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(Yahoo)   WWII remembrance cermonies are a little bit awkward in Ukraine since about half the country proudly fought with the Nazis against their hated Russian oppressors   (news.yahoo.com) divider line 45
    More: Interesting, WWII, Nazi SS, Ukraine, Nazis, Russians, Simon Wiesenthal Center, nazi war criminals, Red Army  
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2500 clicks; posted to Main » on 01 Aug 2013 at 9:50 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-08-01 09:55:43 AM
A young woman in one of my classes last year was from South Ossetia, and was there for the Russian/Ukrainian War that happened a few years ago. She stood up and told the class about how everything was nice and quiet and peaceful, until the Ukrainian tanks rolled down the main street at three in the morning and started blasting everything in sight. Gas stations, school buildings, shooting everyone who ran. She hated the Russians with a passion, but hated her own Government even more.
 
2013-08-01 09:59:20 AM
And Stalin was such a nice guy!
 
2013-08-01 10:00:32 AM
I've never heard of Their Russians. Where do they live?

/dat' spellin' r wrong
 
2013-08-01 10:01:54 AM
I notice how the article underplays the well documented assistance Ukrainian collaborators gave in the Holocaust and their role in oppressing ethnic Poles.
 
2013-08-01 10:02:01 AM
The main reason they joined the Nazis was the uniforms..they were much more stylish.  Chicks dig a nice uniform

GERMANS

img387.imageshack.us

RUSSIANS
www.soviet-power.com
 
2013-08-01 10:04:36 AM

JohnCarter: The main reason they joined the Nazis was the uniforms..they were much more stylish.  Chicks dig a nice uniform

GERMANS



RUSSIANS


The Nazi uniforms may have been Hugo Boss' best work. Seriously, that's epic men's fashion.
 
2013-08-01 10:06:46 AM
*their

/FTFY
 
2013-08-01 10:06:57 AM

Deathfrogg: A young woman in one of my classes last year was from South Ossetia, and was there for the Russian/Ukrainian War that happened a few years ago. She stood up and told the class about how everything was nice and quiet and peaceful, until the Ukrainian tanks rolled down the main street at three in the morning and started blasting everything in sight. Gas stations, school buildings, shooting everyone who ran. She hated the Russians with a passion, but hated her own Government even more.


South Ossetia is in Georgia. The war was between Georgia and Russia. Russia was the aggressor. No Ukrainians were involved and there were no reports ever of Georgia shooting on its own people. If this girl was from South Ossetia she either lying, has no idea what actually happen, or has the worst memory of anyone I've ever heard of.
 
2013-08-01 10:07:00 AM
Goddamn my coffee-starved brain. I meant to say Georgia instead of Ukraine. She considered the Russians to be pretty much complete Fascists. The issues are the same. Russia treats it's satellite nations as free-fire zones and piggy banks. The Russian Mafiosi types pretty much rule the economy there. The Ukrainians have no real allies to work with, they've made their own puddle of shiat to sit in.
 
2013-08-01 10:09:32 AM
long headline . rambling headline. misspelt headline.
check
check
check
 
2013-08-01 10:13:29 AM

Jsin82: Deathfrogg: A young woman in one of my classes last year was from South Ossetia, and was there for the Russian/Ukrainian War that happened a few years ago. She stood up and told the class about how everything was nice and quiet and peaceful, until the Ukrainian tanks rolled down the main street at three in the morning and started blasting everything in sight. Gas stations, school buildings, shooting everyone who ran. She hated the Russians with a passion, but hated her own Government even more.

South Ossetia is in Georgia. The war was between Georgia and Russia. Russia was the aggressor. No Ukrainians were involved and there were no reports ever of Georgia shooting on its own people. If this girl was from South Ossetia she either lying, has no idea what actually happen, or has the worst memory of anyone I've ever heard of.


Uh, the Georgian Army invaded the area pretty much unprovoked, after a local, non-binding election to explore the idea of a greater Ossetia merging with the north and seceding from both Georgia and Russia. The first indication anyone had of that little War was the Georgian Tanks rolling into town and opening fire on their own citizens.
 
2013-08-01 10:15:45 AM

Wolfmanjames: I notice how the article underplays the well documented assistance Ukrainian collaborators gave in the Holocaust and their role in oppressing ethnic Poles.


Does it also underplay the role Poland spent post-WWI in annexing large chunks of Ukraine's better farmland?

Because the theme in eastern Europe from 1910-1945 was "fark you, I've got mine".
 
