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(NPR) NewsFlash Snowden leaks out of secure area   (npr.org) divider line 152
    More: NewsFlash, Russia, Moscow's Sheremetyevo Airport, Moscow  
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6499 clicks; posted to Main » on 01 Aug 2013 at 9:12 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»


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152 Comments   (+0 »)
   
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
2013-08-01 08:55:42 AM
Ooh, I like this one
 
2013-08-01 09:13:45 AM
Hee Haw!
How long will he last?
 
2013-08-01 09:14:02 AM
Spilburg seen burning his script for The Terminal 2.
 
2013-08-01 09:14:41 AM
This one? Really?  The other headline was better.  Anyway, I'll repeat what I said there.

And now he can disappear into some little town near Krasnoyarsk and we'll never hear of  him again.


/if he's smart
 
2013-08-01 09:15:06 AM
So...he finally got that date with Anna?
 
2013-08-01 09:15:21 AM
encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com

Quitter Noob
 
2013-08-01 09:16:25 AM
Good luck bro. Crazy times we live in.
 
2013-08-01 09:16:33 AM
didn't we know this was happening though?

Good headline, doesn't need a News Flash
 
2013-08-01 09:16:54 AM
Better than my submission. I'll admit it.
 
2013-08-01 09:17:44 AM
I'm glad he's managed to find a country whose human rights record is a shining beacon to the rest of the world from which to continue his campaign
 
2013-08-01 09:18:29 AM
Well, good for him.

I guess.

/"Hi. I'm in ... Russia."
 
2013-08-01 09:19:00 AM

DammitIForgotMyLogin: I'm glad he's managed to find a country whose human rights record is a shining beacon to the rest of the world from which to continue his campaign


I'm not sure dying would help him very much.
 
2013-08-01 09:19:38 AM

RobertBruce: /if he's smart


If he's smart he'll go back to the airport tomorrow and hop on a plane to Venezuela.
 
2013-08-01 09:19:51 AM
siberiamissionary.org
or bust.
 
2013-08-01 09:20:30 AM
So wonder if he is gonna take up that red head spy chick on her offer?
 
2013-08-01 09:20:31 AM

AverageAmericanGuy: DammitIForgotMyLogin: I'm glad he's managed to find a country whose human rights record is a shining beacon to the rest of the world from which to continue his campaign

I'm not sure dying would help him very much.


as long as he doesn't anger Putin, he'll be OK.  Putin may snap at any minute though.
 
2013-08-01 09:20:56 AM

macadamnut: RobertBruce: /if he's smart

If he's smart he'll go back to the airport tomorrow and hop on a plane to Venezuela.


That would work except to get there he has to either lay off in a country that isn't offering asylum and hope they let him get back on a plane or risk crossing over western airspace where his flight will be met with some very friendly F16s
 
2013-08-01 09:21:48 AM

ManateeGag: AverageAmericanGuy: DammitIForgotMyLogin: I'm glad he's managed to find a country whose human rights record is a shining beacon to the rest of the world from which to continue his campaign

I'm not sure dying would help him very much.

as long as he doesn't anger Putin, he'll be OK.  Putin may snap at any minute though.


This Putin?
rt.com

Look at how gentle he looks!
 
2013-08-01 09:22:06 AM
More bad news for Obama, he doesn't get to kill Snowden.
 
2013-08-01 09:22:55 AM
Damn! I was planning on going down to Dulles Airport on Saturday and standing outside the international arrival gate while holding a sign with SNOWDEN written on it.
 
2013-08-01 09:23:09 AM
First thing I would do is look up a certain redhead spy.


i.imgur.com
 
2013-08-01 09:23:14 AM

AverageAmericanGuy: DammitIForgotMyLogin: I'm glad he's managed to find a country whose human rights record is a shining beacon to the rest of the world from which to continue his campaign

I'm not sure dying would help him very much.


And as he's talked about how he has given several people encrypted copies of everything he took when he left and instructions to release it all if anything happens to him, i'm sure that Russia has absolutely no motive to make him disappear.
 
2013-08-01 09:25:11 AM

AverageAmericanGuy: ManateeGag: AverageAmericanGuy: DammitIForgotMyLogin: I'm glad he's managed to find a country whose human rights record is a shining beacon to the rest of the world from which to continue his campaign

I'm not sure dying would help him very much.

as long as he doesn't anger Putin, he'll be OK.  Putin may snap at any minute though.

This Putin?
[rt.com image 690x388]

Look at how gentle he looks!


that looks like a St. Bernard.  He loves it because it brings him booze.
 
2013-08-01 09:26:09 AM
Still don't see why people care so much.
How stupid do you have to be to believe that someone somewhere isn't monitoring or at least recording some kind of information on you.
 
2013-08-01 09:26:28 AM

Krustofsky: So...he finally got that date with Anna?


the hot redheaded russian spy???
 
2013-08-01 09:27:07 AM
Maybe they sent him to.....*extra dramatic pause*.....The Charm School
 
2013-08-01 09:27:36 AM
What are the odds that he ticks the Russians off and ends up in a wonderful resort like Black Dolphin?
 
2013-08-01 09:29:19 AM

DammitIForgotMyLogin: I'm glad he's managed to find a country whose human rights record is a shining beacon to the rest of the world from which to continue his campaign


Again, it's hard for us to take the moral high road, what with our decade-plus-long history of "extraordinary rendition", illegal prisons, torturing of both domestic and foreign prisoners, and remote-control assassinations. We gave up that moral high road when we decided to act like the folks we claimed we were fighting.
 
2013-08-01 09:29:41 AM
"How stupid do you have to be to believe that someone somewhere isn't monitoring or at least recording some kind of information on you."

If so, I'm sure they are dying of boredom.
/that is my vengeance
 
2013-08-01 09:29:48 AM
I hope he makes it through this alive to settle down in some village somewhere. Good luck patriot

/say what you want, he has more balls than you
 
2013-08-01 09:31:08 AM

graeth: Still don't see why people care so much.
How stupid do you have to be to believe that someone somewhere isn't monitoring or at least recording some kind of information on you.


Better question is  how much of a juvenile narcissist do you have to be to believe anyone cares specifically about what you're up to?
 
2013-08-01 09:34:26 AM

FormlessOne: Again, it's hard for us to take the moral high road, what with our decade-plus-long history of "extraordinary rendition", illegal prisons, torturing of both domestic and foreign prisoners, and remote-control assassinations. We gave up that moral high road when we decided to act like the folks we claimed we were fighting.


Right.  So the US can shut up about any abuse anywhere, because we no longer have the right to criticize or stop abuses.

Rest of the world; do whatever the fark you want to whomever you want!  FormlessOne says we're not allowed to say anything about it any more.
 
2013-08-01 09:35:52 AM

FormlessOne: DammitIForgotMyLogin: I'm glad he's managed to find a country whose human rights record is a shining beacon to the rest of the world from which to continue his campaign

Again, it's hard for us to take the moral high road, what with our decade-plus-long history of "extraordinary rendition", illegal prisons, torturing of both domestic and foreign prisoners, and remote-control assassinations. We gave up that moral high road when we decided to act like the folks we claimed we were fighting.


Exactly! We're not exactly a beacon of hope and change.
 
2013-08-01 09:36:14 AM

graeth: Still don't see why people care so much.
How stupid do you have to be to believe that someone somewhere isn't monitoring or at least recording some kind of information on you.


That justifies its legality? Lets those who break the law, not criminals?

/keep hand waiving
//get out of my country
 
2013-08-01 09:36:31 AM
"has now left Moscow airport under the care of WikiLeaks' Sarah Harrison." Pic is hotter than her... but not by much

i.dailymail.co.uk
 
2013-08-01 09:37:27 AM
It's gonna be great watching the GOP try to be morally outraged by this!
 
2013-08-01 09:37:27 AM
static.guim.co.uk

Where's the XKeyscore greenlight?
 
2013-08-01 09:38:37 AM

Weaver95: It's gonna be great watching the GOP try to be morally outraged by this!


THe GOP is split about 50/50 about Snowden, as is the Dems.
 
2013-08-01 09:41:37 AM

tical: graeth: Still don't see why people care so much.
How stupid do you have to be to believe that someone somewhere isn't monitoring or at least recording some kind of information on you.

