the dawn of civilization.
 
2013-08-03 10:51:30 PM
There's a huge difference between "defeating poverty" and "no longer being one of the poorest countries on earth".

See for example: The U.S., simultaneously the "richest" country in the world, and the home of this:

1.bp.blogspot.com
 
2013-08-03 10:56:07 PM

dumbobruni: the US already buys 80% of Haiti's exports, mostly textiles


Now, if we could get more textiles from Haiti instead of China. And maybe find other products they could produce or middleman. Trade has made better societies than rent states.

I like to see the labels on my clothes coming from hellholes where the sweatshop really represents an improvement. I'm a bit torn on Bangladesh, they should have risen up a bit but even the sweatshops are crap. Most of the time the sweatshop represents a vast improvement over the rural life of the peasant, but Bangladesh is sort of crap from top to bottom.
 
2013-08-03 10:57:39 PM
there is a great oil company called Tullow Oil, based in London and operates in sub-saharan Africa. when the firm starts drilling in a country, it tries to source as much from the country as possible in the supply chain and targets 80% local employment for operations.

if the local workforce doesn't have the skills, the firm trains them. if the local companies have the skill but lack the capital, Tullow will lend them money far below the market rate to help them scale up.

Tullow forces its international suppliers to do the same.

imagine if all energy and mining companies acted this way.
 
2013-08-03 11:06:48 PM
The Haitians took this long to discover Mining?

i.imgur.com
 
2013-08-03 11:13:15 PM

Sock Ruh Tease: The Haitians took this long to discover Mining?

[i.imgur.com image 529x539]


Well, they had a bad starting location, and were researching other technologies first, so it took a while.
 
2013-08-03 11:15:32 PM

Ramien: and were researching other technologies first


Starvation doesn't usually have to be researched.
 
2013-08-03 11:21:40 PM

Ramien: Sock Ruh Tease: The Haitians took this long to discover Mining?

[i.imgur.com image 529x539]

Well, they had a bad starting location, and were researching other technologies first, so it took a while.


And they're playing on Emperor difficulty, so we've all just enjoyed an unfair research boost this entire time.
 
2013-08-03 11:25:39 PM
If the Hatians are really, really lucky, the miners will poison them all before they leave, and end their misery.
 
2013-08-03 11:27:58 PM
The problem with Haiti is that it's full of Haitians.
 
2013-08-03 11:45:31 PM
How about France hand over the 150 million francs with intrest it forced Hati to pay for its liberty and we reinstate  Jean Bertrand Aristide as their rightful president after the US put him on a plane and flew him to Africa? Or we could just stop pretending we give a shiat.

//hates our history
 
2013-08-03 11:53:46 PM
This happened in New Guinea. It is the richest place in the world in terms of mineral wealth, but pretty much zero of it goes to actual New Guineans.
 
2013-08-03 11:57:15 PM

DoomPaul: Government gets royalty payments and there's supposed to be environmental protection clauses. Seems fair enough unless I'm somehow missing the vast amount of Haitian scientists and heavy industry which are capable of mining on their own without the need to bring in foreign companies.


Environmental protection clauses are a joke. As are royalty payments. A small portion of the wealth gets into the hands of a few corrupt officials, the environment gets trashed, and the people end up with nothing.
 
2013-08-04 12:00:46 AM

wildcardjack: dumbobruni: the US already buys 80% of Haiti's exports, mostly textiles

Now, if we could get more textiles from Haiti instead of China. And maybe find other products they could produce or middleman. Trade has made better societies than rent states.

I like to see the labels on my clothes coming from hellholes where the sweatshop really represents an improvement. I'm a bit torn on Bangladesh, they should have risen up a bit but even the sweatshops are crap. Most of the time the sweatshop represents a vast improvement over the rural life of the peasant, but Bangladesh is sort of crap from top to bottom.


We likely buy as much as Haiti can produce at the moment.  China has a considerable advantage in infrastructure and population to pump things out that Haiti lacks.
 
2013-08-04 12:05:36 AM
So, when is America going to make the mining companies responsible for what they have done to our country?

www.filtersfast.com

Oh wait, the government will just subsidize them by buying the cities out.  Never mind.
 
2013-08-04 12:12:05 AM
You'd be better off mining an asteroid.
 
2013-08-04 12:13:31 AM

dookdookdook: There's a huge difference between "defeating poverty" and "no longer being one of the poorest countries on earth".

See for example: The U.S., simultaneously the "richest" country in the world, and the home of this:

[1.bp.blogspot.com image 400x289]


Thank you. The DOW at 14,000 doesn't do shiat for the poor.
 
