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(NPR)   This just in: where you attend college actually matters, despite what University of Phoenix and other for-profit schools claim   (npr.org) divider line 120
    More: Obvious, University of Phoenix, for-profit schools, junior colleges, community colleges, associate degrees, white privilege  
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7276 clicks; posted to Main » on 02 Aug 2013 at 9:53 PM (51 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-08-02 09:19:11 PM
See? It can be done. You can get a high paying job out of college, by following a few simple rules:

1) Be handsome.
2) Be white
3) Don't be not white
 
2013-08-02 09:47:11 PM
It matters, but only in broad categories. There is the upper tier: Stanford, Harvard, MIT, etc, and that will get noticed on a resume. Then there is Generic State, which is what most applicants will have, and that's just fine. And then there are the poor bastards with degrees from non-regionally accredited for-profits. Those applications go in the trash.
 
2013-08-02 09:56:43 PM

revrendjim: And then there are the poor bastards with degrees from non-regionally accredited for-profits. Those applications go in the trash.


That poor trash can.
 
2013-08-02 09:58:00 PM
There's more tiers than that, reverendjim. And it matters what degree/job is involved.
 
2013-08-02 09:59:29 PM
I like that little jab about "white flight". Eventually minorities won't be able to blame white people for all their problems.
 
2013-08-02 10:00:45 PM
Ha. Like going to college means anything anymore.

This just in. If you're not already rich, or born into a rich family, you're probably farked. Probably.
 
2013-08-02 10:00:50 PM

revrendjim: It matters, but only in broad categories. There is the upper tier: Stanford, Harvard, MIT, etc, and that will get noticed on a resume. Then there is Generic State, which is what most applicants will have, and that's just fine. And then there are the poor bastards with degrees from non-regionally accredited for-profits. Those applications go in the trash.


are you still bitter about finding out your credits from ITT Tech Institute won't transfer to County College?
 
2013-08-02 10:01:33 PM
Harvard, Yale, and Princeton = A
MIT, Berkeley, etc. = B+
lower down = don't bother
 
2013-08-02 10:01:52 PM

Kygz: There's more tiers than that, reverendjim. And it matters what degree/job is involved.


there's the mid tier private schools. maybe you wont get the best education, but you get a great alumni network. usually that's just as good in terms of finding work
 
2013-08-02 10:02:12 PM
All colleges are "for profits" in one way or another......
 
2013-08-02 10:02:27 PM
I'd contend that it matters more what you study, and how much effort you put into said studies.
 
2013-08-02 10:04:43 PM
Thank goodness I gradurated from Harverd.
 
2013-08-02 10:04:57 PM
As a former Apollo Group IT employee it is going to be fun watching that place go down in flames over the next few years....
 
2013-08-02 10:05:15 PM

Kygz: There's more tiers than that, reverendjim. And it matters what degree/job is involved.


Oh, I know, I've been in the higher-ed business a long time. I was using the broadest brush.
 
2013-08-02 10:07:41 PM

tlchwi02: Kygz: There's more tiers than that, reverendjim. And it matters what degree/job is involved.

there's the mid tier private schools. maybe you wont get the best education, but you get a great alumni network. usually that's just as good in terms of finding work


Dad went to Williams, Mom was Bennington. Those colleges certainly have a place.
 
2013-08-02 10:07:42 PM
Just ask Penn State alums, lol.
 
2013-08-02 10:08:52 PM

revrendjim: It matters, but only in broad categories. There is the upper tier: Stanford, Harvard, MIT, etc, and that will get noticed on a resume. Then there is Generic State, which is what most applicants will have, and that's just fine. And then there are the poor bastards with degrees from non-regionally accredited for-profits. Those applications go in the trash.


I have a generic state degree, but a company I worked for later paid for my Univ. of Phoenix MBA (this was before online classes).  I would assume employers would just ignore the Univ of Phoenix degree if they felt that way.  Would employers trash my resume and ignore everything else because it has "Univ. of Phoenix" on it and therefore I would be better off to not mention it?