That justifies its legality? Lets those who break the law, not criminals?

/keep hand waiving
//get out of my country


It's not surprising to know that the U.S. was spying on other nations.
It's not surprising that the U.S. was spying on suspected terrorist cells, known sympathizers in both the U.S. and in other nations
It's not surprising to know that other nations have been spying on the U.S.
It is expected to know that the U.S. government makes it their duty to spy on suspected enemies and known enemies.

What does it mean when the U.S. government is openly spying on it's own citizens?  That the U.S. government thinks of it's own citizens as potential enemies is the answer that I have a hard time avoiding.
 
2013-08-01 09:43:36 AM

navanax: graeth: Still don't see why people care so much.
How stupid do you have to be to believe that someone somewhere isn't monitoring or at least recording some kind of information on you.

Better question is  how much of a juvenile narcissist do you have to be to believe anyone cares specifically about what you're up to?


It's not about me.  It's the the information can be misused in the political and industrial arenas.
 
2013-08-01 09:44:43 AM

Satanic_Hamster: FormlessOne: Again, it's hard for us to take the moral high road, what with our decade-plus-long history of "extraordinary rendition", illegal prisons, torturing of both domestic and foreign prisoners, and remote-control assassinations. We gave up that moral high road when we decided to act like the folks we claimed we were fighting.

Right.  So the US can shut up about any abuse anywhere, because we no longer have the right to criticize or stop abuses.

Rest of the world; do whatever the fark you want to whomever you want!  FormlessOne says we're not allowed to say anything about it any more.



Say what you want but don't be surprised when the rest of the world calls you hypocrites.
 
2013-08-01 09:45:12 AM
what if he isn't real?  what if its like that south park episode where the govt wants people to believe its involved in that thing that happened in NY in sept.?  what if this is the govt telling the world that they see it all, and have teamed up w Russia?  WHAT IF?!?!?
 
2013-08-01 09:46:46 AM

ModernPrimitive01: I hope he makes it through this alive to settle down in some village somewhere. Good luck patriot

/say what you want, he has more balls than you


If he had balls, he'd have stayed here and faced the music instead of running away like a little biatch.
 
2013-08-01 09:48:15 AM

ManateeGag: ModernPrimitive01: I hope he makes it through this alive to settle down in some village somewhere. Good luck patriot

/say what you want, he has more balls than you

If he had balls, he'd have stayed here and faced the music instead of running away like a little biatch.


It's not about having balls. WTF?
 
2013-08-01 09:49:54 AM
"He's leaking... out of his area!"

Subby, if that headline is an MST3K reference then you are definitely a hoopy frood.
 
2013-08-01 09:56:09 AM
As Snowden was leaving the Moscow airport, he muttered "this is for Trayvon".
 
2013-08-01 10:02:38 AM

uber humper: [static.guim.co.uk image 460x347]

Where's the XKeyscore greenlight?


Politics thread yesterday.  Like most sites Fark didn't think it was a front page worthy event.
 
2013-08-01 10:07:03 AM
Hopefully he assumes room temperature or ends up in US custody soon, along with his lawyers - preferably alive long enough to be shown as captured.

If I had any chance to turn him in, I would and with pleasure - as one would turn any common criminal.
 
2013-08-01 10:08:28 AM

MrSplifferton: uber humper: [static.guim.co.uk image 460x347]

Where's the XKeyscore greenlight?

Politics thread yesterday.  Like most sites Fark didn't think it was a front page worthy event.


Hahahaha. Most list like fark?  CNN and others is front page today

Don't think the most thorough domestic espionage program is not news?
 
2013-08-01 10:08:46 AM

Satanic_Hamster: FormlessOne: Again, it's hard for us to take the moral high road, what with our decade-plus-long history of "extraordinary rendition", illegal prisons, torturing of both domestic and foreign prisoners, and remote-control assassinations. We gave up that moral high road when we decided to act like the folks we claimed we were fighting.

Right.  So the US can shut up about any abuse anywhere, because we no longer have the right to criticize or stop abuses.

Rest of the world; do whatever the fark you want to whomever you want!  FormlessOne says we're not allowed to say anything about it any more.


I must be reading a different post by Formless One.  No one's saying you can't speak out against abuses or violations of human rights, all he's saying is that you should get off your U.S.A! U.S.A! high horse before doing it since no one's hands are completely clean in this arena.

Hypocrite! First get rid of the log in your own eye; then you will see well enough to deal with the speck in your friend's eye. - Matthew 7:5
 
2013-08-01 10:10:03 AM

sethstorm: Hopefully he assumes room temperature or ends up in US custody soon, along with his lawyers - preferably alive long enough to be shown as captured.

If I had any chance to turn him in, I would and with pleasure - as one would turn any common criminal.


Make sure to polish your jackboots first.  Your type is the only ones supporting this lying government.  What is there left to trust about the government?
 
2013-08-01 10:11:10 AM

uber humper: sethstorm: Hopefully he assumes room temperature or ends up in US custody soon, along with his lawyers - preferably alive long enough to be shown as captured.

If I had any chance to turn him in, I would and with pleasure - as one would turn any common criminal.

Make sure to polish your jackboots first.  Your type is the only ones supporting this lying government.  What is there left to trust about the government?


The 10,000 things it does honestly every day? Nah though, better make a jackboots crack to make sure everyone knows that you're above it all.
 
2013-08-01 10:14:09 AM

LasersHurt: uber humper: sethstorm: Hopefully he assumes room temperature or ends up in US custody soon, along with his lawyers - preferably alive long enough to be shown as captured.

If I had any chance to turn him in, I would and with pleasure - as one would turn any common criminal.

Make sure to polish your jackboots first.  Your type is the only ones supporting this lying government.  What is there left to trust about the government?

The 10,000 things it does honestly every day? Nah though, better make a jackboots crack to make sure everyone knows that you're above it all.


The problem is: we don't know when it's telling the truth an when it's lying.

Everyone is mostly honest.
 
2013-08-01 10:17:13 AM

LasersHurt: uber humper: sethstorm: Hopefully he assumes room temperature or ends up in US custody soon, along with his lawyers - preferably alive long enough to be shown as captured.

If I had any chance to turn him in, I would and with pleasure - as one would turn any common criminal.

Make sure to polish your jackboots first.  Your type is the only ones supporting this lying government.  What is there left to trust about the government?

The 10,000 things it does honestly every day? Nah though, better make a jackboots crack to make sure everyone knows that you're above it all.


Also, Like I said in a previous thread.  The only way for the government to regain trust is to do as the East Germans did with the Stasi.  Post the names of everyone involved in the newspaper - to forever be scorned.  The techs involved in this are not innocent. They built what will destroy this country.
 
2013-08-01 10:18:49 AM

ManateeGag: ModernPrimitive01: I hope he makes it through this alive to settle down in some village somewhere. Good luck patriot

/say what you want, he has more balls than you

If he had balls, he'd have stayed here and faced the music instead of running away like a little biatch.


I dunno. He sure got the world to sit up and pay attention. Seems to me that if his plan was to highlight the unethical and illegal behavior of the US government, his running away sure helped get that message out to the masses.
 
2013-08-01 10:19:03 AM

uber humper: They built what will destroy this country.


Dude, take a literal chill pill. Relax.
 
2013-08-01 10:23:26 AM
Best line from TFA:

 "In any case, I would like not to deal with such issues because it is like shearing a pig: There's lots of squealing and little fleece."
 
2013-08-01 10:24:50 AM

LasersHurt: uber humper: They built what will destroy this country.

Dude, take a literal chill pill. Relax.


Chill? The government has an absolute window into the lives of every citizen.  I'm not worried about someone watch me jack off.  I'm worried that the potential of political misuse is too great. It will be misused.  There is no doubt.

The country will eventually fail, everything does.  When we fall into tyranny, there is no chance to fight it, the tools are there.  The people who built this are the enemies of this country and it's people.
 
2013-08-01 10:25:08 AM

Faddy: Say what you want but don't be surprised when the rest of the world calls you hypocrites.


teenytinycornteeth: Satanic_Hamster: FormlessOne: Again, it's hard for us to take the moral high road, what with our decade-plus-long history of "extraordinary rendition", illegal prisons, torturing of both domestic and foreign prisoners, and remote-control assassinations. We gave up that moral high road when we decided to act like the folks we claimed we were fighting.

