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(Opposing Views)   Judge who sold kids into juvenile facilities over minor offenses is now complaining that the prison sentence given to him was excessive   (opposingviews.com) divider line 153
    More: Ironic, Mark Ciavarella, prison sentences  
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10115 clicks; posted to Main » on 01 Aug 2013 at 1:13 PM (49 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



153 Comments   (+0 »)
   
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
2013-08-01 10:09:26 AM
If we had a justice tag, that would work here as well.
 
2013-08-01 10:14:31 AM
F*cking cry about it.
 
2013-08-01 10:17:19 AM
Wiki:
Ciavarella pleaded guilty on February 13, 2009, pursuant to a plea agreement, to federal charges of honest services fraud, wire fraud and tax evasion in connection with receiving $2.6 million in kickbacks from Robert Powell and Robert Mericle, the co-owner and builder respectively, of two private, for-profit juvenile facilities. In exchange for these kickbacks, Ciavarella sentenced children to extended stays in juvenile detention for offenses as minimal as mocking a principal on Myspace, trespassing in a vacant building, and shoplifting DVDs from Wal-mart.

Yeah, fark this guy.
 
2013-08-01 10:31:43 AM
Good.  Hope you get raped daily, you worthless piece of excrement.
 
2013-08-01 10:32:25 AM

Relatively Obscure: Wiki:
Ciavarella pleaded guilty on February 13, 2009, pursuant to a plea agreement, to federal charges of honest services fraud, wire fraud and tax evasion in connection with receiving $2.6 million in kickbacks from Robert Powell and Robert Mericle, the co-owner and builder respectively, of two private, for-profit juvenile facilities. In exchange for these kickbacks, Ciavarella sentenced children to extended stays in juvenile detention for offenses as minimal as mocking a principal on Myspace, trespassing in a vacant building, and shoplifting DVDs from Wal-mart.

Yeah, fark this guy.


BEHOLD THE WONDERS OF FOR PROFIT PRISONS
 
2013-08-01 10:33:49 AM
The first night's the toughest, no doubt about it. They march you in naked as the day you're born, fresh from a Bible reading, skin burning and half-blind from that delousing shiat they throw on you... and when they put you in that cell, when those bars slam home, that's when you know it's for real. Old life blown away in the blink of an eye... a long cold season in hell stretching out ahead...nothing left but all the time in the world to think about it. Most new fish come close to madness the first night. Somebody always breaks down crying. Happens every time.
 
2013-08-01 10:39:26 AM
For once, the justice system is working.  Fark YOU, Judge.  You, and the Bobs, and the horses you all rode in on.
 
2013-08-01 10:42:01 AM
This is how we know he was given a proper sentence.
 
2013-08-01 10:46:45 AM
Tough shiat.
 
2013-08-01 11:07:41 AM

Nina Haagen Dazs: This is how we know he was given a proper sentence.


This judge got 28 years. Another judge involved got 17.

The guys who paid them to ruin lives are likely to get less than two each, plus fines. The only crimes they were charged with were failing to report a felony, lying to a grand jury, and tax evasion.

Apparently bribing a federal judge isn't a crime, but knowing about the bride and not going to the police is.
 
2013-08-01 11:14:42 AM
Tell it to the judge

/*snicker*
 
2013-08-01 11:17:22 AM
If there's a contest for "saddest song played on world's tiniest violin", this is my entry.
 
2013-08-01 11:51:12 AM
This whole mess happened in my home town.

If that dirtbag was smart, he'd want to stay in jail...much safer.
 
2013-08-01 12:03:52 PM
fark that guy.

Time to be served in general population in a juvie prison, and may dog have mercy on his soul.
 
2013-08-01 12:25:13 PM

kingoomieiii: Nina Haagen Dazs: This is how we know he was given a proper sentence.

This judge got 28 years. Another judge involved got 17.

The guys who paid them to ruin lives are likely to get less than two each, plus fines. The only crimes they were charged with were failing to report a felony, lying to a grand jury, and tax evasion.

Apparently bribing a federal judge isn't a crime, but knowing about the bride and not going to the police is.


There's no greater sin in our culture than incarcerating Job CreatorsTM
 
2013-08-01 12:27:38 PM
It's a start.
 
2013-08-01 12:49:01 PM
can the appellate judge add time to the sentence? cuz that would be awesome
 
2013-08-01 12:49:02 PM
I concur with the judge's complaint. I believe that he should receive no prison time at all, and that instead he should be beaten so severely that his face is unrecognizable even to his closest family members, and then he should be put on public display as a warning to other corrupt government officials of what will happen should they decide to ruin lives for their own profit.
 
2013-08-01 12:57:35 PM
Sounds like a troublemaker. Throw him in solitary.
 
2013-08-01 01:14:45 PM
Fark this judge in the ass with a jackhammer for life.
 
2013-08-01 01:15:25 PM
If he thinks that's bad, wait till he gets to hell.
 
2013-08-01 01:16:29 PM
Can I pay someone to make his sentence longer?
 
2013-08-01 01:16:47 PM

Aarontology: eah, fark this guy.

BEHOLD THE WONDERS OF FOR PROFIT PRISONS



This is why prisons and healthcare should NOT be for-profit
 
2013-08-01 01:17:49 PM

Dimensio: I concur with the judge's complaint. I believe that he should receive no prison time at all, and that instead he should be beaten so severely that his face is unrecognizable even to his closest family members, and then he should be put on public display as a warning to other corrupt government officials of what will happen should they decide to ruin lives for their own profit.


they should have just shot him
 
2013-08-01 01:18:42 PM
I seriously had to read that like 3 times before I believed/processed it. Jeebus. I love that he's still defiant too..."unjustly branded as the `Kids for Cash' judge". Motherfarker if that's the worst thing you're ever called get down on your knees and suck the prosecutor's dick in appreciation.
 
2013-08-01 01:19:06 PM

BunkoSquad: The first night's the toughest, no doubt about it. They march you in naked as the day you're born, fresh from a Bible reading, skin burning and half-blind from that delousing shiat they throw on you... and when they put you in that cell, when those bars slam home, that's when you know it's for real. Old life blown away in the blink of an eye... a long cold season in hell stretching out ahead...nothing left but all the time in the world to think about it. Most new fish come close to madness the first night. Somebody always breaks down crying. Happens every time.


You sound like the voice of experience..
 
