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(NPR) NewsFlash Snowden leaks out of secure area   (npr.org) divider line 152
    More: NewsFlash, Russia, Moscow's Sheremetyevo Airport, Moscow  
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6493 clicks; posted to Main » on 01 Aug 2013 at 9:12 AM (37 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»


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2013-08-01 11:13:20 AM

uber humper: Well now I don't even know what conversation we're having anymore.

Way back, we started this conversation when I asked why this XKeystoke was not on front page, you said it wasn't farkworthy.  Now it seems like you do believe it's important.


No, I didn't.
 
2013-08-01 11:17:24 AM

LasersHurt: uber humper: Well now I don't even know what conversation we're having anymore.

Way back, we started this conversation when I asked why this XKeystoke was not on front page, you said it wasn't farkworthy.  Now it seems like you do believe it's important.

No, I didn't.


Ok.  Got you mixed up with MrSplifferton a little upstream.

I gotta run.  Talk to you when the next revelation of government treating citizens like enemies comes up.
 
2013-08-01 11:22:43 AM

Wayne 985: Great Janitor: tical: graeth: Still don't see why people care so much.
How stupid do you have to be to believe that someone somewhere isn't monitoring or at least recording some kind of information on you.

That justifies its legality? Lets those who break the law, not criminals?

/keep hand waiving
//get out of my country

It's not surprising to know that the U.S. was spying on other nations.
It's not surprising that the U.S. was spying on suspected terrorist cells, known sympathizers in both the U.S. and in other nations
It's not surprising to know that other nations have been spying on the U.S.
It is expected to know that the U.S. government makes it their duty to spy on suspected enemies and known enemies.

What does it mean when the U.S. government is openly spying on it's own citizens?  That the U.S. government thinks of it's own citizens as potential enemies is the answer that I have a hard time avoiding.

The 9/11 attackers lived in this country for some time. It's obvious that we have enemies posing as legitimate Americans and they should be rooted out. It's not McCarthyism. We're not destroying people's lives. We're looking at phone records to save them.


They were not American citizens.  19 foreign nationals from countries that aren't exactly friendly to U.S. interests and home to terrorist cells that have attacked U.S. bases over seas would be justifiable for the U.S. to spy on them.

There is no farking reason why the U.S. government should be spying on the staff at my local McDonald's when they talk on the their cell phone.  Me, I have no criminal background, I haven't left the country since 2000, I'm an American citizen.  Spying on me is NOT going to save a single life, not going to stop any terrorist attack.  It is a waste of funds and times for the United States government to spy on me in the name of anti-terrorism, and not just me, but for 99% of the 300,000,000 American Citizens in the United States.
 
2013-08-01 11:24:45 AM

Great Janitor: There is no farking reason why the U.S. government should be spying on the staff at my local McDonald's when they talk on the their cell phone. Me, I have no criminal background, I haven't left the country since 2000, I'm an American citizen. Spying on me is NOT going to save a single life, not going to stop any terrorist attack. It is a waste of funds and times for the United States government to spy on me in the name of anti-terrorism, and not just me, but for 99% of the 300,000,000 American Citizens in the United States.


Spying on future (and current) politicians would interest some people, greatly.
 
2013-08-01 11:26:04 AM

Great Janitor: What does it mean when the U.S. government is openly spying on it's own citizens?  That the U.S. government thinks of it's own citizens as potential enemies is the answer that I have a hard time avoiding.


i823.photobucket.com
 
2013-08-01 11:30:06 AM

revrendjim: Great Janitor: What does it mean when the U.S. government is openly spying on it's own citizens?  That the U.S. government thinks of it's own citizens as potential enemies is the answer that I have a hard time avoiding.

[i823.photobucket.com image 300x168]


Didn't work, did it?

A few people dead does not compare to millions who would be subjected to tyrannical government with absolute surveillance of it's people. . We're fine now.  Not worth betting our future on.

Work on foreign policy, not domestic spying.
 
2013-08-01 11:30:42 AM

uber humper: Look closer. XKeystroke is on the front of cnn, msnbc, et. al.