Right.  So the US can shut up about any abuse anywhere, because we no longer have the right to criticize or stop abuses.

Rest of the world; do whatever the fark you want to whomever you want!  FormlessOne says we're not allowed to say anything about it any more.

I must be reading a different post by Formless One.  No one's saying you can't speak out against abuses or violations of human rights, all he's saying is that you should get off your U.S.A! U.S.A! high horse before doing it since no one's hands are completely clean in this arena.

Hypocrite! First get rid of the log in your own eye; then you will see well enough to deal with the speck in your friend's eye. - Matthew 7:5


Right.

So when Americans (any American) is allowed to criticize massive human rights abuses, including murder by the state, can you let us know?  Maybe send out an email or post a facebook update?
 
2013-08-01 10:25:23 AM

uber humper: sethstorm: Hopefully he assumes room temperature or ends up in US custody soon, along with his lawyers - preferably alive long enough to be shown as captured.

If I had any chance to turn him in, I would and with pleasure - as one would turn any common criminal.

Make sure to polish your jackboots first.  Your type is the only ones supporting this lying government.  What is there left to trust about the government?


Jackboots?  If anyone's got them, it's been the gallery of rogues that Snowden has run into outside of the US.

Once he landed in HKSAR, he gave up any legitimacy.  To think of it, he lost it when he left Hawaii.  If he's lucky, he'll have Manning's fate.
 
2013-08-01 10:26:42 AM

sethstorm: Jackboots? If anyone's got them, it's been the gallery of rogues that Snowden has run into outside of the US.

Once he landed in HKSAR, he gave up any legitimacy. To think of it, he lost it when he left Hawaii. If he's lucky, he'll have Manning's fate


Where else would he go? England?
 
2013-08-01 10:27:01 AM

LasersHurt: uber humper: They built what will destroy this country.

Dude, take a literal chill pill. Relax.


He's not wrong about that.
 
2013-08-01 10:27:05 AM
Personally I think Snowden was gutsy to release what he did but also naive to think it would bring any significant change.  If the public were interested in privacy and the gross overreach of the Constitution going on here we would be discussing charges for the violations involved, no matter how high on the chain this goes.  But you would have better luck having Palin's daughter win Dancing with the Stars than making any real impact with this.

/surprised he did not do this 8-12 months earlier and try to make this an election issue
 
2013-08-01 10:28:30 AM

sethstorm: uber humper: sethstorm: Hopefully he assumes room temperature or ends up in US custody soon, along with his lawyers - preferably alive long enough to be shown as captured.

If I had any chance to turn him in, I would and with pleasure - as one would turn any common criminal.

Make sure to polish your jackboots first.  Your type is the only ones supporting this lying government.  What is there left to trust about the government?

Jackboots?  If anyone's got them, it's been the gallery of rogues that Snowden has run into outside of the US.

Once he landed in HKSAR, he gave up any legitimacy.  To think of it, he lost it when he left Hawaii.  If he's lucky, he'll have Manning's fate.


What he goes does not invalidate this information he's releasing.  The government has acknowledged it to be true.
 
2013-08-01 10:28:52 AM

uber humper: LasersHurt: uber humper: They built what will destroy this country.

Dude, take a literal chill pill. Relax.

Chill? The government has an absolute window into the lives of every citizen.  I'm not worried about someone watch me jack off.  I'm worried that the potential of political misuse is too great. It will be misused.  There is no doubt.

The country will eventually fail, everything does.  When we fall into tyranny, there is no chance to fight it, the tools are there.  The people who built this are the enemies of this country and it's people.


I get that you're scared, but that's not proof of your dire predictions.
 
2013-08-01 10:29:16 AM

Weaver95: LasersHurt: uber humper: They built what will destroy this country.

Dude, take a literal chill pill. Relax.

He's not wrong about that.


Maybe you should stay away from this chill pills.
 
2013-08-01 10:29:52 AM

uber humper: LasersHurt: uber humper: They built what will destroy this country.

Dude, take a literal chill pill. Relax.

Chill? The government has an absolute window into the lives of every citizen.  I'm not worried about someone watch me jack off.  I'm worried that the potential of political misuse is too great. It will be misused.  There is no doubt.

The country will eventually fail, everything does.  When we fall into tyranny, there is no chance to fight it, the tools are there.  The people who built this are the enemies of this country and it's people.


The Alex Jones padded room is thataway -->
 
2013-08-01 10:30:01 AM

macadamnut: RobertBruce: /if he's smart

If he's smart he'll go back to the airport tomorrow and hop on a plane to Venezuela.


Where at least the weather is better.
 
2013-08-01 10:31:10 AM

LasersHurt: uber humper: LasersHurt: uber humper: They built what will destroy this country.

Dude, take a literal chill pill. Relax.

Chill? The government has an absolute window into the lives of every citizen.  I'm not worried about someone watch me jack off.  I'm worried that the potential of political misuse is too great. It will be misused.  There is no doubt.

The country will eventually fail, everything does.  When we fall into tyranny, there is no chance to fight it, the tools are there.  The people who built this are the enemies of this country and it's people.

I get that you're scared, but that's not proof of your dire predictions.


Not proof.  The country is becoming more and more of a police state, everyday. You can't deny that.  Terrorists are less of a threat.
 
2013-08-01 10:31:12 AM

Weaver95: LasersHurt: uber humper: They built what will destroy this country.

Dude, take a literal chill pill. Relax.

He's not wrong about that.


I disagree. I think it's ridiculous.
 
2013-08-01 10:33:10 AM

LasersHurt: Weaver95: LasersHurt: uber humper: They built what will destroy this country.

Dude, take a literal chill pill. Relax.

He's not wrong about that.

I disagree. I think it's ridiculous.


Look at the trajectory of this surveillance, what is next?  You think this is where it stops?  It will get more insidious.
 
2013-08-01 10:35:55 AM

uber humper: LasersHurt: uber humper: sethstorm: Hopefully he assumes room temperature or ends up in US custody soon, along with his lawyers - preferably alive long enough to be shown as captured.

If I had any chance to turn him in, I would and with pleasure - as one would turn any common criminal.

Make sure to polish your jackboots first.  Your type is the only ones supporting this lying government.  What is there left to trust about the government?

The 10,000 things it does honestly every day? Nah though, better make a jackboots crack to make sure everyone knows that you're above it all.

The problem is: we don't know when it's telling the truth an when it's lying.

Everyone is mostly honest.


LOL
 
2013-08-01 10:35:58 AM

uber humper: Look at the trajectory of this surveillance, what is next?  You think this is where it stops?  It will get more insidious.


Slippery slope is slippery, I get it. I simply still disagree. It's gone public. Scrutiny of the programs grow every day. I just really, really don't believe this will be what takes us down.
 
2013-08-01 10:36:03 AM

navanax: The Alex Jones padded room is thataway -->


You think I'm crazy?  Will you be supporting the government a few years from now when they have even more advanced tools?

It's crazy not to question leadership.
 
2013-08-01 10:36:31 AM
Predict he is found dead within 5 years...
 
2013-08-01 10:37:26 AM

uber humper: LasersHurt: uber humper: They built what will destroy this country.

Dude, take a literal chill pill. Relax.

Chill? The government has an absolute window into the lives of every citizen.  I'm not worried about someone watch me jack off.  I'm worried that the potential of political misuse is too great. It will be misused.  There is no doubt.

The country will eventually fail, everything does.  When we fall into tyranny, there is no chance to fight it, the tools are there.  The people who built this are the enemies of this country and it's people.


I don't think most people really give much thought to how badly this little spy system can be abused for petty political gain.
 
2013-08-01 10:39:33 AM

Satanic_Hamster: Faddy: Say what you want but don't be surprised when the rest of the world calls you hypocrites.

teenytinycornteeth: Satanic_Hamster: FormlessOne: Again, it's hard for us to take the moral high road, what with our decade-plus-long history of "extraordinary rendition", illegal prisons, torturing of both domestic and foreign prisoners, and remote-control assassinations. We gave up that moral high road when we decided to act like the folks we claimed we were fighting.

Right.  So the US can shut up about any abuse anywhere, because we no longer have the right to criticize or stop abuses.