2013-08-01 01:19:31 PM

BunkoSquad: The first night's the toughest, no doubt about it. They march you in naked as the day you're born, fresh from a Bible reading, skin burning and half-blind from that delousing shiat they throw on you... and when they put you in that cell, when those bars slam home, that's when you know it's for real. Old life blown away in the blink of an eye... a long cold season in hell stretching out ahead...nothing left but all the time in the world to think about it. Most new fish come close to madness the first night. Somebody always breaks down crying. Happens every time.


You went to Jesus Camp, too?
 
2013-08-01 01:21:22 PM

Relatively Obscure: Wiki:
Ciavarella pleaded guilty on February 13, 2009, pursuant to a plea agreement, to federal charges of honest services fraud, wire fraud and tax evasion in connection with receiving $2.6 million in kickbacks from Robert Powell and Robert Mericle, the co-owner and builder respectively, of two private, for-profit juvenile facilities. In exchange for these kickbacks, Ciavarella sentenced children to extended stays in juvenile detention for offenses as minimal as mocking a principal on Myspace, trespassing in a vacant building, and shoplifting DVDs from Wal-mart.

Yeah, fark this guy.



Extended stays?  It's not like a farking hotel FFS.
 
2013-08-01 01:22:09 PM
It would be literally impossible to punish him in a way that would be excessive.

kingoomieiii: The guys who paid them to ruin lives are likely to get less than two each, plus fines.


It must be nice to have enough money to write laws.
 
2013-08-01 01:23:01 PM
Nah, let him out early.  I'm sure all those kids have seen the errors of their way and are now upstanding citizens.  Heck, they may even drop by to thank him for showing them the light.

images2.static-bluray.com
 
2013-08-01 01:25:00 PM

vudukungfu: Fark this judge in the ass with a jackhammer for life.


FTA : Ciavarella filled the beds of juvenile detention centers with first-time offenders, convicts of minor-crimes and children as young as 10 years old.

v015o.popscreen.com

"I didnt want to do it. I felt I owed it to them."
 
2013-08-01 01:25:45 PM

JohnCarter: BunkoSquad: The first night's the toughest, no doubt about it. They march you in naked as the day you're born, fresh from a Bible reading, skin burning and half-blind from that delousing shiat they throw on you... and when they put you in that cell, when those bars slam home, that's when you know it's for real. Old life blown away in the blink of an eye... a long cold season in hell stretching out ahead...nothing left but all the time in the world to think about it. Most new fish come close to madness the first night. Somebody always breaks down crying. Happens every time.

You sound like the voice of experience..


notsureifserious.jpg


/you know where that's from, right?
//right?
///RIGHT?
 
2013-08-01 01:26:38 PM

TomD9938: "I didnt want to do it. I felt I owed it to them."


I tip my hat, sir
 
2013-08-01 01:27:08 PM
It should be at least 1 year for each year a juvenile served because of his fraud. I could see an argument for some higher multiple.
 
2013-08-01 01:27:44 PM
Even Ayan Rand knew private policing was wrong.
 
2013-08-01 01:28:58 PM
Karma can be a biatch.
 
2013-08-01 01:29:29 PM
To counteract the sad, I highly recommend the link under the FTA for best roller coaster pics.

 SLIDESHOW WARNING

But some are pretty funny
 
2013-08-01 01:30:00 PM
What a dirt bag. They should sell all his assets and distribute the proceeds to his 4k victims. That way when he finally emerges from prison he will be destitute.

Considering he unjustly punished children for money, the loss of all his worldly assets would hit a guy like that hard.
 
2013-08-01 01:30:02 PM
How is it that he received 2.6 million but was ordered to pay back 1 million?
 
2013-08-01 01:30:07 PM
If i had my way this asshat would have gotten life with out parole.
 
2013-08-01 01:30:39 PM

sdd2000: It should be at least 1 year for each year a juvenile served because of his fraud. I could see an argument for some higher multiple.


He's going to die in prison anyway, so I don't see the need for a longer stay.  That said, I'm having a hard time coming up with a punishment that's severe enough to fit his crimes.
 
2013-08-01 01:32:03 PM
Fine let him out and every kid that got one of his harsh sentences can hit him with a bat 10 times.
 
2013-08-01 01:32:10 PM
Shoot the ex-judge once in the back of each knee. Try not to hit an artery. After the wounds have healed, shoot him again in the back of each knee. Repeat ad infinitum.

(I'm feeling merciful today.)
 
2013-08-01 01:32:48 PM

daveinsurgent: How is it that he received 2.6 million but was ordered to pay back 1 million?


Taxes? Uncle Sam wants to keep his take.
 
2013-08-01 01:33:24 PM

groppet: Fine let him out and every kid that got one of his harsh sentences can hit him with a bat 10 times.


One swing for every month.
 
2013-08-01 01:33:47 PM
These tears are delicious.
 
2013-08-01 01:33:52 PM

vudukungfu: Fark this judge in the ass with a jackhammer for life.


1.bp.blogspot.com
 
2013-08-01 01:35:09 PM

IrateShadow: sdd2000: It should be at least 1 year for each year a juvenile served because of his fraud. I could see an argument for some higher multiple.

He's going to die in prison anyway, so I don't see the need for a longer stay.  That said, I'm having a hard time coming up with a punishment that's severe enough to fit his crimes.


They usually let you out on your death bed if not a violent offender. Don't worry he will come down ill.
 
2013-08-01 01:35:36 PM
The sentence I would give him would involve excessive gasoline.
 
2013-08-01 01:35:55 PM

kingoomieiii: This judge got 28 years. Another judge involved got 17.

The guys who paid them to ruin lives are likely to get less than two each, plus fines. The only crimes they were charged with were failing to report a felony, lying to a grand jury, and tax evasion.


And I'm fine with that. The judges were the ones who abused their legal privileges. You can't blame the devil for everything sinners do.
 
2013-08-01 01:36:04 PM

Lord Schtupp: vudukungfu: Fark this judge in the ass with a jackhammer for life.


Good thing the USA is 110 volts.
 
2013-08-01 01:38:21 PM

jayhawk88: I seriously had to read that like 3 times before I believed/processed it. Jeebus. I love that he's still defiant too..."unjustly branded as the `Kids for Cash' judge". Motherfarker if that's the worst thing you're ever called get down on your knees and suck the prosecutor's dick in appreciation.


I think his mouth is going very busy for the next 28 years.  Over a quarter century of sucking inmate dick will leave him little time to reward the DA.
 