Because it was announced yesterday. Where's PRISM? Where's Room 641A? Where's the outsourcing of national security to private for-profit businesses like Snowden's employer? Snowden is apparently more newsworthy.
 
2013-08-01 11:32:21 AM

generallyso: uber humper: Look closer. XKeystroke is on the front of cnn, msnbc, et. al.

Because it was announced yesterday. Where's PRISM? Where's Room 641A? Where's the outsourcing of national security to private for-profit businesses like Snowden's employer? Snowden is apparently more newsworthy.


Do your part. Keep talking about it. Keep the conversation going.
 
2013-08-01 11:36:56 AM

generallyso: uber humper: It's on the front page of every news outlet.

Damn, you're really starting sound like a bootlicker.

Snowden is on the front page of every news outlet. Mass domestic spying and the literal outsourcing of national security seem to be less newsworthy than Snowden himself.


It's interesting watching how the press twists the focus of the story around.
 
2013-08-01 11:38:18 AM
Personally, I think Snowden is a treacherous little weasel but the Bradley Manning verdict does make me appreciate a few things that put his actions in a different category (for me at least):

1. As a contractor, Snowden doesn't strike me as having quite the same ethical and legal obligations to go through the proper channels to divulge classified information (i.e., the Whistleblower Act) as Manning did. I don't expect a mercenary to have much of any loyalty to his employer, compared to a soldier who enlisted in a volunteer army and was on active duty in a war zone;
2. Snowden seems to have been pretty careful about what information he stole and released to the news media. He's shared a few PowerPoint slides and revealed some details about the programs he is familiar with, but nothing like the document dump of 700,000+ classified files Manning basically crapped out to Wikileaks; essentially, everything he could get his hands on. That selectivity counts for something;
3. His disclosures appear to actually be making a potentially positive difference in the sense that even our dysfunctional Congress is seeing Democan'ts and Rethuglicans come together to amend the Patriot Act and cut funding for some of the NSA electronic surveillance programs. I know the last vote on a reform bill failed in the House, but just barely. And it may pass the next time it comes up.

Given those differences, I think Snowden's supporters have a certain amount of justification for saying he's not all bad (though what I believe doesn't really matter). I still get the sense that he's an egomaniac attention whore but then that description could apply to a lot of farkers, too.

\ assange must be laughing his @ss off. Punks like Manning and Snowden take all of the risks, he gets 9/10ths of the credit.
 
2013-08-01 11:40:16 AM

uber humper: Great Janitor: There is no farking reason why the U.S. government should be spying on the staff at my local McDonald's when they talk on the their cell phone. Me, I have no criminal background, I haven't left the country since 2000, I'm an American citizen. Spying on me is NOT going to save a single life, not going to stop any terrorist attack. It is a waste of funds and times for the United States government to spy on me in the name of anti-terrorism, and not just me, but for 99% of the 300,000,000 American Citizens in the United States.

Spying on future (and current) politicians would interest some people, greatly.


Not to mention that I'm sure authoritarian elements in the fedgov believe that it's important that everyone be tracked at all times just on the off chance that someone somewhere does something that they don't like.
 
2013-08-01 11:43:22 AM

Weaver95: uber humper: Great Janitor: There is no farking reason why the U.S. government should be spying on the staff at my local McDonald's when they talk on the their cell phone. Me, I have no criminal background, I haven't left the country since 2000, I'm an American citizen. Spying on me is NOT going to save a single life, not going to stop any terrorist attack. It is a waste of funds and times for the United States government to spy on me in the name of anti-terrorism, and not just me, but for 99% of the 300,000,000 American Citizens in the United States.

Spying on future (and current) politicians would interest some people, greatly.

Not to mention that I'm sure authoritarian elements in the fedgov believe that it's important that everyone be tracked at all times just on the off chance that someone somewhere does something that they don't like.


Their argument is that it is easier to just grab everyting.  It probably is.  But the end does not justify the means.  Their means to do that, open up all kinds of means to do other things.
 