Rest of the world; do whatever the fark you want to whomever you want!  FormlessOne says we're not allowed to say anything about it any more.

I must be reading a different post by Formless One.

No one's saying you can't speak out against abuses or violations of human rights, all he's saying is that you should get off your U.S.A! U.S.A! high horse before doing it since no one's hands are completely clean in this arena.

Hypocrite! First get rid of the log in your own eye; then you will see well enough to deal with the speck in your friend's eye. - Matthew 7:5

Right.

So when Americans (any American) is allowed to criticize massive human rights abuses, including murder by the state, can you let us know?  Maybe send out an email or post a facebook update?


Here let me help you by bolding the important parts.  Just know that when you stand around pointing and laughing at the insanity of these godless backward countries and their primitive, horrific ways of dealing with people you shouldn't be surprised to find them pointing right back.
 
2013-08-01 10:40:52 AM

Weaver95: I don't think most people really give much thought to how badly this little spy system can be abused for petty political gain.


Assuming full corruption, no oversight, and a brazen willingness to commit crimes. And that nobody will fight back. And that if something CAN be misused by breaking the law, we should not do it at all.

That line of logic is inherently flawed, though - unless you have a deep mistrust of Gun Shop Owners because they might break the law, violate their trust, and commit crimes.
 
2013-08-01 10:41:27 AM

LasersHurt: uber humper: Look at the trajectory of this surveillance, what is next?  You think this is where it stops?  It will get more insidious.

Slippery slope is slippery, I get it. I simply still disagree. It's gone public. Scrutiny of the programs grow every day. I just really, really don't believe this will be what takes us down.


If unchecked it will take us down.  To make whistleblowing a less severe crime would be a good start to rebuild trust.  So that when they do lie, there is better chance people will come forward

Without trust, there is nothing.

/"We protect whistleblowers" was just removed from change.gov
 
2013-08-01 10:42:23 AM

uber humper: /"We protect whistleblowers" was just removed from change.gov


To be fair, we no longer have a meaningful definition of "whistleblower." It means whatever the user wants, these days.
 
2013-08-01 10:42:54 AM

Weaver95: I don't think most people really give much thought to how badly this little spy system can be abused for petty political gain.


It's on the front page of every news outlet.

Damn, you're really starting sound like a bootlicker.
 
2013-08-01 10:44:19 AM

LasersHurt: uber humper: /"We protect whistleblowers" was just removed from change.gov

To be fair, we no longer have a meaningful definition of "whistleblower." It means whatever the user wants, these days.


Oh, is that it?

Do you think Snowden is a whistle blower?
 
2013-08-01 10:44:46 AM

uber humper: Damn, you're really starting sound like a bootlicker.


Can you stop with that stupid shiat? I can't take you seriously.
 
2013-08-01 10:45:30 AM

KellyX: Predict he is found dead within 5 years...


You're going with years?
 
2013-08-01 10:46:56 AM

LasersHurt: uber humper: Look at the trajectory of this surveillance, what is next?  You think this is where it stops?  It will get more insidious.

Slippery slope is slippery, I get it. I simply still disagree. It's gone public. Scrutiny of the programs grow every day. I just really, really don't believe this will be what takes us down.


It's what we don't hear about that bugs me. What else is out there? What are our buddies in the NSA cooking up at this moment? Given our countries history with programs like COINTELPRO and MKULTRA...yeah. It's a valid concern.
 
2013-08-01 10:48:26 AM

LasersHurt: Weaver95: I don't think most people really give much thought to how badly this little spy system can be abused for petty political gain.

Assuming full corruption, no oversight, and a brazen willingness to commit crimes. And that nobody will fight back. And that if something CAN be misused by breaking the law, we should not do it at all.

That line of logic is inherently flawed, though - unless you have a deep mistrust of Gun Shop Owners because they might break the law, violate their trust, and commit crimes.


No, I just remember reading about COINTELPRO and some other little tricks the fedgov has pulled over the years and would rather not give them the benefit of the doubt.
 
2013-08-01 10:49:28 AM

uber humper: Weaver95: I don't think most people really give much thought to how badly this little spy system can be abused for petty political gain.

It's on the front page of every news outlet.

Damn, you're really starting sound like a bootlicker.


You really don't pay much attention to history, do you?
 
2013-08-01 10:50:33 AM

LasersHurt: uber humper: Damn, you're really starting sound like a bootlicker.

Can you stop with that stupid shiat? I can't take you seriously.


I don't get it.  You are saying everything you can to discredit me who is questioning a lying government.

Do you support lying in government? Silly question, I know, but that is what you are doing.
 
2013-08-01 10:51:09 AM

Great Janitor: tical: graeth: Still don't see why people care so much.
How stupid do you have to be to believe that someone somewhere isn't monitoring or at least recording some kind of information on you.

That justifies its legality? Lets those who break the law, not criminals?

/keep hand waiving
//get out of my country

It's not surprising to know that the U.S. was spying on other nations.
It's not surprising that the U.S. was spying on suspected terrorist cells, known sympathizers in both the U.S. and in other nations
It's not surprising to know that other nations have been spying on the U.S.
It is expected to know that the U.S. government makes it their duty to spy on suspected enemies and known enemies.

What does it mean when the U.S. government is openly spying on it's own citizens?  That the U.S. government thinks of it's own citizens as potential enemies is the answer that I have a hard time avoiding.


The 9/11 attackers lived in this country for some time. It's obvious that we have enemies posing as legitimate Americans and they should be rooted out. It's not McCarthyism. We're not destroying people's lives. We're looking at phone records to save them.
 
2013-08-01 10:51:34 AM

uber humper: LasersHurt: uber humper: Damn, you're really starting sound like a bootlicker.

Can you stop with that stupid shiat? I can't take you seriously.

I don't get it.  You are saying everything you can to discredit me who is questioning a lying government.


You keep telling people about their jackboots, and calling them bootlickers. You are doing all of the damage to your credibility, not me.
 
2013-08-01 10:52:06 AM

navanax: graeth: Still don't see why people care so much.
How stupid do you have to be to believe that someone somewhere isn't monitoring or at least recording some kind of information on you.

Better question is  how much of a juvenile narcissist do you have to be to believe anyone cares specifically about what you're up to?


an even BETTER question is "why am i ok with sitting back and taking it like a champ?"

or how bout: "how far up my own ass can i shove my head to make the bad noises stop?"
 
2013-08-01 10:54:17 AM

Weaver95: uber humper: Weaver95: I don't think most people really give much thought to how badly this little spy system can be abused for petty political gain.

It's on the front page of every news outlet.

Damn, you're really starting sound like a bootlicker.

You really don't pay much attention to history, do you?


I think this is the beginning of a turnaround.  We just got to make sure it turns around. More and more people who talk about it the better off we are.  The more and more people who question the government, the better off we are. It is being talked about.  The media is doing their job.

History? Yea, I look at the rise and fall of tyrannical governments.  They all start with apathy, then the people eventually push back.
 
2013-08-01 10:55:27 AM

LasersHurt: uber humper: LasersHurt: uber humper: Damn, you're really starting sound like a bootlicker.

Can you stop with that stupid shiat? I can't take you seriously.

I don't get it.  You are saying everything you can to discredit me who is questioning a lying government.

You keep telling people about their jackboots, and calling them bootlickers. You are doing all of the damage to your credibility, not me.


Like Snowden has hurt his personal credibility but his info is solid?
 
2013-08-01 10:59:29 AM

uber humper: You keep telling people about their jackboots, and calling them bootlickers. You are doing all of the damage to your credibility, not me.

Like Snowden has hurt his personal credibility but his info is solid?


No, he did it for something important. You're punching yourself in the head in public to convince people to be as worried as you.

And don't get me entirely wrong, you generally seem to get it, or be on the cusp of getting it:

uber humper: I think this is the beginning of a turnaround.  We just got to make sure it turns around. More and more people who talk about it the better off we are.  The more and more people who question the government, the better off we are. It is being talked about.  The media is doing their job.


You recognize that the turnaround is beginning, the importance of people knowing about it, about wearing down apathy... Yet still think it's okay to project this dooming America, and okay to namecall anyone who disagrees.