2013-08-01 10:16:24 AM
Some Slavs, like the Poles, were anti-German because of long standing territorial conflicts, but many Slavic people were actually pro-Nazi.  It wasn't just the Ukrainians who were pro-Nazi.  Other Slavic nationalities were pro-Nazi as well, the Croats for example.

I read an account of the Eastern Front where soldiers from both sides were interviewed.  One Russian officer had been to Germany before the war.  He said that prior to the war he greatly admired the Germans for their culture, education and industry.  He went on to say that he couldn't believe what he saw when the Germans invaded the USSR, and didn't understand why they engaged in wanton destruction and brutality.

Fact is that the Slavs could have been natural allies for the Germans, but Hitler's mental racial fantasies turned them into bitter enemies.
 
2013-08-01 10:22:30 AM
Ok, what the bananas is going on here.  April Fools Day was five months ago, Subbies.
 
2013-08-01 10:22:40 AM
on the eastern front there were no good guys. both sides were bad.
 
2013-08-01 10:24:50 AM

Deathfrogg: Jsin82: Deathfrogg: A young woman in one of my classes last year was from South Ossetia, and was there for the Russian/Ukrainian War that happened a few years ago. She stood up and told the class about how everything was nice and quiet and peaceful, until the Ukrainian tanks rolled down the main street at three in the morning and started blasting everything in sight. Gas stations, school buildings, shooting everyone who ran. She hated the Russians with a passion, but hated her own Government even more.

South Ossetia is in Georgia. The war was between Georgia and Russia. Russia was the aggressor. No Ukrainians were involved and there were no reports ever of Georgia shooting on its own people. If this girl was from South Ossetia she either lying, has no idea what actually happen, or has the worst memory of anyone I've ever heard of.

Uh, the Georgian Army invaded the area pretty much unprovoked, after a local, non-binding election to explore the idea of a greater Ossetia merging with the north and seceding from both Georgia and Russia. The first indication anyone had of that little War was the Georgian Tanks rolling into town and opening fire on their own citizens.


South Ossettia is a breakway republic of Georgia. Of course they are going to side with Russia. That's like going to Texas and asking someone about the Iraq War went down.
 
2013-08-01 10:28:53 AM

GF named my left testicle thundercles: on the eastern front there were no good guys. both sides were bad.


So vote Republican.
 
2013-08-01 10:47:52 AM

Deathfrogg: Goddamn my coffee-starved brain. I meant to say Georgia instead of Ukraine. She considered the Russians to be pretty much complete Fascists. The issues are the same. Russia treats it's satellite nations as free-fire zones and piggy banks. The Russian Mafiosi types pretty much rule the economy there. The Ukrainians have no real allies to work with, they've made their own puddle of shiat to sit in.


Should have used drones. Nobody complains when drones randomly blow up people.
 
2013-08-01 10:48:00 AM

Fissile: Some Slavs, like the Poles, were anti-German because of long standing territorial conflicts, but many Slavic people were actually pro-Nazi.  It wasn't just the Ukrainians who were pro-Nazi.  Other Slavic nationalities were pro-Nazi as well, the Croats for example.

I read an account of the Eastern Front where soldiers from both sides were interviewed.  One Russian officer had been to Germany before the war.  He said that prior to the war he greatly admired the Germans for their culture, education and industry.  He went on to say that he couldn't believe what he saw when the Germans invaded the USSR, and didn't understand why they engaged in wanton destruction and brutality.

Fact is that the Slavs could have been natural allies for the Germans, but Hitler's mental racial fantasies turned them into bitter enemies.


Ja, Slavs were considered Untermenschen .
 
2013-08-01 10:53:37 AM

Fissile: Some Slavs, like the Poles, were anti-German because of long standing territorial conflicts, but many Slavic people were actually pro-Nazi.  It wasn't just the Ukrainians who were pro-Nazi.  Other Slavic nationalities were pro-Nazi as well, the Croats for example.

I read an account of the Eastern Front where soldiers from both sides were interviewed.  One Russian officer had been to Germany before the war.  He said that prior to the war he greatly admired the Germans for their culture, education and industry.  He went on to say that he couldn't believe what he saw when the Germans invaded the USSR, and didn't understand why they engaged in wanton destruction and brutality.

Fact is that the Slavs could have been natural allies for the Germans, but Hitler's mental racial fantasies turned them into bitter enemies.


I saw something like that. They interviewed this old man that lived in the Ukraine and hated the soviets and Stalin most of all. So when the Germans came rolling in they were excited thinkin they could join up and fight Stalin. Instead the SS starts robbing, raping, buring and killing. IIRC he ended up joing a Soviet partisan unit and fought the germans. He managed to live through it and at the end of the war he gets shipped off to a camp in Siberia.
 
