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(The New York Times)   Hey you remember when S&P more or less created the great financial crisis of '08 by offering ridiculously high bond ratings to crap mortgage bonds that Wall Street was peddling just to generate fees? Yeah, they're doing that again   (dealbook.nytimes.com) divider line 38
    More: Fail, bond credit rating, great financial crisis, mortgages, back-bond, subprime mortgage, fees, Wall Street, collective investment scheme  
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1191 clicks; posted to Business » on 01 Aug 2013 at 5:46 PM (51 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



38 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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2013-08-01 02:18:51 PM
Why not? They made billions off of it, and got us to pick up the tab. There is literally zero incentive for them not to do it again.
 
2013-08-01 02:25:13 PM

Aarontology: Why not? They made billions off of it, and got us to pick up the tab. There is literally zero incentive for them not to do it again.


Second amendment solutions?
 
2013-08-01 02:27:38 PM
NYT is on a roll lately
 
2013-08-01 02:27:47 PM
I just wish I was on the winning side of the scam.
 
2013-08-01 02:28:29 PM

dr_blasto: Aarontology: Why not? They made billions off of it, and got us to pick up the tab. There is literally zero incentive for them not to do it again.

Second amendment solutions?


I'd bet a fairly decent sum of money that if people showed up to a protest about this packing heat the way the tea partiers did a few years ago, a bunch of those protesters would get shot.
 
2013-08-01 02:51:00 PM

Aarontology: dr_blasto: Aarontology: Why not? They made billions off of it, and got us to pick up the tab. There is literally zero incentive for them not to do it again.

Second amendment solutions?

I'd bet a fairly decent sum of money that if people showed up to a protest about this packing heat the way the tea partiers did a few years ago, a bunch of those protesters would get shot.


Oh, no doubt at all. A "we came unarmed, THIS TIME" sign would likely be greeted with pepper spray at the bare minimum.
 
2013-08-01 02:51:09 PM
Since it didn't happen in 2008, can we haz guillotines on Wall Street and heads on pikes nao?
 
2013-08-01 02:51:58 PM
We have to protect our wealthy bankers--- after all, they are job creators and trickle down 'wealth' to the masses (the wealth is pee).
 
2013-08-01 03:39:40 PM
This just proves that regulation is bad, right libertarians?
 
2013-08-01 03:58:01 PM
FTA:

Standard & Poor's said the "methodology used and the conclusions drawn by The New York Times are flawed," though it declined to elaborate on what those flaws were.

Then f*ck off and eat sh*t, you assholes.
 
2013-08-01 04:00:00 PM

Rev.K: FTA:

Standard & Poor's said the "methodology used and the conclusions drawn by The New York Times are flawed," though it declined to elaborate on what those flaws were.

Then f*ck off and eat sh*t, you assholes.


Ahh Yes, the famed "Nuh-Uh" Defense
 
2013-08-01 04:08:14 PM
Just in time. I was wondering what was going to start the recession that happens every 7 years.
 
2013-08-01 04:25:24 PM
Seriously.. my financials portfolio is up 35% just this year! It's farking amazing.. I mean I figured this would happen all over again but I really expected to go long and see some return in maybe 2015 or so but this fast? If I wasn't a true blue capitalist I might be pissed off..
 
2013-08-01 04:53:13 PM
bookwag.com


xynix: Seriously.. my financials portfolio is up 35% just this year! It's farking amazing.. I mean I figured this would happen all over again but I really expected to go long and see some return in maybe 2015 or so but this fast? If I wasn't a true blue capitalist I might be pissed off..


When it's down 75% next year, you will be
 
2013-08-01 05:09:16 PM
How about no bailouts when this crashes, OK?
 
2013-08-01 05:55:21 PM
Quit whining about the high bond ratings. Everyone knows those are just 'puffery' and are not meant to be taken seriously.
 
2013-08-01 05:56:15 PM
Well, it doesn't matter how S&P rates anything because no one is supposed to be taking their ratings seriously.
 
2013-08-01 05:59:07 PM

Aarontology: Why not? They made billions off of it, and got us to pick up the tab. There is literally zero incentive for them not to do it again.


Plus, Obama won't be around to see the crash.  It will be Hilary or some random Rep.
 
2013-08-01 06:01:02 PM
It is happening again because none of the pricks that caused the 08 fiasco went to jail.
Maybe if the original guys were still in jail...............
 
2013-08-01 06:07:31 PM
Good thing we fixed that!
 
2013-08-01 06:29:28 PM
I AM SHOCKED.  ABSOLUTELY SHOCKED.

/giggle
/no, I'm not...
 
2013-08-01 06:36:51 PM

Rev.K: This just proves that regulation is bad, right libertarians?


Be mad at the douches that bailed them out. Libertarians would have let them crash out.
(Here comes the hate)
 
2013-08-01 06:42:48 PM
Doesn't saying "They're doing it again" seem to imply that there was a time when they DIDN'T?
 
2013-08-01 06:46:47 PM

Therion: Since it didn't happen in 2008, can we haz guillotines on Wall Street and heads on pikes nao?


I know this is facetious, but let's keep in mind that one of the great things about the American Revolution is that it was largely bloodless compared to most revolutions.  We don't want a repeat of the French Revolution.  I say this because there might be a time soon where it comes down to one or the other.
 
2013-08-01 06:53:01 PM
"It's silly to say that the market share doesn't matter," said Mr. Jacob, who is now retired. "This is not God's holy work. It's a business."

just adds fuel to the EU's argument to turn the industry into one without profit.
 
2013-08-01 06:58:07 PM

studs up: Rev.K: This just proves that regulation is bad, right libertarians?