Just be a little more reasonable, a little slower to start throwing out fearful rhetoric and name calling, and I'd have a lot less problems with what you say.
 
2013-08-01 11:04:08 AM

uber humper: It's on the front page of every news outlet.

Damn, you're really starting sound like a bootlicker.


Snowden is on the front page of every news outlet. Mass domestic spying and the literal outsourcing of national security seem to be less newsworthy than Snowden himself.
 
2013-08-01 11:04:35 AM

LasersHurt: You recognize that the turnaround is beginning, the importance of people knowing about it, about wearing down apathy... Yet still think it's okay to project this dooming America, and okay to namecall anyone who disagrees.

Just be a little more reasonable, a little slower to start throwing out fearful rhetoric and name calling, and I'd have a lot less problems with what you say


What will get you to the point that you believe the domestic spying is front page material?  You think it should be on page 7?
 
2013-08-01 11:05:38 AM

uber humper: LasersHurt: You recognize that the turnaround is beginning, the importance of people knowing about it, about wearing down apathy... Yet still think it's okay to project this dooming America, and okay to namecall anyone who disagrees.

Just be a little more reasonable, a little slower to start throwing out fearful rhetoric and name calling, and I'd have a lot less problems with what you say

What will get you to the point that you believe the domestic spying is front page material?  You think it should be on page 7?


Well now I don't even know what conversation we're having anymore.
 
2013-08-01 11:08:30 AM

Weaver95: LasersHurt: uber humper: They built what will destroy this country.

Dude, take a literal chill pill. Relax.

He's not wrong about that.


Seems unfair. It's not like it's the fault of the techs who had the knowledge to put these systems together... they were just following ord<*ERROR 1945 GODWIN FILTER ACTIVE*>
 
2013-08-01 11:11:21 AM

LasersHurt: uber humper: LasersHurt: You recognize that the turnaround is beginning, the importance of people knowing about it, about wearing down apathy... Yet still think it's okay to project this dooming America, and okay to namecall anyone who disagrees.

Just be a little more reasonable, a little slower to start throwing out fearful rhetoric and name calling, and I'd have a lot less problems with what you say

What will get you to the point that you believe the domestic spying is front page material?  You think it should be on page 7?

Well now I don't even know what conversation we're having anymore.


Way back, we started this conversation when I asked why this XKeystoke was not on front page, you said it wasn't farkworthy.  Now it seems like you do believe it's important.
 
2013-08-01 11:12:22 AM

generallyso: uber humper: It's on the front page of every news outlet.

Damn, you're really starting sound like a bootlicker.

Snowden is on the front page of every news outlet. Mass domestic spying and the literal outsourcing of national security seem to be less newsworthy than Snowden himself.


Look closer.  XKeystroke is on the front of cnn, msnbc, et. al.
 
2013-08-01 11:13:20 AM

uber humper: Well now I don't even know what conversation we're having anymore.

Way back, we started this conversation when I asked why this XKeystoke was not on front page, you said it wasn't farkworthy.  Now it seems like you do believe it's important.


No, I didn't.
 
2013-08-01 11:17:24 AM

LasersHurt: uber humper: Well now I don't even know what conversation we're having anymore.

Way back, we started this conversation when I asked why this XKeystoke was not on front page, you said it wasn't farkworthy.  Now it seems like you do believe it's important.

No, I didn't.


Ok.  Got you mixed up with MrSplifferton a little upstream.

I gotta run.  Talk to you when the next revelation of government treating citizens like enemies comes up.
 
2013-08-01 11:22:43 AM

Wayne 985: Great Janitor: tical: graeth: Still don't see why people care so much.
How stupid do you have to be to believe that someone somewhere isn't monitoring or at least recording some kind of information on you.

That justifies its legality? Lets those who break the law, not criminals?

/keep hand waiving
//get out of my country

It's not surprising to know that the U.S. was spying on other nations.
It's not surprising that the U.S. was spying on suspected terrorist cells, known sympathizers in both the U.S. and in other nations
It's not surprising to know that other nations have been spying on the U.S.
It is expected to know that the U.S. government makes it their duty to spy on suspected enemies and known enemies.

What does it mean when the U.S. government is openly spying on it's own citizens?  That the U.S. government thinks of it's own citizens as potential enemies is the answer that I have a hard time avoiding.

The 9/11 attackers lived in this country for some time. It's obvious that we have enemies posing as legitimate Americans and they should be rooted out. It's not McCarthyism. We're not destroying people's lives. We're looking at phone records to save them.


They were not American citizens.  19 foreign nationals from countries that aren't exactly friendly to U.S. interests and home to terrorist cells that have attacked U.S. bases over seas would be justifiable for the U.S. to spy on them.

There is no farking reason why the U.S. government should be spying on the staff at my local McDonald's when they talk on the their cell phone.  Me, I have no criminal background, I haven't left the country since 2000, I'm an American citizen.  Spying on me is NOT going to save a single life, not going to stop any terrorist attack.  It is a waste of funds and times for the United States government to spy on me in the name of anti-terrorism, and not just me, but for 99% of the 300,000,000 American Citizens in the United States.
 
2013-08-01 11:24:45 AM

Great Janitor: There is no farking reason why the U.S. government should be spying on the staff at my local McDonald's when they talk on the their cell phone. Me, I have no criminal background, I haven't left the country since 2000, I'm an American citizen. Spying on me is NOT going to save a single life, not going to stop any terrorist attack. It is a waste of funds and times for the United States government to spy on me in the name of anti-terrorism, and not just me, but for 99% of the 300,000,000 American Citizens in the United States.


Spying on future (and current) politicians would interest some people, greatly.
 
2013-08-01 11:26:04 AM

Great Janitor: What does it mean when the U.S. government is openly spying on it's own citizens?  That the U.S. government thinks of it's own citizens as potential enemies is the answer that I have a hard time avoiding.


i823.photobucket.com
 
2013-08-01 11:30:06 AM

revrendjim: Great Janitor: What does it mean when the U.S. government is openly spying on it's own citizens?  That the U.S. government thinks of it's own citizens as potential enemies is the answer that I have a hard time avoiding.

[i823.photobucket.com image 300x168]


Didn't work, did it?

A few people dead does not compare to millions who would be subjected to tyrannical government with absolute surveillance of it's people. . We're fine now.  Not worth betting our future on.

Work on foreign policy, not domestic spying.
 
2013-08-01 11:30:42 AM

uber humper: Look closer. XKeystroke is on the front of cnn, msnbc, et. al.


Because it was announced yesterday. Where's PRISM? Where's Room 641A? Where's the outsourcing of national security to private for-profit businesses like Snowden's employer? Snowden is apparently more newsworthy.
 
2013-08-01 11:32:21 AM

generallyso: uber humper: Look closer. XKeystroke is on the front of cnn, msnbc, et. al.

Because it was announced yesterday. Where's PRISM? Where's Room 641A? Where's the outsourcing of national security to private for-profit businesses like Snowden's employer? Snowden is apparently more newsworthy.


Do your part. Keep talking about it. Keep the conversation going.
 
2013-08-01 11:36:56 AM

generallyso: uber humper: It's on the front page of every news outlet.

Damn, you're really starting sound like a bootlicker.

Snowden is on the front page of every news outlet. Mass domestic spying and the literal outsourcing of national security seem to be less newsworthy than Snowden himself.


It's interesting watching how the press twists the focus of the story around.
 
2013-08-01 11:38:18 AM
Personally, I think Snowden is a treacherous little weasel but the Bradley Manning verdict does make me appreciate a few things that put his actions in a different category (for me at least):

1. As a contractor, Snowden doesn't strike me as having quite the same ethical and legal obligations to go through the proper channels to divulge classified information (i.e., the Whistleblower Act) as Manning did. I don't expect a mercenary to have much of any loyalty to his employer, compared to a soldier who enlisted in a volunteer army and was on active duty in a war zone;
2. Snowden seems to have been pretty careful about what information he stole and released to the news media. He's shared a few PowerPoint slides and revealed some details about the programs he is familiar with, but nothing like the document dump of 700,000+ classified files Manning basically crapped out to Wikileaks; essentially, everything he could get his hands on. That selectivity counts for something;
3. His disclosures appear to actually be making a potentially positive difference in the sense that even our dysfunctional Congress is seeing Democan'ts and Rethuglicans come together to amend the Patriot Act and cut funding for some of the NSA electronic surveillance programs. I know the last vote on a reform bill failed in the House, but just barely. And it may pass the next time it comes up.

