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(Yahoo)   Failure is an option, America. We have become a nation of hamburger flippers   (finance.yahoo.com) divider line 298
    More: Fail, Dan Alpert, Economic sector, losers  
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12757 clicks; posted to Main » on 03 Aug 2013 at 2:53 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-08-03 03:14:59 PM  

Amos Quito: [i1121.photobucket.com image 631x615]

Repubs have been blaming the Dems and vice versa for generations...

How's that working out for you, America?


Not blaming the Jews anymore?
 
2013-08-03 03:15:02 PM  

One Bad Apple: johnryan51: 15.80 an hr. Wow, I'm surprised that its that high. If that's the true # then its not to bad.

It also depends om where you live too. $16 an hour in NYC is starvation wages.


I live in NYC and make $16 an hour, I'm nowhere near starving.
 
2013-08-03 03:15:08 PM  

Sudlow: I forget, is this the third or fourth "recovery summer"?


Don't know... is this an election year?
 
2013-08-03 03:15:13 PM  
Obviously we need more workers. Amnesty!
 
2013-08-03 03:15:44 PM  
When I'm working, I make very good money. I've been working nearly nonstop since fall of 2010. But now my industry (I'm a contractor) has hit 'famine' stage. One of our large plants shut down, dumping nearly a thousand people into the workforce. The plants that had scheduled outages this fall either aren't going to outage or staffed early.

/Lucky I have a kind family who understands how the industry booms and busts
//unemployment pays my student loans, car and health insurance, and phone, that's it
///self insured
 
2013-08-03 03:16:46 PM  
http://profoundlydisconnected.com/   found this interesting.
 
2013-08-03 03:17:41 PM  
I for one welcome our Assistant Manager overloards.
 
2013-08-03 03:17:43 PM  
Until we have self-flipping burgers, I'm okay with this.
 
2013-08-03 03:19:35 PM  
A liberal economy and $15 an hour burger flippers, right?
 
2013-08-03 03:19:47 PM  

Outrageous Muff: Amos Quito: [i1121.photobucket.com image 631x615]

Repubs have been blaming the Dems and vice versa for generations...

How's that working out for you, America?

Not blaming the Jews anymore?



Any more than what?
 
2013-08-03 03:20:29 PM  
This is a serious question, not a polemic masked as one.  It seems throughout our history before World War II the U.S. and, indeed, the world did not have a sizeable middle class.  It was the haves and the have-nots, by and large, with a small middle- or merchant class.

After WWII, the American industrial machine ramped up exponentially, producing consumer goods, largely for a domestic market, produced by a well-paid, moderate- to low-skill workforce.  Producers could afford to pay these wages because they were selling their products to a somewhat captive market at high prices.

Over time, with efficiencies in manufacturing processes and improved global transport systems, the American market was flooded with lower-cost goods produced in countries without American-style wage structures or worker-safety and environmental protections.

These and a number of other factors killed the American producer/consumer cycle that formed after the 1940s.

My questions are; was the economic structure that produced such a huge middle class in America a false one?  Was it all a pyramid scheme that was destined to collapse?  Is the very notion of a free economy without huge wealth disparities even practical on a scale as big as the American one? Or is a new model conceivable that would put a healthy percentage of Americans back to work at good wages, without raping the environment and putting lives at risk?

As I said, I'm not arguing any school of thought on this issue, as I really don't know what the solution is, or even if my stated assumptions are valid.
 
2013-08-03 03:20:58 PM  
Lived in Germany for a bit after exiting the Army, I found it interesting that in Germany, 'management and unions worked closely together in the interests of the common good. Indeed, by law all major German firms are required to set up Works Councils, where the bosses and the unions must work together 'in a spirit of mutual trust'.

Sounds all Socialisty
 
2013-08-03 03:21:13 PM  

sigdiamond2000: "The world needs ditch diggers. Not everyone is a special snowflake."

"I'm a ditch digger. "

"LOL you f*ckin loser!"


:( im a contractor; kick etc
 
2013-08-03 03:22:29 PM  

Vectron: Obviously we need more workers. Amnesty!



Yeah, the cool thing is that our new "guests" will be willing to flip those burgers at half the going wage.
 
2013-08-03 03:23:25 PM  
This is nothing new.  This has been the story of the so-called recovery since day one.  All is takes is the effort to look behind the numbers.  The recovery has been a grand success in that the large banks and Wall Street have been bailed-out and are now reaping record profits while the stock market is at a record high.  This is exactly as intended.  As for the rest of us, no so much but then that was never the point of all of the policies initiated at the end of the Bush years and supported by Obama.
 