2013-08-01 11:54:26 AM

uber humper: Weaver95: uber humper: Great Janitor: There is no farking reason why the U.S. government should be spying on the staff at my local McDonald's when they talk on the their cell phone. Me, I have no criminal background, I haven't left the country since 2000, I'm an American citizen. Spying on me is NOT going to save a single life, not going to stop any terrorist attack. It is a waste of funds and times for the United States government to spy on me in the name of anti-terrorism, and not just me, but for 99% of the 300,000,000 American Citizens in the United States.

Spying on future (and current) politicians would interest some people, greatly.

Not to mention that I'm sure authoritarian elements in the fedgov believe that it's important that everyone be tracked at all times just on the off chance that someone somewhere does something that they don't like.

Their argument is that it is easier to just grab everyting.  It probably is.  But the end does not justify the means.  Their means to do that, open up all kinds of means to do other things.


To most authoritarians the end always justifies the means.
 
2013-08-01 11:56:04 AM

Weaver95: To most authoritarians the end always justifies the means.


Does it make me an authoritarian to worry about whether the "means" are upsetting in thought, or in real-world application?
 
2013-08-01 12:07:02 PM

LasersHurt: Weaver95: To most authoritarians the end always justifies the means.

Does it make me an authoritarian to worry about whether the "means" are upsetting in thought, or in real-world application?


Let me ask you a question: Do you think the data gathered should be used in eveyday (non-terror) police procedure?
 
2013-08-01 12:08:18 PM

IdBeCrazyIf: macadamnut: RobertBruce: /if he's smart

If he's smart he'll go back to the airport tomorrow and hop on a plane to Venezuela.

That would work except to get there he has to either lay off in a country that isn't offering asylum and hope they let him get back on a plane or risk crossing over western airspace where his flight will be met with some very friendly F16s


The F is for freedom.
 
2013-08-01 12:21:00 PM

Great Janitor: KellyX: Predict he is found dead within 5 years...

You're going with years?


Safer bet than saying 5 days...
 
2013-08-01 12:28:22 PM
To the idiots saying that Snowden will be dead in days, on the contrary he is in the safest place he could possibly be.  The KGB will be near 24/7 to assure his safety because it would be extremely embarrassing to Putin and Russia if something were to happen to him.  Snowden is not only a shining beacon of Russia's moral superiority to the US but also a possible chip to be played in the Syria situation.
 
2013-08-01 12:29:20 PM

KellyX: Great Janitor: KellyX: Predict he is found dead within 5 years...

You're going with years?

Safer bet than saying 5 days...

 
He's safe. From the Americans, anyways. He has too much info as an insurance policy. Although, they will try to arrest him. In that case he won't have the info leaked to keep from having another charge stacked on him. Probably like a 20 year sentence. Long enough so the info is irrelevant, by then; short enough so that he can see he will still have something of a life left when he gets out -- so he won't do anything to fark that up.

 
2013-08-01 12:41:47 PM

cirrhosis_and_halitosis: Russia's moral superiority to the US


lololololol
 
2013-08-01 12:52:18 PM

uber humper: LasersHurt: uber humper: They built what will destroy this country.

Dude, take a literal chill pill. Relax.

Chill? The government has an absolute window into the lives of every citizen.  I'm not worried about someone watch me jack off.  I'm worried that the potential of political misuse is too great. It will be misused.  There is no doubt.

The country will eventually fail, everything does.  When we fall into tyranny, there is no chance to fight it, the tools are there.  The people who built this are the enemies of this country and it's people.


(Playing devil's advocate...     well sort of...)

Do you really think that a tyrant would be unable to simply build these tools after coming into power?
 
2013-08-01 12:53:38 PM

uber humper: LasersHurt: uber humper: Well now I don't even know what conversation we're having anymore.

Way back, we started this conversation when I asked why this XKeystoke was not on front page, you said it wasn't farkworthy.  Now it seems like you do believe it's important.

No, I didn't.

Ok.  Got you mixed up with MrSplifferton a little upstream.

I gotta run.  Talk to you when the next revelation of government treating citizens like enemies comes up.


Did you read what I wrote, or did you forget while you were ranting?

someone asked why xkeystore wasn't on fark. I told them it was in the politics tab yesterday. That fark, like many other news sites did not feel it was front page worthy.

I did not say that the story was not worthy of being on the front page of fark. I said that fark, like many other news sites yesterday did not feel it was front page worthy.
 