2013-08-01 01:38:32 PM

Intrepid00: Even Ayan Rand knew private policing was wrong.


I been Ayan Randed, nearly branded,
a communist 'cause i'm left handed,
if that's the hand you use... well never mind.

/can't help it.
 
2013-08-01 01:40:00 PM
You can almost hear him being dragged off to jail yelling "wait I am rich &  white, this is not supposed to happen to me"
 
2013-08-01 01:40:31 PM
1 year for each person he wrongfully incarcerated, so about 4000 years worth.
 
2013-08-01 01:41:02 PM
t2.gstatic.com
 
2013-08-01 01:41:17 PM

IrateShadow: sdd2000: It should be at least 1 year for each year a juvenile served because of his fraud. I could see an argument for some higher multiple.

He's going to die in prison anyway, so I don't see the need for a longer stay.  That said, I'm having a hard time coming up with a punishment that's severe enough to fit his crimes.


Necklacing?
 
2013-08-01 01:43:54 PM
Aarontology: F*cking cry about it.
 
2013-08-01 01:44:36 PM

ltdanman44: This is why prisons and healthcare should NOT be for-profit


Prisons, I'm right there with you on, but Healthcare? I hate to be the guy who walks into the DMV and yells out, "These are the people you want running your healthcare?", but damn. Every last thing the government gets involved in, costs a minimum of twice as much as it did when left up to private enterprise. Not to mention, you've got your cases of entrenchment, where pay is entirely divorced from performance. You know what they call the guy who graduates at the very bottom of his medical class? "Doctor." Now, compound that fact with the ponderous rate of service at your typical DMV, and the lack of accountability legislated into the current Law Enforcement model, and suddenly, you have doctors who take forever to give you the wrong treatment, and no recourse for you when your husband/ wife/ child dies.

The problem with the system is too many bureaucrats have entrenched their selves into it without adding any value whatsoever. Adding several layers of government bureaucrats can only serve to worsen it exponentially.
 
2013-08-01 01:46:20 PM
Give home the Griffen treatment from Berserk.
 
2013-08-01 01:46:40 PM
Life has a funny, funny way of sneaking up on youuuuu..
 
2013-08-01 01:47:18 PM
This is amazing. I would have bet everything that he would get off the hook with a slap on the wrist.

I hope it's really hard for him. I'm sure it will be after leaving all that money.

No parole for federal prison either, right?
 
2013-08-01 01:48:15 PM
That son of a biatch can rot in jail.
 
2013-08-01 01:49:44 PM

HAMMERTOE: You know what they call the guy who graduates at the very bottom of his medical class? "Doctor."


That's a stupid argument, because no matter how high the standard is for medical school graduates, it'll always be true.
 
2013-08-01 01:50:09 PM
I am begining to believe that the whole sociopath thing is much more prevalent than we think it is.
 
2013-08-01 01:51:17 PM
one of those kids commited suicide. I hope they rot in hell.
 
2013-08-01 01:54:17 PM
I see the two big mega prison corporations got off scott free
 
2013-08-01 01:54:32 PM
Hmm, this Judge would have gotten away with it if he wasn't so arrogant, the initial claims were dismissed and only came back up after the Judge got investigated for being a dick to co-workers.

It's probably still going on in other Courtrooms.
 
2013-08-01 01:55:43 PM

HAMMERTOE: ltdanman44: This is why prisons and healthcare should NOT be for-profit

Prisons, I'm right there with you on, but Healthcare? I hate to be the guy who walks into the DMV and yells out, "These are the people you want running your healthcare?", but damn. Every last thing the government gets involved in, costs a minimum of twice as much as it did when left up to private enterprise. Not to mention, you've got your cases of entrenchment, where pay is entirely divorced from performance. You know what they call the guy who graduates at the very bottom of his medical class? "Doctor." Now, compound that fact with the ponderous rate of service at your typical DMV, and the lack of accountability legislated into the current Law Enforcement model, and suddenly, you have doctors who take forever to give you the wrong treatment, and no recourse for you when your husband/ wife/ child dies.

The problem with the system is too many bureaucrats have entrenched their selves into it without adding any value whatsoever. Adding several layers of government bureaucrats can only serve to worsen it exponentially.


Not trying to buy into your threadjack, but medicare handles the oldest and the sickest, and does it for a fraction of the cost private insurers charge the young and healthy.

/I'll see your bureaucrat and raise you with CEOs, CIOs, CFOs, Pres, VPs, Board of directors and shareholders.
 
2013-08-01 01:55:47 PM
I hope that none of the kids that he sent away are related in any way to any of his jailmates.
 
2013-08-01 01:57:17 PM

HAMMERTOE: Every last thing the government gets involved in, costs a minimum of twice as much as it did when left up to private enterprise.


Canadians can do it, why can't you?

(PROTIP: Med system still free-market, but Med insurance is run by the govt.)
 
2013-08-01 02:00:16 PM

Private_Citizen: HAMMERTOE: ltdanman44: This is why prisons and healthcare should NOT be for-profit

Prisons, I'm right there with you on, but Healthcare? I hate to be the guy who walks into the DMV and yells out, "These are the people you want running your healthcare?", but damn. Every last thing the government gets involved in, costs a minimum of twice as much as it did when left up to private enterprise. Not to mention, you've got your cases of entrenchment, where pay is entirely divorced from performance. You know what they call the guy who graduates at the very bottom of his medical class? "Doctor." Now, compound that fact with the ponderous rate of service at your typical DMV, and the lack of accountability legislated into the current Law Enforcement model, and suddenly, you have doctors who take forever to give you the wrong treatment, and no recourse for you when your husband/ wife/ child dies.

The problem with the system is too many bureaucrats have entrenched their selves into it without adding any value whatsoever. Adding several layers of government bureaucrats can only serve to worsen it exponentially.

Not trying to buy into your threadjack, but medicare handles the oldest and the sickest, and does it for a fraction of the cost private insurers charge the young and healthy.

/I'll see your bureaucrat and raise you with CEOs, CIOs, CFOs, Pres, VPs, Board of directors and shareholders.


Also also, part of the reason this works is that everyone is part of the insurance pool.  Republicans suggested that there be an insurance requirement to help make the ACA more friendly to existing insurance companies as opposed to going single payer.  They hate this idea now.
 
2013-08-01 02:01:04 PM

This text is now purple: kingoomieiii: This judge got 28 years. Another judge involved got 17.