2013-08-03 03:23:27 PM  

edmo: Soon we'll have the largest, most educated, well-armed class of poor people in the world.


After they sent the good jobs overseas, with their free trade bullshiat, they told us we weren't going to miss them because we were all going to college and get information age jobs.

Don't ever listen to politicians. They had a theory that turned out to be wrong. Who suffers? They enriched themselves and their friends in DC and on Wall St. while the rest of the country bore the brunt of their miscalculations. The Fed serves Wall St. only.  I am beginning to think secession is the only option to rid ourselves of Washington DC and the connivers.
 
2013-08-03 03:23:50 PM  
hiring in retail means there's been an increase in consumption.
 
2013-08-03 03:25:40 PM  

jim32rr: Lived in Germany for a bit after exiting the Army, I found it interesting that in Germany, 'management and unions worked closely together in the interests of the common good. Indeed, by law all major German firms are required to set up Works Councils, where the bosses and the unions must work together 'in a spirit of mutual trust'.


///words from a BBC story


Sozalisms!

/   'Merkin point of view
 
2013-08-03 03:26:35 PM  

agsfark: choo: Thanks, GOP

Ain't that the truth. How could they not find a candidate to beat the current Moron in
Chief?


The media wont let them win.  I knew 20 things about Sarah Palin's life, husband, kids, grandkids, the grandkids who were her actual kids, husband's job, husband's previous job, who her kids were dating, her wardrobe budget for the primaries, and part of her DNA and likelihood of trisomy occurring during a pregnancy.  None of that information was shared in a positive light.  She wasn't even running for president.

COMMUNITY ORGANIZER (a made-up term) was given more credence than someone who was an actual chief executive of a state.  It was said Obama had more experience.

On the other hand, I didn't even know if Biden had kids on election day.  All I know about him to this day is that he gaffe's about as much as Bush did but in a more adorable way, and The Onion likes him and keeps making endearing "Oh look he is washing his Trans Am on the White House lawn" jokes.

The baby of George Washington and Thomas Jefferson could run today, because he came back in time from a cloning vat, and he could claim he had perfect knowledge of the next 200 years of world history, and knew exactly what, and when, to do, and if they are on the Republican ticket they couldn't win.  The democrat candidate would just laugh and kill and eat an infant on live TV during primetime on all the networks and basic cable and still get 52% of the vote.  The media has done their jobs well.
 
2013-08-03 03:27:53 PM  

Amos Quito: Vectron: Obviously we need more workers. Amnesty!


Yeah, the cool thing is that our new "guests" will be willing to flip those burgers at half the going wage.


The impact of giving 11-20 million folks amnesty is not being discussed .... move along
 
2013-08-03 03:28:18 PM  
If only there was an untapped reserve of workers willing to come here.

Then we could be the .........ASSISTANT MANAGERS. Feel the power, feeel-iiiit.
 
2013-08-03 03:28:33 PM  
Also "gaffe's" was a typo, so try not to focus on that when weighing my post's merit.
 
2013-08-03 03:29:49 PM  
encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com
 
Ant
2013-08-03 03:29:57 PM  

silvervial: They realized there would be a revolution in this country if they didn't give some sops to the poor/working class, so they did. And it worked.


OMG! Hey, poor people, look over there! It's the gays/illegal immigrants/socialists! Quick, vote Republican, and we'll protect you!!!!
 
2013-08-03 03:30:33 PM  

LordJiro: So there are enough poor and desperate people. The GOP just needs to get those pesky minimum wage and workplace safety laws repealed, and corporations can FINALLY bring jobs back from China!


Funny thing is, this is what Republicans actually believe. Exploit the poor in order to benefit the rich, make it just like the 1890s again.
 
2013-08-03 03:30:33 PM  
I read an article the other day about how the conservative party leader of Ontario's economic plan for Windsor was everyone should get high paying jobs in Detroit and bring the money back to Canada.

lulzylulzylulz
 
2013-08-03 03:31:01 PM  

MaudlinMutantMollusk: vpb: BunkyBrewman: We've been well aware that our entire economy is shifting to service based for at least a few decades now.

Yes, since we decided to shift it in that direction in the 80's.

As the manufacturing jobs were being moved overseas, coincidentally

/I always wondered how a country can have a gross national product once they've stopped actually producing anything


To be fair, quite a lot of them just moved across the border to Mexico.

The destruction of America's manufacturing jobs was hardly accidental and it was completely bipartisan.