//doesn't matter too much since I run my own business now, but I'm curious in case things suddenly turn upside down.
 
2013-08-02 10:09:33 PM

SevenizGud: Harvard, Yale, and Princeton = A
MIT, Berkeley, etc. = B+
lower down = don't bother


Harvard+Yale=0.tqn.com
 
2013-08-02 10:11:20 PM

DubyaHater: I like that little jab about "white flight". Eventually minorities won't be able to blame white people for all their problems.


White Flight isn't exactly anything new.  It's just showing itself on a larger scale and there is more data to the actual effects as opposed to just yelling about it.
 
2013-08-02 10:13:11 PM

HempHead: SevenizGud: Harvard, Yale, and Princeton = A
MIT, Berkeley, etc. = B+
lower down = don't bother

Harvard+Yale=[0.tqn.com image 359x284]


Yeah, because president of the USA is a sure sign of lack of intelligence, amirite?

Oh, what's that? You are a tater tot cook at a bowling alley...okay, do go on. Oh, and you think you are smarter than President George W. Bush. Mmmmkay.

Nice debunked photoshp btw
 
2013-08-02 10:15:42 PM
Best way to find a job is to find a niche in whatever field you studied in and play to that.  The hiring manager won't give a rats ass about what school you went to if you have a specific set of skills they need and can't find elsewhere.
 
2013-08-02 10:16:13 PM

SevenizGud: HempHead: SevenizGud: Harvard, Yale, and Princeton = A
MIT, Berkeley, etc. = B+
lower down = don't bother

Harvard+Yale=[0.tqn.com image 359x284]

Yeah, because president of the USA is a sure sign of lack of intelligence, amirite?

Oh, what's that? You are a tater tot cook at a bowling alley...okay, do go on. Oh, and you think you are smarter than President George W. Bush. Mmmmkay.

Nice debunked photoshp btw



It's like watching a crazy homeless guy argue with himself.
 
2013-08-02 10:18:31 PM
"How to fix the diversity problem..." Basically they just flat out say "Give certain races preferential treatment"

Successfully tackling the diversity problem at the elite schools depends on some combination of race and class-based admissions criteria.

How about this instead: If you have 100 spots you admit the top 100 people and pay absolutely no attention to race or gender. The idea that people with excellent grades cannot get loans/grants for school is stupid, but let's pretend it's some great problem and create yet another program for them to afford it if that makes you feel better.
 
2013-08-02 10:19:39 PM

Apik0r0s: SevenizGud: HempHead: SevenizGud: Harvard, Yale, and Princeton = A
MIT, Berkeley, etc. = B+
lower down = don't bother

Harvard+Yale=[0.tqn.com image 359x284]

Yeah, because president of the USA is a sure sign of lack of intelligence, amirite?

Oh, what's that? You are a tater tot cook at a bowling alley...okay, do go on. Oh, and you think you are smarter than President George W. Bush. Mmmmkay.

Nice debunked photoshp btw


It's like watching a crazy homeless guy argue with himself.




He must have drifted over from the Drudge Report by accident.
 
2013-08-02 10:19:56 PM
Then strip the name out of the degree and make it unusable anywhere in the job market.
 
2013-08-02 10:20:31 PM
Hell, even dropping out of the right school has some cred.

University of Chicago dropouts represent... At least, the ones who aren't dead from drug overdose...
 
2013-08-02 10:21:13 PM

Cream of Meat: Best way to find a job is to find a niche in whatever field you studied in and play to that.  The hiring manager won't give a rats ass about what school you went to if you have a specific set of skills they need and can't find elsewhere.


THIS.

If a potential employer is looking at nothing more than the school you attended to make hiring decisions, you have to wonder if that's a place you really want to work at anyway.
 
2013-08-02 10:21:19 PM
As reported by Ricardo Romero, UoP graduate
 
2013-08-02 10:22:06 PM

Kygz: There's more tiers than that, reverendjim. And it matters what degree/job is involved.