Given those differences, I think Snowden's supporters have a certain amount of justification for saying he's not all bad (though what I believe doesn't really matter). I still get the sense that he's an egomaniac attention whore but then that description could apply to a lot of farkers, too.

\ assange must be laughing his @ss off. Punks like Manning and Snowden take all of the risks, he gets 9/10ths of the credit.
 
2013-08-01 11:40:16 AM

uber humper: Great Janitor: There is no farking reason why the U.S. government should be spying on the staff at my local McDonald's when they talk on the their cell phone. Me, I have no criminal background, I haven't left the country since 2000, I'm an American citizen. Spying on me is NOT going to save a single life, not going to stop any terrorist attack. It is a waste of funds and times for the United States government to spy on me in the name of anti-terrorism, and not just me, but for 99% of the 300,000,000 American Citizens in the United States.

Spying on future (and current) politicians would interest some people, greatly.


Not to mention that I'm sure authoritarian elements in the fedgov believe that it's important that everyone be tracked at all times just on the off chance that someone somewhere does something that they don't like.
 
2013-08-01 11:43:22 AM

Weaver95: uber humper: Great Janitor: There is no farking reason why the U.S. government should be spying on the staff at my local McDonald's when they talk on the their cell phone. Me, I have no criminal background, I haven't left the country since 2000, I'm an American citizen. Spying on me is NOT going to save a single life, not going to stop any terrorist attack. It is a waste of funds and times for the United States government to spy on me in the name of anti-terrorism, and not just me, but for 99% of the 300,000,000 American Citizens in the United States.

Spying on future (and current) politicians would interest some people, greatly.

Not to mention that I'm sure authoritarian elements in the fedgov believe that it's important that everyone be tracked at all times just on the off chance that someone somewhere does something that they don't like.


Their argument is that it is easier to just grab everyting.  It probably is.  But the end does not justify the means.  Their means to do that, open up all kinds of means to do other things.
 
2013-08-01 11:54:26 AM

uber humper: Weaver95: uber humper: Great Janitor: There is no farking reason why the U.S. government should be spying on the staff at my local McDonald's when they talk on the their cell phone. Me, I have no criminal background, I haven't left the country since 2000, I'm an American citizen. Spying on me is NOT going to save a single life, not going to stop any terrorist attack. It is a waste of funds and times for the United States government to spy on me in the name of anti-terrorism, and not just me, but for 99% of the 300,000,000 American Citizens in the United States.

Spying on future (and current) politicians would interest some people, greatly.

Not to mention that I'm sure authoritarian elements in the fedgov believe that it's important that everyone be tracked at all times just on the off chance that someone somewhere does something that they don't like.

Their argument is that it is easier to just grab everyting.  It probably is.  But the end does not justify the means.  Their means to do that, open up all kinds of means to do other things.


To most authoritarians the end always justifies the means.
 
2013-08-01 11:56:04 AM

Weaver95: To most authoritarians the end always justifies the means.


Does it make me an authoritarian to worry about whether the "means" are upsetting in thought, or in real-world application?
 
2013-08-01 12:07:02 PM

LasersHurt: Weaver95: To most authoritarians the end always justifies the means.

Does it make me an authoritarian to worry about whether the "means" are upsetting in thought, or in real-world application?


Let me ask you a question: Do you think the data gathered should be used in eveyday (non-terror) police procedure?
 
2013-08-01 12:08:18 PM

IdBeCrazyIf: macadamnut: RobertBruce: /if he's smart

If he's smart he'll go back to the airport tomorrow and hop on a plane to Venezuela.

That would work except to get there he has to either lay off in a country that isn't offering asylum and hope they let him get back on a plane or risk crossing over western airspace where his flight will be met with some very friendly F16s


The F is for freedom.
 
2013-08-01 12:21:00 PM

Great Janitor: KellyX: Predict he is found dead within 5 years...

You're going with years?


Safer bet than saying 5 days...
 
2013-08-01 12:28:22 PM
To the idiots saying that Snowden will be dead in days, on the contrary he is in the safest place he could possibly be.  The KGB will be near 24/7 to assure his safety because it would be extremely embarrassing to Putin and Russia if something were to happen to him.  Snowden is not only a shining beacon of Russia's moral superiority to the US but also a possible chip to be played in the Syria situation.
 
2013-08-01 12:29:20 PM

KellyX: Great Janitor: KellyX: Predict he is found dead within 5 years...

You're going with years?

Safer bet than saying 5 days...

 
He's safe. From the Americans, anyways. He has too much info as an insurance policy. Although, they will try to arrest him. In that case he won't have the info leaked to keep from having another charge stacked on him. Probably like a 20 year sentence. Long enough so the info is irrelevant, by then; short enough so that he can see he will still have something of a life left when he gets out -- so he won't do anything to fark that up.

 
2013-08-01 12:41:47 PM

cirrhosis_and_halitosis: Russia's moral superiority to the US


lololololol
 
2013-08-01 12:52:18 PM

uber humper: LasersHurt: uber humper: They built what will destroy this country.

Dude, take a literal chill pill. Relax.

Chill? The government has an absolute window into the lives of every citizen.  I'm not worried about someone watch me jack off.  I'm worried that the potential of political misuse is too great. It will be misused.  There is no doubt.

The country will eventually fail, everything does.  When we fall into tyranny, there is no chance to fight it, the tools are there.  The people who built this are the enemies of this country and it's people.


(Playing devil's advocate...     well sort of...)

Do you really think that a tyrant would be unable to simply build these tools after coming into power?
 
2013-08-01 12:53:38 PM

uber humper: LasersHurt: uber humper: Well now I don't even know what conversation we're having anymore.

Way back, we started this conversation when I asked why this XKeystoke was not on front page, you said it wasn't farkworthy.  Now it seems like you do believe it's important.

No, I didn't.

Ok.  Got you mixed up with MrSplifferton a little upstream.

I gotta run.  Talk to you when the next revelation of government treating citizens like enemies comes up.


Did you read what I wrote, or did you forget while you were ranting?

someone asked why xkeystore wasn't on fark. I told them it was in the politics tab yesterday. That fark, like many other news sites did not feel it was front page worthy.

I did not say that the story was not worthy of being on the front page of fark. I said that fark, like many other news sites yesterday did not feel it was front page worthy.
 
2013-08-01 12:55:52 PM
How long before Snowden is crying to GET OUT of Russia?
 
2013-08-01 12:59:54 PM

YoungLochinvar: uber humper: LasersHurt: uber humper: They built what will destroy this country.

Dude, take a literal chill pill. Relax.

Chill? The government has an absolute window into the lives of every citizen.  I'm not worried about someone watch me jack off.  I'm worried that the potential of political misuse is too great. It will be misused.  There is no doubt.

The country will eventually fail, everything does.  When we fall into tyranny, there is no chance to fight it, the tools are there.  The people who built this are the enemies of this country and it's people.

(Playing devil's advocate...     well sort of...)

Do you really think that a tyrant would be unable to simply build these tools after coming into power?


He would need those tools come into power.  It would it easier to intimidate and out maneuver his opposition.

We are safer without PRISM and XKeystrokes and others. Unintended consequences...
 
2013-08-01 01:00:16 PM
Putin wanted to make sure Snowden wasn't gay first.
 
2013-08-01 01:01:43 PM

MrSplifferton: someone asked why xkeystore wasn't on fark. I told them it was in the politics tab yesterday. That fark, like many other news sites did not feel it was front page worthy.

I did not say that the story was not worthy of being on the front page of fark. I said that fark, like many other news sites yesterday did not feel it was front page worthy.


It's now front page on CNN, msnbc, and others.
 
2013-08-01 01:06:03 PM

uber humper: MrSplifferton: someone asked why xkeystore wasn't on fark. I told them it was in the politics tab yesterday. That fark, like many other news sites did not feel it was front page worthy.

I did not say that the story was not worthy of being on the front page of fark. I said that fark, like many other news sites yesterday did not feel it was front page worthy.

It's now front page on CNN, msnbc, and others.