Bush Senior began negotiation of the first of the free trade agreements that allowed the rich to move America's manufacturing jobs out of the United States without facing any sort of financial penalty when the finished goods were brought back inside the US for sale.

Clinton finished the negotiations and fought to have the treaty ratified as one of his very first actions in office. He blew a huge amount of political capital to get it past his own party due to huge union opposition.

Bought off representatives of both parties repeatedly promised that these treaties would mean more manufacturing jobs for Americans.

Clinton while signing the NAFTA bill stated: "...NAFTA means jobs. American jobs, and good-paying American jobs. If I didn't believe that, I wouldn't support this agreement."

They lied.
 
2013-08-03 03:31:47 PM  

silvervial: Infernalist: The richest in this country have spent 40 years working hard to drag us back down to the glory years before The New Deal came along and 'now' you all seem surprised for some reason.

Exactly! Why people cannot see that this has been the goal of the (mainly) republicans for YEARS, to return us to the days of the robber barons, is beyond me. Maybe they never read any history?

But the pendulum is going to swing back hard soon. The New Deal was mostly able to be put into place because a lot of wise people feared socialism, real socialism not the boogy man created by the teahadists. They realized there would be a revolution in this country if they didn't give some sops to the poor/working class, so they did. And it worked. It has ceased working because so much has been dismantled.

Either there will be a return to focus on the working class/poor/middle class...or there will be revolt.


This.
 
Ant
2013-08-03 03:34:01 PM  

IP: *sigh*. The race to the bottom continues apace...


Woo hoo! You're on! We'll kick everyone's ass!
 
2013-08-03 03:34:19 PM  

sigdiamond2000: "The world needs ditch diggers. Not everyone is a special snowflake."

"I'm a ditch digger. "

"LOL you f*ckin loser!"


Considering the ditch diggers are using heavy equipment these days, I'm not sure it's a loser job.  It's certainly not a job that requires all that many people nowadays.  But what job does now? Say what you will, every field will be automated,and thankfully, we're moving toward a "everyone must work, no more welfare" model.

/wait, what?
 
2013-08-03 03:34:49 PM  

LawrencePerson: If America continues to advance toward a European-sized, crony-capitalist, cradle-to-grave welfare state, expect European levels of bankruptcy, unemployment, and demographic decline.

The future of America will look more and more like the present of Detroit and Greece.


Like Greece, the wealthiest people and corporations do everything they can to avoid paying taxes to support the infrastructure and civilization they require for them to make profits.

Also exporting manufacturing jobs due to cheap fuel to move completed products to market caused the labor collapse which employed people who in turn paid taxes and bought the products.

Welcome back to 1890.
 
2013-08-03 03:35:41 PM  

BunkyBrewman: We've been well aware that our entire economy is shifting to service based for at least a few decades now.


Service? Hamburger assembly is clearly a manufacturing job.
 
2013-08-03 03:36:21 PM  
We still have music, movies, and microcode, though.

Right?
 
2013-08-03 03:36:39 PM  
fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net
 
2013-08-03 03:36:50 PM  

Amos Quito: Vectron: Obviously we need more workers. Amnesty!

Yeah, the cool thing is that our new "guests" will be willing to flip those burgers at half the going wage.


Top GOP donors press lawmakers to act on immigration reform

Surely doing exactly what the rich want can't possibly go wrong AGAIN? Can it?

Look how well those free trade agreements the rich bought and paid for worked out for Detroit!
 
2013-08-03 03:37:49 PM  
This problem has been in the works for a few decades. Our educational system sucks and continues to fail (yet) another generation.  When manufacturers learned that they could go overseas with jobs formerly based in the USA, especially in the late 70s/early 80s after Big Steel and Big Auto went into decline, that was the beginning of the end.  With the emergence of China as a factory for everything else, the actual production capabilities of this country are now often owned by foreign interests.  Even those that are not face very difficult opposition from places willing to pay far less in cost and ship here for massive profits.  So long as we do not take action to reform education and bring manufacturing jobs back stateside, this problem will continue.  Eventually the financial and technology sectors will complete their moves to places like Frankfurt, Shanghai, and Bangalore, leaving us a giant relic of the 20th century with an increasingly intrusive government capable of much more observation and control than Stalin could possibly dream of.
 
Ant
2013-08-03 03:38:05 PM  

silvervial: Either there will be a return to focus on the working class/poor/middle class...or there will be revolt.


I doubt that. Remember all the poor working-class slobs proudly bragging about how many jobs they had to hold down in order to make a living during that whole 1% vs the 99% and Occupy Wall Street stuff?
 
