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(Yahoo)   Failure is an option, America. We have become a nation of hamburger flippers   (finance.yahoo.com) divider line 299
    More: Fail, Dan Alpert, Economic sector, losers  
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12749 clicks; posted to Main » on 03 Aug 2013 at 2:53 PM (36 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-08-03 03:51:29 PM

Loucifer: Until we have self-flipping burgers, I'm okay with this.


static3.businessinsider.com
 
2013-08-03 03:51:39 PM

seadoo2006: [fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net image 452x433]


That's the biggest crock of shiat I've ever read in my life.
 
2013-08-03 03:53:34 PM

vpb: jim32rr: Lived in Germany for a bit after exiting the Army, I found it interesting that in Germany, 'management and unions worked closely together in the interests of the common good. Indeed, by law all major German firms are required to set up Works Councils, where the bosses and the unions must work together 'in a spirit of mutual trust'.


Yes, and they still have a manufacturing based economy while we outsourced ours.


The ran the mid-easterners out in the 40s. Consequently, they get a country of Germans putting Germany first.
 
2013-08-03 03:56:32 PM
Hey, let's all go mock the ME generation for still living in their parents' houses! LOSERS! HA HA! And those poor people! Why don't you PULL YOURSELF UP BY YOUR BOOTSTRAPS!

SOCALISM IS EVIL! CAPITALISM IS HOLY! HAIL CAPITALISM!
 
2013-08-03 04:00:07 PM

vpb: jim32rr: Lived in Germany for a bit after exiting the Army, I found it interesting that in Germany, 'management and unions worked closely together in the interests of the common good. Indeed, by law all major German firms are required to set up Works Councils, where the bosses and the unions must work together 'in a spirit of mutual trust'.


Yes, and they still have a manufacturing based economy while we outsourced ours.




Manufacturing, alone, would be the 10th largest economy in the world.

We are good at automating. The best in the world.

300 million.
 
2013-08-03 04:01:07 PM

sigdiamond2000: "The world needs ditch diggers. Not everyone is a special snowflake."

"I'm a ditch digger. "

"LOL you f*ckin loser!"


That's pretty much it IMO. Not everyone is capable of becoming doctors and lawyers, nor would we need that many. At the same time, we've been taught to think that any kind of physical labor or trade is menial and undesirable, that you should avoid those jobs at all costs.
 
2013-08-03 04:01:53 PM
In South Florida now:
Skilled Trim Carpenter: $30.00 hr. + Benefits.
Heavy Equipment Operator: $35.00 hr. + Benefits.
Journeyman Electrician $35.00 hr. + Benefits
Project Superintendent $40.00 hr + Benefits
and so on........

Cost Of Living: Less than New York, more than Arkansas.

5-10 years paid training and experience.

You can still make a living with a little more effort than 'Supersizing'.
 
2013-08-03 04:02:45 PM
vpb
(favorite: Blamed "right wing conspiracy " for Family Research Council shooting after shooter was identified as left wing gay activist)


>>>> BunkyBrewman: We've been well aware that our entire economy is shifting
>>>> to service based for at least a few decades now.

Yes, since we decided to shift it in that direction in the 80's.

Coming off the carter malaise, under Reagan...
*Income was up .
*Minority business ownership was up.
*Minority wages (and buying power) skyrocketed.
*Unemployment was down.
*Industrial Production was up (between 28% and 30%)
*Real GDP was up 35% - 40%)
*Tax revenues were up (around 28%)
*An economic boom lasting 92+ months.
*The American economy grew by about one-third in real inflation-adjusted terms. This was the equivalent of adding the entire economy of East and West Germany or two-thirds of Japan's economy to the U.S. economy


Now, let us for the sake of argument accept the left's assertion that the US Economy bombed because of Bush II. What's zero done to fix it? By almost every measurable standard we are worse now than when he took office.


/// Did not vote for bush.
/// Am not a republican.
 
2013-08-03 04:02:59 PM

ReapTheChaos: seadoo2006: [fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net image 452x433]

That's the biggest crock of shiat I've ever read in my life.


It's a bit extreme but society should be able to handle a 10% unemployment rate without sh*tting it's diapers... even if those people CHOOSE to be unemployed. Most people want to work and do stuff. Some don't. Why waste your energy getting pissy about it? Give them enough to live without having to become criminals and you'll likely never even know they're there.
 