The guys who paid them to ruin lives are likely to get less than two each, plus fines. The only crimes they were charged with were failing to report a felony, lying to a grand jury, and tax evasion.

And I'm fine with that. The judges were the ones who abused their legal privileges. You can't blame the devil for everything sinners do.


Well, I would certainly like to keep these other asshats in prison until we can get the devil in front of a jury.
 
2013-08-01 02:01:07 PM

monoski: You can almost hear him being dragged off to jail yelling "wait I am rich &  white, this is not supposed to happen to me"


They agree
encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com
 
2013-08-01 02:01:10 PM

Private_Citizen: /I'll see your bureaucrat and raise you with CEOs, CIOs, CFOs, Pres, VPs, Board of directors and shareholders.


Exactly. You think government bureaucracies don't have those as well?
 
2013-08-01 02:01:15 PM

BunkoSquad: The first night's the toughest, no doubt about it. They march you in naked as the day you're born, fresh from a Bible reading, skin burning and half-blind from that delousing shiat they throw on you... and when they put you in that cell, when those bars slam home, that's when you know it's for real. Old life blown away in the blink of an eye... a long cold season in hell stretching out ahead...nothing left but all the time in the world to think about it. Most new fish come close to madness the first night. Somebody always breaks down crying. Happens every time.


And you got how many people to bite on this?

/apparently the sarcasm tag is out of the office today.

12/10
 
2013-08-01 02:02:44 PM

ongbok: I hope that none of the kids that he sent away are related in any way to any of his jailmates.


Karma would be that some of his jailmates are related to those kids and are aware of what he did to them.
 
2013-08-01 02:04:22 PM

funmonger: HAMMERTOE: Every last thing the government gets involved in, costs a minimum of twice as much as it did when left up to private enterprise.

Canadians can do it, why can't you?

(PROTIP: Med system still free-market, but Med insurance is run by the govt.)


HAMMERTOE is just saying the United States government is at least three times as incompetent as every other industrialized nation on the planet. To be fair, he might be right, given the heroic efforts Republicans have put in over the past thirty years to make it that way.

/my DMV's been a pretty good experience for me
 
2013-08-01 02:04:56 PM

HAMMERTOE: I hate to be the guy who walks into the DMV and yells out, "These are the people you want running your healthcare?", but damn. Every last thing the government gets involved in, costs a minimum of twice as much as it did when left up to private enterprise.


Um... No.

The US has the highest cost-per-citizen healthcare in the world, and that's even when including the tens of millions of our citizens that are not covered  Take the uninsured out of the equation and our per-person rates are even higher!  Every first-world country with nationalized healthcare has better outcomes than the US and pays far less per citizen.  In most cases, the programs are run by the government or not-for-profits with strict government oversight.

Here's the thing I guess a lot of people don't realize.  It's not "Government" that creates inefficiency at places like the DMV, it's bureaucracy.

Ever have to get an issue solved with Verizon? Comcast? A health insurance company?  They're no better or worse than the DMV.  They're the same.  Big bureaucracies are inefficient and suck.  There aren't a lot of ways to run a massive service without a massive bureaucracy.  We're stuck with them.

Based on experiences the world over, if we had nationalized healthcare like all the other first-world nations, our health care costs would plummet, and our outcomes would improve dramatically.
 
2013-08-01 02:06:05 PM
This guy is evil. Positively evil. There were a set of investigative articles in the Wilkes-Barre newspaper about the kids-to-jail controversy, before they knew it was a corrupt mpney-making gulag. It was along the lines of "gee, there's a lot of kids getting incarcerated for minor offenses. Maybe we're getting too much into sero tolerance".

He gave an article about how his parents were so strict but loving, and it was that sort of discipline that guided his decisions, so that kids could turn their lives around, because, gosh, he wished there was someone that that in his life when he was young.

This was, of course, while he was pocketing thousands per kid.

Like I said, evil. More evil than if he shot up a schoolroom of kids, because he farked up thousands of kids for money, and even now, shows no remorse.

/and yeah, he's getting off light
 
2013-08-01 02:06:32 PM

Mithiwithi: HAMMERTOE is just saying the United States government is at least three times as incompetent as every other industrialized nation on the planet.


He knows your flag is on the moon, right?
 
2013-08-01 02:07:13 PM

HAMMERTOE: Private_Citizen: /I'll see your bureaucrat and raise you with CEOs, CIOs, CFOs, Pres, VPs, Board of directors and shareholders.

Exactly. You think government bureaucracies don't have those as well?


Show me any government official who makes 106million a year ( CEO of United Healthcare Stephen Hemsley 2009). Heck, add up any hundred government offiicals pay.

Then keep in mind Mr. Hemsley was One of many people at that company with epic pay.
 
2013-08-01 02:09:26 PM

ringersol: Can I pay someone to make his sentence longer?


I'll chip in. And for a daily ass kicking.
 
2013-08-01 02:09:54 PM
He should be counting his blessings.  That kind of cartoonish supervilliany should be an immediate death sentence.
 
2013-08-01 02:10:24 PM
Before I can fully enjoy this story, I need to know where he is doing his time. It needs to be max or supermax. No farking minimum security country club. This bastard sold children for cash. He needs max gen pop just the same as any other human trafficker.
 
2013-08-01 02:10:38 PM

kingoomieiii: Nina Haagen Dazs: This is how we know he was given a proper sentence.

This judge got 28 years. Another judge involved got 17.

The guys who paid them to ruin lives are likely to get less than two each, plus fines. The only crimes they were charged with were failing to report a felony, lying to a grand jury, and tax evasion.

Apparently bribing a federal judge isn't a crime, but knowing about the bride and not going to the police is.


Maybe that's a point they'd have a harder time proving, so they went after the charges they could prove. Like Capone and his taxes.
 
2013-08-01 02:12:01 PM
Capital punishment for corrupt politicians and upper level government employees,
 
2013-08-01 02:12:32 PM

OtherLittleGuy: This guy is evil. Positively evil. There were a set of investigative articles in the Wilkes-Barre newspaper about the kids-to-jail controversy, before they knew it was a corrupt mpney-making gulag. It was along the lines of "gee, there's a lot of kids getting incarcerated for minor offenses. Maybe we're getting too much into sero tolerance".

He gave an article about how his parents were so strict but loving, and it was that sort of discipline that guided his decisions, so that kids could turn their lives around, because, gosh, he wished there was someone that that in his life when he was young.

This was, of course, while he was pocketing thousands per kid.