In my Computer Science experience:

A++++ - Do venture capitalists show up to campus offering you millions to found a company (which then can turn into an acqui-hire even if it blows up and make you millions*)?
A - Does Google, Apple, Microsoft, Intel, Nvidia, AMD, etc show up to Campus?
D - Everyone else.

Mind you, just because Google et. all shows up to campus doesn't mean that they'll pay attention to you.  A decent GPA, a bunch of activities and a couple of paid positions as well as good grades in the correct classes (Fellow Michiganders, EECS 381 with Kieras.  If you have to murder the rest of the waitlist to get in, DO IT.  Massive prerequisite for Google and I learned more about programming from that class than the rest of school)

*Yeah, that is in no way a bubble. [/Sarcasm]
 
2013-08-02 10:22:30 PM

KrispyKritter: revrendjim: It matters, but only in broad categories. There is the upper tier: Stanford, Harvard, MIT, etc, and that will get noticed on a resume. Then there is Generic State, which is what most applicants will have, and that's just fine. And then there are the poor bastards with degrees from non-regionally accredited for-profits. Those applications go in the trash.

are you still bitter about finding out your credits from ITT Tech Institute won't transfer to County College?


It's funny but I have seen a lot of students transferring to Boise State that were seriously pissed that their ITT credits they paid thousands of dollars for were worthless. We won't even look at them
 
2013-08-02 10:23:24 PM

dantheman195: All colleges are "for profits" in one way or another......


This.
 
TWX
2013-08-02 10:24:14 PM

Atomic Spunk: Thank goodness I gradurated from Harverd.


Heh.  My wife went to MIT and went over to Harvard for her easy classes.  She maintains that the hardest thing about Harvard is getting in.  Once you're there, pfft...

SouthParkCon: As a former Apollo Group IT employee it is going to be fun watching that place go down in flames over the next few years....


I wish that I could agree with you, but it's my experience that soul-sucking mega-organizations don't go away and don't really miss people when they're gone.  It took me awhile to come around to this attitude, but no one where I work, including myself, is irreplaceable, especially if the higher-ups are willing to simply bring in contractors or will just change direction, or both, when faced with obstacles.

The only thing that'll bring Apollo Group and other for-profits down will be a change in how education is paid for, if such a change effectively bars students from using such loans to go to these schools.  Even then, all it'll take is for the school to react to the changes in such a way to now comply with the new laws.

In my opinion, these organizations are no better than "correspondence schools" of old, they just use a different medium by which to correspond with their "students".  Everything old is new again.

The scary part is that some people want to grow this model of education into the public school K-12 realm and are actively seeking and getting charter-school status in order to take public funds for their "education".
 
2013-08-02 10:24:50 PM
African-American and Latino students are underrepresented at the nation's 465 "most well-funded, selective four-year colleges and universities."

WTF?! Went to university in the UK so maybe not as many schools but anything outside the Top 10 was nothing to write home about.... How the fark are there 425 schools that are notably more well funded or selective? That's coming up for 10 schools per state!
 
2013-08-02 10:26:26 PM
Although this is definitely changing, the vast majority of people with college degrees in my city graduated from a local college.  As such, it has been my observation that out-of-state degrees carry a little more weight, particularly if that person was originally from here.  It could be a sign that the person took the extra initiative to go away to school, has seen how life is lived elsewhere, might be a more independent thinker, but may also be committed to family and their roots.
 
2013-08-02 10:27:01 PM
Screw college

Start you own business doing something or providing something useful

In a decade you will be way better off than your peers that went to college

In two decades you will be hiring your peers that went to college to work for you

You can impress them with your high school diploma, paid off house on a few acres, your muscle car collection

They can impress you with their college degree, mortgaged house, and mini van
 
2013-08-02 10:27:42 PM

SevenizGud: HempHead: SevenizGud: Harvard, Yale, and Princeton = A
MIT, Berkeley, etc. = B+
lower down = don't bother

Harvard+Yale=[0.tqn.com image 359x284]

Yeah, because president of the USA is a sure sign of lack of intelligence, amirite?