2013-08-03 04:04:01 PM

LordJiro: So there are enough poor and desperate people. The GOP just needs to get those pesky minimum wage and workplace safety laws repealed, and corporations can FINALLY bring jobs back from China!


Meh.  The same people who whine about jobs in China are okay with illegal immigrants taking jobs and using services in the US.
 
2013-08-03 04:04:38 PM
$16/hr? I guess I'm totally out of touch but I didn't think that figure is that bad! Unless you live in Manhattan or some high price city $16 is not exactly poverty level!

I didn't make that much until 25.
 
2013-08-03 04:05:10 PM

Whatchoo Talkinbout: In South Florida now:
Skilled Trim Carpenter: $30.00 hr. + Benefits.
Heavy Equipment Operator: $35.00 hr. + Benefits.
Journeyman Electrician $35.00 hr. + Benefits
Project Superintendent $40.00 hr + Benefits
and so on........

Cost Of Living: Less than New York, more than Arkansas.

5-10 years paid training and experience.

You can still make a living with a little more effort than 'Supersizing'.


You should probably just give up now...

i.imgur.com
 
2013-08-03 04:05:14 PM
i1280.photobucket.com
I know how much you guys like Republicans, so I'll just leave this here.
 
2013-08-03 04:06:00 PM

jruland: hiring in retail means there's been an increase in consumption.


working part time at walmart
 
2013-08-03 04:06:05 PM

miniflea: You know the science fiction trope that technology will reach a level where physical labor is all but eliminated and that society will become a sort of utopia where no one wants for anything and all are free to pursue the arts or some such?  I really think that the more likely scenario is that a few oligarchs will be super wealthy while the rest of us are living in crushing poverty.


There will still be a small middle class of engineers/technicians, and police/soldiers to keep the Morlocks at bay.  But yeah, they'll be vassals of the Eloi, and constantly threatened with being cast out of Paradise to face the teeming hordes that hate them as much as their masters.
 
2013-08-03 04:06:20 PM
Brad Hamilton: Arnold, do you want to work at All-American Burger?
Arnold: Yeah, well, um...
Brad Hamilton: I can probably get you in there. Just let me talk to Dennis Taylor.
 
2013-08-03 04:08:09 PM
The problem is that housing has become incredibly expensive all across the country. Wages have been stagnant for a couple of decades, but housing costs have gone up something like 70%.

I live in Iowa, which has some of the cheapest housing in the country. 10 years ago, I was renting a decent 2 bedroom apartment for $465/month. That *exact same apartment* now rents for $725/month.  But wages havent' increased
 
2013-08-03 04:09:01 PM

maramos:


I live in NYC and make $16 an hour, I'm nowhere near starving.


Being a fatty is still unhealthy
 
2013-08-03 04:09:09 PM

LawrencePerson: If America continues to advance toward a European-sized, crony-capitalist, cradle-to-grave welfare state, expect European levels of bankruptcy, unemployment, and demographic decline.


Except for the fact that in most parts of Europe the welfare state works pretty well.
 
2013-08-03 04:09:46 PM

vpb: jim32rr: Lived in Germany for a bit after exiting the Army, I found it interesting that in Germany, 'management and unions worked closely together in the interests of the common good. Indeed, by law all major German firms are required to set up Works Councils, where the bosses and the unions must work together 'in a spirit of mutual trust'.


Yes, and they still have a manufacturing based economy while we outsourced ours.


wtf are you talking about?
As of the data from 2010, the US was the number one manufacturer:
1.7T vs. China at 1.3T.

you may want to stop listening to Ed Schultz and Madow and actually try to understand what reality is.
 
2013-08-03 04:10:18 PM

jim32rr: Lived in Germany for a bit after exiting the Army, I found it interesting that in Germany, 'management and unions worked closely together in the interests of the common good. Indeed, by law all major German firms are required to set up Works Councils, where the bosses and the unions must work together 'in a spirit of mutual trust'.


///words from a BBC story


No they do not have to set up Works Councils. The only time a company is required to do so is if a set number (I think it is either 2 or 3) request a vote on it. if a majority of the employees vote for it, then the company must support it.
 
2013-08-03 04:13:17 PM
I think the time is finally right for Kodos to run on his formerly unpopular "Abortions for all!" platform!  Kodos 2016!!!!
 
2013-08-03 04:14:01 PM

tenpoundsofcheese: wtf are you talking about?