2013-08-01 12:55:52 PM
How long before Snowden is crying to GET OUT of Russia?
 
2013-08-01 12:59:54 PM

YoungLochinvar: uber humper: LasersHurt: uber humper: They built what will destroy this country.

Dude, take a literal chill pill. Relax.

Chill? The government has an absolute window into the lives of every citizen.  I'm not worried about someone watch me jack off.  I'm worried that the potential of political misuse is too great. It will be misused.  There is no doubt.

The country will eventually fail, everything does.  When we fall into tyranny, there is no chance to fight it, the tools are there.  The people who built this are the enemies of this country and it's people.

(Playing devil's advocate...     well sort of...)

Do you really think that a tyrant would be unable to simply build these tools after coming into power?


He would need those tools come into power.  It would it easier to intimidate and out maneuver his opposition.

We are safer without PRISM and XKeystrokes and others. Unintended consequences...
 
2013-08-01 01:00:16 PM
Putin wanted to make sure Snowden wasn't gay first.
 
2013-08-01 01:01:43 PM

MrSplifferton: someone asked why xkeystore wasn't on fark. I told them it was in the politics tab yesterday. That fark, like many other news sites did not feel it was front page worthy.

I did not say that the story was not worthy of being on the front page of fark. I said that fark, like many other news sites yesterday did not feel it was front page worthy.


It's now front page on CNN, msnbc, and others.
 
2013-08-01 01:06:03 PM

uber humper: MrSplifferton: someone asked why xkeystore wasn't on fark. I told them it was in the politics tab yesterday. That fark, like many other news sites did not feel it was front page worthy.

I did not say that the story was not worthy of being on the front page of fark. I said that fark, like many other news sites yesterday did not feel it was front page worthy.

It's now front page on CNN, msnbc, and others.


Today, not yesterday when it was posted to the politics tab.

and still, its buried underneath the Snowden leaving airport stories, or Ariel Castro stories.
 
2013-08-01 01:06:03 PM

uber humper: YoungLochinvar: uber humper: LasersHurt: uber humper: They built what will destroy this country.

Dude, take a literal chill pill. Relax.

Chill? The government has an absolute window into the lives of every citizen.  I'm not worried about someone watch me jack off.  I'm worried that the potential of political misuse is too great. It will be misused.  There is no doubt.

The country will eventually fail, everything does.  When we fall into tyranny, there is no chance to fight it, the tools are there.  The people who built this are the enemies of this country and it's people.

(Playing devil's advocate...     well sort of...)

Do you really think that a tyrant would be unable to simply build these tools after coming into power?

He would need those tools come into power.  It would it easier to intimidate and out maneuver his opposition.

We are safer without PRISM and XKeystrokes and others. Unintended consequences...


Well I'd absolutely disagree with your first sentence. They'd help, but I certainly don't think they're *necessary*. I'd agree that's it's probably better if they don't exist, however.
 
2013-08-01 01:06:22 PM

teenytinycornteeth: Here let me help you by bolding the important parts. Just know that when you stand around pointing and laughing at the insanity of these godless backward countries and their primitive, horrific ways of dealing with people you shouldn't be surprised to find them pointing right back.


Chicago is another country?
 
2013-08-01 01:12:05 PM

YoungLochinvar: Well I'd absolutely disagree with your first sentence. They'd help, but I certainly don't think they're *necessary*. I'd agree that's it's probably better if they don't exist, however.


Yep.  You're right -- not necessary.

They will be misused. This is the intelligence apparatus that could not prevent Snowden or Manning.  Too large too unwieldy, like herding cats. Beaurocracies like this tend to not just grow in size, but to compound.

The larger they get the more problems they will have and will have to get larger to handle the problems. I could see in another generation or two everyone will know someone in the domestic surveillance biz.
 
2013-08-01 01:35:40 PM

Satanic_Hamster: teenytinycornteeth: Here let me help you by bolding the important parts. Just know that when you stand around pointing and laughing at the insanity of these godless backward countries and their primitive, horrific ways of dealing with people you shouldn't be surprised to find them pointing right back.

Chicago is another country?