2013-08-03 03:38:27 PM  
Time to re-open the failure option:

www.angryflower.com
 
2013-08-03 03:39:01 PM  

johnryan51: 15.80 an hr. Wow, I'm surprised that its that high. If that's the true # then its not to bad.


The median is probably quite a bit lower.
 
2013-08-03 03:40:05 PM  
...but, but everybody got a trophy in school. How could this happen?


/I blame Bush and/or Obama.
 
2013-08-03 03:42:11 PM  

GORDON: agsfark: choo: Thanks, GOP

Ain't that the truth. How could they not find a candidate to beat the current Moron in
Chief?

The media wont let them win.  I knew 20 things about Sarah Palin's life, husband, kids, grandkids, the grandkids who were her actual kids, husband's job, husband's previous job, who her kids were dating, her wardrobe budget for the primaries, and part of her DNA and likelihood of trisomy occurring during a pregnancy.  None of that information was shared in a positive light.  She wasn't even running for president.

COMMUNITY ORGANIZER (a made-up term) was given more credence than someone who was an actual chief executive of a state.  It was said Obama had more experience.

On the other hand, I didn't even know if Biden had kids on election day.  All I know about him to this day is that he gaffe's about as much as Bush did but in a more adorable way, and The Onion likes him and keeps making endearing "Oh look he is washing his Trans Am on the White House lawn" jokes.

The baby of George Washington and Thomas Jefferson could run today, because he came back in time from a cloning vat, and he could claim he had perfect knowledge of the next 200 years of world history, and knew exactly what, and when, to do, and if they are on the Republican ticket they couldn't win.  The democrat candidate would just laugh and kill and eat an infant on live TV during primetime on all the networks and basic cable and still get 52% of the vote.  The media has done their jobs well.


Awesome.

This is how it's done, folks, hahahaha a little heavy handed on the MSM whine, though.
 
2013-08-03 03:42:36 PM  
But, when similar "improvements" to the jobs picture was reported back when Georgie Porgie was president, everyone was all "yeah, but the type of jobs created were low paying, service jobs."  WHAR THE OUTRAGE WHEN IT'S PRESIDENT HOPEY?  WHAR?

The truth is somewhere along the lines of the state of the economy has very little to do with whatever "leadership" is provided by the president or Congress.  Oops, does this get me banned on Fark?
 
2013-08-03 03:45:21 PM  

lousy screw: This is a serious question, not a polemic masked as one.  It seems throughout our history before World War II the U.S. and, indeed, the world did not have a sizeable middle class.  It was the haves and the have-nots, by and large, with a small middle- or merchant class.

After WWII, the American industrial machine ramped up exponentially, producing consumer goods, largely for a domestic market, produced by a well-paid, moderate- to low-skill workforce.  Producers could afford to pay these wages because they were selling their products to a somewhat captive market at high prices.

Over time, with efficiencies in manufacturing processes and improved global transport systems, the American market was flooded with lower-cost goods produced in countries without American-style wage structures or worker-safety and environmental protections.

These and a number of other factors killed the American producer/consumer cycle that formed after the 1940s.

My questions are; was the economic structure that produced such a huge middle class in America a false one?  Was it all a pyramid scheme that was destined to collapse?  Is the very notion of a free economy without huge wealth disparities even practical on a scale as big as the American one? Or is a new model conceivable that would put a healthy percentage of Americans back to work at good wages, without raping the environment and putting lives at risk?

As I said, I'm not arguing any school of thought on this issue, as I really don't know what the solution is, or even if my stated assumptions are valid.


I often wonder the same, and I suspect you may be correct.

You know the science fiction trope that technology will reach a level where physical labor is all but eliminated and that society will become a sort of utopia where no one wants for anything and all are free to pursue the arts or some such?  I really think that the more likely scenario is that a few oligarchs will be super wealthy while the rest of us are living in crushing poverty.
 
2013-08-03 03:46:08 PM  

GORDON: agsfark: choo: Thanks, GOP

Ain't that the truth. How could they not find a candidate to beat the current Moron in
Chief?

The media wont let them win.  I knew 20 things about Sarah Palin's life, husband, kids, grandkids, the grandkids who were her actual kids, husband's job, husband's previous job, who her kids were dating, her wardrobe budget for the primaries, and part of her DNA and likelihood of trisomy occurring during a pregnancy.  None of that information was shared in a positive light.  She wasn't even running for president.

COMMUNITY ORGANIZER (a made-up term) was given more credence than someone who was an actual chief executive of a state.  It was said Obama had more experience.