We're discussing manufacturing jobs.

Intel's automated factories produce quite a lot of chips that cost quite a lot of money.

What does that have to do with all those jobs that required laborers being move out of the country, though?
Nothing.
 
2013-08-03 04:15:53 PM

ghostwind: jim32rr: Lived in Germany for a bit after exiting the Army, I found it interesting that in Germany, 'management and unions worked closely together in the interests of the common good. Indeed, by law all major German firms are required to set up Works Councils, where the bosses and the unions must work together 'in a spirit of mutual trust'.


///words from a BBC story

No they do not have to set up Works Councils. The only time a company is required to do so is if a set number (I think it is either 2 or 3) request a vote on it. if a majority of the employees vote for it, then the company must support it.



Yeah I think they meant large companies like Volkswagen AG, Siemens, Thyssenn Krupp and so on
 
2013-08-03 04:15:59 PM

Parthenogenetic: miniflea: You know the science fiction trope that technology will reach a level where physical labor is all but eliminated and that society will become a sort of utopia where no one wants for anything and all are free to pursue the arts or some such?  I really think that the more likely scenario is that a few oligarchs will be super wealthy while the rest of us are living in crushing poverty.

There will still be a small middle class of engineers/technicians, and police/soldiers to keep the Morlocks at bay.  But yeah, they'll be vassals of the Eloi, and constantly threatened with being cast out of Paradise to face the teeming hordes that hate them as much as their masters.


I'm beginning to think movies like Elysium is not just for entertainment but rather a prophetic message. I mean if you look at the trend today it is highly likely something like that will be humanity's future.
 
2013-08-03 04:16:27 PM

Outrageous Muff: It's only a failure if you make shiat money AND vote republican.


FourBlackBars: This is the perfect GOP economy: money flows up into the rentier class while the increasingly poor bottom votes Republican to keep the Mexicans and gays from ruining their lives.


LordJiro: So there are enough poor and desperate people. The GOP just needs to get those pesky minimum wage and workplace safety laws repealed, and corporations can FINALLY bring jobs back from China!


choo: Thanks, GOP!


Keep pointing fingers. It's all those OTHER guys' fault!! My team is good, their team is BAD!! Surely if we keep separating ourselves down some arbitrary ideological line and fighting everything the other half of the country wants tooth and nail regardless of merit, things will just fix themselves. And before some genius comes along and says "Both sides are bad, so vote Republican herpa derpa doo!!", no, both sides are not the same. If all you care about are your pet social issues while our economy continues to be held ransom by the rich and powerful, then keep cheering for your team. Our system is broken and absolutely, completely corrupted by big money interests. Yes, the GOP has gone largely off the rails lately and I'm not saying that social issues aren't important, but if you look at actual economic and regulatory legislation that has led us down this path, it has been a bipartisan effort. The only thing both sides can actually agree on is farking over Middle America to benefit themselves and/or their rich masters. Deregulation of Wall Street, Too Big To Fail, corporate personhood, failure to fix campaign finance laws, broken regulatory agencies with revolving doors of employees between the agencies and the entities they are supposed to be regulating, trade agreements that make it easier to ship jobs overseas and tax policies that encourage dumping US production for offshore operations, among MANY other things, ALL have broad bipartisan support. The GOP didn't do this all by themselves.

Yes, the Republican stance on many social issues is repugnant, and they openly fellate big business while giving the poor the finger. The Democrats like to talk big about helping the poor and the middle class, but they don't care any more about you than the Republicans do. They're just preaching to a different choir, so they have to sing a different tune. They like to talk tough about sticking it to the rich and big business but don't actually believe it. They sure as hell don't want to disrupt their OWN gravy train, or piss off the people who own them like chattel. The biggest difference in economic policy between the two parties is how much bullshiat you like in your shiat sandwich. But none of our disastrous economic policies are the Democrats' fault, it's all because REPUBLICANS ARE BIG MEAN POOPYHEADS!!

Whatever. Keep cheerleading for the Dems instead of having a serious conversation about true political reform. Maybe in another 10 years we'll get legal gay marriage and deregulation of pot, which would be cool. Gay spouses all over the country will be able smoke a doob together after their shift ends at Taco Bell and talk about how great the Democrats are before heading off to start their shift at Wal Mart. Personally, if I'm getting forcefully legitimate raped in the ass by 2 cocks, it really doesn't matter to me that one of them is slightly more enthusiastic about it. I'm still getting farked either way.
 