What the fark are you on about?  I don't know how much more simply it can be said:  Pointing and laughing at Russia for having a poor track record of respecting the basic rights of humanity can make you look a bit silly since your own country has done the same things.

1) you can still say it
2) you can still be outraged
but
3) set aside a portion of that outrage for your own country
 
2013-08-01 02:36:58 PM

WireFire2: How long before Snowden is crying to GET OUT of Russia?


Nonsense. I'm sure the KGB FSB is giving him the first class treatment they're known for.

blog.koldcast.tv
 
2013-08-01 03:32:29 PM

IdBeCrazyIf: macadamnut: RobertBruce: /if he's smart

If he's smart he'll go back to the airport tomorrow and hop on a plane to Venezuela.

That would work except to get there he has to either lay off in a country that isn't offering asylum and hope they let him get back on a plane or risk crossing over western airspace where his flight will be met with some very friendly F16s


...I assumed he would take a commercial flight...
 
2013-08-01 03:58:30 PM

uber humper: What he goes does not invalidate this information he's releasing. The government has acknowledged it to be true.


Yet at the same time they also acknowledge that the information was not meant for public consumption.  Just because he released it doesnt mean it lost its classification.  Given the NSA, they'll have something after this that doesn't get released; they've survived Carter and Clinton; they will survive Obama.

Mind that while they've survived the 1970's, that doesnt mean one puts them in the fire to fark with them.  What gets publicly disclosed lands in the hands of actual(not Randian defined) terrorists who want both of us dead.


cirrhosis_and_halitosis: To the idiots saying that Snowden will be dead in days, on the contrary he is in the safest place he could possibly be. The KGB will be near 24/7 to assure his safety because it would be extremely embarrassing to Putin and Russia if something were to happen to him. Snowden is not only a shining beacon of Russia's moral superiority to the US but also a possible chip to be played in the Syria situation.


Then you go against his support network.  Providing him any assistance, whether by the legal, medical, law enforcement, or other professions is at your own peril - without regard to jurisdiction.  The same goes for family and friends that don't want to cooperate.  In addition, add fees to inbound Russian(or any other hosts) immigration until Snowden gets delivered to the United States.

Whatever claim to any moral high ground in Russia was lost <i>centuries</i> ago - that's just Putin's puffery.  They're more corrupt than the US(~$25,000 gets you your own Zil lane), and less individual freedom than the US(Litvinenko and his hot tea?).
 
2013-08-01 04:05:25 PM

PsiChick: ...I assumed he would take a commercial flight...


Which has its own liabilities - the F16's will still command the plane to divert.  If it doesn't, then it makes those airlines question if they really want the collateral damage.

teenytinycornteeth: Pointing and laughing at Russia for having a poor track record of respecting the basic rights of humanity can make you look a bit silly since your own country has done the same things.


Then have some hot Russian tea and get back with us while you still have hair on your head.
 
2013-08-01 04:12:16 PM

uber humper: He's safe. From the Americans, anyways. He has too much info as an insurance policy. Although, they will try to arrest him. In that case he won't have the info leaked to keep from having another charge stacked on him. Probably like a 20 year sentence. Long enough so the info is irrelevant, by then; short enough so that he can see he will still have something of a life left when he gets out -- so he won't do anything to fark that up.


As I said above, cut him off from as much of his support network as possible - family, friends, uncooperative lawyers, and others.  Offer a pardon and protection to anyone who acts in a private capacity to "accident" him or his helpers.


That, and given Russia's level of corruption, he's not safe from Americans.  Pay the right price and they'll look the other way while he gets ex-rended back home - maybe with the unofficial help of Russians.
 
2013-08-01 04:13:51 PM

Satanic_Hamster: Chicago is another country?


Given the way it operates, yes - much like Texas could be considered its own country.
 
2013-08-01 04:16:53 PM

sethstorm: PsiChick: ...I assumed he would take a commercial flight...

Which has its own liabilities - the F16's will still command the plane to divert.  If it doesn't, then it makes those airlines question if they really want the collateral damage.


Yeah, that's kind of my point. Like...godf*ckingdamn, that theory just...