Like I said, evil. More evil than if he shot up a schoolroom of kids, because he farked up thousands of kids for money, and even now, shows no remorse.

/and yeah, he's getting off light


Again, between cops who hate libruls and authoritarian judges who take bribes to put innocent kids in jail there is zero reason to trust the legal system in Pennsylvania. Something is very, very wron in my state and I honestly don't know what I can do about it.
 
2013-08-01 02:12:58 PM

nytmare: kingoomieiii: Nina Haagen Dazs: This is how we know he was given a proper sentence.

This judge got 28 years. Another judge involved got 17.

The guys who paid them to ruin lives are likely to get less than two each, plus fines. The only crimes they were charged with were failing to report a felony, lying to a grand jury, and tax evasion.

Apparently bribing a federal judge isn't a crime, but knowing about the bride and not going to the police is.

Maybe that's a point they'd have a harder time proving, so they went after the charges they could prove. Like Capone and his taxes.


Or the process by which the bribes were paid was (and still is) perfectly legal. The only illegal part was the judge maximizing his payouts via extended sentences.

As in, this is a systematic problem, not a personal problem.
 
2013-08-01 02:15:50 PM

Dimensio: I concur with the judge's complaint. I believe that he should receive no prison time at all, and that instead he should be beaten so severely that his face is unrecognizable even to his closest family members, and then he should be put on public display as a warning to other corrupt government officials of what will happen should they decide to ruin lives for their own profit.


I wonder if this guy is still available.
 
2013-08-01 02:15:51 PM

BunkoSquad: The first night's the toughest, no doubt about it. They march you in naked as the day you're born, fresh from a Bible reading, skin burning and half-blind from that delousing shiat they throw on you... and when they put you in that cell, when those bars slam home, that's when you know it's for real. Old life blown away in the blink of an eye... a long cold season in hell stretching out ahead...nothing left but all the time in the world to think about it. Most new fish come close to madness the first night. Somebody always breaks down crying. Happens every time.


And the first words he hears are "So you're the MoFo who farked my little brother over. Welcome to Hell".
 
2013-08-01 02:16:09 PM
queerty-prodweb.s3.amazonaws.com
"Long arm of the law"
 
2013-08-01 02:17:44 PM
Last week, a federal appeals court said it would not reconsider a decision upholding the ruling.

www.iruntheinternet.com
 
2013-08-01 02:19:34 PM
he will forever be unjustly branded as the `Kids for Cash' judge,

i.qkme.me
 
2013-08-01 02:19:39 PM

HAMMERTOE: ltdanman44: This is why prisons and healthcare should NOT be for-profit

Prisons, I'm right there with you on, but Healthcare? I hate to be the guy who walks into the DMV and yells out, "These are the people you want running your healthcare?", but damn. Every last thing the government gets involved in, costs a minimum of twice as much as it did when left up to private enterprise. Not to mention, you've got your cases of entrenchment, where pay is entirely divorced from performance. You know what they call the guy who graduates at the very bottom of his medical class? "Doctor." Now, compound that fact with the ponderous rate of service at your typical DMV, and the lack of accountability legislated into the current Law Enforcement model, and suddenly, you have doctors who take forever to give you the wrong treatment, and no recourse for you when your husband/ wife/ child dies.

The problem with the system is too many bureaucrats have entrenched their selves into it without adding any value whatsoever. Adding several layers of government bureaucrats can only serve to worsen it exponentially.


The NHS in the UK works quite well and costs well under half per capita of healthcare in the US.
 
2013-08-01 02:21:46 PM
I don't see the problem. This is exactly how the free market should work in the absence of regulation. Money, incentives & all that.
 
2013-08-01 02:22:58 PM

addy2: ringersol: Can I pay someone to make his sentence longer?

I'll chip in. And for a daily ass kicking.


I'm down for $100 of that ... especially the ass kicking.
 
2013-08-01 02:25:00 PM

Raging Thespian: It's a start.


Yeah. Now I want to hear about the guys who bribed the judge up on trial for it and how they're going to revisit all the cases of the kids who were convicted by that judge and how they're going to reduce sentences and/or parole them where appropriate. Prolly not gonna happen though.
 
2013-08-01 02:25:52 PM
 Oh the poor dear. I  should play him a song. Now where did that violin go? I'm always misplacing that thing, so very small ya know.
 
2013-08-01 02:29:03 PM

This text is now purple: kingoomieiii: This judge got 28 years. Another judge involved got 17.

The guys who paid them to ruin lives are likely to get less than two each, plus fines. The only crimes they were charged with were failing to report a felony, lying to a grand jury, and tax evasion.

And I'm fine with that. The judges were the ones who abused their legal privileges. You can't blame the devil for everything sinners do.


When people are found guilty of soliciting murder-for-hire, they often do 5-10 years. Actually going through with the murder is usually life, or the death penalty.

By contrast, what they paid that judge to do put him away for almost three decades, and the guys get 18 months.

What really gets me is that the bribery wasn't even a crime, at least not one they were charged with. It became a crime when they successfully got the judge to commit a felony and then didn't report it. So, what, ATTEMPTING to bribe a judge isn't a crime? Because attempted bribery of police definitely is.
 
2013-08-01 02:30:40 PM
This story would be better if it had a werewolf, a train and some purple drank.
 
2013-08-01 02:34:32 PM

MrSplifferton: Give home the Griffen treatment from Berserk.


What if he has a behelit?
 
2013-08-01 02:37:16 PM

Dimensio: I concur with the judge's complaint. I believe that he should receive no prison time at all, and that instead he should be beaten so severely that his face is unrecognizable even to his closest family members, and then he should be put on public display as a warning to other corrupt government officials of what will happen should they decide to ruin lives for their own profit.



I believe you are too lenient.
 
2013-08-01 02:37:44 PM

RandomRandom: The US has the highest cost-per-citizen healthcare in the world, and that's even when including the tens of millions of our citizens that are not covered Take the uninsured out of the equation and our per-person rates are even higher! Every first-world country with nationalized healthcare has better outcomes than the US and pays far less per citizen. In most cases, the programs are run by the government or not-for-profits with strict government oversight.


What happens when you normalize for neonatal and end-of-life care? The US spends a huge amount on terminal disease treatment.
 
2013-08-01 02:42:02 PM
Let's do the math. Castro imprisoned what, 4? for 20 years. This guy imprisoned 4000, and they were juveniles. Something tells me that oh high and mighty judge didn't have to plead guilty to avoid the death penalty. I fail to understand why he should have such an option.
 