Be mad at the douches that bailed them out. Libertarians would have let them crash out.
(Here comes the hate)


And the banks are that huge because of the government.
 
2013-08-01 07:10:31 PM

The local radio stations have been advertising (I think Quicken Loans):


The Amazing Five Mortgage!



A 30 year mortgage which starts with a super low rate for the first five years...and then  may adjust once a year after that...dont listen to that last part...

Farkers....
 
2013-08-01 07:19:28 PM

Rev.K: This just proves that regulation is bad, right libertarians?


Well it certainly shows that over regulation is part of the problem in this case. The only reason that S&P can get away with this is that federal law says that 1) you cant sell bonds without getting them rated and 2) only a tiny number of companies (s&p, moodys, fitch) are allowed to rate them. This has created a government backed oligarchy that gives s&p a disproportionately large influence on the market that would not exist but for the federal regulation of the market.
 
2013-08-01 07:55:26 PM

maxalt: I just wish I was on the winning side of the scam.


I'm making pretty damned good money off the S&P right now.  It's good to not be poor
 
2013-08-01 07:57:22 PM
...so they're giving the US its AAA rating back?
 
2013-08-01 08:02:24 PM

Talondel: Rev.K: This just proves that regulation is bad, right libertarians?

Well it certainly shows that over regulation is part of the problem in this case. The only reason that S&P can get away with this is that federal law says that 1) you cant sell bonds without getting them rated and 2) only a tiny number of companies (s&p, moodys, fitch) are allowed to rate them. This has created a government backed oligarchy that gives s&p a disproportionately large influence on the market that would not exist but for the federal regulation of the market.


The number has risen a bit in the past ten years. It is up to 10 companies now, up from three in 2002.
The http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Credit_Rating_Agency_Reform_Act_of_2006   helped also.
 
2013-08-01 08:19:01 PM
As a young person who's just starting to get money from a big boy job, I say let the crash happen in about 2 years. I would LOVE to pick up stocks at a repeat of 2008 prices.

/When I graduated, I asked for a co-sign on a loan to put into the market
//I got pen sets, inspirational rocks, and mediocre self-help books
 
2013-08-01 08:26:07 PM

Fizpez: A 30 year mortgage which starts with a super low rate for the first five years...and then  may adjust once a year after that...dont listen to that last part...


It's an ARM (adjustable rate mortgage). The rate can go up or down, but it's always a lower rate than a new fixed rate mortgage that you would buy in that same year. Putting that another way, you will never be able to refinance from an ARM into a lower rate fixed mortgage -- the ARM will always be lower.

You can gamble that a fixed price mortgage you buy now will be lower than the going rates in the future. The odds on that gamble are not good.
 
2013-08-01 09:19:01 PM
And y'all are still buying Facebook and Apple stock. Lulz.
 
2013-08-01 11:16:01 PM

Chagrin: Fizpez: A 30 year mortgage which starts with a super low rate for the first five years...and then  may adjust once a year after that...dont listen to that last part...

It's an ARM (adjustable rate mortgage). The rate can go up or down, but it's always a lower rate than a new fixed rate mortgage that you would buy in that same year. Putting that another way, you will never be able to refinance from an ARM into a lower rate fixed mortgage -- the ARM will always be lower.

You can gamble that a fixed price mortgage you buy now will be lower than the going rates in the future. The odds on that gamble are not good.


I know what an ARM is - its the same  mortgage option that got tens-of-thousands of people in trouble the last time theypushed them.  It's a GREAT option if you're moving on in less than 5 years - it's horrible when you buy a house at the max of your monthly payment on an ARM rate that realistically can only go up from where you are.
 
2013-08-02 07:20:07 AM

studs up: Rev.K: This just proves that regulation is bad, right libertarians?

Be mad at the douches that bailed them out. Libertarians would have let them crash out.
(Here comes the hate)


Whether or not that's true, we'd be alot worse of we didnt bail out the banks.

Dont be fooled: despite the breathless outrage of the far right and far left, TARP was primarily a bail out of main street. Wall street was just the most efficient and effective conduit to reduce the damage to the economy from the implosion of the housing bubble. Unemployment wouldve peaked far higher than 10% if more large banks failed.

Someday former presidents Bush and Obama will get together and agree that the best thing they did during their respective presidencies was how they handled the financial crisis.

Also, glad to see nobody read the article before commenting.
 
2013-08-02 03:39:02 PM

Debeo Summa Credo: studs up: Rev.K: This just proves that regulation is bad, right libertarians?

Be mad at the douches that bailed them out. Libertarians would have let them crash out.
(Here comes the hate)

Whether or not that's true, we'd be alot worse of we didnt bail out the banks.

Dont be fooled: despite the breathless outrage of the far right and far left, TARP was primarily a bail out of main street. Wall street was just the most efficient and effective conduit to reduce the damage to the economy from the implosion of the housing bubble. Unemployment wouldve peaked far higher than 10% if more large banks failed.

Someday former presidents Bush and Obama will get together and agree that the best thing they did during their respective presidencies was how they handled the financial crisis.

Also, glad to see nobody read the article before commenting.


TARP should have had strings attached. Its not surprising that Bush didn't have those strings, and it is very disappointing that Obama didn't try to attach them.

under Bush we had Sarbanes-Oxley as the regulatory response to Enron, and it was actually a pretty good dose of regulations.

under Obama we have the POS that is Dodd-Frank (which does very little outside of credit derivatives) and the JOBS Act, which blows a hole through the best parts of Sarbanes-Oxley.
 
2013-08-02 03:49:46 PM
Oh yay just in time for the next round of elections...
 
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