I'm not sure if we're that evil or not, but if we did that, holy fark, I'd move to farking Canada.
 
2013-08-01 04:52:39 PM
I'll just say this...
Can we just move on to the beefcake now?
 
2013-08-01 05:26:08 PM
sethstorm:

cirrhosis_and_halitosis: To the idiots saying that Snowden will be dead in days, on the contrary he is in the safest place he could possibly be. The KGB will be near 24/7 to assure his safety because it would be extremely embarrassing to Putin and Russia if something were to happen to him. Snowden is not only a shining beacon of Russia's moral superiority to the US but also a possible chip to be played in the Syria situation.

Then you go against his support network.  Providing him any assistance, whether by the legal, medical, law enforcement, or other professions is at your own peril - without regard to jurisdiction.  The same goes for family and friends that don't want to cooperate.  In addition, add fees to inbound Russian(or any other hosts) immigration until Snowden gets delivered to the United States.

Whatever claim to any moral high ground in Russia was lost <i>centuries</i> ago - that's just Putin's puffery.  They're more corrupt than the US(~$25,000 gets you your own Zil lane), and less individual freedom than the US(Litvinenko and his hot tea?).


I'm a little confused by your nonsensical ramblings but the fact is that Russia is keeping Snowden and there is nothing the US can do about it.  There will be no Seal Team Six operation to extract him because it would be an international scandal against a country than can actually defend itself.  Nor will Russian officials be bought off to hand him over without Putin having their heads.  He is Putin's prize and he will be protected.  There will be regular updates on how well Snowden is being treated and how humane Russia is compared to the US.
 
2013-08-01 06:42:01 PM
FormlessOne:

Again, it's hard for us to take the moral high road, what with our decade-plus-long history of "extraordinary rendition", illegal prisons, torturing of both domestic and foreign prisoners, and remote-control assassinations. We gave up that moral high road when we decided to act like the folks we claimed we were fighting.
****But all that stuff stopped on Jan. 20, 2009.
 
2013-08-01 06:45:06 PM
cirrhosis_and_halitosis:I'm a little confused, but the fact is that Russia is keeping Snowden and there is nothing the US can do about it.  There will be no Seal Team Six operation to extract him because it would be an international scandal against a country than can actually defend itself.  Nor will Russian officials be bought off to hand him over without Putin having their heads.  He is Putin's prize and he will be protected.  There will be regular updates on how well Snowden is being treated and how humane Russia is compared to the US.

That didn't stop Carter from trying in Iran, and it's not as if there isn't stuff being done quietly; never mind that Reagan would have put an end to the mess as soon as he got to HK.  That, and terrorists do make a point to give the appearance of humanity with hostages when they really aren't - much like what Putin is trying with Snowden.  Either way, holding back on our end or putting on a Potemkin show with Snowden doesn't look good for either party.

If they can't get to Snowden, then anyone providing material support or legal counsel is fair game.  Stop only when Snowden comes back and turn it up when the complaints come in.  Since Snowden thinks its nice to go extrajudicial, it's only equitable to return the favor.
 
2013-08-01 07:21:36 PM
sethstorm:

That didn't stop Carter from trying in Iran, and it's not as if there isn't stuff being done quietly; never mind that Reagan would have put an end to the mess as soon as he got to HK.  That, and terrorists do make a point to give the appearance of humanity with hostages when they really aren't - much like what Putin is trying with Snowden.  Either way, holding back on our end or putting on a Potemkin show with Snowden doesn't look good for either party.

If they can't get to Snowden, then anyone providing material support or legal counsel is fair game.  Stop only when Snowden comes back and turn it up when the complaints come in.  Since Snowden thinks its nice to go extrajudicial, it's only equitable to return the favor.


Hang on, you're calling Russia the terrorists?  You sound a little nutty...

Russia is not Iran and Obama has slightly (barely?) more diplomacy skills than Reagan.  I'm sure the CIA has agents in Russia that will be shadowing Snowden and there will be KGB agents shadowing them.  Snowden will be fine, he is too high profile to meet with an "accident" or disappear without a trace no matter how bad the US gov't would like that to happen.
 