2013-08-01 11:05:48 AM

JohnCarter: The main reason they joined the Nazis was the uniforms..they were much more stylish.  Chicks dig a nice uniform

GERMANS



RUSSIANS


Hugo Boss, baby.
 
2013-08-01 11:06:26 AM

groppet: Fissile: Some Slavs, like the Poles, were anti-German because of long standing territorial conflicts, but many Slavic people were actually pro-Nazi.  It wasn't just the Ukrainians who were pro-Nazi.  Other Slavic nationalities were pro-Nazi as well, the Croats for example.

I read an account of the Eastern Front where soldiers from both sides were interviewed.  One Russian officer had been to Germany before the war.  He said that prior to the war he greatly admired the Germans for their culture, education and industry.  He went on to say that he couldn't believe what he saw when the Germans invaded the USSR, and didn't understand why they engaged in wanton destruction and brutality.

Fact is that the Slavs could have been natural allies for the Germans, but Hitler's mental racial fantasies turned them into bitter enemies.

I saw something like that. They interviewed this old man that lived in the Ukraine and hated the soviets and Stalin most of all. So when the Germans came rolling in they were excited thinkin they could join up and fight Stalin. Instead the SS starts robbing, raping, buring and killing. IIRC he ended up joing a Soviet partisan unit and fought the germans. He managed to live through it and at the end of the war he gets shipped off to a camp in Siberia.


I remember a quote from a book on Guerilla warfare I once read that went something like "when the NAzis invaded the Ukraine, the people there came out and greated them with bread and salt and considerd them  liberators.  Because of the contempt and brutality they  were treated with by the Nazi officers , those same Ukrainians became the most effective and deadly anti-Nazi guerilla force of the war.
 
2013-08-01 11:09:37 AM

groppet: Fissile: Some Slavs, like the Poles, were anti-German because of long standing territorial conflicts, but many Slavic people were actually pro-Nazi.  It wasn't just the Ukrainians who were pro-Nazi.  Other Slavic nationalities were pro-Nazi as well, the Croats for example.

I read an account of the Eastern Front where soldiers from both sides were interviewed.  One Russian officer had been to Germany before the war.  He said that prior to the war he greatly admired the Germans for their culture, education and industry.  He went on to say that he couldn't believe what he saw when the Germans invaded the USSR, and didn't understand why they engaged in wanton destruction and brutality.

Fact is that the Slavs could have been natural allies for the Germans, but Hitler's mental racial fantasies turned them into bitter enemies.

I saw something like that. They interviewed this old man that lived in the Ukraine and hated the soviets and Stalin most of all. So when the Germans came rolling in they were excited thinkin they could join up and fight Stalin. Instead the SS starts robbing, raping, buring and killing. IIRC he ended up joing a Soviet partisan unit and fought the germans.  He managed to live through it and at the end of the war he gets shipped off to a camp in Siberia.


===========

Stalin was like that.  If you did him a favor, he repaid you with an all expense paid trip to a labor camp, or a bullet in the head, or both.  Come to think of it, that's exactly how many of the rich people I know behave.  Do something for them, and they're super nice while they are getting what they want.  The minute they don't need you, they turn on you like a ravenous wolf.
 
2013-08-01 11:35:48 AM

Gonz: JohnCarter: The main reason they joined the Nazis was the uniforms..they were much more stylish.  Chicks dig a nice uniform

GERMANS

RUSSIANS

The Nazi uniforms may have been Hugo Boss' best work. Seriously, that's epic men's fashion.


It's incredibly un-PC to say so. But yeah, those things are the Gold Standard.
 
2013-08-01 11:37:12 AM

Jsin82: Deathfrogg: A young woman in one of my classes last year was from South Ossetia, and was there for the Russian/Ukrainian War that happened a few years ago. She stood up and told the class about how everything was nice and quiet and peaceful, until the Ukrainian tanks rolled down the main street at three in the morning and started blasting everything in sight. Gas stations, school buildings, shooting everyone who ran. She hated the Russians with a passion, but hated her own Government even more.

South Ossetia is in Georgia. The war was between Georgia and Russia. Russia was the aggressor. No Ukrainians were involved and there were no reports ever of Georgia shooting on its own people. If this girl was from South Ossetia she either lying, has no idea what actually happen, or has the worst memory of anyone I've ever heard of.


I've seen videos of girls saying the Georgians fired first being held up as proof Georgia started it, because everyone knows little girls have the best strategic situational awareness of anyone.
 