2013-08-01 02:44:00 PM

HAMMERTOE: ltdanman44: This is why prisons and healthcare should NOT be for-profit

Prisons, I'm right there with you on, but Healthcare? I hate to be the guy who walks into the DMV and yells out, "These are the people you want running your healthcare?", but damn. Every last thing the government gets involved in, costs a minimum of twice as much as it did when left up to private enterprise. Not to mention, you've got your cases of entrenchment, where pay is entirely divorced from performance. You know what they call the guy who graduates at the very bottom of his medical class? "Doctor." Now, compound that fact with the ponderous rate of service at your typical DMV, and the lack of accountability legislated into the current Law Enforcement model, and suddenly, you have doctors who take forever to give you the wrong treatment, and no recourse for you when your husband/ wife/ child dies.

The problem with the system is too many bureaucrats have entrenched their selves into it without adding any value whatsoever. Adding several layers of government bureaucrats can only serve to worsen it exponentially.


1 - I pay about the same in taxes as you. If there's a difference, it's negligible.

2 - I have access to literally unlimited health care, should I need it.

3 - There is less waste in our system than any for profit system in the world.

It doesn't even matter where I'm from. You are wrong. The big problem is that you aren't considering profit as a problem. That is money that should go into health care instead simply lines people's pockets. Long story short, you cannot have a for profit system that doesn't take away from actual healthcare delivered. That profit has to come from somewhere.
 
2013-08-01 02:44:39 PM
I suppose it's illegal to open up a Kickstarter to fund a charity which compensates inmates who "take a special interest" in him.
 
2013-08-01 02:45:27 PM

Weaver95: OtherLittleGuy: This guy is evil. Positively evil. There were a set of investigative articles in the Wilkes-Barre newspaper about the kids-to-jail controversy, before they knew it was a corrupt mpney-making gulag. It was along the lines of "gee, there's a lot of kids getting incarcerated for minor offenses. Maybe we're getting too much into sero tolerance".

He gave an article about how his parents were so strict but loving, and it was that sort of discipline that guided his decisions, so that kids could turn their lives around, because, gosh, he wished there was someone that that in his life when he was young.

This was, of course, while he was pocketing thousands per kid.

Like I said, evil. More evil than if he shot up a schoolroom of kids, because he farked up thousands of kids for money, and even now, shows no remorse.

/and yeah, he's getting off light

Again, between cops who hate libruls and authoritarian judges who take bribes to put innocent kids in jail there is zero reason to trust the legal system in Pennsylvania. Something is very, very wron in my state and I honestly don't know what I can do about it.


It's the same everywhere you go.

Cops need a good old fashioned uprising to put them back in their place. They serve the people, not the other way around.
 
2013-08-01 02:46:36 PM

Dimensio: I concur with the judge's complaint. I believe that he should receive no prison time at all, and that instead he should be beaten so severely that his face is unrecognizable even to his closest family members, and then he should be put on public display as a warning to other corrupt government officials of what will happen should they decide to ruin lives for their own profit.


All this and Bill O'Reilly too.
 
2013-08-01 02:53:53 PM
Mornin' Judge. Welcome to your first day here. It's breakfast time.
24.media.tumblr.com

/For lunch we're serving cockmeat sandwiches.
 
2013-08-01 02:58:47 PM
Boo hoo.
 
2013-08-01 03:02:03 PM
It's not excessive.  It's not long eough.  May he rot in his cell.
 
2013-08-01 03:03:07 PM

kingoomieiii: What really gets me is that the bribery wasn't even a crime, at least not one they were charged with. It became a crime when they successfully got the judge to commit a felony and then didn't report it. So, what, ATTEMPTING to bribe a judge isn't a crime? Because attempted bribery of police definitely is.


A bit off topic, but I'm reminded of an anecdote from one of the gangster shows I watch.  Apparently, John Gotti figured out pretty early that if the penalty for conviction was 25 to life, and the penalty for jury tampering is 5 years, there was absolutely no reason to not try and bribe a jury.

/Teflon, indeed
 
2013-08-01 03:07:24 PM

IrateShadow: He's going to die in prison anyway, so I don't see the need for a longer stay. That said, I'm having a hard time coming up with a punishment that's severe enough to fit his crimes.


I think putting him in the general prison population would be a nice start.
 
2013-08-01 03:09:45 PM
The dude ruined children's lives for money.  Justice would involve gallows.  He got off easy.
 
2013-08-01 03:16:58 PM
28 years for 4,000 kids = 2.5 days for each life farked up
 
2013-08-01 03:21:26 PM

HAMMERTOE: but damn. Every last thing the government gets involved in, costs a minimum of twice as much as it did when left up to private enterprise.



Give me examples and show your work.  Medicare is government run and its costs are far, far less than private sector.

Post office is a mess, ill concede that.  But i don't want the private sector charging a buck or more per stamp.  I just don't buy the argument that the government is so much worse than the private sector that it shouldn't even be considered as an option.  If there are problems in the system then lets make some changes to make it better.

I'll take occasional incompetence over a greedy C.E.O. anyday.
 
2013-08-01 03:23:56 PM

TomD9938: "I didnt want to do it. I felt I owed it to them."


Excellent.  Just excellent work TomD.
 
2013-08-01 03:24:00 PM

Dimensio: I concur with the judge's complaint. I believe that he should receive no prison time at all, and that instead he should be beaten so severely that his face is unrecognizable even to his closest family members, and then he should be put on public display as a warning to other corrupt government officials of what will happen should they decide to ruin lives for their own profit.


forum-img.pinside.com
 
2013-08-01 03:26:57 PM

yet_another_wumpus: Let's do the math. Castro imprisoned what, 4? for 20 years. This guy imprisoned 4000, and they were juveniles. Something tells me that oh high and mighty judge didn't have to plead guilty to avoid the death penalty. I fail to understand why he should have such an option.


No, Castro got "life in prison plus 1000 years, with no possibility of parole".

/sounds about right
 
2013-08-01 03:27:37 PM

Mister Buttons: Relatively Obscure: Wiki:
Ciavarella pleaded guilty on February 13, 2009, pursuant to a plea agreement, to federal charges of honest services fraud, wire fraud and tax evasion in connection with receiving $2.6 million in kickbacks from Robert Powell and Robert Mericle, the co-owner and builder respectively, of two private, for-profit juvenile facilities. In exchange for these kickbacks, Ciavarella sentenced children to extended stays in juvenile detention for offenses as minimal as mocking a principal on Myspace, trespassing in a vacant building, and shoplifting DVDs from Wal-mart.