2013-08-04 12:19:38 AM
www.economichitman.com
 
2013-08-04 12:27:02 AM
"Sad"? How about "Obvious".


Apik0r0s: [www.economichitman.com image 304x474]


Also this:

ecx.images-amazon.com
 
2013-08-04 12:50:01 AM
They need an Alaska style fund.

/never gonna get it
//envouge
 
2013-08-04 01:00:14 AM

ecmoRandomNumbers: dookdookdook: There's a huge difference between "defeating poverty" and "no longer being one of the poorest countries on earth".

See for example: The U.S., simultaneously the "richest" country in the world, and the home of this:

[1.bp.blogspot.com image 400x289]

Thank you. The DOW at 14,000 doesn't do shiat for the poor.


A rising tide lifts all boats. The wealth will trickle down.
 
2013-08-04 01:13:15 AM
There is absolutely no reason Haiti has to be as poor as it is, certainly not after the waste of money that was the earthquake relief but actually tackling tough problems isn't something we do anymore and worse nobody really cares anyway. I need a drink.
 
2013-08-04 01:15:49 AM

fusillade762: "Sad"? How about "Obvious".


Apik0r0s: [www.economichitman.com image 304x474]

Also this:

[ecx.images-amazon.com image 310x500]


That was an awesome read.
 
2013-08-04 01:17:29 AM

dookdookdook: There's a huge difference between "defeating poverty" and "no longer being one of the poorest countries on earth".

See for example: The U.S., simultaneously the "richest" country in the world, and the home of this:

[1.bp.blogspot.com image 400x289]


To be fair I think most countries have to deal with that.
 
2013-08-04 01:19:31 AM

Magruda: How about France hand over the 150 million francs with intrest it forced Hati to pay for its liberty and we reinstate  Jean Bertrand Aristide as their rightful president after the US put him on a plane and flew him to Africa? Or we could just stop pretending we give a shiat.

//hates our history


Aristide may have started out as a good man but he turned into a thief, do you think the 800 million dollars that he is worth came to him legally?
 
2013-08-04 01:31:53 AM
an island nation that practically gave away its mineral rights? that sounds famaliar....

ds-lands.com
 
2013-08-04 01:35:48 AM

Sock Ruh Tease: The Haitians took this long to discover Mining?

[i.imgur.com image 529x539]


I read that in Leonard Nimoy's voice.

/titty sprinkles
 
2013-08-04 01:40:28 AM

bbfreak: There is absolutely no reason Haiti has to be as poor as it is, certainly not after the waste of money that was the earthquake relief but actually tackling tough problems isn't something we do anymore and worse nobody really cares anyway. I need a drink.


I seem to recall some aid group was trying to build houses for people but the local government insisted they all have flush toilets even though there's no waste water treatment system. It's farked up all around.
 
2013-08-04 01:41:30 AM

Penman: dookdookdook: There's a huge difference between "defeating poverty" and "no longer being one of the poorest countries on earth".

See for example: The U.S., simultaneously the "richest" country in the world, and the home of this:

[1.bp.blogspot.com image 400x289]

To be fair I think most countries have to deal with that.


No doubt, but the United States is a country where being on welfare is synonymous with being lazy scum in America. Which is why you have families who are actually ashamed to be on welfare, despite the fact that opportunities to get out of poverty and upward mobility do not exist for a great many Americans. Not to mention despite being the richest country in the world, we rank lower than other rich nations when it comes to eduction, childhood poverty, and honestly I'm not sure what we exceed at compared to everyone else but having more guns/spending more on our military more than anyone else.
 
2013-08-04 01:44:32 AM

Kanemano: Magruda: How about France hand over the 150 million francs with intrest it forced Hati to pay for its liberty and we reinstate  Jean Bertrand Aristide as their rightful president after the US put him on a plane and flew him to Africa? Or we could just stop pretending we give a shiat.

//hates our history

Aristide may have started out as a good man but he turned into a thief, do you think the 800 million dollars that he is worth came to him legally?


Not that it would make a difference that we over threw him in a coup, i'm SO sure you have some evidence to back up your character assassination.
 
2013-08-04 01:47:31 AM

eventhelosers: The solution...look to the Chinese methods.  Allow a foreign company to come in and partner with a local company, once the local Haitian company has the tech/know how kick out the foreigners.


If that happens in China, it is usually the fault of the foreign company entering into China not sufficiently prepared.
 
2013-08-04 02:19:23 AM

bbfreak: Penman: dookdookdook: There's a huge difference between "defeating poverty" and "no longer being one of the poorest countries on earth".

See for example: The U.S., simultaneously the "richest" country in the world, and the home of this:

[1.bp.blogspot.com image 400x289]

To be fair I think most countries have to deal with that.

