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(The Atlantic Wire)   Hillary Clinton was right about Barack Obama in 2008 and we probably should have elected her if we actually wanted to get stuff done   (theatlanticwire.com) divider line 81
    More: Obvious, Obama, Jedi Mind, American Love, Bill Clinton, James Carville, Maureen Dowd  
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1756 clicks; posted to Politics » on 01 Aug 2013 at 4:36 PM (48 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



81 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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2013-08-01 04:17:34 PM
Oh this crap again?  Please.  The man is more than his speeches.  And if you think the GOP would have gone easier on Hillary, or that she wouldn't have faced the same intransigence, you're really deluded.
 
2013-08-01 04:18:39 PM

Diogenes: And if you think the GOP would have gone easier on Hillary, or that she wouldn't have faced the same intransigence, you're really deluded.


^THIS
 
2013-08-01 04:24:37 PM
Because Hillary...

pizen: Diogenes: And if you think the GOP would have gone easier on Hillary, or that she wouldn't have faced the same intransigence, you're really deluded.

^THIS


Ah, already been said.  Fiddlesticks.
 
2013-08-01 04:28:28 PM
The biggest reason NOT to vote for Hillary is so that people like James Carville don't get anywhere near the White House ever again.

If you think the Lib cult of the Obama Messiah is bad, wait until the "Clintonistas" get back into power.
 
2013-08-01 04:31:39 PM
She would NEVER have been elected. The GOP had a smear campaign a mile wide and fathoms deep to launch against her. It would have been awful.
 
2013-08-01 04:32:48 PM
Empty suit week again?
 
2013-08-01 04:33:23 PM

themindiswatching: Empty suit week again?


Next week is "tirelessly working to destroy America" week
 
2013-08-01 04:35:03 PM

PC LOAD LETTER: She would NEVER have been elected. The GOP had a smear campaign a mile wide and fathoms deep to launch against her. It would have been awful.


4.bp.blogspot.com
 
2013-08-01 04:37:14 PM
The argument here is that Obama's mistake is that he thought the Republicans could be reasoned with.
 
2013-08-01 04:41:58 PM
Seems like the narrative this week is:

"Clintons don't like Obama anymore, say he's a total chode"
 
2013-08-01 04:42:02 PM

vernonFL: The biggest reason NOT to vote for Hillary is so that people like James Carville don't get anywhere near the White House ever again.

If you think the Lib cult of the Obama Messiah is bad, wait until the "Clintonistas" get back into power.


Can't wait!
 
2013-08-01 04:44:10 PM

PC LOAD LETTER: She would NEVER have been elected. The GOP had a smear campaign a mile wide and fathoms deep to launch against her. It would have been awful.


maybe in 2008, but people nowadays are more put off by republican "smear campaigns". She could win in 2016.
 
2013-08-01 04:44:12 PM
The problem was not the message the problem was the implementation, specifically Obama does not have and never did have the personality to do a Jedi mind-meld. Obama is the classic INTJ lawyer-type who goes into politics but then can't transcend his introversion. He fundamentally feels most comfortable relating to people via the world of ideas and is awkward at grasping the emotional moment (though he has go better at this as time has gone on). Basically, he had the right message but could never figure out how to get over himself. Welcome to being a human being.
 
2013-08-01 04:44:21 PM

PC LOAD LETTER: She would NEVER have been elected. The GOP had a smear campaign a mile wide and fathoms deep to launch against her. It would have been awful.


So it was Clinton-esqe then?
 
2013-08-01 04:44:55 PM
The temper tantrums and obstructionism from the right would be worse if they had to play with a girl.
 
2013-08-01 04:45:49 PM

Diogenes: Oh this crap again?  Please.  The man is more than his speeches.  And if you think the GOP would have gone easier on Hillary, or that she wouldn't have faced the same intransigence, you're really deluded.


GOP would have gone easier on her out of fear.

I swear they think the woman is a witch capable of placing hexes on their children.
 
2013-08-01 04:47:38 PM
Ambivalence:  She could win in 2016.

She can but I remain convinced that she won't run even though a lot of people want her too. Many people were convinced after the Lewinsky scandal that she would divorce Bill and she never did. She can go against the crowd. Her tenure at the State Dept. had all the marks of a person in a hurry. That's someone who is likely to retire, not go on to be President.
 
2013-08-01 04:49:05 PM

PC LOAD LETTER: themindiswatching: Empty suit week again?

Next week is "tirelessly working to destroy America" week


When do we circle around to "seekrit Muslin Marxist Kenyan Lizard-person" week again?