On the other hand, I didn't even know if Biden had kids on election day.  All I know about him to this day is that he gaffe's about as much as Bush did but in a more adorable way, and The Onion likes him and keeps making endearing "Oh look he is washing his Trans Am on the White House lawn" jokes.

The baby of George Washington and Thomas Jefferson could run today, because he came back in time from a cloning vat, and he could claim he had perfect knowledge of the next 200 years of world history, and knew exactly what, and when, to do, and if they are on the Republican ticket they couldn't win.  The democrat candidate would just laugh and kill and eat an infant on live TV during primetime on all the networks and basic cable and still get 52% of the vote.  The media has done their jobs well.


The GOP has done this to themselves. Nate Silver says the GOP has a financial message that rings true with many voters, but their stance on social issues is painting them in a corner. They can't piss off their core so they can't reach the moderates.
 
2013-08-03 03:46:26 PM  

Amos Quito: [i1121.photobucket.com image 631x615]

Repubs have been blaming the Dems and vice versa for generations...

How's that working out for you, America?


For the 1%, swimmingly!
 
2013-08-03 03:48:15 PM  
"These jobs, which account for 33% of all private sector jobs, pay an average of $15.80 per hour."

$15.80 an hour is a pretty decent wage in most places. You wont live like a king, but you'll manage. The problem is people are spoiled. They think they need to drive a new car, have the best furnishings in their house, $80 a month cable Tv on their 50" flat screens, $200 cell phones with a $75 monthly plan and a slew of other crap that you can live without.

Hell, $15.80 an hour is more than I'm making.
 
2013-08-03 03:48:34 PM  

miniflea: lousy screw: This is a serious question, not a polemic masked as one.  It seems throughout our history before World War II the U.S. and, indeed, the world did not have a sizeable middle class.  It was the haves and the have-nots, by and large, with a small middle- or merchant class.

After WWII, the American industrial machine ramped up exponentially, producing consumer goods, largely for a domestic market, produced by a well-paid, moderate- to low-skill workforce.  Producers could afford to pay these wages because they were selling their products to a somewhat captive market at high prices.

Over time, with efficiencies in manufacturing processes and improved global transport systems, the American market was flooded with lower-cost goods produced in countries without American-style wage structures or worker-safety and environmental protections.

These and a number of other factors killed the American producer/consumer cycle that formed after the 1940s.

My questions are; was the economic structure that produced such a huge middle class in America a false one?  Was it all a pyramid scheme that was destined to collapse?  Is the very notion of a free economy without huge wealth disparities even practical on a scale as big as the American one? Or is a new model conceivable that would put a healthy percentage of Americans back to work at good wages, without raping the environment and putting lives at risk?

As I said, I'm not arguing any school of thought on this issue, as I really don't know what the solution is, or even if my stated assumptions are valid.

I often wonder the same, and I suspect you may be correct.

You know the science fiction trope that technology will reach a level where physical labor is all but eliminated and that society will become a sort of utopia where no one wants for anything and all are free to pursue the arts or some such?  I really think that the more likely scenario is that a few oligarchs will be super wealthy while the rest of us are l ...


So you're thinking our future is going to be a lot like that Elysium movie set for release this weekend?
 
2013-08-03 03:49:53 PM  

silvervial:
Either there will be a return to focus on the working class/poor/middle class...or there will be revolt.


Nope.

Have you looked at your fellow Hippopotamus-American? They couldn't run a revolt because they can run 20 feet without gasping for breath.

The American public is fattened-up and dumbed-down for slaughter.

The owners of the country want the NSA so that they know what everyone is doing and thinking so that they're ready to quash any major dissent quickly.

I'm looking for a way out to work and live in a real developed country where the roads and bridges aren't neglected goat paths, they have 180mph trains, and you don't lose your home to a health emergency or going into 6 figure debt to put your kids through school.

Since the 1960's cartels have been establish to artificially raise prices in healthcare and education where once these things were considered a basic service of a civilized nation -- you know -- like every other developed nation does.

Now we're plagues with willfully ignorant tea-tards who vote to elect the people farking them even harder.

www.myconfinedspace.com
/never gets old
 
2013-08-03 03:50:18 PM  
Nabb1

I just hope this doesn't reflect poorly on Obama.

He could be caught raping a 12 year old and farks leftists would excuse and support it.
 
2013-08-03 03:50:26 PM  

One Bad Apple: johnryan51: 15.80 an hr. Wow, I'm surprised that its that high. If that's the true # then its not to bad.

It also depends om where you live too. $16 an hour in NYC is starvation wages.


I'm in Tennessee and you have to have a doctorate degree to make that kind of money.
 
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