No doubt, but the United States is a country where being on welfare is synonymous with being lazy scum in America. Which is why you have families who are actually ashamed to be on welfare, despite the fact that opportunities to get out of poverty and upward mobility do not exist for a great many Americans. Not to mention despite being the richest country in the world, we rank lower than other rich nations when it comes to eduction, childhood poverty, and honestly I'm not sure what we exceed at compared to everyone else but having more guns/spending more on our military more than anyone else.


We also have the dubious distinction of having more people in prison than anywhere else in the world.
 
2013-08-04 02:19:51 AM
The important question is: how do we keep these precious, precious minerals to ourselves and out of the hands of the Chinese?
 
2013-08-04 02:23:17 AM

fusillade762: bbfreak: Penman: dookdookdook: There's a huge difference between "defeating poverty" and "no longer being one of the poorest countries on earth".

See for example: The U.S., simultaneously the "richest" country in the world, and the home of this:

[1.bp.blogspot.com image 400x289]

To be fair I think most countries have to deal with that.

No doubt, but the United States is a country where being on welfare is synonymous with being lazy scum in America. Which is why you have families who are actually ashamed to be on welfare, despite the fact that opportunities to get out of poverty and upward mobility do not exist for a great many Americans. Not to mention despite being the richest country in the world, we rank lower than other rich nations when it comes to eduction, childhood poverty, and honestly I'm not sure what we exceed at compared to everyone else but having more guns/spending more on our military more than anyone else.

We also have the dubious distinction of having more people in prison than anywhere else in the world.


Yup, USA USA USA!
 
xcv
2013-08-04 02:40:43 AM

wildcardjack: dumbobruni: the US already buys 80% of Haiti's exports, mostly textiles

Now, if we could get more textiles from Haiti instead of China. And maybe find other products they could produce or middleman. Trade has made better societies than rent states.

I like to see the labels on my clothes coming from hellholes where the sweatshop really represents an improvement. I'm a bit torn on Bangladesh, they should have risen up a bit but even the sweatshops are crap. Most of the time the sweatshop represents a vast improvement over the rural life of the peasant, but Bangladesh is sort of crap from top to bottom.


I dont see that happening, saw an article that interviewed some of Haiti's .1% elites.

An extended Lebanese family of industrialists that has been in Haiti for 3 generations owns several of those textile factories that benefit from favorable US import tax breaks.

The family patriarch outright states that Haitian employees are far more problematic than Asian workers in matters of productivity and any smart manufacturing investor would put their money in Asia, an option they thoroughly explored.

The family only stays for now because of the US policies and aid to Haiti that goes to ther industry and close, personal connections to government officials that give them a unique advantage.
 
2013-08-04 02:46:14 AM
Haitians sold their souls, and that of all their descendants, to satan to escape france's evil clutches.


Pat Robertson told me so.
 
2013-08-04 02:59:34 AM

fusillade762: We also have the dubious distinction of having more people in prison than anywhere else in the world.


You should revise this statement before you lose on a technicality.
 
2013-08-04 03:03:49 AM
Oh. Like Alaska.
 
2013-08-04 03:03:50 AM

Smackledorfer: Haitians sold their souls, and that of all their descendants, to satan to escape france's evil clutches.


Pat Robertson told me so.


I'm glad that Pat Robertson recognizes the continuing horror of colonialism.
 
2013-08-04 03:41:40 AM

Magruda: Kanemano: Magruda: How about France hand over the 150 million francs with intrest it forced Hati to pay for its liberty and we reinstate  Jean Bertrand Aristide as their rightful president after the US put him on a plane and flew him to Africa? Or we could just stop pretending we give a shiat.

//hates our history

Aristide may have started out as a good man but he turned into a thief, do you think the 800 million dollars that he is worth came to him legally?

Not that it would make a difference that we over threw him in a coup, i'm SO sure you have some evidence to back up your character assassination.


http://newsgroups.derkeiler.com/Archive/Soc/soc.culture.haiti/2005-1 1/ msg00108.html

http://jamaica-gleaner.com/gleaner/20040404/focus/focus5.html

http://www.wehaitians.com/the%20demagoguery%20must%20stop.html

Do you need more?
 
2013-08-04 03:48:36 AM
 
2013-08-04 04:12:55 AM
static.globalissues.org

Yeah, the USA spends almost as much as the rest of the world combined.
 
2013-08-04 04:17:11 AM

johnphantom: [static.globalissues.org image 553x585]

Yeah, the USA spends almost as much as the rest of the world combined.


I'd heard that we're currently spending more per year on the military now, than we did during WW2 or Vietnam, even when adjusted for inflation.
 
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