I wanna hit the sales before the stores get crowded.
 
2013-08-01 04:51:11 PM
Now that our precious little king is an obvious lame-duck failure, get used to these 'Hero Hillary' stories.

Seriously... GET USED to them.
 
2013-08-01 04:51:15 PM
Why do we have to talk about the same stupid article twice in one day?
 
2013-08-01 04:53:05 PM

vernonFL: If you think the Lib cult of the Obama Messiah is bad, wait until the "Clintonistas" get back into power.


I honestly can't tell if you're mocking right wingers or trolling everyone else.
 
2013-08-01 04:53:47 PM
OK, what the fark?

Another article saying basically the same thing (Hillary's attacks on Obama in 2008 were on the money!) from Politico was greened earlier.

It really, really feels like somebody just passed out some talking points.
 
2013-08-01 04:54:11 PM

worlddan: The problem was not the message the problem was the implementation, specifically Obama does not have and never did have the personality to do a Jedi mind-meld. Obama is the classic INTJ lawyer-type who goes into politics but then can't transcend his introversion. He fundamentally feels most comfortable relating to people via the world of ideas and is awkward at grasping the emotional moment (though he has go better at this as time has gone on). Basically, he had the right message but could never figure out how to get over himself. Welcome to being a human being.


What is this? Can someone bold the references?
 
2013-08-01 04:54:14 PM

clintster: PC LOAD LETTER: themindiswatching: Empty suit week again?

Next week is "tirelessly working to destroy America" week

When do we circle around to "seekrit Muslin Marxist Kenyan Lizard-person" week again?

I wanna hit the sales before the stores get crowded.


Last week of August. I'll be on vacation.
 
2013-08-01 04:54:21 PM

PC LOAD LETTER: She would NEVER have been elected. The GOP had a smear campaign a mile wide and fathoms deep to launch against her. It would have been awful.


Came here to say this.  She had no chance in 2008.  Even less chance in 2016.   The right can dream that they will run against her, but I'm guessing the Dem nominee in 2016 is someone most people have not heard of as of today.  Including me
 
2013-08-01 04:55:21 PM

themindiswatching: Empty suit week again?


does that coincide with libby socialist week or corporatist tool-of-wall-street week?
 
2013-08-01 05:00:57 PM

PC LOAD LETTER: She would NEVER have been elected. The GOP had a smear campaign a mile wide and fathoms deep to launch against her. It would have been awful.


I really think/hope we will never find out, but part of me is curious if Republicans have something big on the Clintons in their back pocket, or just think they do. Remember how they suddenly decided Hillary was the better candidate after Obama went from "also-ran who helps drain the Clinton war chest in the primaries" to "candidate with the most delagates"? Remember how conservative news sources kept suggesting Obama should drop Biden and add Hilary as his VP pick in 2012 (seriously; all the suggestions were coming from conservative media sources at the time)? I'm wondering if they've been sitting on an October Surprise they've been wanting to spring for 5 years or if they thought dragging out Whitewater again (like the Citizen's United video did) was TOTALLY going to turn public opinion against her. At least they have Benghazi to add to the routine if she runs this time around.
 
2013-08-01 05:00:58 PM
Gist of article: Stupid man world!

encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com
 
2013-08-01 05:07:26 PM
Yeah.....that would have made a difference to the old white men who are desperately trying to cling to power by farking up everything
 
2013-08-01 05:10:16 PM

netweavr: Diogenes: Oh this crap again?  Please.  The man is more than his speeches.  And if you think the GOP would have gone easier on Hillary, or that she wouldn't have faced the same intransigence, you're really deluded.

GOP would have gone easier on her out of fear.

I swear they think the woman is a witch capable of placing hexes on their children.


Scroll down a bit to the article where Texan wants Wendy Davis to pay for the new special session she caused them to call.
 
2013-08-01 05:10:19 PM

Diogenes: Oh this crap again?  Please.  The man is more than his speeches.  And if you think the GOP would have gone easier on Hillary, or that she wouldn't have faced the same intransigence, you're really deluded.


On health care I think Clinton would have moved much faster to use reconciliation to push the law through the Senate rather than let Max Baucus spend all summer pleading with the GOP in his committee, and as a result, we would have gotten a single payer system.
 
2013-08-01 05:13:29 PM
She'll get her chance.
 