Today, not yesterday when it was posted to the politics tab.

and still, its buried underneath the Snowden leaving airport stories, or Ariel Castro stories.
 
2013-08-01 01:06:03 PM

uber humper: YoungLochinvar: uber humper: LasersHurt: uber humper: They built what will destroy this country.

Dude, take a literal chill pill. Relax.

Chill? The government has an absolute window into the lives of every citizen.  I'm not worried about someone watch me jack off.  I'm worried that the potential of political misuse is too great. It will be misused.  There is no doubt.

The country will eventually fail, everything does.  When we fall into tyranny, there is no chance to fight it, the tools are there.  The people who built this are the enemies of this country and it's people.

(Playing devil's advocate...     well sort of...)

Do you really think that a tyrant would be unable to simply build these tools after coming into power?

He would need those tools come into power.  It would it easier to intimidate and out maneuver his opposition.

We are safer without PRISM and XKeystrokes and others. Unintended consequences...


Well I'd absolutely disagree with your first sentence. They'd help, but I certainly don't think they're *necessary*. I'd agree that's it's probably better if they don't exist, however.
 
2013-08-01 01:06:22 PM

teenytinycornteeth: Here let me help you by bolding the important parts. Just know that when you stand around pointing and laughing at the insanity of these godless backward countries and their primitive, horrific ways of dealing with people you shouldn't be surprised to find them pointing right back.


Chicago is another country?
 
2013-08-01 01:12:05 PM

YoungLochinvar: Well I'd absolutely disagree with your first sentence. They'd help, but I certainly don't think they're *necessary*. I'd agree that's it's probably better if they don't exist, however.


Yep.  You're right -- not necessary.

They will be misused. This is the intelligence apparatus that could not prevent Snowden or Manning.  Too large too unwieldy, like herding cats. Beaurocracies like this tend to not just grow in size, but to compound.

The larger they get the more problems they will have and will have to get larger to handle the problems. I could see in another generation or two everyone will know someone in the domestic surveillance biz.
 
2013-08-01 01:35:40 PM

Satanic_Hamster: teenytinycornteeth: Here let me help you by bolding the important parts. Just know that when you stand around pointing and laughing at the insanity of these godless backward countries and their primitive, horrific ways of dealing with people you shouldn't be surprised to find them pointing right back.

Chicago is another country?


What the fark are you on about?  I don't know how much more simply it can be said:  Pointing and laughing at Russia for having a poor track record of respecting the basic rights of humanity can make you look a bit silly since your own country has done the same things.

1) you can still say it
2) you can still be outraged
but
3) set aside a portion of that outrage for your own country
 
2013-08-01 02:36:58 PM

WireFire2: How long before Snowden is crying to GET OUT of Russia?


Nonsense. I'm sure the KGB FSB is giving him the first class treatment they're known for.

blog.koldcast.tv
 
2013-08-01 03:32:29 PM

IdBeCrazyIf: macadamnut: RobertBruce: /if he's smart

If he's smart he'll go back to the airport tomorrow and hop on a plane to Venezuela.

That would work except to get there he has to either lay off in a country that isn't offering asylum and hope they let him get back on a plane or risk crossing over western airspace where his flight will be met with some very friendly F16s


...I assumed he would take a commercial flight...
 
2013-08-01 03:58:30 PM

uber humper: What he goes does not invalidate this information he's releasing. The government has acknowledged it to be true.


Yet at the same time they also acknowledge that the information was not meant for public consumption.  Just because he released it doesnt mean it lost its classification.  Given the NSA, they'll have something after this that doesn't get released; they've survived Carter and Clinton; they will survive Obama.

Mind that while they've survived the 1970's, that doesnt mean one puts them in the fire to fark with them.  What gets publicly disclosed lands in the hands of actual(not Randian defined) terrorists who want both of us dead.


cirrhosis_and_halitosis: To the idiots saying that Snowden will be dead in days, on the contrary he is in the safest place he could possibly be. The KGB will be near 24/7 to assure his safety because it would be extremely embarrassing to Putin and Russia if something were to happen to him. Snowden is not only a shining beacon of Russia's moral superiority to the US but also a possible chip to be played in the Syria situation.


Then you go against his support network.  Providing him any assistance, whether by the legal, medical, law enforcement, or other professions is at your own peril - without regard to jurisdiction.  The same goes for family and friends that don't want to cooperate.  In addition, add fees to inbound Russian(or any other hosts) immigration until Snowden gets delivered to the United States.

Whatever claim to any moral high ground in Russia was lost <i>centuries</i> ago - that's just Putin's puffery.  They're more corrupt than the US(~$25,000 gets you your own Zil lane), and less individual freedom than the US(Litvinenko and his hot tea?).
 
2013-08-01 04:05:25 PM

PsiChick: ...I assumed he would take a commercial flight...


Which has its own liabilities - the F16's will still command the plane to divert.  If it doesn't, then it makes those airlines question if they really want the collateral damage.

teenytinycornteeth: Pointing and laughing at Russia for having a poor track record of respecting the basic rights of humanity can make you look a bit silly since your own country has done the same things.


Then have some hot Russian tea and get back with us while you still have hair on your head.
 
2013-08-01 04:12:16 PM

uber humper: He's safe. From the Americans, anyways. He has too much info as an insurance policy. Although, they will try to arrest him. In that case he won't have the info leaked to keep from having another charge stacked on him. Probably like a 20 year sentence. Long enough so the info is irrelevant, by then; short enough so that he can see he will still have something of a life left when he gets out -- so he won't do anything to fark that up.


As I said above, cut him off from as much of his support network as possible - family, friends, uncooperative lawyers, and others.  Offer a pardon and protection to anyone who acts in a private capacity to "accident" him or his helpers.


That, and given Russia's level of corruption, he's not safe from Americans.  Pay the right price and they'll look the other way while he gets ex-rended back home - maybe with the unofficial help of Russians.
 
2013-08-01 04:13:51 PM

Satanic_Hamster: Chicago is another country?


Given the way it operates, yes - much like Texas could be considered its own country.
 
2013-08-01 04:16:53 PM

sethstorm: PsiChick: ...I assumed he would take a commercial flight...

Which has its own liabilities - the F16's will still command the plane to divert.  If it doesn't, then it makes those airlines question if they really want the collateral damage.


Yeah, that's kind of my point. Like...godf*ckingdamn, that theory just...

I'm not sure if we're that evil or not, but if we did that, holy fark, I'd move to farking Canada.
 
2013-08-01 04:52:39 PM
I'll just say this...
Can we just move on to the beefcake now?
 
2013-08-01 05:26:08 PM
sethstorm:

cirrhosis_and_halitosis: To the idiots saying that Snowden will be dead in days, on the contrary he is in the safest place he could possibly be. The KGB will be near 24/7 to assure his safety because it would be extremely embarrassing to Putin and Russia if something were to happen to him. Snowden is not only a shining beacon of Russia's moral superiority to the US but also a possible chip to be played in the Syria situation.

Then you go against his support network.  Providing him any assistance, whether by the legal, medical, law enforcement, or other professions is at your own peril - without regard to jurisdiction.  The same goes for family and friends that don't want to cooperate.  In addition, add fees to inbound Russian(or any other hosts) immigration until Snowden gets delivered to the United States.

Whatever claim to any moral high ground in Russia was lost <i>centuries</i> ago - that's just Putin's puffery.  They're more corrupt than the US(~$25,000 gets you your own Zil lane), and less individual freedom than the US(Litvinenko and his hot tea?).


I'm a little confused by your nonsensical ramblings but the fact is that Russia is keeping Snowden and there is nothing the US can do about it.  There will be no Seal Team Six operation to extract him because it would be an international scandal against a country than can actually defend itself.  Nor will Russian officials be bought off to hand him over without Putin having their heads.  He is Putin's prize and he will be protected.  There will be regular updates on how well Snowden is being treated and how humane Russia is compared to the US.
 
2013-08-01 06:42:01 PM
FormlessOne:

Again, it's hard for us to take the moral high road, what with our decade-plus-long history of "extraordinary rendition", illegal prisons, torturing of both domestic and foreign prisoners, and remote-control assassinations. We gave up that moral high road when we decided to act like the folks we claimed we were fighting.
****But all that stuff stopped on Jan. 20, 2009.
 