Yeah, fark this guy.

Extended stays?  It's not like a farking hotel FFS.


Just because those two words have been used by the hotel industry doesn't make the term any less valid in this circumstance. What words would you suggest?
 
2013-08-01 03:40:45 PM
Never have I wished the American prison system on someone more than I do now.
 
2013-08-01 03:41:26 PM

kingoomieiii: This text is now purple: kingoomieiii: This judge got 28 years. Another judge involved got 17.

The guys who paid them to ruin lives are likely to get less than two each, plus fines. The only crimes they were charged with were failing to report a felony, lying to a grand jury, and tax evasion.

And I'm fine with that. The judges were the ones who abused their legal privileges. You can't blame the devil for everything sinners do.

When people are found guilty of soliciting murder-for-hire, they often do 5-10 years. Actually going through with the murder is usually life, or the death penalty.

By contrast, what they paid that judge to do put him away for almost three decades, and the guys get 18 months.

What really gets me is that the bribery wasn't even a crime, at least not one they were charged with. It became a crime when they successfully got the judge to commit a felony and then didn't report it. So, what, ATTEMPTING to bribe a judge isn't a crime? Because attempted bribery of police definitely is.


What about RICO? Charge one, charge 'em all for the same thing.
 
2013-08-01 03:47:46 PM

Dimensio: I concur with the judge's complaint. I believe that he should receive no prison time at all, and that instead he should be beaten so severely that his face is unrecognizable even to his closest family members, and then he should be put on public display as a warning to other corrupt government officials of what will happen should they decide to ruin lives for their own profit.


Approves...

download.xbox.com
 
2013-08-01 03:49:56 PM
Wait let me check....Nope still don't give a sh**.
 
2013-08-01 03:50:18 PM
As has been said, there is no penalty severe enough for this kind of corruption, so just execute him and be done with it.
 
2013-08-01 04:01:34 PM
Oh, I'm so sorry Judge, you'll just have to fill out this form in triplicate, make 2 copies each, one in ink, one in pencil, sign the bottom, get a signature from each of the kids you put in jail, in triplicate, 2 copies, then get 1 million likes on Facebook, bring all the paperwork back here, and we'll put it in this round file for processing.

Thank you. Have a nice day.

Next!
 
2013-08-01 04:11:15 PM

ltdanman44: Post office is a mess, ill concede that. But i don't want the private sector charging a buck or more per stamp. I just don't buy the argument that the government is so much worse than the private sector that it shouldn't even be considered as an option. If there are problems in the system then lets make some changes to make it better.


The usual counterargument is that the USPS is required to deliver to everyone in the USA for the same rate; if you opened up the field to true private sector competition, private firms would cherry pick the profitable routes and ignore the rest.  And of course there would numerous services that would deliver only junk mail and not bother with picking up mail from residences at all.
 
2013-08-01 04:13:12 PM
Have yourself some of that fine sodomy and gruel, ol' massa Ciavarella.  You c*nt
 
2013-08-01 04:16:55 PM

Relatively Obscure: Wiki:
Ciavarella pleaded guilty on February 13, 2009, pursuant to a plea agreement, to federal charges of honest services fraud, wire fraud and tax evasion in connection with receiving $2.6 million in kickbacks from Robert Powell and Robert Mericle, the co-owner and builder respectively, of two private, for-profit juvenile facilities. In exchange for these kickbacks, Ciavarella sentenced children to extended stays in juvenile detention for offenses as minimal as mocking a principal on Myspace, trespassing in a vacant building, and shoplifting DVDs from Wal-mart.

Yeah, fark this guy.


Hopefully that's what his cellmate Bubba will do for the next 28 years.
 
2013-08-01 04:17:28 PM

drunk_bouncnbaloruber: What about RICO? Charge one, charge 'em all for the same thing.


Waitaminute... this IS racketeering, why not?
 
2013-08-01 04:18:06 PM

TomD9938: vudukungfu: Fark this judge in the ass with a jackhammer for life.

FTA : Ciavarella filled the beds of juvenile detention centers with first-time offenders, convicts of minor-crimes and children as young as 10 years old.

[v015o.popscreen.com image 480x360]

"I didnt want to do it. I felt I owed it to them."


"Them" being of course the companies who bribed him, not the children who he abused. Put him in the same cell as a pedophile and it would be very hard to tell them apart!
 
2013-08-01 04:19:10 PM
It's rare to see Justice actually get served. I'm happy I got to see it in my lifetime.
 
2013-08-01 04:20:11 PM

Dimensio: I concur with the judge's complaint. I believe that he should receive no prison time at all, and that instead he should be beaten so severely that his face is unrecognizable even to his closest family members, and then he should be put on public display as a warning to other corrupt government officials of what will happen should they decide to ruin lives for their own profit.


I disagree.  I believe that he should be sentenced to serve time at least equal to those he falsely sentenced to prison.  From what I've read, that's far more than 28 years.

On the other hand, he's unlikely to live that long, so I'd add a lash for every day beyond median life expectancy for him.
 
2013-08-01 04:21:47 PM
I have trouble killing bugs let alone a person, but I would skin this Farker alive.
 
2013-08-01 04:23:17 PM

mooseyfate: It's rare to see Justice actually get served. I'm happy I got to see it in my lifetime.


Once in a lifetime.  You know, there's been societies that burned everything they could put a match to to the bare dirt over stuff like that.   :  /
 
2013-08-01 04:24:20 PM

Weaver95: Again, between cops who hate libruls and authoritarian judges who take bribes to put innocent kids in jail there is zero reason to trust the legal system in Pennsylvania. Something is very, very wron in my state and I honestly don't know what I can do about it.


Doesn't seem bad at all here in the Philly suburbs. Even the DMV is efficient and pleasant. But yeah, the rest of the state feels just like Kentucky did.
 
2013-08-01 04:36:58 PM
There is no sentence too long for any judge convicted of any crime.
 
2013-08-01 04:41:36 PM

MechaPyx: Raging Thespian: It's a start.

Yeah. Now I want to hear about the guys who bribed the judge up on trial for it and how they're going to revisit all the cases of the kids who were convicted by that judge and how they're going to reduce sentences and/or parole them where appropriate. Prolly not gonna happen though.