2013-08-01 07:30:53 PM

sethstorm: cirrhosis_and_halitosis:I'm a little confused, but the fact is that Russia is keeping Snowden and there is nothing the US can do about it.  There will be no Seal Team Six operation to extract him because it would be an international scandal against a country than can actually defend itself.  Nor will Russian officials be bought off to hand him over without Putin having their heads.  He is Putin's prize and he will be protected.  There will be regular updates on how well Snowden is being treated and how humane Russia is compared to the US.

That didn't stop Carter from trying in Iran, and it's not as if there isn't stuff being done quietly; never mind that Reagan would have put an end to the mess as soon as he got to HK.  That, and terrorists do make a point to give the appearance of humanity with hostages when they really aren't - much like what Putin is trying with Snowden.  Either way, holding back on our end or putting on a Potemkin show with Snowden doesn't look good for either party.

If they can't get to Snowden, then anyone providing material support or legal counsel is fair game.  Stop only when Snowden comes back and turn it up when the complaints come in.  Since Snowden thinks its nice to go extrajudicial, it's only equitable to return the favor.


Snowden has already given out the encrypted files.  I think it's moot to bring him in. Of course, they have to save face they can't just walk away.

Anyways, Snowden will take back burner, for a few days,  as the new Bengazi revelations are debated.  Twenty-some-odd CIA operatives in Bengazi on 9/11?? CIA trying to cover up? I imagine there will be a tread in a few.
 
2013-08-01 08:39:20 PM

Oldiron_79: So wonder if he is gonna take up that red head spy chick on her offer?


i would,i mean wood!
 
2013-08-01 11:36:15 PM
img841.imageshack.us
 
2013-08-02 12:24:49 AM

FlashHarry: the hot redheaded russian spy???


Yep, that one.
 
2013-08-02 12:47:58 AM

Great Janitor: Wayne 985: Great Janitor: tical: graeth: Still don't see why people care so much.
How stupid do you have to be to believe that someone somewhere isn't monitoring or at least recording some kind of information on you.

That justifies its legality? Lets those who break the law, not criminals?

/keep hand waiving
//get out of my country

It's not surprising to know that the U.S. was spying on other nations.
It's not surprising that the U.S. was spying on suspected terrorist cells, known sympathizers in both the U.S. and in other nations
It's not surprising to know that other nations have been spying on the U.S.
It is expected to know that the U.S. government makes it their duty to spy on suspected enemies and known enemies.

What does it mean when the U.S. government is openly spying on it's own citizens?  That the U.S. government thinks of it's own citizens as potential enemies is the answer that I have a hard time avoiding.

The 9/11 attackers lived in this country for some time. It's obvious that we have enemies posing as legitimate Americans and they should be rooted out. It's not McCarthyism. We're not destroying people's lives. We're looking at phone records to save them.

They were not American citizens.  19 foreign nationals from countries that aren't exactly friendly to U.S. interests and home to terrorist cells that have attacked U.S. bases over seas would be justifiable for the U.S. to spy on them.

There is no farking reason why the U.S. government should be spying on the staff at my local McDonald's when they talk on the their cell phone.  Me, I have no criminal background, I haven't left the country since 2000, I'm an American citizen.  Spying on me is NOT going to save a single life, not going to stop any terrorist attack.  It is a waste of funds and times for the United States government to spy on me in the name of anti-terrorism, and not just me, but for 99% of the 300,000,000 American Citizens in the United States.


McVeigh, Rudolph, etc were American citizens. With the rate of Middle Eastern emigration to the United States, there are bound to be some jihadists who go for citizenship or a green card.

Frankly, I don't see how that's really all that relevant though. If people in our country are targeting Americans, I don't much care if they're citizens or residents or illegal immigrants. I want them taken out.
 
2013-08-02 04:55:31 AM
Just because you SAY he isn't a whistle blower doesn't mean he isn't. It just means you're pissed and you're going to do whatever you can to make the guy who made you look bad suffer.
 
2013-08-02 08:08:20 AM

porterm: Oldiron_79: So wonder if he is gonna take up that red head spy chick on her offer?

i would,i mean wood!


Yeah, Id wreck that so bad Gordon lightfoot would write a song about it.
 
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