2013-08-03 04:19:17 PM

mod3072: Keep cheerleading for the Dems instead of having a serious conversation about true political reform


thing is, the state of the economy and jobs is at the end of the day the doing of the private sector. And for many blaming the private sector for anything is a no go.
 
2013-08-03 04:19:24 PM

Infernalist: The richest in this country have spent 40 years working hard to drag us back down to the glory years before The New Deal came along and 'now' you all seem surprised for some reason.


The fact that the results have been the opposite of what Ayn Rand et al promised is one they cannot process. They can choose between two hallucinatory psychoses : One, that they are or ever will be a member of the 1 or 2 percent of the population who have actually benefited from this, or, two, that all the things that the Reagan/Bush years brought us were somehow the work of "liberals".
 
2013-08-03 04:19:48 PM

LawrencePerson: If America continues to advance toward a European-sized, crony-capitalist, cradle-to-grave welfare state, expect European levels of bankruptcy, unemployment, and demographic decline.

The future of America will look more and more like the present of Detroit and Greece.


It's a shame the United State doesn't have any control over its own currency! Yeah, exactly the same as Detroit and Greece..
 
2013-08-03 04:21:05 PM
mod3072: Wall of text on the poor, poor persecuted GOP.

That's a lot of text just to say Both Sides are Bad so Vote Republican. Especially on the apologetics on the issues of social conservativism being what is killing the GOP.
 
2013-08-03 04:23:12 PM

vpb: BunkyBrewman: We've been well aware that our entire economy is shifting to service based for at least a few decades now.

Yes, since we decided to shift it in that direction in the 80's.


Remember, this is being hyped as the flexible economy. Somehow the service based economy bends in every direction but upward mobility.
 
2013-08-03 04:25:16 PM
America in decline.
 
2013-08-03 04:25:30 PM

lousy screw: This is a serious question, not a polemic masked as one. It seems throughout our history before World War II the U.S. and, indeed, the world did not have a sizeable middle class. It was the haves and the have-nots, by and large, with a small middle- or merchant class.

After WWII, the American industrial machine ramped up exponentially, producing consumer goods, largely for a domestic market, produced by a well-paid, moderate- to low-skill workforce. Producers could afford to pay these wages because they were selling their products to a somewhat captive market at high prices.

Over time, with efficiencies in manufacturing processes and improved global transport systems, the American market was flooded with lower-cost goods produced in countries without American-style wage structures or worker-safety and environmental protections.

These and a number of other factors killed the American producer/consumer cycle that formed after the 1940s.

My questions are; was the economic structure that produced such a huge middle class in America a false one?

Was it all a pyramid scheme that was destined to collapse?


No, it took a LOT of hard work by scheming fast-buck corporate types and seditious, corrupt politicians to kill the US economic machine - and it took decades to achieve that goal.


lousy screw: Is the very notion of a free economy without huge wealth disparities even practical on a scale as big as the American one? Or is a new model conceivable that would put a healthy percentage of Americans back to work at good wages, without raping the environment and putting lives at risk?


It was possible - but that horse left the barn, wandered down the road and died many years ago.

As you alluded to above, it was the one-two punch that killed it: US Workers naturally wanted (and Unions helped them to get) better, safer working conditions, health and retirement benefits, etc, and decent living wages (the "middle class").

No problem.

Environmentally conscious and forward-thinking people naturally wanted tighter restrictions and controls placed on business to prevent pollution and other hazards for the benefit of man and nature.

Again, no big deal.

The PROBLEM was that these employee benefits and business restrictions drastically increased the costs of doing business - which wouldn't have necessarily been a problem - IF we had simultaneously enacted sensible import restrictions and tariffs that would have allowed US industries to remain competitive with imports from other countries that faced no similar mandates for better working conditions and pollution controls... but we didn't. We allowed foreign competitors to DUMP their products on the US market, and one by one, industries began to either fail, or to move their production facilities overseas in order to remain alive.

Steel and other heavy industries: Gone
Textiles industries: Gone
Consumer electronics manufacturing: Gone
Durable consumer goods manufacturing: Gone
Automobile industry: (See Detroit)
(etc)

Add to this ONE MORE nail: Kill all reasonable Guest Worker programs and replace them with lax, unenforced laws allowing "undocumented workers" to flood into the country (wink wink, nod nod) undercutting the wages in the construction and skilled trades, in manufacturing, and in the service industries.