Oh, what's that? You are a tater tot cook at a bowling alley...okay, do go on. Oh, and you think you are smarter than President George W. Bush. Mmmmkay.

Nice debunked photoshp btw


Hey man you need to chill, just because that PhD you got in Liberal Arts from Harvard isn't working out as well as your buddy's BS in Mechanical Engineering from a lowly state school doesn't mean you need to get your panties in a twist
 
2013-08-02 10:29:36 PM
I used to work with an elementary school P.E. teacher who taught Spanish at University of Phoenix on the weekends. A three-day weekend course was worth three college credits. He knew it was a joke, but the paycheck wasn't. I asked him, "How are they supposed to learn a semester of Spanish in three days?"

"They're not."
 
2013-08-02 10:30:53 PM

SevenizGud: Harvard, Yale, and Princeton = A
MIT, Berkeley, etc. = B+
lower down = don't bother

MIT, Berkeley, etc. = B+


That may be the dumbest thing that I've read here in a long time.

And, from what I recall from your previous posts, I highly doubt that you have even an associate's in anything.

What I'm trying to say is ... bug off ... and let the adults talk.
 
2013-08-02 10:31:45 PM
Ug, seeing the trashy ghetto black people that go to U of Phoenix over in Milwaukee makes me shudder... if I owned a company anyone walking in with one of those degrees would most definitely go in the garbage. None of those students look serious about what they are doing, most of them look like they have no idea of what they got themselves into while they waddle in with their pants around their ankles in full gangsta mode, thinking they are still in high school or something... while they are going into debt working on their "Janitorial" degrees (Unless they got a free-ride just because they are black, which yes, lots of them do).

After U of Phoenix moved over into a building I was working in for a while, the main floor public bathrooms ended up being turned into make-shift DJ Booths and whoring stalls, plus smelled like Jean Nate and failure every time we walked in. I stopped using that floor for *anything* real fast.
 
2013-08-02 10:31:52 PM
Actually, it's more like you can take the kid out of the ghetto, but you can't take the ghetto out of the kid.
 
2013-08-02 10:32:09 PM

bdub77: See? It can be done. You can get a high paying job out of college, by following a few simple rules:

1) Be handsome.
2) Be white
3) Don't be not white


then there is this thing called Affirmative Action
 
2013-08-02 10:35:04 PM

The Evil That Lies In The Hearts Of Men: African-American and Latino students are underrepresented at the nation's 465 "most well-funded, selective four-year colleges and universities."

WTF?! Went to university in the UK so maybe not as many schools but anything outside the Top 10 was nothing to write home about.... How the fark are there 425 schools that are notably more well funded or selective? That's coming up for 10 schools per state!


The U.S. has 315 million people. We sort of need more than 10 universities. The numbers are really concentrated on the East Coast. My state has 3 major universities. The city of Boston alone has more than ten times that.
 
2013-08-02 10:37:14 PM
75% of high achieving low income students who don't go on to 'good' colleges are white, but this problem is rooted in race? What?
 
2013-08-02 10:37:30 PM

PyroStock: revrendjim: It matters, but only in broad categories. There is the upper tier: Stanford, Harvard, MIT, etc, and that will get noticed on a resume. Then there is Generic State, which is what most applicants will have, and that's just fine. And then there are the poor bastards with degrees from non-regionally accredited for-profits. Those applications go in the trash.

I have a generic state degree, but a company I worked for later paid for my Univ. of Phoenix MBA (this was before online classes).  I would assume employers would just ignore the Univ of Phoenix degree if they felt that way.  Would employers trash my resume and ignore everything else because it has "Univ. of Phoenix" on it and therefore I would be better off to not mention it?

//doesn't matter too much since I run my own business now, but I'm curious in case things suddenly turn upside down.


As someone swamped in resumes right now, yes. I would immediately trash it if I saw University of Phoenix. I assume anyone who went to a for-profit school makes poor decisions and values a cheap (intellectually, not financially) degree more than learning. In fact, I probably pay more attention to resumes with no or incomplete college than those with for-profits.