And Libertarians will have no problem with that.  The persons on the government side they hate, but in regards to the persons on the business side of it, it's just making a profit.
 
2013-08-01 06:19:04 PM

Dimensio: I concur with the judge's complaint. I believe that he should receive no prison time at all, and that instead he should be beaten so severely that his face is unrecognizable even to his closest family members, and then he should be put on public display as a warning to other corrupt government officials of what will happen should they decide to ruin lives for their own profit.


Is that Sharia or Chinese law?
BTW he should rot in hell. I have a friend in MD, who is dealing with a similar deal. His, Asperger diagnosed, kid freaked out in a mini-mart and has been under St. control since (2011).
 
2013-08-01 07:12:54 PM

Huck And Molly Ziegler: Shoot the ex-judge once in the back of each knee. Try not to hit an artery. After the wounds have healed, shoot him again in the back of each knee. Repeat ad infinitum.

(I'm feeling merciful today.)


I used to be a corrupt judge. Then I took an arrow in the knee.
 
2013-08-01 07:38:57 PM
In this case I favor execution.
 
2013-08-01 08:13:59 PM
private, for-profit juvenile facilities

Now there's something that simply should not exist. Every. Anywhere.

And there's no punishment too harsh for this asshole judge. If anyone ever did that to my kid, I'd be the one in prison after the retribution I'd bestow on them.
 
2013-08-01 08:22:59 PM
Ciaverella, 61, was convicted of racketeering charges for receiving $1 million in bribes from a constructor of juvenile detention facilities. The judge had violated individual rights for at least 4,000 cases between 2003 and 2008, denying defendants the right to counsel and the right to intelligently enter a plea.

Bad: selling kids to juvi.  WTFark: Selling them to juvi for less than $250 each.  Judge sold his decency CHEAP.
 
2013-08-01 08:30:48 PM

HAMMERTOE: Every last thing the government gets involved in, costs a minimum of twice as much as it did when left up to private enterprise.


Really? It costs you 23 cents or less to send a letter across the country in 2-3 days with UPS or FedEx?
 
2013-08-01 08:54:02 PM

ImpendingCynic: HAMMERTOE: Every last thing the government gets involved in, costs a minimum of twice as much as it did when left up to private enterprise.

Really? It costs you 23 cents or less to send a letter across the country in 2-3 days with UPS or FedEx?


No, but at least it'll actually get there and it won't be your fault if THEY lose it.
 
2013-08-01 10:53:56 PM

Odd Bird: TomD9938: "I didnt want to do it. I felt I owed it to them."

I tip my hat, sir


Did you get a free bowl of soup with that hat?
 
2013-08-02 01:35:43 AM
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/02/02/danny-williams-canadian-o_n_ 4 46481.html

Wait fellas - Hammerhead assures us all is penis unicorns in Syruptown.
 
2013-08-02 04:07:55 AM

Intrepid00: IrateShadow: sdd2000: It should be at least 1 year for each year a juvenile served because of his fraud. I could see an argument for some higher multiple.

He's going to die in prison anyway, so I don't see the need for a longer stay.  That said, I'm having a hard time coming up with a punishment that's severe enough to fit his crimes.

They usually let you out on your death bed if not a violent offender. Don't worry he will come down ill.


He'll get cancer and will be let out in exchange for a drilling contract for BP.
 
2013-08-02 01:33:37 PM

mooseyfate: ImpendingCynic: HAMMERTOE: Every last thing the government gets involved in, costs a minimum of twice as much as it did when left up to private enterprise.

Really? It costs you 23 cents or less to send a letter across the country in 2-3 days with UPS or FedEx?

No, but at least it'll actually get there and it won't be your fault if THEY lose it.


Libertarian logic, either claim it'll cost less when done by private enterprise, and when proven wrong, add "so what it if coasts more it'll still be better".  And this "it won't be your fault if they lose it" is total bullshait, that's the first thing a private company will claim to avoid having to compensate in any way.  Only a big business ass kisser would attempt to claim that.
 
2013-08-02 01:47:04 PM

Latinwolf: mooseyfate: ImpendingCynic: HAMMERTOE: Every last thing the government gets involved in, costs a minimum of twice as much as it did when left up to private enterprise.

Really? It costs you 23 cents or less to send a letter across the country in 2-3 days with UPS or FedEx?

No, but at least it'll actually get there and it won't be your fault if THEY lose it.

Libertarian logic, either claim it'll cost less when done by private enterprise, and when proven wrong, add "so what it if coasts more it'll still be better".  And this "it won't be your fault if they lose it" is total bullshait, that's the first thing a private company will claim to avoid having to compensate in any way.  Only a big business ass kisser would attempt to claim that.


Or I was just making a joke on Fark.com?

/but yes, I guess it HAS to be libertarian big business ass-kisser angle...
 
2013-08-02 05:03:18 PM
Sorry, this may be a stupid question...butI am confused on why so many petty "crimes" (making fun of a principal on Facebook, for one) were even being brought before a judge to be involved with. The judge is a farking monster, to be sure, but doesn't the issue of the police arresting kids for things that are not criminal need to be addressed as well?
 
2013-08-03 12:53:09 AM

Private_Citizen: HAMMERTOE: ltdanman44: This is why prisons and healthcare should NOT be for-profit

Prisons, I'm right there with you on, but Healthcare? I hate to be the guy who walks into the DMV and yells out, "These are the people you want running your healthcare?", but damn. Every last thing the government gets involved in, costs a minimum of twice as much as it did when left up to private enterprise. Not to mention, you've got your cases of entrenchment, where pay is entirely divorced from performance. You know what they call the guy who graduates at the very bottom of his medical class? "Doctor." Now, compound that fact with the ponderous rate of service at your typical DMV, and the lack of accountability legislated into the current Law Enforcement model, and suddenly, you have doctors who take forever to give you the wrong treatment, and no recourse for you when your husband/ wife/ child dies.

The problem with the system is too many bureaucrats have entrenched their selves into it without adding any value whatsoever. Adding several layers of government bureaucrats can only serve to worsen it exponentially.

Not trying to buy into your threadjack, but medicare handles the oldest and the sickest, and does it for a fraction of the cost private insurers charge the young and healthy.

/I'll see your bureaucrat and raise you with CEOs, CIOs, CFOs, Pres, VPs, Board of directors and shareholders.


Read up on cost-shifting before you credit Medicare for being efficient.

/hint: why is private health insurance so expensive?
 
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