Jim_Tressel's_O-Face: fatassbastard: If you saved a mere $50/month ($25/paycheck) over those 10 years and you invested it in the S&P 500 via an index fund or ETF, you would now have $8,883.78:http://www.bankrate.com/calculators/savings/simple-savings-calculato r. aspxSo for $6000 ($50 * 120), I get a whopping return of $2883.78? I'M RICH! I'M MITT ROMNEY!
mod3072: here to help: You think they are the same? On some things sure. They both obey money masters. They both think of themselves before the people. But they are so different and so many OTHER ways that any thinking person with an ounce of human compassion don't even see the right wing as a viable alternative.I don't think we are as far apart on this as it may seem. You just seem more willing to throw up your hands and support a party that you know does not have your best interests at heart. As long as both sides continue to support the major parties out of fear of the other side, nothing will ever change. I'm not saying that it's easy, or that there is a quick, simple solution. I'm just saying that voting for one side because you are terrified of the other is only going to perpetuate the problem. That's how the entrenched parties stay entrenched. Republicans convince their base that if they don't vote for them, the scary gays are going to take over and socialize our Muslim terrorist abortions. Or something. I don't know, it's mostly buzzwords. You adequately explained yourself how the Democrats keep the base voting for them. We need a viable third party and some comprehensive campaign finance reform. Easy to say and hard to do, I realize that. But if enough people get disenfranchised by the 2 party system, anything is possible. Not likely, but possible.Capicheka? Now run along to your clever boys club meeting. Don't want to keep them waiting.Typical. Treat any differing point of view as merit-less and childish. I've had fun arguing with you all, but it's finally dried up outside and my lawn isn't going to mow itself. Try not to fall off of your high horse and hurt yourself while I'm gone. I'll pop in later to catch up on the insults hurled my way, so feel free to let them fly.
mod3072: WhyteRaven74: mod3072: Keep cheerleading for the Dems instead of having a serious conversation about true political reformthing is, the state of the economy and jobs is at the end of the day the doing of the private sector. And for many blaming the private sector for anything is a no go.That's partially true, but public policy has a HUGE impact on the private sector. We can't force companies to create more jobs, but can craft, for example, tax and trade policies that don't encourage (or, ideally, that actively DIScourage) shipping good jobs overseas.
tinfoil-hat maggie: Meh, typo's be damned I started drinking early and well I'm sure I'll make my fair share : )
Goimir: ReapTheChaos: "These jobs, which account for 33% of all private sector jobs, pay an average of $15.80 per hour."$15.80 an hour is a pretty decent wage in most places. You wont live like a king, but you'll manage. The problem is people are spoiled. They think they need to drive a new car, have the best furnishings in their house, $80 a month cable Tv on their 50" flat screens, $200 cell phones with a $75 monthly plan and a slew of other crap that you can live without.Hell, $15.80 an hour is more than I'm making.Let's make a budget here:$15.80 an hour is $2,717.60 gross for a month at 40 hours a weekEquates to a take home of approximately $2,038.20Now let's add in some expenses:Rent: $750Household: $433 ($100/wk for food, household, toiletries)Fuel: $100Auto Insurance: $100Health Insurance: $400Utilities: $100That puts us at $1,883Now you want to have the ability to actually have a life, OKPhone+Internet: $75 ;yes, you could get by without internet and just having a phone, but you wouldn't be here then now would youLunch out once a week or going to the bar twice a month or going to see a ball game once a month or going to the symphony every other month: $50Now we're up to $2,008, or $30 dollars left over to maintain the car and buy clothing and such.Where can we pare this down. Let's see, we could ditch the car if we lived in a more urban area. So we can get rid of fuel and car insurance, but our rent would go up to $950, and we'd need to spend $75/mo on a transit pass. That's a losing proposition.We can move to a rural area, drop rent to $500/mo, but pay another $100/mo in fuel, $50 a month in utilities (those cheap places in rural areas are always poorly insulated and have crap appliances). That does add a bit, but you're sacrificing 2 hrs a day, or 10 hours a week, or 43 hours a month of your life in commuting. That's more than a week's worth of work for saving that money. If you need to you can do it and work out on the plu ...
kiyote: College may not be the best choice for everyone, but vocational training and certificates can take people far away from these low-end jobs. I bussed tables for 4 years in my early twenties for $4.25 an hour. Only after I put myself through a two year program did my career move anywhere.
ReapTheChaos: Like I said in my post I make less than that and my budget is no where near what you're suggesting and I own my own home. I realize cost of living differs from place to place but if you put some effort into it you can live comfortably on $32,000 a year.
hardinparamedic: ReapTheChaos: Like I said in my post I make less than that and my budget is no where near what you're suggesting and I own my own home. I realize cost of living differs from place to place but if you put some effort into it you can live comfortably on $32,000 a year.Comfortably is subjective. The only way you can live "comfortably" is to have no debt, and be room mates with someone who can split costs. And not incur any emergency costs, like replacing an AC unit.
mike_the_engineer: [i.imgur.com image 400x600]If flipping burgers is the only job skill you have, that's your own fault.
Jim_Tressel's_O-Face: So for $6000 ($50 * 120), I get a whopping return of $2883.78? I'M RICH! I'M MITT ROMNEY!
Madbassist1: Also, LOL at the 6-8000 over 10 YEARS.
N-deutetrei: Yeah and that's assuming you've never had to dip in to that savings for a big insurance co-payment or a broken A/C or your car breaking down...
tinfoil-hat maggie: here to help: mod3072: Wow, good job. You saw right through my clever ruse to shill for the Republican party by bashing the Republican party. I would have gotten away with it too, if it weren't for you meddling kids!Okay... I'll ignore what I perceived as an endorsement for the pubs. So aside from that you went to great lengths to tell us all how much we slobber over dem cock. The Farkers in general are totally brainwashed by the dems to march in lockstep and we are nothing but subserviant sheeple to the 0bamster.The thing is... I'm here pretty much every day... even if I'm not posting. Even the libbiest libs on here don't do that. They have plenty of complaints and poor opinions about the current administration. These guys may be derp farmers but they aren't actually dumb. So even ignoring the fact it did indeed appear you were endorsing the republican party you were still using a common right wing tactic of making anyone who even THINKS of voting democratic as mindless sheep.It simply is not true. The reality is most are not happy with that party but the other guys are indeed WAY worse. Like freaking nutsoid, sell us all into slavery, launch large scale global conflicts next WEEK kind of worse.You think they are the same? On some things sure. They both obey money masters. They both think of themselves before the people. But they are so different and so many OTHER ways that any thinking person with an ounce of human compassion don't even see the right wing as a viable alternative.It is insulting to say those people are blind and brainwashed. They just have no other choice.Capicheka? Now run along to your clever boys club meeting. Don't want to keep them waiting.So very true, and well said.Also I seriously doubt most people that vote for Dems do so blindly. Does this country need political reform sure, but who's gonna do it? I'd like to see a true liberal party emerge but well that isn't happening anytime soon./Saying both side are bad has been a sorta code to try and get people to vote Republican for a long time.
Amos Quito: Most of those that died did so because they couldn't compete with foreign dumping.
WhyteRaven74: Amos Quito: Most of those that died did so because they couldn't compete with foreign dumping.When you produce cloth on 60 year old machines and someone starts making it on new machines, it doesn't matter where they are, you're doomed unless you get new equipment.When you're unwilling to give people what they want, it doesn't matter where a competitor is, they're going to eat your lunch. When you're unwilling to cut your profit margin while a competitor gladly goes with a lower one and makes what people want, you're not long for this world.
fatassbastard: You can keep coming up with excuses to not save, and never have anything, and no bulwark whatsoever against the proverbial "rainy day", or you can make small sacrifices and begin to take control of your personal finanaces
hardinparamedic: Amos Quito: Just carry on under the delusion that your government is ultimately benevolent, there is a meaningful difference between the "Left" and the "Right", and that things will just keep getting better and better if we will ONLY allow those that govern unlimited power.So far so good, right?Nice reducto ad absurdum. I'm speaking specifically of you and YOUR agitprop there, Napoleon.
tinfoil-hat maggie: I'm guessing you're still in college, pretty young and really don't remember all the things that have happened and why over the years.
LawrencePerson: If America continues to advance toward a European-sized, crony-capitalist, cradle-to-grave welfare state, expect European levels of bankruptcy, unemployment, and demographic decline.The future of America will look more and more like the present of Detroit and Greece.
Ontos: How to not be a burger flipper:Step one: Put down the bong, moron.Step two: Stop playing video games 85% of your waking lifeStep three: Actually wear a clean, pressed shirt to a job interview and stop with the farking texting during the interview.Step four: Avoid neck tattoosThat should get you most of the way there. You're on your own for the rest of it.
mod3072: tinfoil-hat maggie: I'm guessing you're still in college, pretty young and really don't remember all the things that have happened and why over the years.I wish! Unfortunately, you're off by more than a decade. I remember plenty that has happened over the years and why. The biggest lesson I've learned is that if there is a bill or policy that isn't some meaningless piece of populist fluffery and it has the support of both parties, you best grab your ankles and reach for the lube because you're about to get farked.
edmo: Soon we'll have the largest, most educated, well-armed class of poor people in the world.
Sergeant Grumbles: $6000 in 10 years is less than useless. That could be wiped out by one illness, one broken down car, one bought of unemployment, one of nearly any of the pitfalls of being poor.
SuperNinjaToad: mod3072: WhyteRaven74: mod3072: Keep cheerleading for the Dems instead of having a serious conversation about true political reformthing is, the state of the economy and jobs is at the end of the day the doing of the private sector. And for many blaming the private sector for anything is a no go.That's partially true, but public policy has a HUGE impact on the private sector. We can't force companies to create more jobs, but can craft, for example, tax and trade policies that don't encourage (or, ideally, that actively DIScourage) shipping good jobs overseas.what's your definition of a 'good job'? making cheap toys and other doohickeys? companies only care about 1 thing and 1 thing only... and that is their profit margin. If you pass policies that are too restrictive and potentially constricting to their bottom line, then they'll just pack up and move somewhere else recreating the very problem you want to avoid.Or do you prefer to strongarm them into staying? then you've just created an authoritarian government that is antithesis to what everything America is all about.
Frederick: edmo: Soon we'll have the largest, most educated, well-armed class of poor people in the world.haha, not bloody likely. Our poor still dont compare with the poor of the rest of the world. And our education is rapidly falling behind the rest of the world. I'll give you "well armed".
fatassbastard: Again, your choice: make excuses and have nothing, or make small sacrifices and take more control of your own life.
mike_the_engineer: If flipping burgers is the only job skill you have, that's your own fault.
Madbassist1: fatassbastard: Anyone can invest in the stock market successfully. Yes, ANYONE.The rich and established have the edge, though. Its very well documented.Also, LOL at the 6-8000 over 10 YEARS.
BullBearMS: MaudlinMutantMollusk: vpb: BunkyBrewman: We've been well aware that our entire economy is shifting to service based for at least a few decades now.Yes, since we decided to shift it in that direction in the 80's.As the manufacturing jobs were being moved overseas, coincidentally/I always wondered how a country can have a gross national product once they've stopped actually producing anythingTo be fair, quite a lot of them just moved across the border to Mexico.The destruction of America's manufacturing jobs was hardly accidental and it was completely bipartisan.Bush Senior began negotiation of the first of the free trade agreements that allowed the rich to move America's manufacturing jobs out of the United States without facing any sort of financial penalty when the finished goods were brought back inside the US for sale.Clinton finished the negotiations and fought to have the treaty ratified as one of his very first actions in office. He blew a huge amount of political capital to get it past his own party due to huge union opposition.Bought off representatives of both parties repeatedly promised that these treaties would mean more manufacturing jobs for Americans.Clinton while signing the NAFTA bill stated: "...NAFTA means jobs. American jobs, and good-paying American jobs. If I didn't believe that, I wouldn't support this agreement."They lied.
seadoo2006: Either there will be a return to focus on the working class/poor/middle class...or there will be revolt.
here to help: So all the people voting Democrat to avoid become a third world theocracy should just stop voting until something better comes along? I don't think you've thought your cunning plan all the way through.
WhyteRaven74: "What good is industry if it be so unskillfully managed as not to return a living to everyone concerned? No question is more important than that of wages - most of the people of the country live on wages. The scale of their living - the rate of their wages - determines the prosperity of the country.""If we can distribute high wages, then that money is going to be spent and it will serve to make storekeepers and distributors and manufacturers and workers in other lines more prosperous and their prosperity will be reflected in our sales. Country-wide high wages spell country-wide prosperity, provided, however, the higher wages are paid for higher production."Quotes from noted pinko commie socialist Henry Ford.
dickfreckle: Those of you who live in cities now gentrifying, take a look around. What were once foundries are now condo buildings (I used to live in one). Most major cities have a something like a "warehouse district" that's now upscale eateries and, once again, condos. Those reasonably paying jobs didn't move to the suburbs. They just up and went.
GORDON: agsfark: choo: Thanks, GOPAin't that the truth. How could they not find a candidate to beat the current Moron inChief?The media wont let them win. I knew 20 things about Sarah Palin's life, husband, kids, grandkids, the grandkids who were her actual kids, husband's job, husband's previous job, who her kids were dating, her wardrobe budget for the primaries, and part of her DNA and likelihood of trisomy occurring during a pregnancy. None of that information was shared in a positive light. She wasn't even running for president.COMMUNITY ORGANIZER (a made-up term) was given more credence than someone who was an actual chief executive of a state. It was said Obama had more experience.On the other hand, I didn't even know if Biden had kids on election day. All I know about him to this day is that he gaffe's about as much as Bush did but in a more adorable way, and The Onion likes him and keeps making endearing "Oh look he is washing his Trans Am on the White House lawn" jokes.The baby of George Washington and Thomas Jefferson could run today, because he came back in time from a cloning vat, and he could claim he had perfect knowledge of the next 200 years of world history, and knew exactly what, and when, to do, and if they are on the Republican ticket they couldn't win. The democrat candidate would just laugh and kill and eat an infant on live TV during primetime on all the networks and basic cable and still get 52% of the vote. The media has done their jobs well.
WhyteRaven74: funny how it's always up to the income earners to scratch by with a little less, and never up to those who pay the incomes to actually start paying decent incomes again. After all they're perfect, nothing they do is ever wrong, right?
broadsword: Everytime I hear someone parroting about the stock market I remember a time where everyone believed Enron was rock solid.
Goimir: You own your own home, and you make $32,000 a year. This leads me to a few assumptions:
fatassbastard: Let's take the $15.80/hr example Save 5% of your annual salary at 7.25% annual return (preferably in an IRA or 401(k) so you can't spend it before retirement) and in 30 years you'll have ~$175,000. Is that "useless" too?
MBrady: Majick Thise: Nabb1: I just hope this doesn't reflect poorly on Obama.I blame Bush.why wouldn't you. all the liberals on here certainly do. you know, he's been out of office almost six years now
tinfoil-hat maggie: except he really was an ass when he tried to take break his company from investors.
WhyteRaven74: fatassbastard: Again, your choice: make excuses and have nothing, or make small sacrifices and take more control of your own life.funny how it's always up to the income earners to scratch by with a little less, and never up to those who pay the incomes to actually start paying decent incomes again. After all they're perfect, nothing they do is ever wrong, right?
zepillin: pretty much
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