2013-08-01 11:38:52 AM

GF named my left testicle thundercles: on the eastern front there were no good guys. both sides were bad.


There was definitely a lot of hoping for a scoreless tie with lots of casualties. Unfortunately, the Germans didn't QUITE have what it took to pull off a tie with the Russians with the rest of the world feeding the Red Army.
 
2013-08-01 11:39:50 AM

This text is now purple: Does it also underplay the role Poland spent post-WWI in annexing large chunks of Ukraine's better farmland?


Interwar Poland was a real dick.
 
2013-08-01 11:41:07 AM

Fissile: Stalin was like that.  If you did him a favor, he repaid you with an all expense paid trip to a labor camp, or a bullet in the head, or both.  Come to think of it, that's exactly how many of the rich people I know behave.  Do something for them, and they're super nice while they are getting what they want.  The minute they don't need you, they turn on you like a ravenous wolf.


www.ww2incolor.com
For those who don't know, this pic was taken after Stalin had murdered her parents.
 
2013-08-01 12:16:43 PM
South Ossetia is in Georgia. The war was between Georgia and Russia. Russia was the aggressor. No Ukrainians were involved and there were no reports ever of Georgia shooting on its own people. If this girl was from South Ossetia she either lying, has no idea what actually happen, or has the worst memory of anyone I've ever heard of.

It was indeed Georgia rather than Russia, but the Georgian tank rampage was caught on video. Bunch of farkwits on both sides there.
 
2013-08-01 12:17:44 PM

vygramul: It's incredibly un-PC to say so. But yeah, those things are the Gold Standard.


I don't know why, it's not like I'm saying "and therefore I approve of the Third Reich's policies towards Jews, Gypsies, and homosexuals". Those uniforms are phenomenal.

And you can't go wrong with primarily grey, black, and white, plus a red accent. That's a color scheme that always works. Grey suit, black shoes and belt, white shirt, red tie? Perfect. Summertime, white suit with a charcoal shirt? Again, it works. Can't go with the black shirt- too "Saturday Night Fever". Throw a red pocket square in there for a dash of color, and it's even better.
 
2013-08-01 12:23:51 PM

Gonz: vygramul: It's incredibly un-PC to say so. But yeah, those things are the Gold Standard.

I don't know why, it's not like I'm saying "and therefore I approve of the Third Reich's policies towards Jews, Gypsies, and homosexuals". Those uniforms are phenomenal.

And you can't go wrong with primarily grey, black, and white, plus a red accent. That's a color scheme that always works. Grey suit, black shoes and belt, white shirt, red tie? Perfect. Summertime, white suit with a charcoal shirt? Again, it works. Can't go with the black shirt- too "Saturday Night Fever". Throw a red pocket square in there for a dash of color, and it's even better.


Hey, Rommel being the "best-dressed" created more outrage than the Rolling Stone cover.
 
2013-08-01 12:28:17 PM
Stalin was just as bad as Hitler.
 
2013-08-01 12:37:38 PM

MilesTeg: Stalin was just as bad as Hitler.


=============

Stalin was an equal opportunity homicidal maniac.  Get in his way and you had a problem.  Hell, all it took was for him to believe that you might become a problem in the future...maybe.  Unlike Hitler, he didn't discriminate based on race, ethnicity, religion or national origin.
 
2013-08-01 12:41:42 PM

Fissile: MilesTeg: Stalin was just as bad as Hitler.

=============

Stalin was an equal opportunity homicidal maniac.  Get in his way and you had a problem.  Hell, all it took was for him to believe that you might become a problem in the future...maybe.  Unlike Hitler, he didn't discriminate based on race, ethnicity, religion or national origin.


mmm... hard to say that based on the Holodomor.
 
2013-08-01 01:31:05 PM
Rock and a hard place...
 
2013-08-01 01:36:29 PM

Deathfrogg: A young woman in one of my classes last year was from South Ossetia, and was there for the Russian/Ukrainian War that happened a few years ago. She stood up and told the class about how everything was nice and quiet and peaceful, until the Ukrainian tanks rolled down the main street at three in the morning and started blasting everything in sight. Gas stations, school buildings, shooting everyone who ran. She hated the Russians with a passion, but hated her own Government even more.


FYI: You are mistaken. That was was not with Ukrainians. It was with Georgians.
And don't believe everything you hear.
 