The US economy and the middle class are not dying of "natural causes", but are the victims of intentional slow-poisoning by seditious, corrupt politicians - REPUBLICAN and DEMOCRAT, that have been intentionally enacting disastrous policies for decades in the service of a handful of pernicious special interest groups who have become massively fat by feeding on America's rotting carcass.

Future looks bright, though!
 
2013-08-03 04:27:19 PM

Amos Quito: We allowed foreign competitors to DUMP their products on the US market, and one by one, industries began to either fail, or to move their production facilities overseas in order to remain alive.


Those industries you list either undid themselves or just relocated in the name of a bigger bottom line.
 
2013-08-03 04:28:06 PM

jruland: hiring in retail means there's been an increase in consumption.



Consumption?

Yeah, and it's antibiotic resistant, too.
 
2013-08-03 04:35:14 PM

Amos Quito: Vectron: Obviously we need more workers. Amnesty!


Yeah, the cool thing is that our new "guests" will be willing to flip those burgers at half the going wage.


It gets even better.

Last I heard the new arrivals don't count toward your 50 person limit on the new health care law (Obamacare)

So

1) They'll work cheaper
2) They work harder
3) You can give them full time jobs and it not push you over your 50 limit so that you have to spend all that money on health care.
4) There now legal to hire

Why would you hire a native born when you can get these guys? Fire the born heres and hire the new legal illegals.
 
2013-08-03 04:36:23 PM

hardinparamedic: mod3072: Wall of text on the poor, poor persecuted GOP.

That's a lot of text just to say Both Sides are Bad so Vote Republican. Especially on the apologetics on the issues of social conservativism being what is killing the GOP.


Plenty of 'thanks, Obama' posts but he only picks the 'thanks, GOP' posts. Pretty much stopped reading there.

Yes, yes, Both Sides Are Bad. Some Sides Are More Bad Than Others isn't helping.
 
2013-08-03 04:37:16 PM

CujoQuarrel: Amos Quito: Vectron: Obviously we need more workers. Amnesty!

4) There now legal to hire

There == They're


Preview preview preview ...........
 
2013-08-03 04:40:30 PM
I'm a white collar worker, as was my father and grandfather.  I hate my office job.  I'm 30 years old and over-educated.  How does someone like me enter a trade?
 
2013-08-03 04:41:27 PM

WhyteRaven74: Amos Quito: We allowed foreign competitors to DUMP their products on the US market, and one by one, industries began to either fail, or to move their production facilities overseas in order to remain alive.

Those industries you list either undid themselves or just relocated in the name of a bigger bottom line.



Bullshiat.

Most of those that died did so because they couldn't compete with foreign dumping.

Those that moved overseas did so because it was either that or DIE, because utilizing the cheap labor and non-existent environmental standards that their overseas competitors enjoyed was the ONLY way that they could remain competitive.

What do you suppose would have happened if the US govt would have applied sensible import restrictions tariffs? Would they have moved overseas? No, because with those tariffs n place, it would have been more profitable to stay right here and utilize US labor.

See?
 
2013-08-03 04:44:30 PM
Here's the thing.

There are too many people who assume they are OWED a job/living/what have you.

Jobs are dying.

It doesn't take a three-digit IQ to see that work is being outsourced to either the third world or to automation. If you believe that you can survive by working in the future, you're not going to be around to realize that you were wrong.

Survival, much less success is less about what you do for work and more about what you create in terms of value. Do you personally produce anything of value? A product, a solution to a problem, an analysis of a trend that has been previously undiscovered? Those who are successful today do this very thing. They don't work, they create things that other people need and are willing to buy.

The harsh reality is that labor is a fungible commodity to be purchased at the lowest possible price so if you are expecting the government or business to value yours higher than someone or something else's, then you're going to be unpleasantly surprised.
 
2013-08-03 04:45:14 PM

CujoQuarrel: Amos Quito: Vectron: Obviously we need more workers. Amnesty!


Yeah, the cool thing is that our new "guests" will be willing to flip those burgers at half the going wage.

It gets even better.

Last I heard the new arrivals don't count toward your 50 person limit on the new health care law (Obamacare)

So

1) They'll work cheaper
2) They work harder
3) You can give them full time jobs and it not push you over your 50 limit so that you have to spend all that money on health care.
4) There now legal to hire

Why would you hire a native born when you can get these guys? Fire the born heres and hire the new legal illegals.