2013-08-01 05:18:22 PM
Its a fluff propaganda piece...Yawn. Is anyone surprised by these articles? They are just beating the drum for 2016, its like all those derpfests "OMG! Did You Know Clinton is over 6,000,000 years Old!" or "Ted Cruz is America's Last Hope!" and anyone who takes them any more seriously than that is a moron. But it amuses me that people are getting bent out of shape over what is essentially the online equivalent of an infomercial. Especially one pushing a candidate that has yet to say they are going to run.
 
2013-08-01 05:24:04 PM
Actually, WE were right about Clinton in 2008 and that's why we didn't elect da b*tch.
 
2013-08-01 05:24:36 PM

netweavr: Diogenes: Oh this crap again?  Please.  The man is more than his speeches.  And if you think the GOP would have gone easier on Hillary, or that she wouldn't have faced the same intransigence, you're really deluded.

GOP would have gone easier on her out of fear.

I swear they think the woman is a witch capable of placing hexes on their children.


Fear of what? Fear of this battlestation?
 
2013-08-01 05:26:52 PM
hillary would have been a huge step up... anyway, no matter who wins in 2016, getting obama out will be a great consolation prize
 
2013-08-01 05:36:26 PM

thornhill: Diogenes: Oh this crap again?  Please.  The man is more than his speeches.  And if you think the GOP would have gone easier on Hillary, or that she wouldn't have faced the same intransigence, you're really deluded.

On health care I think Clinton would have moved much faster to use reconciliation to push the law through the Senate rather than let Max Baucus spend all summer pleading with the GOP in his committee, and as a result, we would have gotten a single payer system.


Maybe. She wouldn't have had the "angry black man" albatross. But maybe "biatchy woman" is just as bad. Or, she wouldn't have even tried to tackle health care at all. Kinda hard to say at this point.
 
2013-08-01 05:43:19 PM
She would have been a great President and was my choice over anyone else in the field, especially over McCain.

She knew enough about how Washington works and the importance of working with others and wouldn't have started her presidency by declaring "I won" when faced with a proposal by the GOP to cut taxes on the poor.
 
2013-08-01 05:49:21 PM
That does it, I'm not voting for Obama next time.
 
2013-08-01 05:52:22 PM

Evil High Priest: thornhill: Diogenes: Oh this crap again?  Please.  The man is more than his speeches.  And if you think the GOP would have gone easier on Hillary, or that she wouldn't have faced the same intransigence, you're really deluded.

On health care I think Clinton would have moved much faster to use reconciliation to push the law through the Senate rather than let Max Baucus spend all summer pleading with the GOP in his committee, and as a result, we would have gotten a single payer system.

Maybe. She wouldn't have had the "angry black man" albatross. But maybe "biatchy woman" is just as bad. Or, she wouldn't have even tried to tackle health care at all. Kinda hard to say at this point.


I think it's more that Obama's rhetoric of restoring bipartisanship and reaching across the aisle was so central to his platform that he was obligated to go through the motions. In fact, a lot of his actions during his first term seemed aimed at avoiding being accused of hypocrisy on that rhetoric.
 
2013-08-01 05:52:29 PM

Stone Meadow: vernonFL: The biggest reason NOT to vote for Hillary is so that people like James Carville don't get anywhere near the White House ever again.

If you think the Lib cult of the Obama Messiah is bad, wait until the "Clintonistas" get back into power.

Can't wait!


I find your hyperbole entertaining.

After all, Republicans have never EVER placed a president on a ridiculously undeserved pedestal.  Republicans have never taken the words of individual men as gospel truth, with no respect to the actual truthfulness of those words, followed these men blindly.  Republicans have never put forth a candidate with a cultish following that nodded their head vigorously at the exceptionally radical ideas proclaimed from a stage before a riotous audience.

You know what the difference between Obama and those other men is?  Obama knows he is not a messiah, never wanted to be that person.  He has tried to compromise, he has tried to reason, he has really tried to work with the other side.  He has never acted like his word is holy writ, whispered to him by some deity, infallible in every way.

I can understand why you people see the whole messiah thing though.  Anytime someone doesn't agree with you, you want to torture and crucify them.  Every messiah needs a good set of pharisees to work off of, amirite?
 
2013-08-01 05:55:39 PM
there's that famous progressive humor

HAY GUYS OBAMA WON"T WIN REELECTION IN 2016 HURRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR
 
2013-08-01 06:13:17 PM
Ok so to fix that mistake let's elect Hillary in 2016 and 2020 then follow that up with Elizabeth Warren in 2024, meanwhile the GOP will be gnashing and wailing that someone didn't put their cream corn through a blender first to get rid of any left over chunks, and screaming to keep the government out of their obamacare.
 