UofP may have been a great school once for all I know, but when I'm reviewing 130+ applications for one position, I have to triage quickly and efficiently. Id leave it off.
 
2013-08-02 10:39:04 PM

The Evil That Lies In The Hearts Of Men: African-American and Latino students are underrepresented at the nation's 465 "most well-funded, selective four-year colleges and universities."

WTF?! Went to university in the UK so maybe not as many schools but anything outside the Top 10 was nothing to write home about.... How the fark are there 425 schools that are notably more well funded or selective? That's coming up for 10 schools per state!


Let's see: Virginia: UVA, William & Mary, Virginia Tech, Hampton-Sydney, VMI, Sweet Briar, George Washington, George Mason, Mary Baldwin, George Mason, University of Richmond, Randolph Macon, Liberty, just off the top of my head...
 
2013-08-02 10:39:45 PM

ecmoRandomNumbers: My state has 3 major universities. The city of Boston alone has more than ten times that.


What godforsaken state do you live in?

bdub77: See? It can be done. You can get a high paying job out of college, by following a few simple rules:

1) Be handsome.
2) Be white
3) Don't be not white


It also helps if your family is already wealthy, then you can just drop into whatever high-paying position's waiting for you. But 1-3 are a huge help if you're not already fated to have money.
 
2013-08-02 10:40:00 PM
FTA: Carnevale blames white flight. Back in the '60s and '70s, Carnevale says, whites who lived downtown suddenly got housing money or G.I. bill benefits and fled to the suburbs with bigger houses and better schools.
"It's not surprising that once they moved to the better schools, 20, 30 years later, we have the same profile in colleges that we do. So that wave has simply moved beyond suburbs and into college," Carnevale says. "So you get this phenomenon now where the white population is declining, but the white representation in elite schools is increasing. So the selective colleges have become white privilege."


Racist POS. "Oh, it's all the white people's fault, not that city residents refuse to work together to make their schools and communities better places! BLAME WHITEY!!11!!" No, it couldn't possibly be because blacks and to some extent (primarily with females) Latinos have an attitude of failure, and mock students who try to succeed academically as "acting white." No, I'd argue that most schools don't prepare their students properly, and it's agonizingly bad by the time they hit high school. There's no excuse for students graduating without knowing how to write a proper essay in English, or how to do basic math. At my two-year college, the issue is compounded because advisers are clueless and don't recommend students take classes that prepare them for being in college. For example, I took a bio course that was basically AP biology my first semester. Because I took that class, I was fully prepared for Anatomy and Physiology, and got an A- and and A in each semester of it, while almost all of the students who jumped right into it got C's or had to repeat it, or dropped out all together.
 
pla
2013-08-02 10:42:37 PM
FTA: "Does it really matter where you go? [...] the Georgetown University Center on Education and the Workforce says that African-American and Latino students are underrepresented at the nation's 465 most well-funded, selective four-year colleges and universities."

Sorry folks, but as much as you might not like that, it has no actual relation to the original question. Whether or not blacks get into Harvard has nothing to do with the quality of a Harvard education over the same degree from Dillard.

Next.

/ Way to go on a race-trolling expedition, NPR!
 
2013-08-02 10:43:10 PM
Ann Arbor is a whore.

/obvious
 
2013-08-02 10:47:44 PM

catpuncher: 75% of high achieving low income students who don't go on to 'good' colleges are white, but this problem is rooted in race? What?


Also, keep in mind that by "high achieving", they mean "top half of their class". For some high schools, that translates to roughly "can count to 20 without taking off their shoes".

This isn't a race, or even a class problem. This is a poor primary education and lack of respect for knowledge problem. The reason upper classes do it better is because they've seen first hand that education gives you an edge. Lower classes don't have that direct "do well in school, make more money" experience, since anyone who does well enough to make anything of themselves gets the hell out as soon as possible and never looks back.
 
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