Bonus:

Once the "new legals" are legal, it will open up a huge demand to fill the positions that they formerly occupied as illegals, so we'll have a brand new bumper crop of "undocumented workers" pouring over the borders to fill that demand.

VIVA IMMIGRATION REFORM!!!
 
2013-08-03 04:47:08 PM

WhyteRaven74: mod3072: Keep cheerleading for the Dems instead of having a serious conversation about true political reform

thing is, the state of the economy and jobs is at the end of the day the doing of the private sector. And for many blaming the private sector for anything is a no go.


That's partially true, but public policy has a HUGE impact on the private sector. We can't force companies to create more jobs, but can craft, for example, tax and trade policies that don't encourage (or, ideally, that actively DIScourage) shipping good jobs overseas.
 
2013-08-03 04:48:47 PM

mod3072: Outrageous Muff: It's only a failure if you make shiat money AND vote republican.

FourBlackBars: This is the perfect GOP economy: money flows up into the rentier class while the increasingly poor bottom votes Republican to keep the Mexicans and gays from ruining their lives.

LordJiro: So there are enough poor and desperate people. The GOP just needs to get those pesky minimum wage and workplace safety laws repealed, and corporations can FINALLY bring jobs back from China!

choo: Thanks, GOP!

Keep pointing fingers. It's all those OTHER guys' fault!! My team is good, their team is BAD!! Surely if we keep separating ourselves down some arbitrary ideological line and fighting everything the other half of the country wants tooth and nail regardless of merit, things will just fix themselves. And before some genius comes along and says "Both sides are bad, so vote Republican herpa derpa doo!!", no, both sides are not the same. If all you care about are your pet social issues while our economy continues to be held ransom by the rich and powerful, then keep cheering for your team. Our system is broken and absolutely, completely corrupted by big money interests. Yes, the GOP has gone largely off the rails lately and I'm not saying that social issues aren't important, but if you look at actual economic and regulatory legislation that has led us down this path, it has been a bipartisan effort. The only thing both sides can actually agree on is farking over Middle America to benefit themselves and/or their rich masters. Deregulation of Wall Street, Too Big To Fail, corporate personhood, failure to fix campaign finance laws, broken regulatory agencies with revolving doors of employees between the agencies and the entities they are supposed to be regulating, trade agreements that make it easier to ship jobs overseas and tax policies that encourage dumping US production for offshore operations, among MANY other things, ALL have broad bipartisan support. The GOP didn't do this al ...


That was pathetic. So basically we're getting screwed by corporations either way so let's choose the guys that are gonna turn the country into freaking Bible camp... because, yanno, whatever.

Idiot.
 
2013-08-03 04:50:35 PM

Amos Quito: lousy screw: This is a serious question, not a polemic masked as one. It seems throughout our history before World War II the U.S. and, indeed, the world did not have a sizeable middle class. It was the haves and the have-nots, by and large, with a small middle- or merchant class.

After WWII, the American industrial machine ramped up exponentially, producing consumer goods, largely for a domestic market, produced by a well-paid, moderate- to low-skill workforce. Producers could afford to pay these wages because they were selling their products to a somewhat captive market at high prices.

Over time, with efficiencies in manufacturing processes and improved global transport systems, the American market was flooded with lower-cost goods produced in countries without American-style wage structures or worker-safety and environmental protections.

These and a number of other factors killed the American producer/consumer cycle that formed after the 1940s.

My questions are; was the economic structure that produced such a huge middle class in America a false one? Was it all a pyramid scheme that was destined to collapse?


No, it took a LOT of hard work by scheming fast-buck corporate types and seditious, corrupt politicians to kill the US economic machine - and it took decades to achieve that goal.


lousy screw: Is the very notion of a free economy without huge wealth disparities even practical on a scale as big as the American one? Or is a new model conceivable that would put a healthy percentage of Americans back to work at good wages, without raping the environment and putting lives at risk?

It was possible - but that horse left the barn, wandered down the road and died many years ago.

As you alluded to above, it was the one-two punch that killed it: US Workers naturally wanted (and Unions helped them to get) better, safer working conditions, health and retirement benefits, etc, and decent living wages (the "middle class").

No problem.

Environmentally conscious ...


The problem is that special interests are given the last word.