2013-08-01 06:45:06 PM
cirrhosis_and_halitosis:I'm a little confused, but the fact is that Russia is keeping Snowden and there is nothing the US can do about it.  There will be no Seal Team Six operation to extract him because it would be an international scandal against a country than can actually defend itself.  Nor will Russian officials be bought off to hand him over without Putin having their heads.  He is Putin's prize and he will be protected.  There will be regular updates on how well Snowden is being treated and how humane Russia is compared to the US.

That didn't stop Carter from trying in Iran, and it's not as if there isn't stuff being done quietly; never mind that Reagan would have put an end to the mess as soon as he got to HK.  That, and terrorists do make a point to give the appearance of humanity with hostages when they really aren't - much like what Putin is trying with Snowden.  Either way, holding back on our end or putting on a Potemkin show with Snowden doesn't look good for either party.

If they can't get to Snowden, then anyone providing material support or legal counsel is fair game.  Stop only when Snowden comes back and turn it up when the complaints come in.  Since Snowden thinks its nice to go extrajudicial, it's only equitable to return the favor.
 
2013-08-01 07:21:36 PM
sethstorm:

That didn't stop Carter from trying in Iran, and it's not as if there isn't stuff being done quietly; never mind that Reagan would have put an end to the mess as soon as he got to HK.  That, and terrorists do make a point to give the appearance of humanity with hostages when they really aren't - much like what Putin is trying with Snowden.  Either way, holding back on our end or putting on a Potemkin show with Snowden doesn't look good for either party.

If they can't get to Snowden, then anyone providing material support or legal counsel is fair game.  Stop only when Snowden comes back and turn it up when the complaints come in.  Since Snowden thinks its nice to go extrajudicial, it's only equitable to return the favor.


Hang on, you're calling Russia the terrorists?  You sound a little nutty...

Russia is not Iran and Obama has slightly (barely?) more diplomacy skills than Reagan.  I'm sure the CIA has agents in Russia that will be shadowing Snowden and there will be KGB agents shadowing them.  Snowden will be fine, he is too high profile to meet with an "accident" or disappear without a trace no matter how bad the US gov't would like that to happen.
 
2013-08-01 07:30:53 PM

sethstorm: cirrhosis_and_halitosis:I'm a little confused, but the fact is that Russia is keeping Snowden and there is nothing the US can do about it.  There will be no Seal Team Six operation to extract him because it would be an international scandal against a country than can actually defend itself.  Nor will Russian officials be bought off to hand him over without Putin having their heads.  He is Putin's prize and he will be protected.  There will be regular updates on how well Snowden is being treated and how humane Russia is compared to the US.

That didn't stop Carter from trying in Iran, and it's not as if there isn't stuff being done quietly; never mind that Reagan would have put an end to the mess as soon as he got to HK.  That, and terrorists do make a point to give the appearance of humanity with hostages when they really aren't - much like what Putin is trying with Snowden.  Either way, holding back on our end or putting on a Potemkin show with Snowden doesn't look good for either party.

If they can't get to Snowden, then anyone providing material support or legal counsel is fair game.  Stop only when Snowden comes back and turn it up when the complaints come in.  Since Snowden thinks its nice to go extrajudicial, it's only equitable to return the favor.


Snowden has already given out the encrypted files.  I think it's moot to bring him in. Of course, they have to save face they can't just walk away.

Anyways, Snowden will take back burner, for a few days,  as the new Bengazi revelations are debated.  Twenty-some-odd CIA operatives in Bengazi on 9/11?? CIA trying to cover up? I imagine there will be a tread in a few.
 
2013-08-01 08:39:20 PM

Oldiron_79: So wonder if he is gonna take up that red head spy chick on her offer?


i would,i mean wood!
 
2013-08-01 11:36:15 PM
img841.imageshack.us
 
2013-08-02 12:24:49 AM

FlashHarry: the hot redheaded russian spy???


Yep, that one.
 
2013-08-02 12:47:58 AM

Great Janitor: Wayne 985: Great Janitor: tical: graeth: Still don't see why people care so much.
How stupid do you have to be to believe that someone somewhere isn't monitoring or at least recording some kind of information on you.

That justifies its legality? Lets those who break the law, not criminals?

/keep hand waiving
//get out of my country

It's not surprising to know that the U.S. was spying on other nations.
It's not surprising that the U.S. was spying on suspected terrorist cells, known sympathizers in both the U.S. and in other nations
It's not surprising to know that other nations have been spying on the U.S.
It is expected to know that the U.S. government makes it their duty to spy on suspected enemies and known enemies.

What does it mean when the U.S. government is openly spying on it's own citizens?  That the U.S. government thinks of it's own citizens as potential enemies is the answer that I have a hard time avoiding.

The 9/11 attackers lived in this country for some time. It's obvious that we have enemies posing as legitimate Americans and they should be rooted out. It's not McCarthyism. We're not destroying people's lives. We're looking at phone records to save them.

They were not American citizens.  19 foreign nationals from countries that aren't exactly friendly to U.S. interests and home to terrorist cells that have attacked U.S. bases over seas would be justifiable for the U.S. to spy on them.

There is no farking reason why the U.S. government should be spying on the staff at my local McDonald's when they talk on the their cell phone.  Me, I have no criminal background, I haven't left the country since 2000, I'm an American citizen.  Spying on me is NOT going to save a single life, not going to stop any terrorist attack.  It is a waste of funds and times for the United States government to spy on me in the name of anti-terrorism, and not just me, but for 99% of the 300,000,000 American Citizens in the United States.


McVeigh, Rudolph, etc were American citizens. With the rate of Middle Eastern emigration to the United States, there are bound to be some jihadists who go for citizenship or a green card.

Frankly, I don't see how that's really all that relevant though. If people in our country are targeting Americans, I don't much care if they're citizens or residents or illegal immigrants. I want them taken out.
 
2013-08-02 04:55:31 AM
Just because you SAY he isn't a whistle blower doesn't mean he isn't. It just means you're pissed and you're going to do whatever you can to make the guy who made you look bad suffer.
 
2013-08-02 08:08:20 AM

porterm: Oldiron_79: So wonder if he is gonna take up that red head spy chick on her offer?

i would,i mean wood!


Yeah, Id wreck that so bad Gordon lightfoot would write a song about it.
 
2013-08-02 10:29:33 AM

uber humper: Snowden has already given out the encrypted files. I think it's moot to bring him in. Of course, they have to save face they can't just walk away.


Do it anyway - and go for the people that release it - to establish a steep price to be paid for associating with Snowden.  If not him initially, then go for anyone providing material support.  Take it out on Russians coming to the United States in the form of exorbitant security fees and crackdowns on organized crime.  Their back can be broken if the US is willing to do so.

Diplomacy isn't working, perhaps a more active approach would work.

cirrhosis_and_halitosis: Hang on, you're calling Russia the terrorists? [derp]


Why yes they are - trying to demonize doesn't change that.  They might not be the USSR, but they definitely act like it, which is close enough to be considered terrorists.

As for Snowden, he might be a hard target, but the people supporting him (his lawyers, uncooperative "journalists", etc.) are easier.  If associating with him means your own demise(and at a net loss), it won't matter who has the information or what they have - people will want to live and not subject their family and friends to unnecessary peril.

It's nice and all until you're responsible for making it a Very Bad Day for family, friends, people providing material assistance, and anyone in this situation who calls themselves "human rights activists".  If they want to save themselves, the best thing would be to cooperate with the US by turning in what they have, who gave it to them, and how they are associated with Snowden.
 
2013-08-02 12:58:40 PM

sethstorm: Do it anyway - and go for the people that release it - to establish a steep price to be paid for associating with Snowden. If not him initially, then go for anyone providing material support. Take it out on Russians coming to the United States in the form of exorbitant security fees and crackdowns on organized crime. Their back can be broken if the US is willing to do so.

Diplomacy isn't working, perhaps a more active approach would work.


We need to go easier on whistleblowers.  How else are we to trust the government again? We can't trust what they say and do; we, the citizens, need to be part of the checks and balance system.  The leadership of the US are lairs. The government needs to make a grand offering to the people to show that they can be trusted again. Words wont do it.  Verifiable actions
 
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