2013-08-01 03:50:37 PM
The eastern front was basically a massive pile of dead bodies by the end of the war. Draw a north-south line from Belgrade to say, Gdansk (Danzig) on the North Sea. Draw another line from somewhere on the eastern edge of the Black Sea, say Sochi, all the way up to St. Petersburg (Leningrad). If you lived anywhere between those two lines, you were basically screwed. If the Germans weren't killing you on their way east, the Soviets would end up killing you on their way west. It was either pick a side and try to survive, or run and hide until they'd all left. They were literally trying to choose between the lesser of two evils, so I have nothing but sympathy to anybody who got stuck in that mess.
 
2013-08-01 04:10:24 PM

phyrkrakr: The eastern front was basically a massive pile of dead bodies by the end of the war. Draw a north-south line from Belgrade to say, Gdansk (Danzig) on the North Sea. Draw another line from somewhere on the eastern edge of the Black Sea, say Sochi, all the way up to St. Petersburg (Leningrad). If you lived anywhere between those two lines, you were basically screwed. If the Soviets didn't kill you on the way west, and then if the Germans weren't killing you on their way east, the Soviets would end up killing you on their way back west. It was either pick a side and try to survive, or run and hide until they'd all left. They were literally trying to choose between the lesser of two evils, so I have nothing but sympathy to anybody who got stuck in that mess.


FTFY.
 
2013-08-01 05:03:02 PM
My grandparents and parents came from varied small villages in the Ukraine and hated Russians, Poles, Jews, and Germans.  Basically it was a 'every person for themselves' mentality, which was understandable given the times.  Decades later they still had strong trust issues with anyone not an ethnic Uke.

So glad I married outside the tribe....

Stalin was by far the worse evil going in the region.
 
2013-08-01 08:28:40 PM
Subby can't read, or is a Russian ultranationalist.  Where do you see "half of Ukrainians" in the article?  If another source, name it.

From a perusal of wikipedia:

80,000 Ua.s volunteered to fight alongside the Germans, while
more than 4.5 million served in the Soviet Red Army, and at least 250,000 were Soviet partisans.

Not a bad loyalty rate for a country Stalin had tried to exterminate through terror famine a decade before.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukrainian_collaborationism_with_the_Axi s_ powers
 
2013-08-01 08:34:57 PM

vygramul: Gonz: vygramul: It's incredibly un-PC to say so. But yeah, those things are the Gold Standard.

I don't know why, it's not like I'm saying "and therefore I approve of the Third Reich's policies towards Jews, Gypsies, and homosexuals". Those uniforms are phenomenal.

And you can't go wrong with primarily grey, black, and white, plus a red accent. That's a color scheme that always works. Grey suit, black shoes and belt, white shirt, red tie? Perfect. Summertime, white suit with a charcoal shirt? Again, it works. Can't go with the black shirt- too "Saturday Night Fever". Throw a red pocket square in there for a dash of color, and it's even better.

Hey, Rommel being the "best-dressed" created more outrage than the Rolling Stone cover.


But I could have done without the pictorial in Signal of Field Marshal Manstein in a speedo with his legs splayed.
 
2013-08-01 09:00:31 PM

BolshyGreatYarblocks: vygramul: Gonz: vygramul: It's incredibly un-PC to say so. But yeah, those things are the Gold Standard.

I don't know why, it's not like I'm saying "and therefore I approve of the Third Reich's policies towards Jews, Gypsies, and homosexuals". Those uniforms are phenomenal.

And you can't go wrong with primarily grey, black, and white, plus a red accent. That's a color scheme that always works. Grey suit, black shoes and belt, white shirt, red tie? Perfect. Summertime, white suit with a charcoal shirt? Again, it works. Can't go with the black shirt- too "Saturday Night Fever". Throw a red pocket square in there for a dash of color, and it's even better.

Hey, Rommel being the "best-dressed" created more outrage than the Rolling Stone cover.

But I could have done without the pictorial in Signal of Field Marshal Manstein in a speedo with his legs splayed.


That was the inspiration for Southern Comfort's "Whatever's Comfortable" campaign, wasn't it?
 
2013-08-02 03:30:13 AM
Stalin killed an estimated 14 million Ukrainians during the 1930s. Not hard to see why Ukrainians might welcome an army coming to topple the tyrant.

http://www.faminegenocide.com/resources/ukraine_famine.html
 
2013-08-02 06:05:44 AM
So not everyone chose the wrong side in WW2
 
2013-08-02 09:46:57 AM

oeneus: Stalin killed an estimated 14 million Ukrainians during the 1930s. Not hard to see why Ukrainians might welcome an army coming to topple the tyrant.

http://www.faminegenocide.com/resources/ukraine_famine.html


14 million? That's probably off by a factor of pi.
 
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