2013-08-01 06:13:40 PM
Oh please, the Republicans would simply have taken the chance to spend another $50 million appointing an "independent investigator" to sniff the Clintons' underwear, again, to finally answer the burning questions about when Hillary knew about the Clinton/Monica blowjobs, why she had Vince Foster murdered, how much money they made running drugs out of Mena airport, on cattle futures and White Water real estate investment.  It would be 1998 all over again, only without the great economy.
 
2013-08-01 06:21:43 PM

deeyablo: Stone Meadow: vernonFL: The biggest reason NOT to vote for Hillary is so that people like James Carville don't get anywhere near the White House ever again.

If you think the Lib cult of the Obama Messiah is bad, wait until the "Clintonistas" get back into power.

Can't wait!

I find your hyperbole entertaining.

After all, Republicans have never EVER placed a president on a ridiculously undeserved pedestal.  Republicans have never taken the words of individual men as gospel truth, with no respect to the actual truthfulness of those words, followed these men blindly.  Republicans have never put forth a candidate with a cultish following that nodded their head vigorously at the exceptionally radical ideas proclaimed from a stage before a riotous audience.

You know what the difference between Obama and those other men is?  Obama knows he is not a messiah, never wanted to be that person.  He has tried to compromise, he has tried to reason, he has really tried to work with the other side.  He has never acted like his word is holy writ, whispered to him by some deity, infallible in every way.

I can understand why you people see the whole messiah thing though.  Anytime someone doesn't agree with you, you want to torture and crucify them.  Every messiah needs a good set of pharisees to work off of, amirite?


LOL...wut? Dude, I'm as liberal as it gets and was just riffing off vernonFL's comment.

How liberal am I? I helped organize my local Earth Day in 1970.
How liberal am I? I voted for George McGovern in 1972.
How liberal am I? I voted for Jimmy Carter...TWICE.
How liberal am I? I served in the Peace Corps.
How liberal am I? I campaigned for Hillary in '08...and wrote her name in on the general.
How liberal am I? I voted for Obama in '12.
How liberal am I? I'm gonna campaign again for Hillary in '16.

How liberal am I? I CAN'T WAIT for the Clintonistas to take over the White House again. :^)
 
2013-08-01 06:24:42 PM
So the Democrats should run away from Obama?  Yea, that worked so well for Al Gore.

Obama is/was (speaking from the 2016 campaign standpoint) a fine effective president who handled a lot of difficult things quite well.  I wish he had done more but he is hardly a son i am dissapoint.  An 'Obama who?' campaign on the part of a Democratic candidate is playing into GOP hands. 

Obama won 2 elections and left the country in much better shape than he found it, do not run away from his record.
 
2013-08-01 06:31:38 PM

asmodeus224: So the Democrats should run away from Obama?  Yea, that worked so well for Al Gore.

Obama is/was (speaking from the 2016 campaign standpoint) a fine effective president who handled a lot of difficult things quite well.  I wish he had done more but he is hardly a son i am dissapoint.  An 'Obama who?' campaign on the part of a Democratic candidate is playing into GOP hands. 

Obama won 2 elections and left the country in much better shape than he found it, do not run away from his record.


AMEN!
 
2013-08-01 06:41:20 PM
But she's also suggested Obama could learn from the Clintons' experience in the '90s. "The Clintons have emerged stronger on the back end of their scandals," Dowd said. "America's ultimate survivors are now truly potent or dangerous, depending on how you look at it, because Americans love them Bridget Jones-style, just the way they are, warts and all."


So what did the Clinton's do in the 90's that moved things more to the left than Obama has? Obama passed Healthcare Reform, Clinton didn't. Everything big I can think Clinton did was things actually moving things to the right like NAFTA and DOMA.
 
2013-08-01 06:45:33 PM

Stone Meadow: How liberal am I? I campaigned for Hillary in '08...and wrote her name in on the general.


Yeah, you know that liberal hippie Hillary Clinton.
 
2013-08-01 07:15:35 PM

jigger: Stone Meadow: How liberal am I? I campaigned for Hillary in '08...and wrote her name in on the general.

Yeah, you know that liberal hippie Hillary Clinton.


Yep, she's a bit of a prude, personally, but she also championed progressive ideas: universal single-payer health care, gays in the military, etc. Moreover, she has matured and gotten wiser since 2008 by virtue of her SoS experience, and imo will make a better POTUS for it.
 
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