Let's look at health care, billions pumped into Congress and other places promoting our current system while the costs to the American consumer inflate to cover the override. What's the solution? Comprehensive single-payer as has been done by most of our Cold War allies? No, force every American in the country to buy health insurance from the Insurance industry, basically giving the keys to the people who made us pay 4-7x the cost of health care in other countries to begin with. This hurts the poor the most, simply because they have the least amount of money to spend on these things.

Let's look at environmental regulations: Back when the EPA was founded, smog was /terrible/. Not quite as terrible as, say, Beijing today, but it was harder to breath in places, like LA or Chicago. The EPA did good work to secure a healthier America in many ways. But ever since Obama came into office, they've used those laws to aggressively target politically unpopular segments of the economy, which has/will drive up costs of essentials like power, which will hurt the poor most of all. No efforts are made to ameliorate this, not even power tax credits for the poor.

Everywhere you look, this is what's happening in America. Single target interests set the knob to 11 and won't compromise in any way to get their vision of the future to come about and they pay enough money and get their interests attended to. Sure, big business isn't all that grand, but Congress needs to be cleaned first. They are supposed to be the gate keepers, but they are just as money-hungry as the senior management at companies and will accept cash to keep that gate wide open.

Or, if we are really okay with getting rid of the poor, we could just bring rats from Pandyssia. That should get rid of them all.
 
2013-08-03 04:51:34 PM

mod3072: tax and trade policies that don't encourage (or, ideally, that actively DIScourage) shipping good jobs overseas.


And what exactly do you think Mr Romney did all those years over at Bain? That's your savior? I don't particularly like the O man either but holy cripes... magic underwear guy? Really?!
 
2013-08-03 04:56:39 PM

BullBearMS: tenpoundsofcheese: wtf are you talking about?

We're discussing manufacturing jobs.

Intel's automated factories produce quite a lot of chips that cost quite a lot of money.


So you want Intel to have people produce those chips by hand using teeny tiny tweezers?
 
2013-08-03 04:58:17 PM

tenpoundsofcheese: So you want Intel to have people produce those chips by hand using teeny tiny tweezers?


No, dummy. That's what the de-bigganator is for!
 
2013-08-03 05:01:44 PM

Arsten: The problem is that special interests are given the last word.

Let's look at health care, billions pumped into Congress and other places promoting our current system while the costs to the American consumer inflate to cover the override. What's the solution? Comprehensive single-payer as has been done by most of our Cold War allies? No, force every American in the country to buy health insurance from the Insurance industry, basically giving the keys to the people who made us pay 4-7x the cost of health care in other countries to begin with. This hurts the poor the most, simply because they have the least amount of money to spend on these things.

Let's look at environmental regulations: Back when the EPA was founded, smog was /terrible/. Not quite as terrible as, say, Beijing today, but it was harder to breath in places, like LA or Chicago. The EPA did good work to secure a healthier America in many ways. But ever since Obama came into office, they've used those laws to aggressively target politically unpopular segments of the economy, which has/will drive up costs of essentials like power, which will hurt the poor most of all. No efforts are made to ameliorate this, not even power tax credits for the poor.

Everywhere you look, this is what's happening in America. Single target interests set the knob to 11 and won't compromise in any way to get their vision of the future to come about and they pay enough money and get their interests attended to. Sure, big business isn't all that grand, but Congress needs to be cleaned first. They are supposed to be the gate keepers, but they are just as money-hungry as the senior management at companies and will accept cash to keep that gate wide open.



Indeed.

The problem is not that there are special interest groups that will happily sacrifice America for their own personal gain, the problem is that they need corrupt, slimebag politicians to HELP them to fark American interests over - and that the corrupt, treasonous politicians are ALL TOO HAPPY to oblige.

You will ALWAYS have greedy SOB's trying to fark the public over - that's a given.

Where we, the public have failed is in our duty to hold the corrupt, treasonous politicians PAINFULLY accountable for their seditious collusion with the greedy bastards.

So much rope to be stretched - so little time.
 
2013-08-03 05:03:16 PM
The data disappointed Wall Street economists but are consistent with the trends Dan Alpert, managing partner at Westwood Capital, cited in a recent report: "The fact is that the U.S. employment situation is more of a wounded beast than a bull," he writes.

Perhaps if these so-called Wizards of Wall St weren't so farking greedy, making their billions by just repackaging / reselling financial instruments instead of